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white_wolf

(6,238 posts)
Sat Apr 28, 2012, 01:50 AM Apr 2012

Conservatives claim to be religious, but they don't seem to know what religion is.

Conservatives love to talk about how religious they are, but they seem a bit confused about what it is. It isn't ritual, it isn't praying loudly, it isn't forcing your belief down the throats of others. The Bible makes it very clear what religion is:

"Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world" James 1:27.

See conservatives, that is it. So start taking care of the poor and oppressed. Oh, and you all should probably give up political power since that will likely taint you.

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Conservatives claim to be religious, but they don't seem to know what religion is. (Original Post) white_wolf Apr 2012 OP
They think all they have to do is claim it. tblue Apr 2012 #1
Bingo. Like it's some fully paid lifetime membership in a "basically good people" association Populist_Prole Apr 2012 #12
Actually that is only one version of religion intaglio Apr 2012 #2
The same basic ideas are repeated over and over again CJCRANE Apr 2012 #11
Decypher it then, intaglio Apr 2012 #13
I'm not cherrypicking, I'm talking about the overall meaning and general themes. CJCRANE Apr 2012 #18
You have entirely missed the point intaglio Apr 2012 #21
It is the Christan version of religion. white_wolf Apr 2012 #14
Reminds me of this post from a couple of days ago. pampango Apr 2012 #3
+1 xchrom Apr 2012 #4
WTF is the "Christian Left"? Oromneya Apr 2012 #5
Usually, but the Civil Rights movement OKNancy Apr 2012 #6
True but they did not control the Oromneya Apr 2012 #7
In a sense they did quaker bill Apr 2012 #8
"I consider western Christianity in its practical working a negation of Christ’s Christianity." baldguy Apr 2012 #9
My grandmother is an ultra-Conservative, bible thumping Christian... lilithsrevenge12 Apr 2012 #10
That's an unusually narrow definition loyalsister Apr 2012 #15
It is the Christian definition. white_wolf Apr 2012 #16
Why not restrict the term to Conservative Christians? loyalsister Apr 2012 #19
In religion, there are always the esoteric and the exoteric interpretations. CJCRANE Apr 2012 #17
There are words that can be fullly subjectified loyalsister Apr 2012 #20

Populist_Prole

(5,364 posts)
12. Bingo. Like it's some fully paid lifetime membership in a "basically good people" association
Sat Apr 28, 2012, 12:54 PM
Apr 2012

It's the only reason I can see that so many selfish, truly loathsome conservatives can angrily snarl all week long about their hatred and ill will toward seemingly everybody and everything; and yet: Consider themselves good people or even "good christians" because they are members of that group and pray like crazy on sunday mornings.

intaglio

(8,170 posts)
2. Actually that is only one version of religion
Sat Apr 28, 2012, 04:52 AM
Apr 2012

It is not the thing itself. There are other religions with varying standards, even within the same faith or groups of faiths.

The definition you quote is, firstly, from James about which epistle there is much dispute (to say the least). Next it defines religion as a specific act of charity from the mizvhot. Then lastly it makes an undetermined statement about keeping "unstained"; which, in the context of Judean religion of the first century, would probably refer to not accepting elements from other faiths not sourced within the Jewish world.

The problem is religion is too intangible and as such is used as convenient rhetoric to castigate those the user dislikes and to gather the support of those with similar opinions to the user.

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
11. The same basic ideas are repeated over and over again
Sat Apr 28, 2012, 12:07 PM
Apr 2012

in the Abrahamic faiths (and other religions).

Be kind to those less fortunate than yourselves (they especially mention widows and orphans a lot), look after your family, be respectful to your parents and neighbors, don't say negative things etc. etc.

We all know the basic moral code, it's not that difficult to decipher.

All the rest of it - the dogmas, the demons and angels, saints, heavens and hells, carrots and sticks - well that varies from religion to religion, but the basic idea of treating people with respect is the same.

intaglio

(8,170 posts)
13. Decypher it then,
Sat Apr 28, 2012, 01:41 PM
Apr 2012

Identify this code and do not just give a list of what you believe to be moral. What is the foundation of this list, the source by which we can decide if any given action is moral? If you can truly come up with such a statement then you have outdone all other philosophers and theologians from throughout history for all have tried and all have arrived at different answers

The Bible says many things are moral, not just acts of charity or love. In one part the Bible identifies marriage of a (childless) widow to her husbands brother as "moral" and also the marriage of a woman to her rapist. Jesus, supposedly the most moral man/god who has eve physically existed, said that fathers would be set against sons, that he came "not to bring peace but a sword" and that a divorced woman remarrying was immoral.

Like many Christians (myself included in the past) you cherrypick the bible for the pretty bits that do not offend your own moral sense. In the same way the Christian republicans choose which words of the Bible they see as consistent with their world view and downplay the remainder. Saying they offend against a religion or the morality of a religion ignores the necessary mutability of religion for the changing nature of religion is what ensures its survival.

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
18. I'm not cherrypicking, I'm talking about the overall meaning and general themes.
Sat Apr 28, 2012, 04:25 PM
Apr 2012

Let's take Lord of the Rings, for example. The overall themes are the triumph of good against evil, the importance of friendship and loyalty. Of course there are instances when the good guys do and say the wrong things, but at the end it's pretty clear what the overall message is.

But then the fundamentalists go and tell me it's all about Tom Bombadil. That's cherrypicking for you.

intaglio

(8,170 posts)
21. You have entirely missed the point
Sat Apr 28, 2012, 05:43 PM
Apr 2012

There is no "overall meaning" in the Bible, except there is a God, and no general theme except the general sinfulness of mankind. Every part of the book has been written, re-written, edited and re-edited until all coherence is lost, even the nature of the Biblical God varies in every book of the Bible.

