Baby boomers Ruined America: Why Blaming Millennials is Misguided — and Annoying

[UglyGreed]

Last edited Tue Oct 28, 2014, 04:35 PM - Edit history (2)

Don't shoot me, I'm Gen Xer

10/28/14 EDIT TO ADD

I did not say I agreed with the article, I just know there are many generations who post here and thought it would be interesting to see what everyone had to say.

I am a GenXer with all my siblings being Boomers born many years ahead of me. My parents were both born in the twenties which I guess they are a part of the greatest generation, if they allow displaced people from other countries to be members.

I thought my don't shoot me comment would of covered that, but it seems I failed again.



Readers of this post have no doubt seen articles admonishing millennials for their perceived apocalyptic effect on the workforce, society, family and everywhere in between. The seemingly endless list of complaints about millennials begins with lazy and pampered, and ends with “selfies.” The accusations, guilt and fear-mongering are unfounded and – even worse – are mostly blame-shifting. Frankly, I am tired of it. What makes the millennial-bashing even more unbearable is the generation that is slinging the mud: the baby boomers.

Baby boomers came of age in an era of unprecedented prosperity. They were raised by parents who had survived poverty, war and the true sacrifice of a generation burdened with great moral struggles. As a whole, they experienced economic and physical security. Baby boomers received, by today’s standards, inexpensive and widely available education, preparing them for a thriving and open job market. Success at the beginning created a strong foundation for financial and personal success on a level the world had never known.

http://www.salon.com/2014/10/20/baby_boomers_ruined_america_why_blaming_millennials_is_misguided_and_annoying/

[Newsjock]

1. Blaming any entire generation is misguided and annoying

n/t

[hfojvt]

2. so basically the whole generation is to blame

for Bush and other Republicans?

What the fuck ever.

[SharonAnn]

167. Many of us Baby Boomers did in fact do great damage to this country.

Yuppies, "me, me, me", selfish, etc.

We failed to appreciate that the reason we had nice things(roads, schools, affordable college, etc.) was that our parents, who grew up in the Depression and WWII, taxed themselves to invest in those things and joined labor unions to get treated fairly in their jobs. I guess that somehow, we thought it all came from the "magic fairy".

I am, truly, disappointed in us. We are not the only ones who did damage, but we could've done so much better.

[robthesocialist]

207. boomers destroyed everything the silent generation built in 30 years

Here's a list:

Family Values?? They started raising the divorce rate and literally started the increase in broken homes in the 70's.

Taxes?? Effectively cut the tax rate down to 30% from 70...

Labor unions?? Cut them down to 10% of the workforce

Presidents?? Ronald Reagan need I say more?

How can millenials be blamed for anything when they're just now voting basically?? If anything Millennials helped elect a president to stop the bleeding..

[TlalocW]

3. Can I still hate hipsters?

Please?

TlalocW

[TeamPooka]

51. Yes.

[Puzzledtraveller]

178. by all means.

[CBGLuthier]

4. The biggest mistake living americans make is believing america was ever really that great.

Slavery, racism, misogyny. imperialism, corporatism, war, war, war, war, war. When the fuck was this country really that special? We threw out one set of rich white assholes and left another set of rich white assholes in charge and for 250 years not much has changed.

[bravenak]

5. I know, right?

All that fucking nostalgia.

[KarenS]

8. You nailed it!! n/t

[Mr Dixon]

11. great point

Agreed

[daleanime]

15. The sad thing is....

we could be, if we wanted to.

[whathehell]

16. As compared to where?

America was never perfect -- Unfortunately, neither was anywhere else.

Your post sounds bitter and rather racist, frankly -- Would you have preferred

a Rich Black asshole like Herman Caine, or Alan Keyes, or some other Black conservative?

Whatever your antagonism toward "rich" and/or "white" people, you should know that

the eight RICHEST zip codes in this country voted for OBAMA in 2012.

Assholes come in every color & and while I agree that MANY, if not most rich people,

in the current time, at least, are selfish Republicans, history -- not to mention

the very recent "history" of the 2012 elections -- proves there are IMPORTANT exceptions.

Franklin Delano Roosevelt -- Rich, White, Disabled and decidedly FOR the people, again, not perfect, but responsible for GREAT things in this country -- So much NOT an "asshole" that he hated, and called "A traitor to his class" by the rich people he grew up with.

He is responsible for setting up, for the first time, a social safety net for Americans, with Social Security, setting the stage for Medicare, Medicaid, Unemployment insurance and the rest. Last but NOT least, he set up the National Labor Relations Board which gave average working people the LEGAL right to organize and collectively bargain for higher wages, the 5 day work week (!) and safe working conditions.

Try JFK, RFK and the decidedly Non-Rich LBJ, who put their presidential muscle behind the Civil Rights struggles of the Sixties.

Painting with a broad brush is always wrong -- whether it comes to races or income groups.

[GeorgeGist]

23. Try reading something other than Forbes.

[whathehell]

28. LOL...YOU try reading history!

Don't be stupid, I'm not saying America is "all that great" now, I'm responding to

a post that says "America was NEVER 'that great', and my question is, compared

to where?.

"Forbes"? Sorry, bro, I'm a boomer, the child of a labor organizer/factory worker.
as is my spouse.

Because of the New Deal policies that I mentioned (did you even bother to read my post?)..Both of us were able to go to public colleges and, with hard work, reach a very comfortable middle class life by the time were in our late forties, early fifties.

My point is, the America we grew up in, the one our parents left us, and the one we FOUGHT for via civil rights, women's rights, gay rights and anti-war protests, was never 'perfect', nothing is, but it was SO much better than what it is now -- Forbes reading not
required.

[1StrongBlackMan]

126. How about ...

Don't be stupid, I'm not saying America is "all that great" now, I'm responding to

a post that says "America was NEVER 'that great', and my question is, compared

to where?.

As compared to the America that white people wax nostalgic. That America completely missed Communities of Color.

[bravenak]

134. +1 exactly

[1StrongBlackMan]

136. I wish he/she had stayed around ...

I just could wait for him/her to argue, "Well, African Chieftains were the ones selling you into slavery" or "My {fill in the ethnicity} great, great, great grandpappy had it rough too! He arrived on these shores with just the clothes on his back and a nickel sewn into the waistband of his topcoat!"

[bravenak]

138. Ain't that where THEY always go?? LOL!!

Or the " What about the Irish?" Thing. Like it's exactly the same thing as slavery, jim crow, and lynchings, and rape. Exactly the same.

[whathehell]

142. How about..

It's unquestionable that America was, and still is, to an extent, "less" great for people of color.

That said, I propose that it would be wrong to suggest that the progress America has made via The Civil Rights Movement, Affirmative Action, the visibility AND large numbers of successful people of color in virtually EVERY field of endeavor amounts to NOTHING and equates to "America completely MISSED communities of color ...There's too much evidence to the contrary.

Is it perfect?...hell, no, but that's NOT the same as saying there's been NO substantial progress, or that "America utterly "completely" missed Communities of Color"

[1StrongBlackMan]

147. So by your standard ...

That said, I propose that it would be wrong to suggest that the progress America has made via The Civil Rights Movement, Affirmative Action, the visibility AND large numbers of successful people of color in virtually EVERY field of endeavor amounts to NOTHING and equates to "America completely MISSED communities of color ...There's too much evidence to the contrary.

"Evidence to the contrary", when I, and those that look like me, suffer the daily indignity of racism and discrimination ... Yes, the nostalgic "not so bad" America missed, and continues to completely miss, me and my community.

By your argument, there are hundreds of white billionaires and close to 10 million, millionaires in the U.S. ... what's you excuse?

[whathehell]

150. A question:

Do you think that women's lives have improved over the last half century or so?

As a male, this may be something you don't think of much, so I ask you, just for a moment, to imagine being female. Add to that the fact of living in a city, and, being of modest means, possessing no car or other private transportation.

I'm white, yes, but I've ALSO suffered the daily "indignity and discrimination" of Sexism, not only on a verbal and economic level, but a PHYSICAL one as well, since I've been attacked BECAUSE of my gender, and live under the daily THREAT of being attacked again, a situation that is NOT improved by living in a hyper-sexualized society that demeans and insults females "for shits and giggles" every day.

I'd say a "Strong Black man" might want to compare that to his own situation, because my answer to my own question is "Yes, women's lives HAVE improved, even though,
I've lived with that shit EVERY day!

[1StrongBlackMan]

152. Yes, the lives of some woen have improved ...

over the last fifty years or so. I know the argument very well.

But then, I don't have the termidity to wax nostalgic about the good old days and attempt to tell women, "well ... you have it better than your grand-mother ... so don't complain about the .77 on the dollar ... and what's this mess about 'marital rape'? You consrnted to that when you got married."

[whathehell]

154. Yes, and the lives of some African-Americans have improved..

but then, I don't have the "temerity" to lecture white women on THEIR "privilege"

while benefitting from my MALE "privilege" and taking it for granted.

[1StrongBlackMan]

158. When have I ever lectured any woman on any topic? ...

What are you talking about?

[whathehell]

159. Lecturing white people, or any racial group, for that matter,

necessitates lecturing the half that are female -- that's what I'm talking

about. When you complain about white people "waxing nostalgic" as

you put it, you are complaining to and ABOUT them as well.

With our male-dominant culture, it's apparently hard for men to "remember"

that they are speaking to as many, if not more, women than men.*

DUers almost always assume I'm male, and I'm guessing it's like having a majority white

population try to "remember" that when they speak of American history and

experience, they are speaking of non-white people's history and experience as well.


* I can't count the number of times I've been called "dude" or referred to as "he".

[1StrongBlackMan]

161. Good point ...

But then, white women DO hold a privilege, by virtue of their whiteness; this does not negate the fact that they are "disprivilege, by virtue of their gender. Likewise, I am fully aware that my maleness provides by a privilege (over women, as a class), while I remain "disprivileged" by virtue of my race.

So, when I complain about white people "waxing nostalgic", it is not without the recognition that I hold privilege over a segment of that group.

[whathehell]

162. Thank you..

I agree, and I'm glad that we could reach some understanding.

We might want to pick up this conversation later, but unfortunately,

I, for one, can't do it now, as I have to run out for an appointment.

Again, I'm glad we've reached some agreement, and we've done so with

civility as well, I'd say, and, in my experience on DU, that is no small accomplishment !

[1StrongBlackMan]

163. I was thinking the same thing ...

about our moving closer together.

[whathehell]

168. Nice!

I feel the same way.

[ProfessorGAC]

114. Really Silly Reply

Do you really think Forbes would have an interest in reporting the 8 richest zipcodes in the US voted for Obama unless it were a fact?

