What's happening at Fukushima?

[RobertEarl]

Not much news to report.

Pretty much what was happening months ago is what is happening today. Millions of gallons of radioactive water is flowing into the ocean and they are helpless to stop it, since it is groundwater flowing past the melted cores.

There was what some might call news from recent reports being released by the Japanese detailing the days of the explosions and the plant director's interviews. The plant's director died of cancer a few years ago and the press is just now reporting his words.

The NRC of the US government has been releasing its notes too, and the story those reports tell is the same as what those independents who sounded the alarm 3 years ago reported, when they were called crazy.

Occasional bursts of radioactive gasses and steam are seen being released from the 3 damaged reactors, and new robots being sent into those destroyed buildings are still being rendered useless by the strong radiation.

Other reports about the amounts of radiation released over the last 3 and 1/2 years come up as supporting some of the worst case scenarios claimed at the time of the event.

Japan has yet to restart any of the 50 or so other reactors in Japan, so that is a bit of good news.

If you want to read more about Fukushima go to ENEnews.com

[antiquie]

1. ~

Twelve incredible images of most powerful storm of the year, Super Typhoon Vongfong

The Joint Typhoon Warning Center forecasts Vongfong to continue north toward Japan over the next two to three days. The dangerous typhoon is expected to weaken as it tracks north, though it will still be packing winds around 115 mph — the equivalent of a category 3 hurricane — as it impacts Japan’s Okinawa Prefecture, home of Kadena Air Base.

From there, Vongfong is forecast to move into southern Japan from Sunday into Monday with 90 mph, category 1 winds. While Vongfong is expected to make a quick departure from Japan as it transitions to a non-tropical system, it will still bring heavy rain to Japan. Eight to 12 inches of rain is possible from the typhoon in the far southeast prefectures, with widespread totals of three to five inches across the southern half of the country.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capital-weather-gang/wp/2014/10/09/twelve-incredible-images-of-most-powerful-storm-of-the-year-super-typhoon-vongfong/

[Art_from_Ark]

2. Even if that typhoon reaches Fukushima,

Last edited Thu Oct 9, 2014, 11:06 PM - Edit history (1)

it will probably have lost most of its strength, as do nearly all October typhoons when they reach that part of Japan.

[truedelphi]

120. I admire optimism, but unfortunately,the storm was

Rather horrid, and it's 180 mph winds had a terrible effect with regards to water levels increased radiation:



http://enenews.com/forum-best-practices-combating-effects-radiation/comment-page-13#comment-478924
[h2][font color=red]
(Do not visit the above site if you are not willing to risk some sort of exposure to a computer virus.)

[/h2][/font color=red]

[Art_from_Ark]

121. The storm had essentially petered out by the time it reached Fukushima

It just passed through this area earlier today on its way to Fukushima 100 miles farther north. Winds didn't even exceed 10mph during the height of the storm at Soma Town, just north of Dai-ichi. As I noted in another thread, by the time they reach Fukushima, October typhoons are just rain systems, not hurricanes.

[truedelphi]

124. Wind patterns hitting an ara can be entirely different

100 miles distance separating locations.

I do appreciate your report, Art, but I still have a lot of concerns.

For instance,
I live about 130 miles outside of San Jose, Calif. They could have heavy wind there that I don't notice in my surroundings and vice versa. So if you live 100 miles away, it could be that the nuke reactor in Fukushima has a different weather pattern hitting them.

Besides that, the big issue is not just wind but water surges. It seems according to the "ene energy" website that due to rainy conditions, way too much water has surged through the nuclear power reactor site and swept the water from where it was further out. Whether it stays in a harbor or blows into the ocean is not something I care to speculate on.

[Art_from_Ark]

133. Soma Town is just north of the reactors

It's on the coast, and part of the town is within the 12-mile exclusion zone. According to Yahoo Japan Weather, winds were not particularly fierce during the height of the typhoon as it passed through the town, although there were downpours. While you note that 100 miles makes a difference, I will note that 1500 miles also makes a difference. The storm was very nasty as it approached Okinawa and Kyushu, but gradually lost steam as it moved across Honshu because the land, particularly the very high mountains, as well as the increasingly cool ocean water, sapped much of its power. That's the way it is with October typhoons in eastern Japan.

[Octafish]

3. Fukushima is a global disaster, affecting everyone on the planet.

What one industry exec saw:

Fukushima 'a very sobering place'

Cook chief paints bleak picture of site in Japan; says U.S. safeguards are better

By SCOTT AIKEN
Herald-Palladium, Aug. 20, 2014

EXCERPT...

Weber, who is also a senior vice president at American Electric Power Co., which owns the Cook plant, said he visited the six-unit Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power plants once before the disaster and two times afterward.

SNIP...

In a presentation at the county's Emergency Operations Center, Weber touched on several topics concerning the Cook plant, nuclear power and electric power generation in general.

He attributed the Fukushima failure to not heeding reports that warned of the possibility of such a disaster, the lack of emphasis on safety, and aspects of the Japanese culture.

For example, at one point during the disaster, it was critically important to vent a containment structure to lower pressure but the step could not be taken without the prime minister's approval, Weber said.

"We don't do that," he said, noting that a qualified worker at Cook would not need permission to start a pump.

A 2006 study said Fukushima could by subjected to an earthquake and tsunami on a scale that could damage reactor cores. But the plant made no changes, Weber said.

CONTINUED...

http://www.heraldpalladium.com/news/local/fukushima-a-very-sobering-place/article_652c4b07-f44e-50fb-8a82-409553ba847f.html

Thank you for working to keep us current, RobertEarl. For some reason, the television doesn't bring up Fukushima much.

[RobertEarl]

8. It is sad

The attitude the Japanese nuclear power mongers showed for the immense power of their own plants and the disrespect of that power leading to it being unleashed on the world is a crime of the highest magnitude.

The public in the US was wise to stand up to the nuke powers here, making our regulators force our power plants to be more careful.

My fear is that we in the US have not done enough. Millions of tons of nuclear waste sits around our nuke plants like ticking time bombs. With no solution in sight as we make even more each and every day.

We have 100 nuke plants cranking away, just ready to blow like Fukushima did, given the right Earthly movements. We are not safe.

[Octafish]

10. Systemic Moral Failure due to Greed

Buy Partisan Greed, the nuclear business is.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/forensics/karen-silkwood/kerr-mcgee.html

[RobertEarl]

17. Greed is certainly a factor

And then there is the weapons potential. The ultimate bomb.

I see Obama has gone over to supporting the US producing even more nuclear weapons in the US. And I sit and wonder what makes us do that?

All I can come up with is that there are some evil hands on the controls.

