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Wed May 9, 2012, 10:18 PM

When have conservatives EVER been on the "right side of history?"



I'm not just talking about Republicans, either. I'm talking about social conservative Democrats.

I cannot think of one issue about which they have made the compelling argument for democracy in terms of economics, personal freedom, religious freedom... so WHY do so many people insist on modes of thought that they can look at, historically, and recognize that they're wrong?

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Reply When have conservatives EVER been on the "right side of history?" (Original post)
RainDog May 2012 OP
MrSlayer May 2012 #1
aint_no_life_nowhere May 2012 #2
RainDog May 2012 #10
bupkus May 2012 #3
hifiguy May 2012 #4
RainDog May 2012 #11
Canuckistanian May 2012 #5
demosincebirth May 2012 #6
RainDog May 2012 #18
Mopar151 May 2012 #7
Turbineguy May 2012 #8
Rex May 2012 #9
RainDog May 2012 #16
Rex May 2012 #20
scheming daemons May 2012 #12
RainDog May 2012 #13
scheming daemons May 2012 #14
AverageJoe90 May 2012 #15
RainDog May 2012 #17
eShirl May 2012 #24
eShirl May 2012 #23
NYC Liberal May 2012 #19
coalition_unwilling May 2012 #21
KAIXIN1 May 2012 #22

Response to RainDog (Original post)

Wed May 9, 2012, 10:27 PM

1. Never.

 

From the revolution to slavery to prohibition, women's suffrage, the labor movement, social security, civil rights, Vietnam, Medicare, ERA, Iran-Contra, gulf war I, Afghanistan, Iraq, patriot act and marriage equality they have ALWAYS been on the wrong side.

I'm sure there are many more.

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Response to RainDog (Original post)

Wed May 9, 2012, 10:27 PM

2. By their own admission, they'd like to stop the progress of history

"A Conservative is a fellow who is standing athwart history yelling 'Stop!'"

William F.Buckley, Jr.

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Response to aint_no_life_nowhere (Reply #2)

Thu May 10, 2012, 12:53 AM

10. great quote. I've never seen that one before n/t

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Response to RainDog (Original post)

Wed May 9, 2012, 10:31 PM

3. To answer your second question

 

"so WHY do so many people insist on modes of thought that they can look at, historically, and recognize that they're wrong?"

Because people are just that f'ing stupid. That's why. And they're that full of hatred for the people they're tricked into believing are their enemies by a few people who are their true enemies. But that goes right back to people being that f'ing stupid, doesn't it?

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Response to RainDog (Original post)

Wed May 9, 2012, 10:42 PM

4. The next time will be

the first.

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #4)

Thu May 10, 2012, 12:54 AM

11. LOLOL!!!!

uh-hum. same as it ever was -not.

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Response to RainDog (Original post)

Wed May 9, 2012, 10:45 PM

5. That's probably why they're always so bitter, mean and petty

They ALWAYS misread society in times of great change.

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Response to RainDog (Original post)

Wed May 9, 2012, 10:49 PM

6. Selfishness is inherent to human nature. Many change, conservatives dont't.

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Response to demosincebirth (Reply #6)

Thu May 10, 2012, 01:59 AM

18. I think it's more about fear

fear of change.

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Response to RainDog (Original post)

Wed May 9, 2012, 11:02 PM

7. What the old-timer said...

(from Prof. Allen Foley's book of that name on Vermont humor)

What's the matter, Joe?

I don't like all them changes they're makin' up to Montpelier!

Joe, you've been around a long time. You must have seen a lot of changes.

That's right! And I been again' every god-dammed one of 'em!

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Response to RainDog (Original post)

Wed May 9, 2012, 11:15 PM

8. When

Hitler anschlussed the Sudetenland?

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Response to RainDog (Original post)

Wed May 9, 2012, 11:27 PM

9. Perhaps only their founding father was correct

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Burke

I have no doubt he would be horrified at what we see today in GOPers like the Pigman.

