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Wed Apr 11, 2012, 03:49 PM

How positive are you of Zimmerman's guilt or innocence?

Last edited Wed Apr 11, 2012, 06:13 PM - Edit history (1)

I just read several threads on FR on the subject, and they all seem to be 100% certain of what happened.

How about you? Do you know for certain what happened?

112 replies, 6950 views

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Arrow 112 replies Author Time Post
Reply How positive are you of Zimmerman's guilt or innocence? (Original post)
ZombieHorde Apr 2012 OP
Skidmore Apr 2012 #1
Common Sense Party Apr 2012 #21
janx Apr 2012 #63
Common Sense Party Apr 2012 #65
janx Apr 2012 #69
Iggo Apr 2012 #77
MADem Apr 2012 #91
Becka2515 Apr 2012 #107
BklnDem75 Apr 2012 #111
madokie Apr 2012 #84
Ian David Apr 2012 #2
Baitball Blogger Apr 2012 #3
bayareamike Apr 2012 #46
Baitball Blogger Apr 2012 #56
cali Apr 2012 #4
iscooterliberally Apr 2012 #8
gratuitous Apr 2012 #5
Vincardog Apr 2012 #6
X_Digger Apr 2012 #7
zappaman Apr 2012 #9
Common Sense Party Apr 2012 #22
Mysfyt Apr 2012 #37
rbixby Apr 2012 #10
WI_DEM Apr 2012 #11
AtomicKitten Apr 2012 #12
d_r Apr 2012 #13
ingac70 Apr 2012 #14
hamsterjill Apr 2012 #15
ileus Apr 2012 #16
pokerfan Apr 2012 #17
Boabab Apr 2012 #49
polichick Apr 2012 #18
Quantess Apr 2012 #19
slampoet Apr 2012 #20
Ohio Joe Apr 2012 #23
WolverineDG Apr 2012 #24
Life Long Dem Apr 2012 #25
RebelOne Apr 2012 #26
Common Sense Party Apr 2012 #28
uppityperson Apr 2012 #31
Common Sense Party Apr 2012 #35
uppityperson Apr 2012 #36
Common Sense Party Apr 2012 #41
Boabab Apr 2012 #52
Common Sense Party Apr 2012 #61
uppityperson Apr 2012 #70
Common Sense Party Apr 2012 #75
uppityperson Apr 2012 #80
Common Sense Party Apr 2012 #95
uppityperson Apr 2012 #96
Common Sense Party Apr 2012 #97
obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #109
vaberella Apr 2012 #72
Common Sense Party Apr 2012 #74
obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #108
LanternWaste Apr 2012 #82
Common Sense Party Apr 2012 #86
LanternWaste Apr 2012 #89
MADem Apr 2012 #93
Common Sense Party Apr 2012 #94
MADem Apr 2012 #92
BklnDem75 Apr 2012 #112
randome Apr 2012 #27
Life Long Dem Apr 2012 #34
BootinUp Apr 2012 #29
Liberal_in_LA Apr 2012 #45
Egalitarian Thug Apr 2012 #30
tallahasseedem Apr 2012 #32
rrneck Apr 2012 #33
Spider Jerusalem Apr 2012 #38
treestar Apr 2012 #39
Common Sense Party Apr 2012 #42
Mysfyt Apr 2012 #40
MrSlayer Apr 2012 #43
Kaleva Apr 2012 #44
11 Bravo Apr 2012 #47
ecstatic Apr 2012 #48
Cali_Democrat Apr 2012 #50
janx Apr 2012 #54
Hoyt Apr 2012 #51
DevonRex Apr 2012 #53
ctaylors6 Apr 2012 #55
BeHereNow Apr 2012 #57
hobbit709 Apr 2012 #58
got root Apr 2012 #59
Lizzie Poppet Apr 2012 #60
applegrove Apr 2012 #62
Lurks Often Apr 2012 #64
hootinholler Apr 2012 #66
ZombieHorde Apr 2012 #68
Taverner Apr 2012 #67
vaberella Apr 2012 #71
Incitatus Apr 2012 #73
Throd Apr 2012 #76
SlipperySlope Apr 2012 #78
shimonitanegi Apr 2012 #79
Blue_Tires Apr 2012 #81
slackmaster Apr 2012 #83
LanternWaste Apr 2012 #85
Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #87
Prism Apr 2012 #88
BronxBoy Apr 2012 #100
Prism Apr 2012 #104
MADem Apr 2012 #90
sendero Apr 2012 #98
ZombieHorde Apr 2012 #99
sendero Apr 2012 #101
ZombieHorde Apr 2012 #105
Curmudgeoness Apr 2012 #102
Zax2me Apr 2012 #103
DefenseLawyer Apr 2012 #106
NorthCarolina Apr 2012 #110

Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 03:52 PM

1. I'm certain that he shot an unarmed man and the man died.

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Response to Skidmore (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 04:05 PM

21. Unarmed child.

That is the appropriate and accepted word.

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Response to Common Sense Party (Reply #21)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 09:34 PM

63. What?

Trayvon Martin was a 17-year-old. Not a child, but a very (barely) young man. What are you saying here?

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Response to janx (Reply #63)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 11:12 PM

65. I'm referring to the countless posts here that refer to Trayvon as an "unarmed child".

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Response to Common Sense Party (Reply #65)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 11:46 PM

69. In that case, make it known that you are doing so, please.

Trayvon was unarmed, but he was not a child. He was, however, an adolescent--not quite an adult.

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Response to janx (Reply #69)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 01:07 AM

77. He sure as fuck was a child.

He was a child, walking home from the store, with a bag of candy, when he was attacked by a man with a gun, who shot him. And now he's a dead child.

He was never a man and he'll never be one.

Because George Zimmerman shot him dead.

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Response to Common Sense Party (Reply #65)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 01:24 PM

91. He was a child. He couldn't vote, drink, sign a contract. He was a child, under the care of his

parents. Why are you so eager to morph him into an adult?

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Response to MADem (Reply #91)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 08:05 AM

107. Isnt 17 at least the age of consent in FL?

 

nt

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Response to Becka2515 (Reply #107)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 09:13 AM

111. In some states it's 16...

which is still a child.

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Response to Common Sense Party (Reply #21)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 12:14 PM

84. Thank you

i was fixing to say the same

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 03:52 PM

2. We don't know for certain. And it's pretty clear the local cops made sure we wouldn't know. n/t

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 03:56 PM

3. I'm certain it's at least manslaughter.

That can be determined because he decided to chase him down.

It might be 2nd degree, depending on the evidence.

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #3)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 05:09 PM

46. I concur.

I'm guessing it's either going to be voluntary manslaughter or 2nd degree murder. I'm leaning toward voluntary manslaughter.

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Response to bayareamike (Reply #46)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 08:17 PM

56. Results are in.

I am happy for the Martin family because this is going to be the first step towards acceptance of the horrible thing that has happened to their family.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 03:57 PM

4. I'm sure that he should be charged.

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Response to cali (Reply #4)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 03:59 PM

8. +1 n/t

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 03:57 PM

5. No idea whatsoever

But I do know that in these United States as currently (ahem) constituted, if enough people (or the right people) agree that Zimmerman's a very, very bad person, we can have him summarily executed.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 03:58 PM

6. I am certain he deserves his day in court PRONTO that way he can try to clear his name

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 03:59 PM

7. The thing I really wonder about..

.. is whether Zimmerman tried to tackle / detain / assault Martin.

And I think that's what the case will hinge on.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 03:59 PM

9. I have no idea

because their hasn't been a trial yet where evidence has been presented.
I don't know the guy either, so I can't prescribe motives or tell you what his thoughts may or may not have been.
Certainly doesn't stop many here from telling you all sorts of things about the guy that they "know".

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Response to zappaman (Reply #9)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 04:07 PM

22. Yes, the amount of clairvoyance around here is astounding.

People who weren't within 1000 miles of the shooting somehow know EXACTLY what happened and PRECISELY what was in Zimmerman's heart.

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Response to Common Sense Party (Reply #22)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 04:29 PM

37. holy crap a voice of fucking reason :p


you do know you are an endangered specie don't you?