[lunasun]

89. I think parts of the nuke industry were big Obama campaign contributors iirc

[L0oniX]

52. ...more here...

http://www.nature.com/news/ocean-still-suffering-from-fukushima-fallout-1.11823

http://www.biogeosciences.net/10/6045/2013/bg-10-6045-2013.pdf

http://newswatch.nationalgeographic.com/2013/09/11/fukushima-fallout-not-affecting-u-s-caught-fish/

UPDATE #2: ANOTHER GREAT RESOURCE FOR LEARNING ABOUT THE SCIENCE OF FUKUSHIMA RADIATION

For more in depth articles about radiation from Fukushima in the ocean you should definitely check out some of Marine Chemist’s Posts at Daily Kos. Written by Jay T. Cullen, a Marine Chemist at the University of Victoria, the posts walk you through the most current research on Fukushima Radiation from a variety of sources. I especially recommend his most recent post on Update on Fukushima Radionuclides in the North Pacific and Off the West Coast of North America, were he discusses the recent detection of Fukushima radiation off the coast of Canada. The most recent observations from June 2013 shows the spread of Cesium-137 was on par with the predictions by Rossi et al., but the concentrations are safe and lower than predicted.

http://deepseanews.com/2013/11/true-facts-about-ocean-radiation-and-the-fukushima-disaster/

SOURCES:

Behrens, Erik, et al. “Model simulations on the long-term dispersal of 137Cs released into the Pacific Ocean off Fukushima.” Environmental Research Letters 7.3 (2012): 034004.

Buesseler, Ken O., et al. “Fukushima-derived radionuclides in the ocean and biota off Japan.” Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 109.16 (2012): 5984-5988.

Fisher, Nicholas S., et al. “Evaluation of radiation doses and associated risk from the Fukushima nuclear accident to marine biota and human consumers of seafood.” Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (2013).

Nakano, Masanao, and Pavel P. Povinec. “Long-term simulations of the 137 Cs dispersion from the Fukushima accident in the world ocean.” Journal of environmental radioactivity 111 (2012): 109-115.

Rossi, Vincent, et al. “Multi-decadal projections of surface and interior pathways of the Fukushima Cesium-137 radioactive plume.” Deep Sea Research Part I: Oceanographic Research Papers (2013).

Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution FAQ: Radiation from Fukushima

Explained: rad, rem, sieverts, becquerelsl. A guide to terminology about radiation exposure

[Octafish]

55. Thank you, L0oniX!

Great information there. I used to add several Japanese newspapers that were trying. Since then, what they print is officially censored, turning TEPCOs dreams of controlling the story into reality:

''We never meant to conceal the information, but it never occurred to us to make it public.''

An example of just how lowly the world's corporate elite consider the 99-percent...



NUCLEAR CRISIS: HOW IT HAPPENED

Government radiation data disclosure--too little, too late

The Yomiuri Shimbun
June 11, 2011

EXCERPT...

At 8:39 a.m. on March 12, about 18 hours after the earthquake, radioactive tellurium-132 was detected in Namiemachi, Fukushima Prefecture, six kilometers from Tokyo Electric Power Co.'s damaged plant, according to the report from the agency.

The detection of Te-132 meant the temperature of nuclear fuel at the plant had shot up to more than 1,000 C. It also meant nuclear fuel pellets in the reactor cores had been damaged and nuclear material had leaked into the environment.

Seven hours later, a massive hydrogen explosion rocked the plant's No. 1 reactor.

Attempting to explain the delay in making the information public, agency spokesman Hidehiko Nishiyama said later, "We never meant to conceal the information, but it never occurred to us to make it public."

A side note on National Geographic channel:

News Corp is the majority owner of the National Geographic Channel, but our Society still maintains complete editorial control… uh, right, Maryanne?

http://societymatters.org/2011/04/27/news-corp-is-the-majority-owner-of-the-national-geographic-channel-but-our-society-still-maintains-complete-editorial-control-uh-right-maryanne/

[JEB]

130. K&R

Thanks for posting,

[Scuba]

4. So the situation is unchanged. It's still a clusterfuck.

[Octafish]

15. Nuclear workers kept in dark on Fukushima hazard pay

Reuters/CNBC
Tuesday, 7 Oct 2014 | 8:44 PM ET

Almost a year after Japan pledged to double hazard pay at the stricken Fukushima nuclear plant, workers are still in the dark about how much extra they are getting paid, if anything, for cleaning up the worst nuclear disaster since Chernobyl.

Under pressure to improve working conditions at Fukushima after a series of radioactive water leaks last year, Tokyo Electric Power Co President Naomi Hirose promised in November to double the hazard pay the utility allocates to its subcontractors for plant workers. That would have increased the amount each worker at the nuclear facility is supposed to earn to about $180 a day in hazard pay.

Only one of the more than three dozen workers interviewed by Reuters from July through September said he received the full hazard pay increase promised by Tepco. Some workers said they got nothing. In cases where payslips detailed a hazard allowance, the amounts ranged from $36 to about $90 a day – at best half of what Hirose promised.

In some instances, workers said they were told they would be paid a hazard bonus based on how much radiation they absorb – an incentive tabsorb – an incentive to take additional risks at a dangerous work site.

CONTINUED...

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102068504#.

That's how TEPCO, Japan and Nuke Inc are treating their workers engaged in the hazardous clean-up that we know about. I imagine the real story is much worse. No one knows what's really going on at Fukushima, as the news now is censored in Japan.

[Scuba]

19. "... worst nuclear disaster since Chernobyl." I'd call it worse than Chernobyl, but I'm no expert.

[Art_from_Ark]

27. In terms of land rendered uninhabitable, Chernobyl was worse

In terms of clean-up, Fukushima is probably much worse.

[RobertEarl]

40. Pacific ocean

A lot of the radiation ended up in the ocean off Fukushima.

There is science that says they have found signs of it off the coast of North America.

[Scuba]

42. That was the part that led to my conclusion.

[RobertEarl]

47. Yeah, talk about whitewashing it away

It is estimated that 80% of the total emissions from Fukushima went to the east, over the ocean.

US Sailors onboard the Reagan aircraft carrier are suing for damages because many of them have apparent radiation symptoms. These sailors claim they were doused by clouds from the explosions at Fukushima.

Comparing Chernobyl to Fukushima is not the right way to go about this matter. They have just one thing comparable in that each had one nuke plant explode.

Fukushima has had three nuke plants exploding and 4 fuel pools in various states of damage.

Chernobyl was kept dry and Fukushima's cleanup plan is using water to control the great heat from what is left. And that water flows into the ocean 24/7.

Of course someone will come along and claim that radiation from Fukushima never hurt anyone. Which is a gawd damn lie. The science tells us that radiation can and does kill.

[truedelphi]

119. The situation w both what is going on in the P ocean, and

The fact that on land, tens of millions of people in Alaska, Pacific Northwest and Calif., as well as due to vaguaries of the wind currents, the state of TX, during the months right after the event means that so many of us were exposed to lots of radiation.

