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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPlanned Obsolescence and why Capitalism Can Never Deliver a perfect product
Planned obsolescence or built-in obsolescence in industrial design is a policy of planning or designing a product with an artificially limited useful life, so it will become obsolete, that is, unfashionable or no longer functional after a certain period of time. The rationale behind the strategy is to generate short-term sales volume by reducing the time between repeat purchases (referred to as "shortening the replacement cycle" , until customers catch on and move to another product platform.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence
This is why pharmaceutical companies have no vested interest in finding permanent cures to any disease. If they did, they would go out of business. Instead, they focus on temporary cures. Why? because money, not society's wellbeing is the primary value in a capitalist society.
This is why we don't have light bulbs that last forever. Why, because once you sell it to one customer you can never sell to that customer ever again.
This is why addictive drugs like tobacco are the perfect product from a capitalist perspective.
If we ever want to solve a problem for good, we cannot rely on capitalism to deliver it; it is not in the best interest of corporations.
To solve it, we must look to the best interest of society and its people first, and that requires a socialist perspective.
HFRN
(1,469 posts)it used to be that a car (that wasn't collectable) had a value of almost zero after a certain age, even if it was in near new condition, sitting in the garage of a house the same age that had gone up in value
kinda nuts, when you think about it
swilton
(5,069 posts)is based upon the false assumption of unlimited resources...
HFRN
(1,469 posts)for the benefit of a minority at a point in time, at the expense of the whole of all life across time
and externalization, of true costs
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)I always suspected the Second Law of Thermodynamics was a capitalist conspiracy.
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)Incandescent light bulbs didn't last that long, but they were good for the technology we had.
CFL lightbulbs were invented in the 90's and last up to 10 years.
LED lightbulbs have now been invented that can last 20 years. I think we have made huge strides.
(I'm sure somebody will point out that lightbulbs made in the early 1900's still work, but those bulbs are useless, which is why they stopped making them)
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)They'd make money hand over fist because that would appeal to the market as the best value.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...and is a frequently used rhetorical device.
If we were reading a paragraph in a book, your critique would be valid. As it is, reading an informal essay on an online discussion group, I think it is appropriate to give a little slack. The overall point is sound: we could have lots of things that last a long time, and produce a lot less waste -- but the imperatives of capitalism work against that, so we don't.
Xipe Totec
(43,889 posts)former9thward
(31,973 posts)It is in a firehouse in Livermore, CA. Webcam is set up to watch it. http://www.centennialbulb.org/cam.htm
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)(I'm sure somebody will point out that light bulbs made in the early 1900's still work, but those bulbs are useless, which is why they stopped making them)
Incandescent light bulbs can be made to last longer, you use a thick filament, but the thicker you make the filament, the dimmer the bulb. I know Incandescent light bulbs are not sold, but if you look at the packaging of a double life lightbulb, they put out 10-20% less light than a 'standard' light bulb.
So yes, even in 1900, we could design a light bulb that lasted 100 years. It put used 30 watts of electricity, and put out about the same light as an incandescent 4 watt light bulb.
My living room has 180 watts of lighting, assuming I'm using incandescent. To get the same output, I now have about 30 watts of LED.
If I bought a bunch of centennial bulbs, I would need about 45 of them, and I would use 1350 watts.
So the reason we switched to tugnsten bulbs that lasted 1 year vs 100 is they put out about 15 times as much light.
Even look at some replica light bulbs
http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?partNumber=607167-23915-60WST18TH&langId=-1&storeId=10151&productId=50277935&catalogId=10051&cmRelshp=req&rel=nofollow&cId=PDIO1
They use 60 watts and put out 1/3 the light, and that is using modern manufacturing. If the filament was thicker (which it would have to be given 1900 technology limits), then it would last longer, but be even dimmer.
former9thward
(31,973 posts)I was just showing people who might not believe a bulb that old would be still be burning. I agree the bulb is not really worth anything in terms of light for the modern era.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)There are a lot of products that shouldn't need to be replaced for a lifetime, a hand can opener say.. I have one in my camping kit that will in fact last a lifetime but it's not particularly convenient to use and leaves a very jagged edge on the cut. You can still buy them and they will still last basically forever but people don't like to use them.
