HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Wow, where did this come ...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 07:53 PM

 

Wow, where did this come from?

"We are proud of and shall continue our far-reaching and sound advances in matters of basic human needs--expansion of social security--broadened coverage in unemployment insurance --improved housing--and better health protection for all our people.

We favor a comprehensive study of the effect upon wildlife of the drainage of our wetlands.

We recognize the need for maintaining isolated wilderness areas.

A continuously vigorous enforcement of anti-trust laws

Legislation to enable closer Federal scrutiny of mergers which have a significant or potential monopolistic connotations;

Procedural changes in the antitrust laws to facilitate their enforcement.

Stimulate improved job safety of our workers, through assistance to the States, employees and employers;

Continue and further perfect its programs of assistance to the millions of workers with special employment problems, such as older workers, handicapped workers, members of minority groups, and migratory workers;

Strengthen and improve the Federal-State Employment Service and improve the effectiveness of the unemployment insurance system;...

Assure equal pay for equal work regardless of Sex;

Clarify and strengthen the eight-hour laws for the benefit of workers who are subject to federal wage standards on Federal and Federally-assisted construction, and maintain and continue the vigorous administration of the Federal prevailing minimum wage law for public supply contracts;

Extend the protection of the Federal minimum wage laws to as many more workers as is possible and practicable;

Continue to fight for the elimination of discrimination in employment because of race, creed, color, national origin, ancestry or sex;

Provide assistance to improve the economic conditions of areas faced with persistent and substantial unemployment;

Revise and improve the Taft-Hartley Act so as to protect more effectively the rights of labor unions, management, the individual worker, and the public."

Equal pay for equal work? Protect the rights of labor unions? Maintaining wilderness areas? Sounds almost like the rantings of a Communist, liberal, or perhaps an old school Democrat, right?

These are excerpts of the 1956 Republican Party platform, the platform that Ike ran on and won.

Just goes to show you how far to the right our entire political discourse has moved. How far to the right both political parties have moved. If Ike ran on this platform today, he would be considered as a fairly liberal Democrat, perhaps more liberal than Obama, certainly not more conservative than Obama.

Simply more evidence that we've been sliding right for the past forty years, so far to the right that what was once considered to be sound Republican positions are now considered to be wildly liberal, even for most Democrats.

We have tilted the balance too far to the right. You don't undo that mistake by continuing to chase votes on the right. You take a firm stand on the left, and fight for what is right. Anything else means that our country is simply going to continue its slide to the right, right into oblivion.

80 replies, 11007 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 80 replies Author Time Post
Reply Wow, where did this come from? (Original post)
MadHound Apr 2012 OP
baldguy Apr 2012 #1
handmade34 Apr 2012 #2
DiverDave Apr 2012 #28
Art_from_Ark Apr 2012 #34
coalition_unwilling Apr 2012 #49
sabrina 1 Apr 2012 #11
chknltl Apr 2012 #16
joshcryer Apr 2012 #19
AlbertCat Apr 2012 #39
sulphurdunn Apr 2012 #60
bananas Apr 2012 #3
enough Apr 2012 #4
bahrbearian Apr 2012 #5
DJ13 Apr 2012 #6
oldhippydude Apr 2012 #7
joshcryer Apr 2012 #20
xtraxritical Apr 2012 #43
Bluenorthwest Apr 2012 #41
lunatica Apr 2012 #53
Curmudgeoness Apr 2012 #8
Trailrider1951 Apr 2012 #10
Schema Thing Apr 2012 #9
abelenkpe Apr 2012 #12
AndyTiedye Apr 2012 #13
frankroberts Apr 2012 #14
abelenkpe Apr 2012 #15
joshcryer Apr 2012 #18
dotymed Apr 2012 #65
joshcryer Apr 2012 #17
Robb Apr 2012 #22
joshcryer Apr 2012 #24
MadHound Apr 2012 #29
joshcryer Apr 2012 #31
MadHound Apr 2012 #32
joshcryer Apr 2012 #35
Fumesucker Apr 2012 #45
xtraxritical Apr 2012 #46
MadHound Apr 2012 #69
bvar22 Apr 2012 #21
sabrina 1 Apr 2012 #23
Robb Apr 2012 #25
Bluenorthwest Apr 2012 #42
bvar22 Apr 2012 #44
xtraxritical Apr 2012 #48
bvar22 Apr 2012 #57
Robb Apr 2012 #55
bvar22 Apr 2012 #56
Robb Apr 2012 #59
bvar22 Apr 2012 #64
Robb Apr 2012 #68
bvar22 Apr 2012 #71
Robb Apr 2012 #72
bvar22 Apr 2012 #74
Robb Apr 2012 #75
bvar22 Apr 2012 #76
Robb Apr 2012 #77
dotymed Apr 2012 #67
dotymed Apr 2012 #66
OnyxCollie Apr 2012 #26
dotymed Apr 2012 #40
OnyxCollie Apr 2012 #50
UnrepentantLiberal Apr 2012 #27
Poll_Blind Apr 2012 #30
Left Coast2020 Apr 2012 #33
Egalitarian Thug Apr 2012 #36
SydBAThule Apr 2012 #37
Scuba Apr 2012 #38
lunatica Apr 2012 #54
MineralMan Apr 2012 #47
taught_me_patience Apr 2012 #51
BlueIris Apr 2012 #52
Zax2me Apr 2012 #58
varelse Apr 2012 #61
alphafemale Apr 2012 #62
MadHound Apr 2012 #70
nadinbrzezinski Apr 2012 #73
alphafemale Apr 2012 #78
nadinbrzezinski Apr 2012 #79
Uncle Joe Apr 2012 #63
riderinthestorm Apr 2012 #80

Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 07:57 PM

1. The question isn't where did it come from, but where did it go?

And WHY?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to baldguy (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 08:01 PM

2. money is powerful stuff...

I hear

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to handmade34 (Reply #2)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 12:22 AM

28. +1000

Monet IS the root of all evil

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DiverDave (Reply #28)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 12:50 AM

34. This guy is the root of all evil?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Art_from_Ark (Reply #34)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 11:27 AM

49. Bwa-ha-ha. When robbers in France say, "Give me your

 

monet," one can be excused for a bit of confusion

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to baldguy (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 09:21 PM

11. Good question.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to baldguy (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 10:01 PM

16. The deregulated capitalism monster ate all that....

...and it still wants more!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to chknltl (Reply #16)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 10:15 PM

19. Yep, and guess what? The rest of their platform was MIC and deregulation.

And no welfare for the people.

It's telling that that year was chosen. I wonder what the platform looked like before the Supreme Court shot down segregation.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to baldguy (Reply #1)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 08:49 AM

39. but where did it go? And WHY?

Isn't that all before the "Southern Strategy"?

From Wiki:

In American politics, the Southern strategy refers to the Republican Party strategy of winning elections in Southern states by exploiting anti-African American racism and fears of lawlessness among Southern white voters and appealing to fears of growing federal power in social and economic matters (generally lumped under the concept of states' rights).

*****

The strategy was first adopted under future Republican President Richard Nixon and Republican Senator Barry Goldwater in the late 1960s.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to baldguy (Reply #1)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 05:44 PM

60. It began with the resignation

of Nixon and was accelerated by the emergence of the New Democrats and the DLC after the defeat of Mondale in 1984. By becoming republicans, the democrats encouraged a republican move rightward and exacerbated their institution predilection toward fanaticism and fascism.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 08:03 PM

3. kr nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 08:04 PM

4. A graphic demonstration of what has happened to politics in this country in the last decades. (nt)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 08:07 PM

5. k&r

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 08:09 PM

6. Damn those liberals

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 08:13 PM

7. it is not widely known

that in 1964... the Goldwater platform contained a plank for guaranteed annual income..

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oldhippydude (Reply #7)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 10:19 PM

20. I don't think Barry Goldwater ever advocated Milton Friedman's negative income tax.

Milton Friedman's negative income tax was the only interesting thing that guy ever thought up. MLK was behind guaranteed income:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=XP5XAAAAIBAJ&sjid=A_cDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3919%2C3030097

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to joshcryer (Reply #20)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 11:11 AM

43. Nixon proposed the negative income tax first.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oldhippydude (Reply #7)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 10:50 AM

41. Another not so known Goldwater quote:

"Itís time America realized that there was no gay exemption in the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness in the Declaration of IndependenceĒ ó Barry Goldwater

Sadly, our President is far to the religious right of that thinking.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #41)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 11:50 AM

53. Nice try

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 08:13 PM

8. This is powerful stuff.

It makes me think. A lot.

What in the hell has happened to us?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Curmudgeoness (Reply #8)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 08:49 PM

10. A few greedy people are now driving this bus.....

I think our choice is now to mutiny or enjoy the ride...............

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 08:39 PM

9. marked

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 09:28 PM

12. Is that real? Nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 09:30 PM

13. The Pendulum Keeps Moving Ever Further to the Right


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 09:34 PM

14. your daddy's (grandfather's?) republican party?

it would be interesting to read the Democratic Party's platform for the same year.

Anyone?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to abelenkpe (Reply #15)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 10:08 PM

18. Wow, just finished it. Night and day. Damn Republicans wanted to privitize the roads.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to frankroberts (Reply #14)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 08:20 AM

65. My Grandfather (a Union steward for decades) and

his father (19 kids) were very active in the Republican party in their states. I believe Reagan was the last President he voted for. He would not like either party these days.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 10:01 PM

17. Did anyone READ the FULL TEXT? Where did that go? They IMPLEMENTED THE REST.

They implemented:

We shall maintain our powerful military strength as a deterrent to aggression and as a guardian of the peace. We shall maintain it ready, balanced and technologically advanced for these objectives only.


Military industrial complex.

We will faithfully preserve the sound financial management which already has reduced annual spending $14 billion below the budgets planned by our Democratic predecessors and made possible in 1954 a $7.4-billion tax cut, the largest one-year tax reduction in history.


