Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
Sat May 30, 2015, 12:00 PM May 2015

What do you think about Bernie's foreign policy ability?

When it comes to domestic economic policy, he's saying exactly what I want to hear.

... but I think I need to look at a bigger picture. Bernie has never managed any organization bigger than his Senate office staff, and his plain spoken nature might not be a diplomatic virtue.

Bernie supporters: let's talk about this now so we are prepared talk about it later.

67 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
What do you think about Bernie's foreign policy ability? (Original Post) lumberjack_jeff May 2015 OP
I'm pretty sure he wouldn't take the Art_from_Ark May 2015 #1
That's an important question. MineralMan May 2015 #2
It didn't stop Bill Clinton being president Rosa Luxemburg May 2015 #57
I did not say he couldn't, anywhere. MineralMan May 2015 #63
I think the notion that the electorate at large gives a fig about foreign policy is fiction. Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2015 #3
I find "it doesn't matter" to be an unfulfilling answer lumberjack_jeff May 2015 #6
Were you asking in an electoral sense, or did you want to know how we feel he will actually do in Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2015 #11
Both. lumberjack_jeff May 2015 #15
What sort of foreign policy experience did Jimmy Carter have before becoming President? Art_from_Ark May 2015 #18
Look at the results. Thinkingabout May 2015 #54
Yeah, look at the results of the only one who had major foreign policy experience Art_from_Ark May 2015 #56
Yep. But what scares me about voters is how many seem to have family in the military these days and bettyellen May 2015 #21
Ah yes, the ole' America First neo-isolationist angle YoungDemCA May 2015 #37
Are you ascribing that to Bernie or to me? Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2015 #42
There's a whole lot of comfortable room between "isolationist" and "empire" arcane1 May 2015 #52
I've wondered that, too. Wilms May 2015 #4
He's never claimed to be under sniper fire. HooptieWagon May 2015 #5
You vote as your constituency allows treestar May 2015 #12
He is not from Vermont, he is from New York oberliner May 2015 #29
But now he is answering to Vermont voters treestar May 2015 #34
Right oberliner May 2015 #35
Me too newfie11 May 2015 #13
I think people all over the world are ready for honesty, no matter which politician or polly7 May 2015 #7
^^^^this!^^^^ peacebird May 2015 #51
He'd likely do what every president does, even better, he'd bring experts into his cabinet libdem4life May 2015 #8
Well said! silverweb May 2015 #23
yes G_j May 2015 #36
Yep. People seem to be looking for Jesus Christ Incarnate in one political human being. libdem4life May 2015 #41
Well you have to look at former presidents Rosa Luxemburg May 2015 #60
I'm referring to the Candidates for the 2016 Presidential Race. Maybe I'm not yet used to the libdem4life May 2015 #64
The only area I really disagree with him is on Israel. I believe Bernie to have the intelligence to Exilednight May 2015 #9
I like what he says about Saudis and ISIL. He says plainly the Saudis have a massive military KittyWampus May 2015 #10
I would hope flexible, and not fixed in the ideologies that drive the failed war on terror whatchamacallit May 2015 #14
^^^^Astute!^^^^ nt Stardust May 2015 #30
Really? ananda May 2015 #16
Shows how much you know.. lumping President Obama in with all those other idiots. And, yeah Cha May 2015 #22
To stay somewhat non-partisan, I refer to the following website: libdem4life May 2015 #27
Well, that's a depressing observation. Stardust May 2015 #31
I agree...don't know how it's going to happen, as Presidents come and go and the wars go on libdem4life May 2015 #32
US foreign policy should be to empower workers and communities to take control of their own lives... Cheese Sandwich May 2015 #17
he has repeatedly demonstrated good judgment cali May 2015 #19
I think his presidency would do wonders for our relationship with South America. peecoolyour May 2015 #20
Not true, he was Mayor of Burlington. I suspect he won't be an interventionist hawk or a corporate TheKentuckian May 2015 #24
Thanks for the correction. nt lumberjack_jeff May 2015 #25
Bernie is a very logical thinker and his foreign policy decisions will depend on napi21 May 2015 #26
Yes, he's not ignorant of United States history or World History, for that matter. He'll ultimately libdem4life May 2015 #28
It is hard for me to imagine him being any worse than the belligerent clowns we have running our bemildred May 2015 #33
I'm just glad that this place doesn't control American foreign policy YoungDemCA May 2015 #38
what a valid little comment. cali May 2015 #44
That's a good observation and question. Lilith Rising May 2015 #39
I trust his instincts. moondust May 2015 #40
I think it would be folly that anyone coming into such a position as President would have libdem4life May 2015 #43
+1 YoungDemCA May 2015 #45
Right on the money. People think that having a President who isn't a Washington Insider is a libdem4life May 2015 #47
The Commander in Chief sets the tone lookatme May 2015 #53
I think he will do just fine. hifiguy May 2015 #46
We don't know that yet lookatme May 2015 #49
It really comes down to who he surrounds himself with lookatme May 2015 #48
Weak compared to the former SoS. eom MohRokTah May 2015 #50
Exactly. Thinkingabout May 2015 #55
Weak? Rosa Luxemburg May 2015 #61
Sorry, that wasn't quite accurate MohRokTah May 2015 #62
I'm expecting less change in that area than I would like eridani May 2015 #58
Not as good as it could be but better than Hillary's. Tierra_y_Libertad May 2015 #59
My worry about Hillary's Rosa Luxemburg May 2015 #65
When Bernie didn't attend the Netanyahu speech fadedrose May 2015 #66
By the way you should look at Bernie's history in the Senate on foreign policy Rosa Luxemburg May 2015 #67

