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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhy Republicans are foolishly fighting the Chevrolet Volt (Rick Haglund column)
That makes me think Volt owners are buying them because the cars are highly fuel efficient, technologically advanced or fit the owners driving needs.
But to Republicans on the right, the Volt is an Obamamobile that exists only because of the dictates of government planners.
My gearhead friends are aghast. They cant understand why a political party is demonizing a vehicle that represents some of the best automotive engineering innovation to come out of Detroit in decades.
http://www.mlive.com/business/index.ssf/2012/04/why_republicans_are_foolishly.html
razorman
(1,644 posts)whether or not they succeed in taking the Volt down. It's fate has not yet been determined.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)Now the Volt has diamond lane privleges
Damn
I know it's needed, but I had to buy a Leaf when I could have bought a Volt!
Response to Taverner (Reply #2)
Tesha This message was self-deleted by its author.
Gregorian
(23,867 posts)"Lee Spieckerman, who is a self-confessed oil-loving, drill, baby, drill Texan...suggestions of car stickers that say Im driving an anti-terrorist automobile.
Well, even after cutting and pasting, you get the message. If this guy sees the light, you know many other also do.
jp11
(2,104 posts)Unless there's a big hole in the bumper where someone shot it then I might slap a bumper sticker on it before I fix that.
doc03
(35,328 posts)LuckyTheDog
(6,837 posts)If I had the money to buy one, I would.
doc03
(35,328 posts)the price will come down. But at the present you probably would never get payback for the premium you pay even with the tax credit. Hey if you have an extra $20000 to make a statement fine knock yourself out.
Yep. The people I know who have bought them are types who don't care about payback. They want a cutting-edge car. And they got one. It's nothing at all like the Cruze.
doc03
(35,328 posts)less. Has anyone ever considered what replacemnet batteries will cost when they go bad? I haven't driven a Volt but I have looked them over and they are a Cruze 2LT with a couple options.
batteries have an eight year warranty I'm told.
Bake
(21,977 posts)And gets 23 mpg in the city.
And it's long since paid for.
Bake
2ndAmForComputers
(3,527 posts)Clearly, no one should have bought it even if they had the money.
LiberalFighter
(50,905 posts)2ndAmForComputers
(3,527 posts)LiberalFighter
(50,905 posts)I think it had 30 mb hard drive and 512mb memory.
2ndAmForComputers
(3,527 posts)Wow...
doc03
(35,328 posts)Buick Verano if you want a little fancier car. If you want to spend $40000 plus buy a CTS.
kristopher
(29,798 posts)People buy cars for a lot of different reasons. If you don't see the value in an EV or a hybrid, then don't buy one. Stick to your gasoline addiction if you want to. For some people that alone is a reason to buy an electric drive.
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Some dumbass customer at the thrift store I work at actually said that on Friday. It took a lot of effort to keep my mouth shut.
happyslug
(14,779 posts)The difference is the Eco has a gasoline engine and a regular transmission, the Volt has the same gasoline engine, but the gasoline engine is used to charge the battery when needed.
Now the computer on the Eco, gives two MPG numbers, what I call an Instantaneous mpg, what I am getting at that moment in time, and a Average MPG, which is the average mpg over the previous 50 miles.
According to the computer on the Cruze Eco, I am getting 50 mpg. Sometimes it reaches 99 mpg, but the "Average" mpg is at 50 mpg. I do NOT accept either number as accurate, but as a guide as to how my driving affects the real fuel economy, best measured between full tanks (The EPA uses the most accurate method known, A set amount of fuel is used via its own connection to the engine, that set amount is measured before and after the EPA test).
Now, to get that I end up doing between 40 and 50 mph, if I go faster (or spend to much time in city traffic) the mpg gallon drops. Going up some ramps see the car go to Instantaneous mpg go down to 5-6 mpg (some times 1-2 mpg), on hills the Instantaneous mpg can go to 12-15 mpg, but then to 99 mpg when I reach the top of the hill.
What the Eco has in common with the Volt are as follows:
1. Same body, unlike Ford and Honda that tried to developed a Hybrid/electric version using an existing body, GM decided to develop a body that could be used for an Electric Car AND a conventional car. At the present time, the cost to produce an electric car restricts how many can be made, in addition to the shortage of batteries (The Volt uses Lithium batteries), thus to get any economy of scale you have to spread the cost of the body over a lot of cars. GM does NOT expect to produce enough Volts to justify its own body, thus the decision to combine the Curze and the Volt into one body.
Side note: Toyota for its Prius developed a new body just for the Prius, but there is strong evidence of Japanese Government Subsidy to produce that body (i.e. the Japanese Government provided the cash to develop the body style, thus less need to spread the cost of the body over other automobiles). That option was NOT available to Honda, Ford or GM, thus they decision to produce the Hybrid/Electric cars they have.
2. Same Gasoline engine, a 1.4 liter engine. My Eco has a turbo charger for extra power, the Volt does not for the Volt's gasoline engine is a generator NOT the main propulsion unit. The Volt is propelled by electric motors attached to its wheels. The Batteries or gasoline generator provides the electric power needed. For that purpose a turbo charger is NOT needed, thus not used in the Volt.
