What You Can Do if You're a 17-Year-Old White Male without Getting Shot by Police

[MineralMan]

Last edited Tue Nov 25, 2014, 03:40 PM - Edit history (1)

You can steal some cigars from a convenience store.
You can be stopped by the police for almost anything.
You can drive slowly through the wealthiest neighborhood in town.
You can drink too much and get rowdy with your friends.
You can get drunk and get into a fight with someone.
If you're a high school athlete, you can sexually assault someone.
You can walk down the middle of the street.
You can be out after midnight on foot.
You can carry a baggie of weed.
You can sell a baggie of weed to someone.
You can hang out with any number of your friends.
You can get thrown out of a bar for fake ID.
You can have sex with the police chief's daughter and get caught.
You can have sex with the mayor's son and get caught.
You can listen to loud hip-hop music in your car.
You can insult a cop. You shouldn't, but the cop won't shoot you.
You can run away from a cop who tells you to stop. He'll chase you, maybe, but won't shoot you.
ETA: Walk down a residential street wearing a hoodie.

See, the thing is that you're a white kid, and cops almost never shoot white kids. They might arrest you or even rough you up a little, but they won't shoot you unless you do something really stupid like point a gun at them. They won't, because the community will react badly to that and the cop will get fired or something.

Now, if you're a 17-year-old black kid, and you do any of those things, you're risking your life. Doesn't sound fair, does it? It's not. It's official racism at work. It's not your fault. It's the fault of the community. That should change, but don't hold your breath.

[MineralMan]

4. That depends. If the description is of a

medium-sized white guy, under 20, you won't get stopped by the police officer. See, there are so many young white guys around who don't commit crimes. He'll want a better description, so he won't stop you in the first place.

If, on the other hand, you're a young, medium-sized black guy, and the description is, "It was a black guy, you know, medium-build and young," then the cop will stop you, assume you are guilty, and kill you if you resist being arrested, or maybe even if you don't. Because, you know, every black guy is probably a robbery suspect, anyhow.

That's the difference.

[Cracklin Charlie]

81. Is it just me...

Or does anyone else feel the urge to put their hands up when they see a cop?

I stopped at a convenience store last night to get a gatorade, and when I came out, I walked past a cop. I just felt an almost overwhelming urge to put my hands in the air. He wasn't threatening or anything, and I am an old white lady, not a young black man. Old lady just kept walkin' with hands down.

It was kinda strange.

[MineralMan]

83. No. No urge to put my hands up. But, I'm an old white guy.

Cops don't even look at me.

[7962]

112. Exactly. Thats what its coming to. nt

[KarenS]

126. It's not just you.

I'm an old white lady too and not long after the killing, I was near some policemen felt the urge,,,, didn't do it but wanted to.

[PsychGrad]

119. Kind of like

the police estimating 12 year old Tamir Rice as a 20 year old? It's like, they are so scary that they are all grown, ginormous men with incredible strength and criminal tendencies and histories who are one step away from beating a cop to death with their bare hands for no reason at all.

[Politicalboi]

6. Are we sure there was a call?

The owner of the store did NOT call police. So who called the cops on Brown? Is there a "real" 9-11 call. Why haven't we heard it.

[alp227]

93. A customer inside the store called police.

per a local TV station.

[Spazito]

10. Nice try, major fail...

wilson didn't know about the shoplifting or whatever has been 'reported' before stopping Michael Brown and his friend, he stopped them for walking on the street.

Your posts consistently propel this fallacy, you might try posting facts instead.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/15/tom-jackson-michael-brown_n_5682762.html

[Rex]

13. Well SOME news reported that, you know like

Foxnews...but yeah, anyone paying attention noticed the Chief of Police recant that particular lie early on.

[Politicalboi]

15. But didn't that POS last night say something

About the "call" that never happened. I'm surprised the pigs didn't charge Michael Brown for the broken eye socket he caused. Another Faux Noise story.

[Spazito]

17. It is quite amazing the fallacy that wilson knew about the incident in the store...

is so easily debunked yet some continue to post it assuming, it seems, repetition of false information will make it true.

[Whiskeytide]

22. Help me out here...

... Seriously. I had read and always took as true that Wilson did not know about the robbery.

Then I heard the DA last night say he did. That Wilson heard at least one, perhaps two calls re: the robbery. One of them gave the description that matched Brown. I also heard last night - for the first time- that Wilson actually called for an assist car before the altercation with Brown. That further seems to suggest he wasn't just hassling a couple of kids. He, presumably at least, thought he had enough of a "situation" that required more cops.

I know the PC came out with conflicting versions of Wilson's account. I understand that is suspicious... but ...

The dispatch calls are recorded and monitored. Hell, they are listened to by a lot of people who just listen in on police band radio. It would be incredibly difficult if not impossible to fake them after the fact and not have a shit storm erupt. I'm assuming the GJ heard them. I'm assuming they're timed. And we know exactly when the shooting occurred from the snap-chat recording.

So I'm looking for help from you --- how can you be so certain they didn't happen and that Wilson didn't have knowledge of the robbery? What am I missing?

And - as a prophylactic - I'm not saying Wilson was justified in the shooting. But it seems, based on the DA's summary of the evidence, that he may have been justified in the stop. That's different.

[Spazito]

24. The police chief, himself, stated wilson did not know about the incident...

"The initial contact between Darren Wilson and Mike Brown was not related to the alleged theft of cigars," Jackson said, indicating Wilson did not know Brown was a suspect in the robbery.

Jackson said Wilson was in the area "coming off a sick case," and initiated contact with Brown because the teenager was "blocking traffic, that's it."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/15/tom-jackson-michael-brown_n_5682762.html

[Whiskeytide]

25. I saw that, and I have read a couple of accounts of it...

... (incl the Huffpo article you linked). But, that's a statement given to the press 5 or 6 days after the event, and I have no way of knowing what he based it on. I think he had said a day or two earlier that it was related, and this was actually more of a retraction. I get all that. And it makes me sit up and pay attention.

But, again, I assume there was verification of the dispatch calls in the testimony and evidence given to the GJ. If there was, that tends to suggest Wilson knew something about the robbery, and the PC is just an idiot who talks unsubstantiated shit to teevee people (something I certainly have no problem believing).

[Spazito]

48. You know the old saying about assume, right?

speculation doesn't negate the words of the police chief as much as you may wish it to do so.

[Whiskeytide]

74. True. But my question still stands...

... If the dispatch tapes were faked or altered to match Wilson's story, where is the support for that claim - beyond the fact that we want to hold the police chief to his words? And this is not academic. I had lunch with two right-leaning friends today (one's an ex DA), and they are both zeroed in on this as a pretty significant fact. I'd like to have a better response than "but the police chief said...".

[Spazito]

75. Your question is better directed toward the chief, the person who made the statements...

I look forward to your post iterating his response to your query.

[Whiskeytide]

76. OK. I just wanted to get your...

... factual basis for your statement that Wilson didn't know about the robbery when he stopped Brown. The chief said - in a television interview days after the shooting - that Wilson said he didn't stop Brown because he suspected him of the robbery. We know that. But there are dispatch tapes that contradict that statement by the chief, and that seems like better evidence to me. For that reason I would say the chief was wrong when he made that statement, so I discount it. People say things that are wrong all the time, especially when they are saying what someone else said. Wilson now says he did know about the robbery, and that Brown fit the description on the radio call. If you know of anything else that seems to suggest that Wilson had not heard the radio calls or otherwise didn't know - besides the fact that the chief said so - that's what I'm looking for.

[Spazito]

77. LOL, discount away... n/t

[thesquanderer]

79. People always tend to believe the statements that support their view...

...and be skeptical of the ones that don't. It's called confirmation bias. And liberals are as susceptible to it as conservatives.

The point you are making is basically a good one. There are two statements that cannot both be true (Wilson knew about the robbery, Wilson did not know about the robbery). Without evidence, there's no reason to believe one over the other... except that people tend to believe the statements that fit their preconceived ideas.

That said, your post centers on whether or not there was a 911 call, and you're right, it should be easy to prove there was one. However--and I could be wrong--I don't think that's actually in dispute. My understanding was that there definitely was a 911 call, and the question is whether or not Wilson knew about it. Nobody--not even Wilson--suggests that Wilson had been dispatched to address that 911 call. He claims he heard chatter on the radio about others being dispatched for it. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't, and that's not something so easy to provide clear evidence of. (Of course, even if he did, that doesn't mean his actions were justified.) The most that could be provided to support his story would be a tape of the precinct dispatching *someone* to address that 911 call. And if that were recorded, I would think they would want to release it, though I'm not sure dispatch broadcasts are necessarily recorded (911 calls are). But assuming they are recorded, even if they produce such a recording, it doesn't prove that he heard it, but it would at least add some support.

[rudolph the red]

57. The DA said last night that Darren Wilson realized Mike Brown was the suspect

in the alleged theft of cigars after he had already stopped him for walking in the middle of the road.

[Spazito]

61. So the police chief was lying and the prosecutor was telling the truth?

The fact you believe this prosecutor in face of the facts stated by the police chief himself says it all.

[rudolph the red]

63. Or maybe he mispoke.

It's true that Mike Brown was stopped for another reason (walking in the middle of the road), but it may also be true that Wilson saw the yellow socks and the swishers and made the connection after stopping him.

[Spazito]

64. Or maybe the prosecutor deliberately "mispoke"...

given his history and the bizarre press conference last night, misspeaking seems to be common with him.

[rudolph the red]

65. That's possible also, but I think that you are

taking the police chief's quote out of context. He was asked if Wilson stopped Brown because he had identified him as a suspect in the robbery, he didn't.

[Spazito]

66. I provided the words of the police chief in my previous post...

and I watched the press conference in which the police chief stated exactly what was quoted in the article. There was no quoting him "out of context" at all.

"The initial contact between Darren Wilson and Mike Brown was not related to the alleged theft of cigars," Jackson said, indicating Wilson did not know Brown was a suspect in the robbery.

Jackson said Wilson was in the area "coming off a sick case," and initiated contact with Brown because the teenager was "blocking traffic, that's it."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/15/tom-jackson-michael-brown_n_5682762.html

[rudolph the red]

69. That matches exactly what the DA said last night

"The initial contact between Darren Wilson and Mike Brown was not related to the alleged theft of cigars," Jackson said, indicating Wilson did not know Brown was a suspect in the robbery.

Wilson became aware that Brown was the robbery suspect after he stopped him for a completely different reason.

[Spazito]

70. You can continue to find fault with the facts presented to you...

as it seems you are determined to do. The facts, the words of the police chief speak for themselves.

[BobbyBoring]

67. if you think about it

No one knew about the robbery until the video was released that following Friday.
The whole thing is kind of a blur, but I remember there being a suspicious reason for the video being released when it was.

In Wilson's testimony, he states that Michael Brown handed the stolen cigars to his friend. That makes about as much sense as everything else that Wilson said. None.

[Rex]

11. Yet that turned out to be a total lie.

Imagine that.

[Maedhros]

28. People are not upset about shots that may have been fired during the alleged assault.

If Brown was actually trying to wrestle away the officer's firearm, then the officer was within his rights to fire his weapon at Brown.

However, once Brown fled the vicinity of the police car the alleged assault ended. The officer was no longer in danger, thus shooting Brown after he fled is not within his rights.

You seem to be arguing for punitive vengeance - because Brown may have assaulted the officer, then after the fact the officer has the right to kill Brown. That is the argument that is making people angry.

[PsychGrad]

120. Except

I honestly believe that Wilson grabbed at Mike Brown and then pulled his gun when Brown didn't just let himself be manhandled. I'm pretty convinced that Wilson also started to say "I'll shoot" at that time. And, I don't know why everyone keeps talking about Mike Brown's blood inside the car - if Wilson was pulling on him and such and trying to manhandle him - of course his blood was inside the car since Wilson shot him there the first time.

So, I'm doubly angry. I'm angry that Wilson even stopped them to tell them to walk on the sidewalk. If the area has as much crime as they want us to believe, I'm SURE that his "serving and protecting" was needed elsewhere far more than there at that moment in time. I'm also angry that he then backed up aggressively and INSISTED that they walk on the sidewalk - I mean - ever heard of "pick your battles" ffs? And I'm angry that he slammed his door into Mike Brown and Dorian Johnson - and yes, I believe that is how that played out. That just makes so much more damn sense than - just-robbed-a-store-and-committed-assault-Brown-attacking-a-police-officer-for-being-an-asshole-and-tried-to-take-his-gun-and-commit-187-on-a-mother-fucking-cop story that people are trying to feed us.

Or, is that just me?

[ScreamingMeemie]

31. I'm sorry, but even if this were exactly what happened, my about-to-be-17 white son

would not have been shot or killed. Nope.

[Darb]

49. Stop carrying that corrupt DA's water.

Do you have even a single tiny inkling of how stupid it is to say "then assault a police officer"?

It defies logic that Brown would do what would surely lead to his death (remember, he is a black kid living among a known racist police force) by attacking a police officer. You cannot really believe that his whole contrived, pathetically transparent, perfectly formatted to bamboozle racist whites, "story" is even remotely believable.

If so, you've got issues. You should join the Ferguson Police Department, you would fit right in.

[heaven05]

68. wilson at the time

of the 'incident' DID NOT KNOW of the alleged robbery, he said as much. Quit trying to defend the already putrid murderer you're implying is innocent of all charges with a lie.

[world wide wally]

72. So, petty theft is justification for shooting someone?

[Kelvin Mace]

2. Hell, if your a white sports fan

you can burn the fucking city down when your team wins/loses the "big game" and the police never shoot you.

[MineralMan]

9. Yes, that's true. You know...youthful spirit and all.

You might get tear-gassed, though, and told to knock that shit off.

[noiretextatique]

3. you carry a BB gun...or a real one eom

[MineralMan]

5. I almost included that one, too, but it's less

secure, really. If you have a gun that looks real, you might get shot, even if you're a white kid. Cops are afraid of guns. They're scary and shit.

[noiretextatique]

14. that may be the case now with a BB gun

but not so with a real one. open carry assholes do it all the time.

[MineralMan]

16. 17 year olds don't.

I don't think that's legal anywhere. However, I remember carrying a .22 rifle around when I was 14. Nobody seemed to notice at all. Of course, I was a skinny white kid, and lots of skinny white kids had .22s in my town.

[noiretextatique]

26. sorry...this guy is 18,, not 17

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/08/01/teens-open-carry-encounter-with-cops-caught-on-video-police-treat-open-carry-like-youre-a-criminal-until-proven-innocent/?siteID=XdSn0e3h3.k-TiZ.owmhrC971UlfVVckXw

a lot of Duers posted about carrying BB guns and real guns, and the cops never bothered them. not in urban areas of course.

[Erose999]

7. My White friends and I did all those things (except the sexual assault) and more and lived to tell

about it. In the South no less, where guns outnumber people by a ratio of about 10:1.

[mb999]

8. If you're a white male you can get away with pointing guns at federal agents

It's just considered expressing your constitutional rights.

[MineralMan]

12. That's true if there are enough of you with guns, for sure.

Especially if the federal agents aren't well armed and in large numbers.

[christx30]

108. Yeah, that didn't help the Branch Davidians. n/t

[MineralMan]

109. Not at all the same thing as I'm talking about.

Not even close. This thread is not about that at all.

[christx30]

110. You mentioned a bunch of people with guns

stopping the government from doing something. I was making the point that firepower doesn't always end well.

[Nevernose]

114. Bullshit. Not even a close analogy

The ATF was trying to serve a warrant when the Branch Davidians opened fire, killing four agents and wounding sixteen others.

It was far more than "white people pointing guns": they shot twenty cops.

[christx30]

117. If someone at Bundy's ranch had opened fire,

it would be almost exactly the same thing. Yes, it was a court order instead of a warrant, but it's basically the same thing.

And 6 Branch Davidians were killed in that raid.

[BklnDem75]

18. You can have your medical alert device go off...

and live through the response.


http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/03/justice/new-york-chamberlain-death/

[MineralMan]

19. Yes. You can have that happen, too,

but it's unusual for a 17-year-old to have one of those.

[BklnDem75]

23. lol...

That's true. Got lost in the list.

[1StrongBlackMan]

20. Yep ...

You can be stopped by the police for almost anything.

Including being stopped for having a gun.

ETA:

Now, if you're a 17-year-old black kid, and you do any of those things, you're risking your life. Doesn't sound fair, does it? It's not. It's official racism at work. It's not your fault. It's the fault of the community. That should change, but don't hold your breath.

You should edit that because, given time, someone here will interpret that to mean white teenager should be getting shot by police!

[MineralMan]

21. Yup. It's an amazing double standard.

One which desperately needs to be changed.

[gordianot]

27. When stopped ask police for a ride home.

Tell them you do not feel well and are confused. Might work if you do not have too much melanin in your skin.

[TBF]

29. And if you're 18 & belong to a fraternity

we have another whole list of things ...

You can drink when you're under 21
You can throw big parties in your house
You can gang rape women (any color)

[Iamthetruth]

30. Such bullshit

If what was said is true, if a 17 year old kid grabbed a cops gun, chances are he would be shot. Keep your head in the sand.

[Hekate]

33. That part is likely untrue, since so much of the rest of the narrative is untrue

[MineralMan]

34. I did not include grabbing a cop's gun in my list.

So, I'm not sure exactly what you're talking about. BTW, the truth is not a person. It is a concept. So, I disagree with your name on its face.

[Darb]

52. It's not even remotely true. It defies logic.

No surprise you are providing cover to this travesty of justice.

No surprise at all.

[Iamthetruth]

78. Providing cover?

Really, I wanted an indictment as much as anyone but truth be told, if they could not get an indite ent, there would be zero chances for a guilty verdict with probable doubt.

[heaven05]

71. who's got their head in the sand?

sad....geez

[haele]

123. Nope on that. My co-worker's 16-year-old grabbed for a cop's gun while stupidly drunk -

and showing off in front of his equally drunk and stupid high-school friends. Tackled to the ground by the then lone police officer and handcuffed. Spent 1 month in juvie and a year in a substance abuse program. Of course, this was 14 years ago and my co-worker's 17 year old was only medium height and a bit chunky. But the kid was also blond with blue eyes - and four days earlier, a hispanic kid was shot for being aggressively obnoxious in the local park after a spate of push and grab bicycle thefts by a local hispanic gang.
And this is Southern California. Color still does matter.

Haele

[Hekate]

32. KnR

[MineralMan]

36. Thanks.

[Hekate]

43. When I think of the shenanigans my brother pulled before his testosterone leveled off & his brain...

...kicked into gear, likewise incomplete stories from my mother about her elder brothers, it makes me wonder if any of them would have grown up at all, much less made it to old age, if our family were black or brown.

Something is rotten in this country.

[MineralMan]

60. Yes, something rotten indeed.

[UglyGreed]

35. These guys lived

[link:|

[MineralMan]

37. Yes, so they did.

In fact, they thrived. Interesting, eh?

[UglyGreed]

41. SMH

yet a 12 year old boy in Cleveland with an airsoft bb gun in a park is dead..........

[beevul]

87. Parroting a gun ban group doesn't help your case. N/T

[UglyGreed]

88. What I posted was the picture

not the group SMH never mind Happy Thanksgiving!!!!

[Spitfire of ATJ]

38. The clothes don't matter either. You can dress in grubbies while white and not get shot.

[MineralMan]

40. You can even wear a hoodie. If you're a young white guy, that is.

I should have included that in my list, I think. I think I'll go back and add it.

[yuiyoshida]

39. Mr. Mineralman ...

I am hazarding to guess this would not apply to me either huh.

[MineralMan]

42. Not unless you morph into a white male teenager.

OTOH, you might face other risks from the police.

[yuiyoshida]

45. Yikes...

I am staying indoors!

[MineralMan]

46. LOL!

I don't think that's necessary, really. Get outside and enjoy the fresh air. Here in Minnesota, it's too cold for that right now.

[yuiyoshida]

50. Yes, and I am in

San Francisco.. where its a nice day out, actually!


Having never had an unpleasant encounter with a Police Officer.. I guess I am pretty safe near Japantown. But I also know never to talk to them.. and avoid them if possible. I can just blend right in.. at my favorite Boba Tea spot!

[MineralMan]

54. I love San Francisco!

I lived in California most of my 69 years. I've spend very much time in San Francisco, and would live there if I could. Enjoy your pleasant weather and your beautiful city!

[yuiyoshida]

58. Cool beans..

Its expensive here.. But I love it..

[workinclasszero]

44. A white kid can also walk to a store to buy some skiddles for his brother

and not get gunned down by vigilante killers who walk away from the crime scott free and have the murder weapon returned to them by the police.

[MineralMan]

47. Quite true.

Even quasi-cops can be dangerous, unless you're a white kid, it seems.

[KingCharlemagne]

51. Great post. - nt

[MineralMan]

55. Thanks!

[kairos12]

53. You can kill a bunch of people while drunk driving

and not go to jail and claim something called affluenza.

[MineralMan]

56. That too, especially if your parents are wealthy and influential.

[Erose999]

59. Even many of the white mass shooters have been appreneded without being shot by police. It says

something about our culture when more restraint is shown toward mass murderers than shoplifters.

[MineralMan]

62. What you say is true. Odd, isn't it.

All they have to do is stop, drop their weapons and raise their arms. "Hands up! Don't shoot!" only seems to work if you're a Caucasian.

[santroy79]

104. too bad Brown did none of those things

[MineralMan]

107. Did none of which things?

You're not being clear.

[Nevernose]

116. The cops in Pennsylvania

Spent housands of man hours, millions of dollars, and hundreds of law enforcement personnel to catch a guy who shot two cops. Meanwhile, in Philadelphia, hundreds of murders, most in black neighborhoods, go unsolved every year.

http://6abc.com/archive/9012903/

[heaven05]

73. great post

[MineralMan]

82. Thank you.

[Farmbrook]

84. Michael Brown DID NOT ROBBED THE STORE. Video was doctored -

The store owner confirmed that they never called the police that is why they have failed to produce the 911 tape. The police requested a video from the store hours after MB's body laid on the street. He actually paid for the cigarillos.
See
http://crooksandliars.com/2014/08/ferguson-cops-busted-new-video-seems-show

[JEFF9K]

85. Do you have statistics to back this up?

Not to be the devil's advocate but when I was in high school a 15-year-old white kid got shot and killed by the police and few people were bothered by it. Since the kid was somewhat of a troublemaker, several of the students in the high school were pleased by the event. No one asked or even cared about the color of the policeman. The community DIDN'T react badly, and the cop WASN'T fired.

A similar event occurred a few years later involving a leader of a mini-neighborhood cult. There was a small protest by cult members, but that was the extent of it. The community DIDN'T react badly, and the cop WASN'T fired.

You have listed 18 offenses. Let's see some statistics regarding the frequency of these events broken down by race and mentioning the percentage of the time the offender was shot by police.

Just keeping it real, which is, in my view, a core principal of the Democratic Party.

[MineralMan]

86. No more than you do. But this is not a sociology paper.

This is a DU post. You're welcome to refute any part of it you wish.

[MannyGoldstein]

89. K&R, dead on. nt

[MineralMan]

92. Thanks, Manny.

[loyalsister]

90. Perfect!

May I copy and share on FB? I have in mind to point out what I did not have to learn as a white kid growing up.

[MineralMan]

91. Go for it. I'd be honored.

[blkmusclmachine]

94. Plenty of white people are killed by police. Brutally murdered, on video, and the cops walk.

The system protects itself. There will be no justice from this corrupted "justice" system. We ALL have a stake in this. If we continue to roll over, it WILL only GET WORSE!

[7962]

115. AMEN to that!!!! See my post #111. We have a POLICE problem.

And when my very old, white dad; born in the late 20s and raised in south Ga, sees the Eric Garner video and says "That shit aint right", maybe more people are realizing exactly what you are saying.

[Hekate]

95. MinMan, with two 12 year olds added to the toll, I can't stop thinking about my son, your post

Things just keep coming back to me about his boyhood and the sometime-foolishness thereof as he made his way to manhood. He's 34 now and a solid citizen, but he had a chance to be a boy first.

My heart just breaks.

I hope your essay gets a deservedly wide circulation.

[MineralMan]

96. Well it was in DUs left column, whic is a first for me, I think.

[lib87]

97. You can also rob a bank and not go to jail!

And then get all the sympathy in the world because you grew up 'middle class and white'.

"Andrew Bajerski became an uncommon criminal. After a middle-class Cary upbringing, the Eagle Scout and Enloe High School graduate came within three classes of getting his chemical engineering degree at North Carolina State University...."

http://www.wral.com/cary-man-trying-to-turn-his-life-around-after-drugs-crime/14226656/

[santroy79]

98. get over it already

with the white black crap

[MineralMan]

106. I think I won't, but thanks for your suggestion.

Instead, I posted this thread.

[True Blue Door]

99. Cops are generally not very intellectual people

so common flaws of human instinct - like racial bias - become magnified into full-blown policies by their daily conduct.

A white criminal's misconduct is not attributed to their race, but a black criminal's misconduct is, so the black crook's crimes become associated in police minds with being black and vice-versa. This leads to profiling, even when there's no objective basis for it, because they see their own biased perceptions as "experience."

Even black cops do this because they may react to the wider social context rather than as individual behavior, blaming black criminals for the collective punishment that's meted out to the black community by society instead of blaming the criminals only for their own crimes and holding others accountable for unjust reactions to it.

Except in highly progressive communities, nobody bothers to train cops to be aware of bias in their own thinking and to disregard it. And even when they are, the kind of people who are attracted to that kind of profession resist questioning their instincts. They're relatively confident people who trust themselves more than scientific facts about their own behavior.

Probably some good steps to take would be to pay them a lot more so we could reasonably demand they be smarter. Have fewer of them so they have to work better with communities instead of acting like an occupying military force. And institute some kind of public ostracism rule that would allow a supermajority of community members to expel individual police officers from the force who persistently violate the public trust.

[Wella]

100. Uh, no:

Unarmed White Man Shot By Police
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/58287556-78/taylor-lake-police-salt.html.csp

Black police captain kills white Marine over racial slur:

White Parents call police for help, cops show up and kill their 18-year-old son
http://triadnc.twcnews.com/content/news/coastal/703279/boiling-spring-lakes-father-says-18-year-old-son-shot--killed-by-officer/

Unarmed white woman accidentally shot in head by police during raid
http://www.chillicothegazette.com/article/20131212/NEWS01/312120009/Officer-s-errant-shot-struck-woman-head

White man beaten by police during arrest:
http://www.cleveland.com/parma/index.ssf/2013/12/parma_police_release_dash-cam.html

Police kill 80 year old white man in meth raid (and there was no meth)
http://ktla.com/2013/10/10/widow-to-sue-over-fatal-shooting-of-husband-80-by-sheriffs-deputies/#axzz2hhs0vpGC

White father arrested for trying to pick up his kid from school

Video shows Marion corrections officer slamming (white) inmate's head into concrete wall
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/marion-corrections-officer-charged-with-beating-inmate/23423718

(White) Man dies of food allergy in Shohomish County Jail (after guards ignore his dairy allergy--guy in jail for non-violent marijuana possession.)
http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/man-dies-food-allergy-shohomish-county-jail/nbhYh/

(White) Man forced to undergo anal medical procedures because police mistakenly thought man had drugs in his anus.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/05/david-eckert-enema-colonoscopy-drugs-traffic-stop_n_4218320.html

(White) homeless man beaten to death by sadistic cops

THE POLICE ARE OUT OF CONTROL, NO MATTER WHAT YOUR COLOR IS.

(Let's stop this obsession on one case, sad as it is. The cops, in general, are behaving like criminals in many cases.)

[santroy79]

101. Nice post!!!!!

of course no response

[7962]

124. Thank you. Its a POLICE problem.

yet there is no media circus for these stories. Or the black cop/white kid stories.

[Wella]

125. Until we stop drawing lines between folks and understand that militarized policing is the issue

we go nowhere.

[7962]

129. I agree. It does nothing to further reform. nt

[ileus]

102. Only if you're not in the same area and get questioned by the LEO's

[MineralMan]

103. I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about, really.

In the same area as what? Getting questioned by LEOs is different from being shot, as well. Maybe I'm missing something in your post, but I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

[lib87]

105. Some Lives Are Valued More Than Others in This Country

For some reason pointing that out makes some people confuse reality with false equivalencies and selective hearing.

[7962]

111. Tell that to these white kids killed by black cops

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/video-shows-ala-teen-fatal-shooting-article-1.1181371
http://wreg.com/2014/11/25/salt-lake-cop-cleared-in-shooting-of-unarmed-white-man/
http://www.12newsnow.com/story/22945856/family-of-veteran-killed-by-off-duty-police-officer-still-hopes-for-justice

We have an out of control POLICE PROBLEM, regardless of race.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

127. Yes to out of control police problem, but in these 3 instances is there evidence these cops

shot these kids because they were white and because , you know, white kids are demons?

[7962]

128. No, thats the whole POINT. No evidence of that in ferguson either.

evidence of a struggle, yes. In these cases no evidence of ANY struggle.
Why is everyone so bent out of shape over Ferguson but not NYC and Eric Garner? I know there have been some protests, but THAT is a crime which is on tape as it happens. There is NO altercation with the cops by Garner. He is on the ground yet is still choked to death. Where is all the media? Why focus on ferguson and a situation where there WAS a struggle of some sort that ended in a shooting?
I'm tired of this constant need to make a racial problem out of a police problem. There's a post somewhere above that lists several cases of whites assaulted or killed by cops for no reason. And there are plenty more out there if you look.
We need to remove the immunity of police to be sued individually. We need to stop "no knock" warrants. We need to insist our cities hire better people.
ALL of this has to stop for ALL people.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

130. The entire Ferguson incident was racial; I see we have MUCH work to do

[lib87]

132. *sarcasm* Only because you're putting race into it!

If I hear that line one more time...

We definitely have a lot of work to do. If i scroll down to the comment sections for any Ferguson news stories or youtube video, I am guaranteed to read plenty of racial slurs directed at Black people, 'thug', he was a criminal, negative stereotypes, etc.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

133. I know, it is Brown's fault for being AfAm, if he wasnt there would be no race issue LOL

[7962]

134. Thats your opinion. And if it was then are the opposite cases racial too?

Were the mean black cops who shot the unarmed white kids were being racists as well? I doubt it. More likely they were just being BAD COPS. And bad cops are killing whites and blacks and hispanics for little or no reason.
And again, there was an altercation between Brown and Wilson. There was no altercation between Eric Garner and the NYPD cop who choked him to death on tape. Focus attention on THAT one.

Now my opinion could be changed regarding ferguson; I was wondering about the "anonymous" group that said they had proof of Wilson being involved with the klan. What ever became of that? If that turned out to be true, its another ball of wax.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

137. So shooting the kid those last two shots from 25 feet away in the head, if Wilson

was KKK then you are upset, but if not, then it is OK?

[7962]

138. I didnt say I was OK with it, just that the shooting itself doesnt prove racism

But if he was in the Klan, it would likely be a different story as far as race was concerned. And again, what about the black officers shooting the unarmed white kids who had done NOTHING?
My whole point is that the focus on race is a waste of time. the focus should be on all the bad cops, white AND black. Because apparently they dont really give a shit what color you are, they'll shoot you anyway.

[noiretextatique]

139. you ignore the history of white cops

Killing black people, and likely poor white people too. That has nothing to do with recent militarization.

[malaise]

113. You nailed it MineralMan

Rec

[MineralMan]

118. Thanks.

[Enthusiast]

121. K&R! This post should have hundreds of recommendations!

[SunsetDreams]

122. K&R very well said nt

[hopemountain]

131. you can beat up any woman or kid at any time

and even threaten to shoot her or the kids and the cops will help you make it look like it was her or the child's fault.


and some random kid on a high speed chase can park their car in your driveway at 2a.m. and twelve sheriff's patrol cars can pull up, lock & load and surround your home and threaten to shoot you, your baby, your dog, and your little brother when you ask them why they are there.

[JonLP24]

135. I'm not sure about that

White people have been known to be victims of questionable shootings though most of the time they have some mental illness where the cops don't know how to handle if it doesn't involve firing bullets.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/23/us/texas-amputee-shooting/

17-years-olds, it think it depends on what the cop thinks is going on. This is true for everyone in knowing only what takes place in front of them, everything else may have strong evidence but you have to rely on what other people say & evidence that is available. 17-years-old is actually the same age as when I had my first negative encounter with police & previously wondered about the possibility of being in the "wrong place at the wrong time", I was struck over how remarkably easy that can happen.

I was passionately protesting me being put into a car with head cuffs (which confused the hell out of me as it was happening) and protesting--telling the truth and was told to "shut up", I was called "stupid", an "idiot", and a "liar"--which was based on someone telling them I was with them when I wasn't though it depends on with. A 2nd witness also made me look like a liar--there may be good reasons for police to seperate and question people (to compare stories & limit their chances of getting their "stories straight&quot but I was interested in exactly what they asked and exactly the answer because "with" is true depending on the question. Was I with him when we left the apartment complex, yes. Was I with him inside the vehicle? No. I never see him drove before, was 15 at-the-time, parked a vehicle as I was walking by then asked me if I "wanted to go somewhere?" the parking the car part didn't even register to me or had any idea that he was hot right now.

I believe the second witness may have been mistaken or based on seeing me leave with him outside the complex with he was inside the car but this is an example of things taking place when I'm not around so I only know what I know, not what the cops asked or what anyone said. The first, my hunch says he outright lied saying I was with him inside the car because the cops noticed the cigarettes in my pocket that came from the same guy's house the car keys did implying that I committed burglary, I told them that he asked me if I could carry them because he was wearing basketball shorts with no pockets so he left and came back and told me that he never possessed those cigarettes. (In my head I was going "I hope we go to court, I would love to go to court because I know I'm innocent&quot

I never mention the races involved because I know this was an anamolly. In the same state this took place whites are arrested for drugs the same rate as blacks though they are stopped by police officers less. In fact, Hispanics are arrested for drugs at a lower rate than both but are pulled far more. Point is, I don't mention it because the reality of the overall situation isn't the same but there is irony involved in who the cops believed was telling the truth compared to who actually was telling the truth. Who was treated very disrespectfully contrasted to his freaking out grandma "You should be proud of him for telling the truth unlike (me)"--I think his grandma knew him better than the cops did.

Bear with me, I'm trying to best explain what I mean. I basically gave an example of scenario which of course I wasn't shot (I was on the curb, asked to stand up--cuffed, put in the police car--I was losing my mind during all this but I didn't physically do the slightest thing to give them a reason) but a year earlier, two youths--one lived 3 blocks from me were shot at a Circle K parking lot two blocks from me. They were in a stolen vehicle and they had the parking lot blocked off with police cars so they tried to drive there way out through the vehicles and the cops used that as a reason to fire and it was excessive. If the story wasn't from 2000 with the civil suit verdict (which their families lost) summer 2001 it would be easier to find. Of course that situation is different than Brown's by the are shootings that are more questionable than Brown such as shot in the back wearing handcuffs -- http://www.8newsnow.com/story/4909076/las-vegas-metro-police-shoot-and-kill-handcuffed-teen Cops weren't charged either.

My point is a lot of cops enter situations so high strung that I'm not sure a set of rules are guaranteed though you are right about the community. If the questionable shootings happened at the same rate, even the disparities in drug arrests would lead to massive pressure (which I'm sure the media would gladly help with that) to change the laws. The part about if they "reasonable" fear their lives or others are in danger which doesn't require that it is actually to be one. Just the "reasonable fear" part is necessary which is why killer cops are never charged and even one that killed someone in their custody was convicted of "manslaughter" where the judge personally knocked off the severity of the charges and the punishment and the officer is back on the force. If this was happening to white people at a similar rate you best believe there would be change.

But, if the police shot a white man in a wheelchair because he wouldn't drop a pen and wasn't charged then nobody is safe.

[Shankapotomus]

136. Mineral Man, I'm sorry, but

Why doesn't it surprise me that an older white man has figured out a way to distract from his own preferential treatment as a white person by starting a thread of racial bias just about white youth? And of course the older white population on DU eats it up because it pins the problem of preferential treatment solely on white youth and allows us older white people to play the victim and judge too for once.

Nor am I surprised how many times you've used the word "youth" and "kid" in this thread because this race based preferential treatment is clearly only reserved for white youth, right? You're motive for this thread smacks clearly of ageism and a sad attempt to transfer your own white guilt onto a smaller demographic that doesn't include you by playing the similar oppressive scolding parent. And I think it's telling that no one on DU has yet called you on it. But most of them being older parents themselves, I guess everybody has no qualms about jumping on board a good youth bashing thread.

Racial preference blindness is hardly just a white youth problem. Who do you think introduces white youth to that preferential world? But your thread paints a picture that it's the "kids" who are blind to preferential treatment when if any demographic is pushing for racial equality, it's the young.

Why are you pinning race based preferential blindness on kids? I mean, it's so easy to scold kids since they are pretty much ignorant to almost every issue. Leave kids alone. Kids are not the problem. They are not driving racial inequality. They are just the passive recipient's of the culture the older generations have created.