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Fri May 4, 2012, 06:56 PM

Baby died after mom left in SUV while at work

LEE'S SUMMIT, MO -
The mother of a baby who died yesterday accidentally left her infant son alone in her SUV all day, police said Friday.

Lee's Summit police said their investigation is ongoing.

"The preliminary investigation has revealed that the 13-month-old child was unintentionally left in a vehicle during daytime hours as the child's mother entered her workplace," police said.

The mother is a teacher at the Lee's Summit School District while her husband also works for the district.

more . . . http://www.kctv5.com/story/18149859/baby-died-after-mom-left-in-suv-while-at-work

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Reply Baby died after mom left in SUV while at work (Original post)
proud2BlibKansan May 2012 OP
cali May 2012 #1
proud2BlibKansan May 2012 #3
Fumesucker May 2012 #15
trotsky May 2012 #19
Iris May 2012 #83
cynatnite May 2012 #22
Iris May 2012 #94
Skinner May 2012 #121
msanthrope May 2012 #133
proud2BlibKansan May 2012 #134
Worried senior May 2012 #139
sibelian May 2012 #170
4th law of robotics May 2012 #23
Fumesucker May 2012 #26
4th law of robotics May 2012 #27
Fumesucker May 2012 #29
4th law of robotics May 2012 #32
cynatnite May 2012 #39
Fumesucker May 2012 #41
4th law of robotics May 2012 #45
Fumesucker May 2012 #50
4th law of robotics May 2012 #51
Fumesucker May 2012 #54
4th law of robotics May 2012 #90
Fumesucker May 2012 #102
4th law of robotics May 2012 #135
Fumesucker May 2012 #152
liberalhistorian May 2012 #110
Fumesucker May 2012 #40
4th law of robotics May 2012 #44
cynatnite May 2012 #49
Fumesucker May 2012 #52
Iris May 2012 #84
cynatnite May 2012 #30
ProdigalJunkMail May 2012 #37
tabasco May 2012 #24
Fumesucker May 2012 #28
tabasco May 2012 #34
Fumesucker May 2012 #38
yardwork May 2012 #104
cynatnite May 2012 #35
obamanut2012 May 2012 #56
yardwork May 2012 #103
obamanut2012 May 2012 #55
Odin2005 May 2012 #65
Fumesucker May 2012 #66
tabasco May 2012 #72
Fumesucker May 2012 #77
mythology May 2012 #120
Fumesucker May 2012 #158
CBHagman May 2012 #79
Fumesucker May 2012 #81
yardwork May 2012 #100
cali May 2012 #141
seabeyond May 2012 #181
dkf May 2012 #2
cynatnite May 2012 #4
proud2BlibKansan May 2012 #8
cynatnite May 2012 #13
Iris May 2012 #92
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seabeyond May 2012 #182
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4th law of robotics May 2012 #46
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cynatnite May 2012 #47
obamanut2012 May 2012 #60
CBHagman May 2012 #88
Iris May 2012 #85
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Iris May 2012 #91
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4th law of robotics May 2012 #137
Fumesucker May 2012 #165
4th law of robotics May 2012 #174
Fumesucker May 2012 #175
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Fumesucker May 2012 #179
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LeftyMom May 2012 #106
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4th law of robotics May 2012 #138
Marengo May 2012 #126
uppityperson May 2012 #154
riderinthestorm May 2012 #61
proud2BlibKansan May 2012 #70
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Iris May 2012 #86
Odin2005 May 2012 #62
cynatnite May 2012 #68
undeterred May 2012 #64
Number23 May 2012 #78
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Iris May 2012 #82
phylny May 2012 #95
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DesertRat May 2012 #105
SixString May 2012 #114
B Calm May 2012 #115
obamanut2012 May 2012 #123
Fumesucker May 2012 #116
obamanut2012 May 2012 #122
SixString May 2012 #125
uppityperson May 2012 #155
SixString May 2012 #160
undeterred May 2012 #143
sibelian May 2012 #171
Dorian Gray May 2012 #117
Union Scribe May 2012 #166
B2G May 2012 #119
obamanut2012 May 2012 #124
proud2BlibKansan May 2012 #130
B2G May 2012 #142
proud2BlibKansan May 2012 #145
B2G May 2012 #144
proud2BlibKansan May 2012 #146
Skinner May 2012 #127
proud2BlibKansan May 2012 #132
cynatnite May 2012 #147
OneTenthofOnePercent May 2012 #128
obamanut2012 May 2012 #153
msanthrope May 2012 #169
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hedgehog May 2012 #129
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tawadi May 2012 #136
varelse May 2012 #140
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lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #178
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proud2BlibKansan May 2012 #151
gulliver May 2012 #159
Beacool May 2012 #163
Fumesucker May 2012 #164
Beacool May 2012 #180
tallahasseedem May 2012 #177

Response to proud2BlibKansan (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 06:58 PM

1. I still don't get how you can forget your baby in the car or your dog or parakeet

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Response to cali (Reply #1)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:03 PM

3. I don't get it either.

Last edited Sat May 5, 2012, 11:01 AM - Edit history (1)

I can't even imagine.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #3)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:22 PM

15. It's comforting to us to blame the parents..

We tell ourselves I could *never* do that, we cannot let ourselves imagine doing such a thing to our own child.

If you could forget your wallet or your cell phone you could forget your child, our wetware is remarkably buggy in a lot of ways.

I read an article several years ago that basically said in virtually every case it's a disruption of the normal routine of the parent(s) that leads to this.

http://www.salon.com/2009/03/09/fatal_distraction/

The subhead of Gene Weingarten’s heartbreaking article in yesterday’s Washington Post asks an inflammatory question — “Forgetting a child in the back seat of a hot, parked car is a horrifying, inexcusable mistake. But is it a crime?” — but it’s a bit of a red herring. Weingarten makes it clear from the outset that his answer is no — and that, in any case, no punishment could match the life sentence of guilt that parents who have done so were handed the moment they realized what happened. Seeking to demonstrate how even the most conscientious parents can have a tragic lapse of memory, Weingarten not only interviewed 13 people who have endured the horror of killing their own children in a “perfect storm” of distraction and absent-mindedness, but also a memory expert, David Diamond, who explains why it could happen to any of us: “Memory is a machine, and it is not flawless. Our conscious mind prioritizes things by importance, but on a cellular level, our memory does not. If you’re capable of forgetting your cellphone, you are potentially capable of forgetting your child.”

As unbelievable as that statement may sound, Weingarten makes a strong case for its truth. In every instance he covers, the parents responsible were dealing with unusual interruptions in their morning routine, got distracted and believed they’d already dropped their children off at daycare or with the baby sitter — when in reality, they’d skipped that step and left the children in their parked cars as they went to work. Says Diamond, “The important factors that keep showing up involve a combination of stress, emotion, lack of sleep and change in routine, where the basal ganglia is trying to do what it’s supposed to do, and the conscious mind is too weakened to resist. What happens is that the memory circuits in a vulnerable hippocampus literally get overwritten, like with a computer program. Unless the memory circuit is rebooted — such as if the child cries … it can entirely disappear.” Weingarten makes it chillingly clear how the lack of that “reboot” can lead to parents sincerely believing their kids are safe in their daily routines while they’re actually dying. “Several people … have driven from their workplace to the day-care center to pick up the child they’d thought they’d dropped off, never noticing the corpse in the back seat. Then there is the Chattanooga, Tenn., business executive who must live with this: His motion-detector car alarm went off, three separate times, out there in the broiling sun. But when he looked out, he couldn’t see anyone tampering with the car. So he remotely deactivated the alarm and went calmly back to work.”

“I was that guy, before. I’d read the stories, and I’d go, ‘What were those parents thinking?’” says Mikey Terry, whose 6-month-old daughter, Mika, died of hyperthermia after he left her in a car while he went to work driving a truck, only to realize what he’d done when he was 40 long miles away. For those of us who haven’t experienced such a tragedy, perhaps the most disturbing element of Weingarten’s article is how he indicts us for our knee-jerk judgments of these parents, our insistence that we would never be so careless. He quotes psychologist Ed Hickling, who’s studied the effects of fatal car accidents on the surviving drivers: “We want to believe that the world is understandable and controllable and unthreatening, that if we follow the rules, we’ll be okay. So, when this kind of thing happens to other people, we need to put them in a different category from us. We don’t want to resemble them, and the fact that we might is too terrifying to deal with. So, they have to be monsters.” Weingarten follows that up with an example of one of the comments on a Charlottesville News Web site article about Lyn Balfour, who left her son, Bryce, to perish in her car: “If she had too many things on her mind then she should have kept her legs closed and not had any kids. They should lock her in a car during a hot day and see what happens.”