Consider Matthew 15:22-28 where at first a woman pleading for her daughter is sent away with no miraculous help for the sufferer, her daughter, until the mother grovels at his feet and says she is a dog ... is this one of the "general themes"? Is it even moral that the daughter should have her suffering prolonged because the mother did not abase herself? If you deny this as part of your bible of morality then what other parts of the Bible must you discard to keep your belief?

white_wolf

(6,238 posts)
14. It is the Christan version of religion.
Sat Apr 28, 2012, 02:09 PM
Apr 2012

The one conservatives in this country claim to follow. To Christians, the Bible(including James) is the word of God and here the Bible is telling them what their religion should be.

 

Oromneya

(13 posts)
5. WTF is the "Christian Left"?
Sat Apr 28, 2012, 06:27 AM
Apr 2012

Any religion and any political group mixing is BAD NEWS and NEVER turns out good...well IMHO.

OKNancy

(41,832 posts)
6. Usually, but the Civil Rights movement
Sat Apr 28, 2012, 06:30 AM
Apr 2012

and the anti-slavery movement were deeply rooted in Christian activism.

 

Oromneya

(13 posts)
7. True but they did not control the
Sat Apr 28, 2012, 06:33 AM
Apr 2012

political side of things.

Big difference today you now have politicians attempting to put religious laws in to secular laws.

quaker bill

(8,223 posts)
8. In a sense they did
Sat Apr 28, 2012, 07:06 AM
Apr 2012

because it eventually happened. The religious left had a big role in woman's sufferage as well.

 

baldguy

(36,649 posts)
9. "I consider western Christianity in its practical working a negation of Christ’s Christianity."
Sat Apr 28, 2012, 07:40 AM
Apr 2012

Mohandas K. Gandhi

lilithsrevenge12

(136 posts)
10. My grandmother is an ultra-Conservative, bible thumping Christian...
Sat Apr 28, 2012, 07:42 AM
Apr 2012

and my mother always told to keep my mouth shut when she said things so infuriating, I would begin to vibrate in my seat. I think she had a big part in confirming and encouraging my thoughts about how crazy these people are. I'm still young and i truly believe my opinions and beliefs of people should expand with every year that passes. This year I'm opening my eyes to the fact that conservatives do not define the Christian faith, and it's really sad that I had to come to that conclusion on my own. Because of Republicans I assumed every Christian was filled with hate, double standards, and anything but acceptance, but more and more stories have been surfacing about how churches are fighting the shallow mind box they've been stuffed into. People who are involved in a faith based community really are good people, and for the most part, really are accepting and show goodwill to wards their fellow man.

I may think you're crazy for believing in a talking snake, but between the media and government, we've let those with power redefine what it means to be religious. I've wanted Christians to prove my beliefs about them wrong, and they doing a great job. I just wish they would get more credit, instead of only getting headlines for hating fags and shooting abortion doctors.

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
15. That's an unusually narrow definition
Sat Apr 28, 2012, 02:21 PM
Apr 2012

In common usage religion, religiosity, religious practice, religious ideals, etc... refer to a common understanding of religion as a belief system that often includes rituals. One person I know said that someone was not religious if they supported same sex marriage among other things. I would never challenge that person's irrational belief system as not being religious. She believes fervently in the ideology behind those opinions. She worships a God and performs rituals that reinforce those beliefs.

Most agree that satanism is a religion. There is nothing inherently positive or negative implied by the term "religion" when it comes to our generally agreed upon meaning.

Have you ever seen Bull Durham?

white_wolf

(6,238 posts)
16. It is the Christian definition.
Sat Apr 28, 2012, 02:49 PM
Apr 2012

Conservatives claim to follow the Christian religion. I'm not a Christian, but Conservatives claim to be so they should follow the Bible's definition of religion. For the record, I don't think there is anything positive or negative about religion, but this thread is meant to highlight the hypocrisy of the religious right.

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
19. Why not restrict the term to Conservative Christians?
Sat Apr 28, 2012, 04:28 PM
Apr 2012

Is the word simply not to be used by people of other faiths?

Are you really arguing a religious justification for restricting a general term with global, commonly agreed upon meaning to be relevant only to a particular set of beliefs?

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
17. In religion, there are always the esoteric and the exoteric interpretations.
Sat Apr 28, 2012, 03:08 PM
Apr 2012

Put bluntly, the exoteric stuff is the simple stories and rituals for the masses, the esoteric side is the deep meaning. Particularly with Hebrew, some of the words and symbols have deeper meanings as do the parables.

People who rigidly follow the rituals without thinking about the purpose of it or the deeper meaning are missing the point.

For example in Christianity, Judaism and Islam you have rituals like prayer, fasting, giving to charity etc. These rituals are not intended to turn the practitioner into an arrogant SOB, it's obvious that they're meant to make people more humble, more caring, more giving etc.

People who claim to be religious, especially fundamentalists, should be aware of the overall meaning of their religion, not just selected phrases here and there.

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
20. There are words that can be fullly subjectified
Sat Apr 28, 2012, 04:34 PM
Apr 2012

But, religion is not one of them. More people agree on the definition below than one restricted to a particular faith. It's like trying to restrict the word "round" to a perfect sphere.

Religion is a collection of cultural systems, belief systems, and worldviews that establishes symbols that relate humanity to spirituality and, sometimes, to moral values.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion

Truth and morality are determined within any given religious community.

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