Rosa Luxemburg

(28,627 posts)
57. It didn't stop Bill Clinton being president
Sun May 31, 2015, 02:17 AM
May 2015

Bill was a governor. So what makes you think Bernie can't?

MineralMan

(146,189 posts)
63. I did not say he couldn't, anywhere.
Sun May 31, 2015, 09:40 AM
May 2015

I said it was an issue that will have to be addressed, because it will be raised.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
3. I think the notion that the electorate at large gives a fig about foreign policy is fiction.
Sat May 30, 2015, 12:08 PM
May 2015

Sure the Republicans are making a lot of noise about it, because they've got squat for good ideas, so talking about things far away as opposed to domestically is safer for them. Plus of course, it's their eternal scare tactic of fear and hate, killing brown people and 'terror'.

He has basically the same Israel policy as everybody else in Congress, so that's a wash.

I suppose you can call the TPP a foreign policy issue if you want, although I think it will have massive repercussions domestically.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
6. I find "it doesn't matter" to be an unfulfilling answer
Sat May 30, 2015, 12:17 PM
May 2015

The primary debates will prominently feature foreign policy lines of questioning. "I voted against the IWR" is a good start, but I'd like more.

This is going to be an interesting primary.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
11. Were you asking in an electoral sense, or did you want to know how we feel he will actually do in
Sat May 30, 2015, 12:23 PM
May 2015

office? I had thought you meant electorally, but maybe that's not what you're after? I would say most Americans are damn tired of sending money overseas while the country crumbles around us. If we had spent the trillions we've wasted on Iraq and Afghanistan on infrastructure, we'd have far better bridges, far better roads, far better schools, and a roaring economy for everyone, not just the richest of the rich. Instead, we have war hawk after war hawk in the White House, funneling tax dollars to drones, to missiles, to planes that spend most of their time being repaired.

I think he'll be less belligerent, more diplomatic, more insistent that the US be a part of a multinational solution to world problems as opposed to the biggest bully on the block.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
15. Both.
Sat May 30, 2015, 12:32 PM
May 2015

Honestly, his domestic economic creds are so good that I'm willing to cut him some foreign policy slack, but I'm a bit of an isolationist and everyone has a different tolerance level.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
18. What sort of foreign policy experience did Jimmy Carter have before becoming President?
Sat May 30, 2015, 12:44 PM
May 2015

Answer: None.
What sort of foreign policy experience did Ronald Reagan have before becoming President? None.
What sort of foreign policy experience did GHW Bush have before becoming President? First ambassador to Communist China, Vice President and head of the CIA
What sort of foreign policy experience did Bill Clinton have before becoming President? None.
What sort of foreign policy experience did Dubyah have before slithering into the White House? None.
What sort of foreign policy experience did Barack Obama have before becoming President? Committee on Foreign Relations (2 years).

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
56. Yeah, look at the results of the only one who had major foreign policy experience
Sun May 31, 2015, 02:14 AM
May 2015

before becoming President:

George HW Bush

For his part, Carter's foreign policy was pretty good-- it was modeled after JFK's, and emphasized human rights. But he got some horrible foreign policy advice from one Henry Kissinger, who persuaded him to let the deposed Shah of Iran enter the US, with terrible consequences.

