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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSen. Sanders' "Too Big To Fail" Bill Isn't a Serious Proposal
Senator Bernie Sanders has introduced a bill to break up the "too big to fail" banks. And so, of course, a certain group of liberals are all a-flutter.
atrina vandenHeuvel
✔
@KatrinaNation
Go Bernie-- & drive this into campaign & debates/ Sanders unveils bank breakup legislation http://thehill.com/policy/finance/241211-sanders-unveils-bank-breakup-bill#.VUts4UwZ7kA.twitter
9:47 AM - 7 May 2015
The Hill @thehill
Sanders unveils bank breakup legislation
If an institution is too big to fail, it is too big to exist," he said.
View on web
For me, this is one of those moments when I part ways with some of my friends on the left. It's true that the title hits a note that many have been wanting to hear: Too Big To Fail, Too Big To Exist Act. But I have to wonder if any of these folks have actually looked under the hood to see what's actually in the bill. Don't worry, it's not a bunch of long drawn-out legalese. As a matter of fact, in taking on one of the most complex entities in our economy, it's only four pages long.
The bill requires the Treasury Secretary to make a list of "too big to fail" institutions. That's pretty easy because the list already exists as a result of the requirement in Dodd/Frank to identify "Systemically Important Financial Institutions" (SIFI's). And then here's the sum total of what the bill says should be done from there:
snip
If Sanders had been serious, he would have simply announced a re-introduction of Senator Sherrod Brown's SAFE Banking Act. That's because Sen. Brown went to the trouble of actually looking into the issue and crafting a solution to a complex problem.
Read More http://immasmartypants.blogspot.com/2015/05/sen-sanders-too-big-to-fail-bill-isnt.html
PBass
(1,537 posts)I don't find it offensive, since the basic concept is sound. I think Sanders wanting his name as the sponsor of a bill with that purpose is fair game.
marym625
(17,997 posts)I find the article in the OP disingenuous, at best
are those bills 3 bills since 2009 please link them. The American people need to know where he stands on why did he not reintroduce Sherrod Browns. Why?
It is in the link Mary. Please read.
Sanders
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/download/tbtfleg?inline=file
Sherrod~
The bill requires the Treasury Secretary to make a list of "too big to fail" institutions. That's pretty easy because the list already exists as a result of the requirement in Dodd/Frank to identify "Systemically Important Financial Institutions" (SIFI's). And then here's the sum total of what the bill says should be done from there:
http://www.brown.senate.gov/newsroom/press/release/brown-introduces-bill-to-end-too-
big-to-fail-policies-prevent-mega-banks-from-putting-our-economy-at-risk
If Sanders had been serious, he would have simply announced a re-introduction of Senator Sherrod Brown's SAFE Banking Act. That's because Sen. Brown went to the trouble of actually looking into the issue and crafting a solution to a complex problem.
Lol~ Mary.
marym625
(17,997 posts)You can get the text from those links. But here they are directly for you
S 2746 2009
https://www.congress.gov/bill/111th-congress/senate-bill/2746/text?format=txt
S685 2013
https://www.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/senate-bill/685/text?format=txt
I did read what you have and it wouldn't load the bill at first.
You took an opinion piece from a Hillary supporting that is dissing Sanders' bill. The information is inaccurate. It also is ridiculous to assume he would reintroduce a bill, he didn't that write, that failed to pass. Especially when this is something he has been fighting himself since 2008, his first bill introduced in 2009.
His bill does exactly what it says it, would break up the banks that are running the country and the campaigns, for some. The opinion blog you posted is a bad, wrong opinion
Do you think that you need more than what is in his bill to end the too big to fail? Do you honestly believe that Bernie Sanders hasn't done much research on this?
I give up with you. Actually end your post with "LOL Mary"
So your post is nothing but opinion by a Hillary supporter meant to show disrespect for Bernie Sanders based on bullshit, while you obviously did no research on the subject. And instead of replying to me in my reply to your OP, you decide to reply in my second post on this to someone else, in which I didn't repeat what I had already said.
I won't laugh at you. I find it sad
sheshe2
(83,721 posts)Your links are so silly.
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[url=http://postimage.org/]Actually Mary, I find it sad that Sherrod Brown was the sponsor of said legislation, it was already in place.
http://www.brown.senate.gov/newsroom/press/release/brown-introduces-bill-to-end-too-big-to-fail-policies-prevent-mega-banks-from-putting-our-economy-at-risk
Brown Introduces Bill to End "Too Big to Fail" Policies, Prevent Mega-Banks from Putting our Economy at Risk
Legislation Would Eliminate Government Subsidies Enjoyed By Trillion-Dollar Megabanks, Help Community Banks Compete
Wednesday, May 9, 2012
WASHINGTON, D.C. With the nations six largest Wall Street banks controlling assets equal to 64 percent of U.S. Gross Domestic Product, U.S. Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-OH) today introduced a bill protect American taxpayers by placing sensible size and leverage limits on our nations largest financial institutions. The Safe, Accountable, Fair & Efficient (SAFE) Banking Act of 2012, would hold Wall Street accountable, prevent future bailouts, and protect American homes, jobs, pensions, and businesses.