Again, like we saw in Nevada and Utah during the days of atomic bomb testing, our government could have put advisories out so citizens would not drink dairy products, etc, but instead, our government's main response was to raise the safety level numbers of radiation!

And here is one citation for considering Fukushima to be more serious than Chernobyl:


Christopher Busby

http://rt.com/op-edge/chernobyl-fukushima-crisis-catastrophe-715/

###########################

[FBaggins]

43. Chernobyl was worse in almost all ways.

Yes, the clean-up at Fukushima is worse... but that's because they intend to actually clean some things up (this being Japan we're talking about and not the Soviet Union).

But the total release from Chernobyl was somewhere in the neighborhood of 10-100 times as large as Fukushima. To make matters worse, a much larger proportion of that release was in longer-lived isotopes (since physical pieces of fuel were expelled from the core in the explosion and fire). Even cesium eventually fades away over decades... but elements like strontium and plutonium hang around for far longer (and Chernobyl released thousands to millions of times as much)

The impact of Fukushima to the ocean was of course much higher... partially because the bulk of the total release ended up in the Pacific - but mostly because Chernobyl wasn't on the shore.

The impact on human health is not even close. The expectations of a free society like Japan cause the government to receive (warranted) criticism for how they managed the crisis, but it was nothing like Chernobyl. By comparison, people were evacuated earlier and checked for contamination. Stable iodine was distributed to most of the at-risk population. Medical equipment is far better... and studies began almost immediately (along with the associated follow-up checks). The end result being that Chernobly killed hundreds (likely thousands, though most cannot be clearly identified as such), while Fukushima still hasn't killed anyone (from radiation), and it's still quite likely that we won't be able to attribute any to Fukushima radiation (though again, it's likely that statistically there will be a handful).

[truedelphi]

49. The "moxy fuel" that was used by Fukushima's GE, Tepco plant

makes the disaster some fifty times worse than Chernobyl.

Here is a report with a video at the very top of the page worth listening to and reading through:

http://agreenroad.blogspot.com/2014/01/fukushima-released-mas
sive-amounts-of.html

[SidDithers]

50. ...

Sid

[FBaggins]

60. Not sure where you got that notion... but it's incorrect.

All spent nuclear fuel from normal power reactors has plutonium in it (as well as the fuel in the operating cores of the reactors). Adding mox to the equation makes very little difference and very likely had no impact at all on the incident. There was, for instance, no spent mox in any of the fuel pools.

Chernobyl put out many MANY times more plutonium than Fukushima... and very likely had more plutonium in it when it blew up than any Fukushima reactor - because the Russian RBMK reactors were designed to produce plutonium for weapons.

Here is a report

The blog post you linked to is in no sense a "report". it's a pretty standard example of the lunatic fringe "woo" that draws so many astray. He's entirely divorced from reality. Gotta laugh at the map at 8:25 that he's still using.

[RobertEarl]

62. Wrong again....

Of course you are also the person who claimed that the melted cores weren't melted and the melted cores were not even hot.

And where do you get this:
"... no spent mox in any of the fuel pools."
Like you are the expert on what was in the spent fuel pools?

You can't even accept that the cores melted and now you are telling us you know what was in the fuel pools at Fukushima? If it was funny, I would laugh. But you ceased being funny a long time ago.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024936258#post106

[FBaggins]

66. Seriously?

Of course you are also the person who claimed that the melted cores weren't melted

I did? Can you find such a post?

and the melted cores were not even hot.

Years later when they weren't hot... but you still thought they were molten and burning further into the ground.

And where do you get this:
"... no spent mox in any of the fuel pools."
Like you are the expert on what was in the spent fuel pools?

It doesn't take an expert... just the ability to read.

Only one unit at Fukushima had begun using mox...and they had just done so a few months before at their most recent refueling. Therefore one third of the core was mox... and none of the spent fuel (since it would have been 3-4 years before the first mox would be "spent". None of the other units had begun using mox, and therefore they wouldn't have "spent" anything either.

[truedelphi]

111. And unfortunately, "industry" would put this person on

Their payroll in a minute, even if their degree in science was from a creationist-enabling Christian "university."

[RobertEarl]

113. From what i can tell he may be an industry rep

Either that or a cunning anti-nuke who is undercover. I say that because he really makes the industry look bad. So he could be on the payroll, but unlike the rest, has a conscious, and is diabolically working to make some amends.

Certainly, an enigma.

[zappaman]

114. You, on the other hand, make anti-nuke advocates look bad.

Evens it out, I suppose.

[RobertEarl]

115. I'd like to see FB, and the rest, post OP's

They follow us around and throw their poison darts at those who try to make sense of Fukushima, but don't have what it takes to start any threads about Fukushima.

I guess they may be afraid of the consequences?

[yuiyoshida]

5. Here are constant updates by Mainichi shinbum

http://mainichi.jp/search/index.html?q=fukushima

[truedelphi]

54. Thank you for offering up that website.

Of course, how scientific can it be, coming from someone who claims to bleed black and orange? (Me be bleeding that way myself these days, GO Giants!)

[yuiyoshida]

57. giants won last night...

I am satisfied with that. I look forward to games two, three and maybe four!

[truedelphi]

112. And last night- they lost it by

Just a lil bit.

It sure was fun watching two evenly matched teams play their hearts out. Here's hoping that Tuesday's game ends differently:

[yuiyoshida]

123. Not worried about it...

THey came close to winning, and with being in front of the San Francisco crowd they will make it harder on the Cardinals. All they need is three more, and move on to the World series... they can win three games at home!

[Art_from_Ark]

6. There's an election for Fukushima governor coming up on October 26

There are 6 candidates in the running, none of whom are affiliated with a political party. One is a former lieutenant governor, two are former mayors (one of whom is also a doctor), one is a farmer, one is a convenience store owner, and the 6th one is the head of a construction company. Most of them are quite upset at what has been going on at Dai-ichi. One of the former mayors says on his web site (loosely translated),

"We don't want to be guinea pigs for radioactive contamination!" (放射能被害のモルモットからの解放 )
http://www.idogawa-katsutaka.net/seisaku.html

The farmer/rancher lost his daughter two months after the disaster.
http://ikarashiyoshitaka.club/policy.htm

The doctor/former mayor wants to create a socio-economic system that is not dependent on nuclear power
http://kumasakayoshihiro.jp/?page_id=2

The convenience store owner has all sorts of questions about the reactors and wants to have a steady stream of accurate data
http://akikoiseki7-rinen.jimdo.com/

The former lieutenant governor wants to pour his efforts into decommissioning all nuclear reactors in Fukushima and bringing the accident to a conclusion
http://uchibori2014.com/policy

The construction company guy wants to investigate the potential of new and natural energy sources that are commensurate with Fukushima Prefecture.
http://kaneko-yoshinao.com/manifesto/

[RobertEarl]

9. Hey Art

Hope all is well with you and yours in Japan.

Thanks for the report from politicians on the ground at Fukushima. I wish them great success as they battle for their future. There being much power aligned against them, they do need all the support people like me thousands of miles away can give them.

Meanwhile I look over my shoulder at my neighboring nuke plants and shudder at the thought I too might have to face what they endure.

[littlemissmartypants]

35. Thanks. eom

[MineralMan]

7. Nothing new. They're still trying to

minimize the continuing damage and find some way to recover. If you gave any workable ideas, you should share them. What happened happened. We can't go back in time.

[RobertEarl]

12. Workable idea

Keep all the nuke plants closed, and close the others around the world, asap.

An ounce of prevention being worth a pound of cure, it behooves us all to not allow the "nukes are safe" meme to ever again be uttered in the US.

The workable ideas from those that who saw the future truth about Fukushima were called crazy by the nuclear supporters. But had their workable ideas been instituted many years ago, Fukushima might never have been a word most of us ever heard.

The problem is the radiation at Fukushima can not be dealt with given our knowledge or capabilities. So all we can do now is to become aware of the problems it is presenting the planet and all it's life forms and work to prevent another plant from the same climax.

For example, WIPP, the nuclear Waste Isolation plant in New Mexico, slated to be a place for safe waste disposal for a thousand years, is now closed down due to radiation escaping its multi-billion dollar containment.

We simply do not know what we are doing with the nuclear problem we have created. Time we stopped making more. Eh?

[littlemissmartypants]

36. Indeed. eom

[littlemissmartypants]

36. Indeed. eom

[littlemissmartypants]

36. Indeed. eom

[RobertEarl]

39. How did you do that?

3 posts with the same number 36.

That's some kind of smartypants you are wearing?

&&&&&&&&&

I don't think the US can afford to have any nuke plant go Fukushima on us. The only real way to stop that from happening is to end the fissions and put the waste in ground level pools with cooling pumps run by solar power.

We have been warned. Will we heed that warning?

[JEB]

132. Stop making the awful toxic shit we have no workable plan for disposal.

[ozone_man]

14. Switch to renewables

Solar, wind, biomass, tidal, geothermal, others, but nuclear is fraught with problems, disposal, mining, terrorism, melt down catastrophe, and the tie in with the military establishment.

Concerning the continuing mess at Fukushima, why try to shut down the conversation? Open it up to broad daylight.

[grahamhgreen]

45. Indeed

[flamingdem]

11. Thanks for the reminder

Wow, this one really slips out of the headlines. A non-sexy story if there ever was one.

[malaise]

13. Thanks for the update - Rec n/t

[RobertEarl]

48. You're welcome, malaise

I don't post much about Fuku anymore since it is such a bummer and not much we can do but watch.

[Warren DeMontague]

16. If Sun Tzu were alive, he'd figure out a way to use that radioactive water to kill the ebola virus

Sadly Sun Tzu is not alive.

[SidDithers]

18. Melting starfish...nt

Sid

[Warren DeMontague]

20. That was my favorite song in "Hair"

[JEB]

21. K&R for exposure.

[RobertEarl]

23. Thanks, JEB

We should not forget about this.

I went to ENEnews.com and they are having a DOS attack, or there are just way too many people trying to access the site and the servers are having a hard time? Some of the posts there get do over 5,000 views a day.

And somebody on DI has posted on that site pretty much the same as my post here. I think it's someone from my fan club? Someone with a Bee renting space in their mind?

[JEB]

31. Excuse my ignorance, but what is DI?

It does seem that some folks definitely have a bee buzzing whenever nuclear power and its shortcomings are discussed.

[RobertEarl]

32. DI is Discussionist.com

It is a cool forum site set up by the founders of DU.

I've been having fun over there. You should check it out.

[zappaman]

22. If you want to read more bullshit about Fukushima go to ENEnews.com

Fixed it for ya.

[Art_from_Ark]

29. The upcoming gubernatorial election in Fukushima

is focusing heavily on the lack of information and transparency about this problem, more than 3 1/2 years after the disaster.

[JEB]

131. Exactly.

[hunter]

24. They are cleaning up a very expensive mess made by a tsunami.

Most people died from the effects of the tsunami itself, crushed and drowned in the water and debris.

[RobertEarl]

33. Actually

The latest reports detailing the situation describe the fact that the earthquake did the major damage to the reactors. If you read just the OP's on ENEnews it all becomes quite clear.

The forum there can become quite raucous, nothing that makes any nuke supporter comfortable, nor are the members there in any mood to be nice to nuke supporters. So, caution is advised.

There are about 150,000 refugees from the Fukushima incident who can't move back into their homes because the radiation levels are too high, still, after 3 1/2 years.

[FBaggins]

64. You didn't read what you replied to.

He said that most people died from the Tsunami... which is a simple statement of fact. Tens of thousands of deaths from the tsunami, many many times more than from the earthquake itself... and, of course, none at all so far from radiation from the reactors.

The latest reports detailing the situation describe the fact that the earthquake did the major damage to the reactors.

More of your imaginary reality, eh?

No such report exists. There has been some debate over whether there was some damage to one of the reactors from the earthquake (mere speculation really), but's it's quite clear (and the most recent reports do say this) that it was the SBO from the tsunami that knocked out cooling and sounded the death knell for the reactors.

This is why none of the reactors in Japan that were hit only by the earthquake (including some that were larger ground motion and beyond their design basis) suffered any serious damage... but all three of the ones that lost power from the tsunami melted down.

[RobertEarl]

68. It is well known

The reactor containments cracked and cooling water leaked out.

Even if they had pumps working, which they did to some degree, it wasn't staying where it was needed because of the earthquake caused cracks. You should read up.

[FBaggins]

70. Nope.

The reactor containments cracked and cooling water leaked out.

Not as part of the earthquake. There was one report of someone who claimed that one of the pipes in the turbine hall had cracked during the earthquake... but that would be sealed off from the cooling look once the reactor was shut down... so it wouldn't contribute to the meltdowns.

There was a report of water on the floor of one reactor building, but (as was found at other reactors that day), it was water sloshing out of the pools from the earthquake.

You should read up.

On the contrary... you should. The evidence has been pretty clear that the units were all stable until the tsunami struck.

Again... if the earthquake was capable of doing that... why didn't ANY of the other reactors that were struck by the earthquake (but not the tsunami) melt down?

[RobertEarl]

129. Smoke was seen

Smoke was coming out of reactor number 1 before the Tsunami hit

You sure have a weird way of looking at facts. I get you never wanted to accept any of the facts from day one, but one would think that by now you would have learned something without me having to tell you over and over again and again.

[FBaggins]

135. Smoke was seen?

That's your evidence that the earthquake is what killed the reactors? Someone claims to have seen smoke?

Let's try this again... I'm sure you just missed it

If the earthquake was capable of doing that... why didn't ANY of the other reactors that were struck by the earthquake (but not the tsunami) melt down? - And why haven't any other reactors worldwide (many of which have been struck by larger earthquakes and/or have exceeded their design basis earthquake) had similar problems?

Don't worry... I won't hold my breath waiting.

[AnalystInParadise]

25. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[daleanime]

26. Kick....

[Art_from_Ark]

28. Fukushima Electric Power wants to restart some nuclear reactors

while at the same time they don't want electricity from renewable energy sources to enter their grid, despite the government's encouragement to include renewables.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/112775567

[JEB]

30. I am always surprised

when posters on DU get all snarky and condescending when anything about the ongoing disaster at Fukushima is brought up. Defaming legitimate news sources and belittling honest concern. What's up with that shit?

[RobertEarl]

34. We have our suspicions

I do find the posters to have a history that is not conducive to open discussions about matters that are created by the rich and powerful.

[FBaggins]

44. Defaming legitimate news sources? I thought we were talking about ENENews?

Last edited Fri Oct 10, 2014, 10:44 AM - Edit history (1)

They are in no sense a "legitimate news souce". That's not "defamation", it's a statement of fact. No legitimate news source operates in secret and twists the facts the way they do.

They are, more properly put, the hangout joint for the lunatic fringe of nuclear paranoia that doesn't want their BS mixed in with the infowars and godlike productions nuttiness on other issues (UFOs, HAARP, chemtrails, etc)

[jeff47]

65. The OP has literally claimed that the radiation traveled backwards through time.

That's why you see snark and condescension.

[RobertEarl]

74. You? Again?

Check this post from DU's own "nuclear expert" about the radiation in the Pacific.

""The concentrations in the pacific were much higher during the years when we used to regularly set off nuclear weapons in the pacific."'

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025644755#post61

[FBaggins]

76. You might try actually reading the reports you cite as evidence.

Take, for instance, the report that you used to proclaim that starfish were dying due to Fukushima. They've been taking readings from marine life off those islands for decades... and the radiation levels have been falling steadily since the they stopped nuclear testing. The uptick from Fukushima was tiny by comparison (and only showed up at all in a couple samples).

[RobertEarl]

83. Yes, of course

Radiation is good for sea stars, and all that.

It is becoming well known that it isn't the radioactive atoms that cause the killing, but that the suppressed immune systems that are fighting the radioactive atoms are left defenseless against other attacks on bodies.

There is even a name for it: RAIDS. It is like AIDS, (with the 'R' in front for Radioactive), which doesn't kill so much as suppress our immune systems allowing other diseases to kill us.

And, we know, that atmospheric depositions which landed on the coast and were washed into the ocean, is the foremost RAID factor. And now the plume from Fukushima is creeping ashore. I fear we've seen just the beginning of our problems.

Checked the sea stars research page and they still don't know why the sea stars are dying. Same as when AIDS first hit humans.

[zappaman]

84. Is Fukushima radiation still causing dolphin deaths in the Atlantic?

Like you have previously claimed?

[RobertEarl]

86. Link or slink

Of course any link you have shows you are making up the accusation, so you will provide no link, will you?

You have been nailed 3 times already making this false accusation. Why do you keep doing this?

[zappaman]

88. Guess I'll link, Bob.

"No other life seems to be affected? That is just an anti-science claim as there are many other reports of sea life along the west coast having serious issues. And dolphins in the Atlantic."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101682144#post2

[RobertEarl]

90. That's 4 times now, za

Your claim is that I declared ""Fukushima radiation still causing dolphin deaths in the Atlantic"

I pointed out that dolphins were sea life that have been reported as dying in the Atlantic. That was in response to the claim from Deep Sea News that no other sea life besides sea stars, seems to be affected.

Dolphins in the Atlantic, along with sea stars in the Atlantic, are sea life, and they are dying, and no one knows why. I do not claim to know why, but am suspicious.

So your accusation is false.

The evidence is that atmospheric deposition from the explosions at Fukushima traveled around the world. And much rained out on the east coast of the US. Florida was especially hit by that deposition. You can read about it on ENEnews.com.

We know that along the east coast of the US flows the Gulf Stream which carries water from Florida up the east coast, where sea stars and dolphins have been found with a mysterious illness.

The scientific method demands that all factors be looked at when mysterious things happen.

[zappaman]

92. Nice try Bob.

I'll let DUers read the link for themselves to see how ludicrous your claims are.

"The Fukushima event was one that a cloud of reactor material crossed the US in the air. It was deposited via fallout and rainfall all over the US. When it rained the nuclear material washed off into the Atlantic."
"That is just an anti-science claim as there are many other reports of sea life along the west coast having serious issues. And dolphins in the Atlantic. "

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101682144#post2

Here's another link that shows what an "expert" you are.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024381218

[RobertEarl]

94. Thanks

I hope people do go read that whole article, and see the deception that DSN has been spreading. And you helped!

[zappaman]

95. You're welcome, Bob

The more people read about how ENENews is bullshit, the better.
As for your assertions...

[FBaggins]

99. Lol! "There is even a name for it"

An invented name for an invented condition.

You won't find that "name for it" anywhere but the fevered postings of the nuts on enenews and godlikeproductions.

It's amazing how many thing you "know" that bear zero relationship to reality.

[jeff47]

101. Yep me. It really sucks when people remember your fearmongering, huh? (nt)

[RobertEarl]

108. Nuclear waste is a killer

The industry spends billions of dollars to keep it contained. Billions.

To insist that man-made nuclear radiation is safe to have spread all over the environment, and that it being everywhere is nothing to be concerned about, is pure anti-science.

[jeff47]

109. Good thing I'm not insisting that it isn't a killer.

Instead, I'm insisting that things which started 6 months before the Fukushima disaster can't be caused by the Fukushima disaster.

You are taking a more relaxed view of the flow of time, since that fits the story you want to tell.

[RobertEarl]

110. What things started before Fukushima?

The recent sea star mass deaths were first reported after 3/11/11.

There were some other die-offs of sea stars before then and as we have seen reported here by our 'expert', the Pacific has been polluted by man-made radiation, on and off, for decades.

If you have a clue about why the sea stars are now in the worst die-off ever, then you should come out with it.

Science says that when something happens, you look around for possible causes. It can correctly be theorized that radiation in their habitat is a cause for their demise. Certainly, the unprecedented pollution from Fukushima could be causing this unprecedented demise of the sea stars.

Our 'expert' had a problem with understanding what the word *unprecedented* means, hopefully you can do better?

[jeff47]

116. Reported, as in you saw the reporting of them.

The actual scientists studying the die off saw them before reporting them. Shockingly enough.

Also, the actual scientists studying the die off keep insisting it isn't due to Fukushima. Their working theory is it's increased chemical pollution, because that's what happened in the 1960s when a similar die-off occurred. But what the fuck do they know about it?

Look, I understand you really, really, really want Fukushima to cause an enormous number of people to die. Heck, you linked to a guy who claimed the entire Northern Hemisphere would be uninhabitable. Unfortunately his deadline was two years ago.

But flinging more bullshit around so that you can "be right" is not a good thing. First, you help turn the party away from science and towards myths that sound good. In other words, exactly what the Republican party did to turn itself into it's current insane condition.

Second, you're desperately searching for proof that billions of people will die so you can be right. That isn't healthy.

[zappaman]

117. Don't forget the dolphins dying in the Atlantic because of Fukushima. n/t

[RobertEarl]

122. Actually

It happened. Fukushima belched its nuclear innards into the ocean. The wind and ocean currents are carrying the nuke-puke to the west coast of the US.

I wished it had not happened, but it did. All we can do now is warn people of what's headed their way.

You should delete your words making accusations toward my intentions and desires over this matter. For those words are just trash. Utter and complete garbage.

As an environmentalist, it is my duty to watch what is happening in the environment and warn people as best I can about what is going on.

You have not presented one iota of science to any of your screed, just emotional garbage. You should be ashamed of yourself.

[jeff47]

125. No, not actually

All we can do now is warn people of what's headed their way.

Again, you are making claims that require time to flow backwards. You are making claims that requires radiation to teleport through the planet to the Atlantic ocean.

That isn't "what's headed their way". That's "Look at me! I was right and because people didn't do what I wanted, people are going do tie".

You should delete your words making accusations toward my intentions and desires over this matter. For those words are just trash. Utter and complete garbage.

And you should stop spewing things you know are false in order scare people into your worldview.

You have not presented one iota of science to any of your screed

You need me to prove time does not go backwards?

Do you also need me to prove the sun does not rise in the West?

[zappaman]

127. Link or slink.

"The actuality of it is you support nuke power and therefore you support the death and destruction it is and will cause."

This poster does that?
I didn't know!
Please post the links.

Thanks in advance, Bob!

[NuclearDem]

91. Because the OP has demonstrated repeatedly he doesn't know what he's talking about.

First, he repeatedly cites ENENews, which is the equivalent of citing NaturalNews.

Second, his claims about Fukushima include:

Fukushima's leaking water heating parts of the Pacific to levels that would require several volcanic events worth of heat to achieve.

Seastars dying off due to Fukushima radiation, despite the die off starting months before the accident.

The presence of plutonium in wildlife near a former nuclear test site in Alaska somehow being linked to Fukushima.

A half nanosievert increase in radiation over Canada as anything other than insignificant an effect on human health.

And a whole host of other things that make his claims about the incident frankly suspect.

[zappaman]

93. Don't forget he thinks Fukushima radiation hit the Atlantic

And is killing dolphins there.

[RobertEarl]

96. Very good, nice kick

Enenews.com is a wonderful source of news articles, well sourced and then discussions get going.

You doubt that nuclear reactors heat water? WOW.

Sea stars are dying and the scientists don't know why. They did have a die-off years back, and we know that, as FB has posted in this thread, the Pacific had been polluted with radioactivity years ago from weapons testing. And who can forget Chernobyl?

Increased levels of plutonium were found by the Defense department in testing done in Alaskan waters. In mussels. Guess what eats mussels? Yep, sea stars. Have you the data on testing of mussels in the PNW?

One day they sampled a bit of radiation in Canada, and then they turned off the monitors. But other monitors have shown repeated, and whole N. hemisphere depositions of radioactive material from Fukushima. It is, basically, everywhere. That's what the science says: everywhere.

[FBaggins]

100. You've left off some of his greatest hits

Did you know that a beta particle from so-called "man-made" radioactive elements is entirely different from a beta particle from "natural" radioactive elements?

Or that robots even sent into the reactor buildings all die from the radiation (or even "melt&quot ?

Or that every time the fog rolls in at Fukushima (which occurs pretty regularly since it's on the coast)... he thinks the cores are spewing?

Or that at least one of the explosions at Fukushima was nuclear?

The only thing I haven't seen so far is the claim that the jews controlling the US government used HAARP to set off the earthquake intentionally to punish the Japanese. But that's ok... because the aliens forced them to do it.

[nationalize the fed]

41. The one good thing about Fukedupshima (if there is such) is that it apparently has convinced

the smart ones to take alternatives seriously

Here's just one example
From nothing to a rather large functioning solar plant in less than 2 years

It takes >2 years just to finish the paperwork for permits on a fission reactor.

Look at what Honda is doing right now (while the US bombs more civilians)

Honda to exhibit Smart Hydrogen Station at Japanese expo

Honda Motor Co has announced that it will exhibit a full-scale mockup of the Smart Hydrogen Station (SHS), and the Portable Inverter Box that enables external feeding of electricity from a fuel cell electric vehicle at the CEATEC JAPAN 2014, along with other products and technologies. CEATEC JAPAN will take place at Makuhari Messe in Chiba, Japan from today, October 7 through to October 11, 2014.

Honda says it has been committed to the development of sustainable energy technologies and electromotive technologies for mobility products. With the hope to enable more people to see and experience such Honda technologies and products, Honda will exhibit them at the comprehensive and cutting-edge IT and electronic exhibition, CEATEC JAPAN for the second consecutive year...

...Under ‘generate’, Honda will exhibit a full-size mockup of the Smart Hydrogen Station (SHS) and provide an easy-to-understand introduction of the system that generates hydrogen. The SHS is equipped with Honda’s original high-pressure water electrolysis system that does not require a compressor. Moreover, the SHS was jointly developed by Honda and Iwatani Corporation as the world’s first hydrogen station where the key components including a high-pressure hydrogen tank and a fueling nozzle are housed in a box-shaped package.

For the theme of ‘use’, Honda will introduce technologies for a fuel cell electric vehicle (FCV) which is powered by an electric motor that uses electricity generated through the chemical reaction of hydrogen generated by the hydrogen station. The exhibit includes formula car-like display that enables visitors to have fun while experiencing the concept of the use of hydrogen energy...MORE

http://www.autocarpro.in/news-international/honda-exhibit-smart-hydrogen-station-japanese-expo-6468

I still remember the day that mainstream coverage of Fukishima just stopped. One day it was in the news and then BAM. Nothing. Nada. Zero.

It's criminal, and one day hopefully enough people will get tired of being talked to and treated like 5 year olds. That seems far off though.

Meanwhile, Obomba talks new nukes, like you said, a wholesale abandonment of yet another campaign "promise". A Con Artist. Disgraceful.

[FBaggins]

46. A "rather large solar plant in less than 2 years" ?

How many of those are needed in order to replace the annual generation from a single reactor?

It takes >2 years just to finish the paperwork for permits on a fission reactor.


So? Power companies plan generation projects decades in advance.

Oh... and how does even two years compare to just turning an already-existing plant back on?

[SidDithers]

56. Bookmarking...nt

Sid

[L0oniX]

51. Here's some info and links to more info...

http://www.nature.com/news/ocean-still-suffering-from-fukushima-fallout-1.11823

http://www.biogeosciences.net/10/6045/2013/bg-10-6045-2013.pdf

http://newswatch.nationalgeographic.com/2013/09/11/fukushima-fallout-not-affecting-u-s-caught-fish/

UPDATE #2: ANOTHER GREAT RESOURCE FOR LEARNING ABOUT THE SCIENCE OF FUKUSHIMA RADIATION

For more in depth articles about radiation from Fukushima in the ocean you should definitely check out some of Marine Chemist’s Posts at Daily Kos. Written by Jay T. Cullen, a Marine Chemist at the University of Victoria, the posts walk you through the most current research on Fukushima Radiation from a variety of sources. I especially recommend his most recent post on Update on Fukushima Radionuclides in the North Pacific and Off the West Coast of North America, were he discusses the recent detection of Fukushima radiation off the coast of Canada. The most recent observations from June 2013 shows the spread of Cesium-137 was on par with the predictions by Rossi et al., but the concentrations are safe and lower than predicted.

SOURCES:

Behrens, Erik, et al. “Model simulations on the long-term dispersal of 137Cs released into the Pacific Ocean off Fukushima.” Environmental Research Letters 7.3 (2012): 034004.

Buesseler, Ken O., et al. “Fukushima-derived radionuclides in the ocean and biota off Japan.” Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 109.16 (2012): 5984-5988.

Fisher, Nicholas S., et al. “Evaluation of radiation doses and associated risk from the Fukushima nuclear accident to marine biota and human consumers of seafood.” Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (2013).

Nakano, Masanao, and Pavel P. Povinec. “Long-term simulations of the 137 Cs dispersion from the Fukushima accident in the world ocean.” Journal of environmental radioactivity 111 (2012): 109-115.

Rossi, Vincent, et al. “Multi-decadal projections of surface and interior pathways of the Fukushima Cesium-137 radioactive plume.” Deep Sea Research Part I: Oceanographic Research Papers (2013).

Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution FAQ: Radiation from Fukushima

Explained: rad, rem, sieverts, becquerelsl. A guide to terminology about radiation exposure

[RobertEarl]

53. "The concentrations are safe"...???

Safe for who? Or what?

There have not been such concentrations in the ocean like we have now. So this idea that it is safe is a shot-in-the-dark, just plain wishful thinking.

The creatures that live in the water 24/7, are being bombarded 24/7 with this never before realized radiation. In short, there is not enough science on which to base a claim that it is 'safe'.

However, we have recently noted sea creature populations in the Pacific are in serious decline. The scientists claim to not know what is causing these declines and mass deaths.

Obviously, the ocean off the coast of Pacific Northwest is not safe these days. Is Fukushima to blame? Would they tell us if it were?

[Sirveri]

58. They already tell us when the ocean isn't safe.

That's why there are mercury advisory warnings on fish caught off the West Coast due to China's coal power generation and resulting air pollution fallout into the oceans.

[RobertEarl]

59. Point is; radiation

Mercury is a known problem. It bio-accumulates ... meaning that larger creatures end up accumulating more and more of it as they feed.

The question is; with the radioactive atoms now in the water... which we know they are, how much will accumulate as it moves up the food chain, and what will it do to the smaller creatures like, say, sea stars?

Will the PTB, like they've done with mercury, tell us?

[Sirveri]

73. They already know what it will do and how it will accumulate.

That's pretty basic radiation health physics. The Cesium has a biological half life of 5 years in population, and they have derived limits from these things. Further, there is no evidence that radiation has led to the starfish kill in the oceans, the much more likely culprit being global warming (once again caused by burning coal), which has increased global ocean acidity causing the starfish skeletal structure to become more frail and brittle. Further, this has happened once before, several decades prior to fukushima. Finally, we do not eat starfish in any significant manner, we do eat fish, and those fish are tested for harmful levels of multiple substances by the USDA and they would issue a health advisory warning to limit consumption if those limits are violated.

The fact that they have issued a consumption warning for fish means that the system works, and that they would likely also issue a warning if radioactive contamination exceeded government setpoints in fish.

[RobertEarl]

78. Sure, sure

Of course they would tell us that the ocean is polluted with man-made radioactivity from nuclear tests and releases from nuclear power plants.

Of course they would, they have nothing to lose by telling us the truth. Like Bush did with WMD and Iraq, and all that.

[FBaggins]

81. Lol!

Yes... they've told us that for decades.

Did you really think that there were people who saw actual nuclear explosions in the ocean and thought that there wasn't any so-called "man-made" radioactivity from them?

[Sirveri]

103. Well considering that they actually release those numbers...

In the 1940's it was still somewhat new, but by the 50's and 60's we had it pretty well figured out. You can actually look up the rate numbers for the EPA, as they do test for it.

For 2011
http://epa.gov/japan2011/rert/radnet-data-map.html
For real time and historical data
http://www.epa.gov/radnet/

[RobertEarl]

106. It is of interest that....

When one looks at a graph of increasing radiation over the years and the graph of the decline in bird populations, there is an interesting correlation. One goes up and the other goes down at the same time.

One last question for you pro-nuke types: What are you going to do with the tons and tons of nuclear waste that will be deadly for 100's of years?

[FBaggins]

61. Wrong as usual

There have not been such concentrations in the ocean like we have now.

That's simply wrong... as has been pointed out to you over and over and over and over again.

The concentrations in the pacific were much higher during the years when we used to regularly set off nuclear weapons in the pacific.

Hundreds of them.

Obviously, the ocean off the coast of Pacific Northwest is not safe these days.

"Obvious" only to those attempting to corner the world market on tin foil.

[RobertEarl]

63. You haven't been following the reports have you?

The oceanographers are the ones claiming it is unprecedented.

"The release of radioactive contaminants from Fukushima remains an unprecedented event for the people of Japan and the Pacific Ocean."

http://www.ourradioactiveocean.org/

[FBaggins]

67. You're the one disagreeing with the oceanographers

They're the ones telling you that there is no danger at all in the Pacific... yet you attribute any and everything to it.

The oceanographers are the ones claiming it is unprecedented.

Is the word new to you? It is unprecedented... because it's never happened before. No power reactors had melted down and dumped most of their release into the sea.

Unprecedented does not mean "worse than any other radiological event".

[zappaman]

69. You'd have better luck teaching calculus to a dog

Than explaining reality to those that rely on ENENews.

[FBaggins]

71. It isn't for his benefit.

It's for the poor souls who might stumble upon DU and think we're all that far 'round the bend when it's really just the fringe.

This nonsense really belongs in creative speculation with the rest of the woo (or off DU entirely).

[RobertEarl]

87. Are you sure you are not undercover anti-nuke?

'Cuz reading your words here make the industry look awful.

[NuclearDem]

97. Are you sure you're not undercover pro-nuclear?

'Cuz reading your words here makes the entire movement look batshit and in serious need of nap time.

[FBaggins]

98. That's why he isn't welcome back in the E/E group

It wasn't what got him banned, but the anti-nuke members weren't comfortable with being associated with such nonsense.

They preferred to think that he was a sock puppet

[RobertEarl]

128. Here is the reason I was blocked: Email with host

I asked E&E host XemaSab: You blocked me?

Why in the world would you block one of the most dedicated environmentalist in the group? Because I don't cotton to the nuclear industry? Because I did not ignore Pam?

XemaSab replied
I asked you and Pam to put each other on ignore. Neither of you did so.

******************

And so we wonder who is Pam I was demanded to ignore? Here is a post she made talking about nuclear power protestors:

"".... Let's see, the facilities that these supposedly "honorable" people criminally violated were built by the People's constitutionally elected, duly authorized representatives as a way to "provide for the common defense". Instead of honoring the wishes of the People; they opposed same.

Sounds like a couple of undemocratic, self-righteous bastards in my book.

PamW

http://www.democraticunderground.com/112762308#post22

[FBaggins]

134. I didn't say that's why you were banned

I said it's why you weren't welcomed back.

[RobertEarl]

72. And they are still releasing

The highest readings yet were just reported after the earlier hurricane's rains.

And those reports only because the science was taken out of the hands of the nuke die-hards.

Where are the cores? If they are not hot, why can't they dig them out and stop the pollution?

ENEnews.com, you should read it sometime.

[FBaggins]

75. No they aren't.

The highest readings yet were just reported after the earlier hurricane's rains.

It's amazing that even you fall for that nonsense.

Take a look at the readings... tell us what they are. And they declare that you haven't seen anything higher reported.

Go ahead... I dare you.

And those reports only because the science was taken out of the hands of the nuke die-hards.

Nope. Those reports are coming from the same people (Tepco) that have been releasing pretty much all of the numbers at the plant for three and a half years now.

Where are the cores?

Right where they've been for three and a half years now. Some proportion above the fuel plates, some at the bottom of the reactor vessel, and some at the bottom of the primary containment. It's unknown how much is in each position in each of the three reactors, and unless the muon tomography works well, we may not know for years. There may be a tiny amount that burned through the side steel of the primary containment (a 2cm hole last I read), but nothing has been found so far.

If they are not hot, why can't they dig them out and stop the pollution?

Seriously? You think if it wasn't hot they could just "dig it up"?

It would be pretty stupid to try that if it really were well into the ground (which it isn't). Since 99+% (perhaps 99.99+%) of the corium is still in the primary containment... the right thing to do is to wait until they can flood the containment before trying to remove the fuel.


ENEnews.com, you should read it sometime.

I read it all the time. I can always use a good belly laugh. Some pretty nutty characters over there.

[RobertEarl]

77. Bwahahaha

FB, They can't flood the containment because there are holes in the containment and the water just keeps flowing out into the ocean. Oh, they tried, but it all just washes away.

The government of Japan took away the reports of pollution from TEPCO.

I guess you have been smacked around pretty good by the pro-earth people on ENEnews.com, eh? Bwahahaha

[FBaggins]

79. You cackling is oddly fitting

That's exactly how so many of us picture you.

FB, They can't flood the containment because there are holes in the containment and the water just keeps flowing out into the ocean. Oh, they tried, but it all just washes away.

They haven't tried to flood the containment... but it isn't as though it's impossible to do. The holes are in steel linings and can be welded (by those same robots that you keep falsely claiming can't go into the buildings without melting). But that's likely years into the future after they remove the spent fuel from the pools. Better to wait and let the radiation continue to decline.

The government of Japan took away the reports of pollution from TEPCO.

Nope. Tepco remains the primary source for radiation reading in and around the plant... which they update regularly. Here's one from just a few days ago - http://radioactivity.nsr.go.jp/en/contents/9000/8986/24/278_k_20141010.pdf

I guess you have been smacked around pretty good by the pro-earth people on ENEnews.com, eh?

Nope. Never felt the need to post there. Best to let the lunatic fringe play with themselves. They are largely beyond helping (rarely even noticing when their nonsense is self-contradictory).

[RobertEarl]

80. ENEnews is killing nuclear support

Someone has to do it.

Too bad it took a pacific killing event like Fukushima to help people understand how bad nuclear power is for the planet.

[FBaggins]

82. Nope

It's really just a handful of nutcases having their own little pity party pretending that they're actually impacting something.

It hasn't impacted "nuclear support" at all.

As has been pointed out to you over and over again... there aren't many places where nuclear power had to take a step back due to Fukushima... but there are lots of nations that are expanding it rapidly.

The only question at this point is to what extent the retirement of older reactors from the first "renaissance" will exceed the rate of new construction.

But you just go right on thinking that the nuts at enenews are actually impacting public policy.

[RobertEarl]

85. ENEnews is doing Marvelous work

Last edited Mon Oct 13, 2014, 12:42 AM - Edit history (1)

Against the entrenched, highly funded and powerful nuke industry, ENEnews is like David against Goliath.

Too bad it took such a calamity as Fukushima to wake up everyone.

Heck, even here on DU, nuke support has gone from 80% to 10%.

David vs Goliath. It is an impressive battle of the little guy against a real monster.

ENEnews, rocks! Thanks for kicking this thread so much. I hadn't planned on it being so widely read.

[hunter]

102. ENEnews is a propaganda outlet that makes anti-nuclear activists look like loons.

For all we know, that's why it was created.

It's a noise machine.

[dumbcat]

104. +1

There are very few people here that place ANY credibility in enenews.

[FBaggins]

105. You're probably close re: why it was created

I suspect that it's more likely that it was created to garner advertising revenue and donations from suckers. The more sensational they can make something sound... the more money they make.

You're also correct that it makes the rational anti-nuclear activists look looney.

[RobertEarl]

107. It is funny to read these comments

It just makes everyone aware of just how powerful ENEnews is and how ENE is shaping the knowledge of the bad side of nuclear power.

I am sure that everyone notes the pro-nuke posters here are reduced to name calling without any refutations of what ENEnews.com actually delivers.

In some circles such denigrations are considered to be mere bigotry and full of prejudice.

[truedelphi]

118. As far as "Chemist" over at DailyKos & the findings of the

Water sample research, a friend of mine over at DK has been begging for an explantion of how the water sample protocols were decided on and instituted etc.

I mean, right now, for instance, I have a five gallon tank of water with a clump of dirt and manure, off to one side in the bucket, where the clump has not totally dispersed. Depending on where inside the bucket, I take a water sample, I could come up with a sample that shows total contamination of the water, or almost no contamination - nothing but H2O and fluoride and cholirine. (Or any combination in between.)

So it is with taking the samples of the ocean. Until the actual parameters of the research are explained, I don't know if you can take the conclusions of that research as being valid.