Letter: Joni Ernst is not a combat veteran.

[elleng]

Joni Ernst claims to be a “Combat Veteran." That claim implies that her mission was to actively engage the enemy in combat. However, Mrs. Ernst is not a member of any “combat arms” unit. Infantry, artillery and armor are combat arms units. Mrs. Ernst was the Commanding Officer of Transportation Company. This company was responsible for the delivery of water, fuel and other supplies to units in secure areas. Joni Ernst did not lead her troops into combat, as one of her ads claims. Mrs. Ernst’s troops were not combat personnel, and their mission was not combat. Essentially, Mrs. Ernst was in charge of a group of truck drivers. I am sure that the mission of supply delivery had many potential hazards, but driving trucks from one secure area to another secure area is not combat, even if personnel were armed with M16s.

As an Army veteran of the Vietnam War, I was awarded the CIB, Combat Infantryman Badge, to signify my participation in combat. The photos of Mrs. Ernst in uniform shows that this award is absent. Any claims that she is a “Combat Veteran” seem to be a greatly overstated misrepresentation and perhaps a violation of the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

http://www.iowastatedaily.com/dct/article_75aea20c-54b1-11e4-b812-cf4aa783e9fb.html#.VMUoLcQSvEw.facebook

[Skittles]

1. my initial impression of her was she is a complete phony

I was correct

[central scrutinizer]

65. So instead of (R - !A)

She should be identified as (REMF - IA)

[Thinkingabout]

2. Well, we find out her family received farm subsidies and in her old position her

Family received government contracts, we will probably find out she never assisted in the hog castration. Not looking good for the up and perhaps going down darling of the GOP. Sarah a d now Joni.

[elleng]

4. but she's got a 6 year seat in the Senate.

to her, and Iowa.

[Thinkingabout]

5. People who listens to FOX believes any story.

[elleng]

6. Exactly.

We are SO screwed.

[Stephen Retired]

11. Yep

And it doesn't matter whether it's a Phillips or not.

[gratuitous]

13. Indeed

Thanks to the bulldogs of the Fourth Estate for being all over this during the campaign. And thank you, Iowa, for putting this nincompoop in the Senate.

[bullwinkle428]

3. Could this conceivably be a case of "stolen valor"?

[xocet]

33. That is an interesting question. n/t

[PatrynXX]

34. wouldn't be the first time a Senator would end up behind bars n/t

[TreasonousBastard]

7. Two questions...

Why would this hurt her any more than chickenhawk Shrub's "service" hurt him?

And, perhaps more important, why wasn't all this shit about her a big deal BEFORE the election?

[elleng]

8. Good questions.

[ToxMarz]

39. Well she is a woman, and they aren't so supportive of that demographic

[Recursion]

9. In the Marines, members of Combat Service Support units can receive the Combat Action Ribbon

At which point they are "combat veterans". Is that not true in the Army?

[elleng]

12. It appears not,

from the Letter.

[pinboy3niner]

15. The Army has a relatively-new 'Combat Action Badge' created in 2005

It recognizes combat support troops who are directly exposed to combat who do not qualify for the Combat Infantryman Badge.

Men and women in the Reserve Transportation Company at the local Armory have been awarded this badge for their tour in Afghanistan, where they suffered 1 KIA and several WIA.

[Recursion]

16. Then again all Marines do infantry training

And we all get rifles under our chevrons, so that may be a philosophical difference.

[pinboy3niner]

19. Soldiers have to serve in combat in an Infantry MOS to be awarded the CIB

So not even other combat arms troops are eligible for it. And combat medics have their own, separate badge.

I know a guy who humped the boonies with an Infantry company for a year in VN as an arty forward observer. His big regret was not being eligible for the CIB.

[Recursion]

21. Huh. Well, I think the Marines' way is better, but the rules are the rules

That's a pretty shocking screw-up on Ernst's part.

[Raine1967]

17. She is a woman. When did the Marines accept Women in

Combat service Support?

Think it was only last year when the Administration said women could serve in combat missions.

Having said that, I don't believe she was a combat veteran. From her wiki page with annotations:

Military career
Ernst is a lieutenant colonel in the logistics branch and currently commands the 185th Combat Sustainment Support Battalion at Camp Dodge, the largest battalion in the Iowa Army National Guard.[10][11] As of 2014, Ernst had served 21 years between the Army Reserve and the National Guard. She spent 14 months in Kuwait in 2003-2004 as a company commander during Operation Iraqi Freedom.[8][12][13] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joni_Ernst

I am not a military person so I may think of combat vets a little differently than those who served.

She is a Vet. I would never diminish that fact.