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #15)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:26 PM

19. These threads are always so damn ugly.

I'm going to repeat an excerpt from your article because it's so appropriate:
“We want to believe that the world is understandable and controllable and unthreatening, that if we follow the rules, we’ll be okay. So, when this kind of thing happens to other people, we need to put them in a different category from us. We don’t want to resemble them, and the fact that we might is too terrifying to deal with. So, they have to be monsters.” Weingarten follows that up with an example of one of the comments on a Charlottesville News Web site article about Lyn Balfour, who left her son, Bryce, to perish in her car: “If she had too many things on her mind then she should have kept her legs closed and not had any kids. They should lock her in a car during a hot day and see what happens.”

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Response to trotsky (Reply #19)

Fri May 4, 2012, 10:39 PM

83. Just so ridiculous. Do people who post shit like that on forums EVER do any kind of

self-examination?

Fortunately, this thread has taken a turn for the better, in case you haven't looked further down lately.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #15)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:30 PM

22. This sounds like what happened with me...

That day I almost forgot my daughter seemed as normal as any other day. I don't know what happened for me to have forgotten. My husband and I were working and going to college full time. We had another older daughter. We had full schedules that kept us going constantly.

It was like any other day, too. For some reason that I cannot explain I just bypassed the daycare altogether and went to work. Temperatures were below freezing.

Thinking about all this now has me just about crying because I know how close I came to killing my baby girl. Even though it was many years ago, it still feels like yesterday.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #22)

Fri May 4, 2012, 11:14 PM

94. It is so brave of you to post this.

Thank you.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #22)

Sat May 5, 2012, 09:33 AM

121. I have twice driven past daycare on my way to work, with two of my boys in the back seat.

They are 5 and 3, and both times they recognized the error immediately and told me.

But reading this thread does give me chills. Could such a thing happen if only my third child were in the back seat? He is only 8 months old and could not notice such an error or tell me about it. He is so even-tempered that he rarely even cries. It pains me to say it, but I think it is not completely impossible that this could happen.

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Response to Skinner (Reply #121)

Sat May 5, 2012, 11:03 AM

133. I did it--I posted about it in post #131. nt

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Response to Skinner (Reply #121)

Sat May 5, 2012, 11:06 AM

134. When my kids were little, my dad used to tell me

"You just can never be careful enough".

He said that so many times it was sort of like a family joke that he was so protective.

But he was correct. You really never CAN BE careful enough.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #22)

Sat May 5, 2012, 11:19 AM

139. Things happen

many years ago my cousin who had six or seven children at the time went to town which was several miles away. Half way there she realized she'd left the baby at home. Anything could have happened there too, luckily it didn't but it could have. She was not the type to have done anything to hurt one of her kids, she was busy, tired and her husband was on the road, everything depended on her.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #22)

Sun May 6, 2012, 08:39 AM

170. It's very important that you've posted this here.


Thank you for sharing your experience and insight.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #15)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:30 PM

23. The parent is to blame

 

it was her responsibility and she failed in it.

Who else is at fault?

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #23)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:35 PM

26. How can you punish them worse than the punishment they will live for the rest of their lives with?

“I was that guy, before. I’d read the stories, and I’d go, ‘What were those parents thinking?’” says Mikey Terry, whose 6-month-old daughter, Mika, died of hyperthermia after he left her in a car while he went to work driving a truck, only to realize what he’d done when he was 40 long miles away. For those of us who haven’t experienced such a tragedy, perhaps the most disturbing element of Weingarten’s article is how he indicts us for our knee-jerk judgments of these parents, our insistence that we would never be so careless.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #26)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:35 PM

27. I never said she should go to jail

 

but it was her fault.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #27)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:38 PM

29. It could never happen to you, right?

You're better than those bad parents..

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #29)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:39 PM

32. Well, yeah

 

you're making like this is no different than forgetting your wallet.

Difference of course being that one is a human child that dies in agony whereas the other is just a few strips of leather.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #32)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:44 PM

39. Because it is that simple...you just forget...

You're not being neglectful or abusive. This is why these parents are rarely charged in cases like this. These are tragic accidents.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #39)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:49 PM

41. Interesting how the article predicts so accurately some people's reactions..

I'm sorry for your upset, I can but imagine what that near miss felt like to you..

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #41)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:55 PM

45. I can accurately predict how most people will respond to a variety of stories

 

doesn't make their responses wrong.

For instance: priest molests dozens of kids, gets away with it.

Probably anger, disgust, disbelief, and the like.

Predicting that in advance doesn't make those responses unjustified.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #45)

Fri May 4, 2012, 08:01 PM

50. So you think it could never happen to you..

Positronic brains don't forget, flesh and blood is more fallible.



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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #50)

Fri May 4, 2012, 08:03 PM

51. You keep saying that "so you think it could never happen to you"

 

as if it were an argument to itself. I keep hearing "dun dun DUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!" music in the background every time I read that.


For 99.9999% of parents out there it's true: they never thought it could happen to them and it didn't.

That's why these cases are extremely rare.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #51)

Fri May 4, 2012, 08:06 PM

54. As I said in my first post, you have a psychological need to see these parents as different from you

In some basic way they are not you, you could never ever do that.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #54)

Fri May 4, 2012, 11:07 PM

90. I see a lot of people as different from me

 

murderers, child molesters, rapists and so on.

I suspect you do as well and say things like "I would never rape a child". Is that true? Because by your logic that makes you sick and proves you in fact would do that.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #90)

Fri May 4, 2012, 11:22 PM

102. A deliberate act is not the same thing as an error, a mistake..

I would never deliberately drive into a crowd of people, I can easily envision a scenario where I drive into a crowd of people by accident, brakes fail, steering fails, tire blows, oil slick on the road from a broken car, stroke, heart attack, seizure, fall asleep.

It's two entirely different things, you are trying to claim that an accident will never befall you.

Here's someone else it *almost* happened to, they aren't guilty of anything, they didn't kill their child.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002645828#post79

You see my bias in this matter. I make no excuses for it. I have the facts, just as you do; the main difference is that, probably unlike you, I understand on an uncomfortably personal level that this unthinkable, impossible horror could befall anyone.

I feel no sense of superiority to any of those parents whose children did not happen to wake up and say something. I am alert to the ironies of life and death. I recognize that it is simply a matter of chance that Molly is not a pile of small bones in the dirt in Florida, but alive and working today in a clinic a few miles away from me, as a veterinarian.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #102)

Sat May 5, 2012, 11:07 AM

135. " I can easily envision a scenario . . . "

 

Every one of those scenarios results from something you had no control over.

Your breaks going out =/= forgetting about something.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #135)

Sat May 5, 2012, 01:25 PM

152. You do not have complete control over your memory unless Susan Calvin really was your designer..

You have the illusion of control but your conscious mind does not control your memory absolutely.

I find it hard to believe that a human being can reach adulthood and never once had a brain fart, never once spaced something out because they became distracted, never once made a stupid mistake that cost them in some way.

Falling asleep is one of the scenarios I listed, are you admitting that a person can fall asleep without intending to when it might endanger themselves and or others? If so then you admit we don't even control our own consciousness absolutely.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #39)

Sat May 5, 2012, 12:07 AM

110. In many areas, whether or not

they're charged frankly depends on their race and socioeconomic status. Whenever this happened in the area I lived in in my former state of Ohio, you could predict the charges like clockwork based on their race and where they lived. If it was a black or other non-white parent living in a poorer neighborhood, charges would almost always be filed, with the maximum sentence requested and continual demonization of the parent in the media and public. If it was a white suburban or upper-class parent, no charges and sympathetic clucking from the media and public about how horrible it was for the parent and it was just a tragic accident. Like clockwork.

