Russia’s “Trans Driving Ban” Doesn’t Really Target LGBT Community - The Daily Beast

[MattSh]

An overhyped government decree had much different problems than the ones originally reported, but Western media coverage has led to an anti-LGBT backlash within Russia.

“Russian Government Bars Transgender People From Obtaining Drivers Licenses!”

Such were the headlines on prominent gay blogs, most linking to a BBC story to the same effect.

Trouble is, it isn’t true. And the media reporting, say activists, has made things worse.

“On 6 January the Russian government issued a decree that approved a list of medical conditions and diagnoses leading to full or partial limitation of the right to drive a vehicle,” emailed Anastasia Smirnova, former Project Manager of the Russian LGBT Network and now Programmes & Policy Officer at ILGA-Europe. (ILGA, the International Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans, and Intersex Association, is a worldwide federation of LGBT organizations from 110 countries. Smirnova is also a participant in The Daily Beast’s recent Quorum: Global LGBT Voices program.)

Complete story at - http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/15/russia-s-trans-driving-ban-doesn-t-really-target-lgbt-community-it-actually-targets-the-mentally-ill.html


So, lets recap...

The BBC prints a story that's doubleplusgood because it's anti-Putin or anti-Russia AND it fits the current narrative of the Ministries of Truth in both Washington DC and London. Except it's not really true, aka as an untruth, aka as a lie.

It gets promoted as major news on many important news sites, including here, where it is k&r-ed to the high heavens. Then the TRUE story comes out, and so do the crickets. Go ahead. Prove me wrong.

And to top it all, because of the insane promotion of this story because it meets all the important doubleplusgoodthink criteria, even though it's actually crude propaganda, real people end up getting hurt as a result. But small people must get hurt because lies and propaganda about Putin and Russia is the only thing that matters these days. Screw the small people.

[marym625]

1. Are you serious?

Did you actually read the article?

[MattSh]

33. Yes I did. Did you?

[marym625]

34. Yes, I did.

Hence my question to you.

I don't understand, at all, how you can post this, especially with your dare to spread the propaganda that this doesn't target transgender people. Yes, it includes many different psychological issues. Included in the list is

(F64) Gender identity disorders 

(F64.0) Transsexualism 
(F64.1) Dual-role transvestism 
(F64.2) Gender identity disorder of childhood

Therefore, transgender people are on a list of people who may not be able to obtain a drivers license or only obtain a limited one.

Right there in black and white.

And I don't give a shit where this law is in place. The anger and outrage by people who are part of the LGBT community and our allies has zero to do with the fact it's Russia. If it were England or Zimbabwe, we would be just as pissed. It's the fact that transgender people are being discriminated against.

You state,

And to top it all, because of the insane promotion of this story because it meets all the important doubleplusgoodthink criteria, even though it's actually crude propaganda, real people end up getting hurt as a result. But small people must get hurt because lies and propaganda about Putin and Russia is the only thing that matters these days. Screw the small people. 

It's the small people who don't recognize this for what it is. Who can read something and ignore what it says,

(F64) Gender identity disorders 

are the small minded.

The entire decree sucks. But the bullshit that by calling it out for what it is would be the reason it was used is both ridiculous and victim blaming.

Your post is abhorrent. If transgender people were not part of the target, then the category of Gender Identity Disorders would not be included.

[DetlefK]

2. F60-69: Disorders of adult personality and behavior (That fits to anything, including transgender.)

Are you really trying to tell me that it's the West's fault if Russia applies this paragraph of russian law to russian people the russian state considers subhumans?

[ND-Dem]

9. "That fits to anything". So why not include the 'anything' rather than saying the ban is

on trans people? So far, it's a ban on the 'anything' in that category.

[uhnope]

30. yes, to some some people eveything is the West's fault

especially to anti-democratic Putin sympathizers

[enlightenment]

3. The author needs to do a little more research

because his assertion is an untruth.

From the article:

F60-69: Disorders of adult personality and behavior

From the ICD-10 (where that category came from):

(F64) Gender identity disorders

(F64.0) Transsexualism
(F64.1) Dual-role transvestism
(F64.2) Gender identity disorder of childhood

See how easy it is to do a little research before sticking your foot in your mouth? Someone should tell Mr. Michelson.