Tax cuts for the rich.

We believe and will continue to prove that thrift, prudence and a sensible respect for living within income applies as surely to the management of our Government's budget as it does to the family budget.


Cutting deficits.

We hold that the strict division of powers and the primary responsibility of State and local governments must be maintained, and that the centralization of powers in the national Government leads to expansion of the mastery of our lives


States rights garbage (see: ALEC).

We hold that the protection of the freedom of men requires that budgets be balanced, waste in government eliminated, and taxes reduced.


More tax cuts for the rich.

The individual is of supreme importance.


Further reductions in Government spending as recommended in the Hoover Commission Report, without weakening the support of a superior defense program or depreciating the quality of essential services of government to our people.


MIC.

The military strength of the United States has been a key factor in the preservation of world peace during the past four years. We are determined to maintain that strength so long as our security and the peace of the world require it.


MIC.

The civil rights stuff, as history shows, was bullshit. It was propaganda. How can you respect "states rights" and then "believe in equality for everyone"? The entire Civil Rights Act was because states decided that "equality for everyone" was arbitrary. Their entire philosophy is veiled and corrupt. This implication that they had "good ideas" is precisely why authoritarians like Ron Paul are manipulative assholes, they say one thing but they mean something entirely different.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to joshcryer (Reply #17)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 10:38 PM

22. Excellent post. Good illustration of the fallacy of the "stopped clock" nonsense.

One good idea in a barrel of poo is still a barrel of poo -- and, what's more, they might just ignore the good idea, too.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Robb (Reply #22)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 10:48 PM

24. Those things were uncontroversial at that point in history.

Civil rights issues were a big deal and the Supreme Court had just shot down segregation. Of course both platforms are going to agree with civil rights issues at that point in history.

Hell they were both championing nuclear power, too.

Really manipulative I say, no one is going to read that entire spiel.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to joshcryer (Reply #17)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 12:27 AM

29. Let's go through those bullet points of yours

 

You speak of the expansion of the military industrial complex right off, and rightly so. It has become a bane to this country since the end of WWII. And guess what, it has been fed and cared for by every single president since then, both Republican and Democratic, including the current one.

You speak of tax cuts for the rich. Laughable as any sort of defense, considering that Obama extended one of the largest tax cuts for the rich ever. Not to mention that his various stimuli have included lots of tax cuts and tax credits, mainly benefiting the rich and corporate, even though it has been shown time and again that tax cuts and tax credits are the least stimulative economic tool out there.

You speak of deficit cutting. Again, laughable as any sort of defense, or have you forgotten the various deficit reducing plans which Obama has and is entertaining, including the Catfood Commission which goes where no American president has gone, namely cutting into Social Security.

You speak of states' rights, yet apparently are conveniently forgetting that Obama embraces states' rights when it comes to issues such as enforcing DOMA. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that his administration adapted a states' rights argument, allowing states to proceed with allowing gay marriage, but it is nonetheless a states' right argument. So, as we see, states' rights arguments are indeed double edged, and it really depends on what the issue is and what they're being used for. Obama seems to find it convenient to disregard states' rights when it comes to medical marijuana, but remembers about them when it comes to other issues.

The contention still stands, our political landscape has shifted dramatically to the right, taking both Republicans and Democrats with it. It has shifted so much that the Republican platform of a half century ago now reads like the platform that a conservative, corporate Democrat like Clinton or Obama would (and have) implemented.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MadHound (Reply #29)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 12:33 AM

31. We're talking about platforms here.

Obama campaigned on all of those things that you think I'm defending which I'm not.

The political landscape has certainly shifted to the right, as the American people have kept electing people like Obama.

That does not change the fact that the platforms are still distinct enough and that even then the Republicans were talking about privatization, deregulation, and refusing to even address social welfare.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to joshcryer (Reply #31)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 12:38 AM

32. So you essentially agree with the contention that today's Democrat,

 

Is yesterday's Republican. And what a sad statement that is.

Yes, there are differences in the current platforms of the Democrats and Republicans, but the difference is now really only a matter of degree.

The answer is not to keep electing ever more conservative Democrats, but rather to promote a resurgence of liberal values and positions. Otherwise we simply suffer a slow death as a society.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MadHound (Reply #32)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 01:04 AM

35. No, because most of todays Democrats aren't for the garbage in that platform.

They're weak on those issues because there are people going around saying that Republicans and Democrats are no different or that Democrats have shifted right and so on and who are basically incapable of changing the political landscape because of their impotence-by-purity-measure. A good chunk of Democrats have to fight the moderate or center right Democrats who are for privatization and who are for ending social welfare. Obama is one of those. He campaigned as one of those. (edit: Obama campaigned as center right)

The differences are still significant between the platforms. And there are still plenty, hundreds of good Democrats in the House who would completely repudiate that platform, as a right wing wet dream.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to joshcryer (Reply #35)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 11:17 AM

45. I remember watching the vice presidential debates in 2000..

Lieberman spent more time agreeing than disagreeing with Cheney..