As far as technology products, does anyone want to go back to black dial phones that weighed ten pounds and were on a six foot cord?
My phone is one I bought off a friend for $20 when he got a new one, it has vastly more powerful everything than my first PC, graphics, sound, memory and so on.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Engineering is a compromise. And the more complex the system, the more compromises need to be made.
My dad used to talk about owning shoes that would last "20 years." But putting aside parental exaggeration, the fact is that shoes used to COST a lot more too. You can still get shoes made that way if you want to pay $200/pr.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)The exact pair of shoes might not last 20 years, but they have a no questions asked replacement policy. You buy clothing or shoes from them, you can return them for a replacement if they're damaged or worn out. I haven't yet done it with shoes, but I've done it with shirts I ripped.
surrealAmerican
(11,360 posts)Parts of them did last 20 years, and other parts didn't. They also required more care than most people put into their footwear in this day and age.
Xipe Totec
(43,889 posts)It is science at the service of capitalism.
Of course engineering is compromise.
"Anyone can build a bridge that stands, but it takes an engineer to build a bridge that *barely* stands."
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Xipe Totec
(43,889 posts)An orphan drug is a pharmaceutical agent that has been developed specifically to treat a rare medical condition, the condition itself being referred to as an orphan disease.
Since the market for any drug with such a limited application scope would, by definition, be small and thus largely unprofitable for pharmaceutical companies, government intervention is often required to motivate a manufacturer to address the need for an orphan drug.
The Orphan Drug Act (ODA) of January 1983, passed in the United States, with lobbying from the National Organization for Rare Disorders and many other organizations, is meant to encourage pharmaceutical companies to develop drugs for diseases that have a small market.[9] Under the ODA orphan drug sponsors qualify for seven-year FDA-administered market Orphan Drug Exclusivity (ODE), "tax credits of up to 50% of R&D costs, R&D grants, waived FDA fees, protocol assistance[5]:660 and and may get clinical trial tax incentives.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orphan_drug
Bottom line, when the profit motive is not sufficient to obtain results, the state intervenes to create an artificial profit.
Pharmaceuticals do not generate vaccines except with direct subsidies from the government.
liberal N proud
(60,334 posts)Or at least wouldn't be willing to pay for it.
To make the product last forever, it takes engineering which cost money. It takes quality resources which cost money, and it takes efficient production which cost money. Then it has to be a safe product which cost money.
What you end up with is the most cost effective, safest product that the consumer is willing to pay for.
One_Life_To_Give
(6,036 posts)Ineptitude and Short Sightedness as opposed to Planned.
It takes work to make a product fail on schedule. Most company's are not going to spend the $'s on Engineers to have them develop a product that fails in a somewhat precise and predictable matter. Occams Razor suggests the culprit is the attempt to make an item ever cheaper than either it's competition or it's predecessor. When all you care about is being certain it doesn't fail excessively during warranty, it's no surprise that failures start to become significant shortly there after.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)Xipe Totec
(43,889 posts)In 1926, five years after winning the Nobel Prize in Physics, Albert Einstein read a news story about the death of a Berlin family, killed by toxic fumes that leaked from a broken seal in their refrigerator. Dangerous leaks like this were becoming an alarmingly frequent occurrence as old-fashioned ice boxes were replaced with modern refrigerators that used poisonous coolants.
Einstein became preoccupied with this tragedy, insisting that a better refrigerator design must be possible. He and former student Leó Szilárd a gifted young physicist who went on to conceive the nuclear chain reaction and electron microscope set out to find one.
Their approach to the problem sidestepped all conventional thinking about refrigeration. Because refrigerator leaks are usually caused when bearings and seals wear out, the team believed they could prevent this danger by designing a device with no moving parts: no motor, no mechanical motion, nothing to wear out. They used their knowledge of thermodynamics to produce an absorption refrigerator, a device that drove a combination of safer gases and liquids through three interconnected circuits. It required only a small pilot light as a heat source and was hermetically sealed and safe so safe that some experts estimate the casing could last 100 years.
https://blog.etsy.com/en/2012/the-einstein-refrigerator-built-to-last-100-years
former9thward
(31,973 posts)Have socialist countries ever produced a light bulb which goes forever? And the products they produce are pretty much junk.
Xipe Totec
(43,889 posts)Obfuscating, really. But that's another topic.
We're talking about profit as the prime motor of all 'good things'. That, given enough time, all problems will find an optimal solution if profit is involved.
I maintain that that argument is fundamentally and fatally flawed.
former9thward
(31,973 posts)But it is the system which brings the biggest amount of wealth to the biggest amount of people in the shortest time.
Xipe Totec
(43,889 posts)former9thward
(31,973 posts)Countries that institute socialism end up making their whole population poor with the exception of connected party members.
Xipe Totec
(43,889 posts)Denmark, Norway, Sweden?
former9thward
(31,973 posts)They are all market based capitalist countries. They all have more social welfare programs than we do but they are capitalist. You don't get to redefine what socialism is and that is what you are trying to do.
hack89
(39,171 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)So I'm not sure what your point there, is. Also, the fundamental concept your thesis is missing, is competition. Yes if there is some grand conspiracy on the part of all makers of all products to deliver things with deliberate defects or stunted lifepsans, sure, this will work.
But the minute people figure it out and someone else starts selling something that actually lasts, all bets are off.
Xipe Totec
(43,889 posts)Pure capitalism leads to monopoly. We already figured that out.
In order for competition itself to survive, we have to break monopolies.
Microsoft rescued Apple because it knew that if Apple fell, they would be a monopoly and be broken up.
So enlightened self interest drove them to rescue their competition from oblivion.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Like platonic solids.
If you want to criticize the real-world failures of the regulated capitalism we have, fine, but you ought to be prepared to demonstrate how real-world implementation of socialism*, communism, or planned central economies have done a better job of bringing quality products to the public.
* i will add that in the real world i do think some markets or sectors benefit from additional collective involvement, health care - and specifically insurance or coverage, (because, among other reasons, it is precisely when people are suffering large economic hits due to health that they most often incur onerous health expenses) being one notable example. However, health care is not light bulbs.
Xipe Totec
(43,889 posts)You ought to be familiar with his position by now.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)I mean, at the very least come up with a better example than light bulbs. The new LED ones, while expensive, last practically forever.
Xipe Totec
(43,889 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)As for the odd reference to the talmud, if that's a sideways attempt at a swipe at my Jewishness, dude... you can find a helluva lot more observant ones than me.
If anything my holy book is the tao te ching. Or the onion.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)When I shop, I look for the opposite of 'disposability'. I want items that will outlast my lifetime, so I never have to buy them again. Preferably things that will still be usable a hundred years from now.
The2ndWheel
(7,947 posts)We have demand creating jobs. We have products that people wish would last forever. We have more and more people needing jobs. We have more and more technology taking the need for people out of the equation. The list goes on and on. More people going to college, decreases the value of that education. It just keeps going.
It's all a very complicated situation, and nothing about it is as easy as just having a socialist perspective, a capitalist perspective, a mixed perspective, or whatever else. It's just not that simple.
Xipe Totec
(43,889 posts)Snobblevitch
(1,958 posts)Xipe Totec
(43,889 posts)Cast iron pans were used as early as the Han Dynasty in China (206 BC 220 AD) for salt evaporation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cast-iron_cookware
If you want to cite that as a triumph of capitalism, go right ahead.