A thread of support for the Greek 99%

[MannyGoldstein]

The world's 99% are being crushed by the economic policies of the bankers, and their paid political help on the Right and the "Sensible Adult" Left.

Ending this disastrous state of affairs will not be easy, but the Greek people are giving it a shot. Let's hope, for the sake of all who suffer so the rich can make a few more bucks, that they make some progress.

They are trying.

[hifiguy]

1. Rec/kick. nt

[libtodeath]

2. rec x1000

I hope they crush the banksters that have stolen the worlds wealth.

[Cali_Democrat]

3. I read an interesting article today about the Greeks wanting Germany to pay WW2 reparations:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141009369

[peacebird]

4. K&R

[Warren DeMontague]

5. I don't know, man, Fraternities were never my thing.

....what?

[rhett o rick]

6. I bet this time next week the President will be saying the same thing. Manny has a gift.

But let's not go there.

[Mosby]

7. 50% of Greeks cheat on their taxes

30 billion per year of lost revenue.

[MannyGoldstein]

14. What percentage of Americans? nt

[OnlinePoker]

16. That's not the issue in THIS thread.

Greece's annual deficit is 22 Billion Euros. If everybody paid their taxes, the government wouldn't have to keep going hat in hand to the rest of the world looking for money to keep them afloat and their crisis would be manageable.

[MannyGoldstein]

17. My understanding is that Greece is running a surplus

Other than debt repayment, and that onerous terms on the 99%, like wage reduction, were imposed on Greece by agreement with previous governments. The current government wants to renegotiate those terms. Did those terms include stopping tax evasion?

My understanding is that most of the cheating is done by the well off, as it is in America, and I'd imagine that the new government will do what it reasonably can.

[JDPriestly]

27. Wonder how many of them cheated via HSBC.

[erronis]

78. BS. If everyone in the US paid their fair share

We wouldn't have our incredible inbalance in the haves and havenots.

We all know that most high-level income (and I include graft, bribes, non-reported, etc.) is not declared on any tax form.

The lower-income peasants (and yes, that includes most of us that rely on wages) have been coerced into having to pay our "dues" up front. UncleS gets his first.

The poor top .1% have to hire fancy accountants to make sure that they don't pay like the riff-raff. It's OK, spend a few $10,000 to hide your $1,000,000s - cost of doing business (ala RMoney).

[hack89]

64. The Geek shadow economy is 27% of GDP. In America it is about 9%

According to a remarkable presentation that a member of Greece’s central bank gave last fall, the gap between what Greek taxpayers owed last year and what they paid was about a third of total tax revenue, roughly the size of the country’s budget deficit. The “shadow economy”—business that’s legal but off the books—is larger in Greece than in almost any other European country, accounting for an estimated 27.5 per cent of its G.D.P. (In the United States, by contrast, that number is closer to nine per cent.) And the culture of evasion has negative consequences beyond the current crisis. It means that the revenue burden falls too heavily on honest taxpayers. It makes the system unduly regressive, since the rich cheat more. And it’s wasteful: it forces the government to spend extra money on collection (relative to G.D.P., Greece spends four times as much collecting income taxes as the U.S. does), even as evaders are devoting plenty of time and energy to hiding their income.

Greece, it seems, has struggled with the first rule of a healthy tax system: enforce the law. People are more likely to be honest if they feel there’s a reasonable chance that dishonesty will be detected and punished. But Greek tax officials were notoriously easy to bribe with a fakelaki (small envelope) of cash. There was little political pressure for tougher enforcement. On the contrary: a recent study showed that enforcement of the tax laws loosened in the months leading up to elections, because incumbents didn’t want to annoy voters and contributors. Even when the system did track down evaders, it was next to impossible to get them to pay up, because the tax courts typically took seven to ten years to resolve a case. As of last February, they had a backlog of three hundred thousand cases.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2011/07/11/dodger-mania#ixzz1uPEt42My

[sabrina 1]

48. And most of their top 1% cheat on everything. I hope the Greeks do what Iceland did

and start arresting their crooked politicians and bankers. Maybe the Greek people will have jobs when they retrieve what has been stolen from them, THEN they can pay their taxes.

[bvar22]

77. !!!!!

[daschess1987]

50. Source? That is an issue... nt

[Mosby]

60. look at these google results

https://www.google.com/#safe=off&q=greece+tax+cheats

[libodem]

8. Oh Hell, yeah!

[zeemike]

9. And perhaps one day we will join them.

At least we can hope.

