HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Malaysia: HISTORIC JUDGME...

Sat May 12, 2012, 11:43 AM

Malaysia: HISTORIC JUDGMENT. Bush & Associates Found Guilty of Torture

BREAKING: HISTORIC JUDGMENT. Bush & Associates Found Guilty of Torture
Global Research, May 12, 2012

The five-panel tribunal unanimously delivered a guilty verdict against former United States President George W. Bush and his associates at the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Tribunal hearing that had started on Monday, May 7th.

On the charge of Crime of Torture and War Crimes, the tribunal finds the accused persons former U.S. President George W. Bush and his associates namely Richard Cheney, former U.S. Vice President, Donald Rumsfeld, former Defence Secretary, Alberto Gonzales, then Counsel to President Bush, David Addington, then General Counsel to the Vice-President, William Haynes II, then General Counsel to Secretary of Defence, Jay Bybee, then Assistant Attorney General, and John Choon Yoo, former Deputy Assistant Attorney-General guilty as charged and convicted as war criminals for Torture and Cruel, Inhumane and Degrading Treatment of the Complainant War Crime Victims.

Earlier in the week, the tribunal heard the testimonies of three witnesses namely Abbas Abid, Moazzam Begg and Jameelah Hameedi. They related the horrific tortures they had faced during their incarceration. The tribunal also heard two other Statutory Declarations of Iraqi citizen Ali Shalal and Rhuhel Ahmed, a British citizen.

Testimony showed that Abbas Abid, a 48-year-old chief engineer in the Science and Technology Ministry had his fingernails removed by pliers. Ali Shalal was attached with bare electrical wires and electrocuted and hung from the wall. Moazzam Begg was beaten and put in solitary confinement. Jameelah was almost nude and humiliated, used as a human shield whilst being transported by helicopter. All these witnesses have residual injuries till today. ...

Full article:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=30816

109 replies, 11107 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 109 replies Author Time Post
Reply Malaysia: HISTORIC JUDGMENT. Bush & Associates Found Guilty of Torture (Original post)
think May 2012 OP
Angry Dragon May 2012 #1
cali May 2012 #2
think May 2012 #4
cali May 2012 #5
think May 2012 #10
think May 2012 #12
cali May 2012 #32
think May 2012 #39
stevenleser May 2012 #26
cali May 2012 #33
tcaudilllg May 2012 #27
cali May 2012 #34
coalition_unwilling May 2012 #29
sabrina 1 May 2012 #50
Cave_Johnson May 2012 #69
cali May 2012 #94
sabrina 1 May 2012 #108
Swagman May 2012 #82
cali May 2012 #95
jberryhill May 2012 #98
Zalatix May 2012 #87
lonestarnot May 2012 #3
duhneece May 2012 #6
cali May 2012 #7
on point May 2012 #8
Dragonfli May 2012 #13
xiamiam May 2012 #23
Dragonfli May 2012 #61
AnotherMcIntosh May 2012 #21
Voice for Peace May 2012 #9
think May 2012 #11
Voice for Peace May 2012 #14
cali May 2012 #15
on point May 2012 #16
cali May 2012 #19
Dragonfli May 2012 #74
on point May 2012 #17
Dragonfli May 2012 #81
RZM May 2012 #18
Dragonfli May 2012 #75
Swagman May 2012 #85
cali May 2012 #96
RZM May 2012 #20
think May 2012 #25
RZM May 2012 #42
think May 2012 #46
RZM May 2012 #48
Dragonfli May 2012 #62
RZM May 2012 #66
Dragonfli May 2012 #67
Dragonfli May 2012 #76
xiamiam May 2012 #22
Dragonfli May 2012 #73
Scuba May 2012 #24
grantcart May 2012 #28
RobertEarl May 2012 #30
cali May 2012 #37
grantcart May 2012 #49
RobertEarl May 2012 #52
grantcart May 2012 #55
RobertEarl May 2012 #58
grantcart May 2012 #60
Dragonfli May 2012 #63
grantcart May 2012 #104
Dragonfli May 2012 #106
grantcart May 2012 #107
cali May 2012 #31
RobertEarl May 2012 #35
cali May 2012 #38
Dragonfli May 2012 #90
Dragonfli May 2012 #91
maddezmom May 2012 #36
think May 2012 #40
cali May 2012 #41
think May 2012 #44
cali May 2012 #51
RZM May 2012 #43
think May 2012 #45
grantcart May 2012 #47
Johnny Rico May 2012 #65
Swagman May 2012 #86
grantcart May 2012 #105
demosincebirth May 2012 #53
cali May 2012 #54
demosincebirth May 2012 #70
BanTheGOP May 2012 #56
cali May 2012 #57
think May 2012 #59
Johnny Rico May 2012 #64
Swede Atlanta May 2012 #68
PatrynXX May 2012 #71
Dragonfli May 2012 #72
bluesbassman May 2012 #77
Dragonfli May 2012 #78
bluesbassman May 2012 #79
Dragonfli May 2012 #80
bluesbassman May 2012 #83
Dragonfli May 2012 #84
cali May 2012 #93
TomClash May 2012 #88
chknltl May 2012 #89
malthaussen May 2012 #92
Dragonfli May 2012 #100
malthaussen May 2012 #101
Dragonfli May 2012 #103
spanone May 2012 #97
dreampunk May 2012 #99
Dragonfli May 2012 #102
L. Coyote May 2012 #109

Response to think (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2012, 11:47 AM

1. The US should require all these people to come to DC

so they can be transported to Malaysia to answer to these charges
I am sure they will get as fair trial as they deserve ..........


