It's really hard to take criticism of Obama here seriously

[Cali_Democrat]

Currently there's a thread going after Obama for being one of three Presidents to never raise the federal minimum wage.

This is one of the most laughable things I've ever seen, especially considering all that happened just this year.

Let's review, shall we?

1) Presidents don't create laws, Congress does. In order for Obama to raise the minimum wage, it would require them to pass legislation he can sign.

2) The Republicans in Congress have repeatedly blocked minimum wage increase bills:

Republican-Led Filibuster Blocks Minimum Wage Bill in Senate
Source: NYT

WASHINGTON — A proposal to raise the federal minimum wage to $10.10, an underpinning of President Obama’s economic agenda and an issue that Democrats hope to leverage against Republicans in the midterm elections, failed in the Senate on Wednesday.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014792641

3) Obama has attacked Republicans for blocking minimum wage increases:

Obama Rips Senate Republicans For Blocking Bill To Raise The Minimum Wage

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024891820

4) Obama has even gone around Congress where possible....he signed an executive order increasing the minimum wage for federal contractors:

Obama to raise minimum wage for federal contractors

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014711085

-------------------------------------

Let me take a wild guess about what will happen the next two years....the Republican-controlled Congress will block any minimum wage increases, and of course it will be the black guy's fault.

[geek tragedy]

1. Look at yet people who write and rec such idiocy.

Very unsurprising.

[Bobbie Jo]

5. +1

So predictable.

Zero credibility.

[Tarheel_Dem]

36. +1

[1StrongBlackMan]

39. Yes ...

and I read earlier, he was welcomed into the club of "some great people"!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026000023 comment #20.

[giftedgirl77]

56. Ahh shit, he came back for more after getting locked

out of his pathetic thread last night where he was openly taunting DU'ers. We didn't bother to alert on him because he was making such a spectacle of himself, but someone else did & but an end to our fun. I think we have finally hit the bottom of the barrel.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5998446

[Number23]

97. GG, looks like he got locked out of his latest foray as well

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026000023#post133

Do you think that now maybe, possibly that he and his handful of lackeys might think about getting the hint??

[Cha]

102. For calling the President "O'Bummer".. like some rw idiot and he thinks he can flaunt that around

DU? Almost.. 4-3! Thank you Jury guys!

Mahalo 23~

[giftedgirl77]

109. After the thread last night with him it doesn't surprise

me at all... Happy Holidays Cha

[Cha]

114. Oh no.. there will be another one tomorow on Christmas trying to get recs with some

other disingenuous flamebait.. knowing the recs will pile up with his new bffs on DU. lol

Love, Peace, and Aloha to you and yours, giftedgirl~

[yuiyoshida]

116. psssst....

Happy Holidays Cha!

[Cha]

118. Happy Holidays to you, yuiyoshida!

Love, Peace, and Aloha to you and yours~

[yuiyoshida]

123. That is such

a cool pic,

[Cha]

124. I got it from babylonsister.. I had to have it! :)

[heaven05]

167. there are a lot

on here now, bff's of the rush limbaugh quoting troll and it wouldn't surprise me to find out they actually listen to and believe that monstrosity of a human being.

[Number23]

111. Now, Cha you know that calling the president O'Bummer is just righteous, PRINCIPLED criticism!1

How dare you besmirch the honor of that poster and the 19 souls who rec'd his OP, you big meanie!

I mean just because Rush Limbaugh and his drool soaked fans at Free Republic use the EXACT SAME language to attack the president doesn't mean in any way that this type of name calling idiocy (not to mention the simply BEYOND obvious attempts to mischaracterize the man's policies and positions) is some sort of ignorant, ad hominem attack that says FAR more about the people making them than the subject of the attacks themselves.

I mean if people who dislike the man's policies (because isn't that what they always say? It's not HIM personally, it's his policies??) aren't allowed to use or support right wing language and tactics when referring to him, then by golly, how will DU differentiate itself from EVERY OTHER WEB SITE that exists out there today and is full to the brim with racist, right wing loons that live to malign every single thing that the man does?

[Cha]

122. Yeah, it's righteous with online baggers! Who don't possess the intellect to come up with

anything else but disingenuous bullshite. Bless their hearts.. they figured they could just bounce in here and say whatever shite they wanted about Pres Obama.. no one would question them. Oooops.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

201. Personally I want to know why Obama hasnt fixed all the problems created

the previous 200 years by all those other presidents and politicians.

Surely by now he could have fixed everything...

Thanks Obama

[giftedgirl77]

105. Only a 4-3 hide for it & 19 reccs for that garbage OP

boy o boy is this place showing it's proud Democratic colors or what?

Why MIRT didn't zapp him last night when all of his post's were nothing but instigating bullshit is beyond me.

[heaven05]

168. says a lot

about a lot-4-3, says it all. And they always are easy to spot, sooner or later....some are slick...just not smart.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

209. Which part of this statement from the hidden post above is true?

"I do not listen to Rush, so that is where I heard the reference."

[giftedgirl77]

212. Oh, I'm going to say that's where he got it from

along with the rest of his shitty talking points since they seem right along the same lines. You would think 3 hides in 3 days with just over 150 posts would scream troll but I guess not.

[Cha]

98. Oh yeah.. LOL the exalted ones/the self proclaimed know it alls. Rofl you can see how much they

"know" by their OPs. And, their ODS that is so strong that President Obama must be blamed for everything.. oh, and they know there's plenty of followers to give them recs around here.. word is out.

[Bobbie Jo]

241. That ass showing

was certainly nothing to be proud of.

On the other hand, I can see why he was welcomed with open arms by the club. The bigger the lie, the better.

[ismnotwasm]

72. Not surprising at all.

[billhicks76]

90. He Did It Again

Referring to Jeb Bush running he stated AGAIN that regardless of policy he is very close with the Bush family and has met with Jeb and Bush Sr numerous times at the White House. He reiterated that not only is he close personal friends with these criminals but he assures us that they are very good people. But they are not and anyone with a brain knows it's a flat out lie. All you "Democrats" who call for torture prosecutions along with the NYT but can't understand why it doesn't happen have your answer right there. No one prosecutes war crimes or crimes against humanity of a close personal friend who you laud as "good people".

[Number23]

96. BOOM. You could not have nailed it harder

Particularly the bit about the people who REC such idiocy

[AZ Mike]

2. There are definitely valid criticisms of Obama....

....but the minimum wage issue is not among them.

This is a great OP. Love the CONTEXT that is applied to the situation.

:thumbup:

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

3. The known tactic is to get democrats NOT to vote, there are thousands of operatives hired

by the rove machine or koch machine to sit on message boards, yahoo comment sections, facebook, etc. to drive the meme that voting just wont work but if you do vote make sure it is for something NEW and different

i.e.

No matter what you do, dont vote for Hillary Clinton

attacking Obama, we are used to that, we know who does it and why, but it serves a dual purpose about voting.

[Hekate]

4. +1

[arcane1]

6. It's true- if one doesn't support Clinton, it's because they work for Rove.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

9. If one has a choice in November in the presidential election of voting for Clinton, the repub

or a 3rd party, and they dont vote for Clinton or ANY democrat who is in the slot, one is putting lives at risk, more than at risk, one is guaranteeing DEATH and DESTRUCTION as that is the agenda of the republican party.

[SunSeeker]

19. ^^^^THIS^^^^

[calimary]

65. Totally!!!!

Just think Supreme Court. You want one of theirs picking the next one(s)?

[AgingAmerican]

32. The election hasn't even started yet

She is not inevitable.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

34. agreed...I hope Bernie or Liz get in....

