More than 1,000 plaintiffs file lawsuit to keep Japan out of TPP.

[madfloridian]

They are saying it would undermine their human rights. Other countries are showing concern as well as many here in the US. More than 1,000 plaintiffs file lawsuit to keep Japan out of TPP

More than 1,000 plaintiffs file lawsuit to keep Japan out of TPP

More than 1,000 people filed a lawsuit against the government on Friday, seeking to halt Japan’s involvement in 12-country talks on a Pacific Rim free trade agreement, which they called “unconstitutional.”

....The plaintiffs said the TPP would change a number of rules and regulations concerning people’s lives “for the sake of the freedom and profits of global corporations.”

They claimed that an influx of inexpensive foreign products under the tariff-cutting deal would harm domestic producers and lower Japan’s food self-sufficiency ratio.

They also said the pact would push up prices for medicines and violate people’s right to receive proper health care by favoring big pharmaceutical firms.

The suit also shows concern for the secrecy surrounding the new trade pact. Sound familiar?

They also pointed out that the secret nature of the TPP negotiations violates the people’s right to know, as the document is confidential and the negotiating process will be kept undisclosed for four years after the agreement takes effect.

[AZ Progressive]

1. If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck

[madfloridian]

3. Most likely.

Let's face it. They would not be so secretive if it were a good thing for us.

[Major Hogwash]

2. Sounds like they are protectionists, preferring to use high tariffs to keep foreign products out.

If we would have done that in the 1960s Japan would never have evolved from the 1950s.

[madfloridian]

4. Nothing wrong with being a little protectionist when more jobs will likely leave.

Nothing wrong with that at all.

[Major Hogwash]

6. Hahaha!!! Trying to turn the clock back won't help them now!

The #1 imported car to America was the Toyota Camry for 10 years in a row!
And that was almost 35 years after the first Datsun was imported here.
Since the Japanese government gave subsidies to both of those companies in order to compete with American automakers, that is not what anyone would call a level playing field.

[Populist_Prole]

8. +1

"Protectionism" is only a stigma to pundits and policy wonks so they can look down their noses at our unemployed asses.

[madfloridian]

9. .....

[jeff47]

23. Your username is apt. (nt)

[Major Hogwash]

33. Is that all you got? That comment has been made about 150 times here at DU.

Why don't you come up with sumpting original, or sumpting.

[cherokeeprogressive]

34. Personally, I kinda like Backwash.

[Major Hogwash]

37. Well, there's always one of you who thinks you're funnier than the other ones.

But, you're not.

You can't hold a candle to other people who have called me names for years at this forum.

[cherokeeprogressive]

40. It's not really that important to me, but okay.

I still like Backwash... warm and full of someone else's spit.

[Trajan]

54. Im with Cherokee here ...

Major Hogwash, indeed ...

To defeat Japan's retrenchment to protectionism, you would advocate a return to, what, Feudalism? ... plutocratic hegemony? ..

I don't get why you guys show up here ... we are obviously Liberals ... When did Liberals start adhering to such a dogmatic view of capitalism? ...

Liberals love people, and care about their well being .. they don't care about anything but being able to care for their families. . . What you advocate is the opposite ...

Yeah ... major major hogwash . .

[jeff47]

46. Nah, just all your argument is worth. (nt)

[daleanime]

78. #151...

[salib]

31. We did "that" in the sixties.

High tariffs.

However, that is a straw man. They are not talking about tariffs in the OP, but of the dangers of giving up Japanese sovereignty. That is the issue here.

[Major Hogwash]

39. They already have high tarriffs in Japan.

The TPP would bring them down, re-read the OP's article again.

[jeff47]

57. 1.2% is not high.

Add up all the tariffs paid on US goods to Japan. Divide by the value of those goods. Result: 1.2%.

Ooooooooo. Look at the protectionism!!!

I eagerly await your explanation for how sales taxes that are many times higher are destroying the US domestic economy. Assuming you want to be consistent in your arguments.....

[Major Hogwash]

97. LOL!!!

I eagerly await your explanation for how sales taxes that are many times higher are destroying the US domestic economy.

[jeff47]

101. If 1.2% means we can't possibly sell anything to Japan

then CA's 7.5% must be annihilating CA's economy, right?

[Joe Turner]

38. Japan attacked America

and is responsible thus of killing tens of thousands of Americans. We should have left them to rebuild themselves instead of feasting on our industrial base post war. In fact open trade with Japan while they blocked our imports was the beginning of the erosion of our industrial base. China just took a page from Japan's book on how to pay off our politicians to get one way trade deals from the U.S.