3. Same interior including radio, heater, Air Conditioning etc,
4. Same wheels and tires. Now the Regular Cruze, the LT uses conventional tires, the Eco and the Volt uses low roll resistance tires. Surprising to me, only 35 psi (On my Bicycle, similar low roll resistance tires tend to be 100 plus psi, the higher the tire pressure the lower the roll resistance, the lower the tire pressure the more traction). Low resistance tires, provide higher mpg mileage. At 35 psi, most drivers can accept them as almost normal. Bicycles and commercial trucks often run much higher psi number just to get lower roll resistance and thus better fuel economy (for commercial trucks) or easier peddling (for bicyclists). I have seen some truck tires over 100 psi, and bicycle tires over 200 psi. The 100 psi truck tires are quite common on 18 wheel tractor trailers, they want the best fuel economy and one way to get that is to have the highest psi tires, thus when I use the term Truck I do NOT mean the pickup or SUV down the street, but the tractor trailer passing you on the Interstate.
Differences include the following:
1. Different grill:
2. The Volts Electric drive.
3. Volts EPA rating of 93 mpg, as oppose to the EPA's 42 mpg for a six speed standard transmission Cruze.
I opt for the Eco over the volt for several reasons:
First was I tend to drive 20,000 miles per year, but rarely are these trips less then five miles (For such short trips I take my bicycle, even in winter). Thus the fact the Volt can only go 50 or so miles BEFORE its gasoline engine has to kick in makes what I have to drive more compatible with the Cruze then the Volt.
Second, I have no access to an outside electric outlet in my home, and I do NOT want to run an extension code from my basement to the car, forcing me to keep open the door to my basement. I could have my landlord install such an outlet, but given that the electrical lines in my basement are still "Knob and Tube" (i.e. installed sometime between 1890 and 1930) I hesitate to attach any new electrical outlets to the electrical system. Knob and tube is perfectly safe, if you restrict it to the level of electrical usage it was designed to take, but that did NOT include charging an Electric Car. Whatever I would save in gasoline I would spend either do to electrical fire OR the cost of upgrading the electrical system.
Third, even if I had access to an outside electrical box, the extra cost of the Volt over the Eco would exceed any saving in gasoline usage unless gasoline reaches over $12 a gallon. While I think Gasoline prices will go up, some studies have indicated that when the price of Gasoline approaches what you earn per hour working, you tend to stop buying gasoline. You saw this in Indonesia (And other Third world Countries) in the years between 2002 and 2006, and in the US between 2006 and today (mass transit usage in the US has been going up since 2001, roughly when the price of gasoline started to climb). Minimum wage is $7.15 an hour (it was only $5.25 in 2008, the last time we had a price surge in gasoline), thus we will see a lot of people STOP buying gasoline while before gasoline gets to $6 a gallon, and that drop in demand will keep the price of gasoline down below $10 for at least the next 5-10 years (after that all bets are off, for more details go to the Peak Oil Forum).
Side note: the EPA mileage numbers are the most accurate you can come up with, but should be used for Comparison purposes only. The reason people get worse fuel economy than the EPA numbers is most people do NOT travel on the same type of "Road".
On the EPA test it is FLAT, in that the car never actually moves, mileage is measured on a test machine that measures how far the car goes, the driver of the car has a set procedure he or she MUST follow, no variations, i.e no curves, no avoiding traffic, no speeding to pass another car, etc, the test is very rigid and no one ever drives that way except in the EPA tests).
The sole purpose of the test is so people can compare cars with some reasonable idea that the MPG of each is accurate as to each other, i.e. a car tested at 20 mpg, will get better mileage then a car tested at 10 mpg, not that each car will get what the EPA said it will. Thus the test are accurate BUT there are problems with the test when it comes to cars NOT designed to operate at the speed of the test
Thus, I opt for the Cruze, for its 50 mpg at 40 mph will be more cost effective for me then the Volts 93 mpg (and that is ignoring that Hybrids are notorious for NOT living up to their EPA numbers, even worse then gasoline powered cars). The Volt will get much higher mpg then my Eco will, but I do not think the double the EPA is claiming. I also understand the EPA's 42 mpg for the Eco, will be hard to achieve, but the difference between EPA estimates and real life are well known, thus a good guideline. The Volt's EPA estimate, will be like the Prius and all hybrids, will be even worse when compared to real life mpg.
Thus hard to justify a Volt, but my attack in on the concept, that two engines can do a better job then just one engine, is an actual good attack on the concept, unlike the claim that the concept is Obama's invention. GM has long understood that Toyota's Prius was worth every penny Toyota spent on it from a Marketing point of view. i.e. it gets people into the show room, where they can reject the Prius (and now the Volt) on its price, but see the other cars Toyota (and now GM) has to sell. This is what GM is trying to do with the Volt and it has a ready alternative in the Cruze. Given the high price of Gasoline the Cruse is a better purchase as long as Gasoline stays below $12 a gallon.
(Just kidding.)
Yeah, I'd love to own an electric myself, but the economics has to make more sense.
Right now I own a used-car that gets over 30-mpg, totally bought and paid for. And for as little as I drive (less than 10K/year) gas would really have to crest the $10/gallon mark for an electric car to even start making sense.
But I do hope rich people keep buying them, so that they can be mass produced and drive the price down for us simpler folk.