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BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 03:51 PM Jun 2015

"A letter to my dismal allies on the US left"

Dear allies,
. . .

O rancid sector of the far left, please stop your grousing! Compared to you, Eeyore sounds like a Teletubby. If I gave you a pony, you would not only be furious that not everyone has a pony, but you would pick on the pony for not being radical enough until it wept big, sad, hot pony tears. Because what we're talking about here is not an analysis, a strategy, or a cosmology, but an attitude, and one that is poisoning us. Not just me, but you, us, and our possibilities.

Leftists explain things to me
The poison often emerges around electoral politics. Look, Barack Obama does bad things and I deplore them, though not with a lot of fuss, since they're hardly a surprise. He sometimes also does not-bad things, and I sometimes mention them in passing, and mentioning them does not negate the reality of the bad things. . .

One manifestation of this indiscriminate biliousness is the statement that gets aired every four years: that in presidential elections we are asked to choose the lesser of two evils. Now, this is not an analysis or an insight; it is a cliche, and a very tired one, and it often comes in the same package as the insistence that there is no difference between the candidates. You can reframe it, however, by saying: we get a choice, and not choosing at all can be tantamount in its consequences to choosing the greater of two evils. . .

Dismissiveness is a way of disengaging from both the facts on the ground and the obligations those facts bring to bear on your life. As Michael Eric Dyson recently put it, "What is not good are ideals and rhetorics that don't have the possibility of changing the condition that you analyse. Otherwise, you're engaging in a form of rhetorical narcissism and ideological self-preoccupation that has no consequence on the material conditions of actually existing poor people." . . .

There are really only two questions for activists: what do you want to achieve? And who do you want to be? And those two questions are deeply entwined. Every minute of every hour of every day you are making the world, just as you are making yourself, and you might as well do it with generosity and kindness and style.


