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Tue May 8, 2012, 10:37 AM

NC "its voters will carve in large, bloody letters hatred into the Constitution"

I am a professor at the University of North Carolina. I am a Westerner by birth and temperament, but after nearly two decades in this gentle, Southern state, I was until recently proud to call it home.

Today, it looks likely to be the case that my beloved home will pass an amendment to its Constitution that will make me a permanent second-class citizen. Last night, I talked with my husband of 12 years what we should do. Should I look for a job elsewhere? I love UNC. I love its students. But it is clear that a majority of its voters will carve in large, bloody letters hatred into the Constitution.

Should I uproot myself? I plan on writing the Chancellor of the University on Wednesday to let him know that I will start the years-long process of finding a new job. I am heartbroken. American Theocracy is a real thing - and the machinery of a pluralist, democratic state has been hijacked.

Truly, my heart breaks.

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2012/05/email.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+andrewsullivan%2FrApM+%28The+Daily+Dish%29

46 replies, 4156 views

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Reply NC "its voters will carve in large, bloody letters hatred into the Constitution" (Original post)
kpete May 2012 OP
Jamastiene May 2012 #1
lonestarnot May 2012 #2
rbixby May 2012 #3
The Link May 2012 #6
Bake May 2012 #10
Fumesucker May 2012 #13
Bake May 2012 #14
Fumesucker May 2012 #15
Bake May 2012 #16
Fumesucker May 2012 #20
Bake May 2012 #28
TalkingDog May 2012 #23
Fumesucker May 2012 #25
snappyturtle May 2012 #4
barbtries May 2012 #17
Hissyspit May 2012 #40
young_at_heart May 2012 #5
mmonk May 2012 #7
Luminous Animal May 2012 #8
mmonk May 2012 #24
Butterbean May 2012 #9
gejohnston May 2012 #11
zazen May 2012 #12
cali May 2012 #18
barbtries May 2012 #19
JoePhilly May 2012 #21
marions ghost May 2012 #30
JoePhilly May 2012 #36
marions ghost May 2012 #37
W T F May 2012 #22
Luminous Animal May 2012 #26
former9thward May 2012 #31
Hissyspit May 2012 #41
former9thward May 2012 #43
zzaapp May 2012 #27
loudsue May 2012 #29
goclark May 2012 #32
wildeyed May 2012 #33
marions ghost May 2012 #39
wildeyed May 2012 #42
SWTORFanatic May 2012 #34
former9thward May 2012 #44
SWTORFanatic May 2012 #46
byeya May 2012 #35
marions ghost May 2012 #38
ScreamingMeemie May 2012 #45

Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 10:45 AM

1. K&R

My vote against Amendment 1 this morning was futile, according to the polls. I hope the polls are wrong.

That email was right. That is exactly what this Amendment will be doing.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 10:46 AM

2. Nasty bunch of haters.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 11:35 AM

3. Anyone want to weigh in on the constitutionality of this?

Is it ok for constitutional amendments to discriminate? Is there legal precedence for it?

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Response to rbixby (Reply #3)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:14 PM

6. I know of at least one Constitutional scholar that believes the States should decide this issue.

 

I personally do not think it is ok.

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Response to The Link (Reply #6)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:27 PM

10. Any state law, in its Constitution or otherwise, that is contrary to the U.S. Constitution is VOID.

So saith the Supremacy Clause. And hopefully, so saith SCOTUS.

Bake

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Response to Bake (Reply #10)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:39 PM

13. What, do you want Romney to win?

You do realize the poster you were replying to was referring to Obama when she mentioned a constitutional scholar who thought this should be left to the states?

Why the different attitude on this to medical marijuana?

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #13)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:42 PM

14. Whatever the original reference was doesn't matter.

Constitutionally, any state law that contravenes the US Constitution is void. It has to be that way, or we have no federal system and no Constitution.

MM again? Sigh.

Bake

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Response to Bake (Reply #14)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:50 PM

15. So you're saying that states could pass laws legalizing torture..

And Obama would still prosecute torture anyway?

Funny how your opinion of disagreement with Obama changes with the particular subject at hand.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #15)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:54 PM

16. Do you have any concept of constitutional law whatsoever?

Duh. If states passed laws legalizing torture, and if those laws contravened federal law, those laws would be void.

This has NOTHING to do with what the Executive Branch chooses to prosecute or not prosecute.

Stop trying to put words in my mouth. I'm a lawyer. Words are my tools, and I will not allow you to choose them for me. But thanks for playing.

Bake

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Response to Bake (Reply #16)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:07 PM

20. Some of us are aware that straining at gnats and swallowing camels is a lawyerly talent..

A talent you exhibit here on DU..

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #20)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:32 PM

28. See if it's straining at gnats when it's something you care about ...

Nothing is more important than the Constitution. If you don't know that, I feel sorry for you.

Bake

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Response to rbixby (Reply #3)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:13 PM

23. An amendment is still a law. Prohibition for instance. As such

the Constitutionality can be called into question. I don't know how that works exactly with state laws vs federal. I think another poster addresses that.

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Response to TalkingDog (Reply #23)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:23 PM

25. No, an amendment becomes part of the Constitution..

The 18th Amendment had to be repealed by the 21st amendment..

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:07 PM

4. I'd like to know how this outlandish Amendment ever

made it through the process to be on the ballot to begin with?
What's wrong with people these days? I give up.

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Response to snappyturtle (Reply #4)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:04 PM

17. one word:

republicans. i could take a few more to remind you of the 2010 election disaster.

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Response to snappyturtle (Reply #4)

Tue May 8, 2012, 09:36 PM

40. Republicans took over state legislature for first time in more than a century.

Teabaggers were voted in in 2010 and this was their priority.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:09 PM

5. Formerly from So. Cal----now in Asheville

When I cast my 'no' vote I knew I would be in the minority, especially after seeing a full-page ad by Billy Graham in our Sunday paper telling people to vote for this sickening amendment. We have made NC our retirement home and everything was great until the last election when Republicans took control. It's been one hateful, religion-based bill after another. Asheville has been forced to move into Patrick McHenry's district which is not in the mountains and heavily Republican. If you don't know who he is, you will vomit when you read his contemptible utterances. He's the one who called Elizabeth Warren a liar at a hearing last year.

A sad time!!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:15 PM

7. Many people voting today have not studied

the wording of the amendment closely. So some will not know exactly what they are voting for.

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Response to mmonk (Reply #7)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:18 PM

8. What do you think that they think they are voting for.

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #8)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:19 PM

24. Defining marriage only.

That is the analysis Current TV gave. They cited North Carolinians favor either gay marriage or civil unions (53%). Some don't know they are closing the door on civil unions. Some, of course, do know.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:20 PM

9. I voted against the amendment, last wednesday, in Durham county, if it helps any. n/t

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:36 PM

11. Being from Wyoming

and stuck in Florida, I feel your pain. The diving and what hasn't been paved over grew on me, but not the politics. As soon as I can convince the SO that snow (and wilderness) is beautiful, I'm out of here. Yeah the diving is OK, and I like the manatee.
But then, someone has to try to protect the manatee from Republicans in big assed boats.
If all the good people left, the bad guys stay in power.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:37 PM

12. some coward(s) stole the anti-amendment sign from our yard yesterday

kPete--I hope you stay. Carolina (my alma mater), the Triangle, Triad and Asheville are bastions of more progressive sentiment. At Carolina you can continue to influence in-state students from more rural areas. African Americans weren't welcome at Carolina until the 60s/70s but people kept fighting. Faculty have been outspoken activists for years and have helped lead the way.

Of course, I don't have to put up with the daily slap in my face that you and your partner have to tolerate, but frankly, having grown up in NC with ancestors not many generations back who owned slaves and one who literally led a lynching, it's amazing to me that several hundred thousand to a million or so people actually voted AGAINST this travesty. That's serious progress, given our patriarchal, racist, xenophobic, homophobic past.

We need you here, if you can stand it.

Publicly shop around so people realize we're losing talent and business due to this amendment, and then make Thorp give you an amazing counteroffer so you can stay.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:06 PM

18. Along with 29 other states.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:06 PM

19. i wish he wouldn't give up so fast.

i'm not going to be convinced that this terrible law will pass until the votes are counted. everyone in NC, go VOTE!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:08 PM

21. A reason for hope ... my 18 year old son voted against it today ... his first time to vote.

My wife and I also voted AGAINST.

Wake County.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #21)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:33 PM

30. My guess is

it would take a lot of (smart) Republicans voting against it as well....

That segment of the NC population I don't have a feel for on this.

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #30)

Tue May 8, 2012, 02:15 PM

36. I think they pushed this into the primary because most of the "smart" Republicans won't be voting

today ... but the crazy ones will probably be running out to defend marriage.

Whack jobs.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #36)

Tue May 8, 2012, 02:46 PM

37. i was hoping

that the smarter Republicans might see the connection between this amendment and the negative effects on the state in general, and actually make a point of getting out and voting against.

But as I say, I don't have a feel for the way moderate Repubs are going on this issue. I would hope the Log Cabin ones are taking it seriously....

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:08 PM

22. The Ninth Circuit of appeals declared ban on same sex marriage Un-Consititutanal last January

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Response to W T F (Reply #22)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:25 PM

26. This will have to be decided by the Fourth Circuit; which, fortunately, is

considerably more liberal than in the past.

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Response to W T F (Reply #22)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:39 PM

31. The prop 8 ruling was very narrow and only applied to California.

Gays had the right to marry in CA and prop 8 took that away. The court ruled that rights once had could not be taken away for moral reasons. That reasoning would not apply to NC because there is no right for gays to marry in NC.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #31)

Tue May 8, 2012, 09:41 PM

41. It's still unconstitutional under the establishment clause.

Of course, they may not be much of a help if it goes all the way to Bush's Supreme Court.

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Response to Hissyspit (Reply #41)

Tue May 8, 2012, 10:05 PM

43. I don't think any court has held that.

31 states have either laws or constitutional amendments banning gay marriage. So there are plenty of opportunities to challenge on those grounds but I don't think it has been done.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:27 PM

27. Assholes

 

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:33 PM

29. I'll be voting NO on this amendment today, but the churches (who RULE) are

really pushing hard for this shit.

I'm so ashamed that this state elected republicans to overtake the legislature. They're the assholes that put this on the ballot during a primary election cycle....rather than during the general election. It's easier for them to control who gets out to vote for the primary, which usually draws very few voters.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:43 PM

32. Highjacked!


And, as much as I don't want to think it ~ it will be the same all over the country.

I hope some miracle changes things for your state and the country.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:57 PM

33. Can we wait until the votes have been counted before we all threaten to leave?

Yes, Amendment One is polling ahead, but it has been trending hard in the right direction for a week or so. By the looks of my Facebook, every single person I know, most whom have probably never voted in a primary before, turned out today vote against. Several even went to phone bank against it. The NAACP and a many black churches have been coming out hard against this thing for the past few days. They understand clearly that this is an attack on the entire Democratic base as well as an attack on gays. So let's wait until tonight before we brand the entire state of NC as a bunch of troglodyte haters. I still expect it to pass, but would not be surprised if it didn't or it was much closer than anyone expected.

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Response to wildeyed (Reply #33)

Tue May 8, 2012, 07:21 PM

39. waiting...

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 02:01 PM

34. Bigots are making their last stand in the south. This crap wouldn't

pass out West, the Northeast, or even many parts of the Midwest.

It will be over soon either by a FEDERAL LAW being passed or SCOTUS striking all the state laws down.

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Response to SWTORFanatic (Reply #34)

Tue May 8, 2012, 10:16 PM

44. Unfortunately it has passed in all of those areas.

30 states ban gay marriage by the Constitution and 12 ban it by state law. They can't be wiped out by a federal law because marriage has always been left to the states.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #44)

Wed May 9, 2012, 12:19 AM

46. They wouldn't pass if put up for a vote NOW in 2012.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 02:07 PM

35. My wife & I just got back from voting against this terrible amendment.

 

Hope enough people vote against it to stop the thing.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 05:31 PM

38. waiting...

waiting....

wonder when they'll announce results...

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 10:29 PM

45. Sickened. Just sickened.

Every time a vote comes down on this I want to throw up.

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