Bernie Sanders: Sex article is like ‘50 Shades of Grey’

[workinclasszero]

Bernie Sanders: Sex article is like ‘50 Shades of Grey’

05/31/15 11:37 AM—UPDATED 05/31/15 11:50 AM By Anna Brand


Bernie Sanders called a graphic sex article he penned in the 1970s that was unearthed last week “very poorly written,” and compared it to the erotic romance novel “50 Shades of Grey.”

After staying silent for several days, the 2016 presidential candidate on “Meet the Press” Sunday addressed the controversial article.

“It was very poorly written and if you read it – what it was dealing with – gender stereotypes, why some men like to oppress women, why other women like to be submissive,” Sanders said.

“Something like ‘50 Shades of Grey,’” he added.

Host Chuck Todd only read one line from the essay, telling the Vermont senator “it’s uncomfortable to read.”

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/bernie-sanders-compares-his-sex-article-50-shades-grey

[Avalux]

1. I have no problem with the essay and Bernie's honest comments.

He was a kid, just like HRC in her Goldwater days. It's an interesting look at issues Bernie was trying to work out, theorizing on the mysteries of sexual behavior at a young age.

[seabeyond]

2. i thought he was 31, to her 16, 17? just stating facts. i have not made any comment at all

about the actual OP

irrelevant.

[Avalux]

4. You're right, he was older, and obtaining his master's degree.

Even still, I see it as an exercise for school, not a manifesto.

[ucrdem]

16. Could be but he polished it up and submitted it for publication. nt

[merrily]

86. He's six years older than Hillary.

[seabeyond]

87. ya. ok. so.

[Orrex]

5. "A young age?" WTF?

He wrote it in the 1970s. By that time he was definitely old enough to serve in the US House of Representatives and almost certainly old enough for the US Senate.

How old does one have to be before they're too old for us to play the "he was too young" card?

For the record, I think that this essay is absolutely irrelevant to Sanders' qualifications or his history of service, but dismissing it as "youthful indiscretion" is absurd.


Of course, if he were an unprincipled Rightwing predator, he could claim to have had a magical conversion moment that set him on the path to righteousness...

[Cheese Sandwich]

20. Yeah if the news story was even true

The old essay was criticizing rape culture attitudes like those on parade in 50 Shades.

If you watch the video he said he was criticizing gender stereotypes like the ones in 50 Shades of Grey.

If you read the essay that's exactly what it is too. It's poorly written, but that's clearly the topic.

[jwirr]

53. Absolutely.

[joeybee12]

100. If it's so poorly written how can it be obvious

that was Bernie's intent?

[beam me up scottie]

108. "The old essay was criticizing rape culture attitudes like those on parade in 50 Shades."

Thank you.

Just when you think Hillary supporters can't sink any lower...

[seabeyond]

140. Some newspaper guy reports, sanders people starts ops... No one gives a shit. Who are 'they'

[beam me up scottie]

143. Looks like you've got some fans here.

Did you pee on their cornflakes or something?

Awful lot of rude noise coming from people who claim they "like" Bernie.

[beam me up scottie]

150. Well apparently your penis interferes with your reading comprehension.

Because only certain members of the Official DU Feminist Brigade know how to correctly interpret the article.

[beam me up scottie]

155. Good cuz that wouldn't help.

At all.

[MoonRiver]

60. Reminds me of when news came out about dimson's drunk driving arrest

when he was in his 30's I think. All the Pukes said he was "just a kid" and therefore should be given a pass.

[seabeyond]

70. i call it cause of bush drugs in 40's. i hated that one. nt

[MoonRiver]

74. Was he in his 40s?

One good thing about the passage of time, is that I'm starting to forget about that POS.

[seabeyond]

77. i know. time as in we age, or time gone by? cause i use to know every detail about everything.

now i am lucky to hold onto a month ago.

lol

[MoonRiver]

78. I so know what you mean!

[seabeyond]

80. lol. you made me laugh. now. outta of this thread. didnt like the first four OPs on this. nt

[MoonRiver]

82. Gotta laugh!

After being in a perpetual state of rage during the dark days of bush, it's refreshing to just be arguing about Democrats!

[Scootaloo]

167. You're comparing satire to drunk driving?

[arcane1]

17. And the bizarre things that appeared in men's magazines at the time

Of course, that's all on video now

[pnwmom]

59. A thirty year old man is not the same as a high school kid.

He should have learned something in the meantime.