As our nations economy begins to recover, we must ensure that megabanks cannot take the same kind of risks that hurt so many of our nations families and small businesses, Brown said. Thats why we need to place sensible size limits on our nations large financial institutions and ensure that if banks gamble, they have the resources to cover their losses. The SAFE Banking Act would not only prevent bailouts and protect against economic collapse, it will help Main Street community banks compete with Wall Street megabanks. This will enhance lending to small businesses so that our economy can grow and unemployed Americans can find jobs.
Brown, Chairman of the Senate Banking Subcommittee on Financial Institutions and Consumer Protection, will conduct a hearing today entitled, Is Simpler Better? Limiting Support for Financial Institutions to examine our nations Too Big to Fail policies.
Based on legislation Brown introduced in April 2010 with U.S. Sens. Ted Kaufman (D-DE), Robert P. Casey (D-PA), Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI), and Tom Harkin (D-IA), todays bill would ensure that banks have the resources to cover their losses.
Specifically, the SAFE Banking Act of 2012:
Mary, I do not like to fight, however, I will call a wrong when I see it.
Yes, you do like to fight. Pretty obvious by your replies to me.
My links are silly? You wanted the text of the bills and I gave them to you. So you think a different link to the same information would pass your enlightened, brilliant, bar for silly? Or is it the bills themselves you find silly?
You forgot Sanders on your list with Brown's bill. Was that intentional or just your anti-Sanders opinion link?
You are not calling out anything. You are belittling me and Senator Sanders. You are using opinion and your opinion is incorrect.
Why would he reintroduce a bill he didn't write that is dead? He was also a sponsor of that bill. He has been fighting this longer than anyone else in the Senate. You, again, didn't do your research.
Your conclusion is incorrect.
I am done. I don't want to deal with someone who posts with the sole purpose of trying to show disrespect, that doesn't understand what they're looking at, doesn't research before posting and is just plain nasty.
sheshe2
(83,721 posts)Also, I am use to being attacked here. Not saying you, yet pretty common place for any vocal woman.
This place is going to be hell. It is ugly. This is the first thing I posted about Sanders, do you want to know why? All the ugly trash toward Clinton and using my Senator Warren as a tool to bash another woman over the head. I am a woman, and I despise that crap. It is happening, people here use her to bash Clinton. That is not right.
Please read what I said, the links and don't twist it.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)Last edited Fri May 15, 2015, 02:03 PM - Edit history (1)
sheshe get a grip. When someone criticizes you based on the words you post and not based on the fact that you are a woman, and when the critic is a woman themself, it is beyond ludicrous that you have to play victim and claim it is because you are a woman. That is a disgrace to feminism. It's bad form and you should stop it if you care at all about women's equality.
That being said, I'm confused. You asked for information on the bills because you didn't know about them and now you say you read all the bills. Did you mean the ones you asked about earlier or are those different bills you are talking about when you say you read them?
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)and only two -- you and that loopy upper-middle-class Texan -- pull the gender-based victim card, ad nauseam. There may be more, but you two are as predictable as, well, death and taxes.
I'm a woman, and don't feel in the least attacked by DUers because of my gender. I'd wager the vast majority don't either.
irisblue
(32,960 posts)ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Wow... "that loopy upper-middle-class Texan"... This is a personal attack on seabeyond. If you think it is ok, then maybe someday it will be ok to post personal insults about you, including personal information and implications about your mental health. This is OTT in a political discussion, hurtful, rude, insensitive.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat May 16, 2015, 04:23 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Horseshit is right. Way more than two women here point out gender-based biases (not a victim card, BTW) but only a few including seabeyond are routinely called out for it. This poster is way out of line.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Post was fine except for the condescending remark about the "loopy upper-middle class Texan." That's a personal attack.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: yeah, personal attack, HIDE, stop making DU suck.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Alas, I agree with the sentiment.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: zzzzzzz
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Loopy is a personal attack? Thin-skinned alerter.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)I took my chances with that one, and managed a LEAVE IT. Phew.
A-flutter away, you beautiful leftyleftistemotarianpoutragers!
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)There's your nasty. Hell, the sentiment in the OP is nasty. If one dishes it out, one must be able to take it.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)does sanders really need to be coddled so? is he really so weak and ineffective? personally, i think not. i think he can handle a little politics. my gosh, for a couple years clinton has been bashed every which way, and the same people needing sanders to be coddled, are bashing clinton as we speak.
and that gives you the right to insult duers?
whatever woman. i havent ever posted to you, yet you feel you can diss me. then validate it cause the "sentiments" about sanders was.... nasty.
you people with your purity test for a conversation about sanders is a hoot. such hypocrisy.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)News flash: I'd wager the vast majority on this board can't even grasp that concept -- "coddling" a politician. Bernie Sanders is no shrinking violet. Neither is Hillary, for that matter.