http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/oct/15/letter-dismal-allies-us-left?CMP=share_btn_fb
216 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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"A letter to my dismal allies on the US left" (Original Post) BainsBane Jun 2015 OP
...... daleanime Jun 2015 #1
Better to read the original article BainsBane Jun 2015 #2
bookmarked daleanime Jun 2015 #4
who the hell has time to read it all by anonymous Rebecca? wordpix Jul 2015 #207
She isn't annonymous BainsBane Jul 2015 #210
Huge K&R... SidDithers Jun 2015 #3
This applies pretty widely around here. Comrade Grumpy Jun 2015 #5
So, in this nearly three year old piece... a la izquierda Jun 2015 #6
I didn't realize it was old BainsBane Jun 2015 #7
It certainly isn't any more helpful either. Nt a la izquierda Jun 2015 #12
You found this "more humorous than bitter"? JDPriestly Jun 2015 #84
I'm glad someone saw the irony. merrily Jun 2015 #87
"With generosity, kindness and style" gratuitous Jun 2015 #8
Her point is not that you shouldn't stand up for principle BainsBane Jun 2015 #11
But she neatly absolves herself of the opposite gratuitous Jun 2015 #16
That quote was from Michael Eric Dyson BainsBane Jun 2015 #20
Which she quoted with approval, and adopted as her own argument gratuitous Jun 2015 #21
Actually it's not about discussion BainsBane Jun 2015 #26
Gratuitous is right Art_from_Ark Jun 2015 #42
Sensible woodchucks told the LGBT community to STFU in 2009. Prism Jun 2015 #9
Kind of like how people today BainsBane Jun 2015 #10
This author doesn't much like the Left Prism Jun 2015 #15
I'm not so sure about that. lovemydog Jun 2015 #78
Exactly. That kind of faulty logic is what the GOP uses to say that Democrats "hate America" nt stevenleser Jun 2015 #106
+1 merrily Jun 2015 #88
The author was talking about the "cartoonish" black and white thinking R B Garr Jun 2015 #107
Who told "women and people of color to shut the fuck up"? NaturalHigh Jun 2015 #95
Yeah, I haven't seen that here. It would have been hidden had someone actually said it. polly7 Jun 2015 #98
Hidden? You sure? I've seen people tell others to f**k off, and R B Garr Jun 2015 #104
Really! That's quite a story! But, where have you seen what she stated was said? nt. polly7 Jun 2015 #113
Post removed Post removed Jun 2015 #149
What does that have to do with the claim made here? polly7 Jun 2015 #150
What are you trying to do by denying that language is used here R B Garr Jun 2015 #151
I said that her claim can't be found here. polly7 Jun 2015 #152
Post removed Post removed Jun 2015 #153
My deceased son. polly7 Jun 2015 #154
Understanble after all the stalking and harrassment she got. NaturalHigh Jun 2015 #156
Don't get drawn into this sick shit. You'll get a hide for it. nt. polly7 Jun 2015 #157
Maybe, but I don't like the bullying behavior in that thread. NaturalHigh Jun 2015 #159
The bullying I can handle, it's knowing they'll resort to the lowest thing polly7 Jun 2015 #161
Yeah, I was thinking I might have noticed if somebody said that. NaturalHigh Jun 2015 #121
It is apparently implied by typing "Go Bernie" lumberjack_jeff Jun 2015 #108
"A code that only the truly enlightened can see." NaturalHigh Jun 2015 #122
Oh, look! Another Loyalty Oath appeal! Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2015 #13
No, it is about enacting change BainsBane Jun 2015 #17
I like to vote for the candidates who best represent what I believe in. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2015 #19
Whatever. How you vote is your business. BainsBane Jun 2015 #46
That's exactly what it is. Aerows Jul 2015 #212
Thank you for the post, oh (presumed non-dismal) ally on the left. guillaumeb Jun 2015 #14
And many on the left are NOT that way all. madfloridian Jun 2015 #65
I did qualify with the word many. But perhaps the word some would guillaumeb Jun 2015 #184
This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jun 2015 #18
If you are third way, I am not your ally. PowerToThePeople Jun 2015 #22
Funny you should bring that up BainsBane Jun 2015 #23
Quoting moles probably does not help your argument. PowerToThePeople Jun 2015 #28
Perhaps you should tell that person she is a mole to her face BainsBane Jun 2015 #31
+1 n/t JustAnotherGen Jun 2015 #56
You have that completely backwards. ieoeja Jun 2015 #164
Dear Rebecca. This "rancid sector of the far left" member says I don't want to be your ally. Autumn Jun 2015 #24
Nicely written and I totally agree. a la izquierda Jun 2015 #44
^^^Brilliant! ^^^ RiverLover Jun 2015 #57
Wow. madfloridian Jun 2015 #82
Heh. Yes. nt F4lconF16 Jun 2015 #94
But why? Mnpaul Jun 2015 #96
co-signed. FlatBaroque Jun 2015 #123
+1 DirtyHippyBastard Jun 2015 #163
Eeyup. Agree with every word, Autumn! nt hifiguy Jul 2015 #214
I miss the unrec button. Scuba Jun 2015 #25
K&R She was kinda all over the board but I agree in spirit. raouldukelives Jun 2015 #27
It's a good philosophy for life actually. BainsBane Jun 2015 #32
Agree with you and g above. Love and empathy get more done. Cynicism supports the status quo. n/t freshwest Jun 2015 #36
"If we only leave the Third Wayers alone, they'll start helping us." MannyGoldstein Jun 2015 #29
Where is that quote in the article? BainsBane Jun 2015 #33
Once again, Manny, you cut through the BS hifiguy Jun 2015 #35
You're giving the OP too much credit Prism Jun 2015 #39
And that is just Standard Operational Bullshit lately. nt hifiguy Jun 2015 #47
I wouldn't say that. MannyGoldstein Jun 2015 #52
Yep, too true. n/t demmiblue Jun 2015 #129
Pompous and arrogant garbage. n/t sadoldgirl Jun 2015 #30
Good stuff. A DUer wrote something similar wyldwolf Jun 2015 #34
Europeans have a better grasp of their history. I remember one of our posters who detailed the Nazi freshwest Jun 2015 #38
Excellent piece. Tarheel_Dem Jun 2015 #37
Excellent piece-o-shit whatchamacallit Jun 2015 #54
This is reminiscent of the prequel to the death of the Sixties. OilemFirchen Jun 2015 #40
The author flails at strawmen Martin Eden Jun 2015 #41
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Jun 2015 #43
Rebecca Solnit. Love her. Starry Messenger Jun 2015 #45
She uses the words "rancid" "radical" "dismal" to refer to the left and liberals. madfloridian Jun 2015 #48
I work in CA left-wing activist circles, as does she Starry Messenger Jun 2015 #51
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Jun 2015 #60
It is like the Left's version of Anne Coulter. Hiraeth Jun 2015 #117
Mask...off. nt Romulox Jun 2015 #115
Yours? I agree. Starry Messenger Jun 2015 #119
No. Yours. FlatBaroque Jun 2015 #124
Bless your heart. Starry Messenger Jun 2015 #126
Jeebus...the long knives came out quick.....nt msanthrope Jun 2015 #180
Eh, I rate this at two and a half red stars. Starry Messenger Jun 2015 #182
I think you just described the Eyore wing of the farthest Left perfectly...... msanthrope Jul 2015 #197
I was just noticing that the left's rhetoric has shifted away from "there is no difference" to... aikoaiko Jun 2015 #49
I see a lot of "there is no difference" BainsBane Jun 2015 #50
Another simpleminded tool blathers on about "leftists"... whatchamacallit Jun 2015 #53
She is a leftist activist BainsBane Jun 2015 #72
I read it and wish I hadn't n/t whatchamacallit Jun 2015 #103
Anyone who insults the left in this way is no ally of mine Bjorn Against Jun 2015 #55
Agreed. madfloridian Jun 2015 #64
The author is a leftist activist BainsBane Jun 2015 #69
A plea? F4lconF16 Jun 2015 #99
^ Recommended, I read the article, I agree 100% with your assessment^ Autumn Jun 2015 #102
Your post should be an OP BrotherIvan Jun 2015 #167
I will. F4lconF16 Jul 2015 #189
Let me know when you do BrotherIvan Jul 2015 #190
What I believe in is not and has never been what the Democratic Party platform has been based on. F4lconF16 Jul 2015 #191
I think you are saying what a lot of us feel BrotherIvan Jul 2015 #199
I have a feeling within 20 years or so you'll be seeing some new politics here, too. ;) F4lconF16 Jul 2015 #205
You smacked that one Aerows Jul 2015 #208
Thanks, Aerows. F4lconF16 Jul 2015 #209
It is excellent Aerows Jul 2015 #213
Well her article is a nasty critique itself Bjorn Against Jun 2015 #100
Old but relevant JustAnotherGen Jun 2015 #58
"generosity and kindness and style" -- these are qualities I've always thought betsuni Jun 2015 #59
Wow seems much of the party folks are dead serious about the "rancid" left. madfloridian Jun 2015 #61
You obviously missed the point entirely BainsBane Jun 2015 #68
I know who she is. I have read many of her works. That one was done in anger.... madfloridian Jun 2015 #73
No, it's about people who dismiss the results of activism BainsBane Jun 2015 #74
Most liberals I know work to make the "world a better place." madfloridian Jun 2015 #75
She isn't discussing liberals BainsBane Jun 2015 #76
They fear us because we vote in such high numbers in elections. Rex Jun 2015 #71
Generosity, kindness and style reminded me of this. betsuni Jun 2015 #92
Did any of you think you might someday want those "dismal" "rancid" liberals as allies? madfloridian Jun 2015 #62
Yes, because as the brilliant Michael Eric Dyson says: lovemydog Jun 2015 #63
This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jun 2015 #66
They don't like us, we are the group that votes for the POTUS 80 - 90% of the time. Rex Jun 2015 #70
Jury results. edbermac Jun 2015 #67
Boy, that was one UPSET alerter Number23 Jun 2015 #77
How condescending. "the poor darling" madfloridian Jun 2015 #83
It's not an attack on me. And it's not an attack on anyone that can clearly read and understand Number23 Jun 2015 #85
Read this paragraph again...let the ugliness sink in. madfloridian Jun 2015 #89
I can read it 100 times and still not feel attacked. But then I'm not really trying to either. Number23 Jun 2015 #91
I'm surprised anyone thinks this is an attack on the entire left. betsuni Jun 2015 #90
Do you think any portion of the Left should be attacked like this? madfloridian Jun 2015 #116
Tell that to Glenn Greenwald, Nader, Cornell West, Tavis Smiley, Jane Hamsher, AND... stevenleser Jun 2015 #148
There are bad things and they are bad. There are good things and they are good joshcryer Jun 2015 #79
This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jun 2015 #81
Defending this paragraph... madfloridian Jun 2015 #80
.....! KoKo Jun 2015 #111
Lesser of two evils makes the point JonLP24 Jun 2015 #86
Condescending bullshit, F4lconF16 Jun 2015 #93
You have to reach back to 2012 for hippie-punching material? marmar Jun 2015 #97
if, hypethetically, the party became corrupt, this attitude HFRN Jun 2015 #101
Yes, hypothetically. kath Jun 2015 #145
She must read DU. Perfect description. nt sufrommich Jun 2015 #105
Good read. Interesting to see an activist on the left atacked like this here. NCTraveler Jun 2015 #109
There's that "purity" stuff again. madfloridian Jun 2015 #120
Please read all of the replies. NCTraveler Jun 2015 #125
"to try and malign a good and active progressive" madfloridian Jun 2015 #127
"Works both ways. " NCTraveler Jun 2015 #128
Demanding inaction = "activist" lumberjack_jeff Jun 2015 #130
I understand she doesn't rise to your level of activism... NCTraveler Jun 2015 #131
"Shut up, you pony-wanting hippies!" is action of a sort, I suppose. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2015 #133
Then you are commenting about a person you know nothing about. NCTraveler Jun 2015 #134
I don't know her personally. But she's an archetype of a type of "liberal" I run into all too often. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2015 #136
We just got to the bottom of it. Thanks. nt. NCTraveler Jun 2015 #138
It's so disgusting to see the same party sycophants Marr Jun 2015 #110
^^This!^^ BrotherIvan Jun 2015 #168
The Very Sensible People taking a victory lap over the same-sex marriage decision.. frylock Jun 2015 #175
+1 an entire shit load. Enthusiast Jul 2015 #198
"Dismissiveness is a way of disengaging," says the oblivious author. n/t Orsino Jun 2015 #112
^^^this^^^ progressoid Jun 2015 #118
what a pompous gasbag. nt m-lekktor Jun 2015 #114
Am I the only DUer who remembers, LWolf Jun 2015 #132
No, it is not attacking the entire left BainsBane Jun 2015 #135
Or it's simply re-defining LWolf Jun 2015 #137
Let me understand this BainsBane Jun 2015 #140
So you say these ugly words are okay against "some" activists? madfloridian Jun 2015 #139
Piece of shit used car salesman BainsBane Jun 2015 #141
Whoa, never mind. madfloridian Jun 2015 #142
I take that as a clear acknowledgement BainsBane Jun 2015 #143
No, I take it that you're hurting and angry. madfloridian Jun 2015 #144
Your objection to this OP was that it is hurtful BainsBane Jun 2015 #178
What ARE you talking about? Where are you getting all that. madfloridian Jun 2015 #183
Hey Bains-- ismnotwasm Jun 2015 #146
Agreed. Sheldon Cooper Jun 2015 #158
+1 Starry Messenger Jun 2015 #160
"Butt hurt?" City Lights Jun 2015 #170
No shit BainsBane Jun 2015 #181
Thanks, Ism BainsBane Jun 2015 #179
+1... SidDithers Jul 2015 #202
Here's a difference. Marr Jun 2015 #165
Spot on. polly7 Jun 2015 #166
Well said! nt City Lights Jun 2015 #171
WTF are you talking about? BainsBane Jun 2015 #174
Ah some condescending grade A bullshit nadinbrzezinski Jun 2015 #147
... SidDithers Jul 2015 #203
I am glad that amuses you nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #211
Answer to the letter writer: sadoldgirl Jun 2015 #155
We pretty much did just this for the 2014 cycle Man from Pickens Jun 2015 #162
I love it when conservatives out themselves on DU BrotherIvan Jun 2015 #169
This article is some kind of Rorschach test. betsuni Jun 2015 #172
And a reading comprehension test. betsuni Jun 2015 #188
I know, right? nt BainsBane Jul 2015 #204
I found this to be humorously hypocritical. bvar22 Jun 2015 #173
She is on the left BainsBane Jun 2015 #177
This is driving me nuts. SECTOR SECTOR SECTOR SECTOR. Right smack at the top of the article. betsuni Jun 2015 #187
OMFG. Phlem Jun 2015 #176
who on earth is this person? MisterP Jun 2015 #185
Rebecca Solnit BainsBane Jul 2015 #201
Does anyone here think Democrats are not liberal? Some may be moderate liberals and some are Thinkingabout Jun 2015 #186
Ponies? Do you *really* want to bring up Ponies at this particular moment? Fumesucker Jul 2015 #192
"looked to be an impossible dream in 2012" joshcryer Jul 2015 #193
I've been pro gay marriage ever since I was aware it was an issue Fumesucker Jul 2015 #194
So have I, but I still supported Dean. joshcryer Jul 2015 #195
"It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." Fumesucker Jul 2015 #196
"Compared to you, Eeyore sounds like a Teletubby."... SidDithers Jul 2015 #200
who is this "Rebecca?" She can't bother to sign her last name? wordpix Jul 2015 #206
She did sign her last name BainsBane Jul 2015 #216
Kick. nt Bonobo Jul 2015 #215

wordpix

(18,652 posts)
207. who the hell has time to read it all by anonymous Rebecca?
Wed Jul 1, 2015, 02:41 PM
Jul 2015

I was bored with the first sentences I read.

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
210. She isn't annonymous
Wed Jul 1, 2015, 03:27 PM
Jul 2015

and the point isn't to entertain you. No one is forcing you to read anything, or even reply, but you chose to do that without any understanding of the article. That you had time for.


Rebecca Solnit

Activism
Solnit has worked on environmental and human rights campaigns since the 1980s, notably with the Western Shoshone Defense Project in the early 1990s, as described in her book Savage Dreams, and with antiwar activists throughout the Bush era. She has discussed her interest in climate change and the work of 350.org and the Sierra Club, and in women's rights, especially violence against women.

Writing
Her writing has appeared in numerous publications in print and online, including Harper's Magazine and Tom Engelhardt's website Tomdispatch.com.

Solnit is the author of thirteen books as well as essays in numerous museum catalogs and anthologies. Her 2009 book A Paradise Built in Hell: The Extraordinary Communities that Arise in Disaster began as an essay called "The Uses of Disaster: Notes on Bad Weather and Good Government" published by Harper’s magazine the day that Hurricane Katrina hit the Gulf coast. It was partially inspired by the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake, which Solnit described as "a remarkable occasion...a moment when everyday life ground to a halt and people looked around and hunkered down". In a conversation with filmmaker Astra Taylor for BOMB magazine, Solnit summarized the radical theme of A Paradise Built in Hell: "What happens in disasters demonstrates everything an anarchist ever wanted to believe about the triumph of civil society and the failure of institutional authority."

