General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAnybody know exactly when did it all get so ugly - the hatred for government and public employees?
I recall when going to work for the government was considered a good thing to do - an honorable thing, in fact. The pay was modest and the benefits were comparable to the private sector. Teachers were respected - highly respected. As a child, I used to live next door to two single brothers who were postal employees and they were considered to be very upstanding members of the community.
Today, while listening to a local financial program on the radio, I heard the host all of a sudden take a sharp right turn in his rhetoric and begin lambasting of all people - librarians, then teachers, active and retired, for being over paid and "greedily sopping up huge dough in their salaries and retirement" while the state "goes bankrupt."
When did it all turn around and the actual hatred for librarians, teachers, even for police and firemen (due to THEIR "fatcat" benefits) begin?
Was it with Reagan ("the government is not your friend" attitude) in the '80's? The Bush's? I'm trying to pin it down - at least to the era.
My own opinion is that maybe if the state wasn't so busy giving big tax breaks to businesses there would now be adequate money in the state coffers, that in addition to the legislature contributing the proper amount, by law, to fund the retirement programs which it did not do.
Thanks
sinkingfeeling
(51,438 posts)others. Therefore, the Tea Baggers ideology. Hate the 'public' anything, glorify the 'private' and starve the governments by demanding low, low taxes.
Response to Peregrine Took (Original post)
devilgrrl This message was self-deleted by its author.
coalition_unwilling
(14,180 posts)without calling a general strike to shut the country down.
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)Meany became enamoured of his powerful position and relished being a 'Wahington Insider' instead of representing Labor.
He surrounded himself with like-minded drones, Kirkland and Donohue were both his acolytes; both were worthless to Labor.
Too busy sucking up to politicians of both sides instead of breaking balls.
There is a huge rift in Labor right now, my Union left the AFL-CIO over their losing tactics, and disdain for service unions.
Trumka DOES NOT represent the most Progressive factions in Labor.
jaysunb
(11,856 posts)Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)kctim
(3,575 posts)got high enough to affect the desire for people to pay for them.
And questioning or disagreeing what your tax dollars are used for is not hatred.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)you're assertion is made up.
arbusto_baboso
(7,162 posts)In fact, I have yet to see ONE of his posts that actually support Democratic Party principles.
And yet, somehow, he's flown beneath the radar well enough to not be tombstoned.
Go figure.
Response to arbusto_baboso (Reply #18)
devilgrrl This message was self-deleted by its author.
Solomon
(12,310 posts)cause for Zimmerman's arrest."
kctim
(3,575 posts)Of course, dealing only with facts wouldn't be nowhere as much fun as watching people running from the facts.
Response to kctim (Reply #36)
devilgrrl This message was self-deleted by its author.
kctim
(3,575 posts)Response to kctim (Reply #51)
devilgrrl This message was self-deleted by its author.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)SammyWinstonJack
(44,129 posts)2ndAmForComputers
(3,527 posts)No, wait, it tells three.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)kctim
(3,575 posts)I actually do support Democratic Party principles, I just don't always agree with liberal/progressive interpretations of them.
Response to kctim (Reply #33)
devilgrrl This message was self-deleted by its author.
kctim
(3,575 posts)I have stated many times that, just like the majority of Dems, I am a moderate Democrat. And, other than a few extreme positions like on abortion and marriage, I am pretty much like most other Dems in the "fly-over" states liberals/progressives hate so much.
UnrepentantLiberal
(11,700 posts)Are you against two people who love each other having the same rights you do? You say "extreme" so I take that to mean you are very much against both of those issues.
kctim
(3,575 posts)I am pro-abortion in all cases and pro marry whoever the hell you want to.
obamanut2012
(26,047 posts)kctim
(3,575 posts)between ANY two consenting adults.
arbusto_baboso
(7,162 posts)other than REPUBLICAN ones?
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)2ndAmForComputers
(3,527 posts)The Clintons killed Vince Foster?
Obama was born in Kenya?
John Kerry was a coward in Vietnam?
