HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » BREAKING: Vermont become...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Fri May 4, 2012, 06:00 PM

BREAKING: Vermont becomes the first state to BAN FRACKING!

76 replies, 8411 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 76 replies Author Time Post
Reply BREAKING: Vermont becomes the first state to BAN FRACKING! (Original post)
garybeck May 2012 OP
Pisces May 2012 #1
SammyWinstonJack May 2012 #2
valerief May 2012 #68
DisgustipatedinCA May 2012 #3
steve2470 May 2012 #4
FiveGoodMen May 2012 #5
hootinholler May 2012 #6
L. Coyote May 2012 #66
Wind Dancer May 2012 #7
MoreGOPoop May 2012 #8
Justice wanted May 2012 #9
Uncle Joe May 2012 #10
malaise May 2012 #12
Uncle Joe May 2012 #18
malaise May 2012 #21
Uncle Joe May 2012 #22
malaise May 2012 #23
cali May 2012 #11
crayfish May 2012 #13
cali May 2012 #15
Taverner May 2012 #16
crayfish May 2012 #20
RC May 2012 #25
crayfish May 2012 #35
happerbolic May 2012 #64
MADem May 2012 #70
crayfish May 2012 #71
MADem May 2012 #72
crayfish May 2012 #73
MADem May 2012 #74
crayfish Jun 2012 #75
MADem Jun 2012 #76
canuckledragger May 2012 #30
crayfish May 2012 #34
canuckledragger May 2012 #41
groundloop May 2012 #52
donquijoterocket May 2012 #59
Fuddnik May 2012 #55
joshcryer May 2012 #38
azurnoir May 2012 #32
crayfish May 2012 #36
Oldtimeralso May 2012 #46
garybeck May 2012 #48
garybeck May 2012 #39
cali May 2012 #54
Taverner May 2012 #14
Zorra May 2012 #17
Bjorn Against May 2012 #19
eggplant May 2012 #44
slackmaster May 2012 #45
Smilo May 2012 #24
glinda May 2012 #26
burrowowl May 2012 #27
kestrel91316 May 2012 #28
groundloop May 2012 #43
happerbolic May 2012 #65
a2liberal May 2012 #29
cali May 2012 #31
Auntie Bush May 2012 #69
derby378 May 2012 #33
handmade34 May 2012 #37
freshwest May 2012 #40
MrMickeysMom May 2012 #42
countryjake May 2012 #47
Harriety May 2012 #49
malthaussen May 2012 #50
sellitman May 2012 #51
davidpdx May 2012 #53
raouldukelives May 2012 #56
Garion_55 May 2012 #57
spanone May 2012 #58
SalviaBlue May 2012 #60
99Forever May 2012 #61
NNN0LHI May 2012 #62
Baitball Blogger May 2012 #63
valerief May 2012 #67

Response to garybeck (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 06:12 PM

1. That is great news. Maybe more states will follow suit. Soon we will ruin all of our drinking water.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to garybeck (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 06:19 PM

2. Going strong in TX. Stupid, stupid, stupid!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to SammyWinstonJack (Reply #2)

Sat May 5, 2012, 01:23 PM

68. But rich people are getting richer and that's the most important thing in the world, after all. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to garybeck (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 06:22 PM

3. Great news! n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to garybeck (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 06:24 PM

4. great news ! nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to garybeck (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 06:30 PM

5. Way to go, Vermont!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to garybeck (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 06:31 PM

6. VPR is a little better than wikipedia

On controversial subjects. This is great news:

The final bill also includes language added by the Senate that bans drilling companies from disposing waste in Vermont from fracking operations out of state.

Governor Peter Shumlin has said he supports the measure, and has indicated he will sign it.



WOOT!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hootinholler (Reply #6)

Sat May 5, 2012, 12:29 PM

66. Vermont first state in nation to ban fracking for oil and gas

Vermont first state in nation to ban fracking for oil and gas
by Carl Etnier | May 4, 2012
http://vtdigger.org/2012/05/04/vermont-first-state-in-nation-to-ban-fracking-for-oil-and-gas/


With a 103-36 vote in the House of Representatives, Vermont on Friday became the first state to ban hydraulic fracturing to extract oil or natural gas. The bill passed the Senate earlier this week.

The House debate was short. Heidi Scheuermann, R-Stowe, raised concerns that Vermont was banning the practice without knowing what natural gas resources it was giving up. “We have no idea if some farmers in Franklin County might be able to take advantage of an economic opportunity on their property,” she said in floor debate. Scheuermann urged the House to vote for a moratorium, which would sunset after a number of years.