I know that's not the case everywhere, but it is in a lot of areas. In my current state, with a large native american population, the same can be said for white versus Indian parents. An Indian parent merely looks at their child in a seemingly wrong way, and down comes the hammer of the law and social services.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #32)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:46 PM

40. As far as our memory is concerned it is no different than forgetting your wallet..

I have grandkids, raised a child myself, I don't want to think that I could have done such a thing but I have to be honest with myself and realize that given a perfect storm of circumstances I could have..



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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #40)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:53 PM

44. One would think a child would be more significant

 

perhaps if you are incapable of remembering such things having a child is not the best course of action?

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #44)

Fri May 4, 2012, 08:01 PM

49. No one is saying a child is equivilant to a wallet...

It's not a matter of viewing your child as insignificant either. People forget. It's a difficult concept for you to grasp, but it happens to the best of parents. It's tragic, but it's the truth.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #44)

Fri May 4, 2012, 08:03 PM

52. Here's someone it happened to talking about the experience..

“I was that guy, before. I’d read the stories, and I’d go, ‘What were those parents thinking?’” says Mikey Terry, whose 6-month-old daughter, Mika, died of hyperthermia after he left her in a car while he went to work driving a truck, only to realize what he’d done when he was 40 long miles away.

Argue with that person, they thought just like you that it could never happen to them..

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #52)

Fri May 4, 2012, 10:40 PM

84. Denial.

It's not just a river in Egypt.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #27)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:38 PM

30. Trust me...she knows...

If she doesn't commit suicide over this, she will be in a prison of her own making as a result. No one will punish her worse than she is punishing herself.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #30)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:42 PM

37. indeed... n/t

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #15)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:33 PM

24. Tell that to the baby

who broiled to death.

"Just a simple oversight - like forgetting your wallet - hahaha."

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Response to tabasco (Reply #24)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:36 PM

28. None of us are perfect..

As the article points out our conscious minds prioritize but our memory does not..

And you are doing exactly what the article said you would, pretending it could never happen to you.

“I was that guy, before. I’d read the stories, and I’d go, ‘What were those parents thinking?’” says Mikey Terry, whose 6-month-old daughter, Mika, died of hyperthermia after he left her in a car while he went to work driving a truck, only to realize what he’d done when he was 40 long miles away. For those of us who haven’t experienced such a tragedy, perhaps the most disturbing element of Weingarten’s article is how he indicts us for our knee-jerk judgments of these parents, our insistence that we would never be so careless.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #28)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:40 PM

34. Perfect is a long fucking way

from leaving a baby to broil in a backseat.

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Response to tabasco (Reply #34)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:44 PM

38. In other words it you think it could never happen to you..

Just as the author of the article predicts..

It scares you to think that you might do something like that, you *have* to believe that there was something wrong with these parents.



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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #38)

Fri May 4, 2012, 11:25 PM

104. I'm impressed with your calm and persistent responses here.

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Response to tabasco (Reply #24)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:40 PM

35. I forgot my daughter...

It was below freezing in Montana and I just happened to glance at the backseat when I got out of my car. I forgot my baby girl and nearly killed her.

It can happen to the best of us.

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Response to tabasco (Reply #24)

Fri May 4, 2012, 08:11 PM

56. Which posters are laughing at this???

If any have, link to the posts, and I'll alert.

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Response to tabasco (Reply #24)

Fri May 4, 2012, 11:25 PM

103. Nobody is laughing.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #15)

Fri May 4, 2012, 08:07 PM

55. Every single one of these parents thought they could NEVER do this

Great post.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #15)

Fri May 4, 2012, 08:44 PM

65. Comparing childen to cell phones is idiotic.

a cell phone is a thing, a child is a human being you have an intense human bond to. we have protective instincts towards kids that we do not have to our stuff. IMO treating forgetting a thing and forgeting a child as if they were similar is simply flawed.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #65)

Fri May 4, 2012, 08:47 PM

66. Tell it to the cognitive science researchers..

Tell it to this guy..

“I was that guy, before. I’d read the stories, and I’d go, ‘What were those parents thinking?’” says Mikey Terry, whose 6-month-old daughter, Mika, died of hyperthermia after he left her in a car while he went to work driving a truck, only to realize what he’d done when he was 40 long miles away.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #66)

Fri May 4, 2012, 09:25 PM

72. A culpable person defends himself!

You've convinced me! These are just minor booboos like forgetting your cell phone.

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Response to tabasco (Reply #72)

Fri May 4, 2012, 09:43 PM

77. Our conscious mind uses our memory as a tool but it doesn't control it completely.

You cannot accept that it just might happen to you or someone you love or care about, they all have to be "bad parents", different somehow from you and your loved ones.

This is a lot more like lightning than you can allow yourself to believe, it could happen to anyone given the perfect storm of circumstances combined with what would otherwise be as you put it, a minor booboo.

The minor booboo can turn into tragedy for anyone given the right set of circumstances, that's the point of what the research both of actual incidents and cognitive science shows.



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Response to tabasco (Reply #72)

Sat May 5, 2012, 09:30 AM

120. Well if it didn't convince you the first time,

you could try reading the other dozen or so times it's been posted as if that one account is simply irrefutable across every possible case.

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Response to mythology (Reply #120)

Sat May 5, 2012, 02:28 PM

158. The sparing use of emoticons showed the poster was a really serious person.

Someone who who was celebrating their own personal lack of infallibility.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #15)

Fri May 4, 2012, 10:01 PM

79. Thanks for posting that, Fumesucker. I immediately thought of Gene Weingarten's articles.

Here's his own experience in this matter:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/another-child-dies-in-a-hot-car-and-gene-weingarten-asks-why-was-this-a-crime/2012/03/14/gIQAXm01ES_story.html

“Murder” is an unforgiving term for what nearly happened that day, but to prosecutors in Prince William County, it is appropriate. That was the charge they brought last year against Bristow veterinarian Karen Murphy, whose 2-year-old, Ryan, did not do what my 2-year-old, Molly, did on the day I almost killed her: wake up at the last minute and say something.

So I didn’t park and lock my car and head into my office that morning, as Murphy did last June 17. Instead, after steadying my nerves against the knowledge of what I’d almost done, I drove my daughter to day care, as I’d meant to do before I somehow — inexplicably, inexcusably — forgot that she was sitting in the back seat.


(SNIP)

You see my bias in this matter. I make no excuses for it. I have the facts, just as you do; the main difference is that, probably unlike you, I understand on an uncomfortably personal level that this unthinkable, impossible horror could befall anyone.

I feel no sense of superiority to any of those parents whose children did not happen to wake up and say something. I am alert to the ironies of life and death. I recognize that it is simply a matter of chance that Molly is not a pile of small bones in the dirt in Florida, but alive and working today in a clinic a few miles away from me, as a veterinarian.


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Response to CBHagman (Reply #79)

Fri May 4, 2012, 10:16 PM

81. I hadn't seen that before.

Interesting and chilling read for sure..

I recognize that it is simply a matter of chance that Molly is not a pile of small bones in the dirt in Florida, but alive and working today in a clinic a few miles away from me, as a veterinarian.

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Response to cali (Reply #1)

Fri May 4, 2012, 11:20 PM

100. I do. I am a parent. I can imagine this happening. It never happened to me, but it could happen.

The key to remember is that babies are in their carseats in the back of the car, and the parents are up front in the driver's seat. Parents can't see their children in the back. The baby falls asleep. You're driving to work. Instead of driving to day care first, you absentmindendly forget and drive straight to work. There is no reminder, nothing to tell you that you have forgotten something crucial.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #100)

Sat May 5, 2012, 11:25 AM

141. I'm also a parent. I never, no matter how harried I was

Last edited Sat May 5, 2012, 11:57 AM - Edit history (1)

or how off kilter, forgot I had a baby in a car seat. And the reminder is that I put my baby in the car seat.

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Response to cali (Reply #1)

Sun May 6, 2012, 01:30 PM

181. i get it. i had the baby almost exclusively. it was as natural as anything for me

to know the babies were there. my husband on the other hand rarely had the babies. emerged in work.... quiet, routine, mind on auto, i get it.

accidents happen. please let me take the moment as a do over. we dont get that. the do over. but i get it.

my cousin about a year ago ran over his two yr old in the drive. was in a fenced area next to drive way. the om was out there with the child. for a minute, maybe two, she ran in for a soda. he didnt even think about the child out of the yard. ran over child. do over. we dont get that.

these are accident, true real accidents in hindsight so preventable.

but i get it.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:01 PM

2. Poor thing. :(

 

Baby and mom.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:03 PM

4. It almost happened to me...

Years ago when my daughter was a baby, I forgot to take my daughter to daycare. This was in Montana during the middle of winter. When I got there, I got out of my car and happened to glance and there she was just sitting there in her carseat as quiet as can be.

It freaked me out to no end. I didn't sleep for a week it seems like. All I could see was her sitting in the freezing car all day long.

I'm glad I was able to see her. She was always a quiet baby and to this day I can't explain how I could have forgotten my baby girl. Even now, over 20 years later, it still rattles me to the core.

My heart goes out to this poor mother.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #4)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:10 PM

8. I'm a space cadet.

I routinely lose car keys, clothes, purses, my wallet. This year I lost our tax return for a week. I've left the grocery store without all my groceries. I've spent time looking for my cell phone while it was in my hand.

But never once did I ever lose one of my kids or leave them in a car seat.

Maybe because I am used to losing things, I was hyperfocused on making sure I knew where my kids were when they were younger. I was afraid every day I would do something stupid and they would get hurt.

So I just can't relate. Sorry.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #8)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:20 PM

13. Both my husband and I were working full time and attending college...

and we had two daughters.

We had our hands full as it is.

Not that it is an excuse, but I can understand how something like this does happen. I was never one to lose or misplace anything. I'm a pretty organized person who loves routine. For some reason that day, I completely bypassed the daycare and went straight to work.

I can't tell you out much it scared me and thinking about it now still rattles me. If I had left my daughter and lost her in this way, I know I would have killed myself. I have no doubt about it.

This mother is probably on the verge of suicide after this. This is a tragic accident and she will live with this for the rest of her life and no prison in the world can punish her more than she is punishing herself.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #13)

Fri May 4, 2012, 11:12 PM

92. And who hasn't done something on autopilot before?

It's a VERY common experience and having a child does not make you immune to it.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #4)

Fri May 4, 2012, 09:31 PM

73. I can tell that you are still so horrified by what happened

and what COULD have happened. Every parent has a story like this.

Please try not to be so hard on yourself though I completely understand what you're going through.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #4)

Sun May 6, 2012, 01:33 PM

182. " I can't explain how I could have forgotten my baby girl" i think probably if honest

one way or another, we have all experienced something with our babies that we said... woosh, came out a happy ending. but what if

i think that is why many of us can understand this.

it may not be this exact situation, but somewhere, sometime, our mind went elsewhere and we were lucky.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:04 PM

5. BRING CAR SEATS BACK TO THE FRONT SEAT! This never happened till they are forced to be in

 

the back where they fall asleep. Maybe mom and dad share dropping baby off, and ... it happens.

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Response to Lionessa (Reply #5)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:06 PM

6. Front seats are more dangerous...

The airbags in the front have been known to kill. Not only that, in an accident a baby is more protected in the back rather than the front. It's not likely to change anytime soon.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #6)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:39 PM

31. Airbags can be turned off. Car seats designed for front seat safety.

 

I understand and truly am glad that my kids were young when car seats were still allowed in the front seat. I could quickly right a tipped bottle or re-plug a binkie and easy things like that rather than listening to crying or screaming, I also could keep track of whether they were choking or anything like that.... Back seat just isn't tendable, and it is our jobs to tend our babies.

Fix the seats, fix the cars, bring the baby seats back to the front so parents can do the job right without making dangerous back seat reaches, looks, and/or not remembering to tend them whence they fall asleep and are quiet.

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Response to Lionessa (Reply #31)

Fri May 4, 2012, 08:24 PM

58. Even without airbags ...

... the middle of the back seat is still the safest place in the car.


These are tragedies, but so are the greater number of babies who would die in accidents were they seated up front.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #6)

Sat May 5, 2012, 12:56 AM

113. it is still possible to compare deaths via each mode and select the optimum route.

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Response to Lionessa (Reply #5)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:13 PM

9. How about putting the diaper bag or something the child needs in the front seat?

Seeing that reminds you the baby is still in the car.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #9)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:27 PM

20. That is a very good idea.

It is so tragic when parents forget due to the hectic workday. I can almost see how that could happen.

That is sad.

The ones I cannot forgive are the ones who leave kids in the car to die while they are in a store playing video poker. That happens a lot in NC. In those cases, they KNOW the kid is in the car for hours on end on a 95+ degree day. Those are the ones I feel contempt for.

Some kind of reminder in the front seat is a very good idea.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #9)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:34 PM

25. Excellent counter idea. That would work. Let's spread it around, clearly it's needed since

 

it seems since car seats are forced to the back, I've read at least one a year of this happening, iirc.

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Response to Lionessa (Reply #25)

Fri May 4, 2012, 09:00 PM

67. Another possibility for new cars - have an alarm go off if too much weight in the child seat spot

when the keys leave the vehicle.

I'm thinking of my fairly new Prius. It has some weight detector thing in the front that turns off the air bag if it thinks a child is there (usually it's my laptop bag). So, you could have an optional detector for the back seat that parents could activate. Then if they get out of the car with the child still in the seat, the alarm would go off to remind them to check the seat. For people who don't cart kids around regualarly, they could deactivate it.

I don't know if it would work. It would probably have to be more sensitive than the front seat thing in my car. But maybe it would work.

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Response to MH1 (Reply #67)

Fri May 4, 2012, 11:17 PM

97. Perfect idea for this issue, but still it is really hard to do the

 

minor but necessary tending of babies when Mom's in front and baby's in back without creating a driving issue.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #9)

Fri May 4, 2012, 10:56 PM

87. I took off one shoe. It reminded me when I put it on that I needed to remember something.

A tip that I used not related to baby but a tip I used when I started for work in the dark and had my lights on by the time I got to work headlights weren't necessary.

Shoe off, headlights off.

Now that most cars have auto headlight shut off, it would be shoe off, baby in the back seat,

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #9)

Sat May 5, 2012, 02:27 PM

157. That's a good idea

So is making it a habit to check the backseat. Or, putting a sticky note on your dash "remember to check the backseat".

I won't sit here and judge. I've never forgotten my children, but when my kids were babies, I was a stay at home mom. Now that I'm a single mom who is a full time student, I'm much more harried, and forget things often. My kids are old enough now that I don't have to worry about leaving them, but I've done dumb things like drive past the turn off to their school, or their babysitter. I can totally see a scenario with a quiet, sleeping child and a harried parent late for work where the nightmare scenario plays out. Thankfully, for me, I've never had to deal with dropping off a baby to daycare. Also, thankfully, it's so rarely hot where I live, that when it IS hot, I'm a tad paranoid and check my car (and other cars in the parking lot) for animals and babies. I can see where it's always hot, you forget about the dangers of rising temps in the car because of complacency.

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Response to Lionessa (Reply #5)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:39 PM

33. Then they get killed by the airbag.

That's a lot more common than people who can't keep track of their kids.

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Response to LeftyMom (Reply #33)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:42 PM

36. Airbags can be turned off these days. Didn't you know?

 

At least my daughter's Honda can. Mine is older and can't. But I have no doubt that through a mechanic it can be temporarily disabled.

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Response to Lionessa (Reply #36)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:58 PM

48. Generally only vehicles with no back seat have that feature.

Disabling the front passenger airbag is generally only recommended if there is no rear seat option for a small child. Doing so permanently (and there are legal limitations on doing so) endangers any adults who use that seat. Also, children are significantly safer in a rear seat anyhow, as this generally places them farther in the passenger cabin and reduces the energy their bodies absorb in a collision.

The risk of absent-minded parents is thankfully small, while collisions are the #1 cause of accidental death in children. Reducing accident risk by placing the child in the rear seat in a properly installed safety seat is just about the most important thing that can be done to protect their health as small children.

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Response to LeftyMom (Reply #48)

Fri May 4, 2012, 08:04 PM

53. My daughter's 4 door Honda has a switch, not a permanent disable of the bag.

 

Anyway, 4 door sedan, back seats and a switch for turning off the front passenger airbag.