Your reply is a complete non-sequitur to the post to which it addresses.

[CBGLuthier]

37. Thomas Jefferson wrote all me are created equal while owning and raping slaves

The rich elitists (who just happened to be white) made the poor fight a revolution so they could keep everything for themselves.

Even Barack Obama has turned out to be another war mongering centrist who strives to preserve the status quo of the almighty dollar and corporations above the people while blowing women and children OF COLOR to pieces.

[whathehell]

50. Yeah, he wrote out women of all colors too..In fact,

Black men got to vote before White women did.

I never thought a lot of Jefferson either, for his hypocrisy on the slave issue, BUT

there seems to be reasonable debate as to whether he "raped" Sally Hemmings,

or whether, to the extent possible within the institution of slavery, he and Sally Hemmings

had what could be called a "loving" consensual relationships. Here's why:

Sally Hemmings accompanied Jefferson to Paris, where she could have LEFT him

and had her freedom -- Instead, she chose to STAY with him. Another fact that

argues against the "rapist" theory is that Jefferson freed all of his slaves

upon his death, including her, of course, and, weird as it may seem, instead of

leaving her "rapists" abode, she chose to STAY at Jefferson's house and tended

his grave until her death..

In addition, Jefferson's Black descendants joined the Sons/Daughters of the Revolution and seem to be proud to have Thomas Jefferson as an ancestor.

Life is very complicated, and what history and scholarship tells us, is that human relationships, are ESPECIALLY so --- You have to remember that many of the slaves in the South were loyal to their "masters" and even fought in the confederate army.
In addition, Free people of Color, who lived in this country since its inceptions,,
frequently owned their OWN black slaves.

[gladium et scutum]

72. Thomas Jefferson

did not free all of his slaves upon his death. Over Jefferson's life time he owned 700 slaves. While alive, he freed five of them. After his death, five more were freed in his will. Several of the ten slaves Jefferson freed were related to Sally Hemings. The remaining Jefferson slaves at Monticello and other Jefferson properties were sold with in a few months of his death to satisfy part of the $100,000 in debts he owed. Sally Hemings was not freed at Jefferson's death. She was not sold with the other Monticello slaves but was allowed live out the remainder of her life on "her time" (not having to work) near Charlottesville. She lived with her sons.

[whathehell]

87. Link?

[bravenak]

73. He promised to free their children if she came back with him.

And slave/master sexual relations are rape unless the slave is freed first and put into a position that allows for consent. You cannot say not to a master. That is not loving. That is abuse, psychological torture.

[whathehell]

86. Link?

Never heard that claim.

[bravenak]

101. Where you been? Everyone know this in my area.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson–Hemings_controversy

Even wikipedia know.

[whathehell]

111. The correct form of the question is "Where have you been"?,

not "where you been". It's "everyone KNOWS this", not "everyone 'know' this" in my

area.

In addition, whatever Wikipedia "know", a "controversy" is not a fact -- It's

a dispute about facts.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/controversy?s=t

Whatever the relationship of Hemmings and Jefferson, it occurred over two centuries

ago -- No one said America was "that great" two centuries ago, the claim was that it

had "never been that great", which I disputed with far more recent history that

neither you nor Luthier disputed.

Maybe when you get that chip off your shoulder and decide to speak and write

correctly, your outlook will improve.

[bravenak]

119. It has never been that great for people that look like me...

If it has been so awesome for all black people lets get some evidence. And don't correct my grammar. I speak as I please and do not need correction at any time with words usage, as I speak multiple languages including 'ebonics'. That was ebonics. Ever heard of it?

I'll get the chip off of my shoulder when people like you stop taking time out to to nit pick my word usage. It's like you think you are smarter than I. You are not, sadly....


As far as the Sally Hemmings controversy, the only people who dispute these facts are idiots who refuse to believe that Jefferson 'our founding father' was a slave master who used a slave sexually and kept his children in slavery through his lifetime. Those were the same people who denied the existence of Jefferson's children through Sally Hemmings. And their denial is racially motivated at times. Now, wikipedia was shown to you as a source because it is easy to find. There are many books of note in African American studies and histories that lay the whole situation, backed up by witnesses in France who knew the couple.


If you had bothered to study BLACK history, instead of walking around on your soapbox, blinded by your own ideas of your own intelligence, you would know these things instead of lashing out and saying nasty shit.

Btw. I AM a writer. I decide how words need be used.

[whathehell]

122. Sorry, honey but it's been "pretty great" for a number of people who "look like you"

starting with our President, his wife, Eric Holder, any number of Black Congress people, wealthy entrepreneurs, athletes, and entertainers, Pulitzer prize winning authors, Harvard scholars, and the list goes on.

But if, as it seems, you prefer to nurture resentment and wallow in a big Pity Party instead of doing what THEY did to become successful, you go right ahead.

By the way, I don't have to "prove" anything, and yes I WILL correct your grammar
if I so please -- Don't like it? -- Put me on Ignore and go whine to someone else.

[bravenak]

123. For some, dear, not most of us.

Compared to the treatment of people who are white, we have been used and abused for centuries..
You sound like someone who thinks they know about black people when they really know jack shit.

What you just used is the fallacious argument that if SOME black people made it then it is okay for most of us. It is not. You lack experience in being black. You know nothing about it. Yet, you presume to think to tell me that you know more about it than I.


Only idiots speak about that which they know nothing of with such force and belief in their own superiority of understanding. The tactic you just used by shooting out the names of the president and Holder as PROOF that everything is okay for black people is the 'Oprah' or 'Beyonce' argument. It's the 'look! Those black people are rich! Racism and oppression of blacks is over. Using a 'token' negro is the stupidest tactic because it is absolutely disingenuous.

And I have also found that people who nitpick at the words of bilingual people usually only speak one language and are puffed up with their own importance. I find that to be funny and phony. Enjoy your nitpicks.. I reserve the right to call the tactic stupid every-time.


I do not use ignore. I can go all day, round after round with any fool who thinks my grammar is more important than discussing the issue. Because that's all you have. You have no point but to try to down me to make yourself feel better. I hope it works and you take your nasty attitude somewhere far the fuck away from my posts.

[whathehell]

124. For only "some" of us as well, dear, not most,

or haven't you noticed?

Nah, the angry pity party you're enjoying probably screened that out as well.

Then again, since, like me, you must only "know" your own race, perhaps you really believe most Whites to be "entrepreneurs" "congress people", Pulitzer Prize winners
and Harvard scholars", LOL...Get real, honey, they're not, and if you distrust my "white" mind, try empirical facts -- The average salary for families in this country is only $50,000, so that not only includes a lot of white people, it includes MOST white people.

By the way, the number and occupations of successful Black Americans I mentioned
FAR exceeds the "entertainer and athlete" stereotype -- I KNOW that rap and it reflects the 1950s, NOT the present, so don't lay that "tokenism" BS on me.

So, no, "Everything" isn't "okay" for virtually ANYONE these days. Sorry if
that cuts into your self-important resentment, but it's a fact.

Sorry that you don't like "ignore", by the way -- I do -- It does away with being "lectured" by angry little pity partiers like you.

Buh bye, dear -- Good luck finding someone who enjoys your nasty, know-it-all bullshit.

[bravenak]

127. Sounds like you are the one in full poor me mode.

When things are equal, I'll shut up about it, until then... Fuck that. This is the same ass bullshit I have been hearing all my life by people who love to minimize the struggle of those that have ACTUALLY been oppressed by our society. There were laws written to oppress us and tactics are still in force in these United States to oppress the black population. The shit did not END in the fifties dear, so I don't know what the fuck your thinking. You probably think you have a fair point. You don't.

While our nations still continues to practice Stop and Frisk only in communities of color, you cannot bullshit me with the 'things are bad for white people too bullshit'. I wish things were only as bad for us as they were for white people, not worse. Always we are supposed to shut up and allow ourselves to be discriminated against while some white person tells us that 'at least it's better than it was.' Fuck that!! Shit needs to equalize or we can all just fucking ad,it we live in a dangerously racist nation now. It did not end. Too many people think that the struggle is over and that black people are whiners having a pity party over 400 years of oppression.

The sad things is that you are dead ass fucking serious and blind to the reality of the lives lived by people who don't look like you and don't live like you. You don't see your own advantage over others of color as oppression of them. But it is. This was a sad ass fucking post, for real. Desperate and clinging to privilege, feeling so put upon by the very idea that someone else have complaints. Poor you.

[whathehell]

129. LOL!...Good try, honey, but no cigar.

I KNEW you'd keep trying, but you'll have to spread your screed elsewhere --- Not buying, and "out of here" for good.

[bravenak]

132. Oh, Woe is meeee!!

Bye, bye!!!

[1StrongBlackMan]

133. +1 eom.

[1StrongBlackMan]

131. And that "pretty great" is despite looking like her (and me, for that matter) ...

And your patronizing "honey" shows you for what you are ... are you sure you belong on a "Liberal/progressive/Democratic" message board? Though I will admit, it's getting harder to answer these days.

[1StrongBlackMan]

130. Apparently, not only do your lack a knowledge of history ...

except that feed to you by slavery apologists ... you also lack the ability to discern mocking. I knew exactly what her ebonic reflect was intended to convey.

[whathehell]

189. Apparently, you don't know shit about my knowledge of history..

The fact is, I've probably LIVED more of it than you've read, and btw, please

bag the lame "slavery apologist" crap -- It didn't work the first time and it

won't work now.

As for my supposed "inability to discern mocking", Um, no, in fact, I AM familiar with

the old ebonics mockery -- I simply found it silly and decided not to "bite"

I must say, it didn't take long for you to go back on attack mode.

[1StrongBlackMan]

190. We had come so far towards agreement/understanding ...

what happened?

{Perhaps, you should look at the post's time-stamp. Unless, of course, you are just looking to rennew a fight.}

[whathehell]

191. You tell me..

You're the one who came up with the new nasty post.

[1StrongBlackMan]

196. Check the date and time of the "new nasty post", or not.

[whathehell]

199. Sorry about that...I suppose you could have deleted the post after

we seemed to resolve our differences, but you didn't, and I'm frankly

starting to feel "played", especially since someone alerted on me, using the

absurd allegation that I made "jaw droppingly racist comments"

I was glad the jury was able to see through this nonsense, but I'm beginning

to find this all rather tiresome, so I think it may be time to just say "adieu".

Have a nice one.

[1StrongBlackMan]

202. Please know ...

In my time here, I have neither deleted a controversial post (I said what I said, even if I change my mind/position), nor have I alerted on a post (rather, I state my objection).

[whathehell]

203. Okay, thanks.

I'm glad to know it wasn't you.