JUSTICE for ALL

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to think (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2012, 11:48 AM

2. show trials suck (and they scare me)

and that includes show trials where the verdict is one I agree with.

This sham lasted all of 3 days and there was no defense.

I'll say it again: Show trials suck.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cali (Reply #2)

Sat May 12, 2012, 12:04 PM

4. Tell that to the guy who had his fingernails ripped out

This tribunal's decision does nothing but shed light on crimes that have gone unpunished.

The crimes committed in our name concern me much more than a "show trial".

The findings are non binding so Bush and his cabal of gangsters have nothing to fear except the embarrassment of being publicly shamed for their crimes.

Sorry to disagree but I hope this leads to something substantive so that we do not see a repeat of these actions. I NEVER want to see the US government involved in war crimes again.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to think (Reply #4)

Sat May 12, 2012, 12:07 PM

5. I'll tell that to anyone- albeit more gently to the guy

who had his fingernails ripped out.

Show trials suck.

Always.

And why put show trial in quotation marks? It was clearly a show trial.

And no, of course this won't lead to something more substantive.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cali (Reply #5)

Sat May 12, 2012, 12:38 PM

10. You going to give him a real trial and justice?

So a tribunal was formed and they have made a statement condemning torture.

No one is going to the gallows do to this decision nor will anyone be arrested , shot or put in jail. Nor should this tribunal be the basis for it. I would agree that would be totally inappropriate and would be against any suggestion that it should be.

This tribunal decision is purely a statement on the events that occurred and that is all.

Will it put these crimes back in the international spotlight and remind the people of what occurred even though no one will do anything about it. I sure hope so. This is the substantive results I am hoping for. It's not like I expect to see Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld being lead away in handcuffs because of this verdict.

So until there is a REAL CRIMINAL trial I guess I take comfort in knowing people still give a damn about what those bastards did by forming a tribunal, investigating what happened, and making a statement in regards to it.

Hell, Rumsfeld came right out on TV and said he was going to ignore the Geneva conventions ban on torture. These guys felt they could do whatever they wanted to. One look at the pictures from Abu Ghraib should show that we were operating outside the realm of international law and the Geneva Convention.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cali (Reply #5)

Sat May 12, 2012, 12:48 PM

12. Show trial are your words for the tribunal not mine

That's why I put them in parentheses as I don't call it that. I'd prefer to call it the findings of a non binding tribunal.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to think (Reply #12)

Sat May 12, 2012, 02:30 PM

32. lol!

yes, yes. it's a non-binding tribunal.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cali (Reply #32)

Sat May 12, 2012, 02:42 PM

39. Is their resolution binding or not?

you can laugh at my wording but you knew what I meant.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cali (Reply #2)

Sat May 12, 2012, 01:51 PM

26. I understand how you feel Cali but a lot of trials in absentia could fall under this category

I dont have a problem with this assuming that the accused/convicted were offered the chance to defend themselves or are afforded a more complete trial upon their capture.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to stevenleser (Reply #26)

Sat May 12, 2012, 02:33 PM

33. no, sorry. this is so obviously a show trial- and read grantcart's post.

and those on this tribunal are a sorry lot.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cali (Reply #2)


Response to tcaudilllg (Reply #27)

Sat May 12, 2012, 02:35 PM

34. what, pray tell, you little genius you, is a conflict-prevention obsessed twit?

do tell dumpling. I'm waiting with bated breath.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cali (Reply #2)

Sat May 12, 2012, 02:10 PM

29. Much as I despise the Bush and Cheney Junta, I must

 

albeit reluctantly agree with you. This represents a mockery of due process.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cali (Reply #2)

Sat May 12, 2012, 03:12 PM

50. The trials should have been held here. But as everyone predicted, if the US will not

deal with its War Criminals, others will. Too many victims for these crimes ever to be forgotten. Many of the victims have attempted to get justice before US Courts, all have been denied

I have no problem with delivering a message to torturers everywhere that while your own governments may help cover up your crimes and attempt to bury them hoping they will be forgotten, the victims and their loved ones will never stop seeking justice, even if it takes decades, nor should they.

I don't know why you call it a 'show trial'. It was a trial, there were victims giving testimony. The accused could have appeared and defended themselves. Why didn't they?

But most importantly, why is it necessary for other countries, like Spain eg, to deal with these criminals? That was the responsibility of the US but not only have they failed in their duty, they have, we know from Wikileaks, attempted to pressure others from stepping in where they have refused to act. So we know for sure, the US approves of torture, therefore it is the job of others to attempt to get some kind of justice.

Good for anyone who holds these torturers accountable.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #50)

Sat May 12, 2012, 11:22 PM

69. It's not holding anyone accountable...

 

It's the same as if three guys on a street corner said "We find George Bush guilty"

It doesn't mean squat...

Why give it validity?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #50)

Sun May 13, 2012, 08:44 AM

94. no. The Hague is the appropriate place for trying them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cali (Reply #94)

Sun May 13, 2012, 05:43 PM

108. Guess you didn't read the Wikileaks cables then.

The US will never allow them to be tried at that Hague as was pretty clear in those cables.

Which is why this happened. And Spain is still planning prosecutions.

Anything that reminds the world of these crimes, is a good thing. And each time another country prosecutes them, which will most likely happen, that is one more place they cannot travel to without risk of being arrested.

