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Tue May 1, 2012, 07:50 PM

2024? Really. No wonder this place is almost 'speechless' right now. Not even a poll. Just

saying.

eom

38 replies, 3490 views

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Reply 2024? Really. No wonder this place is almost 'speechless' right now. Not even a poll. Just (Original post)
Purveyor May 2012 OP
The Velveteen Ocelot May 2012 #1
Purveyor May 2012 #2
DCBob May 2012 #3
neverforget May 2012 #9
DCBob May 2012 #12
Daniel537 May 2012 #21
DCBob May 2012 #23
morningfog May 2012 #34
SunsetDreams May 2012 #4
TheCowsCameHome May 2012 #5
avaistheone1 May 2012 #6
TheWraith May 2012 #11
hlthe2b May 2012 #13
kenny blankenship May 2012 #18
Zalatix May 2012 #26
avaistheone1 May 2012 #14
kenny blankenship May 2012 #20
avaistheone1 May 2012 #27
steve2470 May 2012 #8
avaistheone1 May 2012 #22
Purveyor May 2012 #10
avaistheone1 May 2012 #29
Daniel537 May 2012 #32
Rosco T. May 2012 #7
derby378 May 2012 #15
phleshdef May 2012 #16
Rosco T. May 2012 #17
redqueen May 2012 #19
Rosco T. May 2012 #33
ecstatic May 2012 #24
boxman15 May 2012 #28
former9thward May 2012 #35
MineralMan May 2012 #25
boxman15 May 2012 #30
panader0 May 2012 #31
PufPuf23 May 2012 #37
Purveyor May 2012 #38
Hell Hath No Fury May 2012 #36

Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Tue May 1, 2012, 07:52 PM

1. Just saying what?

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #1)

Tue May 1, 2012, 07:53 PM

2. Already said. eom

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Tue May 1, 2012, 07:53 PM

3. Do you realize we still have troops in Korea, Japan and Germany?

I dont like it but its the American way.

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Response to DCBob (Reply #3)

Tue May 1, 2012, 07:58 PM

9. But the Japanese, Germans and Koreans aren't shooting at us.

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Response to neverforget (Reply #9)

Tue May 1, 2012, 08:01 PM

12. Well, I suspect at some point the Afghans will stop shooting at us too.

This agreement should help facilitate that.

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Response to DCBob (Reply #12)

Tue May 1, 2012, 08:15 PM

21. You know what's the best way to get them to stop shooting at us?

By leaving the damn country.

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Response to Daniel537 (Reply #21)

Tue May 1, 2012, 08:22 PM

23. Cant argue with that.

but then you have to accept the consequences of leaving.

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Response to DCBob (Reply #12)

Tue May 1, 2012, 09:23 PM

34. I think you are probably wrong. They'll stop when we leave.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Tue May 1, 2012, 07:54 PM

4. I wasn't speechless but now I am...well sort of

I just have to ask a question...what is it with this 2024 stuff? I'm seeing a few threads with that and no explanation.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Tue May 1, 2012, 07:55 PM

5. Fill us in - What is going on in 2024?

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Response to TheCowsCameHome (Reply #5)

Tue May 1, 2012, 07:57 PM

6. We will be in Afghanistan at least until then.

Surprise, surprise. Not

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Response to avaistheone1 (Reply #6)

Tue May 1, 2012, 07:59 PM

11. No. Please try re-reading.

It says that the US will offer support to the Afghans. It says nothing to do with troops, and in fact explicitly says US troops are getting out of the war by 2014.

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Response to TheWraith (Reply #11)

Tue May 1, 2012, 08:02 PM

13. If our role is counter-insurgency, that means troops.

I'm just trying to sort through this as I am confused as well, particularly since most of NATO is, for all intents and purposes, withdrawing.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #13)

Tue May 1, 2012, 08:11 PM

18. Well...Special Forces, drones and contractors

But if anyone ever asks them, I'm sure they'll be instructed to deny that they are "troops".

The presence of any militaryish forces -not troops, of course, no one is alleging that!- acts as a trigger, always ready to draw us back in in greater and more obvious involvement.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #13)

Tue May 1, 2012, 08:25 PM

26. No, it doesn't mean troops.

 

It means drones, special advisors, arms shipments to psychopaths that are on our side, puppet governments, sabotaged elections, and the like.

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Response to TheWraith (Reply #11)

Tue May 1, 2012, 08:04 PM

14. Yeah, right.

I listened to tonight's speech, and all the speeches that came before. Yeah, right.

How many extensions have we had so far? I don't have enough fingers to count.

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Response to avaistheone1 (Reply #14)

Tue May 1, 2012, 08:13 PM

20. But this one is good for it - at least thru November!

Man there was nobody more in favor a Public Option for health insurance than Barack Obama. I mean he was FIERCE about it, right through Nov. 2008.

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Response to kenny blankenship (Reply #20)

Tue May 1, 2012, 08:25 PM

27. Oh yeah. So glad that one about the public option got caught on video.

Otherwise anyone suggesting that was Obama's position then would be probably be tossed from this board.

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Response to TheCowsCameHome (Reply #5)

Tue May 1, 2012, 07:58 PM

8. U.S. pledges financial, support role to Afghans through 2024

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2018048900_afghanistan23.html

*snip*

Afghan President Hamid Karzai's national-security adviser, Rangin Dadfar Spanta, initialed a final draft of the agreement with U.S. Ambassador Ryan Crocker, according to emailed statements from Karzai's office and the U.S. Embassy in Kabul.

The two countries have a month to review and sign the deal by the May 21 NATO summit conference in Chicago, a goal voiced last month by Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton. That gathering is expected to produce a plan for the final phase of the decadelong war in Afghanistan.