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Response to Rex (Reply #9)

Thu May 10, 2012, 01:20 AM

16. I read quite a bit of his work oh so long ago

he was a really interesting intellectual.

of course, his views were actually pretty centrist back in the 1700s....

no doubt he would conflate the teabaggers with the mob that he detested in France during the revolution. He would think they're too stupid to govern. I think I would agree with him.

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Response to RainDog (Reply #16)

Thu May 10, 2012, 03:33 AM

20. I think he would cry if he knew that the Teabaggers

control the 'conservative' party.

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Response to RainDog (Original post)

Thu May 10, 2012, 12:54 AM

12. 1861

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Response to scheming daemons (Reply #12)

Thu May 10, 2012, 01:00 AM

13. Slavery was socially and economically conservative

it doesn't matter what the label for the party may have been. Slavery was the status quo.

And part of the point is that the party label doesn't matter. If you're a Democrat and you support conservative positions - you're a conservative, not a liberal. You may call yourself a Democrat and share views on issues with both Republicans and Democrats - but if you, for instance, don't support equal rights for all adults - you're a social conservative. Even if you're a Democrat. Or you're a politician who is trying to appeal to social conservatives in your party.

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Response to RainDog (Reply #13)

Thu May 10, 2012, 01:03 AM

14. Staunch religious conservatives made up the abolitionist movement


Northern conservatives led the battle against slavery.


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Response to scheming daemons (Reply #14)

Thu May 10, 2012, 01:19 AM

15. Uh.....I'm sorry, but what?

They were mostly progressives if anything.

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Response to scheming daemons (Reply #14)

Thu May 10, 2012, 01:33 AM

17. What was the context of the time?

The abolitionist movement was not simply made up of religious groups, btw. Fredrick Douglass would beg to differ. Along with other former slaves.

However, what was a religious conservative in that time? In comparison to what?

You can certainly say that religious groups in the north were part of the abolitionist movement - but I don't know how you can label them as conservative in relation to other beliefs at the time.

so, how do you go about doing that? what made them conservative in that time?

In the 1700s the Quakers were anti-slavery and were aligned with the atheist, Thomas Paine. So, were they conservative then?

I don't think you can apply the term "conservative" to all religious groups and you need to look at their social beliefs in the context of the time. It seems to me that, by default, any religion that was staunchly anti-slavery even before the American revolution was not a conservative religious group.

On the other hand, the religious groups in the south that used the Bible to try to justify slavery could, following the logic of conservatism as the attempt to conserve the status quo, be considered social conservatives. And religious conservatives, due to the Great Awakening - but the Great Awakening influenced the entire nation - some to positive action and some to negative action.

So, again, I guess you need to provide an explanation of religious conservative in relation to that era for me to say... okay, maybe this is one instance.

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Response to RainDog (Reply #17)

Thu May 10, 2012, 04:29 AM

24. you said it first and more eloquently than I



I'm often a "reply first, read other replies later" type of person

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Response to scheming daemons (Reply #14)

Thu May 10, 2012, 04:27 AM

23. more like what we would now call religious liberals

courageous Quakers who weren't afraid of rocking the boat, for instance

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Response to RainDog (Original post)

Thu May 10, 2012, 02:13 AM

19. A conservative who supports progress on an issue is simply a conservative

taking the liberal position on one issue.

The conservative position on an issue is always against progress.

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Response to RainDog (Original post)

Thu May 10, 2012, 03:54 AM

21. Prior to the 20th century, the political positions of 'conservative' and 'liberal' were

 

almost diametrically opposed to what one associates with the labels today.

To wit, conservatives generally favored a larger governmental role in the economy while liberals favored removing some or all governmental role in the economy.

On a semi-humorous note, in the mid-1970s, the only leftwing organization protesting against South African apartheid in America that I'm aware of was the Communist Party USA (and other CP iterations). I've begun to think that communists are about 20-50 years ahead of the Democratic and Republican parties on questions of social justice.

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Response to RainDog (Original post)

Thu May 10, 2012, 04:02 AM

22. When have conservatives EVER been on the "right side of history?"

 


They ALWAYS misread society in times of great change.It's a beauty!

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