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Tue May 1, 2012, 09:49 PM

Gosh there seems to have been a national outburst from the blac block

San Francisco last night, Portland, NYC that I have seen today. Probably other cities I haven't.

I didn't know they were that organized.



I guess I'll have to give up on Occupy now. It's a shame really, they seemed like nice peaceful people.

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Reply Gosh there seems to have been a national outburst from the blac block (Original post)
hootinholler May 2012 OP
FarLeftFist May 2012 #1
hootinholler May 2012 #2
JDPriestly May 2012 #3
joshcryer May 2012 #7
hootinholler May 2012 #10
joshcryer May 2012 #11
hootinholler May 2012 #13
joshcryer May 2012 #17
Ken Burch May 2012 #27
lob1 May 2012 #4
slackmaster May 2012 #5
Ken Burch May 2012 #29
Luminous Animal May 2012 #34
Bennyboy May 2012 #8
Bennyboy May 2012 #39
backscatter712 May 2012 #37
bigtree May 2012 #6
joshcryer May 2012 #9
Ken Burch May 2012 #30
flvegan May 2012 #12
hootinholler May 2012 #15
Luminous Animal May 2012 #16
joshcryer May 2012 #18
Luminous Animal May 2012 #28
joshcryer May 2012 #31
backscatter712 May 2012 #14
hootinholler May 2012 #19
backscatter712 May 2012 #20
joshcryer May 2012 #26
Luminous Animal May 2012 #33
backscatter712 May 2012 #38
joshcryer May 2012 #23
Luminous Animal May 2012 #21
hootinholler May 2012 #24
hootinholler May 2012 #22
joshcryer May 2012 #25
TorchTheWitch May 2012 #35
redqueen May 2012 #40
Rex May 2012 #32
Monk06 May 2012 #36

Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue May 1, 2012, 09:51 PM

1. It' actually Black Bloc. Also,

You forgot the sarcasm thingy.

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Response to FarLeftFist (Reply #1)

Tue May 1, 2012, 10:24 PM

2. What ever do you mean?

I wasn't being sarcastic. I honestly didn't think there would be such coordination of the black bloc nationwide. Are you saying that was spontaneous?

I wonder if they had like an online chat, or maybe someone coughed up the dough for a conference call. The only thing I can't figure is how would they know who to call in the different cities?

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Response to hootinholler (Reply #2)

Tue May 1, 2012, 10:27 PM

3. Why would you give up on Occupy when it was the black bloc that

became violent.

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Response to hootinholler (Reply #2)

Tue May 1, 2012, 10:40 PM

7. It's this way every May 1st.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #7)

Tue May 1, 2012, 10:49 PM

10. That's Odd

I think I would have heard about it if it was an annual event to go smash some windows on May 1

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Response to hootinholler (Reply #10)

Tue May 1, 2012, 10:58 PM

11. I would think you would have heard about it if you cared, imo.

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2011/05/may_day_2011.html

It happens every year. Every single year.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery/2010/may/02/may-day-protest

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1177214/May-Day-protests-turn-ugly-violent-clashes-erupt-streets-Brighton.html

I am amazed with how people are only noticing this now. It's disappointing to say the least.

Occupy popularity may have brought out more hoodlums but frankly I have seen much worse. It's not a big deal.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #11)

Tue May 1, 2012, 11:22 PM

13. So if I cared more I would have known about it?

What an odd way to phrase it. It makes me wonder what else I haven't heard about because I don't have enough concern about it.

You know, someone who didn't go to the link and look might think there was a big uprising in Boston last May Day instead of seeing that it was international coverage of labor parades, and few of which looked violent at all.

I seriously don't recall a history of May Day uprisings by the black bloc in the US.

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Response to hootinholler (Reply #13)

Tue May 1, 2012, 11:30 PM

17. Breaking windows and property damange and being ineffectual and idiotic is not an "uprising."

I consider it partially motivated by mob behavior more than anything.

For what it's worth I don't really think the tactic is very useful (except as a herding tactic during a crackdown on genuinely peaceful protesters).

There are thousands of videos on youtube about the "organized" black bloc. It's mostly just random people who don black clothing and masks.