[AverageJoe90]

193. Hey there. Jury results on your post, btw:

Mail Message
On Thu Oct 23, 2014, 04:25 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Apparently, you don't know shit about my knowledge of history..
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5703002

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Personal attacks. And the blatantly racist undertone to this person's posts in the thread to several black posters is jaw dropping

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Oct 23, 2014, 04:55 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I agree that the poster has an issue with the reality of race (and history) in this country, but this doesn't warrant a hide. I think the post speaks volumes about the poster's character and it should be on display for all to see....
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Racism? Oh, fuckin' please. 1StrongBlackMan, by the way, has had a history of trolling people on this site whose viewpoints he disagrees with. Speaking as one of his victims, perhaps I can show you an example of what he's pulled.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This person's been "under-the-radar" racist for a LONG time. But the admins have decided that MORE discussion, even when people do this kind of attack, is "necessary".

Or something.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Don't think poster is racist but is certainly a little agitated and isn't articulating his/her position well because of it. Time to cool off a bit.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

Just thought I'd let you know.

[1StrongBlackMan]

195. Thank you for displaying exactly what is wrong with the jury system ...

Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Racism? Oh, fuckin' please. 1StrongBlackMan, by the way, has had a history of trolling people on this site whose viewpoints he disagrees with. Speaking as one of his victims, perhaps I can show you an example of what he's pulled.

You were called to judge the post that got alerted on; not, whether you have beef with me, or not.

[bravenak]

205. I know EXACTLY who wrote that.

[Number23]

209. What's most interesting is the number of jurors that state that person is doing themselves

absolutely NO favors in this thread.

One says that the only reason they're not voting to hide is because they want the whole site to see how ignorant this person is and another alludes that this is by no means this poster's first time on the wrong side of a racial issue. The post may not have been hidden but the outcome was still very interesting.

And that's even without a certain person using the jury system to personally attack you and then having the unmitigated brilliance to then post the attack IN THE THREAD.

[Number23]

182. Sweet Holy Hot Jesus

Maybe when you get that chip off your shoulder and decide to speak and write

correctly, your outlook will improve.

What the Everloving FUCK???!!!

[whathehell]

188. Sorry I didn't meet with your approval..

Remember that Ignore is your friend.

[Number23]

192. You post a patronizing post, dripping with racist entitlement to a poster that you know is black

And when people are gobsmacked by that, you scream that they should use ignore? Though to be honest, I'm not the slightest bit surprised that only a handful have called you out on it.

You need to become very good friends with Tim Wise. I'd suggest Jesus too but you'd probably just ignore that.

[whathehell]

200. I'm sorry, but I don't agree with your assessment.

You words are hyperbolic and you seem to be full of rage.

I have the strong feeling that anything I said would be interpreted

by you as "dripping with racist entitlement", so I am not going to engage

with you in any way.

[Number23]

208. Yes, you have the nerve tell a black woman that she needs to speak better

and somehow MY post is the one "full of rage." I have a feeling that self-awareness is just one of many traits that you are lacking in.

Judging by the unending depths of ignorance in your posts, your patronizing attitude and your sense of entitlement, you not engaging with the black posters here would probably be considered a boon to us all.

[whathehell]

210. As 1Strong Blackman noted, that woman was mocking me, and I knew it

Last edited Fri Oct 24, 2014, 11:10 AM - Edit history (1)

so I decided not to play her game.

As to "telling a Black woman that she needs to speak better", guess what?

I tell it to White posters all the time, a do others here, admittedly in irritation,

at least in my case.

So given that reality, I don't think I'm understanding you.

Are you saying that Black people need "special consideration" or that they

need to be handled with kid gloves, so to speak, because THAT is what I

consider "patronizing".

I'm not engaging your further, but before I go, please understand that you speak for

yourself and a couple of others here, but definitely not ALL Black DUers and I know

that from experience.

Goodbye.

[Number23]

211. Judging by the number of people in this thread that have your number

including more than a few jurors, I am pretty confident that I know who I speak for and with. And very happily, it is most definitely not with you.

And will this be the now THIRD time "you're not engaging with me further" but keep responding to me? But you've definitely got one thing right -- you are not even the most remote bit "engaging" at all.

Your comments about "needing special consideration" and "kid gloves" is exactly the type of garbage I would have expected you to say. You may think that you're unique and you're special, but as a black woman who has had to navigate the Western world since birth and who grew up in the United States, in particular it's southern region, PLEASE believe me when I tell you that you are like countless others that I've had to deal with and endure. Thank you for shining such a spectacular spotlight on yourself and very clearly letting everyone know who and what you are.

[whathehell]

212. The number of the jurors who "have my number" voted AGAINST the alert & let my post stand,

instead of buying into your hyperbole and apparent paranoia.

My comments about "needing special consideration" and "kid gloves" were

framed as an honest QUESTION, but it seems you didn't even SEE that, so blinded

are you by rage and God Knows What Else.

I honestly think you could benefit from professional help, and no, I'm

not saying that to be a smart ass -- Good bye and good luck.

[Number23]

213. One juror voted not to hide because s/he wanted everyone to be able to see your character

That person's words. Another juror said that you have been a documented, not-so undercover racist for a LONG time. That person's words.

Another juror said that it was time for you to cool off but voted not to hide. That was probably a mistake. If that person had voted along with their comments, your ignorant toxicity would no longer have been allowed in this thread. Like I said upthread, your post may not have been hidden, but it's clear that a lot of folks here have your number.

And your "seek professional help" is about the tiredest, most insignificant little insult you could have come up with. You've posted that the reason you launched your racist tirade on bravenak was because she was "mocking you," you've posted five times you won't "engage" with me but keep coming back with more kindergarten BS, and your faux truce with 1SBM lasted about three seconds. So, you've now decided to play psychologist as if anyone gives damn the first about your "diagnosis" or your opinions about anything after the spectacular ass you've made out of yourself in this thread. This would be funny if all of this wasn't so stupid and so AMAZINGLY predictable. Like I said before, I've dealt with people like you sooo many different times and under so many different circumstances. You ain't new, honey.

And save your "goodbyes." You keep coming back and the foot you shoved in your throat two days ago is now down so far it's almost coming out of your hiney.

[bravenak]

206. I'm glad you saw that.

The never-ending story.

[1StrongBlackMan]

128. Wow ... Are you for real?

Sally Hemmings,

or whether, to the extent possible within the institution of slavery, he and Sally Hemmings

had what could be called a "loving" consensual relationships.

Dude/Dudette ... If you have to qualify the "loving consensual relationship" part with "to the extent possible within the institution of slavery", then you should readily admit that your argument if for sh!t.

In addition, Jefferson's Black descendants joined the Sons/Daughters of the Revolution and seem to be proud to have Thomas Jefferson as an ancestor.

Perhaps you should read up on the 50+ year, multi-generational fight the family of Hemmings fought to join the S/DAR ... and for sh!ts and giggles, perhaps you should read up on the hemmings fight to gain admission to the Jefferson family reunions.

In addition, Free people of Color, who lived in this country since its inceptions,,
frequently owned their OWN black slaves.

Why does this slavery apologist narrative always pop up in discussions of the racist institution of slavery. Perhaps you should research WHY the vast majority of those slave owning Blacks owned slaves. Hint: It had nothing to do with getting free labor (and lovers).

[whathehell]

140. Wow..I AM, and I DO know about the fifty year fight of the Hemmings to be

recognized - I'm glad they did, as they were obviously being discriminated against -- It

should have all come to light centuries ago.

My question to you is why in HELL would you imagine me to be a "slavery apologist"?

because I am open, like many others, to the "possibility", nothing more, that the

Hemming/ Jefferson relationship may have had SOME aspects of consensuality, within the

unquestionably hideous institution of slavery?

I'm open to that possibility only because, as mentioned, history and scholarship have

shown us that Human relationships are VERY complicated -- I'm sure you've

heard of the Stockholm Syndrome -- something which would resemble such a relationship.

That, 1Strong, is a FAR cry from being a 'slavery apologist", so I think you

might want to put down the broad brush -- I'm not only NOT a "slavery apologist",

I FAVOR Reparations for slavery and for hundreds of years of Discrimination and Jim Crow.

I hope we understand each other a little better now.

[1StrongBlackMan]

148. Again ...

when you have to qualify "aspects of consensuality, within the unquestionably hideous institution of slavery", your argument is completely fallacious, and lost, from the start.

I'm open to that possibility only because, as mentioned, history and scholarship have

shown us that Human relationships are VERY complicated -- I'm sure you've

heard of the Stockholm Syndrome -- something which would resemble such a relationship.

Do you read what you write? The above kind of negates the concept of "consent." Right?

I'm not only NOT a "slavery apologist",

I FAVOR Reparations for slavery and for hundreds of years of Discrimination and Jim Crow.

Yeah ... Okay!

[Generic Other]

166. Even putting race aside

she was his dead wife's much younger half sister and was said to resemble her. There is a macabre Gothic feel to that scenario that makes Jefferson seem to have a major character flaw. That he of all people could not acknowledge the hypocrisy of his actions.

If this was to have been a consensual relationship, Mr. Jefferson would have freed his wife's kin and asked her to marry him. That would have been the honorable thing to do. And this was the flaw in his character that makes him a tragic hero in my opinion.

[KingCharlemagne]

25. 4 redeeming interludes to your narrative of (mostly valid) despair:

1) John Brown's raid on Harper's Ferry in 1859
2) The Battle of Gettysburg and the Gettysburg Address
3) Martin Luther King, Jr.'s "I Have a Dream Speech"
4) Occupy Wall Street.

Oh, yeah, forgot this little jewel that may promise the tiniest bit of redemption for this benighted land (worth your taking the time to read, I think - makes me cry every time I do):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Lewis_Moore

[malaise]

32. And that's pretty much the truth in most places across

the planet. Human beings suck.

[KG]

34. pretty much sums it up.

[brush]

79. Talk about nailing it!

You are so on the money I hesitate to respond to the OP by stating that the Boomer generation was always two main factions vying each other — the anti-war and civil rights activists vs the young repugs and their ilk — and it continues to this day.

So called moderates also are in the mix but they are really right-leaning, corporatist, DNC types.

[UglyGreed]

103. Great reply

thank you!

[LeftyMom]

104. The era they're pining for was propped up by the devastation of Europe and Asia.

The US was putting out a huge percentage of the world's manufactured goods in the postwar period and that led to unprecedented prosperity. And unless somebody's got another world war in their pocket (and even less likely- if they can convince US politicians to mostly sit a war out) that's never, ever going to happen again.

It was a historical accident and it's done. Get over it.

[1StrongBlackMan]

125. As the quote I found online, months ago notes ...

Revolutionaries are rarely as opposed to the system, as they are with their place in the system.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

160. How do you feel about immigration?

America, as you describe it, seems to be the kind of place we would want people to leave, not enter. Yet, plenty of people of color seem intent on coming here. Do you support them coming to a land of, "Slavery, racism, misogyny. imperialism, corporatism, war, war, war, war, war" or do you think they should be kept out for their own good?

[Number23]

181. Amen.

You can always tell how white, wealthy and/or clueless someone is by how loudly they pine for "The Good Old Days"

[Peacetrain]

6. Oh please.. seriously..the generation wars again

Baby boomers.. I do not even know where to start listing all that we did to change the dynamics of this country..

And every generation blames the one behind it for being a lazy bum.. Being a baby boomer.. you should have read the crap that came down on our heads when we were 20 somethings.

Every generation has a job.. and they can accomplish so much.. and in the process other failures will be revealed..

The next generation picks up that mantle and does their job to try and move it along'

We early boomers are a war generation.. Every single male in my graduating class that could not get into college..went to Vietnam..

You can thank us for our generation for having the option to choose service.. or not.. but it is not forced servitude..

Voting rights..

Rights for all groups being addressed.

The burgeoning awareness of our planets needs..

On and on and on..

And each generation contributes to the betterment.. and some times we take steps back.. but then all pull together and go forward again.

There WILL NEVER BE A TIME.. that perfection is reached.. and ground in not lost that needs to be recovered..

But we are always making that next move forward.. through each generation addressing the needs they have at that time..and putting their stamp on their accomplishments or things they have done to take us forward..

[Andy823]

13. It's all about keeping the pot stirred up

Last edited Mon Oct 20, 2014, 02:03 PM - Edit history (1)

Seems that we see more and more posts here that are simply trying to keep the arguments going, from this baby boomer crap to both parties are the same, and a whole lot of there stuff in between. We have some old timers who are great at keeping things stirred up, and a whole lot of newbies that are trying to do the same thing. It's all about keeping a division going here on DU, and sadly it seems to be working.

[Le Taz Hot]

33. But what have we done for them lately?

At least we have accomplishments to point to.

[raccoon]

40. Thank you. nt

[Demit]

7. Baby boomers, by virtue of their very numbers, faced mucho competition for jobs

in that thriving and open job market. Which tended to depress salaries. Not everybody won.

I'm not going to click the link to read the whole thing; there are enough breezy generalizations in this excerpt to convey what a crock of nonsense the article is. The advantages boomers had, that millennials don't have today, were balanced out by disadvantages that millennials don't have today.

I can only wish I knew "unprecedented prosperity" when I was coming of age.

[Gormy Cuss]

93. The second half of the boomers in particular faced crazy competition.

Also, the Salon offer seems to think that the Boomers were the first generation of the great middle class. Nope, that was the post WWII economy AKA the *parents* of the boomers. Many boomers started off on more solid footing because of this but it didn't last --- boomers saw defined benefit pensions become rare, were asked to pay much more in Social Security and to wait before being eligible to collect benefits, where other benefits eroded, where manufacturing jobs disappeared, and experienced the shift in the economy where jobs were no longer careers. For older boomer men there was the very real risk of dying in the jungles of Southeast Asia.

Yup, boomers had everything handed to them.


And who's blaming millenials ?

[marions ghost]

107. ditto that

--yeah where was that unprecedented prosperity? Not in my neighborhood.

And then the Reagan years....

[NOLALady]

9. I'm a "baby boomer".

"Baby boomers came of age in an era of unprecedented prosperity. They were raised by parents who had survived poverty, war and the true sacrifice of a generation burdened with great moral struggles. As a whole, they experienced economic and physical security. Baby boomers received, by today’s standards, inexpensive and widely available education, preparing them for a thriving and open job market. Success at the beginning created a strong foundation for financial and personal success on a level the world had never known."

I have no idea what they are talking about. There was no "unprecedented prosperity" in my community. The majority of our parents couldn't even vote.

[bobclark86]

55. "White suburban baby boomers came of age in an era of unprecedented prosperity."

There, I fixed it for you.

[whathehell]

156. Let me relieve you of some of your misconceptions..

Every "white boomer" didn't grow up in the suburbs -- not even nearly everyone.

I grew up in a blue collar family in the city. I went to overcrowded schools and

worked my way through a public university, something that would be much harder

to do in today's economy.

[bobclark86]

165. Thats... nice?

That's why I was fixing the statement of the poster above me... noting that life still sucked for poor people, minorities, blue-collar types, etc. But if you lived in Leave it to Beaverville, it shore was swell, by golly!

[whathehell]

175. I'm sorry, I took your comment out of context.

I see what you were doing now. Gracias.

[starroute]

69. An era of unprecedented prosperity that was fizzling by 1974

If there's a problem with the Boomers, it's misplaced expectations. Our parents raised us with the expectation that things were going to be like the 1950s and 60s forever. That all we had to do was find a steady job, get a career going, and maybe save up a little to invest in the stock market and we'd be able to live comfortably and see our wealth grow and grow so that we could launch our own kids into the world and then enjoy retirement.

That's the way it had been for them -- at least once they'd survived the Depression and World War II -- and they assured us it would be the same for us, only better because we wouldn't have the rough patches at the beginning.

Only it wasn't. Or it was to some extent for the older Boomers -- but by the time those born after 1955 were getting out of college, it was already a lot harder. And things got really tough everywhere under Reagan, when it became necessary to have a two-income family just to do what our parents had done on one, and then when even that wasn't enough to pay off the mortgage and send the kids to college without loans and also plump up the IRA.

My own generation has its flaws -- which I was quite aware of by the time I was in high school. But they're mainly the flaws of having been raised to inherit a world that no longer exists. We didn't create today's world -- we mostly got blindsided by it.

[amandabeech]

75. You're absolutely right.

The economy was awful from about 1974 on (I think that the market crashed in '74, together with my parents savings for my college). The inflation, the oil shocks and high interest rates (which were related) really took out the economy in the early '80s. Then there was yet another stock market crash in '87 followed by the savings and loan disaster and the junk bond disaster that was doing on during Bush I.

The one thing that clearly was better for us was the cost of college. My tuition at one of the Big Ten schools was $400-$450 per semester. Now that looks like an absolute steal! I didn't have to take on debt until grad school, and I had $12,000 to pay off, which I was able to do, but sometimes I had to scrape to do it. Tuition is simply ridiculous now, and I hope that something can be done to lessen that load.

[marions ghost]

108. Reagan undermined everything

--we should be in sympathy with the Millennials. We got Reagan, they got Boosh.

This generational divide is manufactured for business & political reasons.

They don't want us to be allies--too dangerous politically.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

10. Young wolves, show us your teeth. John Steinbeck

[snooper2]

12. I'm GenX as well, and I'm tired of Millennials and Boomers USING THE PHONE WHEN DRIVING

Boomers are driving 10 below the speed limit yapping, really, your hair appointment ISN'T that important. I guess they are making up for not being able to talk on the phone in the 60's LOL.

Then we have Millennials texting non fucking stop- Everyday I'll see someone driving to high school at stoplight around the corner writing a fucking book on their phone.


The only people paying attention are in their 30's and 40's. If it wasn't for us there would be 10 times the accidents out there. I guess it helps growing up WITH the technology

[Gidney N Cloyd]

64. Stop looking at the other drivers to guess their ages and watch where you're driving!

[laundry_queen]

183. Yeah. Driving is NOT for texting or chatting!

It's for cranking your tunes full blast and rockin' out to Nirvana or GnR, singing at the top of your lungs.

signed LQ - proud Gen X'er.

[SoCalDem]

14. You are a generation off..

Parents of Boomers took and took and took and retired with pensions and social security//
once "they had it all", they pulled the ladder up behind them, and voted against their own progeny's future..

Older folks have always voted more than younger ones, and even though there were more of us, they were the "bosses of us all", and they made damned sure that the bonuses that they all readily accepted, were not going to be available to anyone after them.

It was no accident that just as boomers got their families/careers started, WE were the ones who had our FICA doubled to make sure our elders had a secure retirement and we were PREPAYING for our own.

Of course, in OUR working careers, we mostly had unions/pensions eliminated so all we could hope for was to try and save for ourselves.

And since our own kids could not afford college, we also were expected to save for that too..and of course we still have to help our elderly parents.. The boomers are the squeezed generation...

No one here in the USA (except for a few lucky ones) will ever have an easy time of it..

[whathehell]

21. I'm sorry, but I have to disagree...The parents of the Boomers were

the generation that voted for the decidedly very liberal FDR for FOUR terms.

They "took and took"?!..The truth is, they GAVE and GAVE, during the Depression and

World War II -- They're not known as the "Greatest Generation" for nothing.

In addition, their LEGACY was the New Deal Democratic party of strong unions,

Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Veterans Benefits and Unemployment Benefits.

I don't know if you can lay the "blame" on present day America on

any ONE generation, but I know it wasn't that of the Boomers parents.

[Maeve]

31. It all depends on which boomers and which parents

I'm a mid-Boomer, born 1955. My parents were kids during the Depression and WWII; they graduated high school in 1950-51 and my older brother was born before either of them could vote. Not all the Boomer parents were "Greatest Generation" by a long shot.

[whathehell]

38. One Size never fits all..

It sounds like you were disappointed in your parents -- That's unfortunate.

[Maeve]

41. Not in the least! Not sure where you got that from the simple facts I posted...

But they weren't "Greatest Generation" and they did benefit from the post-war boom more than my brother and I benefited from the inflation and high interest rates we met when we came of age.

[tabbycat31]

70. None of my grandparents could vote for FDR

And my parents are classic boomers (born 1949). Their parents were born in 1924-1930 and none were old enough to vote during FDR's tenure.

Interestingly enough, my grandparents (the ones still alive) are the ones encouraging me to further my political career as opposed to my parents.

[whathehell]

88. Again, one size never fits all,

and if their parents couldn't vote for FDR, one, at least, could vote for Truman, who largely adhered to his agenda.

[truebluegreen]

81. I'm a Boomer.

The first presidential election my dad--a WWII vet--got to vote was in was 1948; my mother 4 years later (she was only 20 in 1948).

So, yeah, your math is mostly off: the previous generation voted for FDR four times, and some of the oldest of the boomers' parents.

BTW, as a boomer I graduated high school in 1973 (the youngest of 3); by the time I got out of college the economy was in deep trouble (ever hear of stagflation?) and St. Ronnie's revolution was looming on the horizon. Doubling social security was a MAJOR hit, and it landed solidly on the middle class--if I hear any more about the great Grand Bargain I'll puke.