I await with bated breath.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)the ones in your mind.
hack89
(39,171 posts)over benefits for state and municipal workers. We can't afford them anymore.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)also, what is your state tax rate?
and what percentage of your state and local budget is employee compensation and pension benefits (and does this total include educators and retired educators)?
because i'm not sure if you didn't just latch onto Republican talking points about where your tax money goes.
kctim
(3,575 posts)back in the time the OP mentions.
[link:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29861648/ns/politics-capitol_hill/t/how-tax-burden-has-changed/|
And if your city and state taxes are also lower than what they paid, you are one lucky person.
Response to kctim (Reply #28)
devilgrrl This message was self-deleted by its author.
arbusto_baboso
(7,162 posts)Could it be because the federal government, under REPUBLICAN Presidents, has mandated more and more programs, but shoved the costs off on the states?
I'm pretty sure that's why.
Also, I would say that if your tax burden is greater, it is NOT on the federal end of things.
Now, if you don't have anything more than red herrings to contribute, you might want to stop embarassing yourself...
kctim
(3,575 posts)"Anybody know exactly when did it all get so ugly - the hatred for government and public employees?"
It doesn't ask who is at fault, it asks when. It's all the Republicans fault does not answer the question. When taxes passed the amount that people were willing to sacrifice, does.
Your individual income taxes are higher than they were back then and your social security are double what they were back then.
Back then, payroll taxes "accounted for 16 cents of every dollar of federal tax revenues. Last year they accounted for about 35 cents of every revenue dollar."
Now, do you deny there is a correlation between higher taxes and negative attitudes people have about paying them?
arbusto_baboso
(7,162 posts)The resentment people have is for paying taxes and getting little or nothing in return for them. Except of course, for the wealthiest among us, who, ironically, are the biggest fucking whiny wimps when it comes to taxes.
Now, if you're going to go off on some sort of rant about taxation being inherently bad, you are in the WRONG place, period.
Oh, and my individual federal income taxes are LOWER. Produce some data to prove me wrong. I fucking DARE you.
kctim
(3,575 posts)"The resentment people have is for paying taxes and getting little or nothing in return for them"
Whether it's resentment for getting nothing in return or resentment for what they are used for, the link between higher taxes and the peoples resentment about them is still there.
I mention that taxes cause peoples attitudes towards government to change and you automatically assume I believe taxation is inherently bad? Stereotype much?
I can't prove you specifically pay more in federal income taxes, for all I know you could have been a millionaire and are now a pauper. There is no reason to DARE me as if you are some kind of tough guy, all you have to do is ask.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29861648/ns/politics-capitol_hill/t/how-tax-burden-has-changed/
arbusto_baboso
(7,162 posts)If you resent higher taxes just on principle, you're likely to be right-wing.
If you just want more bang for your tax buck, you will be more left-wing.
And the difference lies in how to approach the tax rates and what to do about them.
And that article doesn't address the point I put to you.
FEDERAL INCOME tax rates are LOWER now than in 1960. The percentage of the fed budget being from individual income taxes has NOTHING to do with price of tea in China.
And as far as "tough guy" shit, then change your sig-line from 1%, you outlaw badass, you.
Pffft.
kctim
(3,575 posts)What does being left-wing or right-wing have to do with what the OP asked?
"Anybody know exactly when did it all get so ugly - the hatred for government and public employees?"
It doesn't matter how we approach taxes or where you think the difference lies, people have only recently started with this disrespect towards government employees that the OP was talking about. More of our paycheck goes to the government today than it did when the OP recalls "going to work for the government was considered a good thing to do - an honorable thing."
If you want to pretend everybody pays less in taxes than they used because rates are lower, go ahead. The simple fact is that more taxes are taken out of your paycheck now than would have been then.
Change my sig? Why, I'm not the one so insecure that I have to act tough on the internet.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)Go ahead and get this deleted; I'm sure it won't be difficult. But in addition to being factually wrong, you're talking just like a teabagger would talk, at least as far as taxes go. You're carrying water for people who not only foster, but count on both your ignorance and your hatred.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)as your sigline says.
because if you were, your highest tax bracket is lower now than then.
and your dividends are taxed lower.
and your capital gains tax is lower.
or were you just making stuff up when you said you were in the 1%.
Response to CreekDog (Reply #45)
devilgrrl This message was self-deleted by its author.
kctim
(3,575 posts)of the current 99% vs 1% meme.
Think motorcycles.
Response to kctim (Reply #50)
devilgrrl This message was self-deleted by its author.
kctim
(3,575 posts)We all pay for our roads, why would I claim differently or not support that?
Stereotypes really are a waste of your time.
Response to kctim (Reply #66)
devilgrrl This message was self-deleted by its author.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)Makes about as much sense ad the usual.
The Magistrate
(95,243 posts)Back in the 'Wild One' days, the American Motorcycle Association used to say that only about one percent of motorcyclists were ruffians of that sort, and the ruffians picked it up as a badge of honor; patches reading 1% became a frequent ornament on gang 'colors'.
kctim
(3,575 posts)nothing more, nothing less.
The Magistrate
(95,243 posts)And a pretty up-scale one at that.
Response to The Magistrate (Reply #73)
devilgrrl This message was self-deleted by its author.
The Magistrate
(95,243 posts)People like this bring a lot of profit to some specialized entrepreneurs: 'faux bikery' takes some long bread....
Response to The Magistrate (Reply #76)
devilgrrl This message was self-deleted by its author.
REP
(21,691 posts)I see a lot of middle management types on their Hardly Ablesomes in jeans, t-shirts and tennis shoes.
The Magistrate
(95,243 posts)Your moniker always joggles me a little, recalling to my mind a French pioneer aeroplane designer, Robert Esnault-Pelterie, whose firm is generally known by his initials. Here is a picture of one of his designs, circa 1910, on display at Paris:
REP
(21,691 posts)REP are the initials of my hyphenated name, and how I've been identifying myself since my full name was too long to slug type with. Plus I'm a huge Shaw fangirl
kctim
(3,575 posts)I am just a regular guy and I gladly pay taxes as I am required.
What I did say though is that perhaps peoples negative attitudes towards government employees can be attributed to the fact that we now pay more taxes than they did when the attitude was more favorable towards them.
We can either debate why or why not that could be, or you can keep with the childish opinions you have no clue about in hopes of avoiding what was actually said.
The Magistrate
(95,243 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)GoneOffShore
(17,337 posts)Last edited Thu Apr 26, 2012, 04:32 PM - Edit history (1)
alarimer
(16,245 posts)And that is the problem in a nutshell.
Rich fucking assholes have gotten away with stealing this country blind and then making us turn on each other.
kctim
(3,575 posts)In fact, your statement actually agrees with mine in that we do pay more and that could be the reason for the current resentment towards government employees that the OP is talking about.
If taxing them more would lessen that resentment, then I am all for it.
Stating the obvious sentiment of the people doesn't mean I disagree with you on what caused that sentiment or how to change it. In fact, AA had a brief moment of valid logic with the "not getting what they are paying for" statement.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Response to kctim (Reply #4)
devilgrrl This message was self-deleted by its author.
SammyWinstonJack
(44,129 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)and set out to grab them for private Corporations. And they've been working on it for decades and mostly succeeded. As a result, we have diminished as a nation because when money is the major driving force of any nation, the people suffer.
Public money now goes to private organizations running Charter Schools, many of which are failing and mismanaging funds.
Public money is now going to Private Health Care Corporations and tens of thousands of Americans are dying because they are either being denied care when they need it, by those Corps, or they can't afford it. No other civilized country has this problem.
Public money is going to Private, many times, murderous 'Contractors' and we don't have any accounting for it. The Military is the largest Social Program in the history of the world. No one is complaining about our tax dollars going to continue to fund this program, nor to those public funds ending up in the hands of extremely questionable Private Corporations.
Now they are after the SS fund, the prize they have tried to privatize for decades.
People do not mind paying taxes for education, health, defense so long as it is spent ON those issues. But when over one third of it is going into private hands with little or no accountability, they begin to ask questions.
Mister Ed
(5,924 posts)newspeak
(4,847 posts)Our "liberal" media has been aiding the corporations (since they are corporations) with the meme that the government squanders our money, the government employees are paid too much, the government doesn't do anything but regulate those poor corporations. Over twenty fekkin years of the same BS over and over again. Until the people in the country buy into the US vs THEM way of thinking. That the people are not part of the government-remember "we the people?"
When little boots did his obscene tax cuts my hubby's aunt was gushing about it. I told her then, that the american people would wind up paying the bill big time. As he started wars, allowed his "base" to not pay taxes and basically cut support to states, the states would have to find a way to keep their head above water, which means higher property taxes, higher sales taxes and some states, higher state income tax. It's the trickle ON effect.
But let's not "beat around the bush", the whole environment is to allow more privatization of public responsibilities; and WE will be paying more, while labor will get screwed so that those corporations can make a huge profit. It's called selling off the country one piece at a time. And as reich observed, most of these corporations are no longer american, they are global-have no interest in the health and well being of this country or its' people.
badtoworse
(5,957 posts)The taxes in question are largely state and local taxes which have through the roof in many places. I believe a lot of the resentment is because those taxes are paying for benefits no longer available to the private sector that is paying the bill.
Does anyone here honestly believe that a private sector worker doesn't get pissed off when taxes go up and public sector workers still get a defined benefit pension and free medical? These disappeared from the private sector a long time ago.
Release The Hounds
(467 posts)Apparently perception is reality to you.
badtoworse
(5,957 posts)If you disagree with my post, then explain where I have it wrong. Calling it a RW talking point adds nothing of value to the discussion.
Release The Hounds
(467 posts)1. The public sector has benefits but the private no longer does (or has very little)
2. That the public sector has "free" medical
3. That the public sector has a "defined" pension whereas the private is supposedly SOL (same with medical)
4. That the public workers are basically responsible for the ills if gov't
This explains it better than me:
http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/madison_360/madison-how-a-single-fiction-helps-scott-walker-and-his/article_2cfdc9a4-8b21-11e1-8f62-001a4bcf887a.html
kctim
(3,575 posts)Funny thing is, one of the most effective ways to level things out and lessen the resentment, is more unions and union members. Something liberals/progressives claim to be for.
Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)sector workers.
newspeak
(4,847 posts)private and public or we all go down in the gutter? Because that's exactly what's going to happen. We either fight for decent jobs, decent benefits for everyone, ignoring the media's attempts at directing our anger at those who still have a decent job, or we all eventually wind up going down.
They've played the divide and conquer card long enough.
Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)have hatred for gov't workers.
Any other theories?
adigal
(7,581 posts)Do you think teachers shouldn't have retirement benefits or health insurance while working? What about firefighters?? After banging up their bodies protecting the populace, should we give them benefits, or just throw them out and say, "Good luck finding a job with those bad knees and bad back and messed up lungs"? Please, share your opinions!!
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)making movies that put the U.S. government in a terrible light. Think E.T., the Alien series, Commando, First Blood, Rambo, the fake Welfare Queens meme, terrifying people about the IRS audits (it made it appear as if everyone was going to be audited - at leas, that's what I got). The message was there at every level: Big Government is BAD!
Occulus
(20,599 posts)It was a big- out-of-control corporation. Remember Ripley talking about "the company"?
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)Is that a clue or a symptom?
Iris
(15,649 posts)Started with union jobs and now onto government jobs.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Then it died down for 8 years.
Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #8)
devilgrrl This message was self-deleted by its author.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #32)
devilgrrl This message was self-deleted by its author.
jaysunb
(11,856 posts)Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)A lot earlier than 1996 or 1986
Downwinder
(12,869 posts)Initech
(100,043 posts)"The worst words in the English language are I'm from the government and I'm here to help."
That has been the driving mantra of the GOP since about 1985.
But if you look at the damage these asswipes have done - the most dangerous words now are "Mind if I take a peek in your bedroom?"
The Magistrate
(95,243 posts)Last edited Tue Apr 24, 2012, 04:45 PM - Edit history (1)
Vilification of 'big government' necessarily bleeds onto its workers. Beginning with the Civil Rights laws, 'big government' came to stand in many minds for 'giving my tax dollars to shiftless Negroes', and this drove things like the Wallace and Nixon campaigns, and continued as a basic Republican and rightist theme. In the early sixties, Wallace would tout 'big government', boasting of all the things he saw to government helping Alabama citizens with ( white citizens, of course ), and portrayed the hostility of 'race-mixers' and 'communists' to him as really being motivated by anger at all benefits his government gave to the poor ( white ) people of his state.
Reagan blended this with anti-unionism, and did so in a period of severe recession. People tend to forget unemployment went up to ten percent during Reagan's first two years in office. Unionized workers, particularly unionized government workers, withstood these ravages a bit better than most. But there is a 'dog in the manger' spirit that animates many people, a feeling of 'If I have it bad, why shoudl you have it better?' and this Reagan appealed to skillfully in breaking the Air Traffic Controllers Union.
BY 2000 or so, secure employment had become so rare, and wages had been stagnant so long for most people, that the spectacle of government workers with job security and good insurance and pension benefits roused jealousy, so that this dog in the manger spirit gained ever wider and deeper footing. People do feel a drive towards equality, and if they feel there is no way to level up, will express it in angry desire to see a leveling down. Since government employees are paid from tax revenues, people readily feel they are paying for people to enjoy things they cannot have, or even may have lost not too long ago, and it rankles.
Selatius
(20,441 posts)Once preferential treatment for whites was challenged by federal laws, it did fracture the base of what once was considered the New Deal Coalition forged by FDR a couple decades prior. Nixon didn't help with his famous "Southern Strategy," and Reagan essentially cemented the change into a semi-permanent if not permanent scar on the body politic.
angstlessk
(11,862 posts)If they look different they don't deserve what YOU have..they are shiftless ..you are unemployed!
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)I never thought I would see the day where Americans would envy the salaries and benefits of teachers, police, and firefighters.
YvonneCa
(10,117 posts)mazzarro
(3,450 posts)I thinks part of the problem here is that rePIGs have never been forced to acknowledge that the 'government is bad' fallacy of Reagan is the most stupid and most destructive bs there is. IMO it takes for the appropriate sized government and a good and efficient government that can enforce the laws fairly to allow both government and private sectors to serve the country. Both are required and no one or the other can do a good job of running a democratic country without the other.
I am always appalled when democrats do not push back hard when the impression is given that government is bad along with the bs about business having free reign to do as it pleases. Liberals need to start pushing back on this and make the case for appropriately sized, efficient and fair minded government to coexist with a robust but decently regulated private sector.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)and official DC -- "tax cutters and deficit hawks" in both parties - enabled that process. Reagan started some of it, and Clinton had social services privatizers on his team, but it really got rolling under Bush the Lesser. It's till rolling.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)LibDemAlways
(15,139 posts)gladly accept a government paycheck and generous government benefits while hypocritically denouncing government.
just1voice
(1,362 posts)Just replace the word "Propaganda" with radio in this definition of propaganda and see how well it fits:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda
-----Propaganda is a form of communication that is aimed at influencing the attitude of a community toward some cause or position. Propaganda is usually repeated and dispersed over a wide variety of media in order to create the desired result in audience attitudes.
As opposed to impartially providing information, propaganda, in its most basic sense, presents information primarily to influence an audience. Propaganda often presents facts selectively (thus possibly lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or uses loaded messages to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented. The desired result is a change of the attitude toward the subject in the target audience to further a political agenda. Propaganda can be used as a form of political warfare.-----
Whoa_Nelly
(21,236 posts)writing the memes as revival of anti-union rhetoric for their politicos and wannabe politicians, as just another RW tactic of theirs to further splinter political groups for greater corporate control.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)Ike ran against the "egghead" Adlai Stevenson, who some considered too smart & too elite for the average American - that started the country down the path of denigrating smart people.
Reagan took it to another level with his attacks on unions and his famous saying that the most feared words in the English language were "I'm from the government, I'm here to help"
And, then Bush took it even further, and many of the Republics of 2012 make Bush look like an intellectual.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)Even one?
It was Eisenhower's Administration that developed the Interstate highway system. It was during his Administration when troops were sent to protect students during the integration of a school system. He did things that would be considered liberal today. Unless you have an example to the contrary, you should be willing to agree that he never showed any animosity towards governmental employees.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)I said that his (and his allies) denigrating of eggheads started the country down the path to the anti-intellectualism of today.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)that by adding the connotation "intellectual" and calling special attention to himself as an egghead.
At his March 17, 1954 Harvard lecture, he reportedly used Latin to tell those in the audience,Via ovicipitum dura est (The way of the egghead is hard).
http://iconicphotos.wordpress.com/2010/03/09/adlai-stevenson-with-the-hole-in-his-shoe/
Reportedly a week later, Stevenson sought to create solidarity with some potential voters by joking "Eggheads of the world, unite; you have nothing to lose but your yolks.
This seems to be the origination of the identification of the intellectual connotation "intellectual" with the word "egghead."
Although I dislike modern-day Republicans as much as anyone, I think that it is unfair to the memory of Eisenhower and to our country's history to identify the anti-antellictual antics of any third-rate actor and others with Eisenhower. A plain reading of the words "it started in the 1950s with Eisenhower" indicates that the anti-intellectualism started with Eisenhower.
Eisenhower was a good man. So was Stevenson.
The best quote from Eisenhower may have been the one when he was asked about the contributions made by Nixon to his Administration and he said something along the following lines: "If you give me a week, I might be able to think of one."
Spike89
(1,569 posts)There has always been a deep anti-government aspect to the American experience. We did after all break away from England primarily because of taxation. The rugged individualist meme is even older than the republic. Virtually every "big" government effort from the early whiskey taxes, to slavery, the new deal, civil rights, until today have been met with rebellion.
Today's rancor can be easily traced back to the 60s and the civil rights movement which spawned a new generation of anti-federalists who were natural allies with the always present anti-tax types. Nixon was a big-government republican, but ironically, his disgrace helped discredit government and opened the door for the anti-government forces (Reagan) to take over.
A case can be made that LBJ may have contributed by taking a very strong mandate that government could fix almost anything. The republican party of that era was almost dead, but when the left turned on LBJ's war policies, there really wasn't any group pushing the positive aspects of the great society efforts he and Kennedy had championed.
Spoonman
(1,761 posts)This is an example of why I dislike them!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002605066
Tikki
(14,549 posts)won't join the Union yet take all the benefits, vote against their own interests.
Call their jobs unAmerican, would vote to abolish many of the gov. jobs and then
cry like babies if they don't receive the next pay level a day early.
Tikki
Proud Liberal Dem
(24,396 posts)I never hear about teachers, librarians, or other public servants pulling down salaries or benefits ANYWHERE near Wall Street CEOs. There are some school administrators IMHO whom are pulling down some questionably high salaries (for their actual duties) but, in general, the outrage against public employees and their salaries/benefits is somewhat of a mystery to me. I've worked for my state in child protection services for nearly 10 years and am only pushing (close to) $40K and I've been all but priced out of anything but a high deductible health insurance plan yet some Wall Street CEOs are earning millions of dollars and public employees are the ones whose salaries/benefits people are getting upset over and governors in states across the nation are trying to cut in order to balance their budgets.
BTW did you read about an article that somebody put up last week (I think) that was saying that some states actually allow businesses to keep some tax revenues paid?
Kaleva
(36,259 posts)WinniSkipper
(363 posts)....and that's as it relates to NJ. The backlash against Florio's raising of taxes (Kean left a mess) gave us Whitman. People were so angry at the raising of taxes, that even the State Employees (I was one of them at the time - but voted Florio) voted for Whitman. And it was a very, very close vote.
After they had rid the world of the tax raiser, the focus became on the employees. There were a number of scandals - some legit, some BS - and The Trentonian was a ruthless publication against state employees.
NYC Liberal
(20,135 posts)resurgence every so often.
Baitball Blogger
(46,684 posts)And about twenty years later, Independents started hating government employees because most of them were Republican types who were ready to undermine it to please the good buddy system.
