Ken Burns: Confederate flag isn't about heritage. It's about resistance to civil rights.

[Skinner]

Interesting point about SC articles of secession.

Ken Burns, the documentarian behind PBS's acclaimed The Civil War series, blasted the myth that the Confederate flag isn't a symbol of racism and white supremacy during a Thursday appearance on MSNBC's Morning Joe.

"I think what happens is that we build up over time the sense of an excuse about why it came," Burns said. "If you read … South Carolina's articles of secession in November — after Lincoln's election of 1860 — they don't mention states' rights, they don't mention nullification. They mention slavery over and over again."

He later added, "Those (Confederate) flags came in after Brown v. Board of Education. This is not about heritage. This is about resistance to civil rights."

More: http://www.vox.com/2015/6/25/8846879/ken-burns-civil-war

[leftstreet]

1. DURec

[Coventina]

2. K&R

[Faux pas]

3. It's about resistance to civil rights.

So very true!

[billhicks76]

48. Yes. Round Up The Racists

And put them where they belong.

[FSogol]

4. K & R. n/t

[freshwest]

5. Absolutely. The reincarnation of States' Rights is the Tenther Movement.

Last edited Thu Jun 25, 2015, 07:39 PM - Edit history (1)

10th Amendment Resolutions[edit]

In 2009-2010 thirty-eight states have introduced resolutions to reaffirm the principles of sovereignty under the Constitution and the 10th Amendment; 14 states have passed the resolutions. These non-binding resolutions, often called "state sovereignty resolutions" do not carry the force of law. Instead, they are intended to be a statement to demand that the federal government halt its practices of assuming powers and imposing mandates upon the states for purposes not enumerated by the Constitution.[4]

More at the States' Rights entry:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/States%27_rights

The Tenther movement is a political ideology and a social movement in the United States that espouses that many actions of the United States government are unconstitutional.[1]

Political and social positions[edit]

Adherents invoke the concept that the states share sovereignty with the federal government and with the people by citing the Tenth Amendment to the United States Constitution as the basis for their legal and ideological beliefs:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Adherents believe that political authority enumerated in the United States Constitution as belonging to the Federal Government must be read very narrowly to exclude much of what the national government already does.[2] They argue for the recognition of limited sovereignty of the States.[3] Opponents use the term in order to draw parallels between adherents and 19th century states' rights secessionists, as well as the movement to resist Federal Civil Rights legislation.[4] Tentherism was one of the justifications used by pro-slavery advocate John Calhoun before the Civil War.[5]

Some object to the name "Tenther" as it originated as a pejorative used by those opposed to the movement's ideas, in an attempt to reference and draw parallels to conspiratorial movements such as Birthers and Truthers.[6]

Joni Ernst, a Republican member of the Iowa Senate, said in a September 2013 forum held by the Iowa Faith & Freedom Coalition, that Congress shouldn't bother to pass laws "that the states would consider nullifying”, referring to what she describes as "200-plus years of federal legislators going against the Tenth Amendment's states' rights."[5] According to an article published by the UPI, Supreme Court case law has determined that the Constitution forbids nullification, and interprets the Tenth Amendment as a basic statement, and not a prohibition against the federal government from passing additional laws not already enumerated in the Constitution, and that Erst "may wish to brush up on her high school civics."[5]
Examples of political authority opposed[edit]

Adherents oppose a broad range of federal government programs, including the War on Drugs, federal surveillance, and other limitations on privacy and civil and economic liberties, plus numerous New Deal legislation to Great Society legislation, such as Medicaid, Medicare, the VA health system and the G.I. Bill.[2]

Tenther movement should not be confused with libertarianism, although the two often have similar positions. Whereas libertarians oppose programs such as the War on Drugs on ideological grounds, seeing them as unjustified government intrusion into lives of its citizens, tenthers hold that such programs may be perfectly acceptable but only when implemented by individual states. Libertarians are opposed to sodomy laws and believe that "the government has no business in the bedroom".[7] In contrast, it has been argued by tenthers that the 2003 Supreme Court decision in Lawrence v. Texas, which invalidated sodomy laws in all U.S. states where they remained, was an unconstitutional federal intrusion into what should have been a states' rights area; from the tenther perspective, "there clearly is no right to sodomy found anywhere in the Constitution" and "the State of Texas has the right to decide for itself how to regulate social matters like sex, using its own local standards".[8] Tenthers also oppose involvement of the Federal Government in enforcing the federal War on Drugs, particularly in states that have decriminalizing legislation such as Colorado and Washington.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenther_movement

Thus people are forced to flee their home for rights they expected in the progressive area but have rolled back in the states. It's much easier to oppress people that way.

