HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » HuffPo blog: Time to End ...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Tue Apr 24, 2012, 05:03 PM

HuffPo blog: Time to End Marijuana Prohibition

I am not a marijuana smoker and never will be. Based on what I have seen, even casual use can be psychologically addicting. If consumed heavily, pot can sap ambition, destroy creative energy and ruin lives. Except for some very sick people, weed is something to avoid.

But just because an activity is foolish, that doesn't mean we should pass laws against it and spend billions of dollars locking up the offenders. That's especially true if prohibition creates a huge, violent black market for the thing being outlawed and generates costs out of proportion to any social good the ban produces. Such is the case with marijuana criminalization, and it's time to put an end to it.

A current ballot initiative would decriminalize marijuana in Michigan for adults at least 21 years old. While the proposal would have zero impact on the federal laws against Mary Jane, putting it on the ballot and passing it would be worth doing. The simple reason: Decades of using the law to fight marijuana use have been a colossal failure.

Legal or not, people will use marijuana. That's a fact. The real issue is not how we eliminate the pot business; we can't. All we can realistically do is decide who to put in charge of it. It makes no sense to keep the pot trade in the hands of violent, unscrupulous criminal gangs when it could run by law-abiding citizens, taxed and regulated.

More: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-melton/marijuana-prohibition_b_1449417.html?ref=detroit

62 replies, 4946 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 62 replies Author Time Post
Reply HuffPo blog: Time to End Marijuana Prohibition (Original post)
LuckyTheDog Apr 2012 OP
pipoman Apr 2012 #1
LuckyTheDog Apr 2012 #2
pipoman Apr 2012 #3
LuckyTheDog Apr 2012 #4
pipoman Apr 2012 #5
LuckyTheDog Apr 2012 #8
pipoman Apr 2012 #13
xiamiam Apr 2012 #17
pipoman Apr 2012 #41
RainDog May 2012 #58
prefunk Apr 2012 #19
sarcasmo Apr 2012 #6
LuckyTheDog Apr 2012 #7
pipoman Apr 2012 #14
LuckyTheDog Apr 2012 #9
Fumesucker Apr 2012 #10
LuckyTheDog Apr 2012 #24
pipoman Apr 2012 #12
xiamiam Apr 2012 #18
Upton Apr 2012 #22
musiclawyer Apr 2012 #34
LuckyTheDog Apr 2012 #39
pipoman Apr 2012 #40
RainDog May 2012 #60
LuckyTheDog May 2012 #61
RainDog May 2012 #62
Upton Apr 2012 #11
LuckyTheDog Apr 2012 #15
Fumesucker Apr 2012 #16
LuckyTheDog Apr 2012 #21
Fumesucker Apr 2012 #25
LuckyTheDog Apr 2012 #26
fascisthunter Apr 2012 #35
LuckyTheDog Apr 2012 #37
Luce Nox Apr 2012 #46
prefunk Apr 2012 #20
LuckyTheDog Apr 2012 #23
randome Apr 2012 #28
Comrade Grumpy Apr 2012 #32
LuckyTheDog Apr 2012 #44
randome Apr 2012 #54
prefunk Apr 2012 #36
LuckyTheDog Apr 2012 #47
Upton Apr 2012 #52
LuckyTheDog Apr 2012 #56
DLine Apr 2012 #43
BigDemVoter Apr 2012 #27
randome Apr 2012 #29
BigDemVoter Apr 2012 #30
randome Apr 2012 #31
BigDemVoter Apr 2012 #33
LuckyTheDog Apr 2012 #38
BigDemVoter Apr 2012 #42
LuckyTheDog Apr 2012 #45
BigDemVoter Apr 2012 #48
LuckyTheDog Apr 2012 #50
Upton Apr 2012 #49
LuckyTheDog Apr 2012 #51
Upton Apr 2012 #53
BigDemVoter Apr 2012 #55
Warren DeMontague May 2012 #57
SomethingFishy May 2012 #59

Response to LuckyTheDog (Original post)

Tue Apr 24, 2012, 05:10 PM

1. This position

along with transfer of funds being currently used for "the war on drugs" to mental health and addiction services for anyone who needs these services, would create a legacy for Obama like none other. Alas, the Obama administration seems to quite appreciate the prospect of continuing this colossal failure in policy..