+10 for the sarcasm

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 03:59 PM

10. There's too much evidence that we haven't seen yet

That all being said, I'm leaning towards guilty, but again, I think he should be charged with something and let justice take its course.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 03:59 PM

11. I'm certain he pursued an unarmed person who wasn't breaking any laws and pursued him

despite being told by 911 not to do so, and that he shot that unarmed person dead.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 04:00 PM

12. I know that he pursued and shot to death an innocent unarmed young man.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 04:00 PM

13. I'm certain there should be a trial

not certain how that will turn out, that's why they should have one

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 04:00 PM

14. We know he killed that kid....

whether or not it was on purpose will be hashed out in court.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 04:00 PM

15. I'm not certain...

I will welcome the opportunity for some real evidence to be presented, and whether I like it or not, George Zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty. My personal opinion is that Zimmerman is guilty, but I believe he has the right to a defense, etc. and I want him to have that without interference from exaggerated stories in the media, etc.

Now, having said that...if a 911 operator told me to quit following someone, I would QUIT following that person!

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 04:01 PM

16. No positive of either...

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 04:02 PM

17. He's floated multiple accounts

They can't all be true.

1. He stepped out of his car to read a street sign and got jumped from behind.

2. He followed Martin a ways, gave up and got jumped while retreating to his vehicle.

3. Martin confronted him verbally. "You got a problem? Now you do! You are going to die tonight. You are going to die right now!"

I wonder if he's going to use one of these as the basis of his defense or will he come up with a new one?

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Response to pokerfan (Reply #17)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 05:23 PM

49. Add that to the Zimmerman family lies

like Trayvon approaching the car and threatening little Georgie.

I think they're all concoctions, and that there was no fight at all. GZ's clothing, and the lack of any soiling, smudges or blood 35 minutes after the shooting speaks volumes.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 04:03 PM

18. I'm certain that Zimmerman shot Trayvon...

The point of the trial is to illuminate the circumstances.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 04:04 PM

19. I'm sick of this topic and I am perfectly content with waiting for the jury to decide the verdict.

Hopefully soon, because I'm really bored of this after so many weeks.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 04:04 PM

20. I'm certain the police fucked up and there should be a trial. after that.........

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 04:09 PM

23. Depends...

From the aspect of my own moral compass, he is guilty, not a doubt in my mind. From an actual legal stand point... I am not certain I understand the law as it is written well enough to decide... I am not very good at legalese.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 04:10 PM

24. I'm positive there's enough to charge him with a crime

proving it up is another story. But the cops shouldn't have done the defense attorney's job in the first place.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 04:11 PM

25. Am I 100% sure Zimmerman needed to use deadly lethal force?

 

No I am not. Just showing a gun could have been enough of a defense to get Trayvon running. I want to hear more at trial about whether he needed to use deadly force.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 04:13 PM

26. I believe that Zimmerman hunted Trayvon just as a hunter tracks down a deer. n/t

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Response to RebelOne (Reply #26)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 04:15 PM

28. So that whole "innocent until proven guilty" just doesn't apply?

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Response to Common Sense Party (Reply #28)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 04:18 PM

31. Since Zimmy admitted he killed Trayvon, is he still "innocent until proven guilty"?

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #31)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 04:23 PM

35. Innocent of murder? Well, yes, until proven otherwise.

All murders are killings, but not all killings are murders.

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Response to Common Sense Party (Reply #35)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 04:27 PM

36. He is guilty of killing Trayvon. Even before jury rules it.

So even if he confessed, he is still innocent until the jury rules guilty? Maybe in legalese. But in reality, he IS guilty of killing Trayvon.

I didn't say "murder".

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #36)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 04:36 PM

41. I realize you didn't. That was the whole point.

There can be a difference. Killing someone in self-defense is not a crime. We don't know if that's what happened here, that's what the jury will decide.

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Response to Common Sense Party (Reply #41)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 05:26 PM

52. Self-defense went out the window when GZ initiated the confrontation

Even Jeb Bush has stated that the SYG law did not apply to GZ, and called for him to be arrested.

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Response to Boabab (Reply #52)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 09:15 PM

61. IF Zimmerman initiated the PHYSICAL confrontation, you would be right.

But merely speaking to someone is not an assault. That's his version of what happened. The jury will have to decide if they buy it.