[Dustlawyer]

173. Amen to that! Clinton will continue to do Wall Streets bidding. Support Bernie to run as a

Democrat and if Hillary or some other Democrat wins, support them. Bernie has a solution to stop the Plutocrats ability to control our government, Hilary will do nothing but perpetuate it! Bernie is a long shot only because we don't all get behind him. Do any here think her policies are better than his? I'll admit Hillary is still better than any Repug, but they own her too!

[MH1]

71. True, but the statement was twisted.

The example of trollery was given: "No matter what you do, dont vote for Hillary Clinton "

This was twisted to "if you don't support Hillary you work for Rove".

That's a twist because the first one is saying NEVER vote for Hillary, the twisted version is trying to say that you can't support anyone but Hillary even in the primary.

If someone is saying "NEVER vote for Hillary under any circumstances" - then yes, I would say they are working for Rove's side, that's for sure. IF the general election came down to Hillary Clinton vs Sarah Palin for example? Really would any sane person NOT vote for Hillary? I damn sure don't think she's the most progressive option in the primary. But I am ready and willing to vote for her in the general if she is the Dem party nominee.

[ffr]

50. +1000 K&R

Well said. Thank you!

[frylock]

58. how does that work if one lives in a solid blue state?

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

61. Then I suppose you could vote for Mickey Mouse, if that made you feel good.

We need to abolish the electoral college

If there was a viable green party candidate and you are in a solid blue state, vote for that person

[cui bono]

153. Oh please. If someone votes for the person they wish to become president

they are acting like a good citizen of a democracy called the USA.

If you really believe what you say then you need to lay the blame on who is allowing us to have such poor choices in the Dem Party. And you need to stop blaming citizens for exercising their right and voting for the person they feel is the best choice.

You don't like it? Then make sure we have a better choice and stop trying to feed us Hilary. We don't want her.

[99Forever]

172. ^^This^^

I accept no responsibility if the Democratic Party nominates someone I cannot in good conscience vote for.

I owe no one my support or vote, each must EARN that from me. Failure to address the issues important to me and my family and failure to fight HARD for policies I agree with, disqualifies them from my support or vote. Run good, strong, progressive, populist candidates, or lose. Simple as that.

No amount of brow beating, finger-pointing, guilt trip laden rhetoric will ever change that. And I'm not alone. Deal with it.

[raindaddy]

176. Agreed!

This time around I'm going to need more than campaigning as a traditional populist Democrat. I'm not going to allow the media and Wall Street to choose my candidate and simply having a "D" behind his/her name won't be enough.

[L0oniX]

180. +1

[heaven05]

170. +1

[Alkene]

166. I'm still waiting for Carl's check. n/t

[L0oniX]

189. All I got is some shitty McDonalds Happy Meal coupons.

[heaven05]

169. Well if Hillary is our only

choice and a republican lackey, who are you going to vote for?

[arcane1]

205. I was thinking more about primaries than the general. The dem will get my vote.

[Tarheel_Dem]

63. Thread Winner!

[Scootaloo]

66. And posts like yours actually lend credence to your own theory

"Suck it up and vote for whatever is thrown at you, you mindless shits" actually does more to dampen votes than anything else.

[840high]

91. ...^ that

[cui bono]

154. Thank you.

As does telling us NOW that Hilary is the one for 2016 and just deal with it because no one else has a chance. Never mind that Obama was virtually unknown to the American public when he ran and won.

[laundry_queen]

225. IKR?

It's hard to take people who say THOSE things seriously in any way also.

[Phlem]

77. So we want more conservative Democrats!?

That would be why I wouldn't vote. I'm trying to get as far away from Conservative Republican ideology as I can but instead we march further to the right completely throwing anyone none conservative or critical of Obama under the bus while at the same time driving fear into the Democratic party from said Republican boogeymen.

WTF

Like Obama's choice for Rahm Emanuel was inspirational as most of his other picks.

When are we ever going to try a left turn?

It's been decades of cuddling up to bankers, when will that ever stop?

Are you a 3rd way supporter?

[Bobbie Jo]

121. Case in point.

Ridiculous framing, start to finish.

The "third way" reference was particularly silly. This is why certain "critics" aren't taken seriously around here.

[L0oniX]

179. Bizzaro much?

You mean we can get paid a living wage for this?

[SidDithers]

7. DU has become one the best anti-Obama, anti-Democrat sites around...

Remember when Admins enforced the TOS?

Now, it's a fucking free-for-all. A bacchanalia of ODS and hate.

Sid

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

10. + ten million

I wish I could start a liberal message board, would be unique

[steve2470]

11. +1 nt

[rhett o rick]

24. You don't have to venture out of the comfort of the BOG. Outside we have posters

that had some hope for change. While you might point out that we are better off than Bush, some are still not happy with where we are. The poverty rate continues to climb while some praise how great the President is for Wall Street's success. The continuous Middle East war continues to drain the lower classes of their meager wealth. And please explain why we shouldn't be disappointed in the President's soft sell on torture.

This is intended to be a "politically liberal" message board. I don't understand those that would ban all criticism of the president.

No one here hates the President and to suggest so is IMO divisive. I personally am strongly against the Oligarchy that grips this nation and will speak out against those that support that Oligarchy.

[SunSeeker]

29. "the President's soft sell on torture."

Please provide a link where President Obama is "selling" torture, be it a hard sell or soft sell.

[rhett o rick]

43. Ok, you tell me how you describe his "we tortured some folks" speech. nm

[SunSeeker]

62. I figured you had nothing.

The President actually admitting that this country tortured people (apparently you object to calling people "folks&quot is anything but "selling" torture.

[rhett o rick]

74. I stated my opinion. I asked your opinion. It's you that have nothing.

At a time when he needs to be decisive he brushes off the torture accomplished by the Bush Admin. Look up the definition of soft-sell.

I don't approve of torture. Do you? I don't approve of Pres Obama's brushing the issue off in lieu of doing something.

Do you think the President should pardon the torturers?

Come on and give us some opinions.

[7962]

136. Maybe the President is smarter than you think? Maybe he knows more than YOU do?

About the subject?
The fact of that report that gets missed is that none of those CIA people who were doing all the bad stuff ever got interviewed for the report. The President knows this and he's not going to make himself like like a fool by trying to get a conviction on something he likely wouldnt get.

[rhett o rick]

139. Sad the lengths you will go to to exonerate your leader. Are you suggesting that the report isn't

valid because they didn't interview the torturers? That's the Fox News argument. And you must see how bogus it is. There is no question that torture occurred. They have photos. And apparently Pres Obama stands with Bush and Cheney on this. And apparently that's just cool with you. The president is complicit.

[NanceGreggs]

158. Apparently ...

"And apparently Pres Obama stands with Bush and Cheney on this."

"And apparently that's just cool with you."

What is really apparent here - and has been for a long time - is the fact that no matter what Obama says or does, you have a major fuckin' problem with it.

"Sad the lengths you will go to to exonerate your leader."

There is no necessity to "exonerate" Obama for whatever feeble ideas you come up with as to why he is guilty of something, or complicit in anything. What is sad is the lengths you consistently prove you are willing to go to - in order to be poutraged, non-stop, 24/7, and to post about that poutrage incessantly.

"That's the Fox News argument."

Let me tell you what else is the Fox News argument: Obama is a terrible president. Everything he does is wrong, every decision he makes is the worst decision imaginable, every promise he's ever made has been broken, he is a charlatan who feigns love of country and concern for his fellow citizens. Whatever he does it too late, too little - or too soon, and self-servingly grand.

Now tell us how your rantings about Obama have differed from the "Fox News argument", rhett.

Or better yet - don't. I think we've pretty much heard it all before.

[Cha]

108. Poor things are grasping to that straw that it was their last hope on Earth. "But, but, but, the

President said 'folks' " President Obama stopped the "Torturing" and Released the Report.