It's symbolic, which is more than we got here. Until the US takes responsibility for those crimes, there is nothing we can do or say about other countries, whose citizens were kidnapped and tortured, in some cases murdered, doing what they do.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cali (Reply #2)

Sun May 13, 2012, 03:32 AM

82. "show trial" is a slur on Malaysia and those on the Tribunal

in what way was this a 'show trial' anymore than any other tribunal or trial?

You could say any trial in the USA is a show trial especially as they allow cameras in the court.

Go to the Tribunal's website and read the testimony..the defence didn't bother to show up. What trial could ever happen if the defence just refused to show and that was the basis for not going ahead?



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Swagman (Reply #82)

Sun May 13, 2012, 08:46 AM

95. those on the tribunal are pretty damned dirty themselves.

and it wasn't a real trial. It's has exactly zero credibility.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Swagman (Reply #82)

Sun May 13, 2012, 11:03 AM

98. Fuck the Malaysian legal system

"A slur on Malaysia" my ass. Do you know what their courts do to gay people?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cali (Reply #2)

Sun May 13, 2012, 04:05 AM

87. At least they didn't send a drone to perform a summary execution.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to think (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2012, 12:03 PM

3. And how bushitler can ride mountain bikes with catastrophically injured vets and be any kind of

welcomed is well go figure. Maybe they are just waiting for the right angle.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to think (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2012, 12:12 PM

6. This is good!!! This is very good...

I love seeing justice. I hope to thank them somehow.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to duhneece (Reply #6)

Sat May 12, 2012, 12:13 PM

7. how is a show trial justice?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to think (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2012, 12:27 PM

8. Now if we only had a president with guts who understood the law to put these criminals in jail...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to on point (Reply #8)

Sat May 12, 2012, 12:52 PM

13. He is a smart man but needs to sue the University he recieved his law degee from

He appears to think either, war crimes are legal or you can only go after war criminals that have not YET committed crimes as past crimes don't count or something, very bad law school.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Reply #13)

Sat May 12, 2012, 01:25 PM

23. complicit by looking forward imo..that is how history will judge i think..nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to xiamiam (Reply #23)

Sat May 12, 2012, 06:54 PM

61. I call it the "pre-cog" defense as you can only charge someone before the crime

as per that Tom Cruise movie.

I wonder if that defense will be used by lawyers in the future, it is a rather strange legal opinion and defense (and when exactly did they hire him as their defense lawyer to put forth such a weird defense?).

I have never heard of such a defense for high crimes before, but then again, I am not a law scholar.
And it did work, they didn't even get probation.

Too bad the law is not so kind to those that steal food and end up in jail, it appears to only apply to torture murder and mass murder, the highest of crimes. Not so much for they hungry that steal or the sick that smoke a piece of a plant, they get the full force of law against them. Strange lehal system, or strange legal scholar, one or the other exists here (perhaps both).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to on point (Reply #8)

Sat May 12, 2012, 01:19 PM

21. Yea, well

 

1. He will get to your pet issue in his second term.
2. We have to be patient.
3. He's a chess master.
4. He can't fix everything at once.
5. He doesn't have a magic wand.
6. He's only been in office _____ months.
7. Obviously, you were never a real Democrat.
8. He doesn't have the votes.
9. It's the fault of the liberals and progressives who didn't elect enough Senators and Representatives in the mid-terms.
10. Would you rather see Rmoney as the President.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to think (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2012, 12:33 PM

9. here's a little outdated information on the KLWCC

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Voice for Peace (Reply #9)

Sat May 12, 2012, 12:40 PM

11. Thank you for the background info /nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to think (Reply #11)

Sat May 12, 2012, 12:55 PM

14. It's a good effort on their part. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to think (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2012, 12:59 PM

15. The man who established this "trial" is a hateful bigot

people cheering this idiocy are tools.

Mahathir's public remarks about Jews date back as early as 1970 when he wrote in his controversial book The Malay Dilemma: "The Jews for example are not merely hook-nosed, but understand money instinctively."

In 1997, during the financial crisis, he attributed the collapse of the Malaysian ringgit to a conspiracy of Jews against a prosperous Muslim state: "The Jews robbed the Palestinians of everything, but in Malaysia they could not do so, hence they do this, depress the ringgit." Under strong international criticism, he issued a partial retraction, but not in Malay-language media sources.

On 16 October 2003, shortly before he stepped down as prime minister, Mahathir said during a summit for the Organisation of the Islamic Conference (OIC) in Putrajaya, that:
“ We are actually very strong, 1.3 billion people cannot be simply wiped out. The Nazis killed 6 million Jews out of 12 million . But today the Jews rule the world by proxy. They get others to fight and die for them. They invented socialism, communism, human rights and democracy so that persecuting them would appear to be wrong so they may enjoy equal rights with others. With these they have now gained control of the most powerful countries. And they, this tiny community, have become a world power.

<snip>

Statements on the Holocaust and Israel

In January 2010, at The General Conference For The Support of Al Quds, Mahathir stated, regarding the Holocaust and Israel, that:

“The Jews had always been a problem in European countries. They had to be confined to ghettoes and periodically massacred. But still they remained, they thrived and they held whole Governments to ransom...Even after their massacre by the Nazis of Germany, survived to continue to be a source of even greater problems for the world...The Holocaust failed as a final solution.”