[Spazito]

6. Exactly!

I love Ken Burns, his documentaries, every one, are must-watch shows for me, often repeatedly.

[Prism]

7. Ken Burns is unparalleled on Southern commentary

His Civil War documentary is on Netflix, and I highly advise anyone able to to watch it. It is, above all, very fair about Southern perspectives. He takes pains to include Southern historians when outlining how the South felt both leading up to and during the War.

[YOHABLO]

70. I have every episode except it's all on VHS .. love watching it.

[arcane1]

8. He's right. That whole "heritage" crap came about during the Southern Strategy

It's funny to hear people now, complaining that "it's not about slavery, you're just adding new meanings to the flag" when in actuality, it's the "heritage" people who are adding made-up reasons.

Some of the aforementioned secession documents. See if you can find a non-slavery reason therein:

http://www.civilwar.org/education/history/primarysources/declarationofcauses.html?referrer=https://www.facebook.com/

[winter is coming]

18. Yes, it's all about the Southern Strategy.

Hatred sown for political benefit. And the slavery supporters pushing the argument that slaves were lazy, violent, stupid, or any other negative attribute you can think of were sowing hatred for economic gain. They were othering their "workforce" to make it easier for them to exploit people. They weren't the first who did it, and they won't be the last, but they sure went full-bore on the ugly.

[Gregorian]

9. Belligerence

This really rings true.

It's at the heart of the conservative. No compassion. No empathy. Aggression.

[daredtowork]

10. Nailed it. nt

[RobertEarl]

11. I concur

I live in the south and know too many of the flag wavers. Most of the wavers wouldn't know history if it was tattooed on their foreheads.

So they relegate themselves to believing what their betters tell them, and their betters tell them to fear those who are not like them.

In a sense tho, the heritage of the south is slavery to the elites, because that's how the elites like the working people to be. Unions are almost non-existent here. The media sucks up to the powerful, and the churches do their damnedest to keep the masses dumb.

Education, travel, and meeting new and different people is the best way to change the mindset of southerners, and we see that in the bigger cities that is happening.

[Aerows]

12. He hit the bull's eye

That's exactly what it is about.

[kairos12]

13. I say more like the b.s. eye.

[joeybee12]

14. What does he know...he's just a very smart, learned and talented historical filmmaker

Who knows a thing or two...why should we believe him? knr

[zentrum]

15. Wish Burns would

….do a full documentary about systemic racism after the Civil War, both North and South.

The truth of our history is not being taught in our schools and White Americans are really smugly ignorant about how bad it's been since emancipation.

[eShirl]

49. +1

[abakan]

16. Right on target.

If anyone would know what this flag is about, it would be Ken Burns. He is a true scholar of the south.

[TNNurse]

17. I was a child in the sixties in the south

I did not understand. I have understood however for a very long time that the flag has become a symbol to racists and not many others. There may be decent people out there who still believe it is a valid part of our heritage....I can take you to my Confederate Great-grandfather's grave, but now it only represents a very ugly part of our history and CANNOT BE TOLERATED BY REASONABLE PEOPLE.

[maddiemom]

65. I had two uncles (by marriage) from the South.

Both were college educated professional men from the "greatest generation" era. Both were always very careful never to make derogatory remarks or express any overtly raciest sentiments. Nonetheless, a definite superiority over Blacks slipped out in many ways, especially in the Sixties: "Black Power" was incomprehensible to them, and while they knew "a lot of decent 'Nigras'," they thought the Civil Rights Act should have solved any and all racial problems. They prided themselves in doing business with Blacks, but were never friends with anyone of any other race that I know of. I don't mean to insult these otherwise decent men and good husbands to my aunts: I just mean to point out that a lot has been changing since that generation, but it's a slow process. Bigots don't just die out, obviously, but have to become more and more outnumbered.