[sabrina 1]

82. There it is again, the old catch-all with zero substance 'protectionist' defense of these

secret Multi Nationals who are sweeping across the globe, having devastated Third World nations, polluting and even killing protesters in the name of PROFIT and POWER, straight into the First World.

Is there ANYTHING a nation should be willing to protect, or are you for just signing everything away to Foreign Corps so that THEY can use other people's countries to pollute and ravage for their own greedy purposes?

When should a nation decide it actually DOES need to protect itself?

Someone described this recently as a 'Global Army of Corporations taking over the world country by country without having to use bombs and weapons' until the world's people are turned into a slave labor force with NO recourse anymore, since their once sovereign nations' laws to protect their rights, have already been weakened by these secret Trade Agreements.

So, in your opinion, we should not protect this country from harm anymore?

I'm sure there is a word for that. I'll think of it as I'm sure I'm going to continue to see this right wing framing of those who still think this country IS worth defending from ravenous, hostile Corporate entities.

[madfloridian]

84. Outstanding.

[sabrina 1]

85. Hi MF, thanks, I'm just sick to death of the talking points. No substance, just these Think Tank

Corporate memes to try to distract from what they are doing.

Sickening to see it here too where, back when Bush was trying this Fast Tracking of Trade Bills, you wouldn't find a single defender.

Hypocrisy to the max not to mention the selling of our nation because we 'trust' this politician or that politician which is way, way more important it seems on both sides, than the future of this country.

[madfloridian]

86. I find I can't watch news on TV anymore at all. They all sound robotic...

repeating the same words from pre-prepared scripts.

[sabrina 1]

87. The same here, I couldn't imagine using the Corporate Media as a news source. Pure propaganda

with not a single actual Journalist anymore.

[Major Hogwash]

96. Japan is not a Third World nation.

Go back to history class, sabrina!

[aspirant]

5. If the Japanese can file suit against their government

on unconstitutional grounds, where are American lawsuits on usurping our sovereignty?

[Art_from_Ark]

7. This is what I have been saying

The little guy here in Japan would be hurt big time by TPP.

By the way, there's going to be an anti-TPP rally in Tokyo next week.

[Major Hogwash]

10. And you have been wrong for all that time.

If the Japanese government wouldn't have been subsidizing the Japanese companies exporting their Japanese products to America, then the little guy in Japan wouldn't even have a job to begin with!

[Art_from_Ark]

13. You have no idea about the situation here in Japan

Absolutely none. I live it every day.

Try living with an exchange rate that has had the wildest fluctuations of any major currency, and that has gained in value by a factor of 3 (at one time 4.5) versus the dollar since 1971, and maybe you can get an idea of why Japan sometimes subsidizes a few companies. And maybe you can get an idea of why Japan has had to intervene in the currency market.

And not all the "little people" work for big companies, either. There are lots and lots of people in rural areas who have to depend on either full-time farming, or part-time faming to supplement their income. The TPP could deal a severe blow not only to their livelihoods, but also to their communities-- food processing companies, and local businesses owned and operated by local people. TPP could be the death knell for many small towns.

[Major Hogwash]

14. How long have you been living in Japan, Art?

Before or after Reagan?
Because that is how long the Japanese government has been subsidizing their auto making corporations.

[cali]

16. I'll say one thing for you: You have a lot of (undeserved) nerve

and subsidies or not, American cars aren't popular in Japan, for obvious reasons that naturally escape YOU

[eloydude]

22. +1

Nailed it.

[840high]

28. Bingo!

[Major Hogwash]

42. I don't reply to you at all.

Dinnit you notice that last week? Last month? Last year?

[jeff47]

58. So your account was hacked when you posted that reply? (nt)

[Major Hogwash]

61. Not before today.

[Art_from_Ark]

45. Do you know what happened in Japan during the Reagan administration?

The Plaza Accord. That was Reagan's manipulation of the Japanese currency in 1985, in which the value of the yen went from around 260 to the dollar, to 160 to the dollar, in the course of just a few months. Now tell me, how are you, as an exporting country, going to adapt to such an abrupt rise in the value of your currency vis-a-vis the US dollar?

And no, I was not actually living in Japan during the Reagan years, but I often came to Japan to do research.