Mahathir also stated that:

"Creating a state for them was thought to be a better solution. It could be if some European territory had been allocated to make a permanent ghetto for the Jews. But of course if this was done then the affected European state would rise in arms and kill all the Jews the way they had been doing before. So the debate was about creating an Israeli state in Uganda, Africa, or somewhere in Latin America or Palestine of course."
<snip>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahathir_Mohamad#Statements_on_the_Holocaust_and_Israel

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cali (Reply #15)

Sat May 12, 2012, 01:03 PM

16. The FACTS are these people tortured others. The source doesn't diminish the truth

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to on point (Reply #16)

Sat May 12, 2012, 01:11 PM

19. how you or i feel is not the frickin' point

the point is that this is a sham trial.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cali (Reply #19)

Sun May 13, 2012, 01:24 AM

74. No harm, no foul, I agree, time to look forward from such minor offenses.

What about looking forward don't these people understand?

It is the only right thing to do, we really should follow our party on this, not some less than human island dwellers looking to start shit!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cali (Reply #15)

Sat May 12, 2012, 01:07 PM

17. I would rather have applauded Obama in yr 1 of his presidency

but he tried to hide from the truth and never had the backbone and leadership to do what is right in the United States according to the law, thus making it possible for these crimes to be committed yet again by American leadership, hurting our standing in the world and leaving a window of opportunity for others to gather the garlands he could have received

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to on point (Reply #17)

Sun May 13, 2012, 03:09 AM

81. Blasphemy! He did the right thing, no one that was fully human was hurt, we should look forward

The rule of law was not meant for the upper class, or the political class, I stand by his correct decision to keep them from the lowlifes that thought such elevated men should even be remotely bound by rule of law.

I am alerting. You appear to be a Right wing troll.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cali (Reply #15)

Sat May 12, 2012, 01:07 PM

18. Back when this 'trial' started, I read the same Wikipedia article

 

And I agree that this guy is a hateful asshole.

It's very telling that he refused to apologize for his 1997 remarks in the Malay media. He clearly still believes this stuff and wants as many of his countrymen to believe it as well.

I have no interest in the moral pronouncements of this fuckhead. He has zero credibility in my book.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RZM (Reply #18)

Sun May 13, 2012, 01:26 AM

75. He needs to look forward, we can forgive anything done to enemies and we rightly should. /nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cali (Reply #15)

Sun May 13, 2012, 03:45 AM

85. so you infer that the learned personnel on the Tribunal cannot be taken seriously

because of what one man said.

Mahathir is wrong on mnay things and is a rogue but he is entirely correct when he says Hague ignores the war crimes of Israel, the USA and UK and all it's allies.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Swagman (Reply #85)

Sun May 13, 2012, 08:48 AM

96. no, I know that they're not to taken seriously. and other than some

idiots, they aren't. duh.

And it's not just what one man said. Malaysia is rife with human rights abuses.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to think (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2012, 01:13 PM

20. LOL. 'Historic Judgment?'

 

You realize that this wasn't a real trial, right?

It's about as historic as the verdict in the mock trial we held in my 12th grade civics class.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RZM (Reply #20)

Sat May 12, 2012, 01:49 PM

25. Their headline not mine. /nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to think (Reply #25)

Sat May 12, 2012, 02:56 PM

42. I guess that's not surprising as the story comes from Global Research

 

That site has a lot of bullshit on it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RZM (Reply #42)

Sat May 12, 2012, 03:06 PM

46. Do you believe torture occurred under Bush or not?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to think (Reply #46)

Sat May 12, 2012, 03:09 PM

48. Do you believe that choosy moms choose Jif or not?

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RZM (Reply #48)

Sat May 12, 2012, 07:05 PM

62. There have been choosy moms that have admitted to that, there are also books admitting to torture

It appears you do not know how to answer either question (too hard to understand perhaps), I will answer for you so you can learn, Choosy moms have admitted in public to choosing Jif, those mothers are guilty by their own admission of doing so.

Some of the Torturers (like Dick Cheney) have written books admitting proudly that they have committed what is and always has been prior to Bush's actions classified as torture, those that admitted the crimes are at the very least guilty, now in countries that have an actual rule of law in place, investigations would likely start with the confession and after the investigation, other guilty parties would likely also be charged.

We appear to have a two tiered legal system wherein the political class can break any laws they wish and not be charged or investigated even after a confession (even for murder and torture).

Not so of an underclass that can go to prison for stealing bread to eat or ingesting a plant to help them eat during chemo. Kind of third world, but what the hell right?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Reply #62)

Sat May 12, 2012, 07:33 PM

66. Too hard to understand?

 

LOL. It's not that hard. I was just having a little fun with the grand inquisitor.

We've had 10 years of these issues being in the news. It's not difficult to put it all together.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RZM (Reply #66)

Sat May 12, 2012, 07:46 PM

67. Ok. I have been known to be a bit playful with posts myself

So I can understand what you are saying.

It is rather dumbfounding you have to admit that we are all supposed to pretend that crimes were never committed, even as we are told the "pre-cog" defense of a crime is a valid legal argument (the argument that claims we should not charge criminals who's crimes were committed in the past, leaving only future as yet committed crimes to pursue). That "pre-cog" defense is really spectacular and unexpected in today's legal system IMO.

I suppose I should just get used to the fact that we are no longer a country of laws, but rather men. I was taught so very differently 45 years ago in school, the opposite in fact.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RZM (Reply #20)

Sun May 13, 2012, 01:27 AM

76. Historically on the wrong side of history, how dare they try a man exonerated!!!!! /nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to think (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2012, 01:21 PM

22. fingernails removed? omg...nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to xiamiam (Reply #22)

Sun May 13, 2012, 01:12 AM

73. It is a minor irritation, please it's time to look forward, that is the right thing to do /nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to think (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2012, 01:43 PM

24. Dear George, on behalf of all of us, please accept this gift, one-way air tickets to Kuala Lampur.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to think (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2012, 02:05 PM

28. Before people jump for joy you should realize that the Malaysian judiciary is the laughing stock


of Asia.