Then Al Gore's hand picked VP candidate campaigned for the Republican candidates in 2008.

The reality came before the perception..

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MadHound (Reply #29)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 11:19 AM

46. The President allowed the GWBush cuts to go forward in order to pass the Affordable Care Act.

 

The tax cuts will die a natural death and hopefully we will be blessed with the ACA, which is also deficit reducing. I think the President is doing a rather good job considering the filibustering, obstructionist M. McConnell Congress he is stuck with. VOTE A STRAIGHT DEMOCRATIC BALLOT and get sour old nut jobs like McConnell out of Congress!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to xtraxritical (Reply #46)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 09:58 AM

69. Ummm, I think that you need to go re-read your history

 

The ACA was already passed and signed months before Obama decided to continue some of the largest tax cuts in our history. The two simply aren't linked.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 10:27 PM

21. Rachel Maddow:

Rachel Maddow:
"In America Today, Republican President Dwight D. Eisenhower Would Be Bernie Sanders in the U.S. Senate
The huge ever rapid shift rightward makes Dwight Eisenhower and Richard Nixon look like lefty radicals today".


http://www.alternet.org/news/149700?page=entire


Can anyone remember THIS Democratic Party?
"In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for allóregardless of station, race, or creed.

Among these are:

*The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

*The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

*The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

*The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

*The right of every family to a decent home;

*The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

*The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

*The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

America's own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for all our citizens." --FDR, Economic Bill of Rights


Please note that FDR listed the above as basic Human Rights,
to be protected by our government of The People,
and NOT Commodities to be sold to Americans by For Profit Private Corporations.

Not so long ago, if you voted FOR The Democrats,
you voted FOR the above Values.
Sadly, that is no longer true.

I miss THAT Democratic party.



You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bvar22 (Reply #21)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 10:40 PM

23. Excellent post, thank you!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bvar22 (Reply #21)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 11:02 PM

25. Did FDR mean "regardless of race, unless you're Japanese"?

If my history is correct, this "second bill of rights" came in a SOTU a year before the Japanese American camps were closed.

If today's Democratic Party has a statement this hypocritical under its belt, it's news to me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Robb (Reply #25)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 11:03 AM

42. It is common to hear Democrats speak of 'equality and justice' and then state they think

gay people should not hold equal rights. Same hypocrisy. Exact same thing.
Now old man Goldwater, right wing nemesis of my father's time, said this:

"Itís time America realized that there was no gay exemption in the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness in the Declaration of IndependenceĒ ó Barry Goldwater

No exemption. No 'God is in the mix' crap. No words such as 'Sacrament' which are without meaning in a secular context. A simple, direct statement. No exemption. Right now, only some Americans hold equal rights under the law. This is not a time of World War. Yet the discrimination continues unchecked. Unwarranted. Unjust.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Robb (Reply #25)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 11:15 AM

44. The Japanese Internment WAS a mistake,

...and one that has been acknowledged.

However, it does NOT make FDR a "racist".
It may make him guilty of Hysterical Xenophobia during Wartime,
but more likely, it makes him susceptible to the will of the people.
(Go read some of the speeches and demands being made in Congress after Dec 7th)

If you want to continue with the campaign of branding FDR a "Racist", I offer these two challenges:

1)Document FDR's "dislike" of the Japanese as a race prior to 1941.


2)Find ANY statement of Racial, Religious, and Economic Equality
stated as Democratic Party Policy that precedes FDR's State of the Union Address , 1941.
In that SOTU, he makes racial equality official Party Policy, and he did not make an exception for the Japanese.

He makes that Policy statement twice within two paragraphs:

"In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for allóregardless of station, race, or creed.


After the list of RIGHTS, it is followed again by:
"America's own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for all our citizens."


If there is a statement of Racial Equality as official policy of the Democratic Party that precedes FDR's,
I have been unable to find it.


I don't endorse the Japanese Internment during WW2.
However, I do understand it.

I consider the attacks on FDR that attempt to discredit him as a "racist"
to be a cheap shot,
not well thought out,
and previously emanating from the Right Wing,
Unfortunately, it has been recently picked up and repeated by the Democratic Party "Centrists"
who desperately clutch at this in a misguided attempt to somehow make "Centrism" appear more palatable
or look better by comparison.


It is not fair or logical to judge historical figures by our current Social Values.
To do so, we would have to write off every single president prior to LBJ as a "Racist",
even Abraham Lincoln.

We would also be forced to write off the vast majority of Americans in 1941 as "racists" also.
FDR did not act in a vacuum, but went along with the hysterical majority of Americans,
in the street and in Congress. Most Americans believed that FDR did not go far enough with the internments.

Go read some history of life in California immediately after Dec7, 1941,
or, if you don't like to read history,
go see Spielberg's movie, 1941.
(If anything, Spielberg is guilty of understatement with this movie)
The population were absolutely sure that the "Filthy Nips" were going to land on the beaches immediately,
and that the "Japs" had already landed Saboteurs and Agents that were marking targets in California.