[BKH70041]

19. It's really about both.

The "States' rights" is implied. States rights as to whether a State would or would not be a slave State.

For every slave State in the Union there was to be a free State, and vice versa. That was the way it was done.

The Kansas–Nebraska Act helped light the power keg that was sure to happen eventually.

[Matrosov]

20. It's very simple

Fact #1: The Confederate States of America were founded to protect slavery and white supremacy.
Fact #2: The Confederate Flag, regardless of whether it's a battle flag or any other flag, is a representation of the CSA.
Conclusion: The Confederate Flag represents slavery and white supremacy.

It doesn't matter one bit why any person chooses to fly the Confederate Flag, the rebel flag, or whatever they want to call it. The fact of the matter is, the flag is a symbol of racial hatred and bigotry, and consequently it needs to go.

[Dustlawyer]

21. When you have a question about history, ask a Historian! Seems simple, what did they mean by

that flag and how did it come about? This is knowable, not theory. The flag defenders just feel like something is being taken away from them. At least that is what I got when I ran into an old friend yesterday, who appears to have gone full Tea Party. I asked him to reverse the roles of white and black. The blacks were the slave owners with their famous General, Martin L. King. You have to drive down MLK past his statue dressed in his general's uniform astride his horse with his sword out. A sword that you know cut down your ancestors and fought to keep them enslaved as property. How would you feel today still seeing this man revered and celebrated and having your state still fly his flag? Not to mention, the mostly black police force pulling you over for driving while white. Stories and videos of unarmed white men being shot by these black policemen who are never charged, much less convicted. Does that sound fair now that you are in their shoes? He didnt even know how to respond, and up until then he had a response (Republican talking point) for everything. He is a small, but successful businessman, who believes that he has been victimized by the government. He doesn't understand that the big corporations have been using their influence to make small businesses pay much more of the tab for things while they get a pass. When I explained that I had been working with the local Chambers of Commerce all up and down the Gulf Coast who are learning, much to their dismay, that the national U.S. Chamber of Commerce filed an Amicus brief (friend of the Court) in support of BP against the victims of the BP oil spill, he didn't believe it at first. I know he is a big fan and active in our local chapter. I explained that those locals now know that the national organization doesn't care about them, only the big corporations with all of that money. He was scratching his head, but still a long way from understanding how badly he has been duped. He genuinely believes that Obama is the worst President ever and it is all of the "takers" that have ruined this country. I will lay it out more this weekend since he invited me to his beach cabin for his older brother coming in. We will have lots to talk about, especially since we cannot swim in the water due to the toxins and flesh eating bacteria that now show up when the water gets warm.
The sad thing is that he is actually a good man. I grew up with him and his siblings, but being here in Texas where the RW idiots assume any white person believes like they do, they feel free to talk and shout their politics as they assume all other whites believe as they do, at least until they meet me! Fox and Rush, Hannity, O'Reilly, Savage... have done their work well. These propagandist of hate and dissention are playing with fire!

[annabanana]

28. This is a VERY interesting post. I have one (little) editing suggestion though..

Break it up into paragraphs to make it easier to read.

[Dustlawyer]

31. Normally do when close to done, but got a call from my 78 year old mom who let

people into the house that wouldn't leave and called to get me to run home. I hit send on the way out of the office.

Turns out Kirby Vacume has people going around asking for people to take a brief survey so the young college girls with him can make $35 towards college. He left them there bringing in vacumes and crap!

[annabanana]

32. lol.. real life DOES get in the way sometimes!. . .n/t

[Orrex]

51. That's why nature abhors a vacuum

No, I haven't used that joke a thousand times before. Why do you ask?!?

[Demeter]

53. Isn't there a vacuum cleaner brand that sounds like your handle?

[Orrex]

55. That's why I abhor them.

They totally suck.