Henry Kissinger-- the whole-hearted supporter of the 1973 Chilean coup and Operation Condor, and the man whom Hillary considers to be a "mentor".

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
21. Yep. But what scares me about voters is how many seem to have family in the military these days and
Sat May 30, 2015, 01:04 PM
May 2015

Seem to become very supportive of whatever we do because their livelihood depends on it. Outside the city, I'm not seeing the same anti- war sentiment and it troubles me greatly.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
42. Are you ascribing that to Bernie or to me?
Sat May 30, 2015, 06:21 PM
May 2015

I would call my stance the 'nonviolent stance'. Don't disengage from the world, but don't be the bully or the arms dealer either. Got an urge to intervene in another country? Do it with medical aid, food aid, construction aid, lots of open slots for refugees to seek asylum. Build up roads, hospitals, schools at home and abroad.

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
52. There's a whole lot of comfortable room between "isolationist" and "empire"
Sat May 30, 2015, 08:24 PM
May 2015

It's not an either/or equation.

 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
5. He's never claimed to be under sniper fire.
Sat May 30, 2015, 12:13 PM
May 2015

And he had the good sense to vote against allowing BushCo to wage war. Good enough for me.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
12. You vote as your constituency allows
Sat May 30, 2015, 12:24 PM
May 2015

The people you are representing come into play as you vote as you think most of them would want.

He is lucky to be from Vermont which allowed him to do this. Had he been from New York, it would have been a lot harder. Most of 911 happened in New York.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
34. But now he is answering to Vermont voters
Sat May 30, 2015, 04:40 PM
May 2015

He obviously made his way to Vermont and was so into Vermont he not only resided the but got himself elected from there. The people who voted for him are from Vermont.

Where he was born and raised is immaterial.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
7. I think people all over the world are ready for honesty, no matter which politician or
Sat May 30, 2015, 12:17 PM
May 2015

where it's coming from. These trade deals, wars and interventions - the whole world is literally sick from decades of dishonesty, secrets and deals that kill. The planet - environment, species populations, human beings suffering horribly - is begging for change, from every nation with power, especially from those whose foreign policy has greatly contributed to it all. And yes, I include my own.

Any politician who is honest and sees the suffering around the world for what it is, is going to appeal to people just tired of it or who simply cannot function any more within it ....... and I would hope those tired of it are a majority of people everywhere. All one needs to do is BE honest, and speak it.



 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
8. He'd likely do what every president does, even better, he'd bring experts into his cabinet
Sat May 30, 2015, 12:20 PM
May 2015

and listen to the conversation, then make a common sense decision...based on his principles. As posters have pointed out, the President isn't as powerful as we think.

But, pretty sure he won't bungle us into another war, and will probably try and make peace...what a concept...and cooperation with our foes. That'll show them.

Instead of sanctions and starving people and their institutions, may be we could have a program where a certain number of their youth could get scholarships to US colleges...Just a thought.

Oh, and neither had Obama as he didn't even finish his first term. He was a Community Organizer and Law Professor, as I recall.

And what experience did GWB have? Less than none. So I don't consider it a litmus test, by any means

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
41. Yep. People seem to be looking for Jesus Christ Incarnate in one political human being.
Sat May 30, 2015, 05:57 PM
May 2015

He doesn't claim to know everything...he has 50 years of political record that speaks quite well. I think he'll pick up on it pretty quickly, find some honest cabinet members like himself, appoint same to SCOTUS, et al if he's elected.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
64. I'm referring to the Candidates for the 2016 Presidential Race. Maybe I'm not yet used to the
Sun May 31, 2015, 11:01 AM
May 2015

Purity Party...finding the One Reason why the Candidate is problematic. Have no clue what that has to do with former presidents. Of course they, too were flawed in many minds. Surely mine, as a Left Liberal...hell, they were all flawed to me since McGovern.

Exilednight

(9,359 posts)
9. The only area I really disagree with him is on Israel. I believe Bernie to have the intelligence to
Sat May 30, 2015, 12:21 PM
May 2015

Surround himself with smart people, and use his SoS for their intended purpose: to advise and execute foreign policy.