[Major Hogwash]

59. Yes, and fortunately, my fortunes do not rely on Japanese currency exchange rates.

My older brother lived in Tokyo in 1980 and 1981.
And while the trade deficits with Japan were getting larger each year of the 80s, they reached their peak sometime in the mid-1980s.
So naturally, blaming their misfortunes on Reagan would be what I would except the Japanese to do.

However, if the Japanese national bank had not loaned those Japanese corporations record amounts of money at record low interest rates --- and all of that news was reported back here in all of the business newspapers --- then those Japanese corporations wouldn't have had to rely on government subsidies as much as they did before the national banks called in their loans . . which caused many of those Japanese corporations to sell off their holdings here in the US when their economic bubble burst.

[Art_from_Ark]

62. Tell me, how would you adapt to a sudden 60% increase in the value of your currency?

As you yourself noted, *your* fortunes "do not rely on Japanese currency exchange rates". But the fortunes of companies in Japan did. How hard is it to understand that? If you are a Japanese manufacturer, and you can sell your product overseas for a nice profit at an exchange rate of 260 yen per dollar, and 220 yen per dollar is your break-even point, how are you going to adapt when the exchange rate is suddenly 160 yen per dollar?

[Major Hogwash]

65. I'd move to California, take up surf boarding, and become rich and famous.

Just like Spicoli's fantasy of meeting Mick Jagger.

Jeff Spicoli: Well Stu I'll tell ya, surfing's not a sport, it's a way of life, it's no hobby. It's a way of looking at that wave and saying, "Hey bud, let's party!"

(focuses on Stu's sport coat)

Jeff Spicoli: Where'd you get this jacket?

Stu Nahan: (evasive) I got this from the network. Let me ask you a question. What's next for Jeff Spicoli?

Jeff Spicoli: Heading over to the Australian and Hawaiian internationals, and then me and Mick are going to wing on over to London and jam with the Stones!

(to the two girls next to him)
Jeff Spicoli: And you guys are invited too!

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. As far as the small agricultural producers

they will get the same effect that farmers in Chiapas did. Those farmers are currently striking in Baja California for slightly better wages and taking it in the chin from cops.

Did I mention that has all to do with corn? Mexico is no longer self sufficient on a staple and these people were forced off their lands.

In your case... I suspect it will be rice.

[Art_from_Ark]

49. Yes, the US has been pushing Japan to import around 215,000 more tons of rice

Most of that would be California rice, grown in a semi-arid climate in a state that has chronic water problems. Meanwhile, Japan has ample water resources and is self-sufficient in rice production.

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. Yup, and the rice is not

of the best quality either. Same shit, different staple.

[Art_from_Ark]

52. You'd love Lasher's comment on an OP I posted a couple of years ago

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024089103#post3

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. Appropriate

What many in Mexico say about NAFTA cannot be posted without a lot of bad language warnings.

[jeff47]

24. ROFL.

Last edited Mon May 18, 2015, 10:42 PM - Edit history (1)

Yeah, the Japanese who are buying relatively small numbers of small, highly fuel efficient cars would totally be buying 4 gas-guzzling, giant SUVs per person if it weren't for those subsidies!!!!

[jeff47]

20. Yep. Our industrialized farms are gonna wreck havoc with their farms

Since most of their farming isn't massive industrial scale.

Just like we annihilated Mexico's farming industry.

[Art_from_Ark]

25. I admire Japanese farmers

They take great pride in what they grow, and they try to produce it in as wholesome a manner as possible, which often entails the use of greenhouses or even "mini-hothouses" to reduce the need for pesticides and herbicides. I would hate to see that system crushed in the name of "free trade".

[Bonobo]

30. Thank you Art. Let me show a typical picture of Japanese farmers.

Every neighborhood you go to in Japan has integrated little farms everywhere. Many, man, many people grow just enough rice to feed their family for a year or so, along with onions, leeks, peas, potatoes, peppers, etc.

　　

[madfloridian]

35. Thanks, impressive.

[Art_from_Ark]

55. I pass by similar scenes every day

The kindergartners in the field are really cute. Were those pictures taken on your island?

[Bonobo]

56. I just googled. It doesn't do justice to the reality.

Americans would be surprised to walk through any suburban community and see the small scale rice farms, lotus root ponds, mixed farms with handmade bamboo poles and fences with hardworking grandmas and grandpas... nothing like it in America.

Japanese home gardening is to American home gardening like comparing a country of people who exercise daily as part of their daily life to an elite group of exercisers who attend professional gym cross fitness classes.

[yuiyoshida]

81. omg! Bonobo san,

Those kids are so cute, Squeeeeeeeeee! Kawaiii ne!