"Whatever woman." LOL I'll have to remember that. You'd be up in arms if someone replied to you in that manner. Tsk tsk, such a double standard... classic Seabeyond.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)least, get your insult right.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)California, Texas, your aversion to the caps key...
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)My "caring" has expired.
Nighty night.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)You got that right!
sheshe2
(83,721 posts)yet a guess. Could be arthritis. Me, I type with two fingers. Never took typing. Yet with arthritis starting with me, I can understand the stretch of the fingers hurting. However please continue making fun of DUers. You seem to be having a great time of it.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)You think it will catch on at DU?
"Whatever woman"!
Over 100,000 posts; yeah, I'm pretty sure it's not arthritis.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)That is what you got on me, calling you a woman. Bah ha ha ha.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)while aligned with some of the worst motherfuckers to grace the halls of Congress, not with anything you might say to me. But, can you imagine your reaction if a (vocal) male on this board replied "whatever woman" to you? DU would never hear the end of it.
I see you found the caps key. Well done.
OK, nighty night for real... busy day tomorrow!
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)you cant figure out the wrong in calling people names, nor the right in identifying an adult female as a woman.
hence, the whatever.
btw, cap? how about a iphone? ya think? brilliant i tell you.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)You would be apoplectic if another poster referred to you in that manner. I thankfully don't *get* your brand of feminism and never will. But I do appreciate the sheer entertainment value you (and the perpetually micro-aggrieved) provide on this site.
mY PhoNe maNAges cAPs. Brilliant, indeed.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)opposed to being called a woman.
Response to seabeyond (Reply #93)
Bonobo This message was self-deleted by its author.
Joe Turner
(930 posts)It has to be hell trying to make excuses for the inexcusable. You have a decision to make. You either align yourself with the workers of this country or the professional class of executives, CEOs, lawyers and financiers. One one side you have the 99% that make up this country, and on the other you have the 1% that believe enough is never enough. Your candidate works the latter. Where are you?
sheshe2
(83,721 posts)Gotta laugh~
Hillary~ still laughing.
Joe Turner
(930 posts)The joke is on you.
sheshe2
(83,721 posts)but keep telling yourself that.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Marr
(20,317 posts)It seems to me that Sanders is trying to put subject more prominently on the public stage and position himself for a primary season dialogue on the topic. That's not wrong or deceitful or even ineffective.
And it's consistent with his track record.
marym625
(17,997 posts)It hasn't been printed yet.
Text: S.1206 114th Congress (2015-2016)All Bill Information (Except Text)
Bills are generally sent to the Library of Congress from GPO, the Government Printing Office, a day or two after they are introduced on the floor of the House or Senate. Delays can occur when there are a large number of bills to prepare or when a very large bill has to be printed.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/senate-bill/1206/text
Senator Sanders has introduced similar bills over the last few years. What is at all suspicious about him doing it again?
This bill was introduced on April 9, 2013, in a previous session of Congress, but was not enacted. The text of the bill below is as of Apr 9, 2013 (Introduced).
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/s685/text
First introduced by Senator Sanders in 2009, Too big to fail, too big to exist. 2009.
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/111/s2746
So why not ask why he doesn't go back to his own bill, 2746? Or what is in Brown's bill that is lacking? Why reintroduce someone else's?
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Talking down to us much?
Bernie Sanders has many serious followers, intelligent people, who know our country can't afford more rightward moves.
Several times today there have been veiled and not so veiled put downs using such terminology as to be little or a lot insulting.
I am way too jaded to have my heart "all a-flutter", but I strongly support Bernie Sanders.
Can't you guys defend Hillary's positions on issues without such statements??
If you read the Sanders' forum, you will see many posts calling for no attacks on Hillary.
It would be nice if all the forums could do that.
sheshe2
(83,721 posts)What is your position on this????? Have not seen an answer from you, yet you say are a teacher.
Sad that~
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026637497
I guess only your outrage matters. I have two teachers in my family. Young and so awesome. They are the future. I know, you hate my guts. That's okay, I can roll with that.
Keep talking down to the rest of us. Yikes, you are so awesome mad.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)And most likely vote for Hillary in the general if necessary.
I have written so much about my stance on education that writing more would be useless. Where are you getting this stuff about hating you?? That makes no sense at all.
You have said enough. I don't need to say more. Wouldn't matter anyway.
You said:
What is your position on this????? Have not seen an answer from you, yet you say are a teacher.
Sad that~
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026637497
I guess only your outrage matters. I have two teachers in my family. Young and so awesome. They are the future. I know, you hate my guts. That's okay, I can roll with that.
Keep talking down to the rest of us. Yikes, you are so awesome mad.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)I don't usually notice personalities much (yours being a very positive exception, mad), but where did *that* gratuitous attack come from???
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)But it's upsetting.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)And I won't say "don't be upset," because I know that's not controllable. But I do empathize.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)FloriTexan
(838 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)It screams "issues."
FloriTexan
(838 posts)I too am for Sanders and I don't have to attack anyone else to support him.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Thank you much.
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)woo me with science
(32,139 posts)The incessant lying and denials of being right-wing were growing very tiresome.
The Third Way was never a grass roots phenomenon. It is and has always been a deliberate, Wall Street-backed infiltration of the Democratic Party.
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025246398#post11
"Centrism" to me carries a deliberate connotation of being "in the center"..in other words, not extreme in either direction. Ditto for the word "moderate," which is constantly used to describe Third Way politicians whose policies are anything but moderate in the traditional sense of the word.
Austerity and attacks on safety nets in a country that has already devastated its middle class are opposed by over 80 percent of Americans across party lines, yet these Third Way economic positions are nevertheless described as "centrist," as though they fell in the mainstream of American opinion. Policies coming out of our government now routinely bear little resemblance to what people have repeatedly stated in polls that they want, and neoliberal politicians lie their way through campaigns because they realize how unpopular their positions really are...yet we persist in calling them "centrists."
Secret laws, secret courts, "Kill Lists"/indefinite detention without due process, and mass surveillance in the United States of America are extreme violations of our Constitution and should not be considered "moderate" positions in any sense of the word. They are extreme, even fascistic policies, yet the politicians who espouse them are permitted by us to describe themselves as "moderates."
I think we need to start using the words, "corporatist," "extreme," and even "fascist" to describe what is happening in this country under the corporatist/neoconservative/neoliberal/Third Way agenda. We are witnessing a malignant merger of state and corporations and the active dismantling of important Constitutional protections. The corporate state is pouring our tax dollars into propaganda and marketing for their agenda, and IMO the vast majority of Americans, while aware of their own economic pain, have little understanding of the peril facing our democratic institutions and basic Constitutional protections.
We use words that suggest the current neoliberal and neocon policies are business as usual in America...just another flavor of policies that Americans can trust still fall safely within the boundaries of a democratic, constitutional, representative political system. They are "centrist" or "moderate." But they really aren't...and I think we need to adjust our labels to drive home the seriousness of the crisis we face.
Let's not forget what we are really dealing with. The Third Way was NEVER a grass-roots phenomenon. It is a deliberate, Wall-Street bankrolled infiltration of the Democratic Party.
Their agenda *and* their relentless propaganda are all part of a deliberate, treasonous corporate coup of democracy:
When the DLC connections to the Koch Bros. became well known, they just rebranded the infiltration
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4165556
When you hear "Third Way", think INVESTMENT BANKERS
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024127432
GOP Donors and K Street Fuel Third Ways Advice for the Democratic Party
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101680116
The Rightwing Koch Brothers fund the DLC
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414
Same companies behind the GOP are behind the DLC
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1481121
sheshe2
(83,721 posts)Does anyone ever read your blue links?
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Too many didn't say what they were claimed to have said. Same with the other famous blue linker.
Evidently you don't. That's a shame
sheshe2
(83,721 posts)I just don't have time to read 20-30 links on every post. Kudos to you that do.
Me, just lost 2 family members, one we dealt with for several years and his decline. Tried to care for my dad at home. I was working 40 hours a week, then 25 or so for my dad. It was exhausting. Alzheimer always is. The decline is so very painful to watch. He never knew me in the end. Ask Omaha Steve, he knows a lot about it. He posted an OP to me 30 days before my dad died. He just posted about himself as well, did you see it?
The other family member one year from diagnosis to death. Two died within 9 days of each other. So much pain. Now I am dealing with a mother that is aging and so very sick for months.
So, no. The links are not that important to me. My family is.
marym625
(17,997 posts)You should think about taking a break from here. You are lashing out at many that mean you no harm or ill will. You are not focused on the issues.
I know you are a caring person. I know that you are a passionate person. I suspect you are exhausted.
I have watched you slowly become someone that others don't take seriously, or who just don't want to deal with whatever you might throw at them, only because you and that person disagree on issues.
It used to be that you posted and everyone read it, rec'd it and kicked it. Because it was meaningful, thoughtful and heartfelt. Now, some posts are meant only to belittle. And you are better than that.
We can disagree without being mean about it. That's not to say that some here don't enjoy causing others strife. But the majority of people here just want to discuss and there is nothing personal in a disagreement.
We all have things in our lives we have to deal with that absolutely suck. You and I have more in common with that than you know. Many here are dealing with horrible things. And sometimes we need to back away from other things because it is no longer healthy for us.
I truly hope you take this in the spirit that I am writing it. I am truly sorry that you are, yet again, having to deal with a dying parent. No one prepares us for how hard that is.
I hope you can get some much deserved rest
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Read this itty bitty eye-opening thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022632517#post161
You sound like a kind person.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)That's a crock!
Sheshe has been much more focused on many more of the important issues than many other DU members here have been, especially the ones who complain about the BOG regularly in any thread they post in!
The sad fact is, not everyone agrees with you about what issues should be focused on.
But, feel free to post about those issues that mean something to you.
But, you should avoid denigrating those issues others choose to focus on.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Take it as mean spirited if you want. I responded to what was written to me. It wasn't anything but a response to a woman who responded in distress.
This the last and only response I will give on this.
sheshe2
(83,721 posts)Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)There are some here who want to run you off of DU.
There are two ways to look at it -
Either they consider you so dangerous and damaging to their cause (their candidate) that they have to resort to alert stalking, name calling, and any other trick they can think of,
OR
They are haters who can't stand to see someone at DU support this President.
Both viewpoints are not mutually exclusive.
In other words, some could feel both ways about you, at the same time.
But, what really gets to them, what bothers them the most, is that you talk about the future with hope and optimism so often.
And that causes them to grind their teeth at night.
sheshe2
(83,721 posts)This I do know.
I will not sit down and I will not shut up.
I have nieces and nephews also four great niece and nephews. I will do anything to make this a better place for them. Two of them are incredibly strong, talented and beautiful women. I would die for them if need be. There is so much talk here that we need to focus on economic justice and push social justice behind us for now. I have been told this! I say to hell with that 'cause one without the other is meaningless.
I will vote in every damn election, for my candidate or not if they lose. I will always vote for the Democratic candidate. Always. Never a write in.
Some believe I am a stupid Bogger, that is okay. I know I am not. Hell yes, I am going to enjoy the time remaining. He and his family have brought dignity and grace to our White House.
There have been times in my life where I learned your life can change on a dime. So, you know, I cannot and will not live my short life on earth in misery and despair. I have known it, not going to dwell in a dark place.
I am doing my best to make this a better place. Yes, I have hope.
Thank you Major Hogwash~
FYI~ All those 0-7 leaves go to Skinners desk.
Reading this before I hit send. Hmmmmm may make it an OP.
sheshe2
(83,721 posts)Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)OMG, there will be hell to pay for that one!!!
sheshe2
(83,721 posts)Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)Why is that?
Could there be another living human being on the other end?
sheshe2
(83,721 posts)She is a living breathing human being.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)Do you honestly think he had a chance of becoming the nominee for the Democratic party that year?
I didn't.
I think the only reason that he ran was to voice his opinion on the national stage about the issues that he thought were important and that most of the Democrats were ignoring.
Mostly, he talked about social issues that affected non-white people more than white people.
He talked about economic issues, as well, but since he is black, most of the mainstream media ignored him.
But, they didn't ignore Senator Barack Obama.
They bashed the crap out of him in 2008.
Now that he is President, the mainstream media bashes our black President, so I guess the mainstream media hasn't changed much in the last decade.
sheshe2
(83,721 posts)Important issues about PoC. We need that diversity in the debates. No, he never had a chance to win. The media ignored him because they felt he was not a threat. You are right.
I believe Bernie is in it for the same reason.
The reason they hammered Obama is clear. He was gaining strength, people were listening and they feared him. Goddess I loved watching it unfold. I knew, I just knew it was happening. Call it woman's intuition if you like.
A friend of mine, we always met for lunch and a glass of wine the day before the primaries and election. In 2012 she would not come, she was afraid he would lose. Not me, I was confident he would win.
Ha! I was right!
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)He's a black guy, who is 20 years younger than me, and he told me that he doesn't care who runs in 2016 after seeing the way that President Obama has been treated by his own party these last 6 years.
That caught me off guard because he doesn't talk about politics very much.
I don't think that the Democrats should count on such a large turnout of black voters as they had in 2012, 2 years from now in 2016, if all they are going to do is ignore the President.
My friend feels like his vote was taken for granted by the way the party has split up and stopped supporting President Obama.
If Bernie is just running to try and steer the conversation, he's going about it the wrong way.
The TPP is a trade plan that will increase trade for the US.
Increased trade means more jobs.
More jobs means more opportunity.
More opportunity is what young black people need, guys like my young black friend.
sheshe2
(83,721 posts)I just see a lot of hair on fire and we have seen this before.
What I do know (Trojan Horses aside, you did read the top of the page, correct?) is this President will not betray us. He will be getting us the best deal possible. 'Cause whether some believe it or not TPP goes through with or without our input. I rather have Obama in the negotiations. I trust him.
Your friend.
I feel for him, he is right to feel betrayed by his party for how they have treated this president. I talk to the members of AA here, they feel the same.
I can't say more on the board. I don't want another hide.
Thanks Major Hogwash~
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)Unlike NAFTA, which caused foreign countries to sue an offending corporation in the host's country -- as if they were ever going to win a single case in the host's country for illegal trade practices -- the TPP plan has a group made up from each country acting as negotiators for their country's corporations.
It takes control from the host country's court system -- which is inherently biased -- and places it among that specific group for reconciliation, in order to iron things out and make things even between the trading corporations.
The US, as well as any one of the other countries involved with the TPP, can pull out of the trade agreement at any time, if they so choose.
It's not the apocalypse, as the hair on fire crowd would have us believe it is.
Since President Obama knows that this plan would create more jobs for Americans, and also increase trade for all of the involved countries, it is a win-win plan for the US.
The Pacific-rim countries are all being threatened by embargoes from China, so they have to look for larger markets, or else China will shut them down.
China has a workforce that is 10 times larger than the workforce of America.
The TPP plan has been in the works for over 10 years, so it is not some haphazard plan that the President threw together at the last second just to piss off a bunch of white people in America.
As for the Trojan Horse topic, there is just no appeasing some people in this world.
If he were a lawyer, I could understand some of his angst, because lawyers are definitely going to lose some of their foreign clients, representing foreign countries disputing trade arrangements due to the TPP's plan of using a reconciliation group, rather than the court system.
July the 4th is on a Saturday this year, so maybe we can take a walk in the park that afternoon.
[link:
sheshe2
(83,721 posts)I have listened to many on the subject. I have rejected all of the hair on fire, all of it including my Senator Warren. I campaigned for her. I met her talked to her, not really liking what she is saying now.
Thanks for the tunes, loved it.
Which park are you talking about, Major?
PM me.
Gotta go~
That was condescending as hell.
I have watched you slowly become someone that others don't take seriously, or who just don't want to deal with whatever you might throw at them, only because you and that person disagree on issues.
Who are you, again?
sheshe2
(83,721 posts)I will not say more at this time.....at least not on the board. I know what is happening here.
Pastiche423
(15,406 posts)I keep a folder in my bookmarks especially for them.
They're fabulously informational!
sheshe2
(83,721 posts)But I never click on the idiocy known as immasmartypants.
You just did.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Guess again, cheche.
LOL~ righbackatcha!
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)to another blue link and yet to another. Prosense's links were an ever diminishing return. Like Russian dolls. That is, his links illuminate the discussion at hand. Prosense sought to obfuscate and was slammed for doing so. The person you are challenging is regularly praised for providing links. Because his links are meaningful to the topic at hand. There is a reason why Prosense is not here anymore. Too many intelligent people that mocked her for what she was. A propagandist who sought to blind people by shiny blue things.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)re-write in your own words, rather than try to cut and paste a few paragraphs from some anonymous blogger's op-ed piece. I can't make head or tails out of this, nor am I willing to chase a link to some anonymous blogger.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)Then I let my blog fall into disuse.
madokie
(51,076 posts)is all that contingent of people are when it comes right down to it.
I part ways with them. I'm too damn old to put up with bullshit
Bernie is the man. he is the real deal. I love him as well as I do my many brothers.
kenfrequed
(7,865 posts)By your measure most of the New Deal wouldn't have been a serious proposal.
djean111
(14,255 posts)What would you prefer - only proposing bills that the GOP will pass? We have enough of that kind of triangulation and capitulation (or outright agreement) with the GOP already.
What is hilarious is that if Hillary said the she has a plan to make a plan about the too-big banks, or said that she would love to have "a serious conversation" about the big banks - there would not be hearts a-flutter from the HRC contingent - there would be hearts dangerously a-fibrillating.
Marr
(20,317 posts)That's hardly something to crow about, however.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)She does want to break them up, right?
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)Autumn
(45,042 posts)those that hear her remarks in her closed-door briefings can pass them on down to us. Here's her stand on Citizens United according to those who have heard her remarks Our very own resident 1%er posted about it. I think it may be the safest way to campaign. Talk to the wealthy donors in private sessions and then they can pass her words down to us.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2015/05/14/hillary-clintons-litmus-test-for-supreme-court-nominees-a-pledge-to-overturn-citizens-united/
From the article
"She got major applause when she said would not name anybody to the Supreme Court unless she has assurances that they would overturn" the decision, said one attendee, who, like others, requested anonymity to describe the private session
Hopefully if she addresses that at her next private session an attendee, who, like the one did in this article may decide to request anonymity to describe the private session for us like they did in this one about Citizens United .
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)That's a fact, Jack.
The "pie in the sky" promises that Bernie is making now -- college will be free, but only if you vote for me -- are not even realistic attempts to get people to vote for him.
He's just pandering to those people who hate the idea of having to pay for anything.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)It's the corporate Dems and Cons that are the problem.
Bernie has been fighting the good fight since he's been in public office.
As to most of the OP, it's just not factual, as has been mentioned already.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)Brown's bill isn't that great. It delegates quite a bit of authority to the regulators, who've repeatedly shown that they're not to be trusted. I'd like it better, though still not much, if it was preceded by a wholesale house cleaning at the Fed. The bill allows the Fed to grant emergency waivers for the leverage ratios, as well as the power to adjust the leverage ratios. Considering the run of Fed Chairs we've had since Eccles and Martin, that's terrifying.
Sanders' bill is an outline, not an actual bill. Yes, I realize it's been introduced, but it's incomplete. It bans speculative use of derivatives without defining either term. It requires, in plain language, the breaking up of these banks without defining exactly what that means. It reads like a notepad sketch, not legislation.
Long story short, the writer of that blogpost is snarky and ignorant. A cursory reading of both bills reveals enormous shortcomings when the real world of financial regulation is considered. It'd have been better for the writer just to stay silent, rather than so vividly expose his or her ignorance.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)The strategy already adopted called "Systemically Important Financial Institutions" (SIFI's) came immediately to mind. I remember when the fail tests were reported, and it took a lot to do them, too.
I'm not sure why SAFE, if it is the same thing, was introduced. Warren said some time back, that Dodd Frank was the most significant thing she'd signed onto and was proud of it.
There is a good deal of media recycling of old stories. During the Bush Reign of Terror, I saw canned 'news' on cable 'news' shows like CNN and MSNBC.
One in particular was headed up as most of them, by some off the wall event somewhere in the world or here, dependent on the vendor of a product, about the possibility of a commercial jet liner being brought down by a rocker propelled grenade. That was in spite of the altitude, or maybe just within reach of one. Yeah, it could happen.
And by golly, if there wasn't a solution to this arcane problem already figured out! And a congressman and a bill written! Gee whiz!
Here's how this works, just as Nordquist said about elected officials only needing to have enough working digits to sign the legislation that has already been prepared. Meet ALEC on a national level, folks. And the conglomeration of business interests they represent, and the bought and paid for media.
It works like this from their side. Let's pretend that we own a company that makes this. And I'll speak in the first person here:
First, I have a company, or a concept. You know me, I'm Mr. Job Creator! I need to make some money, because I'm a VIP.
Second, I have to convince, either through ideology or faith (most common method) some legislator to put forth a bill. If he's a libertarian or bagger GOP, a direct bribe will suffice.
Third, I am confronted with one of the oldest problems in the world. No one has asked for my product, and I need a big buyer for the most profit. How to do it?
Fourth, I couldn't have gotten so high in the business world without good marketing. I'm putting in a call to my PR team.
Then comes in reverse order, what the hapless viewer sees in order to get those juices of fear or greed or whatever in motion, the 'breaking news':
First, (and often without Wolfe or whoever taking a break for fresh air as he reads the script) the dramatic, You Must See This Right Now! mood is set. It will employ clips of catastrophies, urgent background tones, the crawl of horrors, and the worried tone of the announcer. In this case, OMG, the terrorists can bring down a plane, I'm gonna die, OMG, OMG, OMG!!!
Second, (without a pause, as they know attention spans aren't what they used to be), Wolfe or whoever, does a clip of an interview with some words from a highly placed' (suspiciously and unverifiably anonymous) or maybe Mr. Working Digits Himself, they have a bill* thank god, Mr. Himself is on the case!
Third, Now they finish the sales presentation, with video and description of Mr. Job Creator's latest product, and see, that's all that was needed. Go back to sleep, America!
*Bill, being exactly what it is known commonly, that come out of your bank account when you agree to pay for it with that IOU. They are writing a Bill that you pay for, as they can't work for nothing, right?
So it goes like this:
Private organization needs money. Has money to develop a product. Finds someone to write the bill. Hires someone to advertise it. Now the sales presentation is complete.
Public input and review of product efficacy is unneeded. It's called the privatization of legislation. Your consent has been manufactured by the media colluding with their sponsors, and you will pay the bill, one way or the other.
I've seen this carried out up close. News stories come out to denigrate schools or any other public institution. They are not in danger of collapse, nor are they any worse than they were before this story hits the news, and the problem may have been solved already without selling off the Commons to a charter or other private firm, where the chances of accountability are virtually nil, as it's proprietary information now.
I could give multiple examples of where citizens, forewarned of these things organized in all the traditional ways, thousands of them, arrayed against the force of out of state or in state people who wanted to break promises made and steal generations of tax revenue, to make money for a corporation who flew them in on private jets. Despite news stories being fair, at the time.
Another example was of a sports stadium. For months the media mentioned in passing that it was old, and people wanted a new one for the honor of the city. The fans didn't care. But contracts and plans were being laid out, and those who would enrich themselves or their friends, supported it. The stadium was still not paid off for the former bond issue, and the new one would take another. Thus the tax payer would be soaked.
So suddenly, all the media arrives to show the demolition of the old thing, to cheers of some and the amazement of others, and the argument was over, no use beating that dead horse. Why was that day picked, before all the public got a say? Before all the costs to the public were made in the news?
Oh, just a coincidence, but the next day the stadium was slated to be added to the national historic record, thus spared, in theory. Now it is a done deal, set up by private contractors, to serve private profit, on the public dime, actually twice, less horizontal and equal in the ability of the public to enjoy it.
This is the triumph of the year around campaign, be it for a politican or a business interest. Sully anything or promote anything, until it is in the first case of sullying, disdained and people won't defend it, they feel by the repetition that they will not be heard, so they self censor. In the second case, something highly touted and given the most airtime, becomes of value despite the fact that it is, at the heart of itself, nothing but nihilism and greed. Yet, since 'everyone agrees' we can't do anything about it.
This is an example of consent manufactured by media through repetition, psychological conditioning, and a stable of well paid shills. That is why the GOP wins so often, it's their media.
Mind you, the first example and others are often not current news. I have seen stories that are three years old, replayed as if it's suddenly a 'news' and a 'crisis.'
It's not. But they count on the litany that might as well be a religious chant, that schools, whatever, is evil. They can go back to history and spell out bedlam, or the camps in Germany, whatever. This is for maximum emotional effect, to drown out the frontal lobe that says - 'Wait, this isn't the real problem.'
They know it's in the public mind, like religion, buried down deep, and able to be awakened at any time. Wash, rinse, repeat.
And now, for the big questions, why is this being rehashed? Is it just to remind people of what a politician's stand on issues is? Did the politican even know this was going to make the news? Is he really emphasizing it? Can a person be a Messiah and not be politican? Can he be both?
And now, that is just a small slice of how despicable the media is, in all forms, JMHO.
sheshe2
(83,721 posts)Thank you.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)I forgot about Sherrod Brown's original bill, because it never went anywhere.
And this one won't either, mostly for the same reasons, Republicans doing what they do best, filibustering.
Or, since now that the Ridiculous Ones are the ones who are in the positions of being the hall monitors who run things for the special class, they'll simply bury this bill in a committee and refuse to bring it to the floor for a vote.
They've done that same sort of thing for decades in Idaho's Republican-controlled state legislature.
One particular asshole Republican who was the chairman of the House ways and means committee, whose job it was to control the budget for the entire state of Idaho, would just place the bills that he didn't want considered by his committee in to the trunk of his car.
And there they would stay, locked in a trunk, until the legislative session was over, never to see the light of day again.
Journalists -- if you could call them that -- would write articles laughing about the entire situation when they reported how that asshole treated the minority party's attempts to pass bills in the committee that he chaired for years and years and years.
He never had to spend more than 2 or 3 thousand dollars of his own money to run for re-election because the county he was from was 90-95% Republican!
When he retired, many of the same local political writers that wrote about him years before, wrote again about his unique, unusual method of silencing the Democrats.
In order for new arrivals to the state that was lost in time would be able to see for themselves just how futile it was to try and argue with a "shit for brains" politician who was deaf to anyone else's concerns other than his own.
When that ginormous prick died a few years later, once again the same political hack writers lamented the loss of such a great "statesman", as if he ever attempted anything that even remotely approached statesmanship!
I expected the Republican party to erect a statue of him in the park near the capital building, or maybe call for the renaming of one of Boise's streets after him, the way those toadies wrote about that douchebag.
The mainstream media has been in love with the idea that they control the news for the last 50 years.
They think that they are the king makers.
Believing that they are the power behind the movers and shakers of power politics in this country.
That's why the mainstream media hates President Obama so much.
He doesn't kowtow to them.
Instead, he makes public appearences when he chooses to make some splashes about an issue is he currently pushing, and he uses the media like the whores they are!!
Stellar
(5,644 posts)
This is an example of consent manufactured by media through repetition, psychological conditioning, and a stable of well paid shills. That is why the GOP wins so often, it's their media.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Not right wing enough
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)They all do that crap. The better question is why people cheer for the political maneuvering. They would'nt do it otherwise.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)The Republicans do it better than the Democrats.
Make campaign promises that can never be fulfilled.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)Politicians like him that fires up the populist-progressive wings are held to these incredible high standards to constantly sponsor legislation that makes it way past a President's signature is being sold as some sort of uneffective extremist which isn't true because he generally ranks in the top 10 of Senate behaviors including sponsoring legislation that passes, but also bills out of committee, powerful cosponsors, and working with House (top 5 here). He also rarely misses votes, showing up to do his job which he works very hard at (Elizabeth Warren trials far behind but she is effective on Committees which Bernie Sanders is as well, I like them both but know he is very good at his job).
Unfortunately the lies overshadow the truth and this is ammo for his critics. His Sanders-McCain bill at the height of the so-called VA scandal, convinced McCain to hire more nurses, doctors, and staff -- of course private hospitals cover more patients. There is one hospital centrally located of the 7th largest metropolitan areas that treats patients of the entire state who some are ripping them off for travel pay -- "travel pay fraud" is indeed quite common but no other hospital gives me travel pay on my way out -- or a $50,000 bill for a bed, an IV, and a couple of meals.