David Deen, D-Westminster, argued that there was a small “semantic difference” between a ban and a moratorium, since no legislature can bind a future legislature. “If we put a ban in place at this time, by this time next year, that ban could either be a moratorium or lifted.”

Rep. Anne Donahue, R-Northfield, raised different questions. If Vermont is the first state to pass a fracking ban, she wanted to know about the possibility of the state being sued ..........

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to garybeck (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 06:36 PM

7. Wonderful news!

Sure wish I could relocate to Vt. permanently.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to garybeck (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 06:39 PM

8. Right on!

K & R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to garybeck (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 06:46 PM

9. Great job VT. However notice how it is breaking news here and on Wikipedia. No banner headlines

anywhere else.


Kind of a sad fact.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to garybeck (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 06:48 PM

10. Kudos to the great state of Vermont.



Thanks for the thread, garybeck.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Uncle Joe (Reply #10)

Fri May 4, 2012, 06:52 PM

12. Yes they'll keep their state beautiful

and safe

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to malaise (Reply #12)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:15 PM

18. malaise!

Put some Bob Marley on for me, peace to you and have a good weekend.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Uncle Joe (Reply #18)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:19 PM

21. Will do

Enjoy your weekend - we have a good track and field meet tomorrow night.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to malaise (Reply #21)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:22 PM

22. Is that

school, university or something related to your Olympic team?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Uncle Joe (Reply #22)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:26 PM

23. No international

Bolt, your Carmelita Jeter and a host of stars from everywhere.

The coverage will be streamed live on:

http://www.facebook.com/SportsMax;

http://www.facebook.com/CEENTV

http://www.livestream.com/tracksonsportsmax.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to garybeck (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 06:51 PM

11. well that's nice, but the right of child care workers to unionize? Blocked by the dem Senate prez

the GMO labeling legislation? Nope.

There's not enough natural gas in Vermont for anyone to bother with fracking anyway.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to garybeck (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 06:54 PM

13. Vermont has no gas or oil, they can take the "high road" without any consequences.

 

That won't ever happen in a state that actually produces energy people demand.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to crayfish (Reply #13)

Fri May 4, 2012, 06:55 PM

15. exactly. And I'm a vermonster.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to crayfish (Reply #13)

Fri May 4, 2012, 06:55 PM

16. I think California, Colorado, Oregon and Washington have to ban it

 

This is ripe soil.

If that happens, it will trigger a movement.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Taverner (Reply #16)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:19 PM

20. California, maybe because they do crazy stuff there all the time (e.g. Prop 8)

 

There's very little hydrocarbon production in the other 3 you mention. I believe I know what would happen if they tried that in Illinois, Ohio, Texas, Lousiana and probably Wyoming and N. Dakota...anybody who wanted to crimp energy production would be run out of state on a burning rail. People are notorious for promoting stuff like banning fracking until they discover it will cost them a lot of money. Then there is the fact that nobody has yet proven it to have caused any serious harm.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to crayfish (Reply #20)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:47 PM

25. No serous harm? Really?

 

Between the contaminated water tables, burning water taps, earthquakes and few dead cattle, yeah, no harm.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RC (Reply #25)

Fri May 4, 2012, 09:12 PM

35. Give me some actual evidence for these and I'll be happy to look it. A few dead cattle is pretty

 

much what I have in my freezer...and if fracking ever actually did cause some small earthquakes (a claim lacking factual evidence) that would actually be a -good- thing because it would relieve fault stresses that could otherwise lead to catastrophic diastrophisms. They have been doing hydraulic and sand fracking in southern Illinois for over 55 years and there has been zero seismic activity there. You can check it out.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to crayfish (Reply #35)

Sat May 5, 2012, 12:07 PM

64. Over a real short moment in time...

 

...that industry capitalizes pay-dirt on what the earth has been trapping for thousands of years, leaving all the rest of us the delightful plight of suffering the consequences of a multi-thousand years worth of trapped toxins and heavy (non-industry viable) elements to endure all at once, all because of achieving the brief corporate hard-on.

are you for real crayfish?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to crayfish (Reply #35)

Sat May 5, 2012, 04:25 PM

70. You haven't seen GASLAND ... yet? Welcome to DU....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MADem (Reply #70)

Thu May 10, 2012, 08:33 PM

71. Thank you, yes I have seen it, and it belongs down there alongside "Loose Change" and other

 

idiotic conspiracy-theories that fail miserably in the face of science. (I've read the "Left Behind" books too...with some hilarity and a lot of sorrow that people believe that shit)
\

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to crayfish (Reply #71)

Thu May 10, 2012, 08:45 PM

72. Yeah, sure--there's nothing "idiot conspiracy theory" about lighting your drinking water on fire.

I think you didn't see the film, or if you did, you weren't paying attention.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MADem (Reply #72)

Sat May 26, 2012, 06:19 PM

73. Water is not flammable. CH4 that frequently leaches into well water definitely is.

 

Every one of those 'burning water' reports had been traced to natural gas seeping into the water table, and not every investigator is a tool of the energy industry.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to crayfish (Reply #73)

Sun May 27, 2012, 10:24 AM

74. Of course water is not flammable. The rest of your comment isn't completely accurate.

How did that natural gas seep into the water table? All by itself?

