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Sat May 5, 2012, 03:27 PM

Is Exxon a nation?

A nation is a group of people so I don’t think Exxon qualifies as a nation, but IMO, they are definitely a strong, independent sovereignty.

Exxon has to be one of the most powerful entities in the world. They are not a “USofA” company, but an entity all of their own. They have zero allegiance to the USofA. They use our country’s resources, infrastructure and military, and not only don’t pay for it, WE PAY them. We give them corporate welfare. We cover their risks while they keep the rewards. They are so powerful they have literally purchased some control of our government and have given themselves very large subsidies. But you wont hear anything bad about Exxon in the corp-media. Exxon pays the media large sums of money for “advertising” and/or share the same people on Boards of Directors with the large media corporations. The advertising money yields favorable treatment from the media.

It looks to me like globalization means the formation or creation of corporate sovereignty's.

29 replies, 3170 views

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Arrow 29 replies Author Time Post
Reply Is Exxon a nation? (Original post)
rhett o rick May 2012 OP
DirkGently May 2012 #1
rhett o rick May 2012 #4
Hawkowl May 2012 #18
rhett o rick May 2012 #20
valerief May 2012 #2
steve2470 May 2012 #3
FarCenter May 2012 #5
rhett o rick May 2012 #6
FarCenter May 2012 #7
rhett o rick May 2012 #8
FarCenter May 2012 #10
rhett o rick May 2012 #11
UTUSN May 2012 #9
Edim May 2012 #12
proud2BlibKansan May 2012 #13
rhett o rick May 2012 #29
lunatica May 2012 #14
former9thward May 2012 #15
rhett o rick May 2012 #17
former9thward May 2012 #19
rhett o rick May 2012 #21
former9thward May 2012 #22
rhett o rick May 2012 #23
former9thward May 2012 #24
rhett o rick May 2012 #25
rhett o rick May 2012 #26
Zax2me May 2012 #16
WillyT May 2012 #27
rhett o rick May 2012 #28

Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Sat May 5, 2012, 03:31 PM

1. There's a new book out suggesting it acts like one.

“Private Empire” details Exxon Mobil’s harassment of environmental scientists, its messy entanglements in small wars in far-flung countries, its withholding of information from Congress, its dissembling about global warming, its arrogant culture, its obscene stockpiles of cash.

In 2005 it earned a net profit of $36.1 billion, more than any corporation ever. To paraphrase a line from Paul Thomas Anderson’s 2007 oil movie, “There Will Be Blood,” Exxon Mobil sticks a straw into, and drinks, many people’s milkshakes.




http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/27/books/private-empire-steve-colls-book-on-exxon-mobil.html?pagewanted=all

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Response to DirkGently (Reply #1)

Sat May 5, 2012, 06:22 PM

4. Thank you. I will have to read that book. nm

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Response to DirkGently (Reply #1)

Sun May 6, 2012, 05:30 PM

18. 21st Century East India Company

 

This is nothing new. The British East India Company actually conquered and ran India for about 100 years . It is also widely forgotten that the East India Company was the one that precipitated the Boston Tea Party because it had secured a virtual monopoly of tea trading to the American colonies.

In fact the company flag is very similar to the USA flag today! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company

Corporations are inherently evil.

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Response to Hawkowl (Reply #18)

Sun May 6, 2012, 10:33 PM

20. It's kinda weird that I just read this morning that "the British East India Company

had conquered the last independent native state by 1848." I am taking Western Civ III.

And I thought of Exxon when I read that. Major corporations are independent sovereignty's. During WW II Standard oil did business with both the Allies and the Germans.

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Sat May 5, 2012, 03:47 PM

2. Exxon is a person. nt

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Sat May 5, 2012, 03:51 PM

3. Lee Raymond: "I'm not a U.S. company, and I don't make decisions based on what's good for the U.S."

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Response to steve2470 (Reply #3)

Sat May 5, 2012, 06:48 PM

5. A CEO's duty is to his stockholders

That's the legal and regulatory framework that corporate management works in.

Any solicitude for the nation, employees, customers, public, etc. is secondary and is pursued to the extent that it is consistent with benefiting the stockholders.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #5)

Sat May 5, 2012, 07:25 PM

6. So do you agree that Exxon is sovereign? nm

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #6)

Sat May 5, 2012, 10:51 PM

7. No. They are not a sovereign.

A sovereign excercises supreme governmental authority in a particular territory.

Exxon is a transnational corporation. It conducts business operations in multiple territories more or less in conformance with the laws of the multiple sovereigns. "More or less" because some territories may fancy that they have extraterritorial jurisdiction to impose conflicting laws on other territories, and various other territories may have relatively undeveloped legal systems.

For example, in some countries bribery is customary, yet the US attempts unilaterally to make it illegal if done by companies that also do business in the US.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #7)

Sat May 5, 2012, 11:07 PM

8. So is Exxon answerable to any particular nation? nm

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #8)

Sat May 5, 2012, 11:17 PM

10. No, it is answerable to dozens of nations.

From their web site:

We have refining operations in 26 countries, 42,000 retail service stations in more than 100 countries and lubricants marketing in almost 200 countries and territories.


We market petrochemical products in more than 150 countries. Ninety percent of our petrochemical assets are in businesses that are ranked number 1 or number 2 in market position.


http://www.exxonmobil.com/Corporate/Newsroom/Publications/XOMGlobalCap/page_2.html

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #10)

Sun May 6, 2012, 11:12 AM

11. I think most of those countries dance to their tune. nm

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Sat May 5, 2012, 11:09 PM

9. Uh, yes. And Coca Cola. And the KOCH brothers. And many many others. AND they can VOTE!1 n/t

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Response to UTUSN (Reply #9)

Sun May 6, 2012, 11:25 AM

12. Yes

Actually more than nations. Corporations will put themselves first almost always and they have the power. Corporations are alpha, nations beta. People don't matter, only as consumers.

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2012, 11:31 AM

13. I'm sick of their commercials supposedly supporting teachers and public education

If they spent the money they spent on those commercials and used it to REALLY support education, they could make a difference.

Or they could just pay their fucking taxes. That would help.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #13)

Wed May 9, 2012, 09:19 AM

29. They get double their money's worth with those commercials.

The commercials are aimed at improving their image so the public will sympathize with them if they destroy our environment. And the commercial income for the media, is plainly buying favorable media coverage.

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2012, 11:40 AM

14. Actually it's legally a person in the eyes of the Supreme Court of the USofA

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2012, 11:51 AM

15. It is not really fair to say they don't pay for anything.

Exxon paid $73 billion in all taxes over the last five years. That is more than most pay.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/how-much-do-oil-companies-really-pay-in-taxes/2011/05/11/AF7UNutG_story.html

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Response to former9thward (Reply #15)

Sun May 6, 2012, 04:45 PM

17. But Exxon Mobil’s tax rate is “lower than the average American’s,”

Daniel Weiss, an energy expert at CAP, countered in an analysis that put the company’s U.S. federal income tax rate in 2010 at just 17.2 percent.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/how-much-do-oil-companies-really-pay-in-taxes/2011/05/11/AF7UNutG_story.html

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #17)

Sun May 6, 2012, 07:09 PM

19. The average American does not have an effective 17.2% tax rate.

You have to be making fairly good money to be at that rate.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #19)

Sun May 6, 2012, 10:33 PM

21. What is the tax rate of the average American? And why are you defending Exxon? nm

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #21)

Mon May 7, 2012, 10:52 AM

22. I am not "defending" Exxon.

I just don't like falsehoods and hyperbole on the internet or anyplace else. So when someone says "Exxon does not pay anything" I am just pointing out that they are the nation's biggest taxpayer.

"The average effective federal tax rate for American taxpayers is 11%, according to an analysis of 2009 IRS data by the Tax Foundation, a non-profit research organization. For individuals with adjusted gross income of $50,000 or less, the average effective tax rate is less than 5%"

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/story/2012-01-19/romney-tax-rate/52682372/1

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Response to former9thward (Reply #22)

Mon May 7, 2012, 12:25 PM

23. Yes they are if you believe their propaganda.

But as Reuters explains, the oil industry uses a different methodology to claim it pays an artificially higher tax rate to the public. The industry “lumps together U.S. and foreign taxes. It includes taxes that are deferred and thus not paid yet. U.S. companies must pay taxes on profits earned abroad, but they can defer these taxes until they bring the cash into the country.”

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2012/03/26/452213/exxon-mobils-tax-rate-drops-to-13-percent-after-making-35-percent-more-profits-in-2011/

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #23)

Mon May 7, 2012, 01:16 PM

24. The Washington Post article does not include defered taxes.

Any corporation or individual -- not just the oil industry -- can defer taxes on money that is earned abroad. Nice try at changing the goalposts. Do you still say Exxon "pays nothing" as you put it?

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Response to former9thward (Reply #24)

Mon May 7, 2012, 02:57 PM

25. The article also says that Exxon paid zero income tax in 2009, in fact the taxpayers paid them

a refund of $156 million. In any case they are not nearly paying the corporate rate of 35%.

It's not meaning full just to say they pay a lot. They are the most profitable corporation in history. I stand by my statement that they dont pay for the services they get from the USofA. They sure didnt in 2009.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #22)

Wed May 9, 2012, 12:41 AM

26. There are lots of articles available re. the taxes that Exxon pays.

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2012, 11:52 AM

16. Ecological rape nation.

 

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Wed May 9, 2012, 12:46 AM

27. Yes... It Should Not Be... But Now.... Effectively... IT IS, YES !!!



& Rec !!!

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Response to WillyT (Reply #27)

Wed May 9, 2012, 12:50 AM

28. If they need help in "convincing" a small country to bow down to their wishes,

the have the USofA military at their disposal.

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