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Response to FarLeftFist (Reply #1)

Wed May 2, 2012, 12:09 AM

27. I predict that, when the FOIA requests are honored fifty years or so from now...

(assuming, of course, that we'll still have at least our current pseudo-democracy and aren't a loose neo-feudal corporate federation ruled with an iron fist by a Ron Silver-In-TIME COPE-like bazillionaire genius villain) It will turn out that the entire "Black Bloc" was just police academy cadets earning extra credit by providing their future colleagues with a pretext for teargassing, tasering, and rubber bullet testing in a public space.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue May 1, 2012, 10:28 PM

4. I'll bet they get their paycheck from Homeland Defense.

How can real protestors believe looking like ninja thugs would help things. They're not on our side.

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Response to lob1 (Reply #4)

Tue May 1, 2012, 10:29 PM

5. Homeland Defense reports to the President of the United States

 

In case you weren't aware of it.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #5)

Wed May 2, 2012, 12:11 AM

29. I think we all knew that.

Last edited Wed May 2, 2012, 12:53 AM - Edit history (1)

Can't they just change its name to "Der Vaterland Panzergrenadiergruppen" and be honest about it?

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #29)

Wed May 2, 2012, 12:52 AM

34. +1 (nt)

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Response to lob1 (Reply #4)

Tue May 1, 2012, 10:40 PM

8. DING DING DING...

 

There is no black bloc, never has been. That is the medias self penned pet names for Agent Provocateurs who always wear black. They are organized, buy the PTB to discredit Occupy and make them look like Hooligans.

I ahve seen em in action, guys that one minute look like cops and the next are wearing masks and hoodies.

Let's not forget that the word BLACK Scares a lot of Americans so they see black bloc (The soviet touch is nice but not nearly as scary today as it use to be) is the scariest two word combination know to man. Black Bloc!

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Response to Bennyboy (Reply #8)

Wed May 2, 2012, 01:59 PM

39. OAKLAND Police spies chosen to lead war protest Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article

 

Two Oakland police officers working undercover at an anti-war protest in May 2003 got themselves elected to leadership positions in an effort to influence the demonstration, documents released Thursday show.

The department assigned the officers to join activists protesting the U.S. war in Iraq and the tactics that police had used at a demonstration a month earlier, a police official said last year in a sworn deposition.

At the first demonstration, police fired nonlethal bullets and bean bags at demonstrators who blocked the Port of Oakland's entrance in a protest against two shipping companies they said were helping the war effort. Dozens of activists and longshoremen on their way to work suffered injuries ranging from welts to broken bones and have won nearly $2 million in legal settlements from the city.

The extent of the officers' involvement in the subsequent march May 12, 2003, led by Direct Action to Stop the War and others, is unclear. But in a deposition related to a lawsuit filed by protesters, Deputy Police Chief Howard Jordan said activists had elected the undercover officers to "plan the route of the march and decide I guess where it would end up and some of the places that it would go."

It was revealed later that the California Anti-Terrorism Information Center, which was established by the state attorney general's office to help local police agencies fight terrorism, had posted an alert about the April protest. Oakland police had also monitored online postings by the longshoremen's union regarding its opposition to the war.



Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/07/28/SURVEILLANCE.TMP#ixzz1tjiujSEa

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Response to lob1 (Reply #4)

Wed May 2, 2012, 02:58 AM

37. Maybe, or they could also be Pinkertons hired by the banksters.

Also known as Blackwater, Xe..., wait, those scumfucks renamed themselves again... Academi.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue May 1, 2012, 10:37 PM

6. I'd bet my house that they're not OWS supporters

. . . and are actually some corporate, or right-wing hired goons.

Where's the arrests? Where's the pics of these idiots being pepper-sprayed and dragged through the streets by the SWAT Thugs? Funny that there hasn't been a coordinated bearing down on them; just on the peaceful protestors.

Then come the apathetic, cynical calls to abandon the movement. Is COINTELPRO the only tactic they know -- or is it just the most effective they know?

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Response to bigtree (Reply #6)

Tue May 1, 2012, 10:41 PM

9. Some might be, some might be lone idiots, others might be truly philosophically backing...

...egalitarianism. That's the best and worst part of the bloc.