It was an insane, hysterical time, and to pull one piece of it out of context,
and use it to smear ANYBODY living in the USA at that time shows a lack of knowledge and discernment.



I will repeat the two challenges:

1) Document FDR's "dislike" of the Japanese as a race prior to 1941.

2) Find ANY statement of Racial, Religious, and Economic Equality
stated as Democratic Party Policy that precedes FDR's State of the Union Address , 1941.





Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bvar22 (Reply #44)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 11:23 AM

48. Also, internment may have been to protect them from harm.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to xtraxritical (Reply #48)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 01:22 PM

57. That case can certainly be made.

It is difficult to find The Facts from ground level immediately after the Pearl harbor Attack.
It was not a shining period of our history.
There ARE Congressional Speeches on record that will turn your blood cold if you have the stomach to research them.

There ARE documented cases of vigilante killings of Japanese Americans in California during the period after Dec 7th.
"All of these statements were quite in keeping with popular sentiment. Immediately after Pearl Harbor, Japanese were excluded from various labor unions. Between December 8, and March 31, anti-Japanese rage resulted in 36 cases of vigilantism, including seven murders. And a March 1942 national public opinion poll showed 93 percent in favor of evacuating alien Japanese. While 59 percent wanted to evacuate U.S. citizens of Japanese origin, only 25 percent disapproved.

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v02/v02p-45_Weber.html


Most of what I know was told to me by my parents who were in Southern California during that time.
(My father enlisted in the Marines on Dec 8th, and served throughout the War in the Pacific).
It was my parents who made the comment that Spielberg's Movie (1941) was an understatement of the hysteria and
fear that Japanese Saboteurs and Spies had already landed and were marking targets and preparing the beaches for the imminent invasion.

"In the months following the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, many expected an immediate attack against the West Coast. Fear gripped the country and a wave of hysterical antipathy against the Japanese engulfed the Pacific Coast.

The FBI quickly began rounding up any and all "suspicious" Japanese for internment. None was ever charged with any crime. Almost all were simply Japanese community leaders, Buddhist or Shinto priests, newspaper editors, language or Judo instructors, or labor organizers. The Japanese community leadership was liquidated in one quick operation.


<snip>

In February 1942, Lt. Gen. John L. DeWitt, Commanding General of the Western Defense Command, requested authorization from Secretary of War Henry L. Stimson to evacuate "Japanese and other subversive persons" from the West Coast area. On February 19, President Franklin Roosevelt signed Executive Order No. 9066 authorizing the Secretary of War or any military commander to establish "military areas" and to exclude from them "any or all persons. A month later, President Roosevelt signed Executive Order No. 9102 establishing the War Relocation Authority, which eventually operated the internment camps. Roosevelt named Milton Eisenhower, brother of the future president, to head the WRA.

Without a murmur of dissent, the Congress quickly affirmed Executive Order 9066 with the passage of Public Law 77-503.

Beginning in March, the Army organized the evacuation of some 77 000 U.S. citizens of Japanese origin ("Nisei") and 43 000 mostly older Japanese citizens ("Issei") from California and parts of Washington, Oregon and Arizona."

<snip>

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v02/v02p-45_Weber.html



I find the attempts to disqualify FDR's Presidency, his Economic Policies, and his courageous STAND against the Monied Interests by hanging the Japanese Internments around HIS neck to be beyond disingenuous.
They are the product of shallow thinking, a lack of knowledge, an absence of curiosity, and a desperate grasping of Partisan Straws.

YES.
FDR's order for the Internment of Japanese Americans (in all probability) exceeded the bounds of the Constitution,
and was a mistake driven by fear and hysteria.
It was a disgraceful episode.
...but it was NOT because FDR was a "racist" or a "hypocrite".

Despite the Japanese Internment,
FDR WON a REAL World War on TWO fronts in less than 1/2 the time the US has been in Afghanistan.
FDR also established the Economic & Social foundation for the Modern Democratic Party,
the Party I joined 44 years ago.
Unfortunately, the foundation established by FDR is currently being demolished.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bvar22 (Reply #44)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 12:00 PM

55. I didn't say he was a racist. I said he was a hypocrite.

You will know them by their actions, not their words.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Robb (Reply #55)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 12:47 PM

56. I see you ran from the two challenges I posted.

As far as FDR now being a "hypocrite",
LOL.
"Let he who is without sin...."


The contemptible meme that is being used to discredit FDRs Economic Policies by insinuating that he was a "racist",
therefore everything he did is disqualified
is not only a Logical Fallacy, but is the realm of shallow minds and Swift boating Partisans.

I am distressed to find this particular attack so common on DU,
but I can count on it as sure as I can count on the Sun coming up.
All one has to do is mention that the Liberal Economic Policies of FDR built the greatest Middle/Working Class the World has ever seen,
and within 3 posts, some partisan will chime in with that old diversionary False meme,
"...But he was a RACIST (or in your case a "hypocrite") because of the Japanese Internment",
so, through some stretch beyond LOGIC, all of his New Deal Policies and the STAND he took against the "Monied Interests" is somehow discounted.