[Demeter]

57. Me too

Poor baby! Thanks for the LOL

[maddiemom]

63. Actually I find that I also tend to write one long paragraph when posting back and forth,

something Inever do anywhere else. I don't know why, especially since I'm a retired English teacher. I surely never let my kids do so, once they started to print out assignments. I don't mean that I'd do so in an actual "original post," but when I get into a dialog over a subject.

[annabanana]

68. maybe because

a post is more like a conversation, and the urge is to get it all out there while the thought is fresh!

[ananda]

22. So true.

I wonder how long this country's government will have
to keep kowtowing to "states rights"....

[Starry Messenger]

23. In 1964, a Confederate flag flew in front of SF City Hall

http://blog.sfgate.com/thebigevent/2015/06/21/in-1964-a-confederate-flag-flew-in-front-of-sf-city-hall/

"As I spend the year writing about 150 years of history in San Francisco, there are two things that seem to be most shocking to younger residents and transplants: 1) Not that long ago, there used to be an amusement park on Ocean Beach; and 2) Not that long ago, San Francisco was pretty conservative.

For all but six years from 1912 to 1970, San Francisco had a Republican mayor. The 1956 and 1964 Republican conventions were held at the Cow Palace. And for at least a few weeks in the summer of 1964, San Francisco city leaders allowed a Confederate flag to fly in front of San Francisco City Hall.

It was not on the main flagpole (thankfully), but the “Pavilion of American Flags” across the street in the Civic Center Plaza. The Confederate flag was one of 18 flags representing U.S., California and San Francisco history. There was also a plaque at the bottom of the pole, explaining that it was contributed by the United Daughters of the Confederacy."

<snip>

[appalachiablue]

66. I know it's true but but many people would have a hard time believing it, unfortunately.

[potone]

24. Yep.

State's rights is a code term for racism.

[Nitram]

74. Always has been.

Where were states' rights when the Supreme Court refused to let Florida honor its own constitution by re-counting ballots?

[KoKo]

25. Recommend!

[Rex]

26. I am glad someone finally had the guts to say it!

It is about segregation and going back to Jim Crow days.

[appalachiablue]

27. K & R! Ken Burns the brilliant documentary historian ges it 100% correct. It was about

slavery and the southern, South Carolina Slavocracy. So glad I had the chance to meet Burns after a lecture on the Brooklyn Bridge he gave when I worked at the National Archives. He autographed my big Civil War Series companion book and was so nice.




*ETA: I wish there was some way to put this in the Video Section so it makes the Front Page. Any way Skinner?

[wendylaroux]

29. BINGO!

and that is all there is to that.

[rufus dog]

30. I will file this one in

My No Shit Sherlock folder.

[Baitball Blogger]

33. K&R

On the shiny top of the nail.

[SunSeeker]

34. Republicans are always trying to rewrite history. nt

[FiveGoodMen]

35. Heritage is a word I do not understand.

I'm not to blame for what others did before me.

AND I can't take any credit for what they did.

So what's there to be proud of (or for that matter, ashamed of unless you're carrying on the tradition)?

[BrotherIvan]

38. Well fucking said

[Cha]

39. Thanks Skinner.. how true.

[AuntPatsy]

40. Kicking

[Hekate]

41. KnR

[stage left]

42. K&Rnt

[Bluenorthwest]

43. I find the use of the word 'heritage' itself to be loaded with bad intent, as the actual meaning

relates not to history but to birthright, inheritance, a heritage is that which is or can be inherited. A slave's heritage was to be the heritage of the masters, that is the state of slavery was a state one inherited, and whites could pass slaves along with other property as a heritage.
The term 'our national heritage' does not mean 'our national history' it means that which is ours by right of being born in the nation, which includes citizenship, the Constitution and institutions, infrastructures and also the history, but not just the history.
So heritage: 'it's not about slavery, it's about property and status that can be inherited'. They could have just said 'it's part of our history' but the word of choice was 'heritage'. Which is at it's root and in reality a word about property and class.

[nikto]

44. What's in a flag?

[Iliyah]

45. K & R

[MisterP]

46. 'specially since it's always the naval flag ...