[paleotn]

131. And precisely who is being indicted....

for willfully violating federal law? Just as soon as we indict some Wall Street types for fraud tied to CDOs and the ensuing financial melt down, then maybe we'll get around to BushCo torture. Well, we tortured some folks, but nothing to see here, move along...move along....

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I/chapter-113C

However, the President does support raising the minimum wage and I applaud him for that. For other things...not so much. He's human folks, not some damn god to be worshiped.

[Cha]

132. And, nobody "worships" him.

[paleotn]

133. Indeed.....

....I like the guy on many things, but some here seem to think he's the freaking messiah and anyone who dares criticize he who currently resides upon Mt. Olympus in any way, shape or form is a worthless heretic, fit only to be mocked and ridiculed. Some are just cranks, and I get that, but many have valid arguments that are just brushed aside in the rush to defend the great and powerful Obama.

Still waiting for indictments....not holding my breath, however. I suppose the rule of law only applies to us little people, not Wall Street tycoons or Dick "I'd do it again in a minute" Cheney.

[LordGlenconner]

247. They object to the use of an informal term "folks" as it relates to torture

And yeah, really, that's all they've got.

[Orsino]

178. Until there's a link to the Attorney General prosecuting some of the masterminds...

...the president is not so much selling torture as he is providing it a free pass. Don't torture, but if you do, well, don't torture. I don't see a big moral distinction.

If he has the inclination to see prosecution, he lacks the courage. Or it's chess, or something.

[SidDithers]

38. "No one here hates the President"...

Are you really that naive?

Sid

[1StrongBlackMan]

42. It's not naivete. n/t

[SidDithers]

53. Nailed it...nt

Sid

[Bobbie Jo]

67. No, it's not. nt

[rhett o rick]

44. I think you mistake anything other than pure adulation as hate. It makes it easier for you.

I would hope that "politically liberal" posters would encourage open discussions and not try to mold everyone into one mindset.

[SidDithers]

45. And I think you agree with much of the hate, so you don't see it for what it is...nt

Sid

[rhett o rick]

52. I find it ironic that those that want to lock and hide all posts that don't conform to their

world view, accuse others of hate. Seems that some are not content with the safety of the BOG and want to turn GD into another BOG. No debate, no discussion of issues just everyone agreeing that Pres Obama can do no wrong.

I like Pres Obama and his family. What I hate is the control of the Oligarchy which is killing the lower classes. I hate the endless, meaningless wars that are draining the meager wealth of the lower classes. I hate the Conservative ideology that puts profits over peoples welfare. I hate that this country stood by and let some thugs commit torture and now are going to just let it slide.

You want it too easy. You want to believe that everyone that doesn't completely agree with your world view are haters. That doesn't sound "politically liberal" to me.

[ctsnowman]

160. Nailed it.

But I do agree with the OP that the minimum wage rap is BS.

[L0oniX]

182. Double nailed it!

[840high]

235. Make that a triple.

[WillTwain]

184. I love the President. He is a great dad and brilliant man. Though not perfect.

He is a very like-able guy that has let many "real" progressives down.

He is the first African American president. I cannot be prouder of our country for putting that shame behind us.

On steering us away from the fiscal cliff that working class Americans are headed toward, he has done far to little.

He lobbied for Cromnibus. What else needs to be said?

He had a chance to do what economists like Stiglitz and Reich say would be one of the most important things he could do - raise the minimum wage but did not do it. The argument that he could not get it done because 60 votes was impossible is disingenuous. The ACA, which was political dynamite, passed with 60 votes. Surely, a minimum wage increase, which has broad support from all Americans, would have been easier to pass than the ACA.

He is in fact, the only democratic president to not fight for and win a raise for the working poor. To let this slide when the minimum wage is such injustice is sad.

He blew it.

[rhett o rick]

188. Raising the minimum wage would have been a hard fight but that is all the more reason to

fight hard. It should have been a Democratic issue for the last election. The President and all the Democratic candidates should have stood together and pointed out that the Republicans want to hold down all wage increases. What the people saw was a disunited Democratic Party, unclear what issues to champion. Falling back on the, "we aren't as bad as the Republicans" stand.

Some say that if Democrats stand up for Democratic principles they will lose, well they lost anywayz. I would rather see them risk it, trust the people, and loudly proclaim the difference between the parties. Some here accuse others of not recognizing the difference between parties but apparently don't care that the candidates don't make the distinction.

[WillTwain]

192. Love it: Your post is perfect. I hope the opposition will consider it.

I honestly believe they could have raised the minimum wage with strong leadership from the president. If not, why not go down swinging. We will never know, because they did not fight hard. They fought hard for Cromnibus but not the minimum wage. Sad but true.

[LordGlenconner]

248. +1

[Cha]

115. No.. they just deny deny deny.. familiar pattern.

[pnwmom]

59. Why should people objecting to LIES have to confine themselves to the BOG? n/t

[rhett o rick]

80. You define "LIES" as anything contrary to your idea that Pres Obama can do no wrong.

I don't care who posts in GD unlike some here that would lock, hide and ban all that don't agree with their world view.

My comment concerns those that post pure adulation OP's in GD and then get upset when anyone disagrees. If total acceptance is what you are after, you have a Group especially for that. But I suspect it gets boring in the BOG and some venture out into GD with their adulation OP's just to get a reaction.

I react because I want things to change instead of steadily getting worse. The poverty levels are continuing to increase yet some applaud the President for the stock market success. I believe that in some areas the Pres has done all he can, but other areas, I am not at all happy with his stands. That doesn't mean I hate him.

Have a Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays. Maybe in the new year we can find some common ground.

[pnwmom]

85. That's NOT how I define "lies." A lie is an intentional misstatement of fact,

which happens often around here, especially when people are attacking the President.

The OP is about the demonstrably false claims people are making about Obama with regard to the minimum wage, and other equally false claims.

Valid criticism is one thing. Making up lies is another.

It's fine if people criticize Obama, but only if they stick to the truth. And it is NOT true that Obama hasn't supported a higher minimum wage.

[WillTwain]

185. Of course Obama, supported a higher minimum wage. He did not get it, though.

Yes, he occasionally mentioned it, but the bottom line is he did not push it through. He found the will to push through the Cromnibus bill but not the minimum wage. Do you see this?

Has he ever whipped on the floor for the progressive caucus' budget?

People, this is right in front of you. Do not look away.

[pnwmom]

207. Can you see the difference?

The Cromnibus bill -- which, though deeply flawed, was far better than the alternative Rethug budget they would have passed in January -- could be pushed through because all that was needed were the votes of a few Democrats.

Obama couldn't push through a higher minimum wage with ONLY the votes of Democrats. How do you think he could have succeeded in getting the progressive caucus budget approved by the Rethug house, matter how much whipping he attempted?

[Bluenorthwest]

60. Not really, the poverty rate fell from 15% in 2013 to 14.5 in 2014 and that's the first decline

since 2006. You claim it continues to climb, but that is not the case.

[rhett o rick]

82. I stand corrected. I was looking at 2012 data. It has dropped but still significantly above 2008

levels.

[sheshe2]

26. KnR

What you said Sid. Who needs discussionist when we have this~

[Logical]

27. So disagreeing with Obama is being anti-Obama. LOL, ok. nt

[KittyWampus]

31. it's isn't about disagreeing w/Obama. It's the stupidity of some of the attacks

and the complete lack of political awareness that many of the attacks.

Maybe go back and read the OP again.

[Logical]

33. I can imagine if some like you were admins. Every complaint would be locked. nt

[Cha]

110. And, they know that too.. just playing obtuse like they always do. Same with the "fucking used pos

car salesman".. whining because they couldn't "criticize" the President.

[uponit7771]

41. Overt strawman noted, disenginous at best

[Doctor_J]

246. And racist hatred

Even by those who voted for him

[uponit7771]

40. +1

[BlueCaliDem]

81. +1000. It's sickening, isn't it?

Some here - a loud minority - will nitpick everything and anything this president does and then present it as "fail". Rove should come here and start recruiting...or has he already? One wonders...

[cui bono]

155. LOL. "anti-Democrat"

Right.

btw... considering Obama is center-right, it's not really being "anti-Democrat" to criticize him. I mean he's the one who likened himself to a moderate Republican.

You ever stop to think that if he actually acted like a Democrat most of the time he wouldn't receive this sort of criticism? But if he's going to court Wall Street, shut out his base and the progressives, be best buds with the Bushes well... what do you expect? Any thinking person would criticize that. Only those who throw out their critical thinking and are apologists don't.

[WillTwain]

186. Great points: He also has publicly praised Reagan numerous times

Praise FDR and LBJ and drop gushing for Reagan of all people. He is the reason we are in this disaster.

[NYC Liberal]

204. Considering Obama is a LIBERAL, progressive DEMOCRAT, the constant, non-stop criticism

with absolutely no recognition of any accomplishments (and mocking anyone who dares to point them out) on a website called Democratic Underground, is pathetic. That does not apply to every critic. But there is a very vocal group on this website to which it does apply.

You ever stop to think that if he actually acted like a Democrat most of the time he wouldn't receive this sort of criticism?

No, because the criticism is coming from a very, very tiny (but quite loud) segment that does is not representative Democrats or even Liberals. Because liberals overwhelmingly support President Obama and think he's done quite a fine job a president.

[cui bono]

250. First off, Obama is NO WHERE NEAR being a liberal or a progressive Dem.

He's a self-described moderate Republican.

What kind of liberal puts Wall Street in the White House? Appoints ex-Monsanto CEOs to the EPA? Bails out banks and then doesn't even fight for a public option? Has secret meetings with big pharma/insurance companies and then denies it repeatedly until forced to admit it? Doesn't even let single-payer advocates come to the table?

The "Obama is a liberal" schtick is worse than old. It's dangerous. It's the redefining of what a liberal is and it's moving the political spectrum farther and farther to the right. There are no liberals to speak of in DC. The ones that are there barely get a peep in and have no real influential power, especially when their admin tells them to stfu.

As to your other point about liberal support, most people are ill-informed and are not paying attention to the day to day goings on in DC.
I know self-described liberals who believe they are happy with PBO but have no idea of what he's done, or has not done. They don't realize what the Patriot Act does or know that it's still in existence. They don't know the extent of the NSA spying. They don't know that Obama pushed for that, pushed to legalize what we all were worried about when Bush was doing it illegally. That's not liberal at all. And I didn't even bring up the drone strikes and the saying that it's okay to assassinate American citizens or that --- damn, I had a really good one but I got distracted and forgot what it was... well you get the picture.

No matter what he's done as far as accomplishments, it does not show him to be a liberal when you add in all the negative/conservative/Republicanesque stuff he has done. Like I said, he's a self-described moderate Republican.

[NYC Liberal]

252. You are completely and totally wrong.

Yes, President Obama is a liberal Democrat. He is not a "self-described" "moderate Republican".

A liberal fights for equal rights for all Americans.

A liberal fights for health care reform that has allowed millions to get health care that they were never able to get before and rein in insurance companies.

A liberal ends the ill-begotten wars started by his right-wing predecessor.

A liberal supports women's rights.

A liberal supports veterans and fights to expand the VA budget in the face of hypocritical Republicans who fight against it.

A liberal ends Don't Ask Don't Tell and fights to end DOMA.

A liberal appoints liberals to the Supreme Court.

And on, and on, and on, and on.

Oh and the liberals I know are very smart, in-tune, and know exactly what's going on. And they support President Obama. Your insinuation that any liberal who supports him has to be "ill-informed" (translation: idiots) is quite disgusting.

"No matter what he's done as far as accomplishments..." And there we have it. It doesn't matter what he does, it's not good enough. Thanks for coming right out and saying it.

[cui bono]

253. Oh really.... you don't even know he is a self-described moderate Republican,

Last edited Fri Jan 9, 2015, 02:15 PM - Edit history (1)

But I'm the one who is completely wrong?

I have to prove that to the apologists on here so many times I think I might just have to make an OP out of it and put it in my journal.

Here's a video where he says the words himself. If you have any trouble viewing it all you have to do is google "Obama moderate Republican" and you can find a lot of links where you can read about it:

That proves my original point right there but I can't let you get away with that disingenuous tactic of trying to make me have said something I never said at all. We know who employs this tactic on a regular basis and we know that it doesn't work except on the lowest information people with no critical thinking skills. If you don't want to deal with facts then I can't help you.

However, twisting my words as you did at the end does not win you an argument. It only makes you a bad debater.

I stand by exactly what I said, that no matter what his accomplishments he will never be a liberal.

You, however, chose to truncate my quote, you know edit it, in much the same way that Faux News does, in order to make it appear that I would be unhappy with Obama no matter what his accomplishments, leaving out completely that I said it doesn't make him liberal. Way to employ those Rovian/Faux News/GOP/Tea Party tactics. Like I said, bad debating. But that's worse, that's disingenuous and an attempt to swiftboat me. Nice going.

What you quoted from me and your fantastical interpretation of it, from your post:

"No matter what he's done as far as accomplishments..." And there we have it. It doesn't matter what he does, it's not good enough. Thanks for coming right out and saying it.

What I ACTUALLY said:

No matter what he's done as far as accomplishments, it does not show him to be a liberal when you add in all the negative/conservative/Republicanesque stuff he has done. Like I said, he's a self-described moderate Republican.

Slightly different, wouldn't you say?

In fact, your entire post proves the point I was making that you can make a "list" but when you ignore all the Republican actions he has taken you are not being accurate or fair. You are simply cherry picking. Do you think that a scientist would think your evidence is full and conclusive? Maybe. If they were the type that denies climate change exists.

No, you are the one who is completely wrong. You can surely see that now since I'm sure you've most certainly watched the video and heard him say what I said himself. You can call him what you like, doesn't change anything.

A rose by any other name...

You're welcome.

[840high]

236. ....

[L0oniX]

181. *

[Cha]

213. Yeah, word is out.. popping up daily.. finding their new instant bffs on DU. I got

a hide last night for calling Putin a ******* ********** *******.

[SidDithers]

214. Pitt can call Onama a piece of shit used car salesman...

but mocking Putin will get you hidden.

Makes my brain hurt.

Sid

[Cha]

215. Yeah, I thought of that too..

actually, one of the jurors said he/she agreed with me but it was a "hide" so either they hit the wrong button.. or ? I dunno. Anyway, I guess I better watch my Ps and Qs!

Happy Holidays, Sid!

[Capt. Obvious]

8. Did you get blocked from that thread?

[bravenak]

12. That thread is stupid.

[Cha]

119. lol but what passes for full intellectual know it allsim among the exalted.

[NewDeal_Dem]

13. The President lobbied hard for the recent budget bill with perks for 1%ers. Not so much

for an increased minimum wage.

[Cali_Democrat]

14. Lies

https://www.google.com/search?q=obama+urges+comgress+minimum+wage&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari#hl=en&q=obama+urges+congress+minimum+wage&spell=1

[Andy823]

28. It's funny isn't it

People make up shit, and yet when confronted by facts, they are silent!

It seems like more and more these day people don't bother with links to back their BS remarks, they just make it up and as long as all the other anti Obama crowd backs them up, they simply refuse to listen to "any" facts that prove they are wrong. It's more like fox news reporting, make it up and who cares if it's true or not.

[NewDeal_Dem]

92. Wow, Obama made a speech asking Congress to raise the minimum. That's what passes

for lobbying today.

I wonder, is that what he did to get his banker-favoring budget passed?

[Shivering Jemmy]

104. Well spill it then

What did he do to get it passed?


You don't know do you?

[NewDeal_Dem]

112. He did more than make a speech, apparently.

Thanks in part to a rare alliance between President Barack Obama and Speaker John Boehner, the House voted Thursday to pass a $1.1 trillion spending bill to fund the government, clearing a hurdle to avoid an otherwise imminent government shutdown.

At the eleventh hour, Obama and Boehner scrambled to salvage the bill – which passed by a vote of 219 to 206 – amid a Republican revolt over immigration and a Democratic revolt over provisions that would deregulate Wall Street and increase the amount that individual donors can contribute to national political party committees.

With its fate in doubt, President Obama took to the phones to personally lobby Democratic members to vote for the legislation, a development White House spokesman Josh Earnest confirmed to msnbc’s Alex Wagner. Obama also spoke to Democratic Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, who emerged this week as the deal’s most prominent antagonist, ahead of a Thursday evening meeting between House Democrats to determine their next move. They were joined by White House chief of staff Dennis McDonough, who argued that the package was the best they could do and funded a number of critical priorities.

But in a dramatic turn, Boehner only barely managed to pass a procedural motion to advance the bill after Democrats unanimously voted “no” along with 16 Republicans. Republican leaders scrambled to convince enough conservative dissenters to change their votes to “yes” at the last second and it passed with a razor-thin 214-212 vote margin.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/house-set-vote-spending-bill

[Shivering Jemmy]

117. So what bill did you want him to make calls for?

Was there anything up for a vote?

[WillTwain]

183. Thanks NDD: This is the truth that the "Blind Faithers" do not want to believe

President Obama has a long history of saying the right thing a few times, so he is on the record, then doing the opposite - a classic political ploy. Apparently, it works.

I love when he says he is focused like a laser on the middle class and will fight hard for them everyday. Then he slashes pensions and deregulates Wall Street. Oh, and he tried to cut Social Security through chained C.P.I. There are many more examples but the three I gave should be ample.

[840high]

93. Didn't the military get

a 1% increase ? whoopi-doo.

[NewDeal_Dem]

125. No, 1% was just the pay raise.

•1% military pay increase. Generally, annual increase are tied to civilian wage growth which is 1.8% this year. See the Proposed Military Pay Charts.

•Basic Allowance for Housing (BAH) will be reduced by 1%. Veterans receiving the Post-9/11 GI Bill will be exempt.

•Increased Tricare Pharmacy Co-Pays – Most Prescription co-pays will be increased by $3. Mail-order generic drugs are not increased

•The A-10 warthog is prohibited from being retired

•$521.3 billion defense bill budget package

•$63.7 billion more in overseas contingency funds

•$5 billion for the current fight in Iraq and Syria

•Bans transferring terror suspects from Guantanamo Bay detention center

•The 1% retirement pay reduction (COLA-minus one plan) for future service members was delayed at least one more year, January 1, 2016

•Changes to the military justice system in how sexual assault cases are handled

•Fort Hood, Texas attack victims in 2009 are eligible to receive the Purple Heart


Read more: http://militarybenefits.info/president-obama-signs-defense-spending-bill/#ixzz3MrwZo4H0

[840high]

134. Thanks for clarification.

[Cha]

126. That's a blatant LIE.. here are the FACTS. Please Read and Digest it.. then maybe you won't go

around spreading propaganda.

Obama's budget: Help for workers, taxes for the rich

"President Obama on Tuesday released a nearly $4 trillion budget proposal for 2015 that includes more generous tax breaks for working families while scaling back breaks for the rich."

snip//

"But the plan also features a $56 billion growth and investment package that includes money for universal pre-K, infrastructure and job training. Obama proposes to pay for those initiatives through additional spending restraint and increased revenue."

MOre..
http://money.cnn.com/2014/03/04/pf/taxes/obama-budget-taxes/

[NewDeal_Dem]

140. This is from March. What actually passed in December & what did Obama man the phone

banks for?

[Andy823]

15. I read that other thread

Total BS post by a new poster who is spewing the same old BS we have seen for years here. Nothing new, just the same old Bull, and the same anti Obama crowd cheering him on. If some one is so serious about the minimum wage issue the need to get out and take this on at the state level, not come here and spread BS about how it's all the presidents fault when congress has to pass a bill before the national minimum wage can go up.

It's so obvious that those who complain all the time day after day after day don't really care about facts, they simply have an agenda that is NOT to support the party or the president, nope it's all about bashing them.

[SidDithers]

16. A "new" poster, surely...nt

Sid

[SunSeeker]

22. ...better believe it!

And don't call me Shirley.

[BlueCaliDem]

83. Airplane!

[Dont call me Shirley]

239. I am serious and

[greatauntoftriplets]

17. Nailed it!

[Thinkingabout]

35. K & R

Good post, trashing simply for the fact of trashing. For some who takes the time to research to see the cognitive dissonance, we should leave the trashing to the GOP, we need to support Democrats.

[bemildred]

18. Yeah, that's a dumb argument.

Presidents don't pass laws, they sign them.

[baldguy]

20. But attacking the Democratic President

and advocating the withdrawal of liberal & progressive support from the Democratic Party is a very good way of ensuring that there will never be any liberal & progressive legislation passed by Congress and signed into law ever again.

[rhett o rick]

49. I would expect Democrats to recognize that holding elected representatives accountable is

not the same as attacking.

"and advocating the withdrawal of liberal & progressive support from the Democratic Party is a very good way of ensuring that there will never be any liberal & progressive legislation passed by Congress and signed into law ever again." I dont disagree, but who is doing that? I say kick the damn conservatives out of our party.

The status quo is literally killing members of the lower classes while Conservative Democrats praise Obama for the success of Wall Street.

[Phlem]

73. exactley

Blinders aren't only for the republican base.

[laundry_queen]

228. It's really shocking to see the depth of that here...

once upon a time we at DU used to make fun of republicans for doing the same things done here now. Sad.

[WillTwain]

197. My point exactly, criticizing Obama does not make one a racist troll

And the idea that a minimum wage increase - once a democratic core belief - could not be achieved is ludicrous. He did not fight hard. That is obvious. Warren or Sanders would have succeeded (they had 59 dems and passed the ACA with 60). They are fighters.

Wake up America.

[flamingdem]

21. Well reasoned post Cali_D

Happy Holidays to you

[byronius]

23. And to think I woke up today with gratitude in my heart for that guy.

Without him, I think we're all royally screwed. Best President of my lifetime. I respect and trust his instincts as a public servant.

We're going to miss him something awful when he's gone. There won't be another like him for generations.

Haters gonna hate, and some haters are going to make up shit to hate.

I know the truth. Dude's like the last decent thing going for this tortured nation.

PS: My Obamacare rates (after subsidy) went down about eight percent for 2015. So there's that.

[SunSeeker]

25. K & R

[ScreamingMeemie]

30. ...and I respond with a Merry Christmas to your Meta....

I think you are a fine person; I just don't don't ascribe to your "group think, can do no wrong" views. Feet to the fire, criticism when criticism is due (and there have been times when it is SUPER due) is what I believe in. Sorry, but I don't want to sound like a Republican Bush backer.

[Phlem]

46. +10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Merry Christmas.

[uponit7771]

68. Then be contrayrian when it doesn't call for it? That's a lot of what I see, heavily caveated

... negatives statements about Obama...

That's why it's hard to take people who criticize without giving whole story etc the benefit of the doubt

[Bobbie Jo]

70. This. nt

[BlueCaliDem]

87. ^^^This!^^^ eom

[Hissyspit]

135. The OP does plenty of that. nt

[Cali_Democrat]

141. Remember when you tried to pimp Jonathan Turley on DU?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4525334

Now he's been hired by the GOP to lead their lawsuit against Obama...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014946818

I've had you pegged for quite sometime, much to your chagrin.

[Hissyspit]

143. I've called you out on plenty of falsities you've posted.

You think you are shaming me or something? Really?

Stop with your slander tactics. Everybody can go to the link and clearly see I wasn't "pimping" Jonathan Turley.

The fact that you think that you've "pegged" me as if I'm some kind of troll shows the level of your discourse.

You have a Merry Christmas, too.

[Cali_Democrat]

145. You brought up Turley even after he advocated for the impeachment of Clinton

Your agenda is clear and the fact that the GOP is now using him against Obama only confirms what I already knew to be true...about both him and you.

Had you listened to me and the other poster in the thread, you would have realized it was a mistake to pimp Turley.

Now the GOP has hired him to lead the lawsuit against Obama.

You just can't make this shit up.

[Hissyspit]

146. Just stop it.

Its pathetic.

That's a logical fallacy. And by the way, your OP is an "if one-then all" fallacy.

"This Obama-critical OP is ridiculous, therefore all Obama-critical OPs are ridiculous."

Fallacies and personal attack. Just stop.

[Cali_Democrat]

147. You probably shouldn't have even replied to this thread and tried to call me out

You would have saved yourself the embarrassment.

But thanks for kicking my thread...

[Hissyspit]

148. I had every right to respond to that person.

[Cali_Democrat]

149. Of course....you were in the Christmas spirit as you tried to call me out

Then I was forced to respond....

[Hissyspit]

150. I didn't call you out.

I pointed out the contradiction in the poster's point.

[Cali_Democrat]

152. "The OP does plenty of that"

Clearly you were referring to me personally...you being in the Christmas spirit and all....

Next time stick to the subject instead of personal attacks and call outs.

You could even save yourself embarrassment.

[Bobbie Jo]

151. Yeah but

It was a backhanded swipe at the OP.

Thing is, if you're gonna dish it out be prepared to have some of it flung right back at you.

[Hissyspit]

193. It was factually correct and made an important point.

And, no, I did not have flung back at me what was dished out.

[Bobbie Jo]

202. It was your opinion. nt

[TreasonousBastard]

37. And to think I almost posted in that thread...

but enough people gave him the message.

Did anyone else notice how he kept up with his argument no matter what facts were thrown back at him? I figure there's a reason for that, and it has nothing to do with being a loyal Democrat.

[Cha]

127. "Facts?" He don't need no stinkin' facts! but, he did "O'bummer" himself right out of his own

disingenuous thread again.. second one in two days.

[WillTwain]

200. Fact: He did not twist arms enough to pass a minimum wage increase. Fact.

[Cha]

208. Oh, you're whining because President Obama.. and that's "Obama" did not make the rw do what he

wanted. Yeah, well you can whine 24/7 and they're not going to pass minimum wage.

[Bobbie Jo]

210. but, but, but...

he didn't even tryyyy.

[Cha]

211. Because the poster is clairvoyant? LOL

[Phlem]

48. .....

right so I can't criticize him for this?

http://www.commondreams.org/news/2014/12/23/obama-hires-former-keystone-xl-lobbyist-senate-liaison-because-its-public-interest

Funny how people pay attention to only one side of the story and call it done.

[Marr]

51. I can't take many of the defenders of Obama seriously.

There are plenty of very legitimate criticisms of the Obama Administration. I agree that the minimum wage issue isn't one of them, considering the Congress he's had to work with, but having said that...

I think you're just a mirror image of the problem you're complaining about. You're citing one criticism and using it to dismiss all criticism of Obama on DU.

[840high]

94. ....

[L0oniX]

191. It will be interesting to see what happens to them when Obama is out of office.

[Capt. Obvious]

244. Putting the finishing touches on Mt. Rushmore?

[SidDithers]

54. DU rec for pissing off all the right people...nt

Sid

[ismnotwasm]

75. Heh.

[Number23]

99. Noticed that too, did ya?

[lpbk2713]

55. I read a few replies in "another" OP.

I find it hard to believe some people are taking it so
personally that they haven't received their pony yet.

[MineralMan]

57. I can't argue with you about this at all. K&R

[calimary]

64. Nobody's gonna see me criticizing our President.

I think he's doing great. I think history will be far kinder to him than the haters are. He'll be a towering figure in American history. And they'll always be nobodies.

Besides, just stop and consider where we'd be under a President McCain (and VP palin !!! or President romney and VP paul ryan ). The very idea makes me nauseous!

[Tarheel_Dem]

69. You'd think Discussionist would be enuf for them, but they get to have the whole internet.

You've got the GOP on one side lying about this president, and the "internet liberals" lying about him on the other. It seems very coordinated to me. DU has become the intersection for Hamsherites who adore Grover Norquist. FireBagLake.

[JonLP24]

76. You'll never see a complaint from me regarding the minimum wage as far as Obama is concerned

Advocating for economic policies that favor the middle class doesn't seem to problem area from him. My only complaints is he opens the discussion by offering polices they favor right away. You move the 'middle ground' negotiating like that. Also mainstream Democrats seem to go overboard when it comes to the payroll tax cut which thankfully I haven't heard much talk lately.

[Phlem]

78. That's the issue isn't it?

Obama says a lot of pretty things, the right blocks everything, and if there is any end result it's usually favoring the right. Then we berate anyone critical of Obama. Funny how Republican obstruction gives him the perfect excuse for not getting anything done.

If that's how I was at work, I'd be fired immediately, cause in the real world, employers want no excuses they want results that favor their bottom line, not the competitors.

[JonLP24]

95. The things that were blocked or things were the legislative math didn't work I don't fault him over

Joe Lieberman & Bill Nelson were threatening to filibuster a public option. The thing that bothers me most about ACA is the mandate, I'm not sure what led to the change but the argument for it is an economic fallacy -- uninsured driving up costs for the insured.

This works under the assumption they would be offering lower prices if that wasn't a factor. Price raises only work if people still purchase the insurance, monopolies are the bigger problem. A lot of states have only Blue Cross or Blue Shield (options not under an employee health plan) several states only have 1 option. This is why premiums are high. A mandate is anti-competitive, why would private insurances lower prices now that people are required to purchase private insurance.

"Gaming the system" by waiting until they get sick is actually a reason the cost on the system is lower. Really it boils down to this, the private insurance monopolies have the bargaining power so they can say things like well if we're to offer a wider range of services & cover pre-existing conditions we want a mandate but the federal government has the power. It is another thing to adopt their arguments.

Health insurers don't like the already sick because of the high variable of costs, with a mandate the hits they take will be subsidized by the healthy, young who rarely go to the hospital paying, the ones currently "gaming the system". The consumers health insurance companies covet.

My criticisms are over things he does have control, the mandate was one of many things Obama had a troubling change of opinion on.

[Phlem]

103. I hear ya bud.

"This works under the assumption they would be offering lower prices if that wasn't a factor. Price raises only work if people still purchase the insurance, monopolies are the bigger problem. A lot of states have only Blue Cross or Blue Shield (options not under an employee health plan) several states only have 1 option. This is why premiums are high. A mandate is anti-competitive, why would private insurances lower prices now that people are required to purchase private insurance."

The other option to this is they could go under unless they become more competitive or forgoing that, just serve niche areas like the super wealthy or any other vacuum that can't be filled. My wife and I used to make a healthy breakfast choice that we created and self marketed. Some of the Premier Exclusive Hospital/Wellness establishments had money to burn on our products. There's a lot we don't know that the rich take for granted. You would be surprised.

"My criticisms are over things he does have control, the mandate was one of many things Obama had a troubling change of opinion on."

He has more power at his disposal than he takes advantage of. Remember that he is still beholden to his big donors like the Pharmaceutical and Banking Industries. Right now Elizabeth Warren is beating Hillary Clinton over the head with the bully pulpit and sincere liberal solutions, not 3rd way slight of hand. She's beating her up by just telling the truth and making connections that some voters would never realize.

I'm a fan of the scientific method and some...a lot of things don't add up when the third way speaks.

[JoePhilly]

79. He gets all the blame, and no credit around here.

But don't dare claim some of them are demanding ponies.

Skip ponies ... some of them are demanding unicorns.

[BlueCaliDem]

84. And Republicans continue to get a pass. Uneffingbelievable.

Skip ponies ... some of them are demanding unicorns.

With lots and LOTS of fairy dust. Nothing less.

[cui bono]

156. Not on DU they're not. n/t

[madokie]

86. If that thread that you refer to

has not been removed yet it sure should be. It wasn't for discussion it was for putting this President down

In my humble opinion that is

[Cha]

129. Oh, you mean just because the OP got a HIDE for calling the President "O'Bummer"? Nah, no

ODS goin' on there.

madokie

[TBF]

88. Yet you spend hours defending

said criticisms ... if progressives here are so out of touch why bother?

[Cha]

130. Cali's OP was spot on. Glad we have Cali on board here at DU fighting back against the disingenuous

bullshite.

[TBF]

174. You didn't answer the question -

and neither did Cali.

[blkmusclmachine]

89. 11 dimenions of excuses.

"The buck stops here."

[Phlem]

113. Amen Brother.

He wanted the job, he got it. Now we're supposed to feel sorry for him cause he can't do it or gets obstructed. Or better yet, let's beat down every democrat that doesn't have the warm and fuzzy's for his lack of understanding of the situation HE was getting in.
Holy Fuck Really!?!?!?!?!?

You know what I would like, some fucking attempt of critical thinking by the base, cause you know, he's good when he retires. We'll still be fucked.

Obstructionism from Republicans, say it isn't so!

Jeeeeeezzzzzzuuuuuuuzzzzzzz!

[geek tragedy]

128. No, we just ask that criticism be rational.

President Obama is not the reason minimum wage hasn't increased. Congress is.

Intelligent people understand this.

[cui bono]

157. No, you try to twist people's words and define them as Paulbots and such

when they said nothing at all close to what you claim they've said. I've been on the receiving end of your ridiculous stretches at least twice and you were never able to substantiate your claims.

I don't know about the thread being referenced her but I can tell you that you absolutely do not "just ask that criticism be rational", you ask that it be squashed.

[Phlem]

216. Rational!?

Did you read what you wrote me and contrast that with what I said?

Better yet did you read what I replied to? blkmusclmachine stated "11 dimensions of excuses."

Ridiculous

[geek tragedy]

221. Treating Republican control of Congress as nothing but

an 'excuse' is not rational criticism when the subject is legislation.

Congress has the power to pass legislation , not the President. Adults understand this.

[Phlem]

223. Well if your an adult then I'm a freaking mummy.

Dude, yammer all you want. You have no insight into the kind of life I've had and what I know to be true. Adults are the most untrustworthy beasts I've ever known.

"Treating Republican control of Congress as nothing but an 'excuse' is not rational criticism when the subject is legislation. Congress has the power to pass legislation , not the President. Adults understand this."

Are you kidding me with this!? Seriously, you think your talking to someone who doesn't understand this? Your losing the argument if you think this is true, but like I said, flying pigs and rainbows.

[geek tragedy]

224. You have yet to offer a single coherent, rational reason

for people to blame Obama for Congress's refusal to increase the minimum wage.

Your feelings lead you in this direction, but they are not a rational argument.

[Phlem]

226. I'm sorry bud but I

live in Washington State where the min. in Seattle and SeaTac airport have been raised to $ 15 an hour. We elected a Socialist for Seattle as one of the Seattle City Council of whom championed this initiative. So your telling me Obama can't match this? He could at least mention it in one of his "Beautiful" speeches.

[geek tragedy]

227. He has mentioned it in his speeches--not his fault

you complain without learning the facts.

Your argument about Washington state is completely incoherent. The governor and mayors there didn't enact it, their legislative branch did. You're disproving your own silly little argument.

[Phlem]

230. yep, I should not have wasted my time. I get this same

reaction from my non critical thinking Republican family members.

Buh By!

[Phlem]

229. OK Chief

since your not getting what I'm saying.

"You have yet to offer a single coherent, rational reason for people to blame Obama for Congress's refusal to increase the minimum wage."

HE"S NOT TRYING HARD ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GOT IT!!??!!??

This excuse bullshit is old. In the "REAL WORLD" my employers could care less about excuses and only want results, else I'm FUCKING FIRED!

THE PRES IS AN EMPLOYEE!!!

GET IT NOW!!!????

[geek tragedy]

231. You are espousing the Green Lantern theory

of politics--that any barrier or obstacle can be overcome by sheer force of will if a President wants it badly enough.

Conversely, under your theory, every imperfect or unrealized policy change can be attributed to lack of effort and dedication.

To call this view irrational and misinformed would be kind.

Congress is a co-equal branch with the sole ability to enact legislation. Its members are chosen in elections by the American people. Presidents do not have magical ability to bend Congress to their will.

I suggest you take a more mature approach to thinking about how government works.

[Phlem]

232. No That Is Not what I said.

your just making things up now but go on, it's great study material. Merry Christmas, Santa's close I hope your not on the naughty list!

[geek tragedy]

233. You said the problem was that Obama wasn't trying hard enough.

Nowhere do you even contemplate the FACT that Republicans will not vote like Democrats, no matter what the President does.

[Phlem]

234. #128

and in case the fucking number changes again here's my post:

He wanted the job, he got it. Now we're supposed to feel sorry for him cause he can't do it or gets obstructed. Or better yet, let's beat down every democrat that doesn't have the warm and fuzzy's for his lack of understanding of the situation HE was getting in.
Holy Fuck Really!?!?!?!?!?

You know what I would like, some fucking attempt of critical thinking by the base, cause you know, he's good when he retires. We'll still be fucked.

Obstructionism from Republicans, say it isn't so!

Jeeeeeezzzzzzuuuuuuuzzzzzzz!

[BainsBane]

137. No, but one expects adults to understand basic civics.

Slogans like the "buck stops here" are meaningless. You could have your ideal president and it wouldn't matter because congress makes laws.

[m-lekktor]

163. so , according to "basic civics", the president isn't

responsible for any laws? so those president obama accomplishments "lists" everybody posts are, in reality, congress' accomplishments and not his?

i guess Harry Truman, the originator of the comment "the buck stops here", begs to differ.

[BainsBane]

206. In reality

The president is not Santa Claus. The extent to which some vest all blame and hope in a president shows no understanding of the way in which our political system works. The president is responsible for what he can do within the limits of his office. A lot of people here blame Obama for everything while looking to a future presidential candidate, like Warren, as a savior--a messiah. As a result, they will always complain because no president fulfills their wishes. Given that most of these people are not young, I can only imagine they have been angry at politicians their entire lives. Since they prefer complaining to working to bring about change--which is most effective at the local level rather than through the presidency, I can only assume they derive some satisfaction from their continual state of angst. Most of them seem to think themselves more leftier than everyone else, and seem to take pleasure in feeling themselves superior to the rest of Americans. Yet on issues, there is no evidence of their supposed leftism. I've had a number respond to Marxist analysis by calling me "third way" or libertarian, which reveals an astounding provincialism and lack of familiarity of leftist ideology and theory.

One of the more absurd responses was to an OP I posted on Marxism, in which a couple of posters came along and decided the whole thing was a defense of Hillary Clinton, when in fact I mentioned her no where. That kind of trivialization of politics and leftism is mind boggling. It is as though they insist on reducing everything to the lowest common denominator. Therefore I leave them to their naval gazing.

[m-lekktor]

164. let me add i guess we "adults" shouldn't have blamed Bush

for all that horrid crap prior to the Obama presidency since it all must have been congresses doing!! DAMN i wish i hadn't been a civics illiterate until i read your post!!

[Number23]

100. For alot of us, it's been that way for a long time.

[Autumn]

101. A lot of OPs are hard to take serious.

[Cha]

106. Too many are so dripping with venom.. I take them for what they're worth. There was also

a thread yesterday where the OP was saying the President wouldn't raise taxes on the rich..

Obama's budget: Help for workers, taxes for the rich

"President Obama on Tuesday released a nearly $4 trillion budget proposal for 2015 that includes more generous tax breaks for working families while scaling back breaks for the rich."

snip//

"But the plan also features a $56 billion growth and investment package that includes money for universal pre-K, infrastructure and job training. Obama proposes to pay for those initiatives through additional spending restraint and increased revenue."

MOre..
http://money.cnn.com/2014/03/04/pf/taxes/obama-budget-taxes/

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5998998

[Phlem]

107. "Too many are so dripping with venom"

[Ykcutnek]

120. People who are dense enough to believe that shit aren't worth $0.50 an hour. nt

[project_bluebook]

138. Obama has had to endure the worst GOP attack in history

They even planned it the night of his Inauguration. They compared it to Taliban tactics. They took advantage of his willingness to compromise, is political naivety, his humanity. These political sociopaths will do what ever it takes to stop him. Though he should have went medieval on these bastards from day one I don't blame him for what could have been, I put full blame on the Godless, fascist republican party.

[Cha]

142. Mahalo project_bluebook

[TheKentuckian]

195. They are the worse and pretending they aren't and willfully trying to meet dead wrong somewhere in

the middle is stupid, delusional, dangerous, and too unbelievable to give any credibility to at all. Further, even if you did believe that bullshit, by the summer of 2009 it was well beyond obvious that that stuff wasn't going to work and the pursuit of it could only invite defeat and cycles of surrender.

I don't buy it, look at the appointments. Even if true, it is still irresponsible and absurd so I still don't buy it. He isn't responsible for TeaPubliKlan wickedness but he is responsible for what he does and doesn't do as well as for encouraging the jackals by baring his throat for them and failing to repudiate their lies and failed ideology.

[Phlem]

217. Spot on.

[obxhead]

159. your argument has some validity, but not much.

Obama is trying to fast track the tpp which will finish off production in the US. He and his friends will get rich by flushing the rest of the US workforce down the toilet.

But hell, he got those girls a puppy. Best president ever!

[99Forever]

161. Oh my.

Because, of course...

One thread, by one person on a message board, defines an entire point of view for everyone who doesn't think exactly like you do!

Holy crap, you're on to us.

[harun]

162. If Obama was out advocating for Progressive causes I would be with you on this.

But I don't see it.

His Progressive success's:
Cuba = win
Gov't running student financial aid (part of ACA) = win
ACA pre-existing conditions BS gone = win
Speech in Egypt = win

Some help with high speed rail.

[BeanMusical]

165. This thread should come with a BOG warning despite being in GD.

[geek tragedy]

171. U mad bro? nt

[BeanMusical]

199. Nope. Was just making a suggestion.

Happy hollidays!

[Bobbie Jo]

175. It comes with a "trash" option.

Try it.

Kick.

[BeanMusical]

198. So BOG = Trash. Got it.

[Bobbie Jo]

203. Um, okay.

Whatever floats your boat, partner.

Kick

[Cha]

242. I think he was trying to say that he doesn't appreciate President Obama supporters.. And, I say..

"get in line". Rofl Oh, and who gives a ****?

Bobbie Jo

[Bobbie Jo]

243. lol

Last edited Fri Dec 26, 2014, 10:53 AM - Edit history (1)

Oh I know, I just didnt find the 3rd grade humor especially clever.

Who gives a ****, indeed!

Back at ya, Cha!

[Cha]

249. But BOG!

LOL

[Phlem]

218. excellent suggestion!

[Doctor_J]

222. a lot of those in GD lately

I may have to at last ignore some posters

[raindaddy]

177. Then you and I are living in different worlds!

In the world I live in, a Democratic president lobbying congress for a bill that allows too big to fail banks to make risky investments using taxpayer-backed money a few years after they crushed the middle class economy doing just that deserves criticism.

[840high]

237. You bet he does.

[True Blue Door]

187. Don't you see - he's not WISHING hard enough!!1!

[dawg]

194. I don't always criticize President Obama, but when I do ...

I criticize him for something he at least has *some* degree of control over.

Stay thirsty, my friends.

[Rex]

196. Totally agree and I would expand that to some usernames in general on any topic.

The way they run around trashing DU and the Democratic party every chance they get, hard to believe they are not trolls. Someone that only posts negative articles over and over about the POTUS or the party is in the wrong place imo. I do think criticism has its place and it is one major thing we do that the GOP will never do. Yet there is a line between complaining and concern trolling.

[Phlem]

219. ....

Thing is his hands aren't completely tied behind his back, there have been situations where he could have chosen better. Let's go all the way back early in his presidency when he and Rahm were throwing the left under the bus on Fox even. NOT a good choice.

And the rest is history. Leaning across the isle for a punch in the face, NOT a good choice. Bailing out bankers, Not a good choice etc... But hey, go on with your pretty rainbows and flying pigs cause every thing is just gonna be alright huh.

No worries here! Everybody move along.

[Doctor_J]

220. But the swooning worship has all but killed the party

Those like yourself who cheer for heritage care, drone murder, austerity, extension of the Bush tax cuts, continued war in the middle east, failure to prosecute Bush and Cheney, TPP, and the rest of the republican policies pushed by the president, have completely run off millions of hopeful new voters from 2008. And then you pile on by calling them racists. After they voted him into office.

My advice would be to try to develop some actual principles by which you want to live your life, then stick with them. If you believe in the things I mentioned above, I'd say that you're closer in ideology to Bush or Romney than to Sanders or Grayson, and should vote accordingly. Regardless, calling those who disagree with the policies I listed above racists is not helping the president, the party, or yourself.

[840high]

238. ...^ that

[delrem]

240. 0-7 to leave your post alone.

The verdict: truth sometimes hurts.

[Atman]

245. It makes it difficult to carry on any rational conversation

If I hear someone tell me again that all liberals "worship" Obama or view him as the "The Messiah," based upon the general swooning of the apologencia, I'm gonna hurl. I don't "worship" anyone, quite frankly, and certainly not the President. It does not of any favors to turn a blind eye to the things we believe Obama has done wrong all in the name of party unity. Remember, that's why we couldn't stand righties under BushCo. I'd prefer to prove myself better than that, not just this year's shiny new model.

BTW, I was on that jury, and was actually surprised at the 0-7 result. I would have guessed it to go the other way, with me being one of the outliers to leave it. Re-affirms my faith that DUers, for the most part, are pretty reasonable people who understand the complexities of politics, and are not just lock-step Fox-Watching boot lickers.

[MADem]

251. Exactly--when he starts vetoing those proposals for a fifteen or twenty dollar federal minimum wage,

THAT's when you blame the brother in the White House!

But of course, that will never happen!

These alarm-raisers will BLAME OBAMA!!!!!!!!!! for everything--laws that don't get passed, appointments that don't get made, you name it--and they will give The Worst Congress In The History Of The World a complete and total pass.

This is what happens when civics is no longer taught in public schools. Worse, they couldn't even write their ill-thought-out complaints in cursive if they lacked a keyboard...



Consider the source--this is all you can do.

I wish they'd work harder on electing good Democrats to state and federal legislatures, at least as hard as they work trying to destroy this website with utter nonsense that makes the rest of us look, well, foolish!