Six-year-old not allowed to go to restroom during non-required standardized testing

[pstokely]

http://articles.ky3.com/2012-04-17/missouri-assessment-program_31357428

"That's why, when her kindergartner told her teacher she had to go to the restroom during the test and wasn't allowed, Skidmore couldn't believe it. Her little girl couldn't hold it.

"They didn't even bother trying to clean her up or anything. She still had poop, diarrhea poop, coming out the back, up her front, down her legs," she said.

Skidmore says her daughter was forced to sit in the class for the remainder of test time, about 15 minutes, then mom was called after the test, and it was a 20-minute drive to school to pick up her daughter.

All the while, the little girl had to sit in the mess. No one bothered to clean her up, although a teacher did give her a trash bag to wrap around herself."

"Many kids right now are taking Missouri Assessment Program (MAP) tests, the state standardized testing required by law. Those tests start in third grade, but the superintendent says the reason the teacher was sticking so closely to MAP testing guidelines, even for a kindergartner, is because she was trying to simulate the stringent rules to prepare students for what's to come."

[Ikonoklast]

1. It is difficult to support teachers who would do this to a child.

Stuff like this erodes public support for their plight.

[Riftaxe]

28. As a teacher would you risk the lawsuit of

"...trying to clean her up or anything."?

Other then that, how stupid can they be not to let a child use the restroom!

[HiPointDem]

53. Teachers aren't the ones pushing the high-stakes testing (a lot of them are dead against it),

teachers aren't the ones making the "no-bathroom" rule. Teachers aren't the ones who redesign the curriculum ever couple of years, teachers aren't the ones who fund the schools, etc etc ad infinitum.

Teachers are just the ones who take the flak for everything the hidden hand does.

In this case the hidden hand is people like Bill Gates.

Why not stop supporting him?

[RKP5637]

2. "... prepare students for what's to come." I guess like sitting and shitting

in class. This is so F'ed up in so many ways it deserves no further comment, than looking like preparation for a dumbed-down authoritative dystopia.

[xchrom]

3. How is this not criminal abuse? Nt

[TBF]

5. +1 nt

[bhikkhu]

4. My kid's school have always been odd about bathroom permission

One year the kids were given a certain number of passes each month, and if you were out of passes you just didn't go. Otherwise, it was only during certain times - and definitely not during testing. Diarrhea was always been a valid reason to miss a day of school.

[Quantess]

46. Diarrhea doesn't always come with advance warnings.

It can be a sudden attack.

[Iris]

48. Especially in a high-stress situation. Like testing.

[pstokely]

50. "diarrhea is like a storm raging inside of you"

from some old commercial

[DefenseLawyer]

6. How the fuck did we get here?

Strip searches for traffic tickets, public schools for profit and a new American motto of Do What You're Told, But Look Out For Yourself. I need a drink.

[tk2kewl]

8. I know, right?

WTF

Did I completely imaging the world I grew up in?

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

11. Grad. HS '66 but when I was in 2nd or 3rd grade...

A teacher wouldn't let a girl go to the bathroom. She had raised her had and asked a couple of times, then got up and went to the teachers desk and asked again. She was again told no and she let go in front of the class then ran out of the room. The teacher then demanded of another girl who was seated in front of the class, that she clean it up. I asked and got moved out of that class. (I had a cousin in the class that bothered me, and would get me in trouble.)

[tk2kewl]

12. i do remember that my 5th grade teacher (1974)...

a giant of a man with a crew cut named Mr. Wood, told us on the 1st day of school that if anyone threw up in his class he would mop it up with their hair.

I am pretty sure he was just funnin' though, because otherwise I remember him as a gentle giant.

[DefenseLawyer]

17. I think the thing that strikes a nerve with me

Isn't so much that the teacher used such poor judgment and was so needlessly authoritarian. I spent a lot of time in detention back in the day dealing with just those kinds of teachers. The thing that's troubling is the Superintendent who not only isn't apologizing but he's defending it saying "hey, rules are rules and we're just preparing you for your lot in life. Suck it up and take the test."

[KansDem]

33. I had a teacher in 7th grade (1966-67) who wouldn't let you sharpen your pencil.

If you did, she'd take it from you and break the point off on the table in front of the class.

It was quite a ritual.

[Art_from_Ark]

52. I don't think I had any teachers in that era who were that mean

I must have been lucky-- the only real jerk of a teacher I had was in 9th grade, and that was study hall, last period, the most worthless "class" I ever had.

[leftynyc]

37. Same thing happened to me except I left

the class and went to the bathroom. I was in 4th grade. I then went to the principals office and had them call my mom who came to the school and unloaded on the teacher and the principal. She called the teacher a sadist. Mom is awesome.

[KansDem]

34. Don't forget torture is now okie-dokie

Really, though, you've raised an excellent question.

40 years ago my parents--my mom was a moderate Republican--would have been very upset with what's going on in the country today.

And my stepfather, who I suspect was a closet Marxist, would have exploded...

[progressoid]

7. Soon to be a former kindergarten teacher.

I hope.

[pstokely]

14. Probably following orders of the superintendent

nt

[FirstLight]

9. Makes me want to send this to MY school

right now I am having a battle of wills with the teacher about the stupid state testing 'practice exams'...they send home the packets, and the kids are spending 2-3 weeks prepping for the tests both in and out of class. I have never seen this much prep for state testing in my life, and it's a stupid waste of time... not to mention they want me to sign every page to PROVE he did it by himself (no cheating) Even though none of it is GRADED work, no points earned.
... i already emailed her the first of the week saying it was a ridiculous waste of time and that it was obviously about the funding, not the kids. I told her we would NOT be doing that much homework for nothing, thank you... and my kid was not to be punished... well she yelled at him all day yesterday and berated him openly in front of the class for not doing it.
so now I have 'circled the wagons'...sent another email to her asking about her behavior, and asking for the forms to be excused from the whole testing thing ... I also threw in there that we would be doing our own assignments at home for the next 2 weeks, and that she can kiss my ass...in a polite way, of course. this time i copied the superintendent and the principal on the whole conversation...and NO we DIDN'T do the homework last night either!

my mom told me to not rock the boat and that I was teaching my kids that if they don't like something, they don't have to do it.

Noooo... I am teaching my kids to have their own voice, offer alternative options and compromise, but above all else - to stand their ground and not be BULLIED by the PTB!

that last line in the OP makes my blood boil

[SATIRical]

26. Did they explain why it was worth no credit?

If it is applicable to the material being taught, it is basically just homework. If not, then their curriculum is misaligned.

[Iris]

49. And more people should teach their kids this

before it's toolate

[saras]

10. Well, THAT makes the purpose of the "testing" clear enough...

"simulate the stringent rules to prepare students for what's to come"

Nothing whatsoever to do with intellectual competence.

And seriously. There's no reason ever, ever, ever, ever to order a kid not to go to the bathroom. That's abuse. May as well reach up there and pull it out yourself. It's just NOT YOUR BUSINESS how someone else's bowels work. And six is PLENTY old enough to understand this.

The test makers admit, when questioned about the content and accuracy of the questions, that the process is sloppy and inaccurate, and that doesn't matter for their concerns. So, the strictness about controlling the subjects doesn't have to do with preventing cheating, because the exact scores aren't that important - they just said so.

[HereSince1628]

13. well, there's a little girl who just learned a very shitty lesson about authority

[hamsterjill]

15. Good gracious! When you gotta go, you've gotta go!

It's a very human condition. Put me in a room with any given number of people and I'll be the first one needing to go to the bathroom. To deny someone the right to relieve herself is inhumane, especially a kindergartner.

And yes, of course, there are children who abuse the bathroom trips by asking to go when they don't really need to, but an astute ADULT should be able to pretty much spot these children for what they are.

If the issue is the testing, surely someone could have escorted this child to the bathroom so that she wasn't accused of cheating, etc.

Yes...I know...what do *I* expect? Common sense is completely out of the question!

[shraby]

18. What in the hell would be on a test for kindergartners that would be cheated about?????

Not only cheated about but would make a big difference in anything?

[Cleita]

32. When I was in school, the nun would get one of the older eighth grade children to take the young

ones (first and second grade) to the bathroom before testing and for trips to church ceremonies that could take more than an hour. Also, about the cheating. I don't think a child that young thinks that far ahead. It's really stupid.

[hamsterjill]

39. Now, there you go again!

Expecting someone to use some common sense! (Sarcasm, of course).

Same thing when I was in school. The older kids helped take care of the smaller ones and felt "important" doing it.

I agree about the cheating, just figured that was the excuse that would be given (i.e., that the room had to be secure while the testing was in session).

[yellowcanine]

16. We might as well hire robots to teach our kids.

If you can't be trusted to make a judgment about when a child needs to be allowed to go to the bathroom you are not fit to be a teacher of young children.

[pstokely]

22. Superintendent's orders probably

[yellowcanine]

25. The teacher is responsible for the children under her care.

If it was the superintendent's order, the teacher should have overridden it and asked for forgiveness later. That is why I said, might as well put robots in classrooms if you are going to not going to trust teachers to manage their classrooms.

[pstokely]

27. Teacher was probably afraid of being fired

Damned if she did, damned since she didn't

[Snake Alchemist]

29. Order probably came right down from the POTUS. nt

[yellowcanine]

41. If a teacher gets fired for allowing a 6 yr old to use the potty she has one helluva a case for

wrongful dismissal. I would chance it. Seriously, sometimes you just have to do what you know is the right thing.

[Egalitarian Thug]

36. No, robots are expensive and require even more expensive people to

build & maintain them.

The www is free and web programmers make even less than teachers...

Where do these morons think this ends?

[pstokely]

51. The robot lobby will get them in schools

nt

[4th law of robotics]

38. Worse, we've pretty much hired lawyers and administrators to do that job

[MineralMan]

19. Six-year-old should always be allowed to go to the bathroom

whenever needed. It's cruel to do otherwise. Someone should be fired.

[Tatiana]

20. How the heck is the child going to feel about standardized testing after THAT experience?

Good Lord, have we lost all COMMON SENSE?

Why in the heck is the Superintendent defending this? (Could be the teacher was following the superintendent's directive???)

[d_r]

21. This

is why basing school funding and teacher salary on narrow-focused standardized testing is a bad thing

[pstokely]

23. Maybe just she had spoiled meat like Seamus

Too bad the classroom did have a hose, teacher could have hosed her down like Mittens did

[ctaylors6]

24. My kid's school allows bathroom trips during test

for any age child. They have monitors in the hallways. The child is supposed to raise her hand, and the teacher walks the student to the door and asks for the monitor to escort the child to the bathroom. One child is allowed in bathroom at a time, but they can go in whatever order they want or go to another bathroom if needed.

This should never have been allowed. Especially for a kindergartener. It's appalling.

Related note: I've recently heard both the superintendent of my kids' school district and the principal of one school talk at length about how there's too much testing. The parents in the district seem to almost universally agree. They said the past 2 years it's become so much worse. As a parent, I've noticed the significant increase in days of testing. Even 4-5 years ago, I barely registered when the kids were taking the state tests except for making sure they had a lunch packed since they had to eat in classrooms. A new state test is starting this year, and it requires even more days of testing. Anyway, the superintendent gave several reasons for why he thought there's too much testing. He's trying very hard to work with the state to lower the number of testing days and/or get exemptions from testing.

[Cleita]

30. What is this war on six-year-olds? First handcuffs and now this?

[tabbycat31]

31. this happened to me in 1st grade

Minus the standardized test.

I kept asking my teacher to go to the bathroom and she kept saying no. Eventually I wound up pissing all over the floor (and getting in trouble for that). If she had just let me go in the first place, the incident would have been avoided.

People reminded me of that at HS graduation.

[yellowcanine]

42. Didn't everyone pee in their pants at least once in K or 1st grade?

I never went to K but I did pee my pants while eating lunch at my desk in first grade. It made a big puddle on the floor which I covered up by spilling my chocolate milk.

[tabbycat31]

43. I was the only one in my class

However, my 1st grade teacher was just mean. She was not the warm fuzzy type (which I think the younger grades need) and she seemed to single me out with thing (ie accusing me of chewing on pencils).

[yellowcanine]

44. I thought most first graders chewed on pencils also.

All mine had numerous bite marks.

My first grade teacher wasn't very warm and fuzzy either and she wasn't very nice to certain kids who weren't very good or interested in following directions. If you colored within the lines you were ok but otherwise she wasn't above humiliating you in front of the whole class. Damn Nazi now that I think about it.

[IcyPeas]

35. a nun did this to me in 3rd grade..

we were supposed to only go during our lunchtime. well I had to go after lunch and I asked and she told me no, that I should've gone before. I went and sat back down and couldn't hold it in (pee) and when it eventually started dripping on to the floor everyone started laughing at me. I HATE NUNS. Is it any wonder I don't like religion of any kind now - especially the catholic religion. the nuns loved to shame kids. very godly of them.

shame is a really terrible thing. I ran home after school all soaking wet of pee.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

40. I argued with the orchestra teacher about being late to class at noon.

this was in high school. I had to go to the bathroom in the middle of the day to change my pad when I had my period. He threatened me with suspension. I told him to talk to my mother about it.
He had a wife and a daughter and should know about those things.

I guess I should have thrown a dirty pad on his desk. And gotten suspended for that.

[chrisa]

45. Kindergartners? Really?

They should be playing with blocks and reading childrens' stories.

Has anyone ever heard of a school administrator doing something smart? Me neither.

What standardized test could they possibly take? How to build blocks? They don't even know how to add yet. I swear they want to emulate China, where children have no lives and are not taught any form of creativity. It's almost scary.

[Stinky The Clown]

47. At least they had the good sense not to call the cops and have her cuffed.

The fucking teacher is a fucking moron.

THESE ARE CHILDREN.

GawdfuckingDAMMIT!

[Sabriel]

54. My kids have standing orders to pee when they need to.

We'll back them up, no matter what.

And we're teachers.

Also, if more parents would/could pull their kids out of school on testing days, the PTB might get the picture:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11241474

[LetTimmySmoke]

55. I'm a teacher, and state standardized testing makes me not want to have kids.