[madfloridian]

11. From Democracy Now...Japan Remains Hotbed of TPP Protest

The rest of the subject line is very interesting indeed.

From January 2014

Japan Remains Hotbed of TPP Protest as U.S. Tries to Fast-Track Trade Deal, Crush Environmental Laws

Well, we are broadcasting from Tokyo. Japan has been a hotbed of protest against the Trans-Pacific Partnership, which would establish a free trade zone stretching from the United States to Chile to Japan, and encompass nearly 40 percent of the global economy. Now, new documents released by WikiLeaks show the White House may be ready to backtrack on a series of critical regulations in order to secure a deal on the trade pact. These include legally binding requirements for pollution limits, logging standards, and a ban on harvesting of shark fins. The draft version of the "environmental chapter" also reveals that the U.S. and 11 other Pacific Rim nations that are party to the TPP would rely on trade sanctions instead of fines if a country violates its obligations. The Sierra Club responded to the latest news, saying if the draft report were to be finalized, quote, "President Obama’s environmental trade record would be worse than George W. Bush’s."

Well, all of this comes as hearings begin today in the U.S. Congress on legislation to establish Fast Track authority that would allow President Obama to sign the TPP before Congress votes on it.

[Katashi_itto]

12. K&R!

[aspirant]

15. Would the TPP

still go forward if Japan backs out while other countries consider the repercussions?

[madfloridian]

17. I just don't know.

Maybe someone else can answer.

[jeff47]

21. Japan's only about 12% of the GDP covered by the treaty

So it would hurt but not be completely deadly. For scale, we're 22% of the GDP.

But the people hellbent on the TPP are looking to make their investments in third-world sweatshops and pollution factories 100% safe. So they'll still going to be hellbent on it.

[madfloridian]

18. Found this about Australian opposition.

Have you even heard of the Trans-Pacific Partnership?

Why the TPP matters

In this report, we investigate the TPP and the impact it will have on your consumer rights and privacy. You'll find information on:

the secrecy surrounding the TPP and details of how the media is being locked out of briefings
how the Australian government could become more vulnerable to lawsuits from multinational corporations
why food labelling in Australia is in danger
how draconian copyright provisions could significantly curb our freedom online
how extended monopoly provisions could make medication costs skyrocket
CHOICE's campaign on the TPP.

And from the Sydney Morning Herald 2013.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/australians-may-pay-the-price-in-transpacific-partnership-free-trade-agreement-20131113-2xh0m.html

Australians could pay more for drugs and medicines, movies, computer games and software, and be placed under surveillance as part of a US-led crackdown on internet piracy, according to details of secret trade negotiations exposed by WikiLeaks.

A leaked draft of a controversial chapter of the Trans-Pacific Partnership free trade agreement reveals the negotiating positions of 12 countries including Australia on copyright, patents and other intellectual property issues, with a heavy focus on enforcement measures against internet piracy.

Intellectual property experts are critical of the draft treaty, which they say would help the multinational movie and music industries, software companies and pharmaceutical manufacturers to maintain and increase prices by reinforcing the rights of copyright and patent owners, clamping down on online piracy, and raising obstacles to the introduction of generic drugs and medicines.

The leaked treaty text also reveals new US and Japanese proposals designed to enhance the ability of pharmaceutical manufacturers to extend and widen their patents on drugs and medicines.

Proposals with the potential to impact significantly on Australia's Pharmaceuticals Benefits Scheme include a requirement that patents be available for new uses of existing drugs, effectively allowing ''evergreening'' of existing patents; compensation to companies for delays in the grant or extension of patents; and measures to ensure data exclusivity to allow companies to prevent competitors, specifically manufacturers of generic medicines, from using past clinical safety and efficacy data to support approval of new products.

[840high]

29. Good find.

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. I talked to some folks from Australia

in 2012 during the San Diego round. They have some of the most stringent tobacco scary art you will ever seen. Smoking is crashing. Well, for some reason Marlboro would like their trades back on the cartons and NO scary art.

And that is but one example. I spent a good hour talking to the delegation about that. There are other issues such as medicines, and yes, some agriculture and industrial goods. I was extremely impressed with their delegation. The folks from big tobacco, not so much. The guys from the US Department of State, not so much.