[seabeyond]

94. no. it does not. please stop going thru this thread, insisting it is a feminist piece.

[seabeyond]

131. Ya... Thru a man eye that was privileged and paternalistic. No mckinney

[seabeyond]

137. I know you can't cause you are seeing the piece as a man not a feminist... As you compare it to fems

[seabeyond]

149. Of course I did a week ago the first of now 6 ops on this. All brought to you by pro sanders

The threads mostly sank, now today people have declared him a great feminist and Clinton did it all, calling him a rapist.

As I said, written decades ago, working on gender role seen thru a mans eyes and interpreting women in an infantile and paternalistic manner.

You really want to break it down and have an argument about its worth in a feminist conversation? Or just say stupid, irrelevant and drop it!

[beam me up scottie]

146. So men can't be feminists? That's sexist.

I'm shocked seabeyond.

Shocked I tell ya.

[NaturalHigh]

183. Right, because men just aren't qualified to comment on such things.

[gollygee]

101. No it doesn't.

He's going for that theme, but ti doesn't read like Dworkin or MacKinnon.

[gollygee]

163. He writes from the point of view of a man

It sounds different and not because Dworkin "has a tendency to go off the rails."

[gollygee]

165. Yes we are in agreement there. n/t

[peecoolyour]

148. +1! It should help him capture some of the feminist vote

if they read beyond the headlines... and I expect they will, because feminists are usually critical thinkers.

[seabeyond]

151. Hey, there you go. Put it on his website to draw women. Like I say, brilliant

Do. See how it draws feminists like flies

[beam me up scottie]

159. It is, isn't it?

FEMINISTS FOR BERNIE!!!

[BreakfastClub]

180. 50 Shades isn't a feminist piece. Sorry. NT

[joeybee12]

99. 30 is a kid?

[uponit7771]

178. 31 is not a kid!!

[Nye Bevan]

3. Ummmm.... not sure that's helping, Bernie.

Last edited Sun May 31, 2015, 02:49 PM - Edit history (1)

Just imagine the 200-post epic threads we would be seeing on DU if the article had been written by Ted Cruz or Jim-Bob Duggar.

[seabeyond]

6. or hillary. OMG.... lol. nt

[ucrdem]

9. Or Bill. Or Barack.

Or Eric Holder . . .

[seabeyond]

11. could you imagine what would happen with obama? that would turn ugly, fast. nt

[ucrdem]

12. Very ugly, very fast. Yes.

And woe betide any hapless defender!!!!!!!1111111

[seabeyond]

14. yup. and the expected silence, because it is.... this is what pisses me off. different expectations

i abhor hypocrisy.

[Luminous Animal]

26. Well, given that Bernie's essay was a critique of rape culture, I'd be pleased if

Hillary or Obama had written on the topic. Though not as clumsy as Bernie did.

[seabeyond]

39. bullshit. i did not like reading, how sanders was playing with this in his mind. regardless.

how he interpreted it, was still in the language of man, thru mans eyes and still uncomfortable for me as a woman to be represented by him, trying to figure out the roles. it was one of those, cant unsee what i saw. certainly not gonna applaud him about what he wrote. not gonna get on his ass either, cause ya, he tried and 30 or more years ago. irrelevant and insignificant.

i call bullshit..... that clinton or obama wouldnt have their ass on the platter right now.

diffing opinion

and really? that is all i am saying about this. four threads later, i have ignored this subject

i hate hypocrisy though

[merrily]

88. Ironic.

[Enthusiast]

186. Especially the hypocrisy part.

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[beam me up scottie]

157. If you think you "have ignored this subject"

hypocrisy isn't just a hobby for you.

[NaturalHigh]

184. "was still in the language of man"...

Oh dear lord.

At least you're consistent, I guess.

[Orsino]

13. Nope. Not helping.

And therefore kinda funny.

Sen. Sanders never learned to lie very well, did he?

[MoonRiver]

72. "Lie?"

Are you saying it really was his fantasy and he couldn't cover that fact up very well?

[Orsino]

188. Naw, I think he's telling the truth about his intent...

...when common sense should have told him to shut the hell up.

I like his honesty, but suspect the resulting sound bites (at leadt those selected for looping by the MSM) will work against him.