Awards and recognition
Solnit has received two NEA fellowships for Literature, a Guggenheim Fellowship, a Lannan literary fellowship, and a 2004 Wired Rave Award for writing on the effects of technology on the arts and humanities. In 2010 Utne Reader magazine named Solnit as one of the "25 Visionaries Who Are Changing Your World". Her The Faraway Nearby (2013) was nominated for a National Book Award, and shortlisted for the 2013 National Book Critics Circle Award.

For River of Shadows, Solnit was honored with the 2004 National Book Critics Circle Award in Criticism and the 2004 Sally Hacker Prize from the Society for the History of Technology, which honors exceptional scholarship that reaches beyond the academy toward a broad audience. Solnit was also awarded Harvard's Mark Lynton History Prize in 2004 for River of Shadows.

Solnit credits Eduardo Galeano, Pablo Neruda, Ariel Dorfman, Elena Poniatowska, Gabriel García Márquez, and Virginia Woolf as writers who have influenced her work


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebecca_Solnit
"Women's rights are human rights, and human rights are

a la izquierda

(11,791 posts)
6. So, in this nearly three year old piece...
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 04:00 PM
Jun 2015

Leftists are told not to be bitter and divisive by someone who writes with a tone that is...bitter and divisive.

Got it.

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
7. I didn't realize it was old
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 04:02 PM
Jun 2015

Someone just posted it on my FB feed. I assumed it was new. It certainly isn't any less relevant today.
I found the tone more humorous than bitter.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
84. You found this "more humorous than bitter"?
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 02:53 AM
Jun 2015

"O rancid sector of the far left, please stop your grousing! Compared to you, Eeyore sounds like a Teletubby. . . . "

I find that condescending and childish.

If someone on DU wrote to Hillary supporters, "O rancid sector of the right, please stop your grousing! Compared to you, Eeyore sounds like a Teletubby," . . . . what would you respond?

That little bit of a condescending, childish, insulting address is specifically intended to make any reader who disagrees with the author of the article irritated. It is written specifically to elicit an angry response. It is a very personal insult as it refers to part of the Democratic Party as a "rancid sector." Then it compares the person being addressed to characters from children's literature and children's TV. It's pretty much aimed to rile people up. I used to write in my job -- raising money, doing various things. The author of that article was being nasty on purpose.

What kind of response were you hoping to get by posting it here?

A lot of Hillary supporters complain about the tone of the discussion set by Bernie supporters. I think this OP pretty much sets a very low bar for discussion here for the future.

Might be nice if you removed the OP. It doesn't help to make DU more civil.

Thanks in advance. Remember if a Bernie supporter posted something equally insulting to Hillary supporters, don't you think that Hillary supporters would ask the DUer to remove it?

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
8. "With generosity, kindness and style"
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 04:03 PM
Jun 2015

Fuck you if I'm insufficiently generous, kind or stylish for your tastes in standing up for constitutional principles. But thank you ever so much, Rebecca, for your expression of concern.

What a load of sanctimonious hooey.

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
11. Her point is not that you shouldn't stand up for principle
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 04:07 PM
Jun 2015

but that say, if someone talks about how great it is that marriage equality is now the law of the land, people don't come in and yell about some unrelated issue.

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
16. But she neatly absolves herself of the opposite
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 04:16 PM
Jun 2015

That is, she notices some of the "bad things" and suitably deplores them (allegedly, facts not in evidence), she dismisses those same bad things because "they're hardly a surprise." Apparently it's all right for her to be dismissive and not make a lot of fuss over the unnamed "bad things," but being insufficiently celebratory (in her sole judgment) of the good things makes one a rhetorical narcissist - whatever that means coming from this font of narcissism.

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
21. Which she quoted with approval, and adopted as her own argument
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 04:30 PM
Jun 2015

I have no idea why this person put together this incredibly long "letter" two years ago, but I've heard it all before and still reject it. It's self-serving pap designed to stifle discussion - because it's not the "right" time (it never is), or we should be discussing something else of my choosing (which that person has deemed so encompassingly important as to preclude all other discussion).

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
26. Actually it's not about discussion
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 05:01 PM
Jun 2015

It's about getting things done, improving the lives of real people.

 

Prism

(5,815 posts)
9. Sensible woodchucks told the LGBT community to STFU in 2009.
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 04:03 PM
Jun 2015

We were so bitter and divisive and unhappy, harshing on everyone's sensible centrist mellow.

We didn't listen.

Kind of glad we didn't, to be honest.

You're either with us, or we will make sure it is unpleasant for you to not be.

Either way, the people who agree with that column aren't in for a good time.

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
10. Kind of like how people today
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 04:05 PM
Jun 2015

tell women and people of color to shut the fuck up. Only that isn't what the author is saying. That falls to a different crowd that I certainly would not characterize as left.

The article in fact talks about Harvey Milk's engagement. An example of what she means would be responding to a discussion about the success of marriage equality to talk about drones.

 

Prism

(5,815 posts)
15. This author doesn't much like the Left
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 04:10 PM
Jun 2015

Clearly. Yet, you posted it approvingly.

I'm not too worried about what you consider the Left. Or your opinion of them.

The Left is the segment of our political class that is fighting tooth and nail for women's reproductive freedom and social justice.

Maybe we're working with different definitions.

Sometimes, people get to thinking, "People who disagree with me are the radical Left!" and then I can kind of see the error in logic.

lovemydog

(11,833 posts)
78. I'm not so sure about that.
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 02:23 AM
Jun 2015

I love the left. Enough to want to improve it and make it better, so I can love it more. And most important, so that we can be a truly powerful force that can affect positive change for generations in the future.

R B Garr

(16,950 posts)
107. The author was talking about the "cartoonish" black and white thinking
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 09:32 AM
Jun 2015

that denies reality. There was no mention of not liking the left, but about developing an understanding that transcends petty politics and petty thinking.

From the article:
"It means developing a more complex understanding of the matters under consideration than the cartoonish black and white that both left and the right tend to fall back on."

R B Garr

(16,950 posts)
104. Hidden? You sure? I've seen people tell others to f**k off, and
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 09:05 AM
Jun 2015

it wasn't hidden. In fact, the 'f**k off' was high-fived by some on that very thread for having gotten away with it after the jury results were posted.

Response to polly7 (Reply #113)

polly7

(20,582 posts)
150. What does that have to do with the claim made here?
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 02:14 PM
Jun 2015
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6921818

What are you trying to do, draw me into another of your personal hate-fest drama fuck ups? (Don't forget this, you little angel, you http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2521178 )

Post the link to the claim she made or .... !!!

Drama, drama, drama!

R B Garr

(16,950 posts)
151. What are you trying to do by denying that language is used here
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 02:18 PM
Jun 2015

that is inappropriate. You claimed everything is hidden. It's clearly not hidden. You know that firsthand. So why the bullshit again with this poster? Your vendettas are a tired personal hate-fest drama fuck-ups of your own doing. You're not fooling anyone anymore with your feigned confusion. So fucking lame.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
152. I said that her claim can't be found here.
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 02:20 PM
Jun 2015

You're the one that started in with the bad language being used on completely different threads - yours wasn't hidden either, btw ..... (what did that have to do with her claim of words that were never said, or what I said about it?) and now you're creating your own little daily drama hit over what you brought up?!?

Weird.

Response to polly7 (Reply #150)

polly7

(20,582 posts)
154. My deceased son.
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 02:29 PM
Jun 2015

How fucking dare you.

I self-deleted the thread, it didn't get locked - because I knew there were assholes like you who would use it post the ugliest things you possibly could in your long planned attempts to get me out of here. You're sick - just as sick as the poster who laughed when I mentioned my son.

Laughing at someone who's lost a child and posted of it, with pictures, is is the lowest thing I've seen anywhere, you've really outdone yourself.

You've been stalking me for months - guess what, you're a nothing - a disgusting nothing on a message board.

NaturalHigh

(12,778 posts)
159. Maybe, but I don't like the bullying behavior in that thread.
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 03:09 PM
Jun 2015

I know what it's like to get ganged up on by a certain faction.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
161. The bullying I can handle, it's knowing they'll resort to the lowest thing
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 03:14 PM
Jun 2015

possible and even laugh over it that makes my stomach sick. I can't believe how despicable some can be, but then I remember it's a message board - people feel free to say the most hateful and hurtful things knowing they'll never have to look someone in the face while doing it. I thought only Cavers laughed at loss, I was wrong.

NaturalHigh

(12,778 posts)
121. Yeah, I was thinking I might have noticed if somebody said that.
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 12:15 PM
Jun 2015

Nothing like imaginary grievances to keep the fires stoked.

NaturalHigh

(12,778 posts)
122. "A code that only the truly enlightened can see."
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 12:16 PM
Jun 2015

I guess I'm not in the "enlightened class" because I haven't seen it anywhere.

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
17. No, it is about enacting change
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 04:17 PM
Jun 2015

getting things done, rather than dismissing anyone who tries. It has nothing to do with loyalty oaths. The final message should be clear:



There are really only two questions for activists: what do you want to achieve? And who do you want to be? And those two questions are deeply entwined.