[Violet_Crumble]

79. There's also this article cali posted earlier about US beef imports...

TPP: U.S. wants AU to lower standards on health of imported U.S. beef

The Australian is reporting today that the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) trade agreement, which enters its final stages of negotiation, could require that Australia allow access to US beef imports that are potentially contaminated with Mad Cow disease:

The US has previously suggested increasing Australia’s access to its sugar markets in return for a lowering of biosecurity limits on American beef and this month cabinet was warned “there is ­increasing pressure from the US, Japan and Europe to allow fresh beef” imports.

according to the cabinet briefing, obtained by The Australian, the US has offered Australia some of the “least acceptable outcomes” in the TPP trade talks and offers of increased sugar and dairy access “is still linked” to quarantine conditions.

The US’ linking of quarantine with sugar and dairy access has reportedly infuriated both the beef industry and some Coalition members, with both the National’s Agriculture Minister, Barnaby Joyce, and Liberal Senate agricultural committee member, Bill Heffernan, publicly against such a move.

http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2015/05/coalition-new-beef-tpp-trade-deal/

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026693520

[madfloridian]

80. Thanks, I missed that.

[cherokeeprogressive]

19. They obviously do not know what's good for them. n/t

[Art_from_Ark]

26. Yeah, they just don't know

how "yummy" "peas" can be.

[madfloridian]

27. ...........

[FloriTexan]

32. Kick

[Hoyt]

36. Sounds like a bunch of greedy Japanese, along same lines of greedy Americans

who don't want poor countries getting any of their money.

"They claimed that an influx of inexpensive foreign products under the tariff-cutting deal would harm domestic producers and lower Japan’s food self-sufficiency ratio. "

Japan's leaders, like ours, know it's stagnation for decades if they just trade among themselves.

[Joe Turner]

43. There's Hoyt is with the same old false equivalency sound bites

America had a much better trading relationship with the rest of world prior to our free trade adventures, which of course have little to do with trade and a lot to do with creating incentives to offshore jobs. Shill Away!

[jeff47]

60. Your argument would work better if you reduced yourself to third world living standards first. (nt)

[Hoyt]

63. According to you guys, trade agreements are in process of dong that.

[jeff47]

64. Except we're not the ones claiming we have to drag ourselves down. You are. (nt)

[treestar]

71. But the third world should stay at those standards right?

Why should they get to trade and better themselves?

[madfloridian]

73. Since NAFTA it's been at our expense, great cost to our living standard.

Shouldn't we be able to keep ours?

[jeff47]

88. It's not a zero-sum game. We do not have to destroy ourselves to make their lives slightly better

[BrotherIvan]

69. What fresh hell is this?

[jeff47]

89. It's Hoyt's current go-to argument for why the TPP must pass.

See, he's all about alleviating suffering, and we're terrible people for wanting to not destroy our economy. Honest!

[BrotherIvan]

94. That seems to be the neoliberal tack

And it's not working. Blech.

[frylock]

93. not fresh, just the same stale shit.

[BrotherIvan]

95. Because if you even dare to bring up an economic issue

You are a racist sexist who only cares about white and men. I would say you can't make this shit up, but it seems to be a favorite line here.

[Skittles]

100. that's the favorite meme of the corporate assholes who profit from pimping off American jobs

oh yes

[Skittles]

99. it's not at all fresh

by now it is super-stale bullshit

[Skittles]

98. LOL

[CharlotteVale]

41. K&R

[AzDar]

44. K & R

[madfloridian]

51. Thousands in New Zealand protest TPP

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/03/12/tppa-m12.html

Last Saturday thousands of people joined nationwide rallies in New Zealand against the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) agreement, which is being negotiated by 12 Pacific Rim countries, including New Zealand and the US.

The protests took place in 22 cities and regional centres. The “National Day of Action” against the secretive negotiations was the fifth such event to be held in the past year and followed demonstrations in 2012 and 2013. National Party Prime Minister John Key has indicated a TPP deal, which has been repeatedly delayed, could be signed by mid-year.

In Auckland 3,000 people marched down Queen Street with a mock Trojan horse symbolising, according to organisers, that “elite US corporations” are “pulling the strings behind the scenes” on the TPP. Over 1,000 people marched through the Wellington CBD to parliament while 3,000 participated in Christchurch and 1,500 in Dunedin.

The Obama administration is aggressively pushing the TPP as a weapon for dictating economic and trading terms to countries throughout the Asia-Pacific. The grouping began in 2005 with an agreement between Brunei, Chile, New Zealand and Singapore to manage trade and integrate their economies. After Washington joined the group in 2011, negotiations were expanded to cover Australia, Brunei, Chile, Canada, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore, the US and Vietnam.