[Recursion]

18. Combat Service Support is everybody who's not in infantry, armor, artillery, or aviation

So, truck drivers, HVAC repair, computer programmers, cooks (the Corps doesn't have those any more), supply clerks, etc., are all "combat service support".

[Raine1967]

20. Thanks for the answer.

Does that make her a Combat Vet? is there a difference between saying Combat Service Support and Combat Vet?

(not being snarky, it is a real question)

Once again, I say, she is a woman. It was only last year when the Army opened up Combat roles to women. http://www.army.mil/article/118930/

[Recursion]

22. Sorry, "Combat Service Support" is a Marine Corps-only designation

We're also the only branch that puts the crossed rifles on every person's uniform and sends everyone (male or female) to infantry training regardless of their job.

I was just surprised that the Army doesn't offer a combat badge for non-infantry personnel (pinboy39er upthread says they have recently added one).

[braddy]

23. They send all Marines to Infantry training? So every male/female is a fully qualified infantryman?

Since when?

[Recursion]

24. It used to be literally everyone did the full infantry school

And then went on to their MOS school (since at least WWII). Nowadays after boot you go to the School of Infantry and do the first half of the full infantry course (~3 weeks or so) and then another week that's a quick rundown of the remaining stuff like the LAW, CQW, air support, etc. Then again that was a decade ago, and it may have changed since then.

But, yeah, "every Marine a rifleman": the programmers know how to patrol in a rifle platoon, and the lawyers know how to command one.

[braddy]

27. I knew they went to basic training, but when did every Marine become fully school trained

infantry? Do you have a source for these claims that every Marine is a fully trained infantryman, what branch of the service wastes the money and time to fully school train each recruit in an MOS that they will never use?

[Recursion]

28. Every single Marine has gone to the School of Infantry (or Basic School for Officers)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Marine_Corps_School_of_Infantry

I imagine any Commandant would resign before changing that.

As the article points out, since about 20 years ago Infantry and other MOS's now train in different battalions, but until the end of the cold war or so it was literally one big training pool.

what branch of the service wastes the money and time to fully school train each recruit in an MOS that they will never use?

The Corps is a very small branch and does its own support; part of its "force in readiness" posture is that literally any Marine can be called on to fulfill an infantry role at any time. One of the main reasons I joined, actually.

[braddy]

30. So they are not fully trained infantry, they take a shorter combat course, to give them the basics.

[Recursion]

36. They are fully-trained infantry

And they have received more infantry training than an Army infantry private has received.

Personnel assigned to infantry MOSes receive additional training in the particulars of their MOS. But every single Marine is fully trained and qualified to serve in a rifle platoon, and hopefully that will always be true.

[Panich52]

31. Ernst diminishes her own vet status

Sonme vets may be prone to overstating their service, but to do so f/ political gain disrespects veterans. Its intent is to boost credibility, therefore bamboozling the electorate. It's a type of fraud.

[atreides1]

52. In other words

Senator Ernst was in the rear with the gear!

Known by the term REMF(Rear Echelon Mother F**ker)

[whopis01]

60. Why does it matter when the marines allowed women into combat service support? n/t

[busterbrown]

10. A real thank you for your service..

my best friend was part of the Khe sanh catastrophe..

Just passed with skin cancer last year.. What a tough but nice guy he was..

[MADem]

14. They're forgetting how she did battle with all those hogs down on the farm!!!!

I am quite sure she regards that as combat!!!

[lexington filly]

25. My ex was considered a war zone (combat) veteran but wasn't even in a country where

there was a war. My ex-husband was a Transportation officer in the Army during the Viet Nam war and was stationed in Thailand where I flew over and joined him as other wives did on our own. (Other guys just lived with Thai girls.) We (husband and wives, etc.) lived off base in a beach town and I got a job teaching for a British oil company. He and the other guys stationed in Thailand in Transportation won the lottery and that fact never escaped us. Because their jobs directly supported the men actually in the war, they were given that military designation. It was a wrong and unearned title then, and if they're still doing it......
So I wonder if Senator Ernst was in Kuwait or other country or safely ensconced in the Green Zone. At her level, she was only pushing paper somewhere.

[bluestateguy]

26. I think the important question is, was she ever in a combat situation?

Was she ever thrown into a situation where her unit was attacked or her unit was otherwise thrust into a situation that could be described as combat.

I know that so-called non-combat units get attacked all the time, so I'm trying to keep an open mind here.

That's why there needs to be an investigation.

[AtheistCrusader]

29. Yeah, I'd be careful about this one.

I have more than one friend in the WA National Guard that 'drove trucks' from 'one secure area to another' and they got shot at plenty, and were mortared plenty on base, in Iraq.

It's possible the criticism in the OP is valid, it's possible Joni could turn this around on people as an example of 'swiftboating', in a real hurry.

[elleng]

32. The Letter says:

'As an Army veteran of the Vietnam War, I was awarded the CIB, Combat Infantryman Badge, to signify my participation in combat. The photos of Mrs. Ernst in uniform shows that this award is absent. Any claims that she is a “Combat Veteran” seem to be a greatly overstated misrepresentation and perhaps a violation of the Uniform Code of Military Justice.'

I'm ok with it.

[AtheistCrusader]

40. That doesn't make the letter accurate.

As many posters have pointed out in this thread, things have changed, across services, and across theaters, since Vietnam.

There are roles and functions across services during Vietnam, that may not have qualified under the same rules as a WWII Vet.

[nikto]

35. OMG----This must be the FIRST TIME a Conservative ever lied about their military service

[Enthusiast]

50. Pffft!

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[exboyfil]

37. 144 women have been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan

We should be thankful for her service. I didn't vote for her. I was a supporter of Braley in the election (as well as Braley's prior Representative elections). I think we make a mistake on this board criticizing either her military service or her time on the farm. Lets criticize her policies and not her personally. Given how dangerous Iraq was it is not unreasonable to consider anyone who served in country as a combat veteran.

I remember when my dad's obituary was first written. It stated he was a Vietnam veteran which was not true in my mind. He served stateside in active duty during the war, but they said it was typical to classify these individuals as Vietnam veterans. I did have them change it to Vietnam era veteran.

[NBachers]

38. A look at comments in the Iowa State Daily state that she may qualify due to updated combat rules.

It's worth reading, just for the sake of accuracy and discussion.

I'm no friend of Joni Ernst, but she may be telling the truth.

http://www.iowastatedaily.com/dct/article_75aea20c-54b1-11e4-b812-cf4aa783e9fb.html?mode=comments

[gwheezie]

41. I'll thank her for her service

I'm not going to minimize her service. She went to Iraq during a war. There weren't many safe places over there. I think she's a raving loon because of some of the positions she's taken.

[Savannahmann]

42. I disagree. In fact, I could not disagree more.

The wars we are fighting now are unlike anything we've experienced before. Those truck convoys have come under attack. The secure areas have come under attack. People fight their way through to the destination firing at enemy locations, and taking fire. This is why we armored up all of our vehicles. It wasn't so that huge cargo carrying trucks could rush to the front, but so that the supplies could get from secure area through the unsecured areas, to another base, which is theoretically secure.

I take issue with most everything that Ernst says. I can't think of a single issue I am in agreement with her about. However, the one area I do not take issue with is her service. By the standards of this asinine letter Tammy Duckworth is not a Combat Veteran, which must be a big surprise for the people who supply her wheelchair. I mean, she was flying from one secure area to another right?

Did Senator Duckworth get the Combat Infantrymans Badge? No? Why not if she was in combat? Because it is available to one small segment of the military, the Infantry. They do not award infantry badges to truck drivers, Engineers, Armor units, or anyone but Infantry.

The reason we want all of our troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan is not because the infantry gets shot at. But because all of them are in danger for a goal that is either indescribable, or unacheivable. Too much risk, for little or no gain.

But to tell those who were injured, or the families of those killed by IED's, RPG's, Machine gun fire, or whatever death visited them during the convoy that they were not in combat for cheesy political points is asinine.

Take issue with Ernst on issues. Absolutely show that she's a hypocrite for taking farm subsidies while decrying them for others. Show she's an idiot on every single issue. But don't tell the families of those maimed, or killed, that they were not in combat because you want to go for the trifecta. Whoever wrote that letter is an ass. Quoting them because you hate Joni Ernst diminishes all of us, and belittles the thousands who were injured, or killed, and didn't get the coveted CIB because they weren't in an infantry unit.

Watch some videos on Youtube. Look up convoy attacked. See the bombs go off, the rockets flying, the people hit, maimed, killed. Tell me that they are not in combat because they aren't in the Infantry.

[catnhatnh]

47. Tammy Duckworth's decorations (from Wiki page)

Purple Heart
Meritorious Service Medal Air Medal
Army Commendation Medal with Oak leaf cluster
Army Reserve Components Achievement Medal with four Oak leaf clusters
Combat Action Badge
Senior Army Aviator Badge

The combat action badge is what army people without an 11MOS get for entering into combat.

This badge is not listed in Joni Ernst's bio...

[Bandit]

54. By your reckoning then when someone goes off at a US military installation, everyone at that

installation is a combat vet. Remember when (I can't remember his name) shot all those soldiers and is just now going to trial. That was considered an act of terror by the right wing, so I guess every soldier at that facility is now a "Combat Vet"..When the military considers you to be in "combat" they issue you "Combat Pay" Did she get that?

[Glengoolie]

43. MOS does not a combat veteran make...

The author is talking out of their ass...

[betsuni]

44. Shoeless Joni Ernst from Iowa and her Field of Dreams.

[Orrex]

45. We can't see her CIB in those pics because it was covered by her bread bags.

[Blue Owl]

46. Her mother wears combat breadbags

[Orrex]

48. Snap!

[Enthusiast]

49. Kicked

and recommended a whole bunch!

[oldandhappy]

51. She is a marine.

I give her that. She has training, she got promoted, she was a soldier. And from this thread I would say she clearly exaggerates. And after that, I am more interested in her behavior today. In the same way I recognize that McCain was a prisoner of war and I honor that, I focus on his behavior today. I live next door to the Hunter district. He talks constantly about the military. But he votes against benefits for the military. It is a then and now thing. I look at now.

[whopis01]

59. She is not a marine. n/t

[oldandhappy]

62. I stand corrected.

Yikes. I fell for something along the way. I believe you. But, what is she?

[pinboy3niner]

63. She's Iowa National Guard (Army). nt

[oldandhappy]

64. oh!

I am glad to get this straightened out. I respect the National Guard. But, really, her service does get presented in another way. I am somewhat red in the face.

[whopis01]

66. I believe she is a Lt Colonel in the Iowa National Guard

and was in the army reserves.

As far as the combat veteran status goes - honestly I don't know. From my reading it appears that service in Kuwait at that time would qualify someone for combat veteran benefits through the VA - but I don't know if that is what people mean when they talk about combat veterans.

As far as I am concerned it doesn't really matter. I mean, if she is lying about it that is one thing - but I think by at least some interpretations she is correct - but in any case I don't believe that being a veteran, or a combat veteran makes you any more or less qualified to be a lawmaker.

[Bandit]

53. Did she receive "Combat Pay" or as it is called now Hazardous Duty Pay?

If not then she is not a Combat Veteran.

[pinboy3niner]

55. She probably did

During OIF she spent 14 months commanding a Transportation Company that was based in Kuwait, running convoys into Iraq. Kuwait was a designated hostile fire zone, which I believe would have qualified her to receive combat pay.

[IADEMO2004]

56. The Iowa Guard had their necks exposed. Remember the PA National Guard in '91

http://www.army.mil/article/35248/Ceremony_Marks_19th_Anniversary_of_Scud_Missile_Attack/

On Feb. 25, 1991, approximately 70 Soldiers from the 14th Quartermaster Company had just deployed to Saudi Arabia in support of Operation Desert Storm, preparing to provide water purification support. At 8:40 pm (12:40 pm EST), an Iraqi Scud missile hit their barracks, killing 13 and wounding 43 of the unit's Soldiers.


Now Joni Ernst is an evil android mfg. by Koch Inc.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

57. Ellen, you must live a charmed life, when I said what you said i was ATTACKED by SEVERAL

of the same people around here who attack me anytime I express my position on something

weird

wonder why they focus on me so much, hmmm

[elleng]

61. I have no idea why that would be, Justice.

I'm sorry you've had that experience here.

[Cha]

67. Ellen posted a Letter from a Combat Vet, NJNP.. I remember that thread.. one reason I was glad

to see this OP.

[John Cole]

68. VA regulations show Ernst is not a combat vet

The term “combat veteran” has some legal significance because it is defined by the Veterans Administration and used to determine some VA disability benefits, so it isn’t really open to interpretation by the public. Joni Ernst is a war veteran, but not a combat veteran. Reference the VA’s “13. General Information on Developing Claims for Service Connection for PTSD”. The VA defines combat veteran by listing the combat decorations a veteran must have earned in order to meet the combat veteran definition. Joni Ernst was not awarded a single combat decoration. She was awarded the Army Commendation Medal but it does not have a “V” device, and that is a key difference. She was never awarded any of the combat decorations that the VA says you must have to prove that you were engaged in combat. The VA rules go on to state that receipt of “campaign medals alone does not generally indicate engagement in combat.” VA regulations are controlling on this matter; if the VA says a veteran doesn’t qualify as a combat veteran then the veteran isn’t one. For Joni Ernst to continue claiming that she is a combat veteran indicates her lack of knowledge on this issue, and in her position that is remarkable.