And that is in an area that doesn't consider judiciary independence a serious issue.

The Malaysian judiciary lost its last final thread of respect when they convicted Anwar ibrahim, a rising political reformer, of political sodomy (he had served as high as Finance Minister in the government).

Anwar is not gay but this is the final insult that you can do to a politician in the homophobic Malaysia political scene.

You can read about Ibrahim's trials here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_Ibrahim

No judiciary in the world gives any weight to what the Malaysian judiciary says about anything.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to grantcart (Reply #28)

Sat May 12, 2012, 02:15 PM

30. Oh?

And here we pass laws forbidding gay marriage and put people in jail for possession of a weed. Some justice we have, eh?

Not to mention that everyone knows we now torture and get away with it.

And somehow that gives you the right to moan and piss about some Malaysian hardly anyone ever heard of before?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RobertEarl (Reply #30)

Sat May 12, 2012, 02:37 PM

37. wow. there's a bullshit comparison.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RobertEarl (Reply #30)

Sat May 12, 2012, 03:10 PM

49. Anwar Ibrahim is known to about 300 million people


Most educated people in Asia,

All of Indonesia

All of Malaysia

All Islamic Reformers

All Human rights activists around the world

and so on.

He was not an obscure politician. Under the Malay system he was disgnated to become the next Prime Minister of Malaysia, he served as Finance Minister.

The attacks on him were front page news for years.

Read and learn.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to grantcart (Reply #49)

Sat May 12, 2012, 03:19 PM

52. Ok

Ya know what? More people know Obama and attacks on him are all over the news, too.

No.... what you are doing is attacking the messenger.

The message is being lost in your attack and do you know what the message is? HUh? Do you? Can you fess up and tell us what the message is?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RobertEarl (Reply #52)

Sat May 12, 2012, 03:34 PM

55. Well we are moving in the right direction


We have moved from the ignorant statement of


And somehow that gives you the right to moan and piss about some Malaysian hardly anyone ever heard of before?


to the irrelevent observation that


More people know Obama and attacks on him are all over the news, too.


(To clue you in the number of people that knew about the show trial of Anwar Ibrahim is irrelevent the relevent point is that Malaysia is known for having show trials for political reasons)

You did ask this question



The message is being lost in your attack and do you know what the message is? HUh? Do you? Can you fess up and tell us what the message is?



I never attacked anyone. I informed. I lived in Asia for 20 years and had a diplomatic posting in Malaysia. I like Malaysians and liked most of the people I worked with. I am not attacking either the OP or the people or government of Malaysia. I am relating relevent facts that you can absorb and use to inform your world view or you can continue with an irrelevent line of hyperbolic nonsense and expose to the few dozen people reading this thread the the fact that you get so committed to a particular point that you cannot absorb new relevent information that might have a bearing.

Now what is relevent about the trial of Anwar Ibrahim to this point? Asia doesn't usually engage in show trials. Even China will have a 5 minute trial behind closed doors when it wants to dispatch a foe to the regime.

Malaysia's judiciary is unique in that they were used by the Prime Minister as a lap dog on what is widely considered the most ridiculous show trial in Asia over the last 40 years in which a respected reformer was humiliated with false charges of sodomy in order to try and eliminate him as a political force. They are still using these false charges today to keep him from power.

So for people that are not aware of what is happening in Malaysia you can go ahead and make a big deal out of it. If however you intend to communicate with anyone who is aware of what is happening in Malaysia then you actually will be undermining your case that this is legitimate because there is a great deal of scorn and anger, especially among progressives, against the Malaysian judiciary.

Upthread someone states people will not listen because the "enemy of my enemy is my friend".

To that I paraphrase "beware of the enemy of your enemy because sometimes they are batshit crazy and using them as a source will make some people think that your point of view is as flawed as theirs".

Carry on.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to grantcart (Reply #55)

Sat May 12, 2012, 03:44 PM

58. yeah?

Wow, are you so stuck on denying that we have a justice system here that sucks, you are willing to write hundred plus word blah-blah to try and make it seem like it is not important that Bush and friends are disgraced by another government?

This is the message: Bush is guilty of torture.


Can you do a hundred words on that message? I bet you can. Try it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RobertEarl (Reply #58)

Sat May 12, 2012, 05:16 PM

60. I am going to have to involk the "I am not going to assist you in making


you look any more ridiculous than you already displayed despite your stubborn determination to continue to do so" rule.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to grantcart (Reply #60)

Sat May 12, 2012, 07:14 PM

63. One can only assume that you feel Bush and Cheney broke no laws when they tortured people

Is that due to tortured logic or lack of information about the fact that even they admit to acts of torture?

Or would you prefer we take torture laws right out of our books and make it legal?

Why can't you answer the direct questions already asked of you? Denial, or something more akin to a clinical insanity or diminished capacity.

Just curious.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Reply #63)

Sun May 13, 2012, 02:04 PM

104. One can only assume that you have problems reading above a 6th grade level.


I haven't referred to anything having to do with Bush/Cheney so any assumptions that you make are projections from unrelated matters that come from you. It is impossible to infer or deduct anything when I have made no statements about it.