[Luminous Animal]

24. It was not a rape fantasy article. It was a critique of how women are portrayed in men's magazines.

With which, by the way, he had a problem with it… also expressed in the article.

It wouldn't occur to Cruz or the Duggers to critique rape culture.

[arcane1]

27. Surely you don't expect people to actually READ the article, do you?

That carries with it the grave risk that people will know WTF they're talking about before they post.

We can't have that!

[treestar]

66. Is it posted somewhere?

[arcane1]

69. There's a link in the OP

[treestar]

120. Theres a photo of the old newspaper article

of it. With good eyes, you can read the first part of it. though the article continues on probably in a later section of the newspaper.

From what I read there, I have no idea what he was getting at. He seemed to be going into both sides have it bad.

[Nye Bevan]

28. OK, I edited the post (nt)

[Cheese Sandwich]

50. MSNBC didn't even care before they ran this headline

The media is going to take every chance to sneak attack Bernie.

The article criticized rape culture attitudes like the one in 50 Shades. It's clear to me that is what he meant.


No matter what he would have said NBC would have come out with a headline like this and made the story all about this. Just like the story of Occupy Wall Street became all about a homeless guy taking a shit in a park.

If Bernie thinks he is going to get a fair shot from the media, forget about it. He has to go around the media as much as possible. Except for a couple people like Ed Schultz maybe and a few others, they are looking for any chance to derail this campaign.

[treestar]

68. Anybody not a Repuke is going to go through this

By now anyone who declares should know their entire life with be vetted.

[merrily]

91. Does that go for Bill Clinton in 1992 and Hillary in 2016, too, or only for Bernie?

This is one essay from 1971, ffs. And it's not even what the OP says it is.

[treestar]

107. Haven't the Clinton's lives been

scoured for every possible negative the media could go after? Obama's was too. Starting with his birth LOL. If Bernie wants to run for POTUS, he must have the sense to know that article would surface.

[merrily]

113. First, my question was about Bill in 1992, when Genifer Flowers hit the fan.

Second, no, more will come out about the Clintons. You can take that to the bank.

Third, again, this is one essay from 1971. So what if he knew it might come out? Big deal. It's nothing compared to having sex with Flowers in the bathroom of the Governor's mansion during an official dinner, ffs.

[treestar]

116. The point was it all came out

Bill Clinton obviously sailed through that one. But you are changing the subject. Now I hear it is normal for men to stray, especially powerful men like Bill. But writing an essay about rape fantasies might be weirder to a lot of people. It depends on the voter. I don't really care about either. I was merely observing that anyone running for POTUS of any note must expect this stuff will come out and not play the victim over it about how unfair the media is to do this to them.

[merrily]

118. OMG, Bernie did not say the media was unfair to bring this up. It's the Clintons who do that stuff.

[treestar]

122. People on this thread did

And other people on DU do. Complain he is not being covered and complain that when they do cover him, they look for something negative. LOL that's what they do.

[merrily]

123. You're saying BERNIE should have expected it to come up because of what DUers post?*

Last edited Sun May 31, 2015, 09:41 PM - Edit history (1)

Not as though Hillary supporters don't cry unfair, unimportant, witch hunt, etc., every time the media has a negative story about the Clintons.

So, I guess you've answered my original question. No, you are not applying the same standard to everyone who seeks the Presidency.


On edit for typos:

*The subject line might have been clearer if it had read, "Because of what DUers post, you're saying BERNIE should have expected it to come up?"

[treestar]

172. The Bernie followers need to get the fact that

the media will do what it always does . Comb his entire life to find something wrong. Surely he knows this.

[merrily]

173. That goes 100 times over for the Hillary supporters. And again, what

Bernie knows or does not know has nothing to do with what gets posted at DU. No clue why you keep connecting the two. I haven't seen anyone make assumptions about Hillary based upon what her supporters post. Odd.

Sorry about the typos in my post. I'm going to fix them now.

[treestar]

174. lol Hillary of course knows

the press has been after her for 25 years.

[zazen]

55. not a lot of men did that back then--I respect him even more now

Good Lord--I was fielding defenses of obvious non-consensual violent pornography by "liberal" men on Smirking Chimp as late as 2005, before I finally left in disgust.

