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Mon May 7, 2012, 09:04 AM

Do sex offenders ever change? Ive been reading THE LAST TIME WE SAW HER,


about the abduction and murder of Brooke Wilberger in Oregon. Joel Courtney, the perp, had a history as a sexual predator from way back in his teens. Hed serve time, be put on probation, etc.and then go do the same thing again.

I wonder if any perps similar to Courtney ever change.



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Arrow 24 replies Author Time Post
Reply Do sex offenders ever change? Ive been reading THE LAST TIME WE SAW HER, (Original post)
raccoon May 2012 OP
SoCalDem May 2012 #1
qb May 2012 #2
raccoon May 2012 #4
aikoaiko May 2012 #3
lunatica May 2012 #5
intaglio May 2012 #6
chervilant May 2012 #9
intaglio May 2012 #10
chervilant May 2012 #11
EOTE May 2012 #12
chervilant May 2012 #18
EOTE May 2012 #22
EOTE May 2012 #23
intaglio May 2012 #14
chervilant May 2012 #19
intaglio May 2012 #21
liberalmuse May 2012 #7
intaglio May 2012 #15
chervilant May 2012 #20
EOTE May 2012 #24
bluedigger May 2012 #8
bhikkhu May 2012 #13
Prophet 451 May 2012 #16
Prophet 451 May 2012 #17

Response to raccoon (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 09:16 AM

1. No, they do not.

They have periods of time when they may be locked up. They may have time in-between arrests, but they always remain predators, and dangerous ones at that.

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Response to raccoon (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 09:19 AM

2. Sexual predators should be transitioned into permanent locked facilities

after their prison term ends. I would be worth the expense to provide humane facilities to house these sick individuals and keep them away from children permanently.

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Response to qb (Reply #2)

Mon May 7, 2012, 09:22 AM

4. And away from adults as well, as in the case of Courtney, Ted Bundy, etc. nt

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Response to raccoon (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 09:21 AM

3. There are different types of sexual offenders of minors.


Its been a while since I read that literature, but in general those who are behaviorally labeled predators are never going to change. They can only be separated from the population or watched so closely that no opportunity is given.

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Response to raccoon (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 09:26 AM

5. I don't think they can be changed

It's like expecting heterosexuals to stop being sexually attracted by the opposite sex. It just isn't going to happen no matter how much you lock them up. Sexual attraction is what it is and no one knows why it is what it is.

Perhaps one day it will be something that can be controlled. Let's hope that day that they don't decide to 'fix' everyone or anyone other than sex criminals.

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Response to raccoon (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 09:34 AM

6. Yes they do but (as with all criminals) a few are irredemable

From Alternet, http://www.alternet.org/sex/155216/8_paranoid_sex_myths_spread_by_america's_anti-sex_crusaders_(debunked_by_science)/?page=1
5. Sex offenders
Myth: Sex offenders are snarling predators with no conscience, whose behavior is so compulsive it cannot be controlled or influenced.
Science: According to the Department of Justice, sex offenders have a strikingly lower recidivism ratethan any other non-sexual felony

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Response to intaglio (Reply #6)

Mon May 7, 2012, 09:44 AM

9. Perhaps,

they learn better how not to get caught...

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Response to chervilant (Reply #9)

Mon May 7, 2012, 09:58 AM

10. It's a hypothesis

get evidence (not hearsay) and I might agree with you.

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Response to intaglio (Reply #10)

Mon May 7, 2012, 10:55 AM

11. okay,

I've been an advocate for survivors of relationship violence for better than thirty years, and I have an MS in Sociology. I have to confess I have not read the contemporary research on sex offenders. However, the peer-reviewed journal literature I have read indicates that less than 1 in 10,000 sex offenders change their stripes.

Frankly, I am not concerned with recidivism rates, given that ONE experience of sexual abuse or assault will scar a survivor for life.

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Response to chervilant (Reply #11)

Mon May 7, 2012, 11:03 AM

12. So you're suggesting that sex offenders have greater than 99.9% recidivism rate?

Surely you'd be able to provide some information which backs that up? That seems like an absolutely ridiculous statistic. I'd be incredibly shocked if there were an ounce of truth to it.

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Response to EOTE (Reply #12)

Tue May 8, 2012, 02:05 AM

18. No,

I'm not 'suggesting' anything of the sort. I stated unequivocally that the peer-reviewed journal literature I have read indicates that less than 1 in 10,000 sex offenders change their stripes. That statistic says absolutely nothing about recidivism rates.

Geez... I wonder if I could wade through the depths of your intellect without getting the tops of my toes wet?



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Response to chervilant (Reply #18)

Tue May 8, 2012, 10:09 AM

22. Yes, that's exactly what you're stating.

If you say that less than 1 in 10,000 change their ways, you're saying that more than 9,999 out of 10,000 go on to re-offend. That's a greater than 99.9% recidivism rate. This is extremely simple logic, you should try to keep up.

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Response to chervilant (Reply #18)

Tue May 8, 2012, 10:11 AM

23. And quite frankly, I think you're full of crap.

I'm willing to bet that you can't provide anything in terms of literature which says what you claim. You're the type who simply spouts of ludicrous BS and expects others to take it as gospel. I'm quite sure that you're off by many magnitudes of order in your ridiculous claim.

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Response to chervilant (Reply #11)

Mon May 7, 2012, 11:10 AM

14. Sorry but what you have posted is, by definition, hearsay

and an appeal to (your own) authority. You admit that your evidence is not based on modern research but ignore such research links when given - check below http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002654020#post8 and its link to CSOM.

If you want to argue with real data then get yourself a grant and prove it wrong, until then stop pontificating based on nothing upon your personal distaste for what is a nauseating crime.

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Response to intaglio (Reply #14)

Tue May 8, 2012, 02:07 AM

19. OMG!!!

AGAIN, as I've just said hereinabove, I stated unequivocally that the peer-reviewed journal literature I have read indicates that less than 1 in 10,000 sex offenders change their stripes.

I'd suggest you hone your critical thinking skills, and stop telling others what to do.

Bleh...

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Response to chervilant (Reply #19)

Tue May 8, 2012, 02:19 AM

21. Citation needed

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Response to raccoon (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 09:34 AM

7. I knew a guy who worked with them...

child molestors cannot be rehabilitated.

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Response to liberalmuse (Reply #7)

Mon May 7, 2012, 11:12 AM

15. As linked to by myself and another

evidence - not hearsay, please.

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Response to intaglio (Reply #15)

Tue May 8, 2012, 02:09 AM

20. One more addition...

Go to ignore; go directly to ignore. Do not pass GO; do not collect $200...

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Response to chervilant (Reply #20)

Tue May 8, 2012, 10:17 AM

24. It's far easier to simply ignore others who call you on your BS, isn't it?

I prefer the truth, regardless of whether it makes me uncomfortable or not. But hey, have fun in your bubble.

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Response to raccoon (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 09:40 AM

8. They generally have lower rates of recidivism that other criminals.

Myth:
"Most sex offenders reoffend."
Fact:
Reconviction data suggest that this is not the case. Further, reoffense rates vary among different types of sex offenders and are related to specific characteristics of the offender and the offense.

Persons who commit sex offenses are not a homogeneous group, but instead fall into several different categories. As a result, research has identified significant differences in reoffense patterns from one category to another. Looking at reconviction rates alone, one large-scale analysis (Hanson and Bussiere, 1998) reported the following differences:

child molesters had a 13% reconviction rate for sexual offenses and a 37% reconviction rate for new, non-sex offenses over a five year period; and
rapists had a 19% reconviction rate for sexual offenses and a 46% reconviction rate for new, non-sexual offenses over a five year period.
Another study found reconviction rates for child molesters to be 20% and for rapists to be approximately 23% (Quinsey, Rice, and Harris, 1995).
Individual characteristics of the crimes further distinguish recidivism rates. For instance, victim gender and relation to the offender have been found to impact recidivism rates. In a 1995 study, researchers found that offenders who had extrafamilial female victims had a recidivism rate of 18% and those who had extrafamilial male victims recidivated at a rate of 35%. This same study found a recidivism rate for incest offenders to be approximately 9% (Quinsey, Rice, and Harris, 1995).

It is noteworthy that recidivism rates for sex offenders are lower than for the general criminal population. For example, one study of 108,580 non-sex criminals released from prisons in 11 states in 1983 found that nearly 63% were rearrested for a non-sexual felony or serious misdemeanor within three years of their release from incarceration; 47% were reconvicted; and 41% were ultimately returned to prison or jail (Bureau of Justice Statistics).

It is important to note that not all sex crimes are solved or result in arrest and only a fraction of sex offenses are reported to police. The reliance on measures of recidivism as reflected through official criminal justice system data (i.e., rearrest or reconviction rates) obviously omits offenses that are not cleared through an arrest (and thereby cannot be attributed to any individual offender) or those that are never reported to the police. For a variety of reasons, many victims of sexual assault are reluctant to invoke the criminal justice process and do not report their victimization to the police. For these reasons, relying on rearrest and reconviction data underestimates actual reoffense numbers.
http://www.csom.org/pubs/mythsfacts.html





I am in no way interested in defending sex offenders and don't plan to answer any responses to this post, but the facts are what they are.

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Response to raccoon (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 11:06 AM

13. I wouldn't bet my children on it

...while I know people can change, I am inclined to think its too much to ask that society trust them to.

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Response to raccoon (Original post)


Response to raccoon (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 11:40 AM

17. Some do

The recidivism rate with sex offenders is not unusually high. But with any group of perps, some will be essentially untreatable. It also depends a lot of what they were originally convicted of and the circumstances around it. The guy busted for soliciting a prostitute is going to be a lot easier to rehabilitate than the stranger-rapist.

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