I will now try to reduce what I was saying to the 6th grade level.

If you are going to make a case regarding human rights prosecution before you 'jump for joy' with any particular court's actions you should be aware of how serious that court is taken in the real world, and how they stand in protecting human rights.

In this case the rulings of the Malaysian Court is considered a laughing stock. This is not because courts in Asia are known for being independent on sensitive cases, quite the contrary. Other judiciaries in Asia do cave into political pressures (although the courts in Thailand have been independent and found against two Prime Minister's in a row). Its that when they cave they usually find some technicality and leave the stage quietly.

Now the Malaysian case is quite different.

They didn't just cave they became the instrument of persecution.

In other words they didn't cave to the wishes of Torquemada they were Torquemada.

On top of this they used homophobia in a way that shocked even conservatives by repeatedly trying to discredit an opponent with bogus sodomy charges.

You have a choice. You can absorb new facts that were previously outside of your experience into your point of view and strengthen your argument or you can continue to tell people how great the Malaysian Court is. People who know what the Malaysian courts are all about will come to the conclusion that you are generally not well informed and it will undermine your ability to make your case. Choice is yours.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to grantcart (Reply #104)

Sun May 13, 2012, 02:24 PM

106. Of course, you are right, I am an idiot, everyone that does not agree with you is

I did the required 180 on this issue anyway, so you can stop calling me names, I am now on board with everything my party says, does, or refuses to do.

I now agree with you, so you can consider me one of the more useful idiots

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Reply #106)

Sun May 13, 2012, 03:33 PM

107. No everyone who thinks that Malaysian Court is not a homophobic instrument that undermines

human rights is an idiot.

You are free to promote them to the heavens.

edited to add;

Out of curiousity I googled the source of this report and typed in Anwar Ibrahim.

Here, from the same publishers is an update on the situation of Ibrahim from April 29th.

They do neglect to detail that it is the Malaysian Judiciary that has been pursuing him with bogos sodomy charges, the rest is pretty accurate.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=30588

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to grantcart (Reply #28)

Sat May 12, 2012, 02:29 PM

31. alas, your post will fall on deaf ears

many of the responses in this thread and the recs, illustrate that old axiom "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"- and more.

It's not particularly heartening.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cali (Reply #31)

Sat May 12, 2012, 02:35 PM

35. Awwww

No. What is not heartening is that we can't get our shit together to put our criminals on trial. Instead, we have folks like you complaining that someone else is doing what we should be doing. That's pretty screwed up. Alas, Bush walks.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RobertEarl (Reply #35)

Sat May 12, 2012, 02:39 PM

38. the world is not a terribly just place.

If bush and co are tried anywhere it should be in the Hague.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cali (Reply #38)

Sun May 13, 2012, 04:32 AM

90. WE of course should not try them here, here they broke no laws

Everyone knows that.
The POTUS was very clear on this, they can only be held accountable if it was not in the past, this is standard constitutional law people! The only just course is to look forward.

They should not, and will not, be tried for crimes here, it has already been decided, I may not know all the law, but I know one thing, "lf the president does it, it isn't illegal" that goes for all his people and all those ordered to break the law by him and his people.

If you know history, you know we follow a rule of law first founded when Princes and Kings walked the british isles, the lords were never supposed to be subject to the laws of freemen and serfs.

You are absolutely correct, our laws have not been broken, for international bullshit laws that don't really count, the Hague is the only venue. If the Hague rules against our immunity, let them send troops to defeat our country as we protect our Royalty from the law of the savage outsiders!

I dare them!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RobertEarl (Reply #35)

Sun May 13, 2012, 04:33 AM

91. How dare you criticize the party!

Alert!! (TOS alert my friend)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to grantcart (Reply #28)

Sat May 12, 2012, 02:36 PM

36. thank you for posting this



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to grantcart (Reply #28)

Sat May 12, 2012, 02:48 PM

40. Then it is settled. Torture never happened under Bush. Thank you

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to think (Reply #40)

Sat May 12, 2012, 02:50 PM

41. yeah, that's what grantcart said.

jeeezus.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cali (Reply #41)

Sat May 12, 2012, 03:02 PM

44. Apparently it's not acceptable for Malaysians to investigate torture

and make a statement about it.

Their opinion doesn't matter because their justice system is not perfect.

good grief.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to think (Reply #44)

Sat May 12, 2012, 03:12 PM

51. what investigation. this was a done deal. and frankly, I don't play the idiot

game of the enemy of my enemy is my friend. That really is moronic. Something I prefer not to engage in.

You're being used, honey.

Congrats on that!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to think (Reply #40)

Sat May 12, 2012, 03:02 PM

43. If this verdict were produced in a real trial under a reputable justice system

 

That would be a different matter entirely.

But this was little more than a publicity stunt.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RZM (Reply #43)

Sat May 12, 2012, 03:04 PM

45. You mean like the US justice system? FAT CHANCE

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to think (Reply #40)

Sat May 12, 2012, 03:06 PM

47. lol no the court you cite is the same court that tried to ruin Malaysia's most popular


reform politician by the most obvious bogus homophobic charges of sodomy and were widely laughed at in Malaysia and outside.

Their support for the charges actually harms the international effort not help it.

You can now return to your line of thought that failed to follow the logic that the facts present.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to grantcart (Reply #28)

Sat May 12, 2012, 07:23 PM

65. +1

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to grantcart (Reply #28)

Sun May 13, 2012, 03:47 AM

86. you are wrong. There are brilliant and honest people in the Malaysian judiciary

please do now write off an entire nation on the actions of some.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Swagman (Reply #86)

Sun May 13, 2012, 02:17 PM

105. Again people unable to read very well.


Up thread I detail my affection for Malaysia, for the Malaysian people and for the Malaysian government.lay

Beyond that I was involved in secret operations with the Malaysian government.

But this time it was to help secure human rights not rob people of them.

After the Vietnam war and the collapse of the Khmer Rouge about a million refugees ended up in Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia. I worked in the refugee camps as chief of operations for the out take part of the operation between 1978 and 1985.

In Cambodia a remnant group of Muslims were found numbering about 5,000. They were starving and had no prospects for the future. Malaysia was approached and agreed to take them all under one condition. That it was kept secret. At the time they wanted to display a no exception policy to permanent resettlement. We moved them by train and it has never been reported. Last year I bumped into the Malaysian Counsel General from LA and asked him if had ever heard the story, he hadn't but he had some distant relatives that turned up from Cambodia at the time and always wondered about it.

Telling the truth about the prosecutions of Anwar is not a story that dishonors Malays. It honors them. Anwar was ultimately released and stood election. He was reelected overwhelmingly and was on the verge of becoming Prime Minister.

Enter the Malaysian Judiciary and new charges of sodomy.

To embrace this judiciary at this time is to embrace the absurd.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to think (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2012, 03:19 PM

53. It's kind of ironic from a country who still flogs people

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to demosincebirth (Reply #53)

Sat May 12, 2012, 03:25 PM

54. not to mention the scores of other serious human rights abuses.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cali (Reply #54)

Sat May 12, 2012, 11:31 PM

70. I started with the less serious.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to think (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2012, 03:40 PM

56. Actually, great news as now the entire republican Party can be tied to this conviction

 

This will provide our legal experts another weapon against the rethugs.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BanTheGOP (Reply #56)

Sat May 12, 2012, 03:44 PM

57. no it won't. that's utterly ridiculous-

not to mention less than brilliant.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cali (Reply #57)

Sat May 12, 2012, 03:45 PM

59. ...

Last edited Sat May 12, 2012, 06:21 PM - Edit history (1)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BanTheGOP (Reply #56)

Sat May 12, 2012, 07:21 PM

64. That's absurd.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to think (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2012, 10:47 PM

68. Guess Malaysia is off the book selling tours for Shrub and Darth...

Aww....how sad...they cannot peddle their hatred and stupidity in Malaysia.

The Malays are very smart and capable people. They inherited a legal system from the British. Obviously there is an element of Muslim influence but still...

Is Malaysia the first country to actually convict Shrub and Darth of any crimes against humanity?

Not sure but I'm sure they will never set foot in that beautiful country. Even the Secret Service could not prevent them from being taken into custody. I have no idea if they would be treated humanely. Guess that is up to the Malaysians to decide.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to think (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2012, 12:16 AM

71. another country they can't visit.....

speaking of states rights.. so maybe each state with their sharia law crap will adopt a law banning war criminals convicted in other countries from their states. (more than just one country.. say 5 top countries...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to think (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2012, 12:43 AM

72. After cruising Meta for the first time, I have to say, they are wrong to have opposed torture

If it were right our party would have done it.

I wish to remain a poster here so I gladly give all my support to the policy of men above laws that rightfully and sagely was put forth by Obama.

It is not only legal to look forward and refuse to prosecute criminals, it is also the right thing to do.
Ditto for civilian deaths (for whatever reason, their is nothing wrong with any war policy) unless we are told they are wrong by the White House.

I pledge loyalty and promise to stop criticizing what is GOOD policy. The definition of good policy will hence forth be "whatever the party says it is, unless they change their mind, then that is the good policy". That will be all I will post Forevermore

Forever more
Forever more..

(I think I see.. a... black.... bird..........)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Reply #72)

Sun May 13, 2012, 01:34 AM

77. My question to you then Dragonfli, is if you have to compromise your principles so far...

to be able to continue to post here, why do it at all?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bluesbassman (Reply #77)

Sun May 13, 2012, 01:55 AM

78. Because I have given up fighting for what is right, and decided all that is left is to fight

for the party, they have convinced me that it is nothing more than a sporting event, what is right be damned.
If that is true, all that is left is to pick a team and enjoy the ride towards our inevitable fascism.

I can't do it alone, the party does not care about Democratic principles anymore, all that is left is the game of getting more such unprincipled Democrats elected, that is our bread and our circus.

Alone, I can not change that and if I try to remind them of our principles I will be banned for opposing "our side", and will be called a Republican.

If there is no hope for anything I believe in, it is really just a game after all, I may as well enjoy the circus.

I am getting old, my party is no longer in existence, what else is left but to join the big joke that is the eternal struggle for the sake of a party that only cares about the same interests the other party cares about, at least this one will drop a few crumbs in the process.

The real struggle is over and FDR, LBJ, The Kennedys, they all lost, we follow policy now straight out of the Heritage Foundation and The US Chamber of Commerce, if I speak against it, I will be without a party.

Better to enjoy the circus and hope for a few crumbs I guess.
Just too old to and sick (Lymphoma) to bother fighting alone anymore for anything that is the right thing to do, but that, was abandoned by my party, little things, like the rule of law.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Reply #78)

Sun May 13, 2012, 02:23 AM

79. I'm sorry to hear of you illness, I wish you the best as you battle it.

I'm also sorry that you feel betrayed and have lost hope in your beliefs being addressed by our party. I wish I could tell you you're wrong about everything you said, but some of it is true. However, I believe we have to work with the tools at hand, to not do so would leave a vacuum that would surely be filled by powers far more odious than what we have to contend with. Change is inevitable, and if the change is to be of any benefit then rational and intelligent people like the majority of posters I see here at DU need to be a part of it.

We can make our future at least partially what we want it to be through reasoned participation, but if we forfeit our voice the future is guaranteed to be bleak.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bluesbassman (Reply #79)

Sun May 13, 2012, 02:37 AM

80. You don't get it, if the more intelligent posters here try reasoned participation

They will be banned for not sufficiently supporting right of center party views, it has become a quixotic irrational endeavor, we will be weeded out if we do not comply, that is what I learned in meta.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Reply #80)

Sun May 13, 2012, 03:38 AM

83. No, I do get it. There are plenty of posters here who voice their disagreement...

with the party's policies and actions. They just do it in a way that does not promote third party spoilers. Nor to they use talking points from the GOP, or refer to articles written for the express purpose of tearing down President Obama or any other democrat candidate.

I've been actively posting on this site for seven years this month, this ain't my first rodeo. Every election cycle we see the same thing, people want everybody to know how disappointed they are in the past performance of whatever democrat candidate is running. Well guess what, most people on this board already know those issues, they get discussed constantly, and will continue to be addressed and acted upon as time goes on. However, as we are endeavoring to wrest control away from a political party that has absolutely zero interest in any issue we care about, now is not the time to be throwing nails on the road.

You can do what you like Dragonfli, I get where you're coming from, but don't make the mistake of thinking that the rest of us are casting aside our concerns and beliefs just because we want to make sure that the GOP is defeated and not President Obama and the rest of the Democrats currently in an election cycle.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bluesbassman (Reply #83)

Sun May 13, 2012, 03:43 AM

84. They (politicians) ignore us once elected, only during elections do they care what we say

It is the only time to apply pressure and it would appear the only time we are to be silent, this is not my first rodeo either and the game is finally clear to me.

But, do what you must, and be surprised (all over again) by the same result of them ignoring us.

I have already given up as you know.

{on edit} It would appear we are both happy with nothing more than the bread and circus (even if the bread is little more than crumbs)
we shall both endorse bad policy by refusing to criticize such policy at the only time criticism is even heard, all to avoid the circus without even the crumbs

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Reply #80)

Sun May 13, 2012, 08:38 AM

93. lol. you flatter yourself, dear.

but you whinge with great proficiency. Perhaps you can take some solace in that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to think (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2012, 04:06 AM

88. Not much of a trial

But a helluva verdict.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to think (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2012, 04:21 AM

89. Afghanistan held a Tribunal vs Bush back in '04

Afghanistan held its Tribunal in Tokyo. The focus and charges were regarding President Bush's authorizing the use of WMD in Afghanistan.

"INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL TRIBUNAL FOR AFGHANISTAN AT TOKYO

Final Written Opinion of Judge Niloufer Bhagwat 10 March 2004

THE PEOPLE Versus GEORGE WALKER BUSH President of the United States of America"

more at link:

http://www.ratical.org/radiation/DU/ICTforAatT.html

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to think (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2012, 08:35 AM

92. "Ali Shalal was attached with bare electrical wires..."

"... and electrocuted and hung from the wall."

They used to call that the "Bell Telephone Hour" at the Hanoi Hilton.

What was it that madman Nietzsche said about fighting monsters?

-- Mal

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to malthaussen (Reply #92)

Sun May 13, 2012, 01:52 PM

100. Just a minor inconvienience, our President does not think anything done deserves

Prosecution, you are either with him or against him.

Make your choice, if you keep going against our POTUS
I will alert on you!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Reply #100)

Sun May 13, 2012, 01:57 PM

101. Fli, I share your outrage

But there is such a thing as beating a horse to death. Your knee-jerk response to knee-jerk responses make you look like...

-- Mal

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to malthaussen (Reply #101)

Sun May 13, 2012, 02:00 PM

103. You misunderstand me, I am now among the converted. I will jump on the bandwagon

And will defend my party against all slander.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to think (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2012, 08:53 AM

97. K&r...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to think (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2012, 12:34 PM

99. I'd love to see this tribunal end up at the real deal real soon...

show trial - nothing more, BUT hopefully will lead to the real thing real soon. We were taught (and believed with all our mind and hearts) that war crimes were worst thing possible. Then (recently) we witnessed them happening right in front of us via teevee and our "leaders" CHOSE to do nothing in response....wonder what's happened to the fabric of society? It aint the gay, and it aint the unions...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dreampunk (Reply #99)

Sun May 13, 2012, 01:58 PM

102. The Decision has been made, you are incorrect, there is nothing wrong with what happened

You are just an Obama hater, He made the choice and he is our leader, pick a side, if you do not choose him, you are working for Republicans. He knows the law and Torture is OK if done in the past.

Such crimes are not the worst thing possible, they are not even a misdemeanor, else the DOJ would have convicted those responsible

get over it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to think (Original post)

Wed May 16, 2012, 12:37 PM

109. VIDEO: Kuala Lumpur war tribunal finds Bush guilty of war crimes&#8206; - Press TV News

Kuala Lumpur war tribunal finds Bush guilty of war crimes‎ - Press TV News



X-POSTED Video & Multimedia Forum: http://www.democraticunderground.com/101728882

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread