The video of Ray Rice punching his fianceé when they were in the elevator:

[Are_grits_groceries]

http://www.tmz.com/videos/0_ekaflcqq/

A lot of people kept saying they'd wait until they saw the video to say anything. I guess they thought she did something to deserve being knocked out. I'm sure they will defend him even after seeing this video.
He should have gotten suspended for a year.

[tomm2thumbs]

1. kick for visibility

unbelievable -- NFL should think long and hard about what their 2 game suspension says about how they feel about women as a corporation and what they find mildly acceptable behavior from players

violence should not be accepted by the NFL nor the public

[chervilant]

2. Suspended for a year

at the very least! This is all about money, and reaffirms just what this woman's life is worth: nothing!

This man has clearly demonstrated that he will consider physical violence a potential response any time she does/doesn't do what HE wants.

[Hoppy]

7. He brings money to the NFL. She doesn't improve their bottom line by one thin dime.

[Doctor_J]

109. He by himself brings nothing to the NFL. If he goes to prison the Ravens will replace him before he

has a chance to memorize his convict number, and by the second week with his replacement in the line-up they'll barely remember him. The NFL's revenue will not be effected a bit if he's given the boot.

[chervilant]

112. Yeah,

and that justifies him punching her out, and then dragging her unconscious body unceremoniously out of the elevator?



There is absolutely no justification for what he did.

[hifiguy]

57. Are you kidding? For something that trivial?

Now if he smoked weed, that would deserve at least a year's suspension.

Is this necessary?

He should be suspended for a minimum of 8 games w/o pay.

[geek tragedy]

3. at least he didn't smoke pot

Hope Baltimore goes 0-16.

[ProfessorGAC]

4. Not Sure How The Court System Let Him Off As Lightly

Seems pretty tame as justice goes.

[Dorian Gray]

6. This

The NFL sucks, but with video evidence like that, he should have been in jail.

[City Lights]

21. "The NFL sucks"

Huge

[Blue_Tires]

25. His then-fiancee married him quickly after his arraignment

and a wife can't be compelled to testify against a spouse in NJ...

Without the wife's testimony, the prosecutors case was pretty thin....

I am interested in knowing why THAT part of the video was never made public until now...All I saw was the "dragging" part...

I'm also REALLY interested in knowing if Roger Goodell had seen this before handing down his flimsy 2-game punishment...(although the Ravens can still suspend Rice, iirc)

Josh Gordon has to be the most pissed off person in the world right now...

[ProfessorGAC]

42. Gordon Should Be

Are we sure about that "wife can't testify" thing because they weren't married at the time and there is video evidence.

Isn't this at least malicious enough for a C3 Misdemeanor for Disturbing the Peace?

Couldn't the casino press charges for precipitating a violent act on their premises?
GAC

[pnwmom]

151. The prosecutor could do his job without the wife's testimony. Those videos alone

should provide plenty of evidence to any judge or jury.

[ProfessorGAC]

192. That's What I Was Thinking

Not a lawyer, but sure seems pretty clear to me. You too, apparently.

[pnwmom]

196. The extended video, showing his behavior after the punch,

is even more damning than the enraged punch itself.

For several minutes, he shows absolutely no remorse or concern -- other than how to get her unconscious body out of the elevator.

[gcomeau]

53. I think the bigger factor...

...outweighing the "can't be compelled to testify" thing is that as the assaulted party she can just refuse to press charges. Which, since she married him, I'm assuming she unfortunately did.

[unblock]

104. the victim doesn't need to "press charges", the state can prosecute anyway.

obviously a murder victim can't "press charges"!

it's just that the state's case is usually much more difficult if the victim doesn't want to cooperate.

in this case, though, the video rather suggests that the state might actually have a reasonable case even without the victim cooperating.

[gcomeau]

105. But they generally don't if the victim doesn't want them to.

Even with the video, it's damn awkward trying to make your case when the victim is arguing for the other side. She gets up there and starts some nonsense story about oh it's not what it looks like, blah blah blah and what are you going to do? Attack her on the stand as part of convincing the jury how you're trying to protect her and look out for the best interests of her as a victim?

[unblock]

106. usually a reluctant victim would avoid the stand entirely.

but yes, i suppose they do have to allow for the possibility that the victim (especially of ongoing abuse) might not be merely on the sidelines but actively helping the defense, even at the risk of a perjury charge.

[gcomeau]

107. Especially when the victim in this case married the perpetrator after the incident... -eom

[unblock]

117. i think that certainly makes them less likely to cooperate

not sure it makes them more likely to commit perjury.

most would rather prefer not to be on the stand at all, to not allow themselves to be subject to cross-examination.
most defendants would probably prefer not to have their victims on the stand, even if they believe they have them under their thumb.
certainly most lawyers would recommend against it!

[pnwmom]

154. When it's as open and shut as this case would be, they can and should.

It doesn't matter what she might say. That video speaks for itself.

[gcomeau]

161. It matters a *great deal* what she would say actually.

Particularly to a jury. Now they might just completely ignore the testimony of the victim... but they probably wouldn't. Considering she's the victim.

[pnwmom]

162. Why? He knocked her out, on camera. He's guilty of assault. Open and shut case,

whether or not she testifies against him -- or even if she testified for him.

It's the prosecution's job to represent the state, not the victim. And it's in the interest of the state to prosecute a crime like this.

[gcomeau]

164. Unless...

...she gets up there and says "oh no, really what happened is we were playing around and I slipped and hit my head on that railing. the video totally makes it look worse than it was!"

Or, you know, basically anything she wants. Because nobody is going to seriously challenge any version of events she feels like giving as long as it's even remotely plausible. Because *she's the victim*.

[pnwmom]

166. That won't happen.

Don't forget -- there were all the other witnesses who saw her immediately after the attack. It's not just the video -- it's their testimony, too.

[gcomeau]

171. Oh really?

And how exactly are you going to ask any of them to contradict her testimony as to how the knocking out occurred when none of them were in the elevator when it happened? You can't ask them to testify to things they didn't see you know.

Try to think this through like a prosecutor.

[pnwmom]

172. Think about it -- they were talking to her when she was still groggy from the attack.

Do you think she already had a happy, made-up story to tell them? When she was too weak to sit up and they could just look at her face and see what happened?

And didn't you see the way she pulled away from him and tried to get back in the elevator? And the way he wasn't comforting her, the way any man would if his wife had just had an accident?

Their body language in front of those witnesses says it all, even if we don't know exactly what words came out of her mouth.

[gcomeau]

173. You just rebutted your own argument.

"when she was still groggy"

And the defense rips apart anything she was claimed to have said. She was still groggy. She didn't know what she was saying. And now she's NOT groggy and oh look, she's telling you exactly what "really" happened.

There is no need for a ready-to-go instant made up story.

And if you have to resort to appeals to body language and behavior in the face of the *direct explicit testimony of the person in question telling you you're getting it wrong* you're doomed.

[pnwmom]

153. She doesn't have to press charges. The prosecutor can do that all on his own ,

without her cooperation. They don't usually do that, but they can. And in this case, they have plenty of evidence without her testimony.

[cwydro]

5. And she married him!

God.

[pnwmom]

155. She already had a child with him -- they were already bound through that child. n/t

[Logical]

181. Yes, what a great father! nt

[Omaha Steve]

8. K&R!

[Helen Borg]

9. Is she still with him?...

[rpannier]

11. Married

[leftyohiolib]

17. some women will put up with anything for money

[Are_grits_groceries]

20. Shut.Up!

It is common for abuse victims to return to their abuser.
Many times they threaten her and others. Since they were punched like that, they believe it.

For you to make this about money is disgusting.

[leftyohiolib]

41. It is common for abuse victims to return to their abuser. WHY do they

[Skidmore]

48. Fear is a powerful thing.

Abusers exercise control through violence and intimidation. The victim feels helpless and cut off from others and may be dependent on their abuser for everything from finances to social contact. From the outside, the relationship may appear to be "perfect" and everything may seem to be alright. Unless you've been on the receiving end of abuse, your hasty judgements on a person's ability to extract himself/herself from it means nothing. Unless you've experienced the feelings of worthlessness, fear, shame, and humiliation that come with it, you will not understand. When children are involved, it becomes even more risky to attempt to leave. There is no easy answer to the "why."

[leftyohiolib]

69. so then it could be about money

The victim feels helpless and cut off from others and may be dependent on their abuser for everything from finances to social contact

[justiceischeap]

86. From everything Skidmore posted, this is the one thing that you decide to pick up on

because it in some sick way proves your point--which was thoughtless to begin with.

[leftyohiolib]

90. ok so you know absolutely the reason she's putting up with that and that it's DEFINITELY

NOT the money and the prestige.

[justiceischeap]

97. To read your comments, she puts up with it because it's DEFINITELY worth the money

and what's prestigious about being known as the woman that got her clock cleaned in an AC elevator? Would YOU wear that like a badge of honor? Are you even listening/reading to the BS you're posting? Do you think, after watching that video, he'll just do it that one time or hadn't done it before or again? And how do you know she gets any of his money? Do you DEFINITELY know he treats her well in regards to finances? You're making assumptions based on I don't know what.

[LadyHawkAZ]

102. Welcome to DU! Try the pizza. it's delicious.

[Skidmore]

95. Look, finances realistically can play into it and not for the reason I think you are hoping it does.

If the victim is solely dependent on the abuser, then that means not having the means to leave and start again. Starting over, especially, with the responsibility of the care of children, is not that easy. If you have been with your abuser for any length of time, then it is likely that you have no recent work experience, no independent income source of your own, nor do you necessarily have a place to go to or a good support system to help you in your time of need. Why is that so hard for you to grasp? This does happen frequently. Not every person has the ego strength or resources it takes to leave.

Look, I have no idea who you are but I speak from experience. It took me the better part of twenty years to extricate myself from an abusive relationship. I didn't stay for the money and I doubt anyone else stays for it. Abusive relationships are ever so much more complicated than you would like them to be. I am stopping my comment here because I believe that you are not able or willing to empathize with victims of abuse and I am finding myself tapping memories I'd sooner keep in the past.