The TPP has become the economic front in Washington’s confrontational “pivot to Asia,” mirroring the rapidly intensifying US military build-up throughout the region aimed at China. At the Asia Pacific Economic (APEC) summit in Beijing last November, Obama called a special meeting of TPP participants to steer the conference to isolate and undercut China and establish the TPP as “the model for trade in the 21st century.”

[madfloridian]

66. YouTube video..Japanese protests against TPP growing. Makes excellent points.

Here is the transcript from The Real News.

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=10178

[Art_from_Ark]

74. There's going to be a rally in Tokyo next week

[madfloridian]

75. Are you going? Be sure to keep us up to date.

[Art_from_Ark]

77. I might be able to attend part of the rally.

[davidpdx]

67. I think you will see the same thing happen if Korea agrees to join the TPP

They have said no for the time being, but may join later. I really, really, really hope they don't.

[madfloridian]

68. Hard to be secretive in internet era..The Catch 22 of Trade Deals

http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/the-catch--of-trade-deals-done-in-secret/article_3509ab53-f0ca-545c-8ed1-fbcbb4dff4b1.html

Even Robert Zoellick, who served as U.S. trade representative from 2001 to 2005, expressed surprise that the negotiating texts were not made more generally available. "I'm actually a big believer in the transparency of those arrangements, so I don't know why they've been more restrictive," he said at a speech at the Wilson Center in 2013.

With the TPP, the United States isn't alone in its secrecy. Japan hasn't even allowed its legislators to see the text, to their chagrin. And public interest advocates in other countries, such as Australia and Canada, are impatient with their own governments' tight lips.

Even if trade negotiations have traditionally enjoyed some degree of privacy, Aaronson says, times have changed. The public expects new levels of access to information — which the Obama administration has granted in so many other areas of government — and gets suspicious when requests are denied.

"That's the problem. In the age of the Internet, it's just not working," Aaronson says. "It seems to me that the Internet has truly changed the way we govern. Why should we presume that it will not change how trade negotiations work?"

[Enthusiast]

70. I am glad to hear this.

People of the world unite against these damned trade deals!

[treestar]

72. I wonder how their law is

does it allow for that?

They don't sue even if they are hurt, I read somewhere.

On this they can sue? I wonder what that court will do with this.

[Bonobo]

76. You can sue for injuries in Japan.

The fact that it is not done widely as it is in Japan is a cultural difference, not a legal one.

[madfloridian]

83. The Incredible Arrogance of the Trans-Pacific Partnership Crowd..Dean Baker

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dean-baker/the-incredible-arrogance-trans-pacific-partnership_b_7309850.html

Another way in which our trade deals depart from the natural course of things is that they increase some forms of protectionism, most importantly patent and copyright protection. Contrary to what you hear from the drug industry and elite news outlets, patents and copyrights are not part of the natural order. These are monopolies granted by the government for the purpose of promoting innovation and creative work.

These are not the only mechanisms for promoting innovation and creative work, and it is certainly arguable that they are not the best, but most importantly they are forms of government intervention, not just the natural workings of the market. This point is especially important in the case of prescription drugs where patents can raise the price of a drug by a factor of one hundred compared to the free market price.

For example, the Hepatitis-C drug Solvaldi sells for $84,000 per treatment in its patent protected version in the United States. A high quality generic version is available in India for less than $1,000. If patent monopolies raise the price by a factor of 100, it has the same effect on the market as imposing a tariff of 10,000 percent. Markets are too dumb to know that patents are a form of government intervention that we are supposed to like, whereas tariffs are bad intervention that we are supposed to dislike.

This means that in addition to making drugs unaffordable to people who need them for their health, patent monopolies lead to all the sorts of corruption that textbook economics predicts from incredibly high tariffs. In the case of prescription drugs corruption takes the form of lying about the safety and effectiveness of drugs, which leads to bad health outcomes and sometimes death.

[Egnever]

91. This highlights something all the hair on fire types miss

There are a lot of countries involved and their people don't want to sold out any more than ours do. For this to get done it will need to be a good or decent agreement. For all sides.

People will fight against it if they perceive it as bad for their country and that can make the whole thing collapse. By it's nature for it to be completed there will need to be at least a decent deal for all sides.

[jtuck004]

92. Where do we file to keep the U.S. out of it? n/t

[orpupilofnature57]

102. A ploy to distract from the fact that it's a done deal .

[eridani]

103. TPP--fucking over the 99% in all signatory countries n/t