He was smart enough to read the Iraq intelligence report and see through its bullshit.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
10. I like what he says about Saudis and ISIL. He says plainly the Saudis have a massive military
Sat May 30, 2015, 12:23 PM
May 2015

which cost them billions and is at the command of the Saudi royals.

They need to get off their asses and handle the situation.

He has a lot of guts labeling the Saudi Royals that plainly. It's one of his most appealing attributes to me.

whatchamacallit

(15,558 posts)
14. I would hope flexible, and not fixed in the ideologies that drive the failed war on terror
Sat May 30, 2015, 12:26 PM
May 2015

Seems to me, foreign policy needs to be mutable as there are many diverse and evolving challenges. Due to our post 9/11 mindset, there's an inclination to place everything, appropriate or not, under this Orwellian Islamic terror rubric. Bernie seems like the kind of person who would logically and dispassionately assess, distill, and formulate solutions apart from the irrational fearmongering of demagogues and desire$ of the MIC.

ananda

(28,780 posts)
16. Really?
Sat May 30, 2015, 12:35 PM
May 2015

You ask this in light of the absolute horrors of
the policies and actions of the admins of
Reagan, both Bushes, and Obama?

Sanders will do fine.

Cha

(295,899 posts)
22. Shows how much you know.. lumping President Obama in with all those other idiots. And, yeah
Sat May 30, 2015, 01:09 PM
May 2015

people are allowed to ask questions about Bernie.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
27. To stay somewhat non-partisan, I refer to the following website:
Sat May 30, 2015, 01:55 PM
May 2015

America Has Been At War 93% of the Time – 222 Out of 239 Years – Since 1776

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/02/america-war-93-time-222-239-years-since-1776.html

" Below, I have reproduced a year-by-year timeline of America’s wars, which reveals something quite interesting: since the United States was founded in 1776, she has been at war during 214 out of her 235 calendar years of existence. In other words, there were only 21 calendar years in which the U.S. did not wage any wars.

To put this in perspective:

* Pick any year since 1776 and there is about a 91% chance that America was involved in some war during that calendar year.

* No U.S. president truly qualifies as a peacetime president. Instead, all U.S. presidents can technically be considered “war presidents.”

* The U.S. has never gone a decade without war.

* The only time the U.S. went five years without war (1935-40) was during the isolationist period of the Great Depression"

End quote.

The newest hot spot...ISIS...does not appear. Every President has to protect, if not enlarge our Global Manifest Destiny at whatever cost, and they full well know it before they take the job. It comes with the territory...literally.

Stardust

(3,894 posts)
31. Well, that's a depressing observation.
Sat May 30, 2015, 02:42 PM
May 2015
Every President has to protect, if not enlarge our Global Manifest Destiny at whatever cost, and they full well know it before they take the job. It comes with the territory...literally

Manifest Destiny has been the root of of all out wars and aggression. I'd love to see that attitude go away.
 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
32. I agree...don't know how it's going to happen, as Presidents come and go and the wars go on
Sat May 30, 2015, 02:47 PM
May 2015

and on. I give Obama a shout-out for trying to pull troops out of the desert sands, but there's that "we broke in and we own it" thing that always bites us in the political butt.

 

Cheese Sandwich

(9,086 posts)
17. US foreign policy should be to empower workers and communities to take control of their own lives...
Sat May 30, 2015, 12:39 PM
May 2015

It should not be to pave the way for US corporations to colonize and extract value from other countries.

We should have a people-oriented foreign policy, that aims to help the working class people all around the world, not the billionaire class.

And honestly I do think we need more plain speaking and less double-talk in all facets of government, including international relations.

Bernie is the best qualified for this type of foreign policy.

The so-called US foreign policy experts have turned the middle east into a terrorist hell hole with their interventions in Iraq, Libya, and Syria. That is what happens when we trust neo-cons and neo-liberals to run foreign policy. Every word out of their lying mouths needs to be held up to scrutiny.

Hillary is the best foreign policy candidate if you think the US did a good job by intervening in Iraq, Libya, and Syria, the result of which was the birth of ISIS and flooding the middle east and Africa with US made weapons.

 

peecoolyour

(336 posts)
20. I think his presidency would do wonders for our relationship with South America.
Sat May 30, 2015, 12:55 PM
May 2015

We have a lot of fences to mend there.

And he has been outspoken about our meddling in that region.

TheKentuckian

(24,934 posts)
24. Not true, he was Mayor of Burlington. I suspect he won't be an interventionist hawk or a corporate
Sat May 30, 2015, 01:21 PM
May 2015

globalist nor does he advocate destabilizing countries for profit and won't be pushing toxic trade agreements to fatten the bottom lines of the few at the expense of the many and the environment.

Clinton is least trustworthy on foreign policy though this is supposed to be a strength.

napi21

(45,806 posts)
26. Bernie is a very logical thinker and his foreign policy decisions will depend on
Sat May 30, 2015, 01:47 PM
May 2015

the people he puts in his cabinet. I trust him to make lots better choices than. say, Jebbers!

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
28. Yes, he's not ignorant of United States history or World History, for that matter. He'll ultimately
Sat May 30, 2015, 02:00 PM
May 2015

be drawn into it, just based on the Cluster F### he, or any new president, is inheriting. I do believe he will be more thoughtful, a bit more resistant and "stubborn" in his views, than most.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
33. It is hard for me to imagine him being any worse than the belligerent clowns we have running our
Sat May 30, 2015, 02:56 PM
May 2015

foreign policy now.

moondust

(19,917 posts)
40. I trust his instincts.
Sat May 30, 2015, 05:27 PM
May 2015

He's not one to abuse the powers of government to help line the pockets of billionaires and cronies at the expense of less fortunate Americans. TPP is a notable example.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
43. I think it would be folly that anyone coming into such a position as President would have
Sat May 30, 2015, 06:22 PM
May 2015

already decided "foreign policy" before getting there.

That's why Presidents are briefed continually...by pro and cons in the federal bureacracy, the FBI, the CIA and other agencies and his own cabinet. Just a candidate does not get to have that level of input. I value having an Open Mind as opposed to to barging in with a pre-conceived notion as a literal Presidential Newbie.

 

YoungDemCA

(5,714 posts)
45. +1
Sat May 30, 2015, 07:49 PM
May 2015

Also, the vast bureaucracies of the State Department, the Defense Department, the military, the intelligence community - these aren't going to change drastically in their missions and practices, regardless of who is President.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
47. Right on the money. People think that having a President who isn't a Washington Insider is a
Sat May 30, 2015, 08:11 PM
May 2015

political plus, but that cuts both ways. The insiders can get things done if they have a history with the "players" in these bureaucracies and know who and where to go, how to apply the pressure, etc.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
46. I think he will do just fine.
Sat May 30, 2015, 08:08 PM
May 2015

He's hard-headed, sensible and has his feet on the ground. I can't imagine he wants an imperialistic US as so many others do.

 

lookatme

(54 posts)
48. It really comes down to who he surrounds himself with
Sat May 30, 2015, 08:19 PM
May 2015

Not only will this answer your question on foreign policy but it will
also leave no doubt on his domestic agenda.

Obama = Wall Street Fat cats and War mongers
Bush = same damn thing

The most interesting time will be when he chooses his cabinet positions .

That will be all telling

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
62. Sorry, that wasn't quite accurate
Sun May 31, 2015, 06:58 AM
May 2015

Last edited Sun May 31, 2015, 11:48 AM - Edit history (1)

Non-existent compared to the former SoS.

eridani

(51,907 posts)
58. I'm expecting less change in that area than I would like
Sun May 31, 2015, 02:18 AM
May 2015

The war machine come equipped with really huge inertia.

Rosa Luxemburg

(28,627 posts)
65. My worry about Hillary's
Sun May 31, 2015, 12:06 PM
May 2015

Under pressure from republicans she may do the hawk thing and follow the Bush-Cheney path?

fadedrose

(10,044 posts)
66. When Bernie didn't attend the Netanyahu speech
Sun May 31, 2015, 12:10 PM
May 2015

made to the Congress after Boener invited Bibi, that was a pretty good indication that Bernie follows politics.

He is for a 2-State solution in the Mideast, but I don't know where he stands on the ISIS stuff, etc.

His socialistic stand on many domestic issues shows an admiration for European countries which he wants to emulate....

Rosa Luxemburg

(28,627 posts)
67. By the way you should look at Bernie's history in the Senate on foreign policy
Sun May 31, 2015, 12:17 PM
May 2015

You may be surprised!

It's obvious that Hillary has been Secretary of State and knows the ropes but Bernie has been heavily involved in American foreign policy. He is certainly not weak in his military and security stance.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»What do you think about B...