[Tree-Hugger]

159. Thank you for sharing your story

I am sorry you had to deal with such abuse in your life. I hope you life is a billion times happier now.

Financial abuse is a very real thing, though rarely spoken about, leaving the general public undereducated about the topic. It's many times more complicated than staying in for the money. As you noted, the victim is held at an economic disadvantage.

[pnwmom]

169. Thank you for your posts, Skidmore. It's a shame that so many need to be educated

even here, on DU. But you did a great job.

[pnwmom]

168. You sure want to blame it on her, don't you? She's just a gold digger after his money.

He's the real victim.

[uppityperson]

133. Hope they changed. Fear they will get hurt worse if they don't (which often happens), lack of self

confidence after having mind games played on you isolating you and making you think you are worthless.

Off the top of my head, for starters.

[sufrommich]

27. That's a horrible thing to say. The number one

reason victims stay with their abuser is fear.

[leftyohiolib]

40. fear of what?

[sufrommich]

49. Gosh I don't know. Death?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/16/domestic-violence_n_5474177.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/my-friend-the-murder-statistic-domestic-violence-victims-might-seem-like-just-a-number--until-its-someone-you-know-9541853.html

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/09/07/domestic-violence-deaths-raise-questions-about-gaps/15260841/

http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2013/09/18/a-grim-tally-abusers-guns-and-the-women-they-kill/


http://posttrib.suntimes.com/news/porter/27060289-418/domestic-violence-ending-in-death-follows-pattern-familiar-to-many.html


http://www.twincities.com/crime/ci_25008486/minnesota-domestic-abuse-death-toll-2013-37

http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/2014/06/28/3176983/the-faces-of-domestic-violence.html

Silly battered women and their silly fears.

[leftyohiolib]

63. you think she fears for her life from this football player

[sufrommich]

71. I think the vast majority of domestic abuse victims

fear for their lives,on a daily basis.

[leftyohiolib]

77. in this case this is very hi profile she could probably him with out worry

[sufrommich]

83. What's that I hear?

O.J. Simpson laughing his ass off.

[leftyohiolib]

85. touche

[LanternWaste]

45. Always at least one feigning ignorance to promote a POV....

Always at least one feigning ignorance to promote a POV....

[leftyohiolib]

55. but i was just told

Unless you've Unless you've experienced the feelings of worthlessness, fear, shame, and humiliation that come with it, you will not understand
so which is it, am i feigning ignorance or am actually ignorant because i havent experienced the feelings of worthlessness, fear, shame, and humiliation that come with it,

[shireen]

123. try empathy. nt

[leftyohiolib]

125. i have empathy

[JimDandy]

129. Actually don't try empathy.

To do that would mean someone has experienced domestic violence. Odd to think this way, but: the less people that can empathize, the better we're doing to help reduce domestic violence. SYMPATHY is definitely called for here, though.

[shireen]

188. sorry, i don't understand

I don't need to have experienced domestic violence to feel empathy for that lady. It's about putting yourself in that person's shoes, mentally … seeing it from their perspective. I think empathy is a good thing.

Did i misunderstand your words?

[JimDandy]

190. You are correct.

I used the term empathy to clearly differentiate it from 'sympathy' by emphasizing the 'experienced' part of its definition. Of course one can mentally walk in someone's shoes. I devalued that part of it's definition to put a finer point on an argument, and that was not helpful here.

[ann---]

187. Couldn't her

parents or other family members help her to get away from him and protect her? "Staying together for the kids" is NOT the answer in an abusive relationship. Not sure why those who love her didn't get involved and get this man put in jail where he belongs.

[LeftyMom]

50. Anti-choice DUer blames woman for her own abuse. News at 11. nt

[davidn3600]

58. She married him and refused to cooperate with authorities

What the hell kind of message do you think that sends to the world? That if your fiancee' is a NFL running back that makes millions that it's OK to forgive him when he beats you up?

[LeftyMom]

67. She's not responsible for his behavior and the her living her life isn't a message to anybody.

He's the famous one. Nobody ever heard of her until somebody twice her size knocked her out. How in god's name is she being held to a higher standard when he's a criminal and she's literally done nothing wrong?

[justiceischeap]

87. Well, LeftyMom, that's where you're wrong

she's got two boobs instead of two balls, so that makes her automatically guilty by default. You know, she *had* to be asking for it.

[LeftyMom]

89. She's being a victim wrong. She's supposed to stand up to the enormous, powerful, wealthy, famous

person who is beloved in their community. While everybody blames her for her initial abuse, any legal sanctions he faces AND any losses the football team has until at least the resolution of a trial.

That sounds like fun, sign me the fuck up.

[davidn3600]

91. When a victim refuses to cooperate with police, they tend to lose sympathy with people

He beats her up, and then she turns around and marries him 4 weeks later! Would you be so kind to explain that to me?

[LeftyMom]

92. Abusive relationships are fucked up. This is not news. His behavior is still not her fault.

She could marry him, have his children and build a statue of him on the front lawn around which she danced while singing songs in his praise and it still wouldn't matter. We know for a fact that he knocked her out cold and dragged her unconscious body around. He's an adult and he's responsible for his own behavior, and his behavior is criminal and dangerous.

Poor taste in partners does not cancel out criminal assault.

[wellstone dem]

176. I love you

Lefty Mom, I love you, I love you, I love you.

It's not about her. It's about him. Not why does she stay. Why doesn't he stop????

[BlancheSplanchnik]

180. Oh, I just felt like sharing the jury results on that post you're responding to.

These perpetually obtuse DU'ers, always asking the same seemingly innocent questions, again and again, in spite of the ANSWERS to their so-called "questions" which are easily found within the thread--this obvious game they play continually gets passes from juries.

Its the kind of Pass that used to be given to racists who just couldn't fathom why black people objected to profiling, discrimination in real estate and rentals, &etc....why would a Black person WANT to live "with us", instead of "with their own people?" This question would always be stated n a similarly innocent tone of voice.
Can we here NOT see the parallel?


Jury Results

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Who cares if this guy has sympathy" He is always blaming women. Why is this kind of person allowed on this site?

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Sep 9, 2014, 01:30 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's a legitimate question.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: As per the alert, it's time to stop giving a pass to the people in our DU community who insist on maintaining a hostile attitude towards women and our experience. So many of this personality type here take the offence against any issue women struggle with. The only "issues" that seem to get their wholehearted support are the top-free movement. And women's right to work in the sex trade--posing, acting or soliciting.

I am tired of this attitude getting a pass.
-Blanche
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Posters not breaking any rules.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: confusion on all sides.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I have no problem hiding over the line sexist posts. However, IMHO this one doesn't rise to that level.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Read the damn post again, and then read the first reply to it; a question asked then properly answered. Simple, no?

[LeftyMom]

182. Well, thanks for trying. I'm glad somebody sees through the strategic befuddlement. nt

[lovemydog]

189. Thank you LeftyMom.

I agree with you one hundred percent.

[pnwmom]

131. They shouldn't -- especially with non-ignorant people. There is a reason so many of the women

in these situations feel trapped -- they have been trained since childhood to expect men to behave this way. And they want to believe the man who says, "never again."

[BainsBane]

178. No one asked for your sympathy

What we want is justice, but the worst in society seem intent on blaming victims rather than abuser. That is precisely what enables violence against women to perpetuate, which is why people do it.

It doesn't take but a 8th grade reading level to look into battered woman syndrome. These matters have been written about widely in the popular press. You have chosen to keep yourself uninformed on the subject, and worse yet use that ignorance to insult victims of abuse. In a civilized society abusers are held accountable, not their victims.

[NewJeffCT]

160. You don't think he could have said

"If you tell anybody what happened, I'll fucking kill you"?? (or something to that effect)

In that situation, he has all the power - physically, financially and also fame-wise. If she divorces him, presses charges, cooperates with authorities, etc, she could very well be worried for her life. How often are famous people - celebrities, athletes, politicians - let off with just a slap on the wrist?

[LeftyMom]

170. Or that he'd keep their mutual child away from her.

[leftyohiolib]

66. im not anti-choice you can do what you want with your pregnacy

[LeftyMom]

68. That's funny, I seem to recall you calling women murderers a few threads back. nt.

[leftyohiolib]

75. yes i think abortion kills but what you do with your pregnancy doesnt affect me

[LeftyMom]

76. Yep, your attitude toward women is delightful.

[leftyohiolib]

80. it isnt about her it's about the fact that it's my baby too

[LeftyMom]

81. Considering your attitude toward women it's a safe bet you'll never run into this problem!

[leftyohiolib]

99. being 52 and married i think it would be a safe bet

[geek tragedy]

108. Be honest about being anti- choice please:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=520645

21. i think a father should be able to force the birth, it is his baby as well. personal belief
if it were my baby and she wanted to abort and i didnt. i would fight to get my baby


Do you think the male involved in the pregnancy should have the legal right to force her to carry to term if she doesn't want to?

this is a discussion the 2 adults should have before doing something this adult act
A Jury voted 6-1 to hide this post on Mon Jul 7, 2014, 04:44 PM. Reason: This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

[Arugula Latte]

120. Grow a uterus and then you can get the final say.

Until then, you should STFU and you are contemptible if you try to "force" someone to carry an unwanted pregnancy.

[Arugula Latte]

126. Like I said, grow a uterus and you get the final say.

[leftyohiolib]

128. I dont recognize you as the arbitor of these things. you can express your OPINION on

this over and over but it still carries the same weight. the child is mine too and i should have a say in that childs birth or lack thereof. how about we not hijack this thread

[beam me up scottie]

186. Jury results are in:

On Tue Sep 9, 2014, 12:07 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

uterus or no it's still my baby too and i will not stfu about it. try reading it helps
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5505672

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Doubling down on TWO anti choice/forced birth posts that were hidden 6-1 - both post #110 and another post from earlier http://democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5206465 (provided link due to typo in post #108).

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Sep 9, 2014, 12:30 AM, and the Jury voted 4-3 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Post 110 said "force was hyperbole like i can really force someone to give birth". And it was hidden. Why hide this one too? This seems like a stupid alert-fight.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I understand that the party with the uterus carries a more medical burden during pregnancy, and personally I would defer to the woman's position on this. But a person raising the argument that the father is also a stakeholder should not be shouted down. Disagree if you are so moved, but there is no need to be belligerent about it.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: It's been obvious for some time that this poster should take his opinions somewhere else.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I've seen enough. Misogyny, like racism, has no place on DU. Wish I could do more than hide this post.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't like this apparent effort to get repeated posts hidden on this guy. It stinks. He's expressing his views, it's not offensive, lay off.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[alp227]

177. better link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5206465

[TBF]

113. ^^^ Wow. nt

[BainsBane]

179. With "allies" like this

Who needs enemies.

[pnwmom]

130. This is blame the victim talk. You don't know why she's still with him.

She might have been trained, by a brutal father, to think that this behavior is normal. That's the case for many women who stay with abusive partners; they learned it from childhood.

[DURHAM D]

137. According to comments on tv this pm she was

pressured by the Ravens and the NFL to do that stupid sham press conference in which she took the blame for his hitting her and apologized for the incident. Maybe they also pressured her to marry him to protect the image of a bunch of men who only hit each other when they are covered in protective gear.

[pnwmom]

140. That is disgusting, if true. I hope the truth comes out. n/t

[fishwax]

157. good god

[Gormy Cuss]

165. Beats dying

but not by much.

[bettyellen]

195. UGH. But men who get their heads bashed in for bucks are heros in our culture.

[yuiyoshida]

10. omg...

K&R for exposure

[rpannier]

12. Went over to ESPN

His defenders are noticeably absent
But those that think he's an a@@hole and should be in jail have swarmed

I'd be curious to see how the following deal with this now
Goodell

Harbaugh Cuz he said some stupid stuff before the Ravens put him on no-talk

The Judge who agreed to the plea. If it's an elected position he's likwly done. If I were running against him that'd be my political advert

The Prosecutor who signed off on it.
If I were running against the D.A. I'd run that reminding the voters that no matter who the prosecutor was, Dimbulb had to sign off on the plea

This isn't over for Rice
No sane company will endorse him.
Accusations and he-said, she-said are one thing
Video... kinda hard to nuance it. Esp that video

[marble falls]

13. No jail? Will he have to kill her first? I hope he has no firearms.

[hifiguy]

60. If she didn't want to press charges

the hands of the prosecutor may be tied. Depends on the state. But if a victim doesn't want to proceed with a case, that can be the end of it, legally speaking. Not saying it's right or good, just how the system works,

[marble falls]

116. In most places its understood that the crime is filed by the people and the victim becomes a witness

To the crime committed by someone on the people through it happening to the victims.Its only right. We don't want directly interested party's meting out the peoples' justice.

[hifiguy]

118. If - and I say if because I don't know -

she told authorities she would not testify against him the DA/prosecutor may have decided not to proceed with the case. Every state has their own procedures. The video, IMO, is irrefutable evidence to support a charge of aggravated assault.

[pnwmom]

150. They don't need her cooperation since there is undeniable evidence about the attack.

Legally, the prosecutor doesn't represent the victim. S/he represents the state and is charged with upholding the law, regardless of the victim's preferences. The video would give the enough evidence to prosecute without the victim's testimony.

[LiberalLoner]

14. Horrifying! Thanks for posting and raising awareness.

[Heather MC]

15. Ok not excusing his behavior, however I know this will piss people off

Women stop hitting men.

Before they got on the elvator she hit him. She may do this all the time which explains why the courts didn't give him jail time. She also came at him in the elelavator.

Now in the case of the Jay Zee Video everyone commented on the restraint he had for not hitting Solange, but no one seemed to be shaming her for attacking him.

I am not saying his behavior is correct, Just saying she might not have been laid out on the floor if she wasn't getting physical with him to begin with.

Don't pick fights with people that can hurt you.

[DURHAM D]

18. Seriously?

Her slapping at him merits his response? Sick.

[snooper2]

23. If a guy smacked a woman and she laid him out people here would be cheering her

[DURHAM D]

24. You are wrong

but I am not at all surprised by your view.

[snooper2]

29. What view? He should have been cut for a year and at least probation, I was simply

pointing out what the responses would be like here-

In fact, I seem to remember the reverse case happening in the past but am too lazy to search for it LOL

[LanternWaste]

47. Creative, if unimaginative prophecy of yours...

Creative, if unimaginative prophecy of yours...

[treestar]

38. Afraid that is right

There's a thread http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5484631

[leftyohiolib]

78. i remember this

[mercuryblues]

114. are you

fecking serious? A federal agent took down a man who sexually assaulted her and you are using that to justify this comment from above:

"If a guy smacked a woman and she laid him out people here would be cheering her"

[treestar]

127. No, that's an unfair characterization

I am saying that in fact that has been said on DU, which the poster upthread doubted.

[mercuryblues]

135. I think that

is a fair assessment.

The poster said: If a guy smacked a woman and she laid him out people here would be cheering her

Implying that if the video showed Raylena Rice doing that to Joe Palmer, people on DU would cheer.

You agreed and posted the link to a story where a federal agent took down a man who sexually assaulted her as proof that the poster was correct. As if the 2 scenarios are equal.

Big fucking difference between the 2 stories.

[Heather MC]

143. yep!

[joeglow3]

32. No. But why does everyone say he hit her first (as TMZ does as well)?

[Heather MC]

142. Not what I said at all, thanks for reading

[Are_grits_groceries]

22. Are you serious???

You are going to blame the person who got knocked out?
You need to read about domestic abuse and talk to some survivors before you post about this again.

[Heather MC]

141. She married him after that it didn't bother her that much

Last edited Tue Sep 9, 2014, 07:06 AM - Edit history (1)

[Are_grits_groceries]

191. You need to read about domestic violence victims.

Supporting their abuser and rallying to their side is common behavior in these cases. It is a complex dynamic. In addition, the abuser may have threatened the victim or those close to her.

She may be in very real danger now and going forward. Your blithe dismissal of her problem is naive and dangerous.

[Heather MC]

193. How is it Dangerous, I will never encounter these two people in the course of my day

I don't make legislation regarding spousal Abuse.

Talking about their situation on DU hardly endangers either of them.

And the woman slapped on a beautiful dress, got her hair done and said "I do" the day after he was indicted for hitting her.

She may very well be in danger, but not from me.

[Heather MC]

194. you need to read about their relationship

pulsefeedz.wordpress.com/2014/09/09/applaud-yourselves-for-hurting-janay-and-ray-rice-more-than-youve-helped/

The prosecutor in Rice’s case accepted him into an intervention program which would require him to seek counseling and clear him of his charges in six months. And to top it all off according to SI’s Peter King, Janay Rice pleaded with the commissioner in a “moving and apparently convincing case” that this was a “one-time event.”

If Rice’s prosecutor and his wife were satisfied that he understood how detrimental his actions were, isn’t that all that matters?

[MH1]

36. As a much stronger opponent, it doesn't matter if she hit him.

Rather than hit back, he could have walked away.

Others have posted that he spit on her first. Whatever. Obviously it was an argument that escalated to physical attacks. But in this case the stronger person (MUCH stronger) has an easy choice to walk away, and that is what he should have done.

There is NO excuse for someone of his size and strength punching a much weaker opponent. Unless he is knocking a gun out of their hand.

[951-Riverside]

46. Shame on you n/t

[Heather MC]

144. #NoShame

[sufrommich]

145. #whyistayed

https://twitter.com/hashtag/whyistayed?f=realtime&src=hash

[Nye Bevan]

52. And don't get mouthy either.

Or you may just get beaten senseless in an elevator.

[Sheldon Cooper]

61. So if a toddler slaps me in a fit of pique, I can go ahead and punch his lights out?

Is that really what you're saying?

[Heather MC]

146. No I am not

I am saying this idea that it is ok for her to hit him is Just as wrong as him hitting her.

And she is not a toddler she is a grown woman and she should have learn to keep her hands to herself when she was a toddler.

[Sheldon Cooper]

149. Sorry Heather, but you couldn't be more wrong.

It is disturbing that you are blaming the victim. Very disturbing.

[Heather MC]

167. Ok I am wrong, sure.

And here's the lovely victim the day after Ray got indicted for assaulting her


She is crying maybe he is forcing her into this

[LeftyMom]

73. No, that's exactly what you're doing. nt

[Logical]

82. Wow, you really are missing the point! nt

[City Lights]

88. "Don't pick fights with people that can hurt you."

The world's bullies thank you.

[Heather MC]

148. If the video was just her hitting him would it even be news?

[chervilant]

121. "Don't wear short skirts to clubs"?!?

"Don't drink alcohol when you're out with a bunch of guys"?!? Really?!? That's what it sounds like you're saying!

I'm appalled by your post, and hope that you will take the time and make the effort to learn more about relationship violence.

Also,

"So while this video may expose the brutality of the assault that landed Rice with a mere two-game suspension, it also exposes the brutality of a culture that does not see women as human."

and

"...our culture’s disregard for women’s humanity — the fact that women can’t have a reasonable expectation of safety and privacy, online or off — remains the same as it ever was."

(These are quotes from a Salon article by Katie McDonough.)

[justiceischeap]

139. You need to watch the first 30 seconds of this video again

At roughly 8 seconds he spits on her
At roughly 11 seconds she back hands him with a motion that seems to barely touch him
At roughly 25 seconds he hits her the first time, her hand goes up in a defensive motion



At 27 seconds she moves toward him
At 28 seconds he punches her so hard it looks like she hits the rail and that is what probably knocked her out (and could have killed her)
At 58 seconds, after he drags her out of the elevator and dumps her on the ground, he then "toes" her to wake her up?
At around 1:26 she starts coming around, which means she was out cold for almost a minute

So, who started this altercation? What we don't see is what happens before they get to the elevator but what we do see outside and in the elevator in no way was started by her.

How about men, don't spit on women? How about men, don't smack women in elevators and then follow that up with a knock-out blow?

[Logical]

183. You are a really clueless if you believe that! nt

[LittleGirl]

16. She married him. good grief. eom

[riderinthestorm]

19. Despicable. Then he just drags her like a sack of potatoes

Despicable. He should be in jail and she needs serious counseling.

[sufrommich]

26. He's probably done this more than once,just not on

camera.He doesn't react as if he's shocked that he knocked her out.

[riderinthestorm]

28. Agreed. And the other guy doesn't even check to make sure she's ok either!

Both of them just stand around after he drags her off the elevator, not checking her or anything.

Which leads me to believe that it had been witnessed before too...

Domestic violence is just so easily glossed over in our culture. Its pretty sick.

[DURHAM D]

138. and a bunch of other guys arrived and just stood

around and watched. Guess they don't know how to call 911.

[Nye Bevan]

30. A year? After seeing that video, I would say a lifetime ban (nt)

[hughee99]

184. It's a year before he can apply for reinstatement

but they don't have to let him come back after that, and it can be conditioned on him doing certain things (anger management therapy, charity work, etc...). The penalty will be for a minimum of a year and for as long as the NFL wants to keep him out. In the history of the NFL, only 3 players have ever been banned for life, and none since 1989.

Aaron Hernandez murdered several people and only got suspended 4 games. In all fairness, they haven't revisited it since he's not able to play, and the trial hasn't finished.

[Tsiyu]

31. Go sports!

Great role model for our young people right there.

[strawberries]

33. no one could defend him after seeing that video

God his family must be devasted and shocked or maybe not.

There is no defending this man

Did I read that she married him?

[kcr]

37. You'd think so. But read this thread.

It's got the usual nonsense.

[trumad]

34. To the dip shits defending this guy

and spouting off that she initiated it---you're full of shit.

He clearly spit at her as she walked by at the beginning of the video.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

51. It looks like he spit on her by the elevator buttons as well.

She clearly wanted to be left alone. He initiated and provoked.

[WI_DEM]

35. If you're an athlete you can get away with almost anything with a tap on the wrist.

[Sunlei]

39. He could have killed her. Where was the felony charge?

I'd like to see police departments start to use similar policy as the team policies. Huge fines and long suspensions (without pay) for police brutality.

[Iggo]

93. Famous.Athlete.

Protected.Class.

[Yavin4]

43. I thought that you can charge a spousal abuser without the testimony of the abused

You have the video evidence, so the prosecutors wouldn't need her testimony. He should have been put in jail for first degree assault and battery.

[sufrommich]

54. You can in Michigan. I'm not sure every state has that law.

In Michigan,if the police determine that domestic violence has taken place,they don't need the victims testimony or compliance to arrest.

[Yavin4]

56. Exactly. I thought the same was true for Atlantic City.

I guess not.

[sufrommich]

59. Now I'm curious about how widespread this law is.

It's a wonderful law in my opinion,it takes the onus off of victims who usually are victimized again for complying with domestic violence charges.

[Yavin4]

62. I thought that it was widespread as well.

A progressive state like NJ would have it on the books, but then again, my knowledge of the law comes from watching "Law & Order".

[JimDandy]

134. That is THE biggest plus to that law

For the abuser it is all about control/obedience. That law removes her participation as a focus for his rage. But that only works as far as the arrest. It is hard to prosecute a crime without the victim's testimony. Nice that a video is available to the prosecutor in this case though.

[jen63]

197. In Ohio also.

There is no more "dropping the charges" here. The prosecutor brings the charges. There were too many battered women who chose not to prosecute their offenders, so the state and counties took it out of their hands. As well they should. We all know about the so called "honeymoon phase", after an attacker abuses his partner. They then refuse to prosecute because she/he want to believe that this will be the last time. It very rarely is. These abusers are masters of manipulation; they care nothing for their victims, it's all about self-preservation and "getting caught". Scum, I have absolutely no patience or domestic batterers.

[951-Riverside]

44. Re: "He should have gotten suspended for a year."

NO! NO! NO! NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FUCK NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



This thug asshole should be in prison like anyone else and permanently FIRED from his job ...like everyone else.

I AM FUCKING SICK AND TIRED OF POLICE THUGS AND NFL THUGS GETTING A FREE PASS FOR BEATING THE SHIT OUT OF PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!

[NCTraveler]

98. Every day men in this country beat up women.

"thug asshole should be in prison like anyone else". You see, there is the problem. You think everyone goes to jail for this. Not the case. Everyone doing this doesn't lose their job. Everyone doing this doesn't go to prison. That is the problem. This isn't preferential treatment like some are making it out to be. This isn't the big bad man getting away with something because he has money. This is a daily occurrence in this country.

[redstatebluegirl]

64. Not much different than the Joe Mixon situation at OU.

First year football star Mixon, went into a sandwich shop on campus around 2:45 a.m., a young woman said something to him and pushed him back, he clocked her in the face, broke her jaw and damaged her eye socket. Got a misdemeanor charge, the people in town went after the "morals" of the young woman who he injured and wanted him reinstated on the team. He was suspended for one year but is still on campus attending classes.

There was video but it has not be released to the public...yet. They allowed the media to see it, and from what they have written he would be hard pressed to play anywhere else which is likely the reason he is staying at OU and doing his "year of suspension". Look for him in the NFL in a few years, they could care less about character! The District Attorney said he has had horrible murders that didn't get the attention or phone calls to his office this did.

I love football but this is nuts. Saying any woman who is as small as the woman Rice injured and the one Mixon injured (has been said she was less than 120 pounds), deserves a strong punch to the face by a man who is in prime physical condition and used to hitting linemen is just plain stupid!

A woman vs. a football player is worth less than dirt.

[exboyfil]

74. It is reported that Mixon

made a homosexual slur towards one of her companions. That is why she initially slapped him.

[redstatebluegirl]

119. Yes, that is what I have read.

After hearing about Ray Rice being released, you have to hope the same thing will happen to Mixon when that tape is released to the public, including the women who back OU.

[maxrandb]

65. Holy Crap

Some of the responses on this thread make me think that if he had a gun and had shot her, folks would say he could claim "Stand Your Ground"!

Sickening! Anyone who can see this video, and justify him knocking her out, needs to seriously question their humanity. And I would say the same thing if a 260LB solid miscle woman had sucker punched a 100 pound man.

It seems that in a few short years we've gone from "walk away if you can" to "fuck-it, waste 'em if you can"

[LittleBlue]

70. That is unbelievable. Rice should have gone to prison. And now they're married

What will she do when they have kids? Because you know the next time Rice will be careful not to do it in public. They'll share the same home as a married couple, and he'll be free to abuse her without outside scrutiny.

Any children they have will witness their dad spitting and beating on their mother. So sad.

[LeftyMom]

72. All the posters blaming her are exactly the people I would have guessed before I opened the thread.

Remind me again how DU doesn't have a misogyny problem?

[trumad]

79. yep...

Clockwork with these pigs.

[Iggo]

96. Word.

[DURHAM D]

101. Amen.

[Mr Dixon]

84. IMO

The owner‘s of the NFL are a bunch of old billionaires, why would anyone be surprised that they could care less about this issue? When these dude’s we’re in there impressionable years smacking a woman wasn’t a show stopper so in their eyes this is not a big deal, just buy me a new stadium and shut-up poor people this means you.

[Deadbeat Republicans]

94. Ray Rice video’s second horror: Why it never should have been published in the first place

http://www.salon.com/2014/09/08/ray_rice_videos_second_horror_why_it_never_should_have_been_published_in_the_first_place/

I apologize for starting a thread at latest breaking news forum on the same story. Newbie mistakes, I meant no disruption.

[Blue_Tires]

132. If nothing else, that video needed to be released

to:

1. Once and for all shut the naysayers up about how the girl slipped and fell or was responsible for the incident...

2. Expose the woven quilt of lies sold to football fans by the NFL, the Ravens, and the mainstream sports media...


Without that video, Rice is at practice today getting ready for his Week 3 start...

[cwydro]

111. Celebrity privilege

means another asshole faces no consequences,

[justiceischeap]

115. For those that may not have seen it, the Ravens have released Rice.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025504957

[rocktivity]

124. The first video was more than damning enough for me

Last edited Wed May 27, 2015, 09:59 PM - Edit history (1)

This is NOT how you handle people you have knocked out accidentally -- especially if you're planning to marry them.

Now that the second video is out, the NFL is just trying to save face, but they look worse than ever in not giving Rice at least as much punishment as they did to that player who smoked pot!


rocktivity

[Blue Owl]

136. Hideous, heinous, horrific

This is how "loved" ones are treated?

[malaise]

147. So why did she marry him?

That remains my question.
Fire him.

[sufrommich]

158. Maybe she grew up in an abusive household

and abuse is the norm for her. Maybe he wasn't always abusive and she thinks he'll change. Maybe she's convinced herself that their child is better off in a two parent family at great cost to herself.Maybe he's convinced her that she's a loser and no one else "loves" her and she believes that. Does it really fucking matter?


https://twitter.com/hashtag/whyistayed?f=realtime&src=hash

[Generic Brad]

152. Getting fired and indefinitely suspended is better

Now the NFL commissioner and the management of the Ravens needs the heave ho.

[phil89]

156. How can he not get prison time for this?

Sports worship trumps everything I guess?

[Ishoutandscream2]

163. Saw it when I got home from work

Almost made me physically ill.

[underthematrix]

174. ladies you have been warned. the NFL

means brain damaged, violent and horrible role models for children, especially their own.

[LeftyMom]

175. That's unfair. A lot of players are legitimately nice people and they're all hard workers

or they wouldn't be where they are.

Steve Young, jumps to mind because I'm a Niner fan. Just today he's pressuring his former team to suspend Ray McDonald in light of his domestic violence charges. Previously he was one of the most well-known Mormons speaking out against Prop 8. If he's not a smart guy after football (and he quit because of concussions) then I'm real curious how he got himself a law degree.

I'm sure people more familiar with other franchises could point to many other people who are every bit as admirable and upstanding. You're painting with a really broad brush and it's ignorant.

[ann---]

185. From what I understand

before the video inside the elevator was release, the FACTS as the NFL knew them were reported accurately about his punching her in the face and knocking her unconscious. The FACT that they didn't fire him until the video went PUBLIC says a lot about how the NFL protects abusers. The man should be in jail.