Go figure.




Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bvar22 (Reply #56)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 03:10 PM

59. Giving a SOTU about racial equality while imprisoning a race is hypocritical.

You seem to want to discount the camps and only focus on FDR's good qualities.

"Sure, he unjustly imprisoned all those Japanese folks, but look at the jobs created!!"

In another time, such uncritical hero worship might get you labeled a fanboy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Robb (Reply #59)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 11:29 PM

64. Still running.

If you intend to brand FDR a racist and a "Hypocrite", then extend that to include the Congress,
and a vast majority of the American People.

"In the months following the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, many expected an immediate attack against the West Coast. Fear gripped the country and a wave of hysterical antipathy against the Japanese engulfed the Pacific Coast.

The FBI quickly began rounding up any and all "suspicious" Japanese for internment. None was ever charged with any crime. Almost all were simply Japanese community leaders, Buddhist or Shinto priests, newspaper editors, language or Judo instructors, or labor organizers. The Japanese community leadership was liquidated in one quick operation.


<snip>

In February 1942, Lt. Gen. John L. DeWitt, Commanding General of the Western Defense Command, requested authorization from Secretary of War Henry L. Stimson to evacuate "Japanese and other subversive persons" from the West Coast area. On February 19, President Franklin Roosevelt signed Executive Order No. 9066 authorizing the Secretary of War or any military commander to establish "military areas" and to exclude from them "any or all persons. A month later, President Roosevelt signed Executive Order No. 9102 establishing the War Relocation Authority, which eventually operated the internment camps. Roosevelt named Milton Eisenhower, brother of the future president, to head the WRA.

Without a murmur of dissent, the Congress quickly affirmed Executive Order 9066 with the passage of Public Law 77-503.

Beginning in March, the Army organized the evacuation of some 77 000 U.S. citizens of Japanese origin ("Nisei") and 43 000 mostly older Japanese citizens ("Issei") from California and parts of Washington, Oregon and Arizona."

<snip>

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v02/v02p-45_Weber.html


Your frantic and disingenuous attempts to discredit the founder of the modern Democratic Party
says more about you than it says about FDR.


You will know them by their WORKS.
Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bvar22 (Reply #64)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 09:12 AM

68. If you can't handle a little criticism, perhaps you should start a safe haven group.

You could post pictures and talk about how much you love everything he does no matter what.

You want to blame congress for Presidential EOs? Does this apply everywhere, or just with your authoritarian hero?

I haven't seen such blatant apologia for the misdeeds of the Executive branch since the Dubya years. One of us may be "frantic," but it doesn't seem to be me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Robb (Reply #68)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 10:52 AM

71. Have you no mirors in your home?

The bar for irony at DU has been lowered several notches today.

The unwarranted detention and incarceration of the Japanese Americans after Dec. 7th has been admitted,
and condemned in my posts.

However, your attack on FDR exceeds the bounds of "criticism",
and crosses the line into name calling and personal vendetta without support or references.
You have avoided addressing Any and ALL of the issues and context I have provided,
and sunk to repeated screams of "Hypocrite".
I Get It.

You have plenty of company.
The Monied Interests were the first to twist the Internment into cries of "Racism" and "Hypocrisy" in their attempt to undercut the New Deal, Social Security, and the other "Socialist" programs that built the greatest and most prosperous Working Class the World has ever seen.

God forbid that we examine and revive these Economic Policies.
We must scream "HYPOCRITE" instead!!!!!

Cui Bono?

Again, I will leave you with these two challenges:
1) Document FDR's "dislike" of the Japanese as a race prior to 1941.

2) Find ANY statement of Racial, Religious, and Economic Equality
stated as Democratic Party Policy that precedes FDR's State of the Union Address , 1941.



You can spin your wheels and throw gravel and smoke in the air,
and lash out with unsupported cries of "Hypocrite",
but until you address these two challenges,
you ain't got shit.
Please show your work,
and support your theories with references and cites,
as I have.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bvar22 (Reply #71)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 11:36 AM

72. You don't have to "twist" to think the Japanese Internment was a racist construct.

Nor is it a stretch to call a speech on racial equality hypocritical while 100,000 citizens were being imprisoned because of their race. I'm frankly astounded you think otherwise.

Defending a President who instituted racist policy on the grounds that "mean old Congress made him do it" is such unblinking apologia as to beggar belief. Hutus instituted the first comprehensive national protection for mountain gorillas on earth. By your argument that excuses the slaughter of 750,000 Tutsi in 1994.

I fear your hero worship blinds you to the flaws present in every President, and smacks of the most dangerous and ignorant zealotry that cherry-picks history until it fits their particular cause.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Robb (Reply #72)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 01:59 PM

74. Spinning and twisting into ever tighter misinformed little circles of willful misrepresentation,

without cites, references, or historical context.
(ALL of which I have provided to support my posts)


Again, I will leave you with these two challenges:
1) Document FDR's "dislike" of the Japanese as a race prior to 1941.

2) Find ANY statement of Racial, Religious, and Economic Equality
stated as Democratic Party Policy that precedes FDR's State of the Union Address , 1941.



You can spin your wheels and throw gravel and smoke in the air,
and lash out with unsupported cries of "Hypocrite",
but until you address these two challenges,
you ain't got shit.
Please show your work,
and support your theories with references and cites,
as I have.


Are you willing to apply your judgments of "Hypocrisy" and "Racism" against All Presidents and Political figures,
past & present, using the same narrow criteria for condemnation?

Will you address "Homophobia" in your constructs which ignore History and Context?

Are you willing to assign ALL power to The President regardless of Congress and Will of the People,
and make every President completely responsible for ALL policy that hits the pavement?

"In the months following the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, many expected an immediate attack against the West Coast. Fear gripped the country and a wave of hysterical antipathy against the Japanese engulfed the Pacific Coast.

The FBI quickly began rounding up any and all "suspicious" Japanese for internment. None was ever charged with any crime. Almost all were simply Japanese community leaders, Buddhist or Shinto priests, newspaper editors, language or Judo instructors, or labor organizers. The Japanese community leadership was liquidated in one quick operation.


<snip>

In February 1942, Lt. Gen. John L. DeWitt, Commanding General of the Western Defense Command, requested authorization from Secretary of War Henry L. Stimson to evacuate "Japanese and other subversive persons" from the West Coast area. On February 19, President Franklin Roosevelt signed Executive Order No. 9066 authorizing the Secretary of War or any military commander to establish "military areas" and to exclude from them "any or all persons. A month later, President Roosevelt signed Executive Order No. 9102 establishing the War Relocation Authority, which eventually operated the internment camps. Roosevelt named Milton Eisenhower, brother of the future president, to head the WRA.

Without a murmur of dissent, the Congress quickly affirmed Executive Order 9066 with the passage of Public Law 77-503.

Beginning in March, the Army organized the evacuation of some 77 000 U.S. citizens of Japanese origin ("Nisei") and 43 000 mostly older Japanese citizens ("Issei") from California and parts of Washington, Oregon and Arizona."

<snip>

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v02/v02p-45_Weber.html


Are you even aware of the inherent paradox of publicly condemning somebody else as a "Hypocrite" with the fervor and arrogance of a Bible Tent Revival Preacher?


I have argued with Republicans and Conservatives who were better informed about the History of the USA
and the administration of FDR.
Do yourself a favor a go read up on the history of the USA immediately after the Bombing of Pearl Harbor
before continuing the campaign of smears originated by the "Monied Interests" in order to discredit FDR's very successful Economic Policies.
You probably have family members who were alive during that time, and can tell you what was happening.
Go ask them.

Just. Do. It.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bvar22 (Reply #74)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 03:41 PM

75. So FDR liked Japanese people, but put them in camps anyhow.

Would you go so far as to say some of his best friends were Japanese?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Robb (Reply #75)

Mon Apr 16, 2012, 10:36 AM

76. Do yourself a favor, Robb.

When you find yourself reduced to posting a response that begins with the word
"So..." followed by a statement from your imagination,
it is less embarrassing to simply walk away without posting anything at all.


Almost every post that begins with the word "So..."
that is followed by something that no one has said is a Strawman Logical Fallacy.
That is the Internet Equivalence of,
"Yeah?...YEAH?...
Well.... your mother wears Army boots!"

Not very flattering.

No charge for the lesson.
Happy Monday!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bvar22 (Reply #76)

Mon Apr 16, 2012, 11:20 AM

77. So you're running from your premise.

Thanks, professor!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bvar22 (Reply #56)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 08:40 AM

67. Why has there been no mention of the planned coup against FDR?

The elite of that period (Rockefeller,Melon, Carnegie, Bush, etc..) were so terrified that their grasp on American control was being destroyed by FDR's "people first" policies, they hired General Smedley Butler to lead an army of vets against the WH, to seize control from FDR. IMO, if he had prosecuted those traitors, our country would be a much more equal country.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bvar22 (Reply #44)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 08:28 AM

66. bvar22, you are spot on.

In 1941 there were continuous scrutiny on our coasts for Japanese invaders. Much of the populace was certain we would be invaded. FDR...if only we could get another.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bvar22 (Reply #21)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 11:54 PM

26. "...established for allóregardless of station, race, or creed."

Last edited Sat Apr 14, 2012, 02:04 PM - Edit history (1)

I must take exception with that.

FDR screwed over resident alien Japanese and Japanese American farmers.

Japanese-operated farms were increasing and Japanese wage demands were approaching Caucasian pay rates, despite laws passed to prevent them from becoming naturalized citizens, owning property (that's the big one) and later, renting property, as well as reproducing (female migrant workers were denied entry.)

These laws were passed to benefit the capitalist class who used them to take advantage of the Japanese by forcing them into unorthodox land agreements, charging them high rent, taking out liens on crops, etc.

Being propertyless, the Japanese were coerced to give away what they had.

When the Japanese were in internment (concentration) camps, the farm corporations made a deal with the government- to avoid the crops dying in the fields during war time, the government would subsidize dummy corporations to harvest the crops so the parent corporations could avoid being exposed to risk. The dummy corporations would then sell the crops back to the parent corporations for cheap. Big profits all around.

The national security threat was merely a ruse. It was the permissible cause that allowed it to be possible.

Cues from media and political elites conflated Japanese Americans with enemy Japan. Words like "voluntary evacuee" were used. "Concentration camp" was used in early media reports, but when conditions began to resemble Germany, it was changed to "internment camp."

Class interest begat public opinion begat government laws. (Actually, class interest begat government laws; the gullible public only had to think it was their idea.)

I can't "hate" FDR for doing what he did anymore than I can "hate" Ulysses S. Webb for the California Alien Land Act. Both are simply cogs in the machine.

The "privileged position of business" over government sets it high above any pluralistic interest group, and mere mortal voters are insignificant.

FDR gave great speeches, had a wonderful wife, and liked dogs. He created the social safety net.

He was not above screwing over a minority group for capitalists' benefit, however.

I can only shake my head and laugh when I read that Obama is THE ONE who will turn this country around. He is only a man, and the structure he is in is very big and very powerful. The structure put him where he is. The gullible public only had to think it was their idea.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OnyxCollie (Reply #26)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 10:39 AM

40. I think that anyone with a knowledge of American history

realizes that FDR perpetrated terrible acts against Japanese Americans. That cannot be undone. IMO, that does not diminish the great things he did for America and the war devastated nations, post WWII. In fact his implementation of the Marshal Plan in rebuilding Europe and Japan has made them more people friendly nations than America has ever been.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dotymed (Reply #40)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 11:40 AM

50. Germany's a great place now,

but one needs to understand their Basic Law and how it prohibits undemocratic action by associations (corporations), protecting the formation of opinions, etc.

The Japanese got fucked over because FDR gave in to corporate interests. It was 120,000 people then; now it's 303,000,000.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MadHound (Original post)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 11:57 PM

27. Amazing.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Reply #27)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 12:29 AM

30. You can say that again! nt

PB

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MadHound (Original post)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 12:40 AM

33. I think I 've heard a few repug critters on the idiot box.....

...say that this is not the Republican party they used to know. It all started going downhill in 1980.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MadHound (Original post)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 04:58 AM

36. K&R for a modicum of sanity. n/t

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MadHound (Original post)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 05:31 AM

37. Where did it all go you ask?

 

Ask the millions of 'Democrats' who voted for Rancid Ronnie.

The people who voted for Rancid Ronne are getting EXACTLY the America he siad he would give them.

Happy now non liberal and non progressive Dems?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MadHound (Original post)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 06:38 AM

38. The Police Union representing Milwaukee officers endorsed Scott Walker a week or so ago.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Reply #38)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 11:51 AM

54. Makes one wonder about the Milwaukee police doesn't it?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MadHound (Original post)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 11:21 AM

47. Platform statements are very nice. Implementation, not so much.

I lived through that period. Both parties, as usual, promised popular ideas in their platforms. The party that won did not follow through with those glittering generalities, I'm afraid.

Party platforms are useless in predicting how the winner of the election will govern. That is true for both parties.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MadHound (Original post)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 11:47 AM

51. Half of Repubs probably still think that's their platform

low information voters.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MadHound (Original post)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 11:48 AM

52. Yikes.

That is sad.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MadHound (Original post)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 02:55 PM

58. Tells the tale of a party spoiled.

 

And bowing to its most extreme elements.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MadHound (Original post)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 06:13 PM

61. This makes me homesick

for what was America. I'm not even sure we're a nation, now

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MadHound (Original post)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 06:50 PM

62. I'm not sure this is real.

Especially the equal pay regardless of sex bit.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to alphafemale (Reply #62)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 10:01 AM

70. It's real,

 

I posted a link from a legitimate source. But guess what, you can go do some research your own self and see that it is true. There are indeed multiple sources out there for this information.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to alphafemale (Reply #62)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 11:41 AM

73. It is...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #73)

Mon Apr 16, 2012, 06:25 PM

78. That Equal Pay thing still seems odd phrasing for 1956.

Most women were NOT working then. Let alone in anything that could be considered "Equal Work"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #73)

Mon Apr 16, 2012, 06:32 PM

79. I know but your Republican Party of 1956

was quite progressive, in ways that it started to lose by 1960

You could even say the hard right crazy ness started with the civil rights legislation and all them lovely Dixiecrats abandoning the Democratic Party.

This is what makes all this so damn odd, but per usual parties never ever remain the same.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MadHound (Original post)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 06:53 PM

63. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, MadHound.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MadHound (Original post)

Mon Apr 16, 2012, 06:37 PM

80. Amazing!! Have to add my name on to this. A huge K&R nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread