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Sun Apr 29, 2012, 08:22 PM

Nam redux

24 replies, 2097 views

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Arrow 24 replies Author Time Post
Reply Nam redux (Original post)
rasputin1952 Apr 2012 OP
babylonsister Apr 2012 #1
rasputin1952 Apr 2012 #2
babylonsister Apr 2012 #8
Meiko Apr 2012 #3
rasputin1952 Apr 2012 #6
cbayer Apr 2012 #4
rasputin1952 Apr 2012 #5
cbayer Apr 2012 #7
coalition_unwilling Apr 2012 #9
rasputin1952 Apr 2012 #10
coalition_unwilling Apr 2012 #12
rasputin1952 Apr 2012 #14
unhappycamper Apr 2012 #16
pasto76 Apr 2012 #11
rasputin1952 Apr 2012 #15
countryjake Apr 2012 #13
cynatnite Apr 2012 #17
rasputin1952 Apr 2012 #21
cynatnite Apr 2012 #23
Bandit Apr 2012 #18
cynatnite Apr 2012 #19
rgbecker Apr 2012 #20
rasputin1952 Apr 2012 #22
metalbot Apr 2012 #24

Response to rasputin1952 (Original post)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 08:55 PM

1. Some of us give a shit; we want to get out of there yesterday! nt

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Response to babylonsister (Reply #1)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 09:18 PM

2. {{{hug}}}

and unhappycamper says hi...

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Response to rasputin1952 (Reply #2)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 09:37 PM

8. xoxoxoxox to you both!!!

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Response to rasputin1952 (Original post)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 09:23 PM

3. That makes two of us

 

enough is enough...get out already.

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Response to Meiko (Reply #3)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 09:27 PM

6. This eternal war crap is really getting old...

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Response to rasputin1952 (Original post)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 09:24 PM

4. So good to see you again, Ras. Recommending your really moving post here.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #4)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 09:27 PM

5. Nice to see you as well...

I've been absent DU too long...

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Response to rasputin1952 (Reply #5)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 09:36 PM

7. Well, I for one have missed you.

Hope all is well. Feel free to PM me with an update on what's going on with you if you don't want to post it here.

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Response to rasputin1952 (Original post)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 09:40 PM

9. That is one hell of a photo. Makes me glad I was out

 

in the streets of Los Angeles protesting in November 2001 and thereafter, not that my protests accomplished much of substance.

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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #9)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 10:59 PM

10. I can only hope that pictures like this will awaken...

the better angels of our nature and we can succeed in ending war once and for all. Sadly, history shows me that my hope is small indeed, but it is there, along with my voice against war and violence as the means to an end.

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Response to rasputin1952 (Reply #10)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 11:27 PM

12. Actually, I think sometimes wars must be fought (World War II, for example). But

 

Vietnam and Afghanistan are both signal in that neither was a 'war' that had to be fought. Each is more properly thought of as a 'civil war' in which the U.S. took sides (the South Vietnamese puppets in the case of Vietnam and the Northern Alliance thugs and bunco artists in the case of Afghanistan).

Maybe the moral of this story is that the U.S. should only go to war if and when it has been attacked (and then only go to war against its attackers) and not take sides in other nations' civil wars. I do not claim to have all the answers to these questions but they need to be asked repeatedly.

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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #12)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 07:31 AM

14. You can add Korea into the mix as well....

then we have troops all over the world getting involved where they shouldn't be, the Congo is perfect example.

WWII was an extension on WWI. After the depletion of the fighting population, and particularly because of the Flu epidemic which killed more than the war, there simply were not the men to push it any further. After a generation grew into a new fighting strength, the War resumed. Politics had a huge impact, w/Germany being crushed under debt to France, unable to climb out of debt and with little hope to the future, the nazi's won in a plurality, then gained steam through brutal tactics suppressing dissent and when Hitlers war machine produced obs, war became inevitable.