[sabrina 1]

49. They were the first to be targeted by the Global economic coup d'etat group. I remember the

demonstrations every day, and even Protest Dog, wonder where he is now.




Protest Dog confronting the police



He knew which side he was on

[zeemike]

57. I had forgotten about Protest Dog.

But dogs are always on the side of people.

[azmom]

69. What a good doggie!

[ReRe]

80. Thanks for those pics...

I loved "Protest Dog."

[Dragonfli]

10. Of course, I will always support those that support the people

It is especially encouraging in such cases where those that would hoard all the wealth as the people starve (human parasites) are thwarted by a population without need of bloodshed. The french revolution was necessary against such parasites in the past, peaceful revolutions however are far superior to those such as myself that love peace and hate bloodshed, even when the blood shed is that of the parasites.

It appears as if they may be successful in this peaceful revolution, I can think of nothing I would support more.

[yuiyoshida]

11. For a moment Manny I thought you were talking about this guy...

[MannyGoldstein]

25. And lose the last four DUers that don't hate me?

Tempting... but not yet.

[yuiyoshida]

51. lol

[Denis 11]

12. Rec

[Fred Sanders]

15. Je Suis Syriza. Je Suis Bolivia.

[elleng]

18. DU discussion here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6167018

[Fumesucker]

19. Good thread, Manny

Good to see you back, TWM harshes the DU mellow a bit, you're almost too good at it.

[Jack Rabbit]

20. Nous sommes SYRIZA

[center]

[/center][font size="1"]From Wikipedia Commons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Eugène_Delacroix_-_La_liberté_guidant_le_peuple.jpg)
(Public Domain)
[/font]

[MannyGoldstein]

26. Wonderful art.

Sad that it so often comes down to armed conflict.

[nc4bo]

21. Best wishes to the People of Greece!! nt

[wildbilln864]

22. k & freakin r! Go Greece! That is all.

[Phlem]

23. K&R! K&R! K&R! K&R!

Nice call out Manny.

[tomg]

24. K&R. . .

[Ramses]

28. kicking

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

29. Greece just got a "government of the people, by the people, for the people". K&R

Maybe we should try the same idea here some day.

[Luminous Animal]

34. To get it, you have to fight for it. See my post #32.

[rurallib]

30. Yep - I'm in!

[jwirr]

31. Finally someone is thinking about the people. What good is an organization like EU if it does not

work for the common good. And yes I know they think working for the corporations is good. I do not. There is hardly any nation that does not trace its origin back to an interest in the needs of the people. And yes, I know that the people seldom get what they are looking for.

The EU does not seem to care much for the needs of the people in its member countries. Instead it is representing only the banksters and corporations.

[Luminous Animal]

32. And this is how they did it...

&feature=share

A friend of my daughter, who is a filmmaker, was in Cairo in the aftermath of the Arab Spring with his best friend who is Egyptian and lives there and experienced it. Then he went back to Athens where he grew up and currently lives. He's making a fictional movie based on the real events that he and his friend experienced in both cities. I love this young man like a son and the description he once wrote of him being tear gassed was heart breaking.

In order to secure the footage seen in the trailer of his yet unfinished film, he's been beat up by the police and members of Golden Dawn, tear gassed, and threatened with imminent death (and escaping such by his wits). He is remarkable person.

I sincerely hope he gets to finish the movie.

[MannyGoldstein]

35. That looks pretty awesome

The footage is great - although (everyone's a critic) the story's not clear from that trailer. Or is it a trailer?

I wish him great success, we need more powerful images of revolution to spur us on!

[Luminous Animal]

37. Thanks, Manny! It is a trailer and I am glad the story is not clear.

Too many trailers spill the entire plot of the movie.

[MrMickeysMom]

47. I sure hope they finish this...

The world needs to see, starting with Portuguese, Italy, Spain…

[azmom]

71. I recently saw "The Square" on Netflix. It was a street view

Of the Egyptian revolution and had the same feel as this. People being gassed, shot at and hundreds being arrested.

[WillyT]

33. Huge K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

[Cosmic Kitten]

36. Greeks are Populists? who knew?!?

[Luminous Animal]

38. Could you elaborate?

[MrMickeysMom]

39. They have leadership...

99% is showing up and sticking to what you said you would do…

[Luminous Animal]

40. They had people in the streets willing to die.

[MrMickeysMom]

41. Ahem...

(no minor detail, eh?)

[Luminous Animal]

44. Indeed leadership arises from the will of the people.

The fascist contingent, Golden Dawn, had, at one point, near as much chance to carry the vote. But the people rejected fascism and are willing to give the left a chance.

And I have little doubt that the CIA and the NSA and GBHQ are working over time to fuck over the new Greek government.

[MrMickeysMom]

46. Of THAT, I have no doubt...

I can't think of another model in the crosshairs of NSA CIA and the Banksters than that choice. I want to learn more about this.

[azmom]

74. They are dangerous because of their

Honesty. Italy had a seizure when Yanis dared to say that they were broke too and that if Greece fell it would be next in line. Yanis told them it was all a house of cards.

[Thespian2]

42. K&R

Some how this disaster in the world must be turned around. I truly hope the Greek people are completely successful in their important attempt at change.

[spanone]

43. k&r...

[Luminous Animal]

45. How long before we here from the NY Times that Alexis Tsipras is a dictator.

[polly7]

52. K&R. nt.

[Enthusiast]

53. The 99% have my support—100%.

[demigoddess]

54. K&R

[hedgehog]

55. My heroes! Go Greece!

[woo me with science]

56. K&R

[KG]

58. I'm sure there's a racist, obama bashing angle to this post.

I just haven't figured it out yet...

[LeftishBrit]

59. Best wishes for Greece!

[mountain grammy]

61. I hope this government can stand up and represent the people..

I have hope with this election.

[raouldukelives]

62. K&R for self-determination & damn those who oppose it both at home & abroad. nt

[marmar]

63. absolutely!

[font size="5"]?????ί? ??? ??ό[/font]

[FairWinds]

65. Go Manny and the Greek 99% . . BUT

As I wrote on another thread, Greece needs to seriously deal with its military spending.

This is from a recent LA Times . .

"Yet despite the [military] cuts, Greece continues to spend the largest per capita amount for defense of any nation in the European Union. According to the independent Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, Greece's military spending in 2011 equaled 2.1% of its gross domestic product, compared with the EU average of less than 1.6%.
If successive governments in Athens had spent less than 1.6% over the last 20 years, economists say, Greece could have saved a total of 52% of its GDP, sparing Greeks from international bailouts and grueling austerity."

Of course, it's the same in the US, where we too are being bankrupted by obscene military spending, which, using non-phony accounting is close to an unustainable $ 1.2 trillion per year.

This message brought to you by . . Veterans For Peace

[randome]

66. There's nothing that says pride and independence than begging Germany for money.

And demanding a bigger bailout from the EU. And doing nothing about the insane level of tax cheating in Greece.

This doesn't seem like it's going to end well.

Get your hats out now.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]

[LiberalLovinLug]

67. K & R

Austerity, another term for Trickle Down imposed @ 100x speed. Stripping the middle and poor classes and lavishing the 1% with extra income they don't need. Then there's a snowball effect where the 1% get even more influential and demand even more breaks while their MSM poodles scream about the greedy population and how much they need to give up their "entitlements" for the nation to survive.

Its happening everywhere. Its just easier to see in an accelerated version like in Greece. Disgusting.

[lark]

68. Go Greece Go

Prove the austerity, all taxes/fees paid by the poor not the rich, crowd wrong wrong wrong.

[TheKentuckian]

72. That has been accomplished whether the austerians will fess to it or not.

Now it is about finding a way to climb out of the whole that won't dig it deeper.

[azmom]

75. Yep. That they won't fess up is absurd.

They want to keep lending Greece money in order to keep up the charade.

[azmom]

70. Yanis rocks!!!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nancy-kotting/yanis-varoufakis-the-unpo_b_6644126.html

[Spitfire of ATJ]

73. It really scares the 1% that they have to obey a law written by the 99%....

That's why they ACT like they don't and focus on secret corporate laws to make their own illicit behavior legal.

[DonCoquixote]

76. Greece

May you once again teach the world what Democracy is. The bankers are not your countrymen, but the equivalent of Xerxes and is amry of so called "immortals."

[shaayecanaan]

79. they need to nationalise the banks

institute capital controls, and relaunch the drachma. I would also sack a number of generals who were too close to the old regime, just in case.

The Greeks elected the left to do what needs to be done, not to keep begging from the Germans.

[colsohlibgal]

81. Hurrah For The Greek 99%!

We could take some lessons and be less obedient/oblivious sheep like.

[woo me with science]

82. kick

[blackspade]

83. +1000