The changed attitudes among men (and women) I've seen in just the past 10 years about gender roles is incredible. I was involved in the UNC-CH anti-pornography group (that morphed out of "the slideshow&quot and one could barely question pornography in the late 80s without being attacked on all sides.

If he was actually mocking men's magazines circa 1970 he was way ahead of his time. My respect for him just went way up, however awkwardly it was written.

No, it's the not the same as LIVING the crap Hillary Clinton has had to endure, but I also respect someone who has privilege who has the honesty, humility, and courage to question it when he could have much more easily continued in his comfort zone.

[beam me up scottie]

121. I wish I could rec your post.

My respect for you just went way up.

[BeyondGeography]

7. This is the answer his campaign team came up with?

Getting Bernie to mention it's about why certain women are submissive and it's like 50 Shades of Grey? Kill this thing off, don't feed it. Lame.

[Luminous Animal]

30. Did you read the essay? Because it was clearly a critique of how women were depicted in men's

magazines. Anyone who read the entire article could see that.

[BeyondGeography]

45. Tell it to Team Bernie

There are better answers in this thread than what he served up, which pretty much guarantees he'll have to try again.

[azmom]

8. Meh

[Thinkingabout]

10. I guess this questions Bernie is right for women. Shot a hole in his raft when out at sea.

It may have been poorly written in his eyes, not in my eyes. Several years ago Clayton Williams was running for governor in Texas and said, "It's like rape, just lay back and enjoy it". He lost the race to Ann Richards, women came out and voted against him, it is not a game with many women and men.

[MohRokTah]

15. If you ask me, people making a big deal out of this 40+ year old article are making...

something out of nothing at all.

It's silly.

[Cheese Sandwich]

18. Bullshit. The essay was criticizing rape culture attitudes like those on parade in 50 Shades

If you watch the video he said exactly that he was criticizing gender stereotypes like the ones in 50 Shades of Grey.

Fuck MSNBC for shitty C-Grade journalism and garbage headline. Fuck Chuck Todd and his bullshit ambush.

Bernie should know better than to go on this crap show. Like Occupy, Bernie will have to skirt around the big media and take his message directly to the people. The big media is on a mission to destroy Bernie Sanders.

[MrMickeysMom]

21. Ditto...

Chuck Todd tries to dance for his masters, but all he did was bait.

[AtomicKitten]

22. Segami wrote a good piece on this.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026753605

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. It could not be

have you ever tried to read 50- shades of gray? Trust me, even 40 years ago Sanders wrote better English, if you can call those "novels" part of the English language.

[ucrdem]

23. The English isn't the problem. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. I have read the full essay

and understand the historic context, and the good folks at VOX changed the headline and intent.

This is not new... I am sure we are all adults, and could speak about why that actually was a commentary... oh never mind. I most have lost my mind due to lack of sleep (now for real... I think I got three hours last night) and forgotten what site this is.

My apologies.

Don't worry. I intend to have an actual adult discussion on this, and a lot of other things with my family, and my brother in law.



Here, not really. Just that the comparison to 50 shades is all kinds of humorous.

[ucrdem]

31. I flipped through it and didn't notice any grammar lapses

Just a hell of a lot of sex scenes. Kind of like Venus in Fur by Sacher-Masoch. Not terribly offensive, but pretty clearly intended as, well, let's call it literary sex fantasy.

p.s. the novel, not the essay.

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. As I said, those comversations do not belong here

anymore



I must have lost my bloody mind... lack of sleep, yeah that's it

[ucrdem]

36. A couple of years ago that particular conversation

was all over GD. Lately it's subsided but I don't know that it doesn't belong as it does have political implications.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. Which is why I attempted, valiantly, to actually read 50 shades

I did not make it beyond chapter 10.

[ucrdem]

46. Well, critique is not the word that came to mind when I was looking through it

but I can see how a case could be made.

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. Well I prefer to know what I am talking about

so I tend to read things that send most folks to sleep. And while 50 shades is... horrendous, some government documents make it look almost worthy of the Nobel prize.

It is just that word processors have led to long... verbose, and cookie cutter documents.

But as I said, that comparison is just hilarious. And I will leave it at that.

[ucrdem]

54. I just checked the online PDF version and the grammar at least is fine.

I won't give the link because it would probably give offense but there's a Wordpress version that can be easily googled. I have to doubt that the author is really a woman, and as I say it comes straight from a long line of cheap paperbacks that used to be sold a dollar a dozen in thrift stores descending from Venus in Fur which probably descended from something else, but grammatically at least it's unproblematic.

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. There are three versions

Last edited Sun May 31, 2015, 05:31 PM - Edit history (1)

the kindle version, is the last one and the one I got. So it's gotten some fixes. It is not the grammar, I hate cookie cutter, cardboard characters and these ones were even thinner. I think paper thin. The "story arc" was really bland and the over use of certain phrases every two to three paragraphs drove me literally up a wall.

Edit, do not write when sleep is truly lacking

[ucrdem]

58. Yes, that's par for the course.

I gather this particular genre is mostly used to, um, wile away long plane and train commutes, so to speak. Not sure what makes 50 Shades a stand-out cause it seems pretty typical.

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. It stands out because it got academic interest due to the them

and how it does reinforce certain, ahem not so helpful, attitudes.

This was self published and I am betting that if academics paid it zero interest, it would still be a poor selling self published first novel... literally the reams of academic writing pushed this. Talk about some free marketing.

[ucrdem]

63. Could be. Doesn't do much for Sanders' argument.

I wonder if he's actually read it.

p.s. I haven't seen said reams anywhere but I haven't gone looking for it either . . . it's definitely a throwback genre and sometimes they do catch on that way.

[nadinbrzezinski]

81. I am not talking about Sanders

you are.

I am answering your question as to how this became a best selling trilogy and a movie. It had none to do with the material or the quality of it.

[dlwickham]

153. comparing it to Twilight would be humorous

comparing it to 50 Shades is just icky

[mythology]

29. A stupid explanation to a stupid question

The Sanders campaign should have come up with a better explanation, but the media should also compare this one article to how Sanders has voted on issues important to women and realize that it's stupid.

[Luminous Animal]

33. If you had read the article, you would know that it was a critique of rape culture.

His explanation was correct.

[DCBob]

34. The problem with Bernie's article is that most people can't get beyond the first few lines..

which contain some extreme sexually deviant comments.

[Sancho]

35. LOL...so much for women voters...

let's see, one week as a candidate:

Women: (Fifty Shades of White; Bernie style)
Minorities: (None in sight at the yacht race)
Gun Control: (voted to not sue gun manufactures the week they win an award for movie murders)
Baby Boomers and Unions: (Robin Hood tax on their retirement funds)
Ice cream lovers: (pissed off because everything has listeria just in time for summer)

A couple more days and this will be over!
Weren't we depending on Bernie to move Hillary to the left?

[Thinkingabout]

40. Over in a couple of days, just like post #1 who hasn't gotten over Hillary in the Goldwater days.

[merrily]

42. LOL!

[Kalidurga]

37. Bernie is wrong...

his essay is much better written than 50 Shades of Grey. And it pains me to say this even Atlas Shrugged is written better than 50 Shades of Grey. And while I don't like the content of that horrid book it is not the problem I have with it. I really really hate terrible writing, I don't care what the story is if it's written horribly.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

41. I refuse to criticize another Democrat.

I refuse to criticize another Democrat because I am confident that the candidate of my choice, St. Hillary, will rise or fall of her own accord.

[merrily]

44. Impeccable record on women's issues. Women ain't fools. nt

[seabeyond]

48. so lets start a fuckin OP in sanders name about mens fantasy to rape women. cause, he is after all

the one standing up for women.

fuckin for real? and can the blindness with sanders be any more stupid to tye him so loudly to mens rape fantasy....

with this little insignificant irrelevant article.

[NaturalHigh]

185. Are you SURE you're a Sanders supporter?

I'm not feeling it.

[beam me up scottie]

114. No we're not.

[Sancho]

47. If you think about it, this is Hillary's big chance!!!!

Once all the declared candidates are known, she can unload her server!

On it will be sexting from Martin O'Malley, bribes from Bernie, and whatever you want about Jeb and Santorum!

What's worse than a secret server? A secret server that you can put whatever you want to on it!!

If we're going to dig up old history, why not invent one that is fun?

[seabeyond]

49. there you go, get in the gutter to null and void an already dead subject for sanders.

you people claim to be supporters.

[Sancho]

57. I assume you get the idea...

if people are going to bash candidates over old history, CT's, etc., then it creates a fictional world devoid of substance.

I will vote for the Democratic candidate.

[MineralMan]

52. Not the best possible response, I think.

That novel isn't a good example of anything, popular as it may have been.

[ROYDOG999]

62. Bernie Sanders: Sex article

This is becoming "Bernie's" Howard Dean scream" moment. The media especially the Beltway media and the Wall Street Democrats will pounce upon this and blow it up out of proportion. No matter where he goes from now on he will be asked what about the essay. Because they can't ask him about the issues they don't want to hear about the issues. Notice they had to go back to 1972 to find a grad students poorly written essay to throw up to his face. So the powers that be must really be afraid of the candidate that can't win.

[Exilednight]

96. Easy response to anyone who asks: you obviously didn't read it - that's all he has to say. If they

Did they would know what it's really about.

[Vinca]

64. To dredge up an article this old from Bernie's "hippie" days means one thing:

he's a threat.

[MoonRiver]

65. No, it's sensational sex.

That's the media's favorite cup of tea. And I can guarantee you it will come up in the debates.

[gollygee]

67. This happens to all candidates

It doesn't matter how threatening they are. Anything they wrote long ago will be read to see if there's a news story in it. Embarrasingly poorly written article about sex? It's going to see daylight.

[Enthusiast]

187. He is a threat. And he remains a threat. They will keep looking.

[LittleBlue]

71. We should elect a corporatist who will rob us blind

because the socialist (who would benefit us all) penned a dirty fiction 40 years ago.

Honestly this whole thing is so cynical it makes politics seem like a pointless game. The fact that there are people on DU gullible enough to fall for this, not to mention the "Bernie is a racist" lie, is just depressing.

I have a question for anyone. How many on DU actually believe in progressive ideology, and how many just see this as a petty game? Because it's fairly obvious he's by far the most progressive option we have. I'm starting to believe a good chunk of DU are simply game-playing party loyalist types, or just personality cultists. Progressive seems to come second to the DLC kabuki. The Snowden stuff got me questioning what we're all doing here. The Sanders smears seem like a conclusive answer.

Don't know about anyone else but I'm losing interest in DU and politics in general. If people's lives are just games, why play? Just elect your corporate idols and let them do to us as they wish. Leave me out of it.

[seabeyond]

73. nobody on du is falling this, nobody is not voting sander because of, nobody said sanders is racist

[LittleBlue]

75. You know how you can tell it's a game for the gullible?

How many times prior to this has his cred been challenged? He's been a public figure and progressive hero for over a decade and I don't remember waves of bizarre attacks before he ran.

Suddenly his attitude toward race and women is questionable. Right. I could accept criticism of him but these laughable lies are so over-the-top it's just too much

[seabeyond]

79. dont know dont care about title or what you posted after this. i am playing in his crowds....

he is drawing in. so much better than this world. so. done. just picked up on all the shit you immediately started posting. and called it.

[beam me up scottie]

112. But us wimmenfolks need to be told what to think.

We's just two stoopid too gnow whose teh bestest candydate.

[gollygee]

76. For God's sake, no one called him a racist

Saying something negative about him is not calling him a monster. Questioning whether he's placing enough of an empahsis on racial justice is not calling him a racist.

The article was paternalistic and uncomfortable, but it was written ages ago and it did seem to be an attempt to challenge the patriarchy or something along those lines, so it doesn't change my support of him. But there shouldn't be a Bernie cult of personality any more than a Hillary one. He can be criticized, and it isn't fair to characterize every criticism as a smear.

This article is not a big enough deal for people to talk about even in a few weeks. People will keep scouring his past, and we'll probably hear about other things. Let's hope they're all this small.

[ucrdem]

83. Yes, it's fairly tame in its context. That is true.

But I'm not sure how many will remember that particular college-town-free-weekly-circa-1972 context. TBH it's a little before my time but I'm still old enough to catch the zeitgeist, at least I think:



I think it's meant to be serio-comic i.e. to put hard truths in a funny wrapper. Not sure it succeeds but I think it's basically well-intentioned.

[seabeyond]

85. oh oh. let it be pot. i so want to post this picture.

[Warren DeMontague]

138. He already admitted he smoked pot. Hell, even Ted fucking Cruz smoked pot at some point.

The only person who didn't smoke pot ever, apparently, was Hillary Clinton.

Go figure.

[seabeyond]

141. Good thing I used my picture now then...

[Thinkingabout]

84. Sometimes when bad and untrue stories continue to emerge and are

Repeated over and over. The candidates can expect to see stories coming out such as this. Maybe to stop the talking points by all, stop the trashing, it doesn't help your favorite candidate. The candidates has to sell themselves, they can not ride in on the backs of others.

[ucrdem]

95. MJ says his marriage broke up in the late 60s and the article seems to reflect that.

I wouldn't call it bitter necessarily, but it doesn't paint a happy picture.

[Koinos]

98. Best answer so far.

Bernie had a kid and an ex-wife at that point. She had been his college sweetheart. Kind of sad, actually. But of no political importance.

No source that mentions Bernie's first wife gives her name. That is for the best. Otherwise, a million reporters would be at her door.

When running for president, there is no such thing as privacy. It takes brave people willing to sacrifice their personal life to serve the nation.

[ucrdem]

102. Thanks . . .

Yes it is kind of sad. She moved on I guess. MJ also says he worked for a time as a freelance journalist so there are other pieces out there but this is probably the most salacious one:

He dabbled in carpentry and tried to get by as a freelance journalist for alternative newspapers and regional publications, contributing interviews, political screeds, and, one time, a stream-of-consciousness essay on the nature of male-female sexual dynamics. . .

[polly7]

147. This sander is great for women.

Whoa, that picture turned out big .... but it is a great feminist piece of work. Fits nicely in my female hand, and I ain't making that shit up. I love a sander that gets into the corners, don't you?

[Warren DeMontague]

158. How is that gonna play in the bible belt

Perhaps we need a belt sander

[polly7]

162. LOL. Yep. nt.

[beam me up scottie]

168. A non-religious belt sander that doesn't pander to christians.

I can't wait.

[Warren DeMontague]

170. Santa's pandering sander pandas for Sanders

I don't even know what that is, but it sounds right.

[beam me up scottie]

171. Just let your man parts read it.

My va-jay jay laughed.

[beam me up scottie]

103. Sure they have, but it doesn't say what they want it to so they're making shit up.

Why do you have to go and ruin the only good thing they've got?

Well that and the "He's not a racist but..." *nudge nudge wink wink* lie.

[BainsBane]

166. Then why did he feel a need to denounce it?

Last edited Sun May 31, 2015, 09:56 PM - Edit history (2)

Clearly he saw something wrong with it.

Have you read it yourself. Seems not (your reference to "could be') yet that doesn't stop you from deciding what it is.

In full disclosure, I myself didn't read it because I simply do not care. I only came into this thread because I was told of that jury hide based on an alert message that totally misstated the meaning of the post.

Not sure why people are so upset about the OP. It recounts Sanders own statements on the article. Funny you could take exception to what Sanders himself says and decide that's all part of some Clintonian plot. Not even Sanders is allowed to criticize Sanders on DU. I can see civic engagement and democracy has been thrown under the bus and from now until the election no discussion of issues will be allowed. That is precisely how people manage to place impossible exceptions of a candidate and, right after he is elected, decide he betrayed them. Now I see why people felt betrayed Obama didn't institute single payer and escalated the War in Afghanistan, when he made both positions clear in the campaign. People decided early on he was The One and wanted to hear nothing but adulation. Now, eight years later they are doing the same thing. Groundhog day. But that's how they like it.

[BainsBane]

175. Don't care to discuss the article

Don't give even half a shit about it. I did read the OP though, and I can't help note that you and many others get upset over Sanders own words. Even Sanders can't criticize Sanders on DU.

Naturally it must be Clinton's fault. She must have made Sanders say all those awful things about Sanders.

[azmom]

90. The revolution is not about Bernie. It's about us.

Are we willing to fight the big money? It's the people's revolution.

[BainsBane]

176. Thank you!

I wish more shared that attitude.

[corkhead]

97. So are you trying to help catapult the notion that this is this Bernie's "Pen-Gazi"?

Irony is dead.

[merrily]

124. Pen Ghazi. I see what you did there.

[beam me up scottie]

104. It was not a rape fantasy article, for those who want to see where this lie is coming from:

Bernie Sanders Gets MISQUOTED

Where did that first quote come from? The same very essay – Sanders is describing the horrific consequences of media rape culture. The normalization of rape is so monstrous and pernicious, Sanders argues, that some women have even internalized it, and have taught themselves to enjoy the very idea of being sexually assaulted. But instead of giving the reader some minimal idea of what the essay is actually about, Vox pulls a sensational quote about what Sanders is criticizing, shuffles it to the front, and belatedly gets around to explaining where the quote even comes from.

VoxNews and Hillary supporters here are associating Bernie with rape.

[ucrdem]

105. It's an allegory and it's not really clear what it's about. (Full text)

I'm not sure that media rape culture was an established concept in 1972 for the record here's what it says:

[beam me up scottie]

106. Says the person who defended the article associating Sanders with slavery and racist cops.

I know what it says and I know why you and your pals are pushing this non-issue.

Your faux outrage about his "race problem" failed epically and this is Plan B.

[ucrdem]

111. Better the text than the rumor and I've already stated that it's well-intentioned.

I'm not sure what you're complaining about.

[gollygee]

109. The patriarchy was an established concept

and he seems to be arguing against that. It's awkward and feels weird because it's so written from a male point of view, and for a woman reading it that gives it an uncomfortable vibe, but he admits it's clumsy. Regardless, it seems to be clearly arguing against the patriarchy. That's its intent, not to sell rape fantasy. He's arguing that rape fantasy is a result of the patriarchy.

[beam me up scottie]

115. Well said.

The intent is what matters, not the spin the anti-Sanders klan are putting on it.

[merrily]

125. Wasn't that 1971, anyway? Twenty years before he first went to Congress where he earned a 100%

rating on NARAL, 100% from the HRC, 97% from the NAACP and 93% from the ACLU? Twenty years before he started the House Progressive Caucus?

Let's say it was even bad for 1971. Can't we agree his thinking "evolved" him into a real people person?

[gollygee]

126. Those ratings

certainly carry more weight, at least for me, than this unpleasant article.

[merrily]

127. No complaints that I know of from a single woman who worked with or for him either, even

before he went to Congress.

This is bottom feeding at its worst.

[AZ Progressive]

179. About Bernie: Welcome to the world of national politics

Don't play if you can't stand the heat.

I like Bernie and prefer Bernie but he has to show that he can stand the heat, especially against the right wing machine. Hillary's a veteran in this realm.

[LadyHawkAZ]

110. Meh. Who cares?

This isn't just scraping the bottom of the scandal barrel, it's gone under the barrel and is digging a hole.

[Warren DeMontague]

132. It's a little weird, isn't it?

Aside from the fact that this article is completely not what it is being represented as- in actuality it's a boilerplate 1970s critique of gender roles as presented by media and society... dated, but hardly scandalous.

[LadyHawkAZ]

135. I read a bit of it

and I agree. The "rape fantasy" headlines from some outlets were just- I'd say ridiculous but I think it's more like wishful thinking.

[brooklynite]

119. I assume then that everyone here who complained about...

... the mysoginist, non-consensual aspect of FSOG will now be prepared to throw Sanders over the side?

[peecoolyour]

139. Bernie Sanders was a feminist before it was trendy?

The man never ceases to amaze.

[backscatter712]

160. I did read the chunk on display on Vox...

It was amateurish, and trying to be edgy, so the writing was about the quality of 50 Shades of Gray. It was critical of sexist attitudes and media exploitation of those attitudes. The mainscream media was hoping this would be Bernie's Dean Scream, but I don't think it'll have that effect.

[KitSileya]

181. The essay is bad, but his non-apologies are worse.

All he had to do was say that he no longer believes the things he wrote as a 31-year old, that things have changed and he has changed with the times, but instead he doubled down and threw the blame on those who rightly reacted negatively to how he wrote about women in that article. It's old, it's just an article, it was satire, you're just humorless. All typical excuses we hear about serious misogynistic shit all the time, and that Bernie Sanders would use them is seriously disappointing.

What Sanders wrote wasn't "something like '50 Shades of Grey'". It was worse. He's blaming women for the way men behaved towards them. That women's survival instincts at a time when they couldn't open bank accounts on their own or have an abortion caused men to treat them like objects, caused men to dream about gang raping 12-year olds. When you are 31, we expect better. However, that you haven't realized how egregious it is 40-odd years later is really, really bad.

[B Calm]

189. Much ado about nothing!

[RoccoR5955]

190. Isn't that the way of Upchuck Toad? n/t