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Response to Lionessa (Reply #53)

Fri May 4, 2012, 08:14 PM

57. That's unusual. Most cars don't, and the LATCH anchors are generally only in back.

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Response to LeftyMom (Reply #57)

Fri May 4, 2012, 08:24 PM

59. My point is to re-design rather than continue with BS reasons to keep them in the back, fix it.

 

It isn't at all hard to put in proper anchors, disable-able airbags, carseats designed for the front seat, etc.

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Response to Lionessa (Reply #59)

Fri May 4, 2012, 08:38 PM

63. The back seat is still safer because it's the farthest point from the point of impact.

Ideally the most vulnerable passenger should be in the most protected seat, which is generally the rear center.

The risk of a collision is infinitely higher than the risk of a space cadet parent who can't keep track of their kid.

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Response to LeftyMom (Reply #63)

Fri May 4, 2012, 11:22 PM

101. It isn't safer when it makes the driver less safe in his/her actions trying to tend

 

a child in the backseat that can't tend itself.

Cars are so much safer as well as the car seats, and if you want to put the center back seat, fine, but I don't think it should be mandated but instead safer car seats, better design for front seat usage, and then the freedom to make that choice parent by parent without having to trade one type of safety for another but rather can choose the one that fits their driving style, their kids' needs (which as they get older a lot of the tending needs go down and I moved them to the back seat, but before 2yo, I didn't and wouldn't), and so on.

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Response to Lionessa (Reply #101)

Sat May 5, 2012, 12:02 AM

107. The data on the matter don't reflect your view.

Every related organization strongly suggests keeping kids in the back seat until they're adolescent and roughly adult sized. Front seat restraints aren't really designed for anybody smaller than a small adult.

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Response to LeftyMom (Reply #48)

Fri May 4, 2012, 09:04 PM

69. My Prius automatically disables the front airbag if a certain weight range is in the front seat.

in other words, if it "thinks" there's a child in the seat. I'm not sure what the weight range is. There's a warning light in the dash when the airbag is deactivated. I've never seen the light come on when there's an adult in the seat.

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Response to MH1 (Reply #69)

Fri May 4, 2012, 09:21 PM

71. A lot of cars do that.

But the child in this situation was 13 months old. That's way too big for a rear facing car seat. So he belongs in the back seat, not the front.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #71)

Fri May 4, 2012, 09:37 PM

75. That's too big for an infant seat,

but barely big enough for a front facing seat to even be an option. A rear facing convertible would still be the best choice to protect that child, because they reduce the risk of spinal injuries in particular. Ideally a child should remain rear-facing until they reach the upper weight limit for doing so, usually somewhere in the 40 lb range. I had to turn my kid around at 12 mos because he was 35 lbs then (which was the highest rear facing weight limit on any seat in the US at the time) but most kids can be rear faced until they're toddlers or even preschoolers.

http://www.car-safety.org/rearface.html

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Response to LeftyMom (Reply #48)

Fri May 4, 2012, 09:37 PM

76. Mine go off automatically

if they detect a child or something lightweight in the front seat.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:09 PM

7. I'm praying for this family...

We can never judge. We don't know what people deal with on a daily basis. People are over scheduled, overwhelmed, and extremely preoccupied with the anxiety of managing their daily lives.

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Response to dhood8083 (Reply #7)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:24 PM

18. +1

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:16 PM

10. a tragedy

it happened at a a bank down the road, I think of it whenever I drive by. It happens to good parents. They have a routine, take baby to day care, somedays the husband, somedays the wife. They are busy, full time jobs, households. Routine is disrupted, they rush in to work. It happens to good people, and I can't judge them. They will live with the horror and shame the rest of their lives.
So sad.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:17 PM

11. sad.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:20 PM

12. omg how tragic.

 

my heart aches for the parents and family. *cries.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:21 PM

14. This happens every year, and is just so sad

I cannot imagine how these poor parents feel.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Original post)


Response to proud2BlibKansan (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:24 PM

17. Sadly it does happen

It happened to an elementery school principal in this area last year. Two hrs later she went to get something out of the car and there he was asleep. She called 911 herself, to come to the scene. Said she wanted the public to know it can happen to anybody

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:28 PM

21. Such a sad thing. I worry about my

grandson being left in a car. Things are so hectic for most people that it can happen to anyone. I think the best advice is to put something you need next to the carseat. Even one of your shoes if necessary. Here in Florida we mostly wear flip flops anyway, and the heat is really intense.

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Response to Riley18 (Reply #21)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:50 PM

42. that is really a fantastic idea!

Anything that snaps a tired parent out of autopilot would be great. The shoe idea probably wouldn't work for the people who drive stick shifts, but what a great idea for everybody else!

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Response to Riley18 (Reply #21)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:56 PM

46. I've read articles where they recommend leaving your cellphone in the car seat

 

people will *not* forget their cellphones.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:51 PM

43. As a society I think we need to warn more people away from parenting instead of idealizing it.

It's hard work, parts of it suck, and not everybody's good at it. Not only that, you have to learn the hardest part of the job while you're sleep deprived, hormonal and generally feel like utter shit, and the baby's got colic is teething, and wants to eat every hour and a half. It gets better after that, but that first six months or so is pure hell, and anybody who tells you any different is blocking most of it out.

It's not like most other tasks a person takes on, because if you suck at it you will ruin somebody's life. Knowing your limits well enough not to take on a responsibility you can't manage is ok. Hell, it's admirable.

If you can't keep track of where your kid is while you're tired, busy, upset, whatever, you really shouldn't have one. Nothing against you but why take on an enormous responsibility you're not well suited for?

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Response to LeftyMom (Reply #43)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:58 PM

47. Actually, I think we need to be more supportive of parents...

Pay one parent to be home with the child full time for a few years. Don't put pressure on parents to be superparents.

When I had my near miss with my daughter my husband and I both worked full time and went to college. We had an older daughter as well. We were always on the go constantly. Looking back, I often wonder how we got through it or why the hell we pushed ourselves like this.

Parents should be encouraged and supported to have the ability to slow down and spend more quality time with their kids. I don't think we necessarily need to warn people away from it...just helping them figure out the best timing and doing more to support them.

Of course, the "families first" crowd on the right would scream their heads off.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #47)

Fri May 4, 2012, 08:32 PM

60. You and LeftyMom are BOTH right

imo.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #47)

Fri May 4, 2012, 10:57 PM

88. And let's not forget a case where the entire family forgot the child.

There was an incredibly sad case in Virginia some years back in which a little girl died after being left in her car seat. Not only her father but also her older siblings evidently didn't realize she was missing until it was far too late...and she was literally steps away from the family all the time.

Let's face it: People are far more vulnerable than we acknowledge most of the time.



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Response to LeftyMom (Reply #43)

Fri May 4, 2012, 10:42 PM

85. So, only the superhuman should procreate?

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Response to Iris (Reply #85)

Fri May 4, 2012, 11:05 PM

89. Clearly only the superhuman are capable of not killing their kids through neglect

 

which is why our species went extinct one generation after coming in to existence.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #89)

Fri May 4, 2012, 11:11 PM

91. Have you read any of the posts here that are outside your filter bubble?

Like the ones discussing cognitive psychology studies that indicate this is way more than simply neglect?

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Response to Iris (Reply #91)

Fri May 4, 2012, 11:13 PM

93. Yeah there really haven't been any legitimate studies posted

 

one guy goes on and on reposting the same quote by someone who says it could never happen to them. Was that what you meant?

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #93)

Fri May 4, 2012, 11:16 PM

96. Have you ever experienced doing something on autopilot?

Not only that, but these sorts of phenomena happen with changes in technology. When i was a kid, people were backing over their children in the driveway. So much so that there were PSA's about it to warn people. In fact, this year, when the weather got warmer, I started hearing PSA's aimed at parents encouraging them to make a habit of checking the back seat. Part of this comes from the move of baby car seats from the front seat to the back seat for safety reasons. There's so much more to these stories than someone was just being a horrible parent.

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Response to Iris (Reply #96)

Sat May 5, 2012, 11:13 AM

137. You and I must define "horrible parent" differently

 

I would say a horrible parent is one who kills his/her child.

Saying this used to happen as well only proves there were neglectful parents before 2012, a claim no one has argued against.

And some things you don't get a break for doing on "autopilot".

A surgeon zones out and kills his patient. Good doctor or not?

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #137)

Sun May 6, 2012, 04:10 AM

165. You are still convinced it could never happen to you..

Skinner come on the thread and pointed out that those who are convinced it could never happen to them may be more likely to have it happen. The unsure parent might take that final look in the back when they park at work, just because they have a tiny doubt.

The person safely wrapped in their own infallibility won't bother to check, they're perfect and would never do something stupid.

Edited for speling.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #165)

Sun May 6, 2012, 10:39 AM

174. Pure conjecture

 

"if you say it can't happen to you maybe you're the one *most* likely to have it happen!"

And you can stop with that silly "you are still convinced it could never happen to you" you've been c/ping over this thread. Yes: it will not happen to me.

And there is a huge difference between believing you are infallible and simply remembering not to slow cook your kid.

You claim it is only perfection that allows a parent to not kill their kid this way. No one else is making that argument.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #174)

Sun May 6, 2012, 10:59 AM

175. It is either perfection or luck..

We've even had at least two DUers come on here and say how they forgot their child, in both cases it didn't end in disaster but it could have.

Not every incidence of memory lapse ends up in tragedy, but some small percentage do.

How often do people driving multi ton vehicles at high velocities forget to pay attention to what they're doing and cause crashes because they're talking on the cell phone?

Given that we are dealing with human beings, perfection is out of the question, the only other thing left is luck.

With kids in the back seat, out of sight of the driver, some small random selection of drivers is going to forget their kid in the car, it's about twenty to thirty per year in the US, people from every walk of life, every race, every class.

Next time you park at work, will you think about this conversation and maybe take a glance in the back seat, just to be absolutely positive?

You might as well say that you'll never get hit by lightning.








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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #175)

Sun May 6, 2012, 11:08 AM

176. "You might as well say that you'll never get hit by lightning."

 

You insist on relating this to things you have no control over.

A parent cannot control the weather, unless they have x-men powers.

A parent can control where they leave the kid.

You also believe it's sheer chance that some people *don't* murder their kids. I guess most every parent is extremely lucky then. Amazing we've managed to survive when children don't even warrant a passing thought.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #176)

Sun May 6, 2012, 11:41 AM

179. Where did I say it's sheer chance that parents don't murder their kids?

You are arguing that people have perfect control over their memory, I am arguing that they do not, cognitive science is heavily on my side of the argument.

Is the fourth law of robotics "I will refuse to admit humans are imperfect"?




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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #179)

Sun May 6, 2012, 07:34 PM

184. You keep making the comparison to things like brakes going out or lightning

 

those are chance events.

You are the one who put the element of randomness in to it. If you can't control getting struck by lightning you can't control leaving your kid in a hot car.

That's the analogy you made. Not me.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #184)

Sun May 6, 2012, 07:49 PM

185. It is a chance event, that's what you fail to understand..

And since when is a chance event murder?

Given the right set of circumstances it can happen to anyone, about 20 - 30 per year in the USA, randomly distributed like lightning strikes.

I've been in a car that was hit by lightning.

You are the one arguing that human beings have perfect control over their memories, never get distracted, never make mistakes.

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Response to Iris (Reply #85)

Sat May 5, 2012, 12:00 AM

106. Yes. Only Superman can keep track of where his kid is.

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Response to LeftyMom (Reply #106)

Sat May 5, 2012, 12:06 AM

109. Pretty simplistic answer to a very complex problem.

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Response to Iris (Reply #109)

Sat May 5, 2012, 12:11 AM

111. It's really not that complicated.

If you're not able to be a minimally decent parent on your very worst day, don't have kids.

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Response to LeftyMom (Reply #111)

Sat May 5, 2012, 12:13 AM

112. You know, clearly it is b/c no one can predict what every day of the next 18-20 years will be like

Except, obviously for you, clearly the best mother in the world.

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Response to LeftyMom (Reply #111)

Sat May 5, 2012, 11:14 AM

138. +1

 

I'm amazed at how vigorously some people are defending broiling kids to death.

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Response to LeftyMom (Reply #43)

Sat May 5, 2012, 10:06 AM

126. Absolutely!

I have chosen not to be a parent for the fact that for all of my life I have experienced chronic and extreme fatigue. It isn't that I don't love children, I simply don't trust myself.

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Response to LeftyMom (Reply #43)

Sat May 5, 2012, 02:22 PM

154. How do you know if you can cope with the stresses before you have a child?

"If you can't keep track of where your kid is while you're tired, busy, upset, whatever, you really shouldn't have one."

How do you know this until you have one?

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 08:34 PM

61. Summer season. I was actually hoping this year we'd get by without any of these terrible stories

Just awful. While I never left my kids in the car seat, I remember one terrible episode where I almost ran my kids over.

I had a new Honda CRV. I dropped my 14 year old and 5 year old daughters off for swim lessons. I knew they usually took a few minutes to get to the pool and get going so I trusted them to start the process without me while I went to the bank for a deposit. "Be back in a minute" I said.

I backed up and almost ran them over. My 5 year old stopped to tie her shoes right behind the car and my 14 yr old stooped over to help her. Completely out of my sight line and I had no idea they were back there. Thought they were already in the facility.

My 5 year old is now 15 years old and I still get heart palpitations from that episode. I simply cannot judge these parents. The guilt they will endure forever... My own close call still makes me shake.

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #61)

Fri May 4, 2012, 09:17 PM

70. A good friend of ours ran over his friend's kid

He was backing out of their driveway and didn't see the little boy run behind his truck. He died. It was 35 years ago and he says there is never a day that he doesn't remember.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #70)

Fri May 4, 2012, 09:36 PM

74. I know. Gawd, I know. If my 14 yr old hadn't shouted loud enough, that would've been me.

I still get cold sweats thinking about it. I'm just grateful I didn't have the radio too loud, or I wasn't distracted. I knocked my older girl to the ground with the car that day, even as she shouted. Thank gawd I heard her or I just would have kept going, ASSuming they were already in the building. She was bruised up but not badly injured.

I could never judge those parents in the OP. I've been that kind of distracted, hassled, harried parent. I'd like to think that would NEVER be me to leave them in the car but dammit, who really knows.

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #61)

Fri May 4, 2012, 10:43 PM

86. I've noticed PSA's about this phenomenon this year.

Similar to ones that ran when I was a kid to alert people to the potential for what you described -backing over a child.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 08:37 PM

62. Some people are too fucking stupid to be parents.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #62)

Fri May 4, 2012, 09:03 PM

68. You think that is all there is to it?

The wealthy do, it turns out. And the poor, and the middle class. Parents of all ages and ethnicities do it. Mothers are just as likely to do it as fathers. It happens to the chronically absent-minded and to the fanatically organized, to the college-educated and to the marginally literate. In the last 10 years, it has happened to a dentist. A postal clerk. A social worker. A police officer. An accountant. A soldier. A paralegal. An electrician. A Protestant clergyman. A rabbinical student. A nurse. A construction worker. An assistant principal. It happened to a mental health counselor, a college professor and a pizza chef. It happened to a pediatrician. It happened to a rocket scientist.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/27/AR2009022701549_2.html?sid=ST2009030602446

This was almost me and I consider myself to be a very good parent with a decent intelligence. Over 20 years ago I forgot my daughter in her carseat. In my mind, she was already at daycare. When I got out of the car, I happened to glance at the back and there she was as quiet as could be. It's a tragic accident and it happens.

Read the entire article and it will explain how this kind of thing can happen to even the best of parents.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 08:44 PM

64. Read this Pulitzer prize winning article if you want to understand how it could happen.

Fatal Distraction: Forgetting a Child in the Backseat of a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/27/AR2009022701549.html

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Response to undeterred (Reply #64)

Fri May 4, 2012, 09:44 PM

78. Thank you for posting this

Last edited Fri May 4, 2012, 10:23 PM - Edit history (1)

Hope some people in this thread will read it. This has never happened to me and I pray to God with everything in me that it never does.

From your article:


"The wealthy do, it turns out. And the poor, and the middle class. Parents of all ages and ethnicities do it. Mothers are just as likely to do it as fathers. It happens to the chronically absent-minded and to the fanatically organized, to the college-educated and to the marginally literate. In the last 10 years, it has happened to a dentist. A postal clerk. A social worker. A police officer. An accountant. A soldier. A paralegal. An electrician. A Protestant clergyman. A rabbinical student. A nurse. A construction worker. An assistant principal. It happened to a mental health counselor, a college professor and a pizza chef. It happened to a pediatrician. It happened to a rocket scientist."