The message is directed at activists and those who wish to participate in making society a better place.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
19. I like to vote for the candidates who best represent what I believe in.
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 04:22 PM
Jun 2015

Not the ones who, at best, only play lip service to principles and then vote with the Republicans.

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
46. Whatever. How you vote is your business.
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 07:31 PM
Jun 2015

And that is not the point of the article.

You seem to think everyone is engaged in efforts to make you vote for Democrats. I didn't post this for your benefit, but I do not think it unreasonable for me to assume I'm posting for a Democratic audience, given the name of the site and the terms of service that specify membership is for people who support Democrats. If it doesn't apply to you, ignore it.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
14. Thank you for the post, oh (presumed non-dismal) ally on the left.
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 04:08 PM
Jun 2015

Also from the post, and in my opinion, a key point:

"Believe me, a lot of us already know most of the dimples on the imperial derriere by now, and there are other things worth discussing. Often, it's not the emperor that's the important news anyway, but the peasants in their revolts and even their triumphs, while this mindset I'm trying to describe remains locked on the emperor, in fury and maybe in self-affirmation."

My take:
Some on the left have made this point before, and it must be made often. "Leaders" rarely lead. Generally they see which way the parade is marching and scramble to get in front of the parade.

Many on the left prefer to criticize everyone who runs for office as not progressive or perfect enough on every single issue. If any on the left are waiting for that perfect candidate who meets all of your needs, fulfills all your needs, and agrees with you on every issue stop waiting and join reality.

I voted for Barack Obama in 2008, and again in 2012. I voted for him in 2008, not expecting or hoping that he would be the liberal savior, but because he articulated a good vision for the future of the US. Also, because the McCain/Palin ticket represented the insane wing of the GOP.

I voted for Barack Obama in 2012. He had already declined to prosecute the Bush cabal, as well as allowing the bankers who nearly ruined the economy to go unpunished. NOT what I would have done, but I still believed that he was a better alternative than Willard Romney.

And I was rewarded with Elena Kagan and Sonia Sotomayor. And as the two decisions on the ACA and marriage equality just demonstrated, electing Obama vs. McCain or Romney was a very good thing for this country.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
65. And many on the left are NOT that way all.
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 01:01 AM
Jun 2015

Is it worth it to keep on marginalizing a very large segment of the party.

Your quote:

Many on the left prefer to criticize everyone who runs for office as not progressive or perfect enough on every single issue. If any on the left are waiting for that perfect candidate who meets all of your needs, fulfills all your needs, and agrees with you on every issue stop waiting and join reality.


Some of us don't, but we get lumped in together.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
184. I did qualify with the word many. But perhaps the word some would
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 09:30 PM
Jun 2015

have been better. As to "lumped together", I prefer to judge based on what individuals say, but if there are enough of the "I will not vote for....." posts I will admit to assuming that those who post that type of comment DO fall in the category that I described.

Response to BainsBane (Original post)

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
23. Funny you should bring that up
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 04:53 PM
Jun 2015

because someone recently came in the AA group to tell members that Sanders couldn't discuss issues pertaining to people of color because he would alienate the racist, white vote (Republican) that member insisted was crucial to the election. It's not the first time I've seen that comment. I've also seen threads celebrating Sanders appeal with Republican voters. So a Democrat you consider "Third Way"-- a term which here seems to mean failure to despise Hillary Clinton or has the audacity to care about the rights and concerns of women, people of color, LGBT Americans--is worse than being racist Republican?

 

PowerToThePeople

(9,610 posts)
28. Quoting moles probably does not help your argument.
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 05:33 PM
Jun 2015

And do not say they do not exist, I assure you there are quite a few of them, trying to fing homes in both the HRC and Sanders camp.

Funny you should bring that up because someone recently came in the AA group to tell members that Sanders couldn't discuss issues pertaining to people of color because he would alienate the racist, white vote (Republican) that member insisted was crucial to the election. It's not the first time I've seen that comment.


This comment reeks of mole. This should be plainly obvious imo.

As for his appeal to republican voters over verbalizing and educating them on the damage that Reganomics have done to them over the years? I see this as positive. Maybe he can open their eyes to who is truly against them, that it is the Republican's not "those brown people with non-european heritage."

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
31. Perhaps you should tell that person she is a mole to her face
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 06:03 PM
Jun 2015

Her thread is still in AA, and she is an active member of the BS group.

So Reagan supporters are cool, but not Clinton supporters?

 

ieoeja

(9,748 posts)
164. You have that completely backwards.
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 03:50 PM
Jun 2015

Pre-DLC racists sometimes voted for Democrats who supported minority rights because Democrats represented their economic interests. Racists were willing to cede the ground on minority rights as long as their pocket books were looked after.

Post-DLC racists sometimes vote for Democrats who oppose their economic interests because they are moderate on minority rights. DLC/Third-Way Democrats are willing to cede the ground on minority rights as long as their pocket books are looked after.

Women's rights have eroded greatly during the DLC era. And that is not a coincidence. Regardless of their intent, the result of DLC/Third-Way politics has been an erosion of minority rights. It is DLC/Third-Way Democrats who want to "triangulate" on everything, including minority rights. Regardless of what she might say or do otherwise, the DLC had no compunction about supporting candidates willing to compromise on minority rights when Hillary was the DLC president.

And Bernie opposed the DLC/Third-Way every step of the way.

Them's the facts, Jack.

Autumn

(45,057 posts)
24. Dear Rebecca. This "rancid sector of the far left" member says I don't want to be your ally.
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 04:53 PM
Jun 2015

Thanks but I'll pass on your bitterness and negativity Rebecca, your letter was just as dismissive about the concerns of millions of Americans as most of our elected politician are. Kudos to you for capturing their essence perfectly.

Sincerely yours,

proud member of the rancid sector of the far left who had had enough of the bullshit Presidential electoral politics that are as riddled with corporate money and lobbyists as a long-dead dog with maggots.

PS I thought your Presidential electoral politics that are as as riddled with corporate money and lobbyists as a long-dead dog with maggots was a positively great phrase and a perfect description of the candidates running this time here in the US for President with the exception of Bernie Sanders. Read up on him and get back to me, you'll find he's not in that 'maggoty' class.

PPS Guess what you can do with the pony you are so condescendingly offering me?

a la izquierda

(11,791 posts)
44. Nicely written and I totally agree.
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 07:23 PM
Jun 2015

I was sort of puzzled as to why this was making the rounds yet again on Facebook and had some healthy debates with colleagues about it.

raouldukelives

(5,178 posts)
27. K&R She was kinda all over the board but I agree in spirit.
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 05:07 PM
Jun 2015

There are internal arguments that we as political beasts are destined to have. There is no reason to be as uncivil as some are when discussing them.

"There are really only two questions for activists: what do you want to achieve? And who do you want to be? And those two questions are deeply entwined. Every minute of every hour of every day you are making the world, just as you are making yourself, and you might as well do it with generosity and kindness and style."

That is the real root of everything. What we work for every minute of every day. Is it bringing hope to others, is it bringing support or is bringing hardship?

Every minute a new chance to support and fund more of the same or to start to make a difference with ones life.

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
29. "If we only leave the Third Wayers alone, they'll start helping us."
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 05:59 PM
Jun 2015

All Larry Summers needs is one more crack at us without any meddling moonbats.

LOL.

On second thought... not funny.

Let's replace the Third Wayers rather than apologizing to them.

 

Prism

(5,815 posts)
39. You're giving the OP too much credit
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 07:01 PM
Jun 2015

Let's distill it further.

"I want to start a fight on DU and wallow in the drama!"

It's a simpler explanation.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
38. Europeans have a better grasp of their history. I remember one of our posters who detailed the Nazi
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 06:49 PM
Jun 2015
rise to power. Scandinavians said it was the failure of the Communists, Socialists, Unions etc. to keep their coalition together.

Unable to work out their differences for the greater good, they failed to form a working government in their system. Thus the Nazi party formed the government.

He wrote he feared the same for the USA if moderates, conservatives and leftists don't combine under the rubric of one party to oppose the GOP. Since the writer is in Europe, she has more than likely been taught this harsh lesson, too.

They see us as acting childish and not understanding just how bad things could become. IDK if it's the real case, but it made me think the Third Reich was not inevitable. It was a failure in the political sphere that led to all that horror.

At times, I wonder if the theory of parallel universes is true, and there is a world in which the same choices were available and people chose to be less arrogant and judging and Hitler gave up his ideas after failing to get a majority in the German political establishment, instead of becoming a leader.

Imagine where people live with open mindedness, fairness and compassion and never felt such terror that they invented and used the A-Bomb.

Tarheel_Dem

(31,233 posts)
37. Excellent piece.
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 06:37 PM
Jun 2015


"Can you imagine how far the civil rights movement would have gotten, had it been run entirely by complainers for whom nothing was ever good enough? To hell with integrating the Montgomery public transit system when the problem was so much larger!"


Meanwhile, they tend to claim that any forward movement was because they were the "complainers". It's a bullshit argument, and everyone knows it's a bullshit argument, and I thank this writer for daring to point it out. The term "activist" has become one of those throw away words that anyone can claim nowadays.

OilemFirchen

(7,143 posts)
40. This is reminiscent of the prequel to the death of the Sixties.
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 07:01 PM
Jun 2015

Ultimately (though rather simplistically), the movement leaders squared off in the early 70s - with those who felt change could only be affected from within the system at war with the bomb-throwers who believed that change could only emanate counter-culturally.