Who was running the country in the 70s and 80s? Not the Boomers, thanks very much--it was our parents...and just incidentally, no one was nastier to returning Vietnam vets than vets of the Greatest Generation (they won their war) so I wouldn't blow that particular horn so loudly. Read some history, not propaganda.

[whathehell]

95. Yeah, one of the younger ones...

I always thought categorizing people born within the time frame of 1945 to 1964 as being
in the same "generation" was a huge mistake -- That time frame SPANNED a generation, and the experiences, not only of those on either end of the spectrum, but those of even six years difference, were very different.

As to "who was running the country" in the 70's and 80's, of COURSE it wasn't the boomers -- Twenty Somethings rarely get to run countries -- What I said was that they made a big IMPACT on it, and yes, I'm speaking of the older boomers -- As mentioned, the time span given this generation was preposterously wide.

BTW, bitching about the way many of the WWII Vets viewed the Vietnam Vets doesn't
merit a particularly loud horn, either; they weren't perfect, and given that Vietnam
was our first large scale guerilla war and quite different from WWII, it's not suprising that they misunderstood it.

I don't need to "read" the history of that time, bro, I LIVED it -- Feel free to go back
to the Whine Fest.

[truebluegreen]

143. Not younger--right in the middle of the pack.

"Generations" are generally pegged at 19 years, but don't let that blow your theory. The whole point of your post is that my parents' generation were The Greatest, and they voted for FDR 4 times...except they didn't.

But hey, just keep thinking! That's what you're good at.

[truebluegreen]

146. Incidentally, a "generation" is usually defined as the amount of time

between the birth of the parents and the birth of the children. By that measure, in our modern society 19 years is too short, not too long. But if you want to whine, take it up with the statisticians.

Have a great day, "Bro"!

[whathehell]

151. No shit, sherlock..

The time span given for a generation is roughly twenty years -- I gave you 19,

hardly "too short" a time in which a parent's child can have a kid of their own,

"in our modern society".

While you're learning to COUNT, you may also want to try READING, as I'm not

the one who was "whining" -- I was responding to the "whine" of the OP, duh.

[TeeYiYi]

24. Good post! ..nt

TYY

[Maeve]

44. What you say is particularly true for late Boomers

Those of us born in the mid-1950's to 1965. The rules of the workplace changed and what we were told to expect just didn't work anymore. We were also the ones who got downsized in the Dubya Downturn and many still haven't recovered--over-50's don't get hired as easily.

But it's not just one generation and no one group deserves all the blame. There's plenty to go around and not much point in doing so. Better to figure out how we can ALL fix this mess.

[Art_from_Ark]

100. +1

Things started to change drastically starting around the mid-70s, and not for the better. That's around the time that "Rust Belt" started coming into widespread use.

[Warpy]

78. Thank you. I've always said it was the generation born during the late 20s and 30s

who were too young to be scarred by the Depression, too young to partake in the "glory" of WWII and too old for the party in the 60s who did much of the damage to us. Drafted into a peacetime military, they had no reason to doubt any of the propaganda and voted solidly GOP and regarded Reagan as a saint when he came along. They were joined by some of the WWII generation, the younger cohort of Boomers, and the Gen Xers who were old enough to vote.

No one generation is capable of wrecking a country for the generations to come, but this coalition had a damned good try at it.

Don't forget that the oldest Boomers came of age during Vietnam and their first election was given to Nixon, a man who provided the hothouse to nurture the Reagan gang and began the great tradition of Republican racketeering under the happy name of "dirty tricks."

I'm not putting blame on whole generations here, I know too many great lefties who were born before and after the Boomers came along. However, Nixon's "silent majority" bears much of the blame, whatever generation they were born into.

[J_J_]

135. +100000

nt

[RadiationTherapy]

17. The boomers ate America.

It was an accident. No one did the math of consumption x population.

[cali]

18. I get so sick of stupid. No generation "ruined" the U.S.

These kinds of generalizations are inevitably bullshit. This one is no exception.

[Ampersand Unicode]

22. At least Boomers aren't illiterate

...whereas Millennials can't seem to focus their attention span on anything longer than 140 characters. Especially if it's mostly text and no cat videos, troll memes or clip art.

Boomers didn't give us the expression "TL;DR" which stands for "Too long; didn't read."

[snooper2]

27. not true, facts suck LOL

National Assessment of Adult Literacy (NAAL)

http://nces.ed.gov/naal/lit_history.asp

During the 1940s and 1950s, the more highly educated younger cohorts began to make their mark on the average for the entire adult population. More than half of the young adults of the 1940s and 1950s completed high school and the median educational attainment of 25- to 29-years-olds rose to 12 years. By 1960, 42 percent of males, 25 years old and over, still had completed no more than the eighth grade, but 40 percent had completed high school and 10 percent had completed 4 years of college. The corresponding proportion for women completing high school was about the same, but the proportion completing college was somewhat lower.

During the 1960s, there was a rise in the educational attainment of young adults, particularly for blacks. Between 1960 and 1970, the median years of school completed by black males, 25- to 29-years-old, rose from 10.5 to 12.2. From the middle 1970s to 1991, the educational attainment for all young adults remained very stable, with virtually no change among whites, blacks, males or females. The educational attainment average for the entire population continued to rise as the more highly educated younger cohorts replaced older Americans who had fewer educational opportunities.

In 1991, about 70 percent of black and other races males and 69 percent of black and other races females had completed high school. This is lower than the corresponding figures for white males and females (80 percent). However, the differences in these percentages have narrowed appreciably in recent years. Other data corroborate the rapid increase in the education level of the minority population. The proportion of black and other races males with 4 or more years of college rose from 12 percent in 1980 to 18 percent in 1991, with a similar rise for black and other races females.

Percentage of persons 14 years old and over who were illiterate (unable to read or write in any language), by race and nativity: 1870 to 1979

Year Total Total Native White Foreign-born Black & Other
1870 20.0 11.5 – – 79.9
1880 17.0 9.4 8.7 12.0 70.0
1890 13.3 7.7 6.2 13.1 56.8
1900 10.7 6.2 4.6 12.9 44.5
1910 7.7 5.0 3.0 12.7 30.5
1920 6.0 4.0 2.0 13.1 23.0
1930 4.3 3.0 1.6 10.8 16.4
1940 2.9 2.0 1.1 9.0 11.5
1947 2.7 1.8 – – 11.0
1950 3.2 – – – –
1952 2.5 1.8 – – 10.2
1959 2.2 1.6 – – 7.5
1969 1.0 0.7 – – 3.6 *
1979 0.6 0.4 – – 1.6 *
* Based on black population only
SOURCE: U.S. Department of Commerce, Bureau of the Census, Historical Statistics of the United States, Colonial Times to 1970; and Current Population Reports, Series P-23, Ancestry and Language in the United States: November 1979. (This table was prepared in September 1992.)

[alp227]

45. mere literacy isn't a measure of smarts.

nor does it measure critical thinking, among other factors. why do bad ideas spread on social media so fast?

[jeff47]

49. Because we no longer have to wait for the newsletter to arrive in the mail.

Bad ideas are not a new invention. They spread quite well among previous generations.

[Ampersand Unicode]

171. Critical thinking can't be measured in 140 characters.

Especially if the words aren't even spelled right. "TXT U L8R" is not a complete sentence.

And maybe social media itself is a bad idea.

[LiberalElite]

19. Ah, but Millenials blaming Boomers is OK Now I get it.

"Success at the beginning created a strong foundation for financial and personal success on a level the world had never known."
What generalized hogwash. He has a godamned nerve to say he's tired of the blame-shifting.

My employer froze contributions to our pension in 2007. That means several hundred dollars a month I WON'T be getting and with damn little time to make up for it in savings. But I'm a Boomer so I must be OK.

[Ampersand Unicode]

20. I'm millennial and I hate millennial culture.

I don't see what understanding their recession-era economic plight has to do with hating selfies, memes, or social media. I don't see what the economy has to do with how their "music" sucks ass. I don't see what the economy has to do with how their phony-baloney "actors" are all style and no substance (sorry "peeps," J-Law is overrated and she really only won the Oscar for being "cute&quot . I don't see what the economy has to do with the patently disgusting trend of wearing LEOTARDS AS PANTS.

You can't blame the economy for the fact that Millennials get their "news" from a Facebook "news" feed. Student loan debt has nothing to do with the fact that this generation considers "Tiffany Jones got a mani-pedi! 2,945 people Liked this" an exampele of "breaking news."

You can't blame the economy for slacktivism either. Hashtagging about Ferguson while binge-watching Game of Thrones is NOT the same as joining the Million Man March and risking your life for underprivileged minorities. You can't blame the economy for complaining about NSA spying... on Facebook.

Sorry Charlie, Boomers win on a lot more fronts besides the economy. Not the least of which is how Beatles > One Direction.

[bravenak]

26. Give me a break!!!

[Ampersand Unicode]

177. You wear leotards as pants?

Or you're just not grossed out by it?

[bravenak]

179. Yes. I'm pretty shapely.

And I'm not grossed out by the human form. At all.

[laundry_queen]

184. Where were you in the 80's?

Seriously. Did you miss the bike shorts trend? this is not new.

[Inkfreak]

30. ...

"Tiffany Jones got a mani-pedi! 2,945 people Liked this" an example of "breaking news."



That made me laugh!

[jeff47]

53. Those are rather poor comparisons

First, you're comparing a generation that is retiring to the accomplishments of a generation in their 20s or younger.

Second, you're ignoring what Boomers accomplished after the mid 1970s. Probably because after that, the boomers brought about the "Reagan revolution". The core of the modern conservative movement is younger boomers and older GenX. Those are the people who dominated politics for the last 40 years, and accomplished all those tax cuts and destruction of the social safety net.

Older boomers tend to be liberal. Younger GenXers tend to be liberal. Unfortunately, we failed to form a coalition between these two groups to counter the conservative movement, and so conservatism has dominated our national politics for 40 years. You can't blame that failure on "the kids today spending too much time on Facebook" or "today's music sucks".

[Ampersand Unicode]

174. Then what can we blame for Facebook and Bieber?

I was talking more about culture rather than the economy or even politics. From what I see, my fellow college students are pretty apolitical and don't know anyone in Washington other than Obama (I was in a poli-sci class and nobody even knew the name of the First Lady, just "Mrs. Obama" -- some didn't even know the Obamas had children). I remember the Jaywalking skit from Leno (I can't abide Fallon, he drives me nuts) and it was mostly college kids who didn't know Columbus, didn't know who the Vice President was, didn't know any of the 2012 POTUS candidates or news broadcasters... but could easily identify Kim Kardashian, Jerry Springer and Justin Bieber.

The fact that Facebook even exists is a major flaw of this generation. Mark Zuckerberg is a millennial. The Twitter guy, Jack Dorsey, is very late Gen-X (born in 1976). I don't know about the other social media sites because I don't know even what their names are (the sites themselves or the CEOs). I think the Tumbler guy is still in high school or something? Regardless, even if you can't blame the economy or the rise of conservative politics on Facebook and Miley Cyrus, what can you blame Facebook, texting, and Miley Cyrus on besides Millennials' bad taste and the pride they seem to take in abject stupidity?

Not to mention slacktivism, aka clicktivism or even "Mactivism" (because Millennials ? their iGadgets and only your dad uses Windows at work). I was surprised nobody picked up on that. Why weren't these supposedly social-campaign-savvy Millennials "crowdfunding" a bus trip down to Ferguson to take part in the civil-rights protests? Because they'd rather be comfy and "protest" with hashtags and cat memes is what it sounds like to me. You're right, the millennials are still young and haven't really done much of anything yet. But we'll see if they ever do much of anything besides get a high score of superficial "friends" on their Facebook page or aspire to any other career ambitions besides "app builder." Right now, at least from my perspective, they're batting zero -- especially on the culture front.

And the Beatles are still infinitely better than Wrong Direction.

[laundry_queen]

185. Maybe it's your school

My university poli sci class was amazing. I went in as someone who had spent a decade at DU, so I was good to go and didn't even have to crack open the textbook, but I was surprised at how much my younger classmates (I'm a gen-xer that went back to school after a divorce) really did know. I'm in Canada and we discussed mostly American politics and everyone was very up to speed on everything. And my school isn't a top rated school by any means. Poli sci was an elective for me, but even my accounting major buddies and I could have a good political conversation. My teen daughters are very political and are hardcore activists, as are plenty of their friends. I think maybe you are just talking to the wrong people at school. Or something.

[NuclearDem]

56. Wow. That's the biggest load of crap I've ever read here.

[Ampersand Unicode]

173. Which part? Facebook? The music? Slacktivism?

Do you really think that if Dr. King had just sat in his house writing blog articles and "liking" stuff that anything would have been accomplished? PHYSICAL PRESENCE MATTERS. That's not to say that the written word can't change things, but that people of the Millennial generation rely way too much on "changing the world" from the comfort of their smartphone in their PJs. They click away from the Ferguson article and then post duckface selfies on Instagram. Meanwhile, real people are protesting in the streets in Missouri and risking their lives as these spoiled-brat Starbucks kids curl up and binge-watch Orange is the New Black.

Or do you agree with that and actually "like" Miley Cyrus and Justin Bieber? Or reality television? Or Jimmy Fallon?

Or do you (gasp) actually think that One Direction is as good as, if not better than, the Beatles?

[TransitJohn]

29. This divide and conquer bullshit, as expressed in the article, sucks

It generates page clicks, but it sucks for holding us back from effecting positive social change. We need to be in it together, and look out for each other.

[raccoon]

43. You beat me to it. Thanks for that post. nt

[marions ghost]

109. Truth

exactly. These are cheap divide and conquer tactics.

[RFKHumphreyObama]

186. That's precisely it

Well said

[upaloopa]

35. I was born in May of 1946. My folks lived through

the Great Depression and WWII. In the year I was born women who held war time production jobs and made good money were laid off. They were told to stay home and become a house wife's and mothers. African Americans could not enjoy the freedoms they fought for during the war. Jim Crow and segregation were in effect.
White males coming home from the War got jobs, built houses and went to school on the GI bill. Their kids, like me did have the benefits of the times. Technology was expanding. "Labor saving" devices started to appear like clothes dryers and dish washers. We got good educations and jobs but the world started changing back then. Three of our great leaders were assassinated. The civil rights movement and women's lib and the hippie culture grew. We had riots in cities all over the country. We got drafted and sent to war.
The New Deal programs were in effect but in the 60's we began to rebel against the authoritarian way of life. In the 70's the sexual revolution and experimenting with hallucinogenic drugs was happening. Inflation went through the roof. We had something called the misery index.
All this culminated in the election of Reagan and that led to the 30 years of the building of the conservative movement.
I'd say those who screwed up the country are boomers but not all of us boomers had a part in it.

[tabbycat31]

36. I'm a borderline millennial

And the thing that irks me the most about the boomers is that they don't understand the world they left us. Sure, in your day you could pay for college with a part-time job in the summer waiting tables. We get that. Whooptie Doo. But they don't understand that if their children tried to pay for college waiting tables that it's just not possible anymore (given the wages of servers and the cost of college).

They're also voting to defund programs that benefited them when they needed it (public education when their kids were school age, etc) and then complaining about it. I've talked to many a baby boomer voter at the door and I get "my kids are grown and gone, why should I have to pay school taxes?' (I have yet to talk to a voter over 70 who said this to me). There's now legalized housing discrimination in favor of baby boomers (called 'active adult' or 55+ communities free of those pesky rugrats on your lawn). Things that many boomers took for granted (employee benefits, decent paying jobs, employers training employees, manufacturing in America, pensions, etc) that are not available to the next generation. And I'm not blaming boomers for it 100% as their elders also voted for Reagan (depending on who you ask, the first millennials were infants when Reagan was elected and years away from voting) and jump started this. But there's many a boomer CEO who benefits from this (Mitt Romney). They also think that just because you graduated from college and have 'that piece of paper' that it is an automatic ticket to prosperity. I guess they have not met the barista with an engineering degree. And they wonder why we're not buying houses when many have mortgage size student loan debt.

Are there some good boomers? Absolutely. But the same generation that gave us Elizabeth Warren gave us George W. Bush. And maybe it's my area but the ones I know and have talked to are more of the Bush type.

Yet there's all these boomers that complain that millennials are entitled because we use phones that don't plug into a wall.

I'm the child of boomers, many of the things I've mentioned above have come straight out of the mouths of my parents or their friends.

[jeff47]

48. The generational lines and political lines don't quite match.

Older boomers tend to be liberals. They voted against Reagan.

Younger boomers and older GenX tend to be conservative. They voted for Reagan. It's this group that forms the core of the modern conservative movement, including Reagan.

Younger GenX tend to be liberal. They couldn't vote until Reagan was out of office.
Millennials haven't been voting for long enough yet to establish a good trend.

As a result, you're going to run into a lot of Boomers that say "I got mine, screw everyone else". You're also going to run into a lot of boomers who are the exact opposite. The first will tend to be younger, the latter will tend to be older.

You'll see that same "I got mine" from older GenX, and the opposite from younger GenX. Unfortunately, younger GenX and older boomers didn't form a counter-coalition to boost liberal ideas, so we have our current conservative and "DLC"-dominated national politics.

It appears that older millennials are forming a liberal coalition with younger GenX, due to how shitty conservative policies have been to the young. That is starting to have an effect in local elections, and will take a while to percolate up to national politics....assuming it continues. Young GenX "tuned out" when we couldn't get anyone to pay attention to our issues - it's not like college was cheap and minimum wage was high in the 1990s. We'll see if those two groups can sustain a coalition long enough to get it into power.

[tabbycat31]

68. I could be either gen x or millennial depending on who you ask

(Born in 1980) but as the oldest (and very sheltered) child of the family, I identify much more with my younger peers. I didn't know who Nirvana was until Kurt Cobain died (I found out on an 8th grade field trip). I was 7 months old when Reagan was elected and a 3rd grader when he left office so I am not one to remember his administration. I'm not old enough to have voted for (Bill) Clinton. My first presidential election was Bush/Gore.

I know very few people under 40 who have the 'I got mine' mentality.

The reason that younger people don't have most of the powers that be paying attention to their issues is that they don't vote in large enough numbers, especially compared to their older peers. I haven't done a study, but I will put my money down saying that politicians pander more to seniors than they do to young voters. Seniors vote in large numbers and they know it. Save for Elizabeth Warren, how many senators do you see talking about student loan debt?

ANd in addition, most younger people don't feel that the 'entitlements' (I hate to use this word) that their elders have (SS, Medicare, etc) will be around for them when the time comes so they're at most apathetic about them (I've been guilty of this myself) and at worst seeing it as seniors robbing their paycheck.

With local elections it can be even harder, even though that's where we're needed the most. Many people only pay attention to those at the top of the ballot, and when local elections are not held with November elections (my state moved forward and many locals have been moved to November) the turnout is even lower. I'm actually contemplating running for town council myself and if I ran in 2 years and won, I'd be the youngest to serve in this town (I'll be 36).

What's really needed is a new generation of politicians that are not boomers. Right now the frontrunner for the Democratic nomination in 2016 is a boomer (born 1947). And the two challengers that DU mentions the most to her are a boomer (1949) and a silent (1941). I'd LOVE to see some younger blood in the race. (The GOP field is all over the place so I'm not mentioning it). (I didn't mention names but any regular should know. Years of birth were off their wiki pages--- while wiki's not always accurate DOB should be). Can we at the very least have a Democrat born in the 50s to run?

Of the current House (as of January 2013) only 33 are under 40. Only 1 senator is under 40 (he is now 41 so that makes none in the senate). The youngest member of the House was born in 1983 and Senate 1973, both Democrats). In previous generations, people did get elected under the age of 40 (both my current and former congressman are both in their 60s and were initially elected in their 30s). According to Wiki (again take it with a grain of salt) there are 16 members of the House born in the 30s (4 in the 20s) and 7 in the 80s. I think that by 34 (the oldest of those born in the 80s) you are perfectly capable of serving in Congress.

[jeff47]

113. They pander to "seniors" because that has been the coalition in power

for the last 40 years. Young boomer + older GenX is the voting block that got Republicans elected on their "values and cuts" platform.

When young GenX and older boomers failed to form a coalition to oppose them, that conservative bloc became the important group. And today, they're "Seniors".

Everything else you cite about politicians being older flows from that dynamic. Young GenX gave up because we couldn't get our issues heard, and we couldn't get elected to office on them. So we didn't replace the boomers/older GenX.

I'm actually contemplating running for town council myself

Run.

What's really needed is a new generation of politicians that are not boomers. Right now the frontrunner for the Democratic nomination in 2016 is a boomer (born 1947). And the two challengers that DU mentions the most to her are a boomer (1949) and a silent (1941).

That's 'cause to be a reasonable candidate for the top of the ticket you have to win lower on the ticket. With young GenX tuning out, younger candidates didn't win lower on the ticket. Resulting in the gaping hole you describe.

We need to fill that hole. Step 1: local races. That expands the pool of who is a "legitimate" candidate for the House and state legislatures. Which then make them a "legitimate" candidate for the Senate and governor. Which then make them a "legitimate" candidate for President.

We're not going to fix it by 2016, obviously. We should have started working on it in the 1990s, but we failed to do so. So it's time to start working on it now.

[tabbycat31]

117. Most of the GOP frontrunners are Gen X

Chris Christie, Bobby Jindal, Paul Ryan, Scott Walker, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, Rand Paul. Even throw Sarah Palin into that mix.

The only non boomer Dem candidates I see are Julian Castro (IMO more likely to be selected as VP than throw his hat into the race) and Martin O'Malley (1963). Andrew Cuomo is a late boomer (1957) and could throw himself in if Hillary does not.

Of the Democrats in the senate born after 1960, the only two I see aspiring to higher office are Kirsten Gillibrand and Cory Booker. Of the current governors, there are no rising stars within the party. Is the next Barack Obama (who in 2003 was a little known state senator) out there in a statehouse? Perhaps, but we need to find him/her and get him/her running for a statewide office.

As for me running, that depends where my career will take me over the next two years. It's also an unpaid position. Me running for anything higher than council is out until at least 2021 (if I don't move) because I'm in state legislative and congressional districts gerrymandered for Republicans and don't want to be a sacrificial lamb. I've been asked to run for mayor before but I turned it down.

[jeff47]

118. You'll note I kept using "Older" in front of GenX when describing the conservative coalition

The generational lines drawn by marketing departments don't coincide with shifts in political ideology.

Hence the GenX conservatives you cited - they're older.

And the lack of GenX liberals - younger GenX gave up on politics. So we didn't replace the liberal older Boomers.

[tabbycat31]

121. There's a group in my state

That supports Democrats running for office (at all levels) if they're under 40. (This is a state with only 3.5 statewide elected officials so it will be a ways to go until we get a statewide). We need groups like that everywhere and if Gen X gave up on politics, it's time for the kids to step forward.

My county chair got his position at the age of 27. We need more like that.

[Bluenorthwest]

77. I hate to point this out, but Elizabeth Warren voted for Reagan every time, then for Bush

she was a Republican, she supported all they did and all they did not do. She and her Party, the Republican Party, did their best to destroy my community. She's exactly who gave us Bush, she voted for the first one over Bill Clinton.

[tabbycat31]

80. But she woke up and left the party

I didn't mean to single her out, I just pointed to a progressive politician who is a baby boomer.

I don't fault her for leaving the GOP or changing her beliefs. Most people do not have the same political beliefs for their entire lives. They evolve over time. I know I don't have the same political beliefs as I did when I came of age. In my first federal election, I even voted for a Republican for US Senate (he ended up losing thankfully) and voted for a presidential candidate because he had the same birthday as me. I'm a long way from that.

[cherokeeprogressive]

39. I'm never quite sure just which group I'm supposed to be hatin' on...

I need some kind of chart I guess. Maybe a daily calendar.

[LondonReign2]

60. That's the beuaty of being GenX

We get to hate on BOTH groups. Woooo!

Of course, being essentially invisible, no one will notice anyway...

[AwakeAtLast]

106. 'Cause Lord knows we didn't do anything

literally!

Up top fellow GenXer!

[Initech]

42. Hey I'm from that generation. We didn't elect and reelect Ronald Reagan.

Just saying.

[Iggo]

46. Not this shit again!

[Art_from_Ark]

96. Some people just like stirring up the chamberpot

[raccoon]

47. This post is rude, disruptive and otherwise over the top. "Divide and conquer."

A tried and true strategy.

[Brigid]

52. My deepest apologies . . .

For being born in 1958.

[Iggo]

54. I know, right?

[ProfessorGAC]

116. You Should Apologize, Brigid

Now those of us born before 1957 have nothing for which to apologize.
GAC

[Le Taz Hot]

57. Honey, I've marched my ass off,

gotten involved in countless causes/campaigns, written letters, registered voters, sat in, volunteered and voted for the last 40 years. I don't know what the fuck else I'm supposed to do but, apparently all the troubles of the world are my fault.

[Cleita]

58. It was St. Ronnie and his enablers who fucked things up. None of them

were baby boomers but a generation or two earlier.

[loyalsister]

84. The yuppies among the boomers

got their "greed is good" values from the Reagan revolution (they were a very large voting block when he was elected). They passed the materialism and self entitlement on to older gen xers. These are my parents, their friends, and my classmates.

I grew up in an expanding suburb in the 80s, and the excess and superficial values were as advertised. It seems that just about everyone I went to HS with was obsessed with money beginning in elementary school. Not much has changed for many of them. They also absorbed the religious right rhetoric that was building at the time, as some of the boomers were shamed into believing they had sinned themselves toward hell in the 60s.

There is plenty of blame to go around. When it comes to generations behind the boomers, let's not forget who raised them. One philosophical problem came with the awareness self esteem and misguided ways to help promote it. The "you can be anything you want if you try hard enough" message resulted in an assumption that the loftiest goals are within reach.

There are subsets in every generation that contribute to the good and the bad.

[winter is coming]

59. This generational pseudoscience stuff is bullshit.

I detest the labels and the lazy thinking that goes along with them.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

61. Please stop with the generational bashing thing.

It not accurate, not informative and not interesting. To say that millions of individuals, born between two arbitrary dates, somehow drove the car in the ditch is simply not plausible. If we want to blame someone let's look to those who control the wealth and power in this country- the 1% or more accurately the 0.001%......

[MineralMan]

62. Ageism sucks. It truly does.

Please don't engage in it, if you don't mind.

[UglyGreed]

216. Now that the dust has settled....

I did not say I agreed with the article, I just know there are many generations who post here and thought it would be interesting to see what everyone had to say.

I am a GenXer with all my siblings being Boomers born many years ahead of me. My parents were both born in the twenties which I guess they are a part of the greatest generation, if they allow displaced people from other countries to be members.

I thought my don't shoot me comment would of covered that, but it seems I failed again.

[Blue_In_AK]

63. Here we go again.

I chose to be born in 1946 just so I could fuck with you youngsters. if needed.

Jeez, Louise.

[War Horse]

65. I actually think there's a lot of truth to this

I get what people are saying about pitting generations against one another, but in the boomer age you *could* make your way in the world by getting a job and working your way up by working hard. My grandfather's friend started on the floor (by sweeping the floor, as he put it) in GM, and ended, proudly, up in middle management some time in the 60's. Here retired in the early 1980's. He was very proud of his retirement package, that he'd worked so hard for.

I vividly remember him returning to Norway in the mid 1980's and lambasting this country for being socialist, and that we'd never come up like something like GM, that could support you in your old age.

[librechik]

66. Look the War Party ruined us, not any generation. Folks who want all our treasure for Eternal War

have been plaguing us from the beginning. By focusing on the Boomer Generation of War Party criminals, you are again misdirecting the discourse.

[LanternWaste]

67. Nobody ever points their fingers at the generation of 1828 and blames them.

Nobody ever points their fingers at the generation of 1828 and blames them. Bastards... all of 'em! And lemme tell ya, the generation that was borne of 1466 was pretty crappy too... but they also get a free pass.

[CanSocDem]

71. I think we made a mistake...

...from a boomers perspective, when we decided that ALL our children were praiseworthy- whatever they did.




.

[Art_from_Ark]

102. It's all Doctor Spock's fault!

[Tuesday Afternoon]

74. sounds like some very creative speculation to me. Conspiracy Theories Group meets down

[Warpy]

76. All generation bashing is ugly

We all got handed a world that was fucked up by the last generation and we all were stymied from making things better by those preceding generations.

Except that boomers are the ones who blew the lid off institutionalized racism, sexism, homophobia, and other "isms" that were keeping too many people from a share in the American dream. We did manage to do this.

That a cabal of greedy men bought the government and the media and were able to destroy the New Deal protections was not our fault. There is little way to fight that kind of money when you have no access to media, and that kind of money thought decent wages = inflation.

That has changed with the coming of the net. Progressives were completely drowned out by wingnuts just 20 years ago. However, we've been damned good at getting a lot of the message out to fence sitters and apolitical people, especially those too young to remember just what the New Deal had done for us: given us the best deal working people ever had.

The evolution has been painfully slow but it's happening.

[CountAllVotes]

82. Very true Warpy

I'd recommend your post if I could as you've nailed it.

This greedism, agesim, gernerationism, etc. does no good but to divide and conquer and fester hate!

[jen63]

89. I agree.

There's a reason some of the country is liberal and some are wing nuts. It has nothing to do with age. I was born the last year of the boomers and should be one of those "two term Reagan voters", but I'm not. My son is a very young millennial and is fiscally and socially liberal. He was also a Valedictorian when he graduated two years ago. 16% of his graduating class was. That was unheard of when I graduated. We had one Valedictorian per class. His had 64!!!! These are NOT "lazy, selfish" kids.

My parents are 24/7 Fox watchers and get more hateful by the year. Generalizations are just that. If we could base this solely on generations, there would be no need for liberals and conservatives for jeebus' sake. It's very harmful, especially among liberals; we have enough differences to blame each other for, without adding this to the mix. The sooner we realize it's 1% against the rest, the better off we will be.

[Warpy]

91. Milennials are giving me a lot of hope

that eventually the stench of Reaganism will finally be blown out of our government. His appointees are all nearing retirement and a lot of his base is dying off. It will take another 30 years for Stupid's appointees to be gone even as much of his base has grown disgusted enough to hold their noses and vote either third party or (gasp!) Democratic.

[jen63]

92. Me too.

I'm hoping that the crazier the right gets, the more these kids will be pissed enough to start running for office. (or form a new party)......

[meaculpa2011]

83. In the "good old days"...

my father (a veteran of Normandy and the Battle of the Bulge) was a pieceworker in a sweatshop. When there wasn't enough work, he didn't get paid. I was lucky enough to work afternoons and Saturdays in that same shop to help pay the family expenses. I started in 1963 when I was 12 years old. My print-out from Social Security lists my FICA payments starting that year.

In the movies and on TV it was all cocktail parties and backyard BBQs.

For many it was same shit, different decade.

BTW: My Dad is now 92. His ILGWU pension is $103.50 per month.

[pnwmom]

85. The Koch brothers aren't baby boomers.

But if you want to blame a generation, you could as easily blame young people who don't bother voting as blame the baby-boomers.

[HereSince1628]

90. This boomer's education was subsidized by ~3 years of service during VN.

Say I didn't deserve.

Go Ahead. L.E.T. I.T. O.U.T.!!! Holding back is going to shorten your life.

If it makes you feel any better...mortgage rates were ~15% when I looked for my first home.

[Warpy]

94. And they went to 19%!

If you survived the Vietnam War of Corporate Convenience you had a shot at grabbing an education before OPEC wrecked the economy and the vets' benefits didn't keep up with inflation along with wages, Social Security, and all the other things we peasants rely on.

People will just not admit we've earned all these things but have been systematically robbed of them for about 40 years now.

[HereSince1628]

98. The 1st OPEC embargo happened while I was in service...

I'm one of those guys who was in at the end. I have a copy of Stars and Stripes Pacific edition, that has the headline 'CEASEFIRE!' And I've got some faded copies of the orders that took me stateside the same day the POWs were flown back to California...

Being one of the tail end vets, I spent much of my young adulthood trying to catch-up. I laugh at the concept that people in similar circumstance to me got a LOT of special breaks.

[Warpy]

99. It took a while for the whole economy to go into double digit inflation

but it was the price shock that did it, not the embargoes. Carter broke OPEC by setting up the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, but it was a little too late for the economy. Wages never came near the kind of inflation we saw back then and it's why people are living on actual starvation wages now.

[pinboy3niner]

187. As a partially disabled Vietnam vet the VA paid for my college under Vocational Rehabilitation

Full tuition, books, and a living allowance.

But with a year to go for a B.A. I had to drop out to have surgery again for my combat wounds...

A major objective of Veterans Preference in federal hiring is to help vets catch up economically to their peers who did not serve. Those who went on with college and got jobs and advanced while we were serving. They proudly displayed their university decals on their cars.

A vet I knew designed a decal for VN vets to display:




A significant portion of men of the Boomer generation served in the military in the VN era, many of them in-country. More than 10,000 women served in Vietnam as well. And many vets came back and joined the antiwar movement, even forming their own national organization--Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW).

A lot of Boomers paid their dues...in one way or another. Apart from the the disgusting generation bashing, those posts are especially offensive to many of us.

[MFrohike]

97. Cool

Even Salon is parroting the Pete Peterson line now. Guess they'll be arguing that we need to massively cut Social Security in order to save it a in a couple of weeks now.



Honestly, Americans of all ages forgot the rules of power and money. Everybody assumed all the fights were over and everything would just get better and better. We all forgot Justice Holmes' admonition: "the mode by which the inevitable comes to pass is effort."

[sendero]

105. I don't see the millenial blame game..

.... so I'm not sure where it is, and my millennial son is a student at Harvard Law so I hardly think I raised a slacker.

I hear a lot more bile aimed at the boomers, and while there certainly are a shitload of jagoff boomers, it would be ridiculous to blame a generation for anything.

It's all an accident of timing.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

110. Some of us never had any power to influence anything

Boomers were the only demographic that DIDN'T vote for Reagan.

I have never been rich or voluntarily lived in a suburb nor driven an SUV nor voted for a Republican (with one exception, Oregon Senator Mark Hatfield, due to his opposition to intervention in Central America and his advocacy for transit and the environment).

I don't hate Millennials. I think they have a raw deal.

[LiberalEsto]

112. I am a baby boomer, but not prosperous in the slightest

Blaming other generations for the dirty work of the Republican Party, the corporations and the 1% is crazy. That is exactly what they want - generations blaming each other so we don't finger the real culprits who trashed the economy and destroyed the middle class.

I grew up wearing hand-me-down clothes and sitting on furniture from the Salvation Army. We had one used car. Kids made fun of me in school at least in part because of my awful clothes and the cheap, ugly eyeglasses that were all my father could afford.

In college I had to work 2 or 3 jobs in order to be able to afford my textbooks, which I often couldn't buy until mid-semester because that's how long it took for the dining hall to process the first paycheck. My dad borrowed the tuition money from a relative for the first couple of years. Then I attended college part time for 4 years while working part-time or full-time to pay for it.

My first newspaper jobs paid miserably, even for the early 1970s -- $80 a week at one, $125 a week at another. I could never afford an apartment on my own. Even my later newspaper jobs did not pay that well. I graduated from college in the middle of a recession and it took a couple of years to find a job at a small daily newspaper.

I don't have a pension, just a small Social Security check that couldn't possibly cover rent if I were alone. I decided to go on early retirement after not being able to find work for more than 5 years after being laid off from a part time job. Fortunately my husband has a decent, if extremely stressful job.

Nearly all our furniture is from garage sales and thrift shops. So are most of my clothes - the rest are from clearance racks. I haven't gone to a movie, play or concert for many, many years. Our one car is 9 years old. We rarely eat out. Our house is almost 50 years old and needs a lot of repairs that we can't afford.

WE HAVE TO SHELL OUT ALMOST $600 a month on our kids' student loans because they dropped out of college after college and can't find decent jobs. We also pay $560 a month for one daughter's health insurance. She is 28 and has psychological problems and we've been struggling for years to get her into treatment, with little success. I think the older one, 31, has psychological issues too, but she refuses to discuss it. At least she's out of the house and getting married, but the younger one lives with us. She had a temporary job for 4 months and is waiting to hear about another job with the federal agency in 2015.

As a result, we have no savings. We will have to try to sell this house and move someplace much cheaper when my husband retires (he's a bit younger, a late baby boomer) because we will no longer be able to afford the mortgage payments.

How's that boomer prosperity working for us? Ha.

[True Blue Door]

115. Boomers were raised by TV, and believed everything TV told them. Hence Ronald Reagan.

Millennials were raised by the internet, and seemingly have no capacity for critical thinking about what they see if it appears to have general social approval. I'm not looking forward to seeing what mad Republican dictator is going to come to power who figures out how to harness that.

[Eleanors38]

120. The GOPers have us right where they want us:

Slice, dice, mince ourselves with recrimination, then wallow in self-hate. So easy for them.

[tularetom]

137. I need a chart to tell me what generation I belong to

So I'm not going to bad mouth any group yet.

I was born 3 months before Pearl Harbor.

On Edit: According to this table, I'm part of the "silent Generation", so I'll just keep my mouth shut about how baby boomers have fucked up the country.

[tabbycat31]

170. I'm different according to different charts

I was born in 1980. To some that makes me X, to others that makes me millennial. But I wish they would subdivide X and millennial the way they did for the boomers. Other charts have millennials being born as late as 2004 (I would not lump someone born in the 80s with someone born in 2004). Personally I think the people born in 2000 or later are the next generation.

For example, the youngest of the millennial generation has no recollection about 9/11 and to others, it's a moment in time that they'll know exactly where they were when it happened.

My mom was telling me that every generation has their (tragic) moment in history when they were young that they know exactly where they were and will for the rest of their life. Silent/GI had Pearl Harbor, Boomers had JFK assassination, X had the Challenger, and millennial had 9/11. I was around for the Challenger (I was in kindergarten) but have no recollection of it at all. I'm honestly wondering what the moment will be for this coming generation.

[Zorra]

139. Pew research quiz: How Milennial Are You?

http://www.pewresearch.org/quiz/how-millennial-are-you/

I'm a boomer who protested the Vietnam War, the WTO, and was involved with Occupy, and I scored a 43.

[bravenak]

141. I like that test.

I got an 87. Don't even know what that's supposed to mean, really.

[Populist_Prole]

144. Got a 46. Makes be midway between an X-er and Millenial

Which is fine with me since that's the way I feel culturally even though I was born in 1962. I never could/did identify with being a baby boom generation.

[bravenak]

145. My mom was born in 61 and she feels the same way.

She say's she's a genxer with a millennial twang, since she had her kids so young. She feels like she grew up with us. She hates the idea of being called a boomer.

[Ampersand Unicode]

176. My mom was born the day JFK died

...and it's like Freaky Friday with the two of us. She's relatively youthful, I'm more "get off my lawn you damn kids." She listens to top 40, I can't stand it; I switch the station to "her generation's music" (the oldies channel) and she says to shut it off because she hates "drug music." She watches current shows while I avoid TV altogether. She's seen some current flicks while I tend to stick to the classics and '80s comedies. The only way we're really in synch with our generations is that she doesn't know how to use a computer and I do. Yet we both share an ineptitude with cellphones and a general dislike of 21st-century technology -- she's afraid to learn, while I wish I could live off the grid and never plug anything in again!

[bravenak]

180. You guys sound fun.

My mom also thinks she's younger than me and i'm old fashioned. I'm just a live and let live sort. I blame Beiber on Usher. Seems like thats his fault.

[Hatchling]

149. I'm an older boomer (62).

I scored a 67. Is that good or bad?

I liked my answers.

I dislike the divide and conquer meme between the generations. I think TPTB use them to prevent solidarity between those who truly belong together despite ther ages. The real divide is between the 1% and the 99%, imo.

[B Calm]

153. LOL, I'm 63

and scored 67 too.

[Zorra]

164. "The real divide is between the 1% and the 99%". [phone] nt

[tabbycat31]

169. scored 89

I'm an X-er according to that but I'm that generation in name only.

[merrily]

155. Why Generation Wars are Misguided---and Annoying. 10% v. 90%. Anything else is divide and

Last edited Mon Jul 15, 2019, 03:15 AM - Edit history (1)

conquer, to the benefit of the 10% and only the 10%.

[raouldukelives]

157. Boomers were just the people alive then. Just as we are alive now.

Do we do anything to make things better? Are we addressing what the problems of tomorrow will be? Or are we sitting back and investing and working for corporations destroying our environment and democracy?

The only people I blame are the ones who put money and personal comfort ahead of the needs of the many. Just as I would blame anyone else from any time in the past who caused great suffering to others in return for more wealth. In fact, I might cut them a little slack. They were not as aware of the effects of climate change and deforestation as we are. We have the facts, we can plainly see what is occurring, we have lost the excuse of ignorance.

[whistler162]

172. Another Forrest Gump post

Stupid is as stupid posts!

[graywarrior]

194. Fuck that!

Without boomers, you'd still be living in the 50s.

[whathehell]

214. Go on with your bad self, Gray

You are right on!.

[graywarrior]

215. Damn right, I am!

[WinkyDink]

197. Yeah, well, TS, Eliot. I'm worried about Medicare and Social Security, not to mention my state

pension here in PA.

Too bad we marched against VietNam as 55,000 of us died there. Where have the Millennials served, AFTER BEING DRAFTED?

Too bad we demonstrated on campuses over the Guard killings at Kent State.

Too bad we were brought up scared about the Cold War, having school drills under our desks.

Too bad we were afflicted with polio.

And too bad we gave the world GREAT ROCK AND ROLL.

So, KMFWA.

[lumberjack_jeff]

198. This argument is

a) pointless
b) irresolvable
c) counterproductive
d) all of the above.

The correct answer is D

[LonePirate]

201. Gen Xers like myself are going to sit this one out and remain invisible it would seem.

[Dont call me Shirley]

204. Libertarian Billionaires and War Hawks ruined this country. And they blame it on anyone else.

Baby Boomers ruined this country, bullshit!