Be Nice To Girls

[pamela]

Some Ravens' fans have found a cool way to wear their Ray Rice jerseys.



http://abc7news.com/304766/

I hope this catches on. Both the idea for using the jerseys and the sentiment.

[CTyankee]

1. Excellent!

I don't have a jersey but I get the vibe and it's good!

[pamela]

2. I really love it.

It almost makes me wish I had one to alter like that. My family is full of Ravens fans, maybe someone has one.

[shenmue]

3. Yes

[Liberal_in_LA]

4. cute.

[freshwest]

5. Good idea.

[sheshe2]

6. Kick!

[Jester Messiah]

7. I wish "being a gentleman" would come back as a thing.

It would solve a lot of problems if we men held ourselves to that standard again.

[F4lconF16]

8. "Being a gentleman" is benevolent sexism.

The concept of a "gentleman" refers to a man who acts chivalrously, courteously, or honorably. The last two are both good things, but it's the first that's the problem. Chivalry is sexist.

The idea of chivalry generally refers to a man acting politely and with respect towards women. While that might sound like a good thing, let's take a look at a few things that are considered "chivalrous". Paying for a dates dinner, opening doors for her, carrying things for a woman, giving up your seat on the bus--these are all nice things to do, but the issue is it enforces rigid gender roles. Men become the caretakers, the providers. They are expected to be strong and masculine. In doing so, they then relegate women to something less, similar to a child that needs caring for. They are expected to be feminine and somewhat helpless without a man. This is harmful to both genders.

Of course, some things are simply polite. I would open the door for anyone behind me, or give my seat up to anyone who appeared to need it more than I. The thing is, chivalry makes this a one way street. Women aren't expected to be chivalrous, and the implications of that result in harm. That's why I don't like the term "gentleman". It creates the idea that women should be treated differently; yes, with respect and politeness, but wouldn't the greater respect just be treating them like another person?

Also, a great article I read recently that has to do with this:
http://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/10/i-dont-want-my-preschooler-to-be-a-gentleman/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

[Jester Messiah]

9. Is that worse than what currently prevails?

I submit that it is not. And the concept of gentlemanliness could be expanded to simply being kind, polite, and respectful towards everyone, not just women. "After you good sir // no no I insist" is a trope that demonstrates what I mean here.

[F4lconF16]

19. It may not be

But I've found "It's better than the alternative" to be a poor argument in favor of anything. We can do better, and so we should. Encouraging mild forms of sexism in the hopes that worse sexism will disappear is unreliable, at best. It also ingrains that mild sexism even more.

As for expanding the word gentleman to mean more than it does now, I have to say that reclaiming words doesn't usually work. Many are trying to reclaim and change the attitudes behind the words "bitch", and "slut", and to be honest, I both disagree with and find those attempts to have failed. Though gentleman is a term that is not used as a deragatory word, it is still sexist in many ways, and some of that original meaning will remain no matter how much the definition changes.

I think we both agree that that being a "gentleman" in the non-sexist sense is a good thing. Politeness and kindness towards others is very much something to aspire to. I think we just disagree on how to get there.

[Threedifferentones]

10. Exactly Falcon...

Feminism for many of us is as much about equality as it is about protecting women. How is being nice to girls equal? The implication is that one need not be so nice to boys, which is exactly what the term benevolent sexism was invented to describe.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

11. Why does this same silly argument keep on getting recycled every so often?

Yes, I hold the door for women. But I also hold the door for men, as well.

It's called being polite.

[Puzzledtraveller]

15. I decided on this, some people just enjoy being pissed off all the time.

I know what you mean, I was raised to be like that towards everyone.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

18. I don't understand why people don't get you can be a gentlemen towards men as well as women.

Being a gentlemen doesn't just mean you are considerate towards women. It means you are considerate towards everyone.

[F4lconF16]

22. That's where I disagree.

Being a gentleman means more than just being nice to everyone. It also has chivalrous attributes, which are really a perfect example of why the term benevolent sexism came about. Again, words have connotations that aren't always obvious at the surface. This is one of those times.

[F4lconF16]

20. I certainly didn't mean to imply that holding the door open is sexist.

My point was that benevolent sexism manifests itself in many ways. It's the attitude behind the opening of the door that matters, not the act itself. I think you have it figured out: it's called being polite. Unfortunately, not everyone opens doors the same way you do--some "gentleman" do it with a different intent, one that is absolutely benevolent sexism.

[Egnever]

34. .

[pscot]

39. This is why we can't have nice things

[snooper2]

12. OPEN THE DOOR FOR ME THREAD! We are overdue! Greatness!

LOL

[FrodosPet]

14. The key is - do you respect EVERYONE?

Personally, if I am the first to a door, I hold it open for everyone. If someone drops a package, and I can help, I will, regardless of what's between their legs. If someone looks tired and looks like they need the seat more than I do, yes I will give it to them, regardless of their chromosomes. Of course, I am getting to the age where people have given up their seats to me.

I am not going to start being a jerk to women to avoid being a benevolent chauvinist. And I will proudly carry the title "gentleman" - not because it is sexist, but because it denotes that I am trying to be a gentle man and not a rude, self absorbed schmuck.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

17. From now on, if I see a woman walking towards a closing door....

....I'm going to shut it, and then shout words of encouragement at her from the other side: "You are empowered! You are your own woman, who needs no help from but a man like me! Open that door! Open all the doors!"

[LisaLynne]

26. What an unhelpful comment. nt

[Egnever]

37. Yet it seems to nail what is being asked for

[F4lconF16]

21. "I am not going to start being a jerk to women

to avoid being a benevolent chauvinist."

I really hope that wasn't what you got out of my post.

"And I will proudly carry the title "gentleman" - not because it is sexist, but because it denotes that I am trying to be a gentle man and not a rude, self absorbed schmuck."

There's a difference between not being a rude, self absorbed schmuck and being a gentleman. You can be a good person without being a gentleman. I consider myself a fairly kind, polite, helpful person. I don't label myself as a being a gentleman because of all the linguistic baggage that comes with it. Words matter, as well as the intent behind them and their connotations.

[FrodosPet]

25. Then it is time to toss the linguistic baggage overboard

I'm sticking with gentleman as being an ideal model, regardless of the baggage of which you speak. It is simple, direct, and at the core, an honorable title.

[F4lconF16]

27. A question: would you use "gentleman" as a term to describe a woman?

Or gentlewoman, if you prefer.

I think if you're going to try to change the meaning, you need to either use the same term or an equivalent term to describe women with the same qualities you ascribe to a gentleman. If you can't, then you have to admit that perhaps you are still thinking of the terms in a benevolently sexist manner. And that's where I think it would be challenging to change the reception of the term, which is why I prefer just not to use it.

[Jester Messiah]

32. Well, the old greeting was "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Though I've also heard of "gentle-lady" being used. There were different virtues associated with being a lady than those of gentlemen, so "Lady" probably wouldn't do unless the connotations were updated for the modern day. Bottom line though, I think we'd all be better off if some sense of propriety and/or decorum came back into vogue.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

28. this is what needs to be said! bravo!

fencing over a damned word... jeez...

sP

[Jester Messiah]

33. Kudos to you, good sir.

I wish you good fortune in all your endeavors!

[Oktober]

35. Men and women are different...

... And any social system that tries to behave otherwise is doomed to failure.

[F4lconF16]

38. Blacks and whites are different...

... And any social system that tries to behave otherwise is doomed to failure.

Hmmm...

While there may be biological differences that are of use in healthcare applications, etc., we need to treat people with equality. Period.

[jen63]

36. I am chivalrous

and a women. I am equal opportunity where chivalry is concerned, as I think most women who came up in the 70s and are feminists are. There's nothing wrong with opening a door for a man, or paying for dinner or drinks. I don't need a man to protect me, I can do that myself very well, thank you. A gentleman imo takes into account what the woman he's with wants and acts accordingly. The same with women. It's called respect on both sides.

[haele]

40. I think the word "chivalry" has been mis-used since the victorian times.

Like many words that people don't commonly use.
Being chivalrous is basically acting with noblesse oblige or patronage, from the same root as chevalier or knight, which explains why it has fallen out of fashion except as an observation of an extreme since the turn of the 20th century.
The only reason someone might consider it sexist is that in the period from which chivalry actually meant more than opening doors and carrying packages, men were typically the knights or officers or politicians who "earned" that descriptive.
However, from the medieval European era up through the 18th century, there were occasionally women in positions of power who acted as knights or "noble patrons" and they were referred to as being chivalrous the same as their brothers might have done.

The main complaint to have against the term chivalry is from the implication condescension from a position of power. But in itself, it is not a sexist term.

I have participated in groups that do medieval re-creation. Chivalry is practiced as it was in period; a public politeness and awareness of a personal honor that is practiced equally by anyone who wants to be considered a "Lord" or a "Lady" (no matter the gender!) in whatever efforts they do within the organization.

Instead of pushing it away as a sexist trope, I would make the argument that it should be brought back the way it was meant to be - people who act better than they need to, and have a concerned awareness of others who aren't "just like them", rather than a casual antipathy for anyone who is different.

Sort of like taking an old word back from people who have no clue what it originally was meant to describe.

Haele

[treestar]

29. There were abusers back when we lived under that standard

It's a different question entirely.

[Jester Messiah]

30. Of that I have no doubt.

It's just that it was (and would be) less socially acceptable. We're so completely shameless in acting like animals nowadays. If people faced some social censure for acting like barbarians, maybe we'd all be better off.

[In_The_Wind]

13. It's a great way to send a non-violent message about violence.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

16. i am not sure why this has to be gendered. do men not like when people are nice to them?

[pamela]

23. I thought about that when I posted it.

It could have just said "Be Nice" and still been just as effective. I guess in the context of the Ray Rice incident they felt adding the "to girls" was appropriate. I don't have a problem with it in this context.

After reading the article, I was just impressed that the parents addressed it and that they felt they wanted to do something positive rather than something destructive like burning the jerseys. They seem like cool people.

[F4lconF16]

24. I hate it! arglbargl raaargh!

I think it was meant to protest violence against women specifically, as that was what the incident was mostly about.

[cleanhippie]

31. How about just "Be Nice"?

Shouldn't we "be nice" to everyone?

Not only should we not hit women, we shouldn't hit ANYONE out of anger. Ever.