What event led to the creation of ISIS?

[kentuck]

Was it the dismantling of the Iraqi Army by Paul Bremer and the American occupation forces?

Was it the election of Maliki and the Shia government, with close ties to Iran?

Was it the civil war in Syria and the atrocities committed by Assad?

Was it the premature withdrawal of American forces by Barack Obama in 2011?

Or was it the invasion of Iraq by George W Bush and Dick Cheney in 2003?

Was it not the invasion by the Bush regime that was the primary cause of all of the above? And are we not seeing the results of that disastrous decision by Bush and Cheney to invade Iraq?

Why cannot the Democrats discuss "primary cause"??

[TexasProgresive]

1. You got it

It was "shock and awe."

[TwilightGardener]

2. I don't think withdrawing troops after 8 years is "premature". Keeping them there

as occupiers would have made them constant suicide bombing targets, and would now be drawing us back in to a ground campaign as a tripwire, with Sunnis and Shia at each other's throats. That said, it was the destabilization of Iraq, the pissed-off Sunnis who want power and revenge in response to the power and revenge the Shia now exact upon them, and the Syrian civil war that gave them a place to congregate unmolested.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

3. Yet the bosses seem determined to repeat the same mistakes and lose another war.

[Agschmid]

4. I'm not convinced anyone could give you a definitive answer.

[Skink]

5. WW1

[oldandhappy]

6. I went to a lecture yesterday

that talked about this topic. The history of dysfunctional groups in the area goes back thousands of years. The British stirred things around a lot in the earlier part of the 1900's and now we are doing our part. The Kurds are actually the largest population in the area and the only significant group without their own country. The speaker had a few choice comments re Bush/Cheney. He showed lots of quotes from military folk testifying before Congress saying it was pointless to keep putting people into the area. Your questions are all very current. The history goes back, way back. I got the impression there is not a lot anyone can do. The Arabs have to do this. The speaker stressed over an over again that we have no idea of culture and history in the area and this means we take our plans in and never will that work. Sorry!

[kentuck]

7. Did the speaker believe that ISIS would exist today...?

...even if Bush had not invaded in 2003?

Of course, the problems in the area have been there since before WWI but the question is would it have disintegrated regardless of what we did in 2003?

[oldandhappy]

8. No invasion, no ISIS

But there might have been something else. No invasion means nothing would have stirred things up. The stir up, the scramble led to ISIS. But the situation prior to invasion was not good.

[kentuck]

9. Not good...

...but stable? At least, moreso than the present?

[oldandhappy]

13. Yes, I guess.

I got the feeling the area was sort of under control, but hot. I was not thinking along these lines as I was listening. I was fascinated with the history, the arbitrary way the lines were drawn to form nations -- not sensible, the tribal aspect of relations between people groups. I'll look up the name of the guy and see if I can find anything he might have on line.

[kentuck]

14. The movie, Lawrence of Arabia", offers a good perspective...

of the warring tribes of that area and the beginning of British involvement.

[oldandhappy]

15. I have to do these one at a time because I do not know how to do multiple links

www.facebook.com/farouk.alnass

[oldandhappy]

16. ecdcweb.net/july-17th-meeting-farouk-al-nasser-ph-d

[oldandhappy]

17. www.eastcountymagazine.org/farouk-al

[kentuck]

10. These warmongers remind me of the old Pentecostal preacher....

... who picked up a rattlesnake during one of his services and was bitten on his hand. After a few day days, it had turned green and gangrene had set it.

When he went to the hospital to have his hand amputated, he could never admit that the reason his hand had gangrene was his handling of the rattlesnake.

That is what the embeciles Graham and McCain remind me of...

[SidDithers]

11. The Big Bang...nt

Sid

[kentuck]

12. Of course!

Why didn't anyone else think of that!?

[randome]

18. What event led Columbus to America? What event led to slavery?

[hr][font color="blue"][center]The night is always young. It's never too late.[/center][/font][hr]

[kentuck]

19. Adam bit the apple?

Doesn't help much in the present discussion.

[spanone]

20. when you invade a sovereign nation for no apparent reason, you piss the people off.

bu$h/cheney = war criminals

[Shankapotomus]

21. Without a doubt

The destabilizing of Iraq by George Bush and Dick Cheney.

It was not the withdrawal. The forces couldn't stay there forever. If 8 years, trillions of dollars and thousands of lives couldn't fix it, it was never going to be fixed once Bush and Cheney broke it. It was destined to fail the second we invaded.