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Response to Number23 (Reply #78)

Sat May 5, 2012, 08:55 AM

118. Reading it really does give you an explanation.

It happened to a family in our city several years ago. The mom came out after work and found the baby passed away in her car in the parking lot. Nobody would do such a thing intentionally, but you wonder how someone could miss such an important step in their routine. This article showed how it could happen.

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Response to undeterred (Reply #64)

Fri May 4, 2012, 10:07 PM

80. Thankyou for this article.

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Response to undeterred (Reply #64)

Fri May 4, 2012, 10:37 PM

82. Similar to the time before sensors when people backed over their children in driveways

There was a public information campaign about that, and this year, since the weather started to warm up, I've been hearing them about the leaving kids in the backseat phenomena. I'm sure it's normal for the first reaction to be horror and blame but further examination of this kind of thing is essential in a civilized society.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 11:14 PM

95. It was really quite hot here yesterday, and I thought,

I wonder when the first report of a baby or child being left in a car will surface?

It's a horror - I also can't imagine how it happens, but it does. I do wish daycare centers would be more proactive in calling parents when they don't call the child out sick and the child doesn't show up. i know it would put an extra burden on the center, but it would save lives.

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Response to phylny (Reply #95)

Fri May 4, 2012, 11:17 PM

98. That's actually an excellent solution.

And fits into the idea of parents being supported by the culture.

I've heard PSA's about this for the first time this year.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 11:18 PM

99. There had ben talk of weight sensor alarms in car seats to prevent this.

I wonder how many people have to endure this type of loss before something is done. Clearly there is some glitch possible in the human mind to cause so many otherwise responsible parents to make such a grievous error.

My heart is with the baby's parents. They have a long road ahead of them.

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Response to FedUpWithIt All (Reply #99)

Sat May 5, 2012, 12:05 AM

108. Excellent post.

Well said.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 11:32 PM

105. Public awareness and education are the keys to preventing this kind of tragedy

This organization is working to tackle the problem: http://www.kidsandcars.org/

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Original post)

Sat May 5, 2012, 05:08 AM

114. There is no justifying this shit

Comparing this to forgetting a wallet or cell phone is bullshit.
How can someone be so wrapped up in their petty little existence that they can't remember little punkinhead is strapped in the backseat?
If someone is so narcissistic they feel the need to bring a little mini-me into this shithole we live in, then they need to own the responsibilities involved in doing such.
Maybe they don't deserve a prison sentence, but they are due the pain.

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Response to SixString (Reply #114)

Sat May 5, 2012, 05:26 AM

115. BINGO!!

How would these apologists think if I forgot to apply my brake pedal on my freightliner with an 80,000 pound load at a school crossing?

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Response to B Calm (Reply #115)

Sat May 5, 2012, 09:59 AM

123. Yup, exactly the same thing

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Response to SixString (Reply #114)

Sat May 5, 2012, 06:38 AM

116. Here's someone it *almost* happened to, his child was saved by a quirk of fate..

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/another-child-dies-in-a-hot-car-and-gene-weingarten-asks-why-was-this-a-crime/2012/03/14/gIQAXm01ES_story.html

It was stifling hot on the summer morning 29 years ago when I almost murdered my daughter.

“Murder” is an unforgiving term for what nearly happened that day, but to prosecutors in Prince William County, it is appropriate. That was the charge they brought last year against Bristow veterinarianKaren Murphy, whose 2-year-old, Ryan, did not do what my 2-year-old, Molly, did on the day I almost killed her: wake up at the last minute and say something.

So I didn’t park and lock my car and head into my office that morning, as Murphy did last June 17. Instead, after steadying my nerves against the knowledge of what I’d almost done, I drove my daughter to day care, as I’d meant to do before I somehow — inexplicably, inexcusably — forgot that she was sitting in the back seat.


Is _this_ man different from you in some basic way? He didn't kill his child but it was only an accident of fate that he didn't.

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Response to SixString (Reply #114)

Sat May 5, 2012, 09:57 AM

122. You either don't want to understand this or can't

I have no idea which it is.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #122)

Sat May 5, 2012, 10:05 AM

125. I understand it perfectly.

Some idiot that shouldn't have had kids in the first place left their kid to broil in a hot car.
Being too busy or forgetful is no excuse.

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Response to SixString (Reply #125)

Sat May 5, 2012, 02:25 PM

155. You are confusing "excuse" and "justifying" with "explaining"

Finding explanations of why such a tragedy occurs is in no way "excusing" or "justifying" it.

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #155)

Sat May 5, 2012, 02:55 PM

160. Well,

Leaving the fruit of one's loins in the back seat of a hot car is inexcusable.
And it can't be explained away by saying, "I've been busy.", "I'm stressed out." or
"I didn't sleep last night." .

It's a living being for Christ's sake.

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Response to SixString (Reply #114)

Sat May 5, 2012, 11:52 AM

143. Read this to understand how it happens.

The brain is not perfect. People who do this are not narcissists. They do not deserve the pain.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/27/AR2009022701549.html

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Response to SixString (Reply #114)

Sun May 6, 2012, 08:42 AM

171. It appears you decided to ignore the article.


Do you have children?

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Original post)

Sat May 5, 2012, 06:53 AM

117. For the people judging this woman

and other parents who have done this as well, I'm sure that they are judging themselves much more harshly than you are.

My heart goes out to them for their loss. For the pain they will endure. And for the self hatred they will live with. I would hate myself if I did the same. But I feel empathy for them. And I feel horror and sorrow for the tragic loss of the children.

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Response to Dorian Gray (Reply #117)

Sun May 6, 2012, 04:13 AM

166. Yep.

An excellent post, couldn't put it any better.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Original post)

Sat May 5, 2012, 09:17 AM

119. How hard would it be to program the car...

to set off the alarm if the seatbelts are still latched for a period of time after the engine is shutoff?

Those damn alarms would get alot of attention in a hurry.

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Response to B2G (Reply #119)

Sat May 5, 2012, 10:00 AM

124. That's an excellent idea

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Response to B2G (Reply #119)

Sat May 5, 2012, 10:58 AM

130. The seatbelt is latched to the car seat.

You don't remove the seat belt when you take the baby out of the car seat.

An alarm is a good idea though. What else could it be hooked to?

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #130)

Sat May 5, 2012, 11:45 AM

142. Hmm...true. Perhaps a weight sensor in the carseats

That connects to the car's electrical system...via a thin wire connecting to the cigarette lighter? Then the alarm system could trigger based on weight in the seat and the ignition being turned off?

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Response to B2G (Reply #142)

Sat May 5, 2012, 11:55 AM

145. Sounds good to me.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #130)

Sat May 5, 2012, 11:52 AM

144. The more I think about it...

The easiest thing would be to have noise/motion sensors inside the car that trigger after a certain time when the car is off.

All kinds of things trigger the alarm system externally...how hard could it be to program interior triggers?

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Response to B2G (Reply #144)

Sat May 5, 2012, 11:59 AM

146. I just put the diaper bag in the front seat

That always reminded me the baby was in back.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Original post)

Sat May 5, 2012, 10:21 AM

127. To the people in this thread who are pointing the finger:

If you have children, I think you might be wise to spend a little more time thinking on this tragedy.

I think it is safe to assume that this type of tragic accident is MORE likely to happen if a parent is absolutely certain it will not.

A little doubt, a little fear, a little uncertainty about whether this could happen to you might be the difference between life and death.

I, for one, am very glad I saw this thread. It has made me think about whether something like this could happen to me.

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Response to Skinner (Reply #127)

Sat May 5, 2012, 11:01 AM

132. This article really opened my eyes. Several have linked it in this thread:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/27/AR2009022701549.html

Thank you Skinner. Those of us whose kids are grown often think they were lucky to survive childhood. You just never know.

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Response to Skinner (Reply #127)

Sat May 5, 2012, 01:04 PM

147. Maybe this thread can help remind people to take that extra second to glance at the back seat...

It can happen to anyone and that's exactly what people need to realize.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Original post)

Sat May 5, 2012, 10:30 AM

128. retro-active darwinism...