The document pledges American financial support for Afghanistan through 2024 and refers to the ongoing U.S. role in bolstering Afghan democracy and civil society.

The specifics of the U.S. commitment have yet to be formally outlined and could be governed by future agreements.

*snip*

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Response to steve2470 (Reply #8)

Tue May 1, 2012, 08:20 PM

22. Nation building.

While things at home go down the tubes.

Hurrah!

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Response to TheCowsCameHome (Reply #5)

Tue May 1, 2012, 07:59 PM

10. AP:Highlights of US-Afghanistan agreement

Highlights of the strategic partnership agreement signed in Kabul by President Barack Obama and Afghanistan President Hamid Karzai outlining the relationship between their countries after the U.S.-led war ends in 2014:

- U.S. commits to support Afghanistan's social and economic development, security, institutions and regional cooperation for 10 years, through 2024.

- Afghanistan commits to strengthen government accountability, transparency and oversight, and to protect the human rights of all Afghans, both men and women.

- U.S. does not seek permanent military bases in Afghanistan, but Afghanistan will provide U.S. personnel access to and use of Afghan facilities beyond 2014.

- Allows U.S. possibility of keeping forces in Afghanistan after 2014 for purposes of training Afghan forces and targeting al-Qaida.

MORE...

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2018116425_apasafghanistanagreement.html

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Response to Purveyor (Reply #10)

Tue May 1, 2012, 08:26 PM

29. Meanwhile police are attacking Occupy protestors in Oakland tonight.

Ah the hypocrisy of it all is rich.

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Response to Purveyor (Reply #10)

Tue May 1, 2012, 09:09 PM

32. Targeting Al-Qaida?

Which guy would that be? Panetta himself says there are only 50-100 left in Afghanistan. There's probably more of them in Boston or Brooklyn than in Afghanistan?

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Tue May 1, 2012, 07:57 PM

7. Cause people are actually LISTENING and not paying attention misinformation.

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Response to Rosco T. (Reply #7)

Tue May 1, 2012, 08:04 PM

15. Yeah, I heard that part about the Taliban loud and clear

The unintended message to Afghan women: grab your ankles - you are not going to enjoy this.

Allowing the Taliban to have any part in rebuilding the nation they just destroyed is not just wrong - it is unthinkable.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Tue May 1, 2012, 08:07 PM

16. The end of the war was just announced. Our cooperation with the Afghanistan government will continue

...as a means to support them in training and to be in a counter-terrorism positions (ie the Biden plan).

I have absolutely no problem with this. It means that we will not have a huge force there. It means its no longer an occupation as we are not in control. Its no different than what we did with South Korea after the Korean war.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Tue May 1, 2012, 08:07 PM

17. US/Afghan agreement does NOT keep US troops in Afghanistan past 2014.

(copied from another thread)

It says that the US will support Afghanistan's "social and economic development" after the US troops troops leave in 2014, including POSSIBLY, although not certainly, continuing to provide training for Afghan troops. However, it does not keep the US in a combat or occupation role after the already scheduled end of the war in 2014. In exchange for US support, Afghanistan makes commitments to strengthen government accountability and protect human rights of all Afghans, including women.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2018048900_afghanistan23.html

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Response to Rosco T. (Reply #17)

Tue May 1, 2012, 08:12 PM

19. That is encouraging.

However I'm sure many will expect that to change, or worry that it might, due to a change in circumstances there, some technicality (mercenaries vs. troops?), or what have you.

Also, it's an election year, so ... who knows.

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Response to redqueen (Reply #19)

Tue May 1, 2012, 09:18 PM

33. or we get a Republican in the WH

and a bigger war

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Tue May 1, 2012, 08:22 PM

24. Didn't hear the speech, but Chris Matthews and Joe

Scab made it seem as if the war would continue until 2024. If that's not the case, I guess it's just another case of poor journalism.

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #24)

Tue May 1, 2012, 08:26 PM

28. Very poor journalism.

Troops will be out in 2014. No bases will be built. Financial and other forms of support will continue until 2024. (Arguing about that point is valid. Saying the war will continue for another 12 years is disingenuous and false.)

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Response to boxman15 (Reply #28)

Tue May 1, 2012, 09:25 PM

35. Troops will still be there but as "trainers".

That way you can say combat has ended. There is absolutely no sign of any success in Afghanistan. In fact April was the worst of this year with at least 33 dead.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Tue May 1, 2012, 08:32 PM

30. DID ANYBODY ACTUALLY WATCH THE SPEECH?!?

This is maddening. The war will end in 2014. No troops will be in Afghanistan. No bases will be built. Financial aid and other aid will continue until 2024.

You can be upset the war will continue for another 2 years. You can be upset we're going to be aiding the country for another 12. I'd agree with you partially on the latter. But saying we're going to be at war until 2024 is just false.

Debate the facts. Don't use spin or lies.

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Response to boxman15 (Reply #30)

Tue May 1, 2012, 08:41 PM

31. Thank you.

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Response to boxman15 (Reply #30)

Tue May 1, 2012, 10:01 PM

37. Bases are already built. The USA will fund and train the

Afghan military until 2024 at $4 billion per year.

This may involve 20,000 USA military "trainers" and Special Forces (and increased State Department, mercenaries/contractors, etc.).

Are you a Sufi perchance? Bliss through dervish dancing is cool.

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Response to PufPuf23 (Reply #37)

Tue May 1, 2012, 11:52 PM

38. Afghan military until 2024 at $4 billion per year? israel will be pissed~~ eom

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Tue May 1, 2012, 09:48 PM

36. I am surprised yet not surprised.

Did I expect us to leave Aghanistan by 2014? No. Did I expect it to be 2024? No, even I couldn't actively allow myself to imagine that. I cannot say how disgusted I am at this point. I feel like I've been punched in the gut a bit too often

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