Before fracking: cool, clear water. After fracking: flammable water.

You have one of those nice days.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MADem (Reply #74)

Sun Jun 3, 2012, 08:28 PM

75. The gas is not in the "water table", it gets into water wells from different strata.

 

I assume you are not a geologist.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to crayfish (Reply #75)

Sun Jun 3, 2012, 08:48 PM

76. Who said it was? I assume you aren't, either. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to canuckledragger (Reply #30)

Fri May 4, 2012, 09:07 PM

34. All those links go to the very same Wiki article. And Wiki is hardly a reliable source for anything

 

anyway. And even at that, the "conclusions" they draw in that horribly researched piece (it's full of 3rd hand reports and urban myths that wouldn't pass muster in a municipal court) are carefully couched in terms like "uncertain", "undetermined" and "possible". I don't buy it, sorry.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to crayfish (Reply #34)

Fri May 4, 2012, 11:05 PM

41. suit yourself. here's another

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to crayfish (Reply #34)

Sat May 5, 2012, 07:56 AM

52. Gee, I wonder why natural gas drillers needed to be exempt from Safe Drinking Water Act..

If fracking doesn't harm aquifers then the drilling companies wouldn't have had anything to worry about as far as the Safe Drinking Water Act. But they had to get their pals at the time (Bush Cheney) to exempt them from that. Hmmmm.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to groundloop (Reply #52)

Sat May 5, 2012, 10:52 AM

59. but, you see

That's logic and the wingers have no knowledge of,or use for, actual logic.Ever tried that as a question for a full bore fracker? I bet the hemming and hawing was near deafening,not to mention time consuming.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to crayfish (Reply #20)

Sat May 5, 2012, 09:38 AM

55. Right. And nobody has actually "proven" that smoking cigarettes causes cancer.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Taverner (Reply #16)

Fri May 4, 2012, 10:13 PM

38. Colorado won't ban it, but they did make it have strict ground water standards.

Which is an effective ban for all of the venture capitalists. Would have to be a very well established company that can afford to meet the standards as far as I understand.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to crayfish (Reply #13)

Fri May 4, 2012, 09:00 PM

32. Thanks I didn't want to sayit but

it's kind of like my state MN banning whale hunting nice gesture but.....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to azurnoir (Reply #32)

Fri May 4, 2012, 09:17 PM

36. Heh, that reminds me, I lived in MN (Stearns Co) for about a year. Some of the locals invited me

 

to go ice fishing...and it was the most backbreaking experience of my life. It took us half a day to make the hole big enough to put the boat in!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to crayfish (Reply #36)

Sat May 5, 2012, 12:57 AM

46. Mn Ice

I did that the last time I went to MN in the winter (Sept-May) and I did good I caught a 125# block of ice!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to azurnoir (Reply #32)

Sat May 5, 2012, 02:10 AM

48. Nope. See post #39. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to crayfish (Reply #13)

Fri May 4, 2012, 10:27 PM

39. not exactly.

"a shale formation that’s been tapped for gas north of the border in Quebec extends south to beneath the northwestern corner of Vermont and Lake Champlain."

http://bostonglobe.com/metro/2012/05/04/verge-historic-fracking-ban/WrzON0vsFlmfKjS9j9DkJP/story.html

plus the law bans dumping of waste materials used in fracking in other states

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to garybeck (Reply #39)

Sat May 5, 2012, 09:28 AM

54. you forgot to post the rest of that

"It’s unclear if there is enough natural gas under Vermont to interest the industry in drilling for it. Geologists who attended a news conference with Shumlin last month said they didn’t believe that Vermont had the abundant natural gas that has been found in nearby New York state and Pennsylvania"

Let's face it our ledge failed on GMO labeling and failed horribly on the right of child care workers to unionize- both more important that the distant threat of fracking.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to garybeck (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 06:54 PM

14. Awesome.

 

Doesn't matter your position on Natural Gas, fracking is dangerous no matter which way you look at it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to garybeck (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 06:56 PM

17. Yay Vermont!

I'd move there if it wasn't so darn cold in winter.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to garybeck (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:18 PM

19. Vermont seems to be the leader in nearly everything good these days

Sometimes I wish I could live in Vermont where they actually have good government, we used to have good government here in Minnesota but that left several years ago. We now finally have a governor who actually cares about the state, but unfortunately the only thing he can do for us is keep us from becoming another Wisconsin by using his veto pen to strike down the extreme right wing ALEC bills the house and senate keep pushing on us.