We stayed pretty much out of the fray until 7 Dec 41, there was actually a large contingent of Peace minded people until that Sunday morning...after Pearl Harbor, all bets were off. Our history is replete w/all kinds of wars and excursions, (to include genocide). Smedley Butler's famous remark, "War is a racket" was dead on target. He led Marines into excursions directly against forces that were against American companies, none of them were threats the US proper, it was all about corporate profit. Following WWII, the Marshall Plan was a stroke of genius. Marshall understood that if left on their own, Germany and Japan would suffer intolerably after the war, most likely setting up a WWIII scenario. Once we began aiding former enemies, they became our staunchest allies, proving that a helping hand as opposed to a beating can work wonders beyond what one can dream of.

Today, w/Iraq and Afghanistan and potentially Iran, it is all about corporate profit. I had no problem going after bin-Laden, although I believe he should have been captured and tried by international court if possible as opposed to being assassinated. To me, trundling him up and putting him on the chopper would have been a simple task since they got out of there anyway, even after spending time gaining access to intelligence to include hard drives, etc. A trial of bin-Laden would have been a coup hard to trump, but bullets are cheaper than trials, rope is cheaper than appeals.

I lost a lot of faith in PO, I still have "Hope", but the "Change" is little more than failed policy where force is used to impose one's will upon others...to the point where we are close to being under martial control at this point. The increase in federal power over citizens is at an alarming level, we are becoming what we've always despised, a despotic power bent on empire building as opposed to the force for good we could easily become. War should always be the last option, as Sun-Tzu said so long ago, "the best battle, is the one that is never fought". There are other options before unleashing the hell of war.

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Response to rasputin1952 (Reply #14)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 05:14 PM

16. And Iraq

and Afghanistan
and Yemen
and Uganda
and many more to come.

Obama's taking his Nobel Peace Prize out for a spin or two or three or ......

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Response to rasputin1952 (Original post)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 11:01 PM

11. it is far past time to relieve our troops of this debacle, and the Afghan people

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Response to pasto76 (Reply #11)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 07:32 AM

15. Agreed!

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Response to rasputin1952 (Original post)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 05:09 AM

13. K&R!

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Response to rasputin1952 (Original post)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 05:15 PM

17. You really should put a warning for the graphic nature of the photo.

I don't care for the imagery. I understand your point, however.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #17)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 10:13 PM

21. Sorry about the graphic nature...

I find the entire situation appalling, but the story needs to be told.

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Response to rasputin1952 (Reply #21)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 10:19 PM

23. No argument from me...

I do, however, appreciate warnings on those with graphic photos. I like having the choice of whether or not I want to see a dead body. I've seen enough death that I do my best to avoid it whenever possible.

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Response to rasputin1952 (Original post)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 06:00 PM

18. The dead guy appears to be an unarmed civilian

At least in vietnam we were engaged against the third largest army on the face of the earth and they all mostly wore uniforms..A few were Viet Cong in the early days and they also were civilians but eventually almost all were uniformed soldiers with modern weaponry..

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Response to Bandit (Reply #18)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 06:04 PM

19. There really is no way to know for sure...

They could have taken weapons he may have had. I do wonder about the legality of this photo. The defense department frowns on this kind of posing my military soldiers over the dead bodies of people...civilian or not.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #19)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 08:40 PM

20. At least the guy isn't pissing on the body.

In the picture, that is.

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Response to rgbecker (Reply #20)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 10:15 PM

22. That was also an appalling picture as well...

in fact, going all the way back to the beginning of these fiascoes, horrifying images have come from this hell.

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Response to Bandit (Reply #18)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 10:51 PM

24. Well, except for the kalishnikov lying on the ground behind his head...

..and the chest rig that he's wearing. I'll grant that it is definitely possible that this was simply a civilian off in the hills walking around with his AK-47, but I think your statement of "The dead guy appears to be an unarmed civilian" is a bit of a stretch. There are higher resolution versions of this photo if you care to dig around.

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