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Thu Apr 12, 2012, 02:17 PM

Can you really say that being a stay home Mother is a career?

I was a stay at home Dad for a couple of years and I know how tough it is to take care of 3 kids, do the household chores, etc. It was fricking hard.

I kind of wish I had the money for maids, a break at the Country Club, etc--- I digress---

But--- I wouldn't consider it a working career.

Both my wife and I work and we're still raising our kids---so technically---for those who say that being a stay home parent is a career decision--- my wife and I have two careers. Home and work.

Mitt Romney put his wife front and center with regards to women's issues--- workplace equality--Pay---healthcare, etc....

How could she possibly know what goes on in the workplace if she's never been in the workplace?

She is no expert---not even close.... so her getting called out on it is perfectly fine as far as I'm concerned.



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Reply Can you really say that being a stay home Mother is a career? (Original post)
trumad Apr 2012 OP
librechik Apr 2012 #1
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #50
Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #2
trumad Apr 2012 #5
Maine-ah Apr 2012 #8
HopeFor2006 Apr 2012 #22
CTyankee Apr 2012 #76
laundry_queen Apr 2012 #93
teddy51 Apr 2012 #3
Hell Hath No Fury Apr 2012 #4
Bluerthanblue Apr 2012 #14
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #39
RainDog Apr 2012 #102
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #117
RainDog Apr 2012 #130
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #131
joeglow3 Apr 2012 #133
RainDog Apr 2012 #136
Bandit Apr 2012 #6
snooper2 Apr 2012 #7
asjr Apr 2012 #9
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #46
The Straight Story Apr 2012 #10
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #57
Happyhippychick Apr 2012 #11
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #12
EFerrari Apr 2012 #29
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #37
EFerrari Apr 2012 #42
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #54
blueamy66 Apr 2012 #59
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #62
malaise Apr 2012 #13
Ezlivin Apr 2012 #15
abelenkpe Apr 2012 #16
Sheepshank Apr 2012 #17
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #43
former9thward Apr 2012 #18
trumad Apr 2012 #26
former9thward Apr 2012 #28
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #40
former9thward Apr 2012 #75
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #99
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #120
former9thward Apr 2012 #123
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #124
former9thward Apr 2012 #125
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #132
joeglow3 Apr 2012 #134
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #141
joeglow3 Apr 2012 #142
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #143
joeglow3 Apr 2012 #144
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #146
Cleita Apr 2012 #19
Bluerthanblue Apr 2012 #23
Iris Apr 2012 #52
Cleita Apr 2012 #73
Iris Apr 2012 #80
Cleita Apr 2012 #81
Iris Apr 2012 #82
Cleita Apr 2012 #87
Iris Apr 2012 #89
Cleita Apr 2012 #91
Iris Apr 2012 #138
Cleita Apr 2012 #139
Mimosa Apr 2012 #107
REP Apr 2012 #115
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #55
Cleita Apr 2012 #72
Iris Apr 2012 #85
Cleita Apr 2012 #90
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #100
Cleita Apr 2012 #101
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #118
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #119
October Apr 2012 #98
Justice4allofus Apr 2012 #20
Cleita Apr 2012 #31
PassingFair Apr 2012 #68
Opportunityknocks Apr 2012 #21
seabeyond Apr 2012 #24
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #41
Permanut Apr 2012 #25
trumad Apr 2012 #27
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #47
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #45
proud2BlibKansan Apr 2012 #30
MatthewStLouis Apr 2012 #32
Iris Apr 2012 #56
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #61
joeglow3 Apr 2012 #135
Jennicut Apr 2012 #33
lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #34
Generic Other Apr 2012 #104
SheilaT Apr 2012 #35
GeorgeGist Apr 2012 #36
RebelOne Apr 2012 #38
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #44
Avalux Apr 2012 #51
Iris Apr 2012 #48
TBF Apr 2012 #49
Broderick Apr 2012 #53
blueamy66 Apr 2012 #60
Broderick Apr 2012 #70
blueamy66 Apr 2012 #58
RebelOne Apr 2012 #63
OneTenthofOnePercent Apr 2012 #78
H2O Man Apr 2012 #64
DevonRex Apr 2012 #65
trumad Apr 2012 #67
DevonRex Apr 2012 #86
quaker bill Apr 2012 #66
lillypaddle Apr 2012 #69
Mimosa Apr 2012 #108
kiva Apr 2012 #71
Cleita Apr 2012 #74
REP Apr 2012 #116
lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #77
ManiacJoe Apr 2012 #79
Bruce Wayne Apr 2012 #83
KoKo Apr 2012 #84
baldguy Apr 2012 #88
KoKo Apr 2012 #94
baldguy Apr 2012 #96
KoKo Apr 2012 #97
varelse Apr 2012 #92
Zax2me Apr 2012 #95
Mimosa Apr 2012 #109
La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2012 #103
Butterbean Apr 2012 #105
greyl Apr 2012 #106
Mimosa Apr 2012 #110
IndyJones Apr 2012 #113
Odin2005 Apr 2012 #121
Butterbean Apr 2012 #137
Odin2005 Apr 2012 #140
greymattermom Apr 2012 #111
IndyJones Apr 2012 #112
Quantess Apr 2012 #114
BeHereNow Apr 2012 #122
cherokeeprogressive Apr 2012 #126
Romulox Apr 2012 #127
ananda Apr 2012 #128
Sabriel Apr 2012 #129
marshall Apr 2012 #145
Xyzse Apr 2012 #147

Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 02:18 PM

1. I'm sure she had plenty of help, paid and otherwise, and never had to worry about

a budget, unlike practically every other mother who calls that her job.

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Response to librechik (Reply #1)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 05:13 PM

50. I'm sure she knows all about having plastic surgery, hiring nannies, telling the chef what to cook,

shopping at the finest stores, which jewelers have the most unique designs, which of their homes she likes the best, etc. Lots of experience!

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 02:19 PM

2. I suppose it works both ways.

 

Those who do not work in the workplace cannot comment on it's challenges and those that do not stay at home taking care of children cannot comment on those challenges either.

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Response to Snake Alchemist (Reply #2)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 02:21 PM

5. Well some have done both...

Which gives them a valid opinion.