[blackspade]

47. K&R

[octoberlib]

50. Excellent post. Thanks, skinner!

[Demeter]

52. It's about keeping people in their places...under white man's heel

White man's been a heel to everyone....

[lovemydog]

54. Amazing article in The Atlantic.

What This Cruel War Was Over
The meaning of the Confederate flag is best discerned in the words of those who bore it.
TA-NEHISI COATES

Roof’s belief that black life had no purpose beyond subjugation is “sick and twisted” in the exact same manner as the beliefs of those who created the Confederate flag were “sick and twisted.” The Confederate flag is directly tied to the Confederate cause, and the Confederate cause was white supremacy. This claim is not the result of revisionism. It does not require reading between the lines. It is the plain meaning of the words of those who bore the Confederate flag across history. These words must never be forgotten. Over the next few months the word “heritage” will be repeatedly invoked. It would be derelict to not examine the exact contents of that heritage.

This examination should begin in South Carolina, the site of our present and past catastrophe. South Carolina was the first state to secede, two months after the election of Abraham Lincoln. It was in South Carolina that the Civil War began, when the Confederacy fired on Fort Sumter. The state’s casus belli was neither vague nor hard to comprehend:

...A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that “Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free,” and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction. This sectional combination for the submersion of the Constitution, has been aided in some of the States by elevating to citizenship, persons who, by the supreme law of the land, are incapable of becoming citizens; and their votes have been used to inaugurate a new policy, hostile to the South, and destructive of its beliefs and safety.

In citing slavery, South Carolina was less an outlier than a leader, setting the tone for other states.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/what-this-cruel-war-was-over/396482/

[Octafish]

56. Slavery is one human being owning and using another human being as capital.

Can't get more greedy than that and it makes plain the hypocrisy at the heart of modern conservatism.

[HFRN]

58. that's why I've always found the term 'Human Resources' a degrading name

for a department once known as 'Personnel', a far more respectful name

[Octafish]

60. Absolutely: Resources are for extraction and exploitation.

Ask any Republican -- especially one who seems to always get out of the market just in time.

[ileus]

59. What about Virginians celebration of Lee-Jackson day just before MLK day.

IMHO this is a gouge in the eye to civil rights and shouldn't be the case in Virginia. Giving folks a 4 day weekend where they're supposed to celebrate their Southern Heritage on Friday, and civil rights icon MLK on Monday.


Where's Terry on this one???

[AikidoSoul]

61. Totally agree with Burn's statement.

Hate obfuscates reason.

There will be a resurgence of confederate flags though, from the many who have become infuriated over the large number of government officials who have urged that the confed. flag be removed from government properties in a large number of states.

But.... saying that, it seems reasonable to expect that by doing so, they will further expose themselves as persons seething with anger and hate.

[Dont call me Shirley]

62. It's about the continuation of slavery, fear and bigotry (Dark Age thinking)

Enslaving others is wrong. Instilling fear in others is wrong. Hating others (bigotry) so subjugation can be justified is wrong.

We are all one race, the human race. We've got to KNOW that in order to evolve beyond those slavery-fear-bigotry states of wrong thought and action.

[William769]

64. Kick and highly recommended!

[BlancheSplanchnik]

67. If it WEREN'T about resistance to Civil Rights, the wavers wouldn't have the ugly attitude.

They always have a "yeah, look at me, and you can't do a thing about it, cuz I can do whatever I want (I'm drunk), and I'd love an excuse to blow your head off" vibe.

[Third Doctor]

69. I just a avoided arguing with a Civil War revisionist

on Youtube. I knew that there was no way I would ever convince him other wise and he was not going to move me. I'm tired of people that will not accept history for what it is. States right and freedom? Their rights and freedom, to do what exactly? The only people in chains were their slaves. It was explicitly stated why they were seceding. There were several reasons but slavery and southern economics was a big part one. I'm IN the south.

[libodem]

71. .

[merrily]

73. Yup.

Initially, it was about seceding from the USA over extending slavery to the territories.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026478269#post1

It was resurrected in defiance against ending Jim Crow.

Enough romanticizing any of that.