It can be idiots, plants, psyops or actual actors, you can never know because they're anonymous.

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Response to bigtree (Reply #6)

Wed May 2, 2012, 12:12 AM

30. Could also be frat boys, come to think of it.

The "Greeks" always have stormtrooper potential.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue May 1, 2012, 10:59 PM

12. Wait...at what point did black bloc seem like "nice peaceful people"???

And why would you give up on Occupy now because of such a faction?

Every movement has idiots.

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Response to flvegan (Reply #12)

Tue May 1, 2012, 11:25 PM

15. No Occupy seemed like nice peaceful people

But gosh golly dang it, I'm not so sure now

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Response to flvegan (Reply #12)

Tue May 1, 2012, 11:28 PM

16. Black Bloc is not a faction of Occupy. They are their own separate

entity and existed decades before Occupy was conceived.

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #16)

Tue May 1, 2012, 11:32 PM

18. Some Occupiers are bloc'ers not all bloc'ers are occupiers.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #18)

Wed May 2, 2012, 12:11 AM

28. And some Occupiers are Democratic Party members not all Democrats are Occupiers.

Certainly the Democratic Party is not a faction of Occupy.

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #28)

Wed May 2, 2012, 12:16 AM

31. That goes without saying.

A lot of Democrats are antagonistic toward Occupiers and Bloc'ers.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue May 1, 2012, 11:25 PM

14. Falling for the propaganda?

At best, you're talking about a small fraction of people that show up at these events that act like douchebags.

And chances are good that they're corporate-hired or police provocateurs.

My, how gullible some people are!

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #14)

Tue May 1, 2012, 11:32 PM

19. I wonder why the police can't crack down on them?

Surely they must have been really scarey for the SFPD to not act last night.

It just doesn't seem right. I guess they should have called Oakland for support. Those cops know how to assert control!

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Response to hootinholler (Reply #19)

Tue May 1, 2012, 11:34 PM

20. The cops are more than capable of cracking down on the instigators...

But they seem far more focused on beating the shit out of peaceful protesters, while letting the douchebags break shit.

Hmmm.....

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #20)

Tue May 1, 2012, 11:49 PM

26. The only way to get them is to do unconstitutional kettling.

The OP is advocating unconstitutional tactics used by the Oakland police.

Otherwise if people are allowed free movement they can move in and out of the clothing and never be caught.

Some of the OWS marchers even used this tactic, using band cases to hold their black clothing.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #26)

Wed May 2, 2012, 12:51 AM

33. The cops were definitely in the position to make arrests of many of the vandals.

Last reported, they may have arrested only 1.

The Mission is one of the most heavily policed area of town. The cops just stood there in front of their police station and did nothing while witnessing the paint bombing of the station.

They maintained a contingent of about 40 cops that remained in formation... no advance, to call for additional back-up, no show of force. Occupiers themselves tried harder to keep the peace than the cops did (and were threatened with physical violence for their efforts).

I've witnessed 100 cops and more called out to surround a GA on a moments notice. At the 888 Turk St. occupation there were more cops AND the SWAT team called in within 15 minutes of the occupation (and keep in mind, the cops were taken by surprise) than the total who stood by and watched the thugs wreak havoc on Valencia.

There are a few things I know for sure (#8 is, as far as Occupy is concerned, the most important):

1) The Dolores Park gathering was presented as a pre-party for May Day events (Dolores Park is a daily gathering place to hang out for practically everything.)

2) Within 20 minutes of what was supposed to be a party, a march was called. (There was a lot of, "Oh what? Now we're marching?)

3) The vandalism started pretty quick with the vandals knocking over trash cans and recycling bins on the edge of the park.

4) The Occupiers witnessed this and started chanting, "Peaceful protest!" Occupiers who tried to intervene were physically threatened. Sometimes with baseball bats or metal rods.

5) Livestreamers were threatened, as well. As far as I can tell at this time, all complied.

6) The majority of the people dropped back. Some left, some followed to pick up trash.

7) The police stood back and watched. Some were laughing.

8) This has put in jeopardy months worth of coalition work that Occupy has been doing with long-time Mission advocacy groups, the gentrifying new businesses and the traditional and still mostly Hispanic population of the Mission.

Quite simply, it is a clusterfuck and not an Occupy clusterfuck but a clusterfuck created by a group that has been a bane of existence for San Francisco peaceful movements (ACT UP!, Homes Not Jails, Roots Against War....) for decades.

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #33)

Wed May 2, 2012, 12:16 PM

38. Bingo!

The cops are perfectly capable of putting a stop to vandalism in these cases - they were clearly capable of deploying hundreds of cops at a moments notice when Occupiers did such horrible things like jaywalking or sitting down.

But they did absolutely nothing when a group of thugs started smashing shit. They could have easily had a moderate response, which say, could have arrested the vandals while letting non-violent and law-abiding protesters continue to march. In some towns, they actually do that.

These were agents provocateurs, pure and simple. Probably undercover cops or Pinkertons. And the cops were deliberately allowing them to smash shit.

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Response to hootinholler (Reply #19)

Tue May 1, 2012, 11:42 PM

23. LOL, championing Oakland's brutal methods.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue May 1, 2012, 11:35 PM

21. Occupy are nice peaceful people committed to non-violent direct action.

In regards to last night's vandalism in San Francisco, I've already contacted my Supervisor, the Mayor, the DA, and the Office of Citizen Complaints and asked for an investigation as to why the cops did NOTHING to intervene and stem the vandalism.

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #21)

Tue May 1, 2012, 11:44 PM

24. Excellent!

I'm sure you will keep us updated as to their replies.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue May 1, 2012, 11:41 PM

22. Tra La La, I'm off to bed...

Yes I was being sarcastic. Black Bloc is a tactic adopted by many, in my experience adopting the tactic is the easiest way to insert agents provocateur into a group, especially a leaderless movement like Occupy. It also hands the press a paint brush to be used in setting the tone for reporting.

That being said, I'm still wondering how I would know more about stuff if I cared more about it. How is one to know what to care about so they can receive what seems to be divine revelations.

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Response to hootinholler (Reply #22)

Tue May 1, 2012, 11:46 PM

25. You have to care to know because the media doesn't do its damn job.

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Response to hootinholler (Reply #22)

Wed May 2, 2012, 02:04 AM

35. They aren't agent provocateurs however some may like them to be

They're just obnoxious kids and always have been. They aren't anarchists either as they wouldn't know an anarchist if one bit them on their ass. They're nothing but obnoxious kids in their teens and very early 20's, both male and female, and middle to upper middle class who found out about black bloc tactics from the internet or one of their equally obnoxious friends who found out from the internet and decided to use it as nothing more than a means to make mayhem with the likelihood of not getting caught. That's IT. They do it for NO other reason than they think it's fun to overturn cars, smash windows, tip over trash cans, ram into innocent people or even beat some up, etc. They don't even KNOW what any particular protest or sizable crowd is about and don't give a shit. They show up at any sizable protest or any sizable crowd for any other reason for the SOLE purpose of creating havoc with the likelihood of not getting caught because they can so easily melt into a crowd and lose the black bandanna or ski mask and appear a second later as Joe or Jane Average. Not a damn one of them would have the guts to do the shitty things they do during protests or in any sizable crowd because that would mean likely getting caught, and mommy and daddy might take away their computer, not let them watch tv or use mommy and daddy's credit cards at the mall.




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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #35)

Wed May 2, 2012, 02:13 PM

40. Not sure about these most recent incidents,

but these goons have been filmed getting out of cop cars and changing into their costumes before. There have been more than a few documented incidents of a similar nature.

Some might be stupid people of whatever age. Many are very much not.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Wed May 2, 2012, 12:16 AM

32. Didn't you hear? It was a terrible FLOP!

I sat in the box seats and hurumphed until my vocal cords went dry.

HURUMPH!!

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Wed May 2, 2012, 02:53 AM

36. Of course they're well organized. They're cops for christ's sake. They were outed as police plants.

Last edited Wed May 2, 2012, 04:18 AM - Edit history (1)

a couple of years ago in Portland. The vid was all over YouTube. They're agents provoceteurs.

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