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Response to trumad (Reply #5)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 02:24 PM

8. I've done both.

I found it easier to leave the house for work, than to stay home and raise a child and keep the house up.

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Response to trumad (Reply #5)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 02:50 PM

22. I have done both.

Both are challenging but in different ways. A stay at home mom is really cut off from the professional/work world. My friendships and associations were almost always with other stay at home moms. It was very difficult to get back into "the real world" once I decided to return to the work force.

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Response to trumad (Reply #5)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 07:35 PM

76. I did both. I stayed home for 10 years raising the 3 kids. Then I went into the workforce.

Then I became a single mother. At that point, I realized clearly what was the issue. Here was an employer who could literally hold the mortgage to the house I had with my kids in his hands with control over my employment or non-employment. Before, when I had stayed at home, it had not been an issue. Now it was. That was a defining moment for me, you better believe it.

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Response to trumad (Reply #5)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 08:56 PM

93. Not working yet

but I went from stay at home mom of 4 with a fairly financially stable life, to a single mom who is now in school full time. I'm gone most of the day and my youngest is in child care, and when I am home, I'm doing homework. I must rely and trust my untrustworthy ex to pay me the monthly support so I can pay the bills and soon enough I will be in the workforce and part of my support will be cut off.

I can say that being a stay at home mom was much easier. Sure it was a lot of work, but it was less stressful. I knew if one of my kids got hurt at school, I'd be home when the school called for me to take them to the hospital for stitches. I knew if *I* happened to get sick, I could rest and leave the housework for a day. Grocery shopping was an adventure for the young ones when they weren't in school and was a chance to leisurely shop and teach the kids about prices and budgeting and nutrition. I could schedule doctor and dentist appointments whenever I felt like. I had time to go for walks and work out. I had time to cook elaborate meals and experiment. If I felt like popping on to DU for an hour while the baby was sleeping, I could do that too.

Now, with being in school, I have to stress if one of the kids gets sick, who is going to watch them? What if I have a final that day? That actually happened to me in my first year - the morning of a final, my youngest started throwing up. Her daycare obviously couldn't take her. I called my mom who has a good job and asked her if she could watch my daughter. Luckily, it was a slow day for her and she could leave work. What do women do when they don't have family help and they can't send their kid to school sick?

I no longer have time for anything but the basic things that need to get done.

Last term I got sick. Really sick. Nearly ended up with pneumonia. I missed almost a week of school. I had a lighter course-load than normal so I eventually caught up, but my illness and hacking cough lingered for months because I couldn't rest properly. I couldn't help but think, "What if I was working and was on an hourly wage and needed full time hours to make my rent AND I didn't live in Canada and have free healthcare?" the very thought made me sick. I cannot even imagine how difficult it is for working moms in the US today. There really is no comparison between that and the cushy SAHMWARH life (stay at home mom with a rich husband).

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 02:20 PM

3. I would not consider it a working career either, but I like you know how damn tough it is. Unless

 

you have the patience of a Saint, those damn kids can drive one around the bend. I see the stress on my daughter-in-laws face every day, ugh. lol I always ask her what she does in her spare time! That usually gets a snarl.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 02:21 PM

4. I do view stay at home Mom as --

a Job/career.

Now, can such a woman truly know or speak to issues related to jobs outside the home? No, I do not.

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Response to Hell Hath No Fury (Reply #4)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 02:28 PM

14. agree. And stay at home parents

who work part-time after the kids are in school have as much right to speak to issues related to work, as the OP does discuss the issue of full time parenting.

I do not have a negative opinion of those who are able to, and choose to parent full time.

It's too bad that those who do have that choice, don't try to make sure others have that choice available as well.

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Response to Hell Hath No Fury (Reply #4)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 04:58 PM

39. That's precisely it. A stay-at-home mom provides experience for having another stay-at-home mom

style of job.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #39)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 11:42 PM

102. since you've never been a stay-at-home mom

and have no children and have repeatedly said you don't want them and have no experience with parenting, etc.. (including parenting children with special needs)... how can you know what it's like to be a stay-at-home mom? what is a "stay-at-home mom" style of job? how is that different than other jobs?

why do you assume that every such circumstance is the same? this is a class issue - the luxury of taking time off from a job that's paid for by others. but, honestly, how is it different than someone who leaves a job and decides to take time to write fulltime, or to travel and write about it - what skills are those people bringing to other jobs? and how is this different than what some women do or have done?

you assume that every parent who ever stayed home has no skills that are used in various ways - and this simply isn't true.

the truth is that parents who opt to have one that is designated as the "at home" parent have the financial resources to do so if they make such a decision. sometimes those resources include money from the job of the parent who decided to change that job and be at home with children. that person didn't become brain-dead because of one choice vs. another.

just because the male-identified position in society has been work for pay, and because our society is structured to pretend that's more important - this isn't necessarily so.

something that women or men who stay home for an extended time have to realize is that this usually impacts their entire working lives - this is one reason that women earn less than men, on average, over the course of their careers.

If I were you, I would maybe step back and recognize that you really are just talking about gender stereotypes, not real people.

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Response to RainDog (Reply #102)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 08:24 AM

117. How? For the same reason you don't have to jump from a 5-storey bldg to know it hurts

As to how it's different to be a full-time mom, from being a full-time dad, a full-time grandmother, a full-time grandfather, a full-time caretaking aunt, taking care of nieces, a full-time whatever, I'm not sure, but I call all of those family relations, and they all entail family love, and family roles, and doing stuff for family that people have done through the ages.

My parents are kinda getting older and take huge times out of my life for them. As they get older, I'll begin to take even more time out of my life for them. Why? Because I love them and they're family. However, I won't be able to use their care on my resume.

When I was married (all the times that I was married), I took care of buying the stuff we needed for the house, of doing most of the cooking, and so on. Can't add that to my resume.

When I was a kid, my grandma and grandpa took me home with them on weekends. My grandma made me foods that were my favorites, spent hours talking to me, taught me to play dominoes with her, and my grandpa told me how things worked in the world. They couldn't add that stuff to their resumes.

A few weekends ago I took one of my nieces to the movies. Can't use that on my resume either.

Just can't add "I love my family like people do, and therefore I did the normal things for them" to our resumes.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #117)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 02:48 PM

130. stay-at-home parents also do volunteer work

in organizations that cannot afford to pay for managerial staff. those positions, however, are most definitely resume material.

your view of what a person who stays at home with kids actually does is very narrow. you also assume those same people have no skills before choosing to stay at home.

that's the point I was making.

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Response to RainDog (Reply #130)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 04:55 PM

131. That's different because that's not a family relationship. And you're right...

even people with skills get married, have kids, are brothers, sisters, cousins, daughters, sons, and have all kinds of family ties.

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Response to RainDog (Reply #130)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 05:19 PM

133. Give it up

You are pissing in the wind.

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Response to joeglow3 (Reply #133)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 06:20 PM

136. good advice n/t

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 02:21 PM

6. If that is the case then the 92.3% of women losing jobs is BS

I would imagine at least some of those women have kids...

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 02:21 PM

7. I'm at work from 8-5, my wife is working from 8-5

The fact that she happens to be at home with a two year old and I'm in a cube is immaterial


But before this thread goes viral- I think we should go ahead and kick it off with the proper video for ya



&ob=av2e

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 02:24 PM

9. I suppose the one who could call it a career is the

Duggar woman who gave birth to 19 children.

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Response to asjr (Reply #9)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 05:09 PM

46. Particularly NOT the Duggar woman, since she merely pops them out and her other kids care for them

She doesn't do much caretaking.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 02:25 PM

10. How can someone knows what goes on in China unless they live there

Or know how many gallons of gas an SUV uses if they don't own one.

Reading and research.

And yes, being a stay at home mom can be a career as you have to manage finances, schedule appointments, etc and so on - basically a small business owner who has to keep things running 24x7.

In her case - she probably had a lot of help. My daughter-in-law spent over 6 months alone taking care of three little kids while my son was in Iraq and she had to manage everything to a T, from meal plannings, finances, etc.

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Response to The Straight Story (Reply #10)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 05:22 PM

57. If "stay-at-home mom" is a career, what about a "stay-at-home wife?" Is that a career if you take

care of finances, cleaning, cooking, taking care of your husband and the laundry, etc.? No kids, but you're still doing a million other things. What about other stay-at-home family positions? A "stay-at-home grandma" can also be a career then, or a "stay-at-home grandpa."

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 02:25 PM

11. I did both

SAHM until kindly, then a working mom. Both were very challenging but if you haven't done one then you really don't get it completely. I think she shouldn't comment on the challenges of being a working mom.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 02:26 PM

12. It's the hardest job in the world, but it's not a career. I decided not to have kids because it's

SO demanding, and life is so complicated. But no, stay at home mom is not a career because when employees are sought, it's not something that will be considered in a resume or an interview. In fact, it might even be considered a hindrance, or time lost. nt

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #12)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 03:27 PM

29. But if you list housekeeper, nanny, personal assistant and communty organizer

you get credit for having a wide range of skills and experience.

Of course it's a career.

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Response to EFerrari (Reply #29)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 04:53 PM

37. Yes. Cleaning houses, though, doesn't require a resume, and caring for children requires a degree

unless it's local babysitting and then you don't require a resume either.

It would be nice if those skills were resume-worthy. My sister, who spent decades caring for her own kids, cannot get a job with those skills. She's had to start getting a part-time job outside the home to get something to throw into a resume.

It's a whole story. She did homeschooling. Doing homeschooling is useless to get a teaching job. Caring for children proved useless for her in getting a job take care of kids in kid centers. I don't think she tried to get a job as a chef or nuthin' like that, but cooking for her family for decades cannot be used as a resume to get a position as a chef.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #37)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 05:04 PM

42. I know college instructors in the same boat.

The job market is a different wrinkle, imo.

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Response to EFerrari (Reply #42)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 05:17 PM

54. College instructors have a degree, I suppose, and (one imagines) resume-worthy experience nt

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #12)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 05:24 PM

59. 4 loads of laundry a week and cooking

 

add a 40+ hour a week job on top of that...shit, I'd quit and stay at home in half of a second....

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Response to blueamy66 (Reply #59)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 05:29 PM

62. Of course! Doing 2 jobs is just hard. Too hard. nt

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 02:26 PM

13. True but Hillary Rosen should have been clear

She should have said stay at home women do work but are not in the employment sphere so Ann Rmoney has no clue about the working world. Further in her bubble full of nannies, maids etc she has no understanding of the life of the average woman.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 02:29 PM

15. If it is, then how do you climb the career ladder?

That is, how are you promoted and what's the retirement program like?

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 02:30 PM

16. definition

ca·reer
    Show IPA
noun
1.
an occupation or profession, especially one requiring special training, followed as one's lifework: He sought a career as a lawyer.
2.
a person's progress or general course of action through life or through a phase of life, as in some profession or undertaking: His career as a soldier ended with the armistice.
3.
success in a profession, occupation, etc.
4.
a course, especially a swift one.
5.
speed, especially full speed: The horse stumbled in full career.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 02:31 PM

17. It's a bit of a "dead end" career

unlikely to ever get a promotion, more likley to work yourself out of the job.

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Response to Sheepshank (Reply #17)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 05:06 PM

43. Kinda like "wife" or "husband," which have duties you can't use on a resume. They're important,

sure, but they're not things you can use on a resume, or mention in an interview for a job as experience that will help carry out a job outside the home. (Unless you're being hired to be a pretend-wife or a pretend-husband). lol

Same thing with "stay-at-home mom." VERY important duties, very important role, but you sure can't use it on a resume, or discuss it as part of your life experience which will help you carry out a job in the outside world.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 02:35 PM

18. Do we really want to attack stay at home mothers?

Do we really want to tell them they haven't worked a day in their lives? If this was a GOP quote it would be smashed on DU. Sorry I'm not a hypocrite that defends any dumb thing a Dem says. Even Michell Obama said today that all women work. Is she the next to be attacked?

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Response to former9thward (Reply #18)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 03:08 PM

26. Nobody is attacking stay at home Mothers...

Not here at least.

I think it would be tough for a Mom or Dad who never worked a job with a W-2 attached---to comment accurately on what goes on in the workplace.

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Response to trumad (Reply #26)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 03:25 PM

28. Except that is not what the quote was.

It was "She has never worked a day in her life". It is ridiculous to suggest that a women who has MS and breast cancer and raised five sons "has never worked a day in her life". Rosen just apologized to Ann Romney so she saw how foolish her statement was.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57413216-503544/hilary-rosen-apologizes-to-ann-romney-for-poorly-chosen-words/

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Response to former9thward (Reply #18)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 05:00 PM

40. No one is attacking stay-at-home mothers. I have LOTS of experience as a wife but is that resume-

worthy material? What would I put down as wifely duties that I could throw into my resume? Note: I've been married several times, so I have lots of experience.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #40)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 07:32 PM

75. No one was talking about resumes.

The statement was: She has not worked a day in her life. Rosen has apologized as she should have. It was a dumb statement.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #75)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 11:25 PM

99. It really wasn't a dumb statement. Republican shitheads know damned well what work is

and if Mrs. Romney has done 1 minute of work in her entire Ferrari life, I swear to God I'll cook flan de coco for that plastic, surgically altered, bleached, fake extensioned blonde.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #75)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 09:56 AM

120. If you consider familial duties a job, then every single thing in life is a job, no holds barred.nt

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #120)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 10:41 AM

123. You are changing the quote.

The quote was "She has never worked a day in her life". Nothing was said about a job. President Obama was right to condemn the statement.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #123)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 10:52 AM

124. I didn't ignore the quote. She has never worked a job. Family tasks are not "work."

My mom and dad never considered taking care of me, "work." It was being a mom and dad.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #124)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 10:58 AM

125. Not only does President Obama strongly disagree with you

but 99% of the population does too. That is why every elected Democrat threw Rosen overboard as soon as they heard the quote.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #125)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 05:11 PM

132. Obama is a gentle soul that often prefers to take the Gandhi way out of issues

I'm not. I say it as I see it.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #132)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 05:23 PM

134. Please define "work"

It appears you are defining work as an exchange of labor for financial compensation. Clearly this is flat out WRONG, but I see no other made up explanation you could be using.

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Response to joeglow3 (Reply #134)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 11:44 PM

141. CERTAINLY NOT what we do normally for our relatives! nt

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #141)

Mon Apr 16, 2012, 09:24 AM

142. So, you make up your own definitions and then argue that THAT is correct

Good to know...

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Response to joeglow3 (Reply #142)

Mon Apr 16, 2012, 07:40 PM

143. What do you mean? I said that relationships are not a job.

And they're not. It's fucked up beyond all recognition to consider the duties involved in maintaining relationships, father, mother, sister, brother, cousin, etc., to be jobs.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #143)

Tue Apr 17, 2012, 11:39 AM

144. You are trying to interpret what was said

She said Ann had never "worked a day in her life." She did NOT say Ann had "never worked at a job in her life."

I "work" around the house all the time. We are buying a house and we are already planning what "work" we are going to do: replace the roof, fix the deck, replace all the woodwork in the bedrooms, etc. I agree that what you are saying is what was intended to be communicated. However, we got our dicks handed to us because someone who is supposed to be a political expert failed miserably at her job. To me, the bigger issue is how someone makes a living in this arena and did not see the idiocy of her comment. I saw it "live" and cringed as soon as she said it.

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Response to joeglow3 (Reply #144)

Tue Apr 17, 2012, 03:07 PM

146. The semantics games are what really, really, really anger me most of all. This is a great example

of yet another bullshit semantics game.

We KNOW what she meant. I can't even TELL YOU how it angers me when bullshit is started based on semantics, for the purpose of creating a ruckus. "Oh you left one little word out!" Well, fiddledeedee! This sounds like the arguments I had with my right wing extremist boyfriend, who, by the way, is out of the picture for stupid shit like this.

We KNOW what she meant, the right wingnut a-holes know what she meant, everyone knows full well what she meant. What I really do not understand is true Democrats siding with the right wing assholes on this bullshit.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 02:35 PM

19. Of course it is. Just because you weren't paid for it doesn't make it any less a career choice

because people who do get paid for it, like housekeepers and nannies, consider it a profession. Just because a job is a service job that doesn't require a lot of higher education, doesn't mean it isn't important and necessary.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #19)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 03:00 PM

23. well said

you make a great point.

If a lawyer works pro-bono, or an MD gives free care, are they any less valuable?

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Response to Cleita (Reply #19)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 05:16 PM

52. If I were a stay at home mom, I'd be insulted.

My mother did not work when she had kids but to say what she did at home was her "profession" would be wrong. She took care of us and our house. Before that she worked for the Department of Defense. To suggest this is a career choice minimizes women.

I'm not saying someone's choice not to hold a job when there are kids at home is a bad thing. I just don't think women should have to justify a normal life situation and reasonable decision by elevating it as a "career choice."

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Response to Iris (Reply #52)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 07:22 PM

73. But, isn't raising children the most important thing a woman has to do?

I know people don't want Ann Romney to become a noble martyr in this but be sensible. I'm sure she hires people to do the stuff all other stay at home moms do, so I don't consider her as having a profession. However, demeaning anyone who does housework and child rearing, making it look like it's not worthy of being called work or a profession, is disingenuous at best.

Before modern times, when we became so compartmentalized in where we spent our time working, women took their children into the fields with them to watch over them. While they did their spinning, weaving and cooking, the children played around them. Yet, their work was valued, not demeaned like it is today.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #73)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 08:09 PM

80. No

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Response to Iris (Reply #80)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 08:12 PM

81. So what is it in your mind?

I don't have children myself, but I am daunted all the time about what mothers, well good mothers, responsibilities are in nurturing a human life that could die from neglect or bad choices. It's not like you can make a mistake, erase it and go back to the drawing board. I really can't think of anything more important and more stressful. What do you think is even more important to spend your time on 24/7?

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Response to Cleita (Reply #81)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 08:17 PM

82. Parents make mistakes all the time.

Why elevate what is part of normal life into something almost beatific? People have kids. They don't become perfect because they have kids. They do the best they can and go on with their lives.

I would not say being a mom is more important than curing cancer or fighting hunger or being a business person who creates a humane work environment for employees. To elevate being a mother to a level above everything else human beings do allows women to focus so much on their children that they neglect the rest of the world and that has dire consequences. Not to mention how it jeoporadizes women who have something to contribute to society to suggest that their time is BEST spent being a mother (which physically would only go on for maybe 1/3 of a woman's life.)

And I really don't want people who don't even know me judging how I spend my time 24/7.

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Response to Iris (Reply #82)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 08:23 PM

87. I did office work and often made mistakes, but my mistakes were fixable.

Although I had a career as an underpaid girl Friday, it hardly was the same. I left the job at 5:00 PM until the next morning. Mothers can't do that, nor fathers for that matter. Curing cancer and trying the make the world a better place as a business person is something people do on the job if they are inclined to do it. They still go home at the end of the day. A parent must be on the job all the time or their product will either not survive or turn out badly.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #87)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 08:29 PM

89. Children are resilient.

Why would you think parents don't make mistakes? They do. All the time. It's not always a death sentence.

Jeez. Lighten up.

You not only insult women but also people who grew up under less than ideal circumstances and turned out just fine.

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Response to Iris (Reply #89)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 08:33 PM

91. You are just being ridiculous.

Child care is hard. Ask any parent. Sure a lot of kids survive bad parenting but it doesn't make it any less important. But go on just say it's insulting to point out that childcare is one of the most important things anyone can do in their lives. You are the one who is insulting all the parents who have put their time and self-sacrifice into raising the next generation to be good citizens.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #91)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 07:42 PM

138. I am not being ridiculous.

You are turning motherhood (although you've switched to parenthood now) into something that it's not. You are elevating it to a level that no human being can achieve and your belief that all (good) parents are self-sacrificing all the time is really, really naive.

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Response to Iris (Reply #138)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 07:52 PM

139. No wonder there are so many neglected and screwed up kids in the

world if people have an it's no big deal attitude. What's bad is when pets get better treatment and affection than a lot of kids. Yes, I switched to parenthood because men should have a stake in helping raise their children, however, in my experience it's the woman who ends up with the major responsibility in that chore.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #87)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 03:18 AM

107. Exactly. When parents don't do their jobs lives are ruined. n/t

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Response to Cleita (Reply #81)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 05:10 AM

115. So, if raising children is the most important thing women do, what about you and me?

I don't have children either. I don't think you meant that raising children is the most important thing women do, since not all women have children, which would mean those women have nothing important to do or add to the world. It is more accurate to say that raising children is an important thing that women who have children do.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #19)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 05:18 PM

55. But I'm wondering... if "being a mom" is a career, is "being a husband" a career? Is "being a wife"

a career? What about "being a sister" or "being a cousin?"

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #55)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 07:16 PM

72. If your sister or cousin comes by and cooks, cleans and does child care for you, yes

it's a job even if they don't get paid for their services.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #72)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 08:23 PM

85. Doing something to make money and a career are different

I don't think the woman who cleans my home thinks it's a career. I think she considers it a way to make money.

Not only that, but you compromise your argument here because a good many SAHMs do something to bring some money into the home at least at some point, whether it's sell tupperware, sell stuff on Ebay, write for a blog that sells advertising, or babysit for a neighbor's kids. And most mothers end up actually working outside of the home at some point as well.

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Response to Iris (Reply #85)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 08:29 PM

90. Housekeeping actually is a career.

Just because she cleans your house doesn't mean she doesn't aspire to something better, like being the head housekeeper for a hotel or other institution. I have friends who actually made good money doing housework if they found the right employer or list of clients. A couple that were friends of mine and of my husband, worked as a couple for very rich people in housekeeper and butler positions. The were very skilled, gourmet cooks, able to make sure everything sparkled and that the flowers were arranged just right. They knew how to help entertain, dinner parties and so on. They were very well paid for their work, which was a career. Not everyone, who thinks they can cook and do housework can do what they did, anymore than the ordinary person who knows his or her way around a kitchen can be a chef.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #72)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 11:26 PM

100. So only children can turn family duties into an official job? nt

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #100)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 11:30 PM

101. You don't make sense. Please explain. n/t

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Response to Cleita (Reply #101)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 09:54 AM

118. Being a mom, dad, sister, brother, cousin, aunt, uncle, grandma are not careers. nt

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Response to Cleita (Reply #72)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 09:55 AM

119. Uh... hell no. I've taken care of my family members and haven't charged one penny. That's love

not career.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #19)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 10:56 PM

98. Well said! /nt

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 02:38 PM

20. As a father, here's my answer

 

I have a day job, and so does my wife. When she's off she takes care of our baby, and when I'm off I take care of him. Other times our relatives and friends babysit for us.

I can tell you that at the end of the day, after being with my son, I'm more exhausted mentally and physically than I am in my regular job, which entails housekeeping in a printing shop. Stay-home mom have very hard task in her hands, and I admire all mothers, especially single moms.

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Response to Justice4allofus (Reply #20)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 03:31 PM

31. I had a friend, who was a single mother, who said the same thing.

She said she looked forward to work because then she could relax, while the babysitter took over.

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Response to Justice4allofus (Reply #20)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 05:55 PM

68. Unless you're home-schooling or having a clown-car full of kids, it's not a long term career.

Once the little blighters are in school, it's
time to get a job.

IMO

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 02:43 PM

21. Yes it is. nt

 

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 03:01 PM

24. i started working at 12. stopped at 33. stay at home is not a career. a career killer.

Last edited Fri Apr 13, 2012, 05:21 PM - Edit history (1)

if i had never worked in the business world and was just a stay at home, i would not have the same knowledge. i love that i stayed at home, raising kids. we did what our family needed to do and thankfully, have been able to do it. works for all four of us. but now, looking at going back to work in a couple years (youngest son not going to be home alone), i dont see it working well. cant figure out how it is going to be a real advantage in our family.

but no, i would not place this woman as getting the business world, working while raising kids, or working in a work environment.

in NO way am i saying that what this woman is doing or has done is any less.... any less of a challenge or of value, than the person that works.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #24)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 05:03 PM

41. I do have to agree. I have lots of experience as a wife, but I can't put that on a resume.

Being a mom, like being a wife, or being a daughter, or being a son, or being a grandpa, etc., can't be used on a resume.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 03:03 PM

25. Ludicrous to claim that Ms Romney has anything in common

with the challenges of parenthood faced by the other 99%. My Mother was one of the 99%, well actually down towards the bottom, coming from a depression era household of six kids and no father (died in an industrial accident when Mom was eight).

She chose parenthood and home as a career, when she had the potential to do anything. She was incredibly sharp and a brilliant writer, but confined her writing to everyday prose, recipes, birthday cards, family letters.

I'm not nominating her for sainthood; like any kid I disagreed with her here and there; point is, she chose to stay home and take care of and raise her family in what eventually became a middle class family, and her experiences are not comparable to Ann Romney's at all.

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Response to Permanut (Reply #25)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 03:09 PM

27. Mitt has made her the expert in his campaign about job equality and pay...

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Response to trumad (Reply #27)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 05:10 PM

47. That's F absurd nt

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Response to Permanut (Reply #25)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 05:08 PM

45. She's a rich woman, she's a rich daughter, a rich wife, a rich granddaughter, a rich mom, a rich

wife, a rich cousin, a rich sister, a rich everything.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 03:28 PM

30. Yes I would say that.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 03:51 PM

32. I am a stay at home Dad. It is an honor, a sacrifice, an investment, and a luxury; but not a career.

I would consider a career, doing something you love and getting paid for it.

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Response to MatthewStLouis (Reply #32)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 05:19 PM

56. And a career generally lasts a lifetime.

My mom is still my mom even though I'm an adult and she went on to have other jobs, but her work with me was, for all practical purposes, done by the time I was 18. (And she'd probably say much younger as she considered us to have the values she wanted to instill in us by the time we were 14 or 15 and allowed us to make most of our own decisions from that point on.)

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Response to MatthewStLouis (Reply #32)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 05:27 PM

61. Doing anything for family is always an honor, a sacrifice, and pretty cool. I love being an aunt to

my nieces and nephews. I still don't think family relationships are equivalent to career experience and things one can add to a resume and discuss in an interview.

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Response to MatthewStLouis (Reply #32)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 05:24 PM

135. Agreed. Too bad the quote was not that she has never had a career

Words have meanings and you are confusing "career" with "work." They have very different meanings and by chosing the word "work," her comment was extremely insulting.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 04:09 PM

33. Ann Romney was not a typical stay at home Mom.

I have done it all. I worked (without kids), stayed at home with my two daughters until they were in elementary school (while going back to school) and have worked while having my kids. All were tough and all of it was tiring. Ann Romney never had to worry about not having a lot of money without her working. She lived in a big house with plenty of money. You cannot compare her to a typical stay at home Mom. Which is why I don't get why Hilary Rosen even went there. Is it a career staying home? Perhaps not a career but it is something that Moms should not have to feel guilty about or looked down on about. It is 2012. Women should have any option on the plate on how to live their lives.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 04:18 PM

34. Ann Romney was born in 1949.

Her first child was born in 1970. The last was born in 1981. She completed the college degree which she began in 1969 in 1975.

Her youngest became an adult in 1999.

If we accept the premise that "parenting is hard work", her last day on the job was 14 years ago. Can you still call yourself a stay at home parent when your kids moved out decades ago?

Calling her out is fine with me too.

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #34)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 11:55 PM

104. wiki says she was largely invisible as a governor's wife

Seems like she had a lot of time on her hands. No volunteer work? No interests? What hass she been up to for 14 years? Shopping at Nordstroms?

Riding her thoroughbred horses? In point of fact lots of nothing. Rich, pampered and bland.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 04:39 PM

35. It's certainly not a career in the traditional sense of that word.

It's a job. It's a 24 hour a day job. It involves all sorts of skills and a lot of flexibility. You have to be pretty good at managing your time.

I stayed home the entire time my two sons were growing up. We were not rich, just decided to make do with less. Plus, since I did not have education and training for anything other than entry-level work, when the boys were very young it probably would have cost as much money as I could make to have them in day care.

Here's something else I honestly don't get: a lot of women who have stayed home for some length of time with children, say they were bored and unstimulated. I never felt that way. I had no problem connecting with adults as I needed to. I read books, discussed ideas with my husband, never lost sight of myself. Now, granted, I never had a job that I just loved, never had a promotion of any kind, never had a career, just a few jobs in the years before I finally married at age 32. But every day with a baby, toddler, child, was different and interesting.

I also, once the youngest was about four, returned to school part time and started taking classes I wanted to take.

I saw the immense struggles of working mothers, especially single mothers, and absolutely wanted no part of that. What made me crazy then, makes me crazy now, is the extent to which the world of work is totally incompatible with the world of having a family. THAT'S what needs to change.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 04:40 PM

36. I can ...

so phuck off.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 04:55 PM

38. What is wrong with being a stay-at-home mom

if the husband is wealthy enough so the wife does not have to work?

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Response to RebelOne (Reply #38)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 05:07 PM

44. What's wrong with it? Nothing, but the discussion is not about that. lol nt

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Response to RebelOne (Reply #38)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 05:15 PM

51. Not a thing. What's wrong is how Ann is defining it -

and not understanding that most of us don't have a choice. She lives in a 1% bubble and is not capable of understanding. Women don't like Mitt and Ann is making it worse.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 05:11 PM

48. No. It's a job. But not a career.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 05:12 PM

49. Depends upon the situation

I had a career and then "retired" at 40 to take care of my kids. That so-called "retirement" will only last if my spouse continues in his job of course, and we aren't out there driving two brand new Mercedez SUVs. Many couples do that - one works and one stays home (and in this day and age many are doing that whether they want to or not depending upon which can find a job first).

It's really different from being in an office - especially fast paced jobs in large cities. It's pretty nice to have windows everywhere and not have to ask to go to the bathroom. It's also more work than you'd think to pick up after kids (especially if you have disabled kids), feed them, clean up after them, taxi them around, take care of the pets, etc... but that also depends upon how much help you have. If you are Ann Romney and can hire all the housekeeping, nannies, and other helpers you need it becomes much less work.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 05:16 PM

53. I believe it can be one of the most grueling jobs in my estimation

With several children I admire and respect my wife staying home the first few years to raise them. On days I didn't work, she let me handle the ship and I need a vacation by going to work the next day.

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Response to Broderick (Reply #53)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 05:26 PM

60. then maybe you need to "rethink" how you are raising your kids

 

really? a few kids at home vs. a 40+ hour a week job.....I'll stay at home and nap, thanks

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Response to blueamy66 (Reply #60)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 05:57 PM

70. Naps with 3 and 4 year olds

good luck. LOL.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 05:22 PM

58. No, it's not a career....

 

it's a dream.....

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 05:31 PM

63. I was a stay-at-hone mom for 3 years when my children were young.

My husband was not bringing in enough money to support us, so I found a job. He felt threatened because he thought I was becoming self-sufficient, which was true, and it led to the breakup of our marriage.

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Response to RebelOne (Reply #63)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 07:53 PM

78. Webster: "Career" (n)...

 

Career (n): a field for or pursuit of consecutive progressive achievement especially in public, professional, or business life.

In the occupational sense of the word... no, stay at home mom/dad is not a career.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 05:35 PM

64. Yeah, I think it is.

I had the experience of being a "stay at home" father with both of my sons. (I was making some money from home, though.) Like you say, it is real work.

And not just the changing diapers, cleaning, and cooking. Once your children are toddlers, you have a role as a teacher. I didn't waste time on flash cards, or trying to prepare to enter 6th grade at the age of five. But teaching them exactly what they were interested in.

I'm not comparing it to the factory work, farm labor, cutting trees, stone-masonry, or the social work I did at other times. So while not a "career" in that exact context, a career.

This in no manner is intended to pretend Ann Romney did any work, at any time.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 05:38 PM

65. All I know is that this should be handled very delicately.

Very delicately indeed. There are valid arguments on both sides and it is a worthy discussion. Just remember that there are DUers who sacrifice to stay at home to raise their families. They are very well educated. Many also work from home to earn money in addition to raising their children and running the household in the most economic and healthy way possible.

There are so many ways to do this these days, so that it really can be a career choice. I hope people keep this in mind as they discuss the topic.

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #65)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 05:45 PM

67. I really did try and word my OP with that in mind.

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Response to trumad (Reply #67)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 08:23 PM

86. I think you did a good job of it.

That's why I addressed my comment to you, as just sort of a general remark. I know you get it. I didn't want to get in an argument with any particular person in the thread. Just wanted to make the statement.

Mrs Romney doesn't fall into the category you and I are talking about here, of course, though I doubt she understands that any more than her husband understands what the working men and women go through, much less those who are unable to find work.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 05:39 PM

66. It is a job and there is a difference

Moms do not compete for promotions. There is no glass ceiling to contend with. Moms are very rarely laid off. Mom's jobs are rarely outsourced to China or Mexico.

It can however be hard work and is due a level of respect.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 05:56 PM

69. The Kennedys are (were) wealthy

Extremely. No one ever brought up whether or not Jackie or Ethel or any of them had worked outside the home. The difference is that the Kennedys always cared about, and fought hard for, minorities, the downtrodden, the poor. They also rode horses, raced boats, had servants ... but I don't think we resented them, at least not most of us. Because they CARED about us, through words and deeds and legislation - they fought for us.

I don't care whether or not Ann Romney had a career. I care that she and her rich husband could give a shit about the vast majority of us. Her not "working" is simply a metaphor.

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Response to lillypaddle (Reply #69)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 03:22 AM

108. Lillypaddle, I've been posting much the same. You nailed it.

But there are 'Drms' here who will bash women if they are the wrong side.

I'm recalling why Hillary Clinton's supporters were so angry back in 2007.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 06:08 PM

71. No.

It can be very hard work - or very easy work if you don't give a damn - but it isn't a job or a career.

You aren't hired for your ability to do the work, or your experience, or your education; your 'salary' isn't based on your own skills, but instead on the skills of your spouse to earn money; you are not required to develop many of the skills that are necessary for many jobs.

In short, women who do not have jobs/careers do not have the personal experience to discuss the subject in the way that Romney attributes to his wife.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 07:25 PM

74. I can't believe all the feminists on this board, suddenly don't think the work that

Last edited Thu Apr 12, 2012, 08:13 PM - Edit history (1)

stay-at-home women do has any value. Also, as usual, what Ms. Rosen said about Ann Romney was taken our of context and what she said was basically, that Mrs. Romney had a very rich husband and didn't have to go to work.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #74)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 05:13 AM

116. Working women work, even if that work is housework and child care

But taking care of your own house and offspring - though hard work - isn't a career in the usual sense of the word.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 07:36 PM

77. If it is, then Octomom should be the CEO. n/t

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 07:57 PM

79. Career, no.

However, it does take the same time and effort as a job.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 08:17 PM

83. Um, helloooo!! Is household cook or faithful family retainer a full time job?

Cause a mom is basically BOTH JOBS rolled into one... only she doesn't get paid for it and has to do it all in high heels, while wearing pearls and getting blitzed out on cooking sherry and Nembutal all afternoon! Mister, I call that a fucking job!

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 08:20 PM

84. Yes...Indeed I think it's a Career!

Maybe not for you as a "Stay at Home Dad" who got bored.

But...as a person who has worked on and off in career...raising children is the most important work one can do in one's life. If one keeps a perspective and ingratiates one's career choice into something that works with one's family life.

That's a tough row to hoe...and not many can do it well...but we should try, IMHO.

So...WHY are you so against it?

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 08:24 PM

88. Mrs. Romney (and make no mistake - her only identity is as Mitt's wife)

Has never has to worry about anything or make difficult decisions about the needs of her family ever in her entire life.

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Response to baldguy (Reply #88)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 09:24 PM

94. It was "Her Choice" in the time frame of the beliefs she grew up with as Mormon and

"woman of her era," though, I believe. I would not condemn her for this. It was her chosen career and I would no more diss her for this than I would folks who made other choices.