 

Even once the genetics are passed on to future gererations, they are not safe from the guiding hand of natural selection. Clearly, this is a case of Darwin trying to weed out spontaneous forgetfullness from the human genepool.

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Response to OneTenthofOnePercent (Reply #128)

Sat May 5, 2012, 01:34 PM

153. That is really a distasteful post

A baby died and a family is devastated. This isn't "retro-active darwinism."

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Response to OneTenthofOnePercent (Reply #128)

Sun May 6, 2012, 07:06 AM

169. Don't blame Charles Darwin for your personal, distasteful viewpoints. nt

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Response to OneTenthofOnePercent (Reply #128)

Sun May 6, 2012, 08:48 AM

172. I don't think that's terribly insightful.


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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Original post)

Sat May 5, 2012, 10:57 AM

129. We expect working parents to show up for work and focus exclusively

on the job. We expect working parents to be at work every day, on time regardless of whatever problems are going on at home - a sick child, a wonky transmission. We expect working parents to put 40 or more hours a week into one or more jobs, then do all the parenting required to raise a primate.

Most people in this country are sleep deprived:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sleep-t.html

the consequences of sleep deprivation include:

Performance
o Lack of concentration
o Attention deficits
o Reduced vigilance
o Longer reaction times
o Distractibility
o Lack of energy
o Fatigue
o Restlessness
o Lack of coordination
o Poor decisions
o Increased errors
o Forgetfulness
http://www.aasmnet.org/resources/factsheets/sleepdeprivation.pdf

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Original post)

Sat May 5, 2012, 11:01 AM

131. I left my kid in the car. And I DEFY any poster on this board who would DARE blame me.

I left my kid in the car....and I've written on this before, but I'll write about it again....

And anybody here who thinks I was blameworthy, well, I wish I was as holy as you.

I spent an entire night up with my daughter. Entire night....she was screaming, crying, with colic. She would quiet down for 10 mins, only to start up again.

10 hours. Straight. My husband was traveling for work, I had no relatives close by, and it was the middle of the night. I had a babysitter coming later in the morning, but I still had a night to get through.

If you've never experienced a baby with colic, then frankly, you don't know what toture and hell that is for both parent and child. You cannot imagine what it is like watching your child be in agony, and there is very little you can do for them.

Early in the morning, after an entire night of holding my child, comforting her, I tried driving her around in the car....there is a park near us, and I drove her in an unending loop for 20-30 minutes until she finally fell asleep. I drove the car home. I parked. I walked in the house and went to pee--since I hadn't been able to for about 8 hours....

And mid-pee, I realized that I had no idea where my kid was. I was so godamn tired I forgot that I had just spent the last half hour in a car, and that my baby was in the backseat.

I was still peeing when I went to go look for my kid...and I simply cannot describe the the terror, panic, and utter fucking fear I felt. And then at some point, within seconds, I knew she was in the car.

She was probably left alone in the car for less than 3 minutes...maybe as much as 5. It was winter, and she was dressed warmly. She was perfectly fine, still asleep, with a pee-covered, crying mother who hadn't slept in over 24 hours.

Anybody on this thread who thinks it could not happen to them has never been a truly sleep-deprived parent. Anyone who thinks this happens because these parents are automatically bad or neglectful parents is out of their mind.

It happens because people are tired, and out of their routine.




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Response to msanthrope (Reply #131)

Sat May 5, 2012, 01:10 PM

149. You left your kid in the car for 5 minutes

Sorry imo that is not even the same thing. That is like comparing apples to oranges.

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Response to Rex (Reply #149)

Sat May 5, 2012, 02:27 PM

156. Forgetting your child does not = forgetting your child?

1 case it was long enough for the child to die. The other wasn't, true. But forgetting your child does = forgetting your child.

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #156)

Sat May 5, 2012, 05:08 PM

161. Oh I agree it is the same, but the results are different.

IE remember said child right away. Apples to oranges.

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Response to Rex (Reply #149)

Sun May 6, 2012, 06:35 AM

168. But do you understand how easily I could have been walking into work, or into something else

that would not have allowed my brain to snap back to my baby???

If I had been distracted by something else, I don't think I would have noticed until my breasts filled (I was nursing) and that might have been too late.

Sleep deprivation is a horrible thing. There's nothing like it.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #168)

Sun May 6, 2012, 05:52 PM

183. Yes yes I do understand.

It was a close call, very serious and could have gone downhill. I am just glad that it did not and I stress the difference is that you DID remember. Not 8 hours later...immediatly (imo with sleep deprivation just moving around can be slugish and confusing).

This is something personal that has had a direct impact on my life as well. A good close friend at the time, I will never forget im my life that day.

I really just want to say that I am glad you and your child are safe and alive.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #131)

Sat May 5, 2012, 05:53 PM

162. How long ago did this happen?

And I bet you still go into a cold sweat every time you think about it, don't you?

I don't understand the hateful fingerpointing in this thread. I wouldn't be surprised if much of it came from people who either don't have children or, as one poster wisely said up thread, are just simply "clearly the best (parents) in the world." I guess the rest of us should be blessed to be in their presence.

I've had nothing even remotely like this happen to me but the mere thought of it makes the hair on the back of my neck stand on end. I've had near misses with my girls that were no where as harrowing as the one you described and they still make my stomach clench to think about them years after the fact. I know it's probably futile for me to even say this, but please don't beat yourself up about what happened. You were doing the best that you can under what sound like immensely stressful circumstances.

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Response to Number23 (Reply #162)

Sun May 6, 2012, 06:31 AM

167. 9 years ago. I still get a tremor thinking about it. The people who don't 'get' this

are, indeed, either the best fucking parents in the world, or, are childfree....

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #131)

Sun May 6, 2012, 08:50 AM

173. Absolutely. Minds can be made to fail by stress.


And there's not much in the world more stressful than a small child...

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Original post)

Sat May 5, 2012, 11:09 AM

136. Someone needs to invent a motion detector/alarm inside automobiles, after being turned off.

And they need to do it yesterday.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Original post)

Sat May 5, 2012, 11:21 AM

140. Sometimes good people make mistakes that have tragic consequences

this looks like one of those.

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Response to varelse (Reply #140)

Sat May 5, 2012, 01:12 PM

150. Yes, the mother is experiencing things I shudder to

even think about. Tragic.

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Response to varelse (Reply #140)

Sun May 6, 2012, 11:25 AM

178. This. n/t

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Original post)

Sat May 5, 2012, 01:08 PM

148. How do you forget another lifeform a few feet away from you?

That will always boggle my mind. I wish no ill will onto the mother, if there is a hell I am sure she is living it right now.

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Response to Rex (Reply #148)

Sat May 5, 2012, 01:18 PM

151. It happens 25 times every year in this country

So sad.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Original post)

Sat May 5, 2012, 02:34 PM

159. Easy to see how this could happen.

I hope she can find a way to forgive herself. It could happen to anyone.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Original post)

Sat May 5, 2012, 06:00 PM

163. I have forgotten many things in my car.

Just today I forgot to unload fish that I had bought at the store and had to go out to retrieve it. But I have never forgotten an animal or a human being in the car.

How the hell can some people forget that their child is in the car with them???????



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Response to Beacool (Reply #163)

Sun May 6, 2012, 04:06 AM

164. Often it seems they skip going to child care and leave the kid in the back when they park at work..

Just a random brain fart, navigating and driving occupies part of the mind, the rest of the mind is working on something else and you just go on autopilot, I don't know about you but I've driven to the wrong place before when I left for somewhere else, I just never had my kid in the back when I did it.

Even Skinner came on the thread and pointed out that those who are sure they could never ever leave a child in the car may be the most likely to do so. The person who sees how they might do something like that would tend to take that final look in the back, just to make sure, to satisfy that slight nervousness.



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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #164)

Sun May 6, 2012, 01:23 PM

180. I'm not standing in judgment.

I just wonder how you can forget that you have your kid in the back seat. I usually look around the car when I park. The stuff that I tend to forget is stuff I put in the trunk (like the groceries, for example).

Anyway, this woman is paying the highest price a parent can pay. She lost her child and the guilt will endure the rest of her life. A tragedy all around.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2012, 11:12 AM

177. This is a horrible, just horrible tragedy...

my heart goes out to that family.

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