Vermont makes me envious, it seems they lead on damn near everything.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #19)

Fri May 4, 2012, 11:50 PM

44. But what about their cheese?

Their artery clogging cheese?

(A reference to the movie Thank You For Smoking, for the humor impaired.)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #19)

Sat May 5, 2012, 12:34 AM

45. Not everyone agrees (but I do FWIW)

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to garybeck (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 07:27 PM

24. I love Vermont........

and I hope to visit one day

Good for Vermont standing up against those frackers.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to garybeck (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 08:19 PM

26. k&r

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to garybeck (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 08:21 PM

27. Go Vermont!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to garybeck (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 08:25 PM

28. I expect the feds to find a way to tell VT they can't ban it.

But then, maybe I'm still just in a snit about the medical MJ thing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #28)

Fri May 4, 2012, 11:10 PM

43. Not the "feds", it'll be the Supreme Court

My crystal ball sees this scenario - A gas producer takes the state to court. The case winds it's way to the Supreme Court, where the repub court hands the gas producers a victory.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to groundloop (Reply #43)

Sat May 5, 2012, 12:20 PM

65. the multi-gnats wouldn't even bother...

 

...with the court system here. They will just go through the WTO courts to sue individual states and/or the federal gov't.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to garybeck (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 08:34 PM

29. Vermont rocks!

Between this, single payer (how's that going btw?), Bernie, cheese, etc. I may have to move there some day. Any software industry there?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to a2liberal (Reply #29)

Fri May 4, 2012, 08:46 PM

31. you forgot maple syrup

the work on Green Mountain Care is ongoing with a lot of focus on containing costs. And yes, there's a software industry here.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cali (Reply #31)

Sat May 5, 2012, 02:19 PM

69. We've got lots of rocks to sell! Cheaper than the Brooklyn Bridge.

But don't forget all the marble.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to garybeck (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 09:04 PM

33. Suck it, Range Resources! Texas is gonna be next in line.

RIGHT, fellow Texans?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to garybeck (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 09:59 PM

37. yah!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to garybeck (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 10:43 PM

40. Congratulations VT!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to garybeck (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 11:09 PM

42. Salute!

Thanks, VT!



We're trying to preserve local control over zoning laws. This is gonna help...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to garybeck (Original post)

Sat May 5, 2012, 01:32 AM

47. K&R!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to garybeck (Original post)

Sat May 5, 2012, 05:33 AM

49. I heart Vermont!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to garybeck (Original post)

Sat May 5, 2012, 07:15 AM

50. Good news? Well, yeah, but...

"No legislature may bind a future legislature," Deen said. "And if we put a ban in place this time, by this time next year, that ban could either be a moratorium or lifted."

(Statement by Dem. Legislator)

-- Mal

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to garybeck (Original post)

Sat May 5, 2012, 07:39 AM

51. Very cool

I hope CT is next.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to garybeck (Original post)

Sat May 5, 2012, 09:18 AM

53. Great to hear

I hope some other states follow suit. Anyone who hasn't seen it needs to see Gasland.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to garybeck (Original post)

Sat May 5, 2012, 09:48 AM

56. K&R for Vermont! nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to garybeck (Original post)

Sat May 5, 2012, 10:07 AM

57. so you cant watch battlestar galactic

in the state of vermont?

course the series was only good for the first 1 1/2 seasons so no big loss.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to garybeck (Original post)

Sat May 5, 2012, 10:10 AM

58. intelligent life spotted in vermont.....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to garybeck (Original post)

Sat May 5, 2012, 10:55 AM

60. Good news!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to garybeck (Original post)

Sat May 5, 2012, 11:01 AM

61. K&R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to garybeck (Original post)

Sat May 5, 2012, 11:03 AM

62. Not going to have any more babies in Vermont?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to garybeck (Original post)

Sat May 5, 2012, 11:29 AM

63. Let's hope this is the beginning of a new trend.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to garybeck (Original post)

Sat May 5, 2012, 01:23 PM

67. Now I know where to move for retirement. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread