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Tue May 8, 2012, 05:07 PM

 

Now I understand what Occupy Wall Street's problem is. It isn't their message.

In Europe, laid-off Sony workers in France held the French branch's CEO hostage in response to the layoffs. France had some large scale protests over Sarkozy's austerity program. The cops tried to smack down the protests and they exploded into riots and then strikes. As of now, Sarkozy has been voted out of office, and the very survival of France's austerity programs is at grave risk.

In Greece, anti-austerity protests broke out. The riot cops came out and tried to handle the protesters and things just got worse. Buildings were set on fire and even the police were caught on camera, on fire because of molotov cocktails. Strikes then followed. What has happened to Greece? The pro-austerity parties have lost power. The future of austerity in Greece is dim, to say the least.

In Libya, Tunisia and Egypt, freedom was gained only by a whole lot of fighting back. The integrity of Egypt's rebellion is at risk primarily because the Egyptian military is kicking ass without repercussions.

In America, nobody fights back beyond standing outside of the halls of the Plutocrats and protesting. Protesters get their asses kicked by the police and things stay the same. A notable exception is Wisconsin, where two major conditions occurred: the protesters numbered over a hundred thousand, and even the police were on the protesters' side. Things would be far worse in Wisconsin now if the public had not seen all those people, in force, with even the police acting like they were itching to join in.

The problem is that people do not respect an organization that never fights back, even in the face of outright brutality and violence. But America stands alone in the world in that when protests are suppressed and they escalate into riots, the public now favors the police. As of late, they favor the police as if they were gods. When the police turn on you, in America, that's a very big nail in the coffin. This is a fairly recent turn of events; police brutality used to earn them a bad reputation; now it's called "getting tough on crime".

So the problem with Occupy is not their message or their behavior. It's that they can't go out and kick ass. Sure, molotov cocktails would not be the way to go in America, but Occupy has other ways to kick ass: such as a concerted effort to deprive the police gangs of funding, which would be about just as devastating. Or bills that would outlaw their brutal actions during protests; or laws that strengthened free speech. Also, time will have to tell if the strikes on May 1 had any noticeable impact. Occupy has to find a way to handcuff the police thugs, ESPECIALLY the 7th largest army in the world, aka Bloomberg's NYPD.

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Reply Now I understand what Occupy Wall Street's problem is. It isn't their message. (Original post)
Zalatix May 2012 OP
Speck Tater May 2012 #1
Vincardog May 2012 #2
Zalatix May 2012 #3
randome May 2012 #6
Downtown Hound May 2012 #8
sabrina 1 May 2012 #12
Luminous Animal May 2012 #7
dionysus May 2012 #4
Zalatix May 2012 #5
sabrina 1 May 2012 #13
Zalatix May 2012 #17
sabrina 1 May 2012 #18
Zalatix May 2012 #21
Zorra May 2012 #9
randome May 2012 #10
Luminous Animal May 2012 #14
randome May 2012 #16
Rex May 2012 #11
99Forever May 2012 #15
backscatter712 May 2012 #19
ellisonz May 2012 #20

Response to Zalatix (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 05:13 PM

1. Americans, even the relatively poor ones,...

 

are far too coddled and comfortable and shielded from reality to ever risk going up against the system that coddles and protects them.

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Response to Zalatix (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 05:17 PM

2. Are you saying that OWS's problem is that they do not control the politicians? How else can they

deprive the police gangs of funding,
Or pass bills that would outlaw their brutal actions during protests;
or pass laws that strengthened free speech?

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Response to Vincardog (Reply #2)

Tue May 8, 2012, 05:18 PM

3. Make alliances with unions, minority groups, all kinds of folks who have felt the sting of the baton

 

and once this is done, GET OUT THEIR VOTE.

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Response to Zalatix (Reply #3)

Tue May 8, 2012, 06:17 PM

6. That would require leaders.

Something OWS is very short on.

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Response to randome (Reply #6)

Tue May 8, 2012, 06:31 PM

8. Personally, I think the lack of leaders in OWS is a good thing

The last thing we need is for a movement that represents 99% of humanity to be forever tied with a few human beings. How many social movements in the past have been halted because their leaders died, were jailed, or were revealed to not be saints through some scandal? That's the last thing OWS needs.

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Response to randome (Reply #6)

Tue May 8, 2012, 07:10 PM

12. Lol, except that OWS HAS formed alliances with Unions. And they didn't need 'leaders' iow, 'targets'

to do so. I suggest you learn more about this movement. They are allied with some of the biggest unions in the country and some of their largest protests were organized with those unions. So, no 'leaders' required, just people. And they have only begun, are growing and organizing with unions, with community organizers and with anyone else, or any other organization that represents the people.

Like all other Social Movements, OWS will be around for years, as it will that long to correct the wrongs that have pervaded our system for so long without challenge. In just six months they have accomplished more for ordinary people, than Congress has for decades.

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Response to Zalatix (Reply #3)

Tue May 8, 2012, 06:18 PM

7. We are making alliances. The movement is young. If it can sustain itself,

there likely will not be substantive change for another 30-50 years.

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Response to Zalatix (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 05:20 PM

4. there aren't enough of them to even affect legislation in the slightest, there's your problem.

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Response to dionysus (Reply #4)

Tue May 8, 2012, 05:36 PM

5. But there are enough of us Democrats. We fail OWS by not having their backs.

 

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Response to dionysus (Reply #4)

Tue May 8, 2012, 07:17 PM

13. They are not trying to 'affect legislation' with the current makeup of Congress, most of whom

were bought and paid for by Corporations. They are working to change the entire system that has made any legislation that benefits people over corporations, impossible. Because Congress for the most part, will never pass laws that adversely affect Corporate America.

It's astounding the lack of knowledge there is about this movement here. They will be around for years, are growing and expanding and will continue to do so, like all other social movements before them. Not one person I know who understands the huge problems in this country AND understands OWS, expects the changes that are necessary to happen in a matter of months.

Congress has had decades, what exactly have THEY accomplished on behalf of the people? Why are their approval ratings in the single digits do you think?

Hilarious that you are demanding a new movement that arose out of the failure of Congress to address the issues of the people, to do what Congress has failed to do even with the powers they have. Because the whole system needs to change. The Government is not functioning for the people. So clearly in its current iteration it is not a tool that can be used effectively by a movement whose main message is that the system itself is the problem.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #13)

Wed May 9, 2012, 12:01 AM

17. I for one wouldn't suggest a new movement (aside from OWS, that is)

 

What I suggest is that we Democrats join forces with OWS.

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Response to Zalatix (Reply #17)

Wed May 9, 2012, 01:45 AM

18. Many Democrats have joined them. Even elected Democrats. Including NY State's AG who met with them

while he was being pressured to sign a deal with the banks which he did not want to sign. He credited them with giving him the courage to withstand the pressure stating that just electing candidates is only the beginning, for him, having their support made it possible for him to hold out for a much better deal which he would not have been able to do without them. Iow, the people have to do what OWS did, keep the pressure on their representatives after they elect them. Lobbyists for Corporate America never go away.

I agree with you, Democrats should use this movement, as the US AG did, to demonstrate that the people are behind them to get done the things that need to be done for the benefit of the people and lobbyists for big corporations take second place when the people's business is at stake.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #18)

Wed May 9, 2012, 02:04 AM

21. I just wanted to say I have enjoyed reading your responses here.

 

Very refreshing, indeed.

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Response to Zalatix (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 06:57 PM

9. Any information about the impact of the strikes is and will remain hidden from the public.

The fact that nothing has been said about this leads me to believe they had impact that the 1% does not want us to know about.

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Response to Zorra (Reply #9)

Tue May 8, 2012, 06:59 PM

10. So now they control the Internet, too?

The scary conspiracy grows. And grows...

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Response to randome (Reply #10)

Tue May 8, 2012, 07:23 PM

14. The vast majority of U.S. citizens access news from MSM sources.

Including the internet.

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #14)

Tue May 8, 2012, 07:56 PM

16. DU has an Occupy Underground forum.

You would think they would post all the info there.

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Response to Zorra (Reply #9)

Tue May 8, 2012, 07:03 PM

11. The M$M will do their job for the corporate paymasters.

No wonder they are so hostile against bloggers...can't control a bloggers agenda like you can on TVEE.

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Response to Zalatix (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 07:46 PM

15. It's becoming inevitable.

Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.

John F. Kennedy (1917-1963)

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Response to Zalatix (Original post)

Wed May 9, 2012, 01:54 AM

19. First step of a revolution: Create the cultural space in which revolution is possible.

I'd say Occupy is off to a good start.

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