Just a quick stab.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)Populist_Prole
(5,364 posts)I'm so dismayed at the barbs working class people throw at other working class people, whether public or private employed. The general theme I hear all too often from these type of people is that everybody but them is over paid. It's like: "If Company XYZ's workers made only 10 bucks an hour, I could get a...... ( car, plane ticket, new carpet, tires, hotel room...etc ) for a lot less..." Utterly oblivious to the fact that their own employment is in turn nourished by "those other people" having enough income to patronize the business they work for.
Such stupid short-term selfish thinking. Ignorant bastards.
Liquorice
(2,066 posts)takes a downturn. When the economy is doing great, you rarely hear much about government employees, who have safe jobs that don't have the same opportunities for large bonuses and raises as there are in the private sector. But when times get bad and people are looking for work, all of a sudden those safe government jobs seem like heaven and people start complaining about it.
GeorgeGist
(25,311 posts)was a useless idiot.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)then, in the 80s with Reagan Revolution and the rise of Grover Norquist and the Religious Right. Republicans implemented the Southern Strategy which pitted poor and working class whites against poor and working glass blacks.
I really believe that the demonization began under FDR but reached the pinnacle post Watergate and followed by Reagan.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)programs and subsequent backlash pre-Watergate. There has always been a disdain for the so called Welfare State, but I think it reached greatest height post Watergate and beyond.
In my personal opinion, there has always been this racialization of politics that has fueled anti government sentiment as well. Republicans use race well and know how to exploit racist sentiment, fear and resentment among the populace. The Southern Strategy represents that success.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)They have been a target of satirists, cartoonists, and columnists for as long as there have been newspapers.
quaker bill
(8,224 posts)which is why there were a number of Presidents who had affairs that only became public after their deaths.
Civil servants were viewed quite well in the post war period.
newspeak
(4,847 posts)Our money was spent on clinton's penis, but how about poppy? A scandal is meant to distract the public or allow the opposition to get what they want, even if it's against the will of the people. Our complicit media picks and chooses which scandal will be exposed and repeated over and over again. Some in the media also love repeating lies to the public, like gore invented the internet or allowing the swift boat liars public air time without a strong opposition to the lies.
If the media would have done its' job before little boots was selected, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Their faux journalists allowed alleged insider trading, drug usage, military records, driving records and his record as governor to slide. They aided the tough "cowboy" image.
Those scandals that cause harm to the american people, are exposed by brave journalists that put their lives at risk. For instance, exposing drug money laundering, insider trading, putting drugs on our streets, bribery, stealing software from a family business (that had to file bankruptcy) and banking, WS corruption. These offenses HARM the american people more than someone's sexcapades (excluding rape and pedo).
And now the media, over and over again, is airing the columbian prostitute shite and the vegas GSA-and just saw a repug ad blaming obama for the GSA thing. Already they've taken these so called scandals the media has put center stage. and made them into a repug campaign ad. I wonder how many in the government workings are still little boot's holdovers? Because, I remember the great purge by little boots, attempting to get rid of nonloyalty oath civil servants.
sendero
(28,552 posts)... campaign, with the end goal being to privatize everything so that a profit can be made from it.
And make no mistake, they are winning.
barbtries
(28,774 posts)roughly, Reagan.
quaker bill
(8,224 posts)and has steadily gotten worse since. Republicans do not like civil servants because they vote majority Democratic, and have done so for decades, some even have unions. It is pretty much that simple. We cannot be punsihed enough for this, which is why in FL we now have a random drug testing law for civil servants, perhaps next year they will pass random cavity searches.
malaise
(268,724 posts)add Grover, Rove et al
Everyone should follow the Murdoch questioning taking place in Britain today
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/apr/25/rupert-murdoch-live-blog
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)willing to destroy the nation, rather than think of themselves as equals to "them".
libodem
(19,288 posts)Exalt the Paulsons and Geitners of the world.
librechik
(30,674 posts)then he made it true.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)Shankapotomus
(4,840 posts)a one Robert Ciro Gigante appeared in New York.
Interestingly enough, did you know Mr. Gigante (a.k.a. Bob Grant) benefitted in the 1970's from something known as The Fairness Doctrine? The same doctrine conservative radio hosts are saying is evil.
Amazing what you learn on Wiki, eh?
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Grant_(radio)