SHE is not the issue. It's her husband who seems to lack a moral compass about what this country needs at this point to help it's people.

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Response to KoKo (Reply #94)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 09:33 PM

96. There are millions of women who made the same choice - but didn't have the luxury of being rich

They had to make difficult decisions for their family, forced to make real sacrifices & faced real hardships that the Romneys would never need to worry about in a million years.

And there's millions more women who didn't even have that opportunity.

The Romneys are the epitome of elitist scum.

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Response to baldguy (Reply #96)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 10:04 PM

97. Her Husband is the one running for President. I will not condemn her for her

choices for her time or any time to do what she did, though.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 08:36 PM

92. I don't

any more than I would consider any of the individual job duties involved to be a career, if performed as part of a paying job.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 09:25 PM

95. Boy, is this ever a lose lose argument.

 

So glad Obama is wise enough to keep away.

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Response to Zax2me (Reply #95)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 03:23 AM

109. Is he?

He started it last week.

I think it was part of the strategy.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 11:44 PM

103. I think it's a lot of work. A lot of jobs we have are not necessarily careers, but they are jobs

and fulltime parenting a very time consuming job (assuming you don't have maids, nannies and drivers)

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 12:31 AM

105. Taking care of my autistic child and my toddler is indeed work.

Running to therapies, coordinating with doctors, managing medications and meltdowns and coordinating playdates and playgroups (all autism playdates and playgroups, meant to teach social skills), constantly having to stay on top of your kid so that he doesn't harm your other kid or the cat or the dog or YOU....yeah, I definitely consider this gig a full time job.

I work as a nurse on the weekends. Even my busiest days at work are easier in a lot of respects than my regular days at home. I chose to stay home with my children after my first child was born and it was obvious that he wouldn't do well in daycare. That turned out to be a wise decision, as his first diagnosis came at 13 months of age. Our income took a hit, but we got no subsidies or SSI or medicaid or any of that stuff, because the hit wasn't big enough. We still spent 11k out of pocket the first year of his diagnosis. 6k of that happened in one day.

Raising a special needs child is a full time job and then some, and it is 'round the clock, 24/7 (especially when your child doesn't sleep, something that happens frequently with autism). Being a nurse at least can have some down time when census is low, and has a definite start/finish time. I clock in, I clock out, and someone steps in to take my place. I am officially off the hook. With my kids, it's not like that. I'm always 'on the clock,' even after they're asleep, because one of them wakes up in the middle of the night, every night. I haven't slept through the night in 8 years.

So yeah, I consider it a career, and double dog dare anyone who thinks all I do is sit around and nap and eat bon bons all day to come do my "easy job" for a week. Just my $0.02.

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Response to Butterbean (Reply #105)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 01:31 AM

106. Welcome to DU!

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Response to Butterbean (Reply #105)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 03:24 AM

110. Butterbean we're not all stupid.

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Response to Butterbean (Reply #105)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 04:00 AM

113. I totally agree with you. Motherhood is a career choice. What you do is a full time plus plus job.

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Response to Butterbean (Reply #105)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 10:00 AM

121. This autistic guy says welcome to DU!

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #121)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 06:48 PM

137. Hey there, Odin. :) Nice to meet you.

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Response to Butterbean (Reply #137)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 08:06 PM

140. Thanks!

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 03:41 AM

111. no

if you had a job before staying at home, your official title would be "unemployed".

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 03:57 AM

112. This is such a nontroversy.

The woman has no idea how hard it is to do without help. Like I really believe she did it without nannies and cooks and maids? Um, no.

Other than the fact that Mitt needs to stop throwing the woman out there like she's some "everyday, connect with the little people woman", I think this is really a non issue.

I respect her choices and I respect Michelle Obama's choices. I don't judge other women for what they choose to do. But I do love me some Michelle. I love that she is educated, well spoken, and love seeing photos of the whole family.

What do I love most about Michelle? I just know that she is behind the scenes saying, "Honey, you need to step up to the plate and make sure you take care of women's healthcare and I don't care what those old men in robes are saying!" I somehow don't see Mitt's wife doing that. I could be wrong, though.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 04:17 AM

114. Mrs. Romney is out of touch.

She has had the luxury of being a wealthy stay-at-home mom. She's a complete and total anomaly in modern day America.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 10:14 AM

122. Yes, and fuck those who under value it-

Taking on the responsibility of forming young minds in a direction
that is positive and likely to contribute to the greater good of society
if perhaps the most important career anyone is ever given.

Mothers, caregivers and guardians who sacrifice their own ambitions
to further those under their care are among the most important
and under valued workers in the country.

BHN

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 10:59 AM

126. YES

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 11:01 AM

127. I think attacking women's choices is a dead end. A toxic line of debate. nt

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 11:02 AM

128. Yes!

Parenting and running a household is a JOB!

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 11:03 AM

129. I guess I'm working two jobs, then

I have a full-time job (plus), but I also end up doing most of the work around the house that needs to be done.

One's a career, the other's a responsibility...a duty, I'd call it.

But not a job or a career.

If only I got paid decently for both....

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Tue Apr 17, 2012, 11:45 AM

145. Not in a capitalist dominated society

For a capitalist society, career = money.

But the original meaning of career was "course or progress through life." It didn't use to be all about the almighty dollar.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Tue Apr 17, 2012, 03:29 PM

147. Please Note, I am taling tongue in cheek

Well, think of it this way, it is to Mrs. Romney a Managerial career path.

Basically, as a Housewife to an extremely wealthy individual took some effort to apply to. Who knows how many trips to parlors, stores and boutiques she had to go through just to show her assets and put her best foot forwards.

Secondly, acquiring that career, she has become a manager to her house affairs. As such, like many in upper management, she has been able to figure out ways to bilk her helpers from as much wages, benefits and so forth as she could to her own personal benefit.

Thirdly, she has to figure out how to get the funds for capital improvements and had to come up with ideas to improve husbandly experience.

Fourthly, as she does consider it a career, to advance in such a field, she must either a) figure out means to improve her husband's station in life i.e the Presidency, b) find a better more successful husband.

((Ok, I feel disgusted just thinking of that))

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