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pipoman (Reply #1)

Tue Apr 24, 2012, 07:45 PM

2. Imagine it: The first black president champions marijuana legalization

The far right would be unable to contain its glee.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Reply #2)

Tue Apr 24, 2012, 09:43 PM

3. The result would be almost immediate

reduction in crime, stabilization in Mexico, and reductions in the town psycho shooting up the hardware store. Presidential legacies are born many years after a President's term. It is radical, unpopular single issues which are shown to be successful many years down the road which make a positive Presidential legacy. Much of the population agree that the WOD is a complete failure. Now the Mexican government is starting to criticize more vocally.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pipoman (Reply #3)

Tue Apr 24, 2012, 10:00 PM

4. But the instant Obama starts leading the charge...

... the sound of racist dog whistles, built on stereotypes about black men, will be heard from coast to coast.

If we want to end marijuana prohibition, then WE need to lead the charge. We cannot expect Obama to go to the wall for this. If he did that without us behind him pushing, then nothing would get done.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Reply #4)

Tue Apr 24, 2012, 10:15 PM

5. Every movement requires a leader..

Presidents are supposed to be innovative leaders.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pipoman (Reply #5)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 06:45 AM

8. No president has really been an effective agent for change

They react to effective social movements.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Reply #8)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 09:25 AM

13. I disagree

the Presidents who are remembered by history as the best have indeed sold a policy change to the electorate and reaped the reward of being among the best. Further, there is a strong social movement in search of a party to lead them. As it is, one party will eventually grasp this simple concept of eliminating this violence ridden prohibition, and that party/leader will be the winner.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Reply #4)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 11:28 AM

17. he just has to get out of the way of indidual states choices

which he said he would do but which he has decided to not do..no one has asked him to lead the charge..its a waste of time and money when real criminals like the ones who destroyed our economy should be investigated

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to xiamiam (Reply #17)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 07:41 PM

41. What do most of the infamous mass shooters

have in common? Many want to say a gun. I believe the real connection is unavailability of mental health services.

What is causing the violence in Mexico and southern US? Organized crime centered around the illegal trade in a nominally harmful, high demand intoxicant. So surprised people who have used the old idea of not forgetting history or we are doomed to repeat it can't see the forest for the trees. Now I have to believe that either these people are dumb, or they are protecting a dumb policy for selfish reasons of some sort..

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Reply #2)

Wed May 2, 2012, 09:17 PM

58. He doesn't have to champion it

The reality is that the majority of the American people ALREADY, by a HUGE MAJORITY support decriminalization of medical marijuana and a bare or near majority support full legalization, according to polls.

We already have states in the most populous areas of the nation with local and state legislation to regulate the medical marijuana industry. So, not only do we have polls from across the nation that indicate EVERY REGION OF THE U.S. supports legalization of medical marijuana, we also have legislation - actual balls to the wall legal sanction - in 16 states, with another 16 states with pending legislation.

How much more of a mandate do you need in order to address an issue?

The reality is that ANYTHING Obama does is going to be attacked. So, why not do something that benefits the Democratic majority in this nation? The Democratic majority OVERWHELMINGLY supports legalization.

We have historical precedent to show that, in a horrid economic climate, legalizing an industry that had been forbidden (alcohol), created HUGE numbers of jobs and led to a decrease in crime.

But see, Obama doesn't have to make some big statement or take a position. All he has to do is tell Holder to instruct the DEA to move marijuana from Schedule I to, oh, say Schedule 4 in the Controlled Substances Act. This is possible.

Holder can reference the extensive research done in the past and note that Francis Young, Administrative Law Judge for the DEA, had already ruled that marijuana is less harmful than aspirin and should be decriminalized. Removing marijuana from Schedule I would decriminalize it.

From Young: Marijuana, in its natural form, is one of the safest therapeutically active substances known to man. By any measure of rational analysis marijuana can be safely used within a supervised routine of medical care."

http://www.ccguide.org/young88.php

That puts it with xanax and valium (both of which have more harmful potential side effects.) It doesn't legalize marijuana to be sold on the street or in a liquor store, but that makes it possible for doctors to prescribe marijuana - it's a step toward doing away with the current bad laws. It also makes it possible for dispensaries to supply marijuana to patients with prescriptions from doctors.

Americans are tired of being held hostage by IRRATIONAL laws. This includes Democrats, Republicans and Independents.

Look at these polls - From ABC, CBS, Gallup, Harris, Zogby, Pew - ALL OF THEM INDICATE AMERICANS SUPPORT LEGAL MEDICAL MARIJUANA.

http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/view.additional-resource.php?resourceID=000151

So, how effective can a Republican attack be when the majority of Americans support something they don't?


WHY be hostage to special interests under the guise of Republicans? The approach the Democrats are taking at this time alienates key components of their voting base. It doesn't add them one vote b/c, even among Republicans. Some of them also support legalization and those who don't are not going to vote for him anyway.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pipoman (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 11:32 AM

19. Maybe after the election he will make good on that promise.

Its been disheartening to see that the DOJ continues to prosecute MMJ dispensaries contrary to what he said during his campaign, but maybe after the election he can make those changes knowing he will not have to worry about reelection.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Original post)

Tue Apr 24, 2012, 10:35 PM

6. Would a 2nd term President push this issue?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sarcasmo (Reply #6)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 06:43 AM

7. Maybe... if we pushed (nt)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Reply #7)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 09:29 AM

14. I hoped, but now don't believe anything will change the coarse for this president

the right has not criticized Obama for not cracking down on legal dispensaries in states which have adopted various MJ laws, that is being executed as a matter of policy by this President. The concept of decriminalization of pot is very progressive, democratic, and liberal.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Original post)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 06:45 AM

9. I'd like to come clean

I am the author of this blog post.

And, I have to say, the comments on this crack me up. The folks attacking me are not the people who want to keep pot illegal. People want to attack be because I don't buy into the dogma that being a pothead is a good thing. It's not enough for me to agree with them on a public policy issue. They become nasty because I don't agree with them for the right reasons.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Reply #9)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 07:29 AM

10. Are you an alky?

By which I mean do you ever consume alcoholic beverages?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fumesucker (Reply #10)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 12:12 PM

24. Wait...

So you are saying that, if I ever consume alcohol, I am a hypocrite if I don't also think people should make marijuana use a regular part of their lives? How do you come to that conclusion?

I don't think people should get drunk ever day, either. And guess what, I don't. In fact, I rarely drink at all. When I do, it's in moderation.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Reply #9)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 08:03 AM

12. Yeah, I'm not a smoker either

but some of your commentary is as old as Reefer Madness. I know some pretty creative and productive people who have used pot for years...decades..These are not universally accepted perceptions, and are stereotypes people have spent a very long time trying to overcome.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pipoman (Reply #12)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 11:30 AM

18. i have to agree re the blog..some pretty dated misconceptions..nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Reply #9)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 12:07 PM

22. Yeah sure..

except many of the comments at HuffPo are saying pretty much the same thing. Did you ever think you may be the one who doesn't know what they're talking about...recycling government anti pot propaganda just doesn't cut it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Reply #9)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 12:55 PM

34. The article says the activity of smoking cannabis is "foolish"!

I vapor almost every day. Only in my 20's going to grad school and establishing a foothold in my career did I not enjoy cannabis regularly. Cannabis makes me ( not all ) sleepy. Great, deep sleep. And in those days I had no time to be well rested. Well now I am. And I don't think taking a a few hits of vapor most nights is foolish. My sleep is better, my sex is better, the quality of my life is richer. So if I'm being foolish, then the activity of drinking a nice glass of pinot noire or cabernet most nights must be "foolish" too. Eh. Millions do that too.

Dude. Face meet mirror!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to musiclawyer (Reply #34)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 03:37 PM

39. I stand by that

As I said to another poster...

Apparently, it is not enough for me to favor legalization of marijuana.

I also have to pretend that 1) smoking pot has no ill effects whatsoever 2) alcohol is used only in excess; and 3) that a person is a hypocrite is he/she has ever had a beer and does not also advocate use of marijuana with no reservations whatsoever.

Sorry, never got that memo.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Reply #39)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 07:26 PM

40. I haven't seen

anyone say there are no ill effects whatsoever, only that the antiquated, reefer madness perceptions of the OP are inaccurate.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Reply #9)

Wed May 2, 2012, 09:55 PM

60. You wrote this at HuffPo?

I think the reason that people are "attacking" you is because you made several assumptions and incorrect statements.

I am not a marijuana smoker and never will be. Based on what I have seen, even casual use can be psychologically addicting. If consumed heavily, pot can sap ambition, destroy creative energy and ruin lives. Except for some very sick people, weed is something to avoid.


You cannot make a blanket statement about cannabis "based upon what you have seen." You see stereotypes and assume those represent people who consume cannabis.

However, here are some other, actual consumers of cannabis: Queen Victoria (she used it suspended in alcohol for menstrual pain), Richard Branson, George Soros, Richard Feynman, Carl Sagan, Steven Jobs, Francis Crick, Montel Williams, The Beatles (Paul McCartney until just a few years ago), Allen Ginsburg, Bob Dylan, Bill Murray, Gene Krupa, Stephen King, and numerous professional athletes functioning at some of the highest levels of physical performance...

So, what sort of blanket statement about cannabis would you make knowing that these highly successful people not only tried it but used it more than once, and, in most cases, used it over the course of many years? Many of them also engaged in heavy use while performing their jobs, most of which involved enormous amounts of creative energy.

Your use of the word, "pothead" here is another example of you framing this issue based upon your own bias, not any actual evidence. Your preface to this issue looks ignorant.

I'm not attacking you - I welcome people's support to overturn these old, racist laws. But I do think you should marshal some facts to support your position and not rely on negative propaganda and stereotypes - even if they're the stereotypes that made Tommy Chong a millionaire businessman (yes, that sapped ambition and lack of creativity again.)

In your zeal to support your stereotypes, you come off as one - another American who doesn't bother to do his research before stating an opinion.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RainDog (Reply #60)

Wed May 2, 2012, 11:09 PM

61. Blanket statement?

I think it is alright to say what my experience has been.That's especially true when I come out and say that. It's doubly true when I never said that every use of pot in every instance ruins a person's life. I know, however, what I have seen. That's why I never made any "blanket statements," but used qualified statements ("can be" instead of "always is.")

And, sorry, but the medical evidence backs me up on this. Smoking pot is not thought of by medical people as a healthy habit (and here, I am comparing it with not using pot. I am not comparing it to binge drinking, as some of the comments on this thread weirdly seem to assume). All things being equal, for most people, I think it's better to not smoke pot -- assuming the void is not filled with some even more dangerous alternative, such as alcohol (used in excess) or prescription pills. And that's not just my opinion. You will find loads of doctors on my side.

You can point to Steven Jobs and assert that his pot smoking led to his success. But there is no evidence for that. It's more likely that he succeeded for other reasons and keeping his pot smoking moderate meant that the habit did not hold him back. Good for him. But for every Steve Jobs or Miles Davis, there are others who don't handle it quite so well. I have met a lot of those people.

Look, there are very successful people who smoke cigarettes as well. But that does not mean tobacco is healthy or that it is somehow the cause of the success of those people. It just shows that some people are able to smoke and not let it interfere with the rest of their lives. Others, however, get heart disease and/or lung cancer.

Now, in a world in which alcohol and tobacco ARE legal, it makes no sense that marijuana, which is far less dangerous than those substances, is banned. It sure as heck makes no sense to me to facilitate the existence of a huge, unregulated black market. And, I have known people in pain who have gotten relief from medical use of pot. So, I am all for legalizing weed.

Just don't try to tell me it's healthy or that people should be encouraged to use it. And don't tell me that it is out of bounds to make decisions about what to do with my body based on direct experience with the world.

But, apparently, none of this is acceptable to the pro-weed culture. The only acceptable position, apparently, is to assert that marijuana is the equivalent of a unicorn that poops rainbows.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Reply #61)

Thu May 3, 2012, 12:08 AM

62. I never said anything about causation - you are making that claim.

I ALSO didn't say... "b/c x person smoked, that person was creative or successful." Just as I did not say, "b/c x person smoked, that person was not successful" - because there is NO EVIDENCE for such claims.

I said your stereotypes framed this issue in a particular way and they were not true b/c what IS true is that there are people who are successful and not successful, creative and uncreative, and among these will be people who have used or not used marijuana. I am also NOT, unlike your assumption, advocating that anyone use marijuana. I am saying that marijuana use does not automatically mean any of the things you assigned to use. So, if use does not indicate those stereotypes, why perpetuate them?

The reason I say that is because this issue has been framed this way by conservatives FOR DECADES and such framing creates a bias. I am asking you to remove the bias from your argument - but you have to recognize it before you can do that.

Instead, you are assigning words or ideas to me that I did not say.

What I did say was that your framing of this issue was done by relying on stereotypes. THAT'S ALL.

I didn't say you should advocate the use of marijuana or that you cannot make your own decisions or that it's healthy (tho it most definitely is in some cases), or the specious and obnoxious claim that cannabis is the equivalent of a rainbow pooping unicorn.

So, to get down to it - cannabis, just like other things - chocolate cake, for instance, does not indicate any set of behaviors or beliefs or any outcome because of its use.

THAT'S ALL.

When you read what I wrote, did you actually read it as though I said the things you said? Because, if you did, that's also a bias. Or were you just making those things up - in which case, that's dishonest.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Original post)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 07:39 AM

11. You've never smoked pot..

but you know for a fact "pot can sap ambition, destroy creative energy and ruin lives"....which as a longtime pot user, I can tell you is a bunch of crap. The only thing ruining lives is the drug war..not the product itself.

Outside of the legal stuff, you sound like the DEA. I'm going to undo my rec..

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Upton (Reply #11)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 11:16 AM

15. I have seen it happen

I have seen a lot of people hurt by using too much pot. For every Miles Davis, there are probably hundreds of people for whom the effects are harmful.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Reply #15)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 11:22 AM

16. Are you an alky?

By which I mean do you ever consume alcoholic beverages?

Because I've seen a lot of people hurt by using too much alcohol. For every Jackson Pollock there are probably hundreds of people for whom the effect is harmful..

Oh.. Wait.. Pollock died at 44 in a drunk driving accident..

Never mind..

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fumesucker (Reply #16)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 12:06 PM

21. And? So?

Is it not enough to be for legalization?

How far do I have to go to be "acceptable" to those in the pot culture? Do I also have to accept that regular marijuana use is a good thing? Do I also have to use the drug myself?

I don't drink much, either -- not that that's actually relevant. I don't see how, if I admit to drinking a beer or two every few months, I also have to be an advocate for heavy, daily marijuana use.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Reply #21)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 12:14 PM

25. Perspectives differ..

You are indulging in stereotyping, I was just showing you the mirror image of your stereotype, a different perspective if you will.




Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fumesucker (Reply #25)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 12:17 PM

26. Nope.

I am arguing based on my own experience in the real world -- and the MANY sources I link to in the blog post.

Sorry if that isn't ideologically pure enough for you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Reply #26)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 01:02 PM

35. it has nothing to do with ideology... it's your opinion

based on what you alone say you have seen first-hand. There are plenty of folks who smoke pot and are verrry successful. Not everyone who smokes marijuana is a lazy, unambitious pothead.... that's a stereotype.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to fascisthunter (Reply #35)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 03:23 PM

37. Ummmmm.... It's a column

By definition... and OPINION piece.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Reply #37)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 09:45 PM

46. While I do agree with you

 

That's neither here nor there really. I am one of the people you speak of: although I used to be a regular smoker years ago, these days it shuts me down socially and generally interferes with work, life etc so I avoid it. However, legalizing does not automatically mean everyone will go out and get baked 24/7

In any case, it will never happen, there is way too much money being made on it in its current legal status and chances are the major stakeholders are actively lobbying against decriminalization.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Reply #15)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 11:34 AM

20. Can you back up that assertion with any factual evidence other than "you've seen it?"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to prefunk (Reply #20)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 12:07 PM

23. Why is it unacceptable to form opinions based on actual experience? (nt)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Reply #23)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 12:33 PM

28. Because if you're not one thousand percent in line with the others on this issue...

...then you're fucked.

It's crazy, isn't it?

I seriously doubt that marijuana will ever be legalized. The best that anyone should strive for is to decriminalize it. Yet people continue to bang their heads against the wall on this issue.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to randome (Reply #28)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 12:42 PM

32. Randome doubts it, so everyone should give up.

Pardon us for having our own ideas.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to randome (Reply #28)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 09:31 PM

44. The whole 'if you don't like pot, then you MUST then be defending alcohol abuse' argument...

... is tiresome. I never defended alcohol abuse in my column. I never said pot was more harmful than drinking gallons of beer or vodka. I dd not make any kind of comparison to alcohol. But that is where this argument always goes.

What bugs me is that even though I say pot SHOULD BE LEGAL, I get attacked for saying I don't think it's healthy. The dangers of weed are not so great that prohibition makes sense -- and I state that categorically. But, there are real risks associated with using it that should not be ignored. There is a lot of research to back me up on this.

I also have known several people who were so consumed by the habit that it caused them a lot of problems. One good example: A guy who nearly lost his family because he "needed" to sit in the garage in smoke weed every night -- for hours -- more than he needed to talk to his wife and kids. He wanted to give it up, but for years, he couldn't. Only an ultimatum from his wife ("get help or I walk out and take the kids") woke him up enough to get into treatment.

Am I supposed to ignore all that?

This thread could have become a frank discussion of the risks of marijuana abuse and the potential benefits some people get from using it moderately or medicinally. But nope, that's not where this went. People reached for a knee-jerk redirection toward a discussion of alcohol abuse (which I NEVER defended) and a lot of personal attacks.

If this is how they treat me, how do these people talk to folks who actually disagree with them on legalization?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Reply #44)

Thu Apr 26, 2012, 10:23 AM

54. And that's precisely why I see nothing happening on the issue.

The best friend pot advocates have is decriminalization and nothing more. Because eventually that would likely lead to legalization.

But no, it's either 'all the way or nothing'. And that's part of the reason why it's been 'nothing' for so long.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Reply #23)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 01:29 PM

36. Because anecdotal evidence is typically skewed and biased toward the individuals experience and is

not an indicator of reality (usually).

May I recommend reading this Wiki article on Anecdotal evidence?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to prefunk (Reply #36)

Thu Apr 26, 2012, 09:46 AM

47. Submitted without comment

&ob=av2e

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Reply #47)

Thu Apr 26, 2012, 10:14 AM

52. Submitted without comment


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Upton (Reply #52)

Thu Apr 26, 2012, 10:39 AM

56. I was just trying to inject levity

But, I don't have any problem with pot legalization or the use of hemp.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Reply #15)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 08:43 PM

43. No you haven't....

You have seen people who would have been hurt ANYWAY. Pot just happened to be in their life (probably among other substances) and you choose to scapegoat it for why their life was fucked up. Pot is not addictive. There is no withdrawal when a heavy cannabis user stops using. As for "sap ambition, destroy creative energy, and ruin lives". BS on all 3. In my personal experience the very opposite of what you have said is true. I smoke and cook with cannabis semi regularly. Im sure I know a lot more "stoners" than you and I have taken the time to educate myself about this plant. Everyone I know that fits your description didn't need pot to fuck up their life. I realize it's just a blog and your opinion. But why post such an opinion about the effects of something you are clearly not familiar with?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Original post)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 12:24 PM

27. People who smoke pot (or eat it)

don't beat their wives, get in fights, die from drinking-related liver failure & "wet brain", and pot heads don't die from DT's.

This prohibition is idiotic BECAUSE marijuana has scientifically PROVEN medical benefits, and marijuana causes NO physical addiction. Ok, some people may develop "amotivational syndrome", but pot is STILL relatively benign.

On another note, I am changing jobs and will be required to undergo a pre-employment drug test. While I am not an active marijuana user, I resent it. I'm sure there are LOTS of people taking new jobs who are big DRUNKS who will probably miss plenty of work related to uncontrolled drinking, and they won't be turned away, whereas a light pot smoker would.

CRAZY!

One more thing--the Obama Administration needs to let the fuck up on marijuana dispensaries in California

A few weeks ago, there was a mass shooting at an Oakland University. The SAME day, what was the DOJ doing? Arresting some poor man in his WHEELCHAIR simply because his organization provided classes on cultivating and growing WEED.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BigDemVoter (Reply #27)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 12:34 PM

29. I believe there were pot plants in the class, were there not?

That's against the law. I'm not saying it's a rational law but there it is.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to randome (Reply #29)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 12:37 PM

30. California state law allows it. . .

And Obama said he would "respect state law."

He hasn't.

I AM flaming Obama on this, but OF COURSE I'll vote for him. I would NEVER vote for a Repuke!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BigDemVoter (Reply #30)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 12:40 PM

31. Well, I'm at work and filters are active so I can do my own searching on this topic.

But does state law allow the presence of actual pot in a classroom? I'm not saying I disbelieve you but I didn't think that was allowed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to randome (Reply #31)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 12:42 PM

33. You may be right on this. . .

I'm yapping without looking at the details!

Nevertheless, doesn't the DOJ have better things to do with its time, money & resources?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BigDemVoter (Reply #27)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 03:34 PM

38. Okee-dokee then

Apparently, it is not enough for me to favor legalization of marijuana.

I also have to pretend that 1) smoking pot has no ill effects whatsoever 2) alcohol is used only in excess; and 3) that a person is a hypocrite is he/she has ever had a beer and does not also advocate use of marijuana with no reservations whatsoever.

Sorry, never got that memo.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Reply #38)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 08:02 PM

42. Reservations?

No problem. . . I totally understand. Let's just have some perspective (and fairness) in regards to pot smoking. I guess I'm saying that the "potential" for harm from alcohol far outweighs the potential for harm from pot. It's simple.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BigDemVoter (Reply #42)

Wed Apr 25, 2012, 09:35 PM

45. The whole comparison to alcohol thing...

... was not started by me. And it's nothing more than a misdirection.

Believe it or not, one actually can believe the research findings showing the riskiness of regular pot use without also advocating alcohol abuse.

Jumping of a two-story roof is a lot less dangerous than jumping off a 10-story roof. That does not mean jumping off a two-story roof is a good idea.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Reply #45)

Thu Apr 26, 2012, 09:53 AM

48. I guess I'm just talking

about basic fairness and consistency. Alcohol is legal so why not pot? It's certainly less harmful.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BigDemVoter (Reply #48)

Thu Apr 26, 2012, 10:09 AM

50. Ummm.... did you READ what I wrote?

I am FOR legalizing pot. Not a fan of the idea of making pot a part of one's lifestyle. But people should have that choice.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Reply #45)

Thu Apr 26, 2012, 10:04 AM

49. Believe the research findings?

You mean like the propaganda you linked to from the NIDA? Well, that's a nice unbiased source..

Why don't you do yourself and us a favor and stick to topics you actually know something about?

I mean, what are you doing...looking for a job as Obama's next drug czar?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Upton (Reply #49)

Thu Apr 26, 2012, 10:12 AM

51. Sorry, but your position is politically idiotic

I SUPPORT legalization. On that we are on the same side. To vilify me because I don't also think weed abuse is the equivalent of owning a unicorn that poops rainbows -- well, that's just ridiculous. You don't get things done by pushing away people who are on your side.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Reply #51)

Thu Apr 26, 2012, 10:19 AM

53. So you support legalization..

that's nice..though it sounds like you've been dragged kicking and screaming to that conclusion. I would question what took you so long, except it's clear you've been wallowing in anti drug government propaganda. That's what I object to.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Reply #51)

Thu Apr 26, 2012, 10:32 AM

55. Ah ok

So I have no problem with that-- one can think/feel whatever one wants about marijuana, but legalization is really the only logical conclusion one can make. The drug war does NOT work, especially regarding pot, and people who smoke it should be able to do so at their own risk (NOT that I personally find it risky)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Original post)

Wed May 2, 2012, 08:50 PM

57. Kick.

This is one of the most important issues for justice and sanity gong forward, deserves a lot more attention.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Original post)

Wed May 2, 2012, 09:33 PM

59. Well as a pot smoker

I guess we thank you for your support?

BTW "based on what I have seen, and since I am a marijuana smoker and you are not, I would have to say you don't know too much about smoking pot. And should probably keep the "Reefer Madness" type comments to yourself. I'll give you one quick lesson. There are many strains of weed. Each having a different effect on the user. So your generalizations are amusing at best. Also study after study has shown that marijuana actually stimulates the creative areas of the brain. Nice try though.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread