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NNguyenMD

(1,259 posts)
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 02:51 PM Oct 2014

2014 aside, anyone else get this feeling that the GOP is slowly self-destructing?

With each passing day, its becoming more obvious to even run of the mill conservatives how absolutely ridiculous and irrational the GOP is becoming. Whether its with regard to health or economic policy.

I think the gubernatorial race in Kansas is a very good example of exactly how absolutely absurd, off the grid, tea party policy has resulted in a unifying backlash of Democrats and Republicans against Sam Brownback.

Contrast Sam Brownback to Gov. Jerry Brown of California, who with a supermajority in the CA assembly and senate, runs a functional government in an enormous state that is steadily back on the mend.

It may very well be the case that we lose the Senate in 2014, I hope that we don't, but even if we do the writing is clearly on the wall that the GOP is imploding.

I think the soulless technocrat wing of the GOP understands this well, hence the aggressive push for voter suppression legislation and the heavy gerrymandering of districts. They can't win the war of ideas, and thus go after the rules of the game instead.

Does a Republican House and Senate in 2014 spell out for a more conservative America? I don't think so. I think it represents an opponent that is circling their wagons for one last stand.

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2014 aside, anyone else get this feeling that the GOP is slowly self-destructing? (Original Post) NNguyenMD Oct 2014 OP
Even with gerrymandering and voter suppression, they're losing their grip NightWatcher Oct 2014 #1
People have been saying this since W was in power. vi5 Oct 2014 #2
They've been saying it since the 70's YarnAddict Oct 2014 #11
They've been saying it since Goldwater got clobbered in 1964. Jim Lane Oct 2014 #17
And that's too bad YarnAddict Oct 2014 #19
Tell me again what extremists are in the Democratic party? vi5 Oct 2014 #27
There are a lot of people in the middle YarnAddict Oct 2014 #29
The Republican party vi5 Oct 2014 #30
Interestingly, if they win the senate this year, it will be the fatal blow for the GOP ChairmanAgnostic Oct 2014 #3
I thought that way in 2008 tabbycat31 Oct 2014 #4
I agree, however.... Wait Wut Oct 2014 #5
The Repubicans could change their fortunes overnight and it would be a disaster for the Democrats Fumesucker Oct 2014 #6
I don't think the issue is as big as you say tabbycat31 Oct 2014 #25
According to the ACLU there were 8.2 millon cannabis arrests from 2001-2010 Fumesucker Oct 2014 #31
I'm not saying that it is not an issue tabbycat31 Oct 2014 #32
There's other issues that intersect with cannabis legalization Fumesucker Oct 2014 #33
College students don't vote on a regular basis tabbycat31 Oct 2014 #34
This all makes sense, but, sadly, a fair number of Americans leave their brains at home when RKP5637 Oct 2014 #7
It started in the never-talked-about 2006 elections underpants Oct 2014 #8
No JustAnotherGen Oct 2014 #9
That's exactly what I see. No whistling by the graveyard for me. You nailed it. freshwest Oct 2014 #20
I've been watching debates on CSPAN and yes, they are self-destructing. tridim Oct 2014 #10
If TPTB and the 1% didn't also own the Democrats hifiguy Oct 2014 #12
So R and D, exactly the same. Check. tridim Oct 2014 #13
No, NOT the same. hifiguy Oct 2014 #14
+100 truebluegreen Oct 2014 #38
Yes, until the seeds that they have planted within the children's curriculum grows fruit Xyzse Oct 2014 #15
No, greed never goes away LeftInTX Oct 2014 #16
Corporate Republicans NEED to be batshit crazy, woo me with science Oct 2014 #18
++++ Vincardog Oct 2014 #28
So true and so sad. hifiguy Oct 2014 #39
I think the logic of the two-party system makes it nearly impossible for a party to collapse. cemaphonic Oct 2014 #21
This is a total distraction. The demise of the GOP has been talked about for a long time. rhett o rick Oct 2014 #22
The GOP isn't going away. Stupid people way outnumber smart ones and their numbers grow. Katashi_itto Oct 2014 #23
Yep. We have a media that manufactures stupidity hifiguy Oct 2014 #40
In the short term, no. In the long term, perhaps, due to demographics. n/t nomorenomore08 Oct 2014 #24
The GOP is doing what they have been saying since 1930, drown government and repeal all FDR programs CK_John Oct 2014 #26
As long as midterm elections have low turnout, the GOP will never go away Blaukraut Oct 2014 #35
Far from it, I think they've won for the moment Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #36
Why 2014 aside? maced666 Oct 2014 #37
They've dropped their anti- obamacare, anti-gay marriage, anti-deconstruct social security screeds lindysalsagal Oct 2014 #41

NightWatcher

(39,343 posts)
1. Even with gerrymandering and voter suppression, they're losing their grip
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 02:55 PM
Oct 2014

I don't think they'll take the Senate this time, nor will they win a Prez election anytime soon.

They are in their final last desperate throws, and if you listen carefully you can hear a little death rattle every time Ted Cruz or Rubio opens their yapper to say "Impeach" or "Benghazi".

 

vi5

(13,305 posts)
2. People have been saying this since W was in power.
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 02:56 PM
Oct 2014

Yet here we are facing the loss of yet another branch of government.

 

YarnAddict

(1,850 posts)
11. They've been saying it since the 70's
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 03:46 PM
Oct 2014

I had a college history professor in 1977 or 78 who predicted the demise of the R party because of Watergate. He thought they might devolve into a regional party. Just a couple of years later we got Ronnie Raygun, and in the last 34 years we have had 20 years of R presidents.

 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
17. They've been saying it since Goldwater got clobbered in 1964.
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 04:28 PM
Oct 2014

And, on the other side, McGovern's resounding defeat in 1972 led plenty of Republicans to say that the Democratic Party was relegated to permanent second-class status.

These were the two most lopsided elections since World War II. In each case, the party that had lost in a landslide, and that had been written off, came back to win the Presidency just four years later.

The moral of the story is that modern America has two major parties because of structural factors. Two means not three and not one. There's no realistic prospect of a third party getting anywhere. It's also unlikely that either major party will become so weakened as to be noncompetitive on a long-term basis.

 

YarnAddict

(1,850 posts)
19. And that's too bad
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 04:43 PM
Oct 2014

There is so much batshit craziness on BOTH sides, and as the two major parties become more and more polarized there will literally be no place for the moderates to go. As they start to feel disenfranchised I'm afraid they will totally lose interest in the process, and that means elections will be decided by fewer and fewer people.

 

vi5

(13,305 posts)
27. Tell me again what extremists are in the Democratic party?
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 06:00 PM
Oct 2014

Which extremists on the left have any say whatsoever in Democratic party politics, let alone actually get elected?

What is the extreme position that the Democratic party takes again?

 

YarnAddict

(1,850 posts)
29. There are a lot of people in the middle
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 06:33 PM
Oct 2014

whose views are not reflected in the Democratic party of today. Just a few examples: there are people who want restrictions on immigration; people who want ban on travel from W. Africa; people who want some restrictions on abortion; people who think there should be some limits to the safety net, etc. They may not buy the whole crazy Repub bullshit, but they don't like what the Dems stand for either.

Where do they go?

 

vi5

(13,305 posts)
30. The Republican party
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 08:50 PM
Oct 2014

Those are all long time Republican party platforms. Those are not "centrist: positions. They are Republican positions. If someone believes those things they will be welcome with open arms in the Republican party and find many representatives who believe those things. Just because people like to consider themselves moderate and in the middle, and just because they may call themselves that doesn't mean that they are.

Just because the Republicans moved even farther right than those positions does not make those positions any more "centrist" or "middle" today than they were 20-30 years ago.

And thats not even getting into the fact that there are more elected representatives in the Democratic party right now across the country who hold those positions you listed than who hold positions much farther to the left than that. More red state dems hold the Republican positions on the issues you listed than do any Blue State republicans hold the equivalent Democratic position.

In the past 10 years or more, Democrats as a whole have made more concessions in the direction of the positions you mentioned than Republicans have in the opposite directions.

The notion that the two parties have moved to equivalent extremes is patently bullshit.

ChairmanAgnostic

(28,017 posts)
3. Interestingly, if they win the senate this year, it will be the fatal blow for the GOP
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 02:58 PM
Oct 2014

Their reactionaries (as a majority) will be so bad, so vile, so destructive, that I can easily imagine people with pitchforks and brooms heading to DC.

tabbycat31

(6,336 posts)
4. I thought that way in 2008
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 03:00 PM
Oct 2014

When I thought that the GOP would be doomed demographically. But what we've seen since then is that they reenergized their base of old, white men with the birth of the tea party. They're not doomed until the Dem base votes in the numbers that their GOP counterparts do.

And I'm a voter in a blue state that reelected a GOP governor by a landslide last year.

Wait Wut

(8,492 posts)
5. I agree, however....
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 03:02 PM
Oct 2014

...unless we overturn CU and stop the flow of dark money, stop voter ID laws and intimidation, their self-destruction will mean nothing. A monkey with a feces throwing habit could get elected. Just look at Gohmert.

Bottom line, Democrats have become complacent and disillusioned. The obstruction from the right has been hell for us. The upside, that you hinted at with Kansas, are the close races in Red states. Hell, even her in AZ our race for Gov. is closer than I had imagined. Though, I still have a hard time calling Duval a "Democrat" without gritting my teeth. Still voting for him. If nothing else, it will give the Democrats in this state something to be proud(ish) of.

Good luck to everyone, especially those of you in red states.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
6. The Repubicans could change their fortunes overnight and it would be a disaster for the Democrats
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 03:04 PM
Oct 2014

All the Republicans really need to do is take up cannabis legalization in a big way, not half measures but a full legalization with cannabis treated just like alcohol.

It would trigger a political earthquake like this country has not seen in quite some time.

There was a post on GD this morning talking about Koch funded effort in NC that's aimed at legalization, I wouldn't dismiss the possibility out of hand, the Republicans can turn on a dime, give you nine cents change and not miss a beat in the process.



tabbycat31

(6,336 posts)
25. I don't think the issue is as big as you say
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 05:45 PM
Oct 2014

Most people I know (including myself) it's just not a big deal to. Maybe I'm in the wrong part of the country or have the wrong circle of people, but a candidate's stance on pot won't persuade me to vote for/against him/her in any way, shape, or form.

(FTR I support legalization and treating it like alcohol/cigarettes, but there are dozens of issues that are much more important to me).

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
31. According to the ACLU there were 8.2 millon cannabis arrests from 2001-2010
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 09:20 PM
Oct 2014

That's 8.2 million people whose lives have been screwed up quite possibly forever, most of them and a lot of their families are interested in this issue.

It's hitting home to one of my neighbors right now, their 18 year old grandson was arrested for possession recently and even before he's gone to court it's cost the parents a ton of money for bail and lawyers, etc, money they really can't afford to be spending. Grandma used to toke way back in the day and had kind of gotten the idea that pot is "almost legal" now and she was shocked when the bail on the kid was set quite high, it wouldn't take much at all right now to get her to vote for someone who would promise to stop this stupidity.

tabbycat31

(6,336 posts)
32. I'm not saying that it is not an issue
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 09:37 PM
Oct 2014

But if you give me a list of issues to rank by my personal priorities, it would be near the bottom. BUt to me, issues like the economy, income inequality, women's rights, health care, environmental issues, rank much higher on my priority list.

I also don't live in a big city and not many people around me smoke weed (I do know the smell). My personal stance is legalize it, regulate it, and tax it at the same rate that cigarettes are taxed. Make the minimum age 18 or 21. If it were on the ballot, I'd vote for it.

I know people say that it would motivate millennials to vote, but as a borderline millennial, it would not motivate me one way or another. I also know of many older liberals who would vote against it (including my entire extended family, who raised me to be a Democrat). Thinking of the local Democratic party where I live, it would divide it (we have a large union presence including law enforcement) and I don't know if the party would recover. If you want an issue that would really motivate millennial voters, it's called student loans.

Maybe a star member will post a poll here to see where it ranks among issue priorities on DU.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
33. There's other issues that intersect with cannabis legalization
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 09:48 PM
Oct 2014

Militarization of the police and prison privatization are two.

Without the drug war the black vote would be much stronger than it is, about a third of black males have lost the franchise due mostly drug convictions.

You seem to be talking about motivating people who already vote, there are a great many people who don't vote and I think a substantial number of them could be brought in by a campaign that speaks to an issue no one else will willingly discuss.

Evidently the Brothers Koch think so too.

tabbycat31

(6,336 posts)
34. College students don't vote on a regular basis
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 10:06 PM
Oct 2014

I missed my first midterm election (18) as a college student, so I was that apathetic kid.

But if a politician runs on the issue of making college more affordable and reforming student loans, it is an issue that hits directly in the pocket for most college students. That would motivate him/her to vote (and they'd tell their friends too).

RKP5637

(67,030 posts)
7. This all makes sense, but, sadly, a fair number of Americans leave their brains at home when
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 03:19 PM
Oct 2014

they go to vote. Never underestimate American voters to vote in the wrong people for the wrong reasons.

underpants

(182,271 posts)
8. It started in the never-talked-about 2006 elections
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 03:34 PM
Oct 2014

All we hear about is 2010. In fact we hear about that election more than the two Obama landslides. In 2006 they had been exposed and with Howard Dean's 50 state strategy the Republicans got ripped apart. THEN they starting ripping from their own insides by creating the Teabagger thing. I have theories about why they turned on themselves but they involve reason and basic history so my theories are probably wrong about that clown car.

The media, and I mean all media, is the only thing that has kept the Republicans alive since then. The media both covers their wild hoaxes as real but also offers the right's opinions as having any merit.

JustAnotherGen

(31,681 posts)
9. No
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 03:35 PM
Oct 2014

I believe they are stronger than ever. The people that they appeal to have never been more fearful, more possessive, and more incapable of feeling empathy for other people than theyare right now.

tridim

(45,358 posts)
10. I've been watching debates on CSPAN and yes, they are self-destructing.
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 03:45 PM
Oct 2014

The contrast between the sane Democrat and the crazy Republican is obvious and striking to anyone watching.

It has never been this bad before. It's almost as if they don't know they are talking crazy, it's the new normal for them, praise Rush.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
12. If TPTB and the 1% didn't also own the Democrats
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 03:48 PM
Oct 2014

it might matter a lot more than it does or will. Unfortunately the Democratic Party was sold to them by the DLC and their fellow travelers- Hi, Hillary!.

There is only one party in the US - It is The Money Party. The Dems are fascism-lite/inverted totalitarianism with a smiley face (see posts 8 and 9 in this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5709782) and the Repukes are the simon-pure fascism without a smile party. We're fucked either way:



tridim

(45,358 posts)
13. So R and D, exactly the same. Check.
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 04:10 PM
Oct 2014


Doesn't matter how many times it is said, it is still a big old load of crap.

Xyzse

(8,217 posts)
15. Yes, until the seeds that they have planted within the children's curriculum grows fruit
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 04:17 PM
Oct 2014

Then, we're stuck again with a Reaganistic/Bushistic nightmare, that would take a few decades to fix.

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
18. Corporate Republicans NEED to be batshit crazy,
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 04:41 PM
Oct 2014

so that corporate Democrats can continue to move rightward.

That's the beauty for the One Percent of owning both parties.

With the Republican Party, you get all this PLUS mandatory transvaginal ultrasounds!

Mass spying on Americans? Both parties support it.
Handing the internet to corporations? Both parties support it.
Austerity for the masses? Both parties support it.
Cutting social safety nets? Both parties support it.
Corporatists in the cabinet? Both parties support it.
Tolling our interstate highways? Both parties support it.
Corporate education policy? Both parties support it.
Bank bailouts? Both parties support it.
Ignoring the trillions stashed overseas? Both parties support it.
Trans-Pacific Job/Wage Killing Secret Agreement? Both parties support it.
TISA corporate overlord agreement? Both parties support it.
Drilling and fracking? Both parties support it.
Wars on medical marijuana instead of corrupt banks? Both parties support it.
Deregulation of the food industry? Both parties support it.
GMO's? Both parties support it.
Privatization of the TVA? Both parties support it.
Immunity for telecoms? Both parties support it.
"Looking forward" and letting war criminals off the hook? Both parties support it.
Deciding torturers are patriots? Both parties support it.
Militarized police and assaults on protesters? Both parties support it.
Indefinite detention? Both parties support it.
Drone wars and kill lists? Both parties support it.
Targeting of journalists and whistleblowers? Both parties support it.
Private prisons replacing public prisons? Both parties support it.
Unions? Both parties view them with contempt.
Trillion dollar increase in nuclear weapons. Both parties support it.
New war in Iraq. Both parties support it.
New war in Syria. Both parties support it.
Carpet bombing of captive population in Gaza. Both parties support it.















cemaphonic

(4,138 posts)
21. I think the logic of the two-party system makes it nearly impossible for a party to collapse.
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 04:51 PM
Oct 2014

However, I think that we are due for a significant leftward shift once the Millennials age enough to be more reliable voters. The Boomers (and to a lesser extent us Xers) grew up in an era of more abundant opportunities, so the libertarian economic message has been an easy sell, even to many who are otherwise pretty liberal. The younger generations know that they are being screwed, and that the system works against them. We also grew up at a time where the US really was the world leader on many measures of QOL, so there is a sense of "why change what is working?" That's not true anymore, and people are more connected and informed about the rest of the world, so many people are starting to wonder why we can't have all the services that are taking for granted in the rest of the industrialized world. And finally, the racist rallying cries that the Republicans have been leaning since Nixon, just aren't nearly as effective on younger Americans, even the ones that come from places that have historically been bastions of racism.

I think that in the next decade or so, the Republicans will be forced to try to make inroads into their old core constituency of the urban middle/professional class, and to do that, they will need to stop listening as closely to the religious and anti-tax wings of their party.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
22. This is a total distraction. The demise of the GOP has been talked about for a long time.
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 05:07 PM
Oct 2014

Death of the Republican Party does not mean the death of Republican VAlues. Now they are migrating into the Democratic Party. We need two vibrant parties to get our democracy to work not one big Democratic Party run by migrated conservatives.

There are enough DEmocratic Senators to confirm the Democratic President nomination for Surgeon General. But some of these Democratic Senators are Democrats in Name Only and vote with the Republicans. Republicans maybe change their party but they don't change their ideology.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
40. Yep. We have a media that manufactures stupidity
Sat Oct 25, 2014, 02:33 PM
Oct 2014

in mass quantities. The education system has been so thoroughly dismantled in the last 30+ years that it manufactures even more idiots, devoid of critical thinking abilities or the ability to ask real questions. And then there's religion. The original font of All That Is Stupid.

CK_John

(10,005 posts)
26. The GOP is doing what they have been saying since 1930, drown government and repeal all FDR programs
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 05:53 PM
Oct 2014

Since the public think load mouth in your face politicians are leaders they are running the board.

The GOP have doubled their support in the last few years.

Blaukraut

(5,689 posts)
35. As long as midterm elections have low turnout, the GOP will never go away
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 10:11 PM
Oct 2014

This is how they maintain power: In local, state, and gubernatorial elections. When the entire system gets rigged in their favor from the ground up, they will stick around.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
36. Far from it, I think they've won for the moment
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 11:27 PM
Oct 2014

They have an effective minority veto in Congress (which they'll abolish the second they get into power), near total control of the media and a pet SCOTUS to rule any law they dislike unconstitutional. The presidency, in the face of that, isn't all that important.

They've won for the moment. All we can do now is fight to prevent the worst of their savagery and wait for demographics to destroy the party in ten to fifteen years.

 

maced666

(771 posts)
37. Why 2014 aside?
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 11:54 PM
Oct 2014

They appear to be falling apart now and present, upcoming election included - couple weeks we will see.

lindysalsagal

(20,440 posts)
41. They've dropped their anti- obamacare, anti-gay marriage, anti-deconstruct social security screeds
Sat Oct 25, 2014, 07:29 PM
Oct 2014

so there's not much left, except Obama hating. Oh, yeah, and minorities. But, honestly, they're not yelling about the border like they did years ago.

Not much left for them to campaign on, so, at least their ideologies are melting.

They are winning on abortion without saying as much about it.

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