History shows that the revolutionaries-cum-reactionaries failed to prevail. On the one hand, you have Tom Hayden - who accomplished progress through legislation - versus a panoply of utter failures, from Abbie Hoffman, reduced to selling coke on the street, to Eldrige Cleaver, who became a religious, conservative Republican, and ultimately to the many minor figures who escaped to the Pacific Northwest and became libertarian loons. Or right-wing whackjobs (see David Horowitz).

Only those who (perhaps belatedly), found their niche in organized society (i.e., Bernardine Dohrn and Bill Ayers) had a positive impact on progressive change. The rest are footnotes and their epitaphs are unseemly.

Bombast and anger seemed fun at the time but were ultimately counterproductive. The same rings true today.

Martin Eden

(12,863 posts)
41. The author flails at strawmen
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 07:06 PM
Jun 2015

For every pet peeve Rebecca Solnit mentions there is no doubt some member of the "far left" she encountered who fit that part of the narrative, but the "dismal allies" she builds up in her piece is ultimately made of straw. There might be someone who fits every part of that narrative, but I kinda doubt it.

I consider myself a member of the Far Left who is fed up with corporate Dems and party loyalty taken for granted, but I would never say there is no difference between the parties or encourage people not to vote for the Democratic presidential candidate in a battleground state. The author complains about complaints brought up when some positive accomplishment is mentioned, but context is everything. Was the conversation really about a specific issue or was it in the context of the merits of a politician who is a very mixed bag?

I'm all for setting realistic goals that can be achieved, but too often have we been scolded to be happy with bread crumbs when the loaf is being unfairly hoarded. First principles are to state what is right and just, then chart a logical course to get there. Very little progress will be made by silently accepting wrong directions.

Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
45. Rebecca Solnit. Love her.
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 07:26 PM
Jun 2015

I follow her facebook feed, and the conversations on those threads are always high quality.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
48. She uses the words "rancid" "radical" "dismal" to refer to the left and liberals.
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 07:33 PM
Jun 2015

I have read some of her work, but this seems overboard. Rather surprised.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
51. I work in CA left-wing activist circles, as does she
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 07:55 PM
Jun 2015

She is not addressing the entire left and liberals. It's a specific sector of people who are very reductive. These paragraphs describe the attitudes she is referring to, which are types of people I have encountered as well:

"The same has been true of other politicians: the recent governor of my state, Arnold Schwarzenegger, was in some respects quite good on climate change. Yet it was impossible for me to say so to a radical without receiving an earful about all the other ways in which Schwarzenegger was terrible, as if the speaker had a news scoop, as if he or she thought I had been living under a rock, as if the presence of bad things made the existence of good ones irrelevant. As a result, it was impossible to discuss what Schwarzenegger was doing on climate change (and unnecessary for my interlocutors to know about it, no less figure out how to use it).

So here I want to lay out an insanely obvious principle that apparently needs clarification. There are bad things and they are bad. There are good things and they are good, even though the bad things are bad. The mentioning of something good does not require the automatic assertion of a bad thing. The good thing might be an interesting avenue to pursue in itself if you want to get anywhere. In that context, the bad thing has all the safety of a dead end. And yes, much in the realm of electoral politics is hideous, but since it also shapes quite a bit of the world, if you want to be political or even informed you have to pay attention to it and maybe even work with it.

Instead, I constantly encounter a response that presumes the job at hand is to figure out what's wrong, even when dealing with an actual victory, or a constructive development. Recently, I mentioned that California's current attorney general, Kamala Harris, is anti-death penalty and also acting in good ways to defend people against foreclosure. A snarky Berkeley professor's immediate response began: "Excuse me, she's anti-death penalty, but let the record show that her office condoned the illegal purchase of lethal injection drugs."

Apparently, we are not allowed to celebrate the fact that the attorney general for 12% of all Americans is pretty cool in a few key ways or figure out where that could take us. My respondent was attempting to crush my ebullience and wither the discussion, and what purpose exactly does that serve?"

Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #51)

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
182. Eh, I rate this at two and a half red stars.
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 08:49 PM
Jun 2015

I am in several left wing FB groups, and it gets dirty with accusations of being a liberal and capitalist pig pretty fast. It's usually from young white males who think they invented being oppressed.

One told me three years ago that he knew the revolution was at hand in Oklahoma because of the enthusiastic response to his anti-capitalist poetry at a coffee house poetry slam. I think he called me a deluded reformist for gently suggesting he might be over-estimating a tad.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
197. I think you just described the Eyore wing of the farthest Left perfectly......
Wed Jul 1, 2015, 07:05 AM
Jul 2015

I am in several left wing FB groups, and it gets dirty with accusations of being a liberal and capitalist pig pretty fast. It's usually from young white males who think they invented being oppressed. 


aikoaiko

(34,169 posts)
49. I was just noticing that the left's rhetoric has shifted away from "there is no difference" to...
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 07:40 PM
Jun 2015

..."we can do much better." And it appears to be working.

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
50. I see a lot of "there is no difference"
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 07:55 PM
Jun 2015

when it comes to "what really matters" comments. What really matters doesn't include the well-being and basic rights of the majority of the population, however.

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
72. She is a leftist activist
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 01:43 AM
Jun 2015

for environmental causes, LGBT issues, women's issues. It is a critique of some on the left, but not the left itself. I don't know why people refuse to read the article.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
64. Agreed.
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 12:22 AM
Jun 2015

Sick and tired of it. Spent the whole 2004 primary being called names.

Not gonna take it anymore.

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
69. The author is a leftist activist
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 01:37 AM
Jun 2015

It is a critique of certain approaches to politics. It is not an insult of leftism but a plea to those who prefer to engage in critique than work to make the world a better place.

F4lconF16

(3,747 posts)
99. A plea?
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 07:31 AM
Jun 2015

That was a vicious, desperate attack. And don't you dare tell me I'm not working to make the world a better place. This is probably going to be hidden anyways, so let me just say: fuck every notion contained in that disgusting article. That was one of the most pathetic and transparent all out attacks on the left I have read in quite a while. What the fuck, Bains. That was an attack on so many people here. (And jurors, go read the dang thing before you vote to hide--it was a hit piece).

I think you may have just nailed it for me. This is exactly what I have to expect when I work with the establishment. This is what happens, every damn time. Every year for centuries the people--the real, vast, multitudes of people, not the lies in our history books--have continued to be thrown bones and spat upon. We are worn down and fought in every aspect of our lives.

We talk of supreme court decisions and we are celebratory when they are on our side. It truly is a thing to celebrate, too, for the rights won have been hard-fought, and are yet another re-affirmation of our humanity. But we refuse to recognize that we live in a society where 9 nakedly partisan "judges", put into place for life by a collection of corrupt legislators explicitly influenced by the enormous amounts of wealth and power moving about, and basing their decisions on a document drawn by the extremely wealthy elite of the colonial era (pretending it has any relevance at all--seriously, any document with slavery encoded in it isn't worth toilet paper to me in 2015) determine who gets apportioned what rights, and when, and how. They can take things away just as easily as they give them. What a bunch of crap.

I decide. We decide. We seek to understand, and we love. What would people have said if Kennedy voted the other way? I am done with the whole thing. We shouldn't be "granting" people their rights. We should be living in a world that in every way emphasizes our humanity. And we don't. This isn't even going into everything else that's wrong with this world. It's upside-down, and it's hurting people. One hell of a lot of people, right fucking now. They can't wait. None of us can really wait. I've only got one life, one chance to experience the wonder that is my perspective in the universe. It's not bad yet, but it could be quite easily.

This article was it. What a bunch of sanctimonious bullshit. Meanwhile, your candidate couldn't get it right until 2013 on an issue that she damn well knew about. I didn't realize being gay was a thing until I was in the 5th grade or somewhere around there from a book about zoo penguins, but it wasn't that hard for me to figure out. That was close to a decade before Clinton. Nor for my numerous conservative-christian-raised friends. It's pathetic. It's really pathetic. It's complete bile from the most powerful of the powerful, and you have given up, given in, and now you're selling us out in a truly disgusting manner. Thanks, though, you've given me the kick I needed. As you are always so keen to tell us, this is just a website. But that article was a surprisingly honest moment from the establishment, and it's convinced me.

I don't know what the solution is. It's going to need to be a coalition of the left, a true commitment to a total overhaul of the way we build our society, a revolution in every part of our lives. It's going to be a mixture of a departure from capitalism, of an opening in hearts to all things and perspectives. I have no idea if it's even possible to do. I think it could be, though. The right time, the right place, the right technology, the right people. But it will never happen without the whole of us deciding to truly change our world, and enter a new era, and I am committing to that, now. I have been, and I will continue to be.

And by the way, I may not really know how to fix it, but at least I'm willing to admit I don't know shit about the world. You don't see from nearly as many perspectives as you think you do.

Edit post: and yeah, I actually read the stupid article before you attack me for it. I don't need allies like that.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
167. Your post should be an OP
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 05:02 PM
Jun 2015

Genuine, passionate and true. I too have been pushed further left by the disdain and scorn on establishment supporters. They only feign being an ally as it suits their agenda. Fuck that. No rich, entrenched powerful pol or wealthy scion ever did anything for the working class until they were forced to. Until those dirty, hungry, oppressed people, embracing the principles of the LEFT got together and MADE THEM DO IT.

Please consider posting it. We need to be very clear that this kind of shite should not stand.

F4lconF16

(3,747 posts)
189. I will.
Wed Jul 1, 2015, 02:06 AM
Jul 2015

It may be the last political post I make on here. I am done pretending any of our system makes sense, and that's liable to get me kicked off this site at this point.

Thank you for your kind words.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
190. Let me know when you do
Wed Jul 1, 2015, 03:03 AM
Jul 2015

And what a sad commentary that standing up for what you believe in, for what has traditionally been the Democratic platform, will get you kicked off this site. That is fucking tragic and shows just how much our "allies" really give a damn about issues. At least they are showing who they are.

F4lconF16

(3,747 posts)
191. What I believe in is not and has never been what the Democratic Party platform has been based on.
Wed Jul 1, 2015, 03:12 AM
Jul 2015

Not even in the days of FDR.

In all fairness, this is a site to support Democrats. I'm sad to say I do not think I can anymore. Their politics and mine no longer align, and I don't think they ever will in the future. It may be time for me to find other websites, though I'd like to keep posting in the non-political forums.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
199. I think you are saying what a lot of us feel
Wed Jul 1, 2015, 12:42 PM
Jul 2015

The party is far too corporate to me and US politics is a corrupt cesspool. I'm going to be moving to Europe in the fall and I'm hoping to see new politics in action.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
100. Well her article is a nasty critique itself
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 08:12 AM
Jun 2015

There is nothing in this article that will make this world a better place, it is extremely nasty and if she is going to attack her "allies" like this she should not be surprised that we don't consider her much of an ally.

betsuni

(25,472 posts)
59. "generosity and kindness and style" -- these are qualities I've always thought
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 11:26 PM
Jun 2015

came naturally to lefty-type people. Empathy and intelligence: "which are not as separate as we have been told."

Now there are many ... how to describe them? People who probably wouldn't have self-described as Left if G.W. Bush hadn't wrecked everything so thoroughly. A "form of narcissism dressed up as ethics." The negativity! Conversation-poopers. Out of the blue here they come with their instant conversation-stopping words. "Drones" is one. If you say anything after that they'll accuse you of condoning the murder of innocent children. Yes,yes, because bad things happen then everything is bad and how dare you not think everything is bad, what are you, a monster? Yesterday a conversation I was having about Obama was shut down with the word "neoliberal." I keep forgetting what a neoliberal is and didn't want to bother looking it up again. Fine, Obama is bad because "neoliberal."

I'm at the point where I almost prefer conversing with Christian fundamentalists to the "left wing absolutists." The latter are so rude with the name-calling and making sure everyone knows how clever they think they are. Fundies simply tell you that because you don't think like them you'll roast in the scorching flames of Hellfire for all eternity. At least that's not a personal attack.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
61. Wow seems much of the party folks are dead serious about the "rancid" left.
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 11:52 PM
Jun 2015

Breaks my heart to think I have been a moderate Democrat all my life, but now that I stand up and say my stances are liberal...I feel like I should be ashamed or something.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026922812

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
68. You obviously missed the point entirely
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 01:34 AM
Jun 2015

The author is on the left. She is not dismissing leftism itself but what she sees as the destructive behavior of some on the left. She is a leftist activist. She believes the point is to make positive change. Now clearly many disagree with that approach, but claiming this is a full scale indictment of leftism itself is simply untrue.

Read her bio. She's an activist for LGBT, women's issues and environmental issues.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
73. I know who she is. I have read many of her works. That one was done in anger....
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 01:46 AM
Jun 2015

and it's an insult to those of us who want the party to take firm stands.

I misunderstood nothing. It's a hit piece on liberals who don't know their place in the party is to fall in line.

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
74. No, it's about people who dismiss the results of activism
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 01:59 AM
Jun 2015

Who respond to positive developments like marriage equality by bringing up unrelated bad stuff, as though there can be no acknowledgment of positive change. It talks about leaders like Harvey Milk, people who work to make the world a better place and acknowledged successes along the way. It isn't about the spectacle of party politics. It talks about behaviors she sees as working against actions to make the world a better place, to improve the lives of the poor. It isn't about abdicating principle at all. It is about acting with principle:

There are really only two questions for activists: what do you want to achieve? And who do you want to be?


and

Dismissiveness is a way of disengaging from both the facts on the ground and the obligations those facts bring to bear on your life. As Michael Eric Dyson recently put it, "What is not good are ideals and rhetorics that don't have the possibility of changing the condition that you analyse. Otherwise, you're engaging in a form of rhetorical narcissism and ideological self-preoccupation that has no consequence on the material conditions of actually existing poor people." .
. .

It assumes a concern beyond party politics.








madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
75. Most liberals I know work to make the "world a better place."
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 02:03 AM
Jun 2015

She painted with such a broad brush it was offensive.

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
76. She isn't discussing liberals
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 02:09 AM
Jun 2015

she specifies a certain sector of the left, not liberals, and not all of the left. Her one reference to liberals is to talk about a more general focus on domestic as opposed to foreign involvement. There should be no reason to find offense in something that doesn't pertain to one's own behavior.

Most PEOPLE do not work to make the world a better place. Most people are not activists. It's much easier to complain and critique than to work to change things, to make the world a better place. All of us can do the latter, only some do the former. The problem is when every effort is met with negativity, it makes it more frustrating for the activists to do the hard work they do.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
71. They fear us because we vote in such high numbers in elections.
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 01:39 AM
Jun 2015

That shit will never work, I guess none of them notice by now how only a small portion of people buy that whinny drivel from someone that has never worked an honest day in their life I would bet.

betsuni

(25,472 posts)
92. Generosity, kindness and style reminded me of this.
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 04:36 AM
Jun 2015

Garrison Keillor's "Homegrown Democrat":

"I am a liberal and liberalism is the politics of kindness. Liberals stand for tolerance, magnanimity, community spirit, the defense of the weak against the powerful, love of learning, freedom of belief, art and poetry, city life ... . The people who call themselves conservatives stand for tax cuts ... the only policy they know. Use the refund to buy a gun and an attack dog to take with you when you drive your all-terrain vehicle through the barricades of Republicanville to make a foray into enemy territory to purchase supplies. They are leading this great land toward a Lost New World where ... people will live in walled compounds with moats, like in the Middle Ages.

"It's the natural cycle of life, I suppose, that conservatives become anarchists and liberals conservatives. Once we Democrats were young and rebellious and lobbed eggs at the bewigged and berobed Establishment and now we're the parents with the thankless job of home maintenance, defending principles that go back to the founding of the Republic, namely, the notion of the common good, the principle of equality, the very idea of representative government. We've become the tiresome, repetitive old dad who tell his boys that Progress Depends on Teamwork and All of Us Learning to Pull Together, while the Republicans have turned into the Screw You Party. ... What liberals must conserve is the middle class ... ."

lovemydog

(11,833 posts)
63. Yes, because as the brilliant Michael Eric Dyson says:
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 12:06 AM
Jun 2015

"What is not good are ideals and rhetorics that don't have the possibility of changing the condition that you analyse. Otherwise, you're engaging in a form of rhetorical narcissism and ideological self-preoccupation that has no consequence on the material conditions of actually existing poor people." . . .

I enjoy DU to connect with like-minded folks. Thankfully there are many here and I thank them for being engaging.

Response to BainsBane (Original post)

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
70. They don't like us, we are the group that votes for the POTUS 80 - 90% of the time.
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 01:38 AM
Jun 2015

If they can break us down and destroy our spirit, that will be less votes for the Democratic Party. Simple plan on destroying any unitiy in the party and always at the right times.

Old. Pathetic. Same old bullshit that only a fraction of the people here and in RL listen to. Most people that vote are on the left, so these tiny groups have to bleat around eleciton time.

Just laugh and be amused.

edbermac

(15,938 posts)
67. Jury results.
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 01:32 AM
Jun 2015

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
On Mon Jun 29, 2015, 10:22 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

"A letter to my dismal allies on the US left"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026921753

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This post insults in the most derogatory manner a huge population of this community. I cannot believe that this has been posted here.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Jun 29, 2015, 10:28 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
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Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
Cannot reply to automated messages

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
83. How condescending. "the poor darling"
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 02:50 AM
Jun 2015

That article is an attack on almost all of us here.

It's shameful.

I never ceased to be stunned at how many people think the left, the liberals, have no place in the party....that we harm it.

That is BS.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
85. It's not an attack on me. And it's not an attack on anyone that can clearly read and understand
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 02:57 AM
Jun 2015

the type of "leftist" that the author is talking about. I find it much more shameful that some here are trying to shut any discussion this woman's article may spur down. But that's just me.

She's pretty clear about who she's talking about but I can understand why some who really want to feel aggrieved -- yet again -- that the "left" is being targeted would pretend that she's targeting them. Who knows, maybe she actually is? And it's really adorable when they scream that the "left" is being attacked, conveniently overlooking the fact that the author is a "leftist" herself.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
89. Read this paragraph again...let the ugliness sink in.
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 03:18 AM
Jun 2015
O rancid sector of the far left, please stop your grousing! Compared to you, Eeyore sounds like a Teletubby. If I gave you a pony, you would not only be furious that not everyone has a pony, but you would pick on the pony for not being radical enough until it wept big, sad, hot pony tears. Because what we're talking about here is not an analysis, a strategy, or a cosmology, but an attitude, and one that is poisoning us. Not just me, but you, us, and our possibilities.


betsuni

(25,472 posts)
90. I'm surprised anyone thinks this is an attack on the entire left.
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 03:24 AM
Jun 2015

Had to read it again in case I have become hard of reading. I have not.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
116. Do you think any portion of the Left should be attacked like this?
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 11:30 AM
Jun 2015

Or any Democrat for that matter?