[Major Nikon]

6. There's also a lot of other things in F60-69

(F60.1) Schizoid personality disorder

(F60.3) Emotionally unstable personality disorder

Along with some more benign disorders like:

(F65.2) Exhibitionism

(F65.3) Voyeurism

(F65.5) Sadomasochism

The author is not saying this new guidance couldn't be used to discriminate against the LGBT community. The author is saying the headlines that were reported are inaccurate. From the given directive, it would be just as accurate to say Putin is targeting panty sniffers.

[enlightenment]

21. Word parsing.

The author is suggesting that because it isn't spelled out, it isn't intended. That is pie in the sky nonsense, particularly when taken with the other Russian laws that actively discriminate against the LGBT community.

Putin has been remarkably clear on where he thinks Russia should stand on the issue - and he's not concerned about panty sniffers.

[Major Nikon]

22. You can say the same thing about the reverse

Numerous disorders are included in F60-69. So to parse out 3 and say that was the intent is just as speculative. Virtually every civilized country in the world lists personality disorders as a disqualifying factor for a driver's license. So while it's certainly possible the intent could have been to discriminate against some LGBT, why would they have gone about it by also including numerous other disorders, some of which most certainly should be disqualifying factors? It's not as if the Putin administration needs or wants to conceal their bigotry. Their whole intent so far has been to not conceal it.

[enlightenment]

25. No more speculative

than saying it wasn't the intent. I'll allow that Putin's government is probably perfectly happy to include other groups - but the bottom line is that his government hasn't been targeting passive-aggressives, over-eaters, or even pedophiles for special attention. They have been targeting the LGBT community.

You know that old saying; when you hear hoofbeats, think horses - not zebras. The horse in this equation is F64.

I understand what you're saying, but you, like the author, is giving a pass to the government on this one that they don't deserve.

[Major Nikon]

31. There's no question Putin's government is targeting the LGBT community

On this particular subject, not so much. As I've already pointed out, if that was their actual motive, they would have no interest in concealing their intentions. The whole point of Putin's anti-LGBT initiatives is to drum up popular support.

I'm certainly not giving Putin's government a pass. I think they are repugnant shit stains. It wouldn't bother me much if the people of Russia gave Putin the Mussolini treatment.

[marym625]

35. If transgender people were not targeted

Then the category of Gender Identity Disorders would not be listed.

[Kurska]

4. Oh poor russia

"A decree that actually had little to no impact on LGBT people is misrepresented as being anti-LGBT – and as a result, it becomes anti-LGBT."

We're making them oppress trans-people. It our fault you see that Russia issued an edict so broad is banned trans people from driving. If only we didn't comment on that, they wouldn't be forced to use the edict to ban trans people from driving.

[sibelian]

7. And then be SO VERY UPSET about the hurtful hurtful HURTFUL misunderstanding that they just HAVE to

screw with LGBT some more, cos, goddamit, it's so unfair.

This silly homosexuals. They think THEY'RE the oppressed people. It's so IRONIC.

[geek tragedy]

5. The story is true-the liars are Putin's sleazy apologists at DU.

As others have pointed out, trans people are labeled as having a disorder, so this does apply to then.

Fuck Vladimir Putin and his bigoted, fascist apologists.

[Major Nikon]

8. Putin didn't do that, the ICD-10 did that

The reason why the ICD-10 did that was so that doctors would have a diagnosis for those who seek gender reassignment surgery so that insurance plans will cover it.

[SidDithers]

12. Yup. The Putin boot-lickers are fucking pathetic...nt

Sid

[Behind the Aegis]

26. The excuses are sophmoric and pathetic.

The rationale is because they weren't specifically targeted, it is "propaganda" to say they are targeted by the law. It is linguistic gymnastics at its "best." When crap like this is passed or on the books in countries like ours, the same people pissed off by the Russian law are pissed about the law here and say so, as opposed to those hem-hawing about the Russian law, but have the nerve to claim they are allies to the LGBT community in other threads.

Little by little the Russian government, with the support of the people, are setting GBLT Russians up for something really bad.

[AZ Progressive]

13. Yes, because America has NEVER used propaganda on its own people....

America found every reason to hate Saddam, and we used 9/11 as an excuse to kick out Saddam, and look what happened. We've wasted hundreds of billions of dollars in Iraq and created a power vacuum and a terrorist nest.

Beliefs and self-propagandizing can have serious consequences.

[Bluenorthwest]

17. So like, Americans who call out American bullshit but defend Russian bullshit are just defending

bullshit with bullshit. People who call out all bullshit are opposed to bullshit. See how it works? Saying 'this is bullshit from Russia' does not mean 'American never makes bullshit'. It means this particular bullshit is Russian bullshit. The bullshit of the one does not answer for the bullshit of the other, save for in the eyes of those loyal to one brand of bullshit.

[stevenleser]

36. Trying to change the subject won't help. This is about Russia being homophobic.

Whatever X,Y,Z other country is doing is irrelevant.

[polly7]

10. K&R. nt.

[SidDithers]

11. How dare we say Russia is anti-LGBT!!!...

Sid

[polly7]

14. FFS

NOBODY has said the Russian gov't hasn't passed horrible anti-LGBT laws - however, the Russian gov't is not 'Russia' any more than NATO is 'Canada' for participating in the horrible deaths of so many innocents in Libya. Ramping up the propaganda though seems work for you as it does for the anti-'Russia' campaign (which, obviously, includes suffering for millions of people - including LGBT). Thinking is sometimes more effective than your rofl thing. I doubt anyone here finds any of it funny.

[Bluenorthwest]

16. So your argument is that Russia is not Russia? Seriously?

I note you do not offer any citation claiming the Russian people are not largely homophobic because of course they are. Orthodox Church, also bigoted.
So yeah. Canada, NATO. Russia is not Russia. So tired of excuse mongering straights.

[polly7]

18. Yeah, you tried this all before.

I'm not making excuses at all for Russia's gov'ts decisions.

I'm not stupid enough to assume millions of Russia's people are to blame for it, or that the sanctions and hatred being ramped up against a whole people will not affect economically most people in Russia - indluding LGBT, children and everyone else, just as they did, and were intended to do for Iraq.

Don't accuse me of shit you make up in your head, I've many gay people in my life and have defended inequality and bigotry against ALL people forever.

And NO, most Canadians did not want to bomb Libya.

Your generalizations and false accusations are tiring.

[Bluenorthwest]

15. What a load of bullshit this is. Fucking straight institutions constantly call LGBT people diseased

and disordered so perhaps if they feel hurt by 'confusion' it is because of the context of their constant inclusion of diagnostic language when speaking of LGBT identity. In short, fuck them.
The Pope Group pulls the same shit, he says terrible things and then they claim he did not mean it. It's bogus then, bogus now. Own the filth you hurl, folks. Because those you hurl it at do not forget for your convenience.

[Major Nikon]

19. There's a good reason why the ICD-10 includes those things in diagnostic language

If they aren't listed in the ICD-10 then there's no diagnosis to list for those seeking gender reassignment surgery. If there's no diagnosis, the procedures become elective and few insurance companies are going to cover them.

Certainly the unintended consequence of this is the intellectually challenged are going to point to this and use it as a tool for nefarious purposes.

[marym625]

20. baloney

It's a physical disorder and not a physiological one. And to include it in the list of reasons a person can't drive is nothing but propaganda against transgender people.

[Major Nikon]

23. I'm just speaking to the ICD-10, not how someone may be using it for nefarious purposes

There is a movement to remove those diagnoses from the personality disorder section, but it's not as simple as just moving it somewhere else and complete removal from the ICD-10 would be extremely harmful to those who are seeking insurance coverage of gender reassignment surgery or some who are requesting coverage for hormone therapy.

[enlightenment]

24. Few insurance companies

cover it now - and most still require extensive and persistent treatment from mental health professionals at every step. Multiple referrals; on-going therapy; more referrals - reminders at every step that there is something "wrong" with the person - assuming that at some point, the insurance company doesn't simply decide they don't qualify.

It isn't in the ICD-10 simply to facilitate insurance coverage. It is in the ICD-10 because it is considered a mental disorder. If is also considered a mental disorder in the DSM-V.

[abakan]

27. True or untrue I have wondered since I first read about this

How could such a thing be enforced? When someone is driving down the street how would a traffic cop know what is in the drivers underwear, unless they were shown. I have encountered few people who drive around without their pants.

[NCTraveler]

28. Putin bootlickers suck.

No matter how you try to parse words, Putin is ultra right wing anti gay scum. After reading your own link, parsing words is all this is. Extremely transparent.

[Zorra]

29. Video: Mother of God, Put Putin Away w/ English lyrics.

[Initech]

32. Are they taking cues from the American prison system?

As in how many people can we lock up for the stupidest reason possible? Step1: find a scapegoat.