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
148. Tell that to Glenn Greenwald, Nader, Cornell West, Tavis Smiley, Jane Hamsher, AND...
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 01:35 PM
Jun 2015

the DUer who called the President a POSUCS AND all the DUers who relentlessly attack Hillary and Obama.

Response to joshcryer (Reply #79)

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
80. Defending this paragraph...
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 02:36 AM
Jun 2015

is inexcusable.

O rancid sector of the far left, please stop your grousing! Compared to you, Eeyore sounds like a Teletubby. If I gave you a pony, you would not only be furious that not everyone has a pony, but you would pick on the pony for not being radical enough until it wept big, sad, hot pony tears. Because what we're talking about here is not an analysis, a strategy, or a cosmology, but an attitude, and one that is poisoning us. Not just me, but you, us, and our possibilities.


It's rude and it is ugly.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
86. Lesser of two evils makes the point
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 02:59 AM
Jun 2015

You have straight up corruption or more favorable corruption usually. Its just an expression of hoping for better candidates, his job is to now discredit the populist wing. I hope he realizes he's just a pawn in all this. As soon as you're no longer needed you're discarded.

What I want is the truth good or bad.

On edit -- this seems to be addressed to me or inspired from something that caught their attention. To answer the overall question is that is my Catch-22

Another example is fear-of-fear. The importance of fear is "built up", a psychological construction, where previously there was no importance in fear. After the "build up" process of inducing a high importance on fear, a normal emotion in people, if the victim experiences fear, his ego or psychology can be devastated to bring them "crashing down".

<snip>


Subtle attacks are usually used to destabilize a person and to get through or bypass the person's psychological defenses. They can leave the victim unsure or uncertain on how to react or wondering if the subtle attack was intentional.

The use of something personal, sensitive, or private information is usually used to destabilize the victim and to make the person feel vulnerable and insecure.

Degrading themes are also used in subtle attacks.

http://www.psychologicalharassment.com/psychological-manipulation.htm

 

HFRN

(1,469 posts)
101. if, hypethetically, the party became corrupt, this attitude
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 08:47 AM
Jun 2015

would defend it, condone it, and bully anyone who pointed it out

that's the danger of such sentiments

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
109. Good read. Interesting to see an activist on the left atacked like this here.
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 09:45 AM
Jun 2015

OK. Maybe not. She might hold an opinion or two that people don't like. That's not good enough for the purity of some.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
125. Please read all of the replies.
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 12:24 PM
Jun 2015

So that one word bugs you. Oh well. If you read the replies you would see people foolishly stepping all over themselves to try and malign a good and active progressive. Purity in deed. All over in replies. Sorry if you aren't willing to see it.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
127. "to try and malign a good and active progressive"
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 12:26 PM
Jun 2015

Make that plural and that's what her article did. Works both ways.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
128. "Works both ways. "
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 12:29 PM
Jun 2015

In order for you to type that and mean it, you would first have to agree with my original assessment. Why did you disagree with it and then state it was so to make a point?

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
131. I understand she doesn't rise to your level of activism...
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 12:41 PM
Jun 2015

but few of us do. Yes, she is an activist by any definition of the word.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebecca_Solnit

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
133. "Shut up, you pony-wanting hippies!" is action of a sort, I suppose.
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 12:48 PM
Jun 2015

But when her action is to attempt to convince liberals to sit on their hands, I wouldn't call her an "activist on the left". Activist toward the left? ... at the left? ...against the left? Perhaps.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
134. Then you are commenting about a person you know nothing about.
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 12:50 PM
Jun 2015

It also appears she hit a soft spot with you. Try to be more open minded and figure out why a progressive activist woman upsets you so much. This really isn't all that offensive. Pretty mild actually.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
136. I don't know her personally. But she's an archetype of a type of "liberal" I run into all too often.
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 12:53 PM
Jun 2015

"We need to get money out of politics... you know... eventually. Vote Hillary!"

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
110. It's so disgusting to see the same party sycophants
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 10:08 AM
Jun 2015

who were so condescending about gay rights a few short years ago (when this piece was written, btw), with their 'fabulous pink pony' talk, suddenly acting as if they were even on our SIDE during the actual fight. But they don't want to just celebrate an achievement their heroes either ignored or actively spoke out against-- they want to claim credit for it, and kick the left some more, with yet more condescending assholery.

I'm tired of it. Can't you just celebrate?

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
168. ^^This!^^
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 05:06 PM
Jun 2015

I can't believe how little credit was given to the activists who had to fight leaders and party for their own rights. For fuck's sake!

frylock

(34,825 posts)
175. The Very Sensible People taking a victory lap over the same-sex marriage decision..
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 07:17 PM
Jun 2015

remind me of the woman that cheated to win the Boston Marathon. Hook a ride to the finish line, then claim you won it.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
132. Am I the only DUer who remembers,
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 12:44 PM
Jun 2015

back before DU 3, when DU self-identified as a "left-wing" discussion board?

Now DUers think it's okay to attack, marginalize, and disenfranchise the left.

THAT'S what neoliberalism gets us.

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
135. No, it is not attacking the entire left
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 12:53 PM
Jun 2015

I am a leftist. The author is a leftist. It is critiquing a certain behavior pattern among some on the left. Now tell me how people who insist the Democratic party be subject to continual criticism refuse to accept any critiques that might apply to themselves? Do you not see a contradiction in that? Seems to me if people are to turn a critical lens on others, they ought to be able to turn it on themselves as well. Because if signing up for this site means I have to declare myself a superior life form, better than the rest of humanity, I can't do that. It runs counter to any principles of equality and collective action.

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
140. Let me understand this
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 01:00 PM
Jun 2015

You think it's entirely appropriate for people to devote themselves to criticizing the party, politicians, and other Democratic voters all day long, but refuse to brook any criticism that might apply to themselves?
Does posting on DU mean you are superior to the rest of the human race? I thought leftism entailed a basic belief in human equality, yet I have discovered that is not the case at all, that some seem to think it means they are better than those they criticize.

I don't understand this notion of leftism where some are superior to others. If leftism isn't oriented toward Marxism, toward an idea that we are all equal, then I don't know what it means. I have to wonder if the neoliberal redefinition is by those who eschew traditional leftism oriented toward Marx, for something else, an intra-group dynamic that operates based on hierarchy rather than principles of equality?

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
139. So you say these ugly words are okay against "some" activists?
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 12:57 PM
Jun 2015

I don't think a post with such ugly attacks is at all acceptable.

It hurts all of us.

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
141. Piece of shit used car salesman
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 01:04 PM
Jun 2015

corporatist, aligned with Goldman Sachs and the 1 percent, neoliberal, sell-out, Turd Way.

Those are words that are hurtful too, and deliberately so, yet they have been used with impunity and without criticism toward the left, particularly the segments of the left who are not oriented toward a certain, narrowly defined conception of politics.

Those are hurtful words, particularly when they deny people the right to define their own ideology. They are words that seek to exclude, sow division, and create a smaller leftist/Democratic movement. Those are words directed not just toward politicians but ordinary voters, people who often have less money and privilege than many hurling the insults.

Now you tell me why those people are superior to me and the rest of the country, why they should be immune from criticism while I and others should be insulted regularly? Why is it acceptable for some to say their enemy is the American public, the 85 percent who disagree with them, which includes the majority of women and people of color? Why is that more acceptable than this article? Why are those people superior to the rest of the American public?

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
143. I take that as a clear acknowledgement
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 01:13 PM
Jun 2015

that you have no explanation for the blatant contradiction.

Here is a basic point: There is no legitimate version of leftism that holds some people to be superior to others. It is antithetical to notions of equality that are at the heart of leftism. When you insist others be subject to criticism but engage in outrage when you think it might apply to you, it reveals that you hold a certain small group above the rest of the population. That, IMO, counters the very heart of what it means to be the leftist.

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
178. Your objection to this OP was that it is hurtful
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 08:38 PM
Jun 2015

and now you use that as a way to dismiss my point that you insist no criticism that might possibly pertain to you be allowed, whereas others should be criticized regularly? Why don't you post a list of who can be criticized and who can't be and ask Skinner to pin it to the top of the forums so we all know.

I will again repeat I do not share such hierarchical notions of human worth and I do not see how they comport with any meaningful conception of leftism.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
183. What ARE you talking about? Where are you getting all that.
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 08:58 PM
Jun 2015

I do not feel any of those ways. I wish you would explain. I get criticized here all the time.

ismnotwasm

(41,976 posts)
146. Hey Bains--
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 01:32 PM
Jun 2015

I think you are soundly sensible, brilliant as a star and incredibly articulate. Hardly criteria for "hurting and angry"

Sheldon Cooper

(3,724 posts)
158. Agreed.
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 02:53 PM
Jun 2015

Bains is doing just fine, and the butt hurt because of it, that's being displayed in multiple threads all over this forum, is hilarious. Some folks can dish it out but boy howdy they sure cannot take it. Hurting and angry? Pot, kettle, match.

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
202. +1...
Wed Jul 1, 2015, 12:51 PM
Jul 2015

"hurting and angry" is a cheap dismissal of a reasoned opinion as being overly emotional.

When it's clearly not.

Sid

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
165. Here's a difference.
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 03:58 PM
Jun 2015

You scream and complain about the "piece of shit used car salesman" post for years on end, but you rec comments from people who called gay rights a "fabulous pink pony" when the issue wasn't 'pragmatic', and repost insulting shit like the entry in your OP.

That's a striking difference, isn't it?

You aren't some poor little put-upon innocent. At best, you're the mirror image of the people you despise.

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
174. WTF are you talking about?
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 07:13 PM
Jun 2015

I don't denigrate gay rights. I NEVER have. Show the thread I rec'd that says that. Go on. Provide links.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
147. Ah some condescending grade A bullshit
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 01:33 PM
Jun 2015

from somebody who accuses those who disagree of being condescending.

I cannot make this stuff up... it just appears in front of my screen. Now back to work with me, I needed the break from actual well, infrastructure policy planning.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
211. I am glad that amuses you
Wed Jul 1, 2015, 03:50 PM
Jul 2015

but my irony meter regarding you broke so long ago I gave up trying to fix it. And every time I get one... you break it.

?d=1351016118

And you broke another one.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
173. I found this to be humorously hypocritical.
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 06:17 PM
Jun 2015

The author did everything he accused "The Left" of doing.
I've never seen such a clear case of projection.




BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
177. She is on the left
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 08:34 PM
Jun 2015

It's in the first sentence. A certain "sector" of the far left, not all of it. A certain sector. She is a leftist activist.

betsuni

(25,472 posts)
187. This is driving me nuts. SECTOR SECTOR SECTOR SECTOR. Right smack at the top of the article.
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 11:15 PM
Jun 2015

Sector of the far left. This is not difficult.

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
201. Rebecca Solnit
Wed Jul 1, 2015, 12:50 PM
Jul 2015


Activism[edit]
Solnit has worked on environmental and human rights campaigns since the 1980s, notably with the Western Shoshone Defense Project in the early 1990s, as described in her book Savage Dreams, and with antiwar activists throughout the Bush era.[6] She has discussed her interest in climate change and the work of 350.org and the Sierra Club, and in women's rights, especially violence against women.[7]

Writing[edit]
Her writing has appeared in numerous publications in print and online, including Harper's Magazine and Tom Engelhardt's website Tomdispatch.com.[8]

Solnit is the author of thirteen books as well as essays in numerous museum catalogs and anthologies. Her 2009 book A Paradise Built in Hell: The Extraordinary Communities that Arise in Disaster began as an essay called "The Uses of Disaster: Notes on Bad Weather and Good Government" published by Harper’s magazine the day that Hurricane Katrina hit the Gulf coast. It was partially inspired by the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake, which Solnit described as "a remarkable occasion...a moment when everyday life ground to a halt and people looked around and hunkered down". In a conversation with filmmaker Astra Taylor for BOMB magazine, Solnit summarized the radical theme of A Paradise Built in Hell: "What happens in disasters demonstrates everything an anarchist ever wanted to believe about the triumph of civil society and the failure of institutional authority."[6]

Awards and recognition[edit]
Solnit has received two NEA fellowships for Literature, a Guggenheim Fellowship, a Lannan literary fellowship, and a 2004 Wired Rave Award for writing on the effects of technology on the arts and humanities.[9] In 2010 Utne Reader magazine named Solnit as one of the "25 Visionaries Who Are Changing Your World".[10] Her The Faraway Nearby (2013) was nominated for a National Book Award,[11] and shortlisted for the 2013 National Book Critics Circle Award.[12][13]

For River of Shadows, Solnit was honored with the 2004 National Book Critics Circle Award in Criticism[14] and the 2004 Sally Hacker Prize from the Society for the History of Technology, which honors exceptional scholarship that reaches beyond the academy toward a broad audience.[15] Solnit was also awarded Harvard's Mark Lynton History Prize in 2004 for River of Shadows.[16]

Solnit credits Eduardo Galeano, Pablo Neruda, Ariel Dorfman, Elena Poniatowska, Gabriel García Márquez, and Virginia Woolf as writers who have influenced her work
[6]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebecca_Solnit

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
186. Does anyone here think Democrats are not liberal? Some may be moderate liberals and some are
Tue Jun 30, 2015, 10:19 PM
Jun 2015

hard core liberals, but liberals none the less. I am a proud liberal, have been all of my life, believe in the DNC platform and support Democrat candidates.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
192. Ponies? Do you *really* want to bring up Ponies at this particular moment?
Wed Jul 1, 2015, 03:45 AM
Jul 2015

This OP is remarkably tin eared, gays just won a huge civil rights victory that was derided by pragmatic moderate centrists as pining for a pony not all that long ago.

As for the author's use of Dyson's comment, I'll just quote Clarke's Second Law: "The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible." If no one is pushing to venture past the limits of the possible then the limits of the possible aren't really known.

Gay marriage by 2015 looked to be an impossible dream in 2012, Rebecca's comments from that time are even less relevant than they were back then.


joshcryer

(62,269 posts)
193. "looked to be an impossible dream in 2012"
Wed Jul 1, 2015, 04:39 AM
Jul 2015

No it didn't, Obama came out in support of it. The polls were trending for it.

Yes, they were banning gay marriage as late as 2012: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_constitutional_amendments_banning_same-sex_unions_by_type

But in reality there were over 30 high level state litigation for it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_legislation_in_the_United_States#Lawsuits_seeking_to_overturn_statutory_bans

And we see how that "dream" became a reality, with careful, forceful, concise battles:



The "pragmatic moderate centrists" were actually the left wing activists who knew the best chance was in court, who found willing couples who they could get to go to the courts, who knew that the battles would be long and hard fought over a decade and a half. Who knew that the Republicans would use the issue against the electorate (that's why Bush won in 2004, it was the single biggest wedge issue), who knew the faux "left" would throw anyone who wasn't pure enough under the bus.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
194. I've been pro gay marriage ever since I was aware it was an issue
Wed Jul 1, 2015, 05:04 AM
Jul 2015

There have been plenty of anti gay marriage posts on DU over the years and they have virtually all come from a pragmatic moderate centrist point of view since right wingers get a pizza.

Just like Hillary now is trying to take credit for being a "leader" on gay marriage when in fact she was very late to the bandwagon.

Hillary being a typical pragmatic moderate centrist and beloved of that segment of the political spectrum.



Little Green Guy

joshcryer

(62,269 posts)
195. So have I, but I still supported Dean.
Wed Jul 1, 2015, 05:10 AM
Jul 2015

And Deaniacs were slandered as being against gay marriage.

Clinton's "evolution" is actually the worst part of it, since no intelligent person can think that she wasn't following the polls closely. The majority of states had already legalized before it went to the Supreme Court. It was well into the 60 point territory. That is not to say that it wasn't good of her to jump on board, and in a big way, but Sanders was there decades ago. So it shows she's not being particularly courageous on that issue, among many others.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
196. "It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare."
Wed Jul 1, 2015, 05:30 AM
Jul 2015

-Mark Twain

wordpix

(18,652 posts)
206. who is this "Rebecca?" She can't bother to sign her last name?
Wed Jul 1, 2015, 02:39 PM
Jul 2015

too long, Rebecca, who has time to read that drivel?

As for me, this progressive works her tail off for various progressive causes, so f-off

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
216. She did sign her last name
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 01:46 AM
Jul 2015

Last edited Thu Jul 2, 2015, 02:32 AM - Edit history (1)

It's at the very top of the article, at the byline, where authors names always are.

Good for you for working your tail off. I could be wrong, by my sense is the people who work for causes are not the same ones who gripe all the time. Seems to me the ones who work like to acknowledge the effect they have.


Activism
Solnit has worked on environmental and human rights campaigns since the 1980s, notably with the Western Shoshone Defense Project in the early 1990s, as described in her book Savage Dreams, and with antiwar activists throughout the Bush era. She has discussed her interest in climate change and the work of 350.org and the Sierra Club, and in women's rights, especially violence against women.

Writing
Her writing has appeared in numerous publications in print and online, including Harper's Magazine and Tom Engelhardt's website Tomdispatch.com.

Solnit is the author of thirteen books as well as essays in numerous museum catalogs and anthologies. Her 2009 book A Paradise Built in Hell: The Extraordinary Communities that Arise in Disaster began as an essay called "The Uses of Disaster: Notes on Bad Weather and Good Government" published by Harper’s magazine the day that Hurricane Katrina hit the Gulf coast. It was partially inspired by the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake, which Solnit described as "a remarkable occasion...a moment when everyday life ground to a halt and people looked around and hunkered down". In a conversation with filmmaker Astra Taylor for BOMB magazine, Solnit summarized the radical theme of A Paradise Built in Hell: "What happens in disasters demonstrates everything an anarchist ever wanted to believe about the triumph of civil society and the failure of institutional authority."

Awards and recognition
Solnit has received two NEA fellowships for Literature, a Guggenheim Fellowship, a Lannan literary fellowship, and a 2004 Wired Rave Award for writing on the effects of technology on the arts and humanities. In 2010 Utne Reader magazine named Solnit as one of the "25 Visionaries Who Are Changing Your World". Her The Faraway Nearby (2013) was nominated for a National Book Award, and shortlisted for the 2013 National Book Critics Circle Award.

For River of Shadows, Solnit was honored with the 2004 National Book Critics Circle Award in Criticism and the 2004 Sally Hacker Prize from the Society for the History of Technology, which honors exceptional scholarship that reaches beyond the academy toward a broad audience. Solnit was also awarded Harvard's Mark Lynton History Prize in 2004 for River of Shadows.

Solnit credits Eduardo Galeano, Pablo Neruda, Ariel Dorfman, Elena Poniatowska, Gabriel García Márquez, and Virginia Woolf as writers who have influenced her work


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebecca_Solnit
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