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Response to Common Sense Party (Reply #61)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 12:38 AM

70. People being stalked have no right to do anything physical until it happens to them? Huh.

Who'd'a thought.

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #70)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 01:00 AM

75. So you believe in pre-emptive strikes? Huh.

Who'da thought.

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Response to Common Sense Party (Reply #75)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 11:44 AM

80. You stalk me. I push you. You shoot me. Gotcha. Thanks for clarifying what you believe is good.

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #80)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 04:49 PM

95. That's great that you know EXACTLY what happened that night. You were there, I take it?

If not, then YOU DON'T KNOW. You don't KNOW that Zimmerman was "stalking." You don't KNOW that Trayvon pushed. And you don't KNOW what may or may not ave happened that prompted Zimmerman to shoot.

You can keep PRETENDING that you know, but you won't ever KNOW.

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Response to Common Sense Party (Reply #95)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 05:22 PM

96. Good grief. I wasn't talking ONLY about Zimmy/Trayvon and neither were you...

You: "merely speaking to someone is not an assault".
Meeople being stalked have no right to do anything physical until it happens to them?
You: "So you believe in pre-emptive strikes?"
Me: You stalk me. I push you. You shoot me.

See. Not talking just about Zimmy. I "won't ever KNOW" what happened?

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #96)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 05:32 PM

97. I actually WAS speaking about Zimmerman.

I'm not sure what you were speaking about. If I misunderstood you, I apologize.

And no, we won't know exactly what happened. We'll know what some witnesses heard and saw--mostly after the fact. We'll hear what Zimmerman's version was. And we'll know what the jury eventually decides. But we won't KNOW exactly who did what to whom and why.

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #70)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 08:59 AM

109. They do have a right to protect themselves

As any CCW class will teach you.

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Response to Common Sense Party (Reply #61)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 12:45 AM

72. Can you prove he was merely speaking to the boy?

What if he was waving his gun around from the start?

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Response to vaberella (Reply #72)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 12:58 AM

74. I cannot PROVE anything, and neither can you. We weren't there.

The jury is going to decide what happened and what culpability Zimmerman bears.

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Response to Common Sense Party (Reply #61)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 08:53 AM

108. Speaking to someone very much can be considered assault

As can be following someone and confronting someone. Checking state statutes, or taking a good self defense or CCW class will prove that.

Assault generally means a threat of violence or an intent of violence, as inferred by the victim. If you are following me and I turn and tell you to stop, and you disregard me and continue to aggressive pursue me, I have a legal right to protect myself.

Also, under Florida's SYG Law, Trayvon was standing his ground even IF he turned and attacked Zimmerman when Zimmerman was following him and telling him to stop.

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Response to Common Sense Party (Reply #28)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 12:11 PM

82. how does an individual's opinion, which carries zero legal weight and zero legal consequence...?

precisely how does an individual's opinion, which carries zero legal weight and zero legal consequence, apply to the legal definition of the guilt or innocence of the person indicted of which, the phrase "innocent until proven guilty" directly implies?

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #82)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 01:09 PM

86. I just think we should also presume people are innocent until proven guilty

rather than thinking we can peer into their hearts--not knowing even a fraction of the facts--and judge that a person hunted another down like an animal.

But feel free to cast the first stone, if you like. Or, in this case, the 31,298,863rd stone.

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Response to Common Sense Party (Reply #86)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 01:20 PM

89. I don't believe that voicing an honest and sincere opinion is casting stone...

I don't believe that voicing an honest and sincere opinion is casting stone; however I do realize the melodramatic impact "casting a stone" give an otherwise useless sentiment.

I also don't think that open discussions, weighing available bits of information and evidence is the same as "peering into their hearts". But again, I realize the dramatic effect you may need to put words into the mouth of other people (which seems almost, if not as egregious, as "peering into their hearts..."). As a matter of fact, they seem like two wholly separate concepts, conflated only to better validate your own opinions.

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Response to Common Sense Party (Reply #86)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 01:32 PM

93. I think YOU can do what you want, but you have one hell of a nerve telling the rest of us what "we"

must do.

You stick to your own knitting. Tossing around opinions is not casting the first stone. Your hyperbolic overly dramatic efforts to shut down any conversation on this topic, repeatedly, is NOTED.

Here's a suggestion for you--if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Use the HIDE THREAD feature that Skinner has provided so that you won't have to be poutraged by any suggestion that a man with a gun and a history of violent conduct killed a kid with candy and a drink, walking home from the store.

Stone casting, my ass.

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Response to MADem (Reply #93)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 04:06 PM

94. "hyperbolic overly dramatic" ... you just summed up your response

Complete with NOTED in all caps, and the condescending use of "poutrage" and sticking to my knitting.

How cute.

Have fun slinging.

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Response to Common Sense Party (Reply #28)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 01:29 PM

92. You're not talking to a juror. We don't have to be impartial here.

We can "opine" all the live long day, without consequences. We aren't constrained by any deliberative guidance from the bench.

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Response to Common Sense Party (Reply #28)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 09:21 AM

112. It's a presumption of innocence which a legal right of the accused

It holds no sway over normal thinking folks. We're not in a courtroom.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 04:14 PM

27. Zimmerman thinks he's guilty.

That's why he stopped cooperating with his attorneys and has gone into hiding.

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Response to randome (Reply #27)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 04:23 PM

34. If he called the prosecutor then that to me is a sign of guilt.

 

He thinks he needs to persuade the prosecutor on charges against him. I don't believe he called Hannity, and I have doubts about a call to the prosecutor too.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 04:16 PM

29. I am 100% positive that

he didn't need to kill that boy.

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Response to BootinUp (Reply #29)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 04:46 PM

45. If Zimmerman hadn't been out racially profiling, Trayvon would have gotten home with his skittles

Zimmerman started the altercation by confronting Trayvon.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 04:17 PM

30. 100% certain that he committed a crime, several in fact.

 

I am also 100% certain that his commission of those crimes resulted the death of an innocent young man. I am also 100% certain that the victim was black and in an infamously racist town in a blatantly racist state and am therefore far from certain that anything resembling justice will be done in this case.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 04:19 PM

32. I am positive that he shot Trayvon...

and would certainly like to hear his side of what happened.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 04:21 PM

33. He certainly did wrong

that resulted in the loss of life. Was that wrong illegal and can he be prosecuted for it? Wait and see. It would appear that Mr. Zimmerman already knows what he did ant the consequences of his actions.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 04:31 PM

38. I can't claim to be certain of what happened; that's what a trial is for.

He should be arrested and charged with manslaughter; let the trial determine his guilt or innocence before a jury based on a presentation of the evidence.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 04:31 PM

39. That's freepers for you

They are always 100% certain. The more certain they can sound, the truer something is. That makes it easy to know what is going on. No need to investigate and figure anything complicated out. Freepers hate anything left up in the air.

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Response to treestar (Reply #39)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 04:37 PM

42. Ummm...look around here.

There are many people who are 100% certain of what happened that night between Zimmerman and Martin.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 04:31 PM

40. i think it will really suck

if the man can't get a fair trial by a jury of his peers because he was already tried by the media and
the main stream media sheeple. not saying he is guilty but wouldnt it be really shitty if a guilty man
got off because of it.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 04:41 PM

43. We know for sure that he shot the kid.

 

That isn't in dispute at all. What we really don't know is why he did it and whether it was justified. The known evidence suggests that it was not. I'd like to hear everything but right now it seems he is at least guilty of manslaughter.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 04:44 PM

44. Depends on what he's charged with.

I don't think he's guilty of 1st degree murder and with the grand jury not involved, he's not going to be charged with that crime.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 05:17 PM

47. 75 % sure he's guilty (even under that fucked-up Florida law). 100% sure he should be arrested ...

and charged.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 05:20 PM

48. With his past violence in mind, I think it was 2nd Degree Murder

"These assholes...they always get away."

Z decided not to let "that one" get away. Trayvon cried for help, was probably told to STFU, and Z shot him in cold blood when he didn't. Lock him up and throw away the key!

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 05:25 PM

50. FR is certain he's innocent?

Then he's almost assuredly guilty. They're wrong about everything.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #50)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 05:35 PM

54. Not all freepers are.

A few of them are using logic instead of knee-jerk reactions based on race and/or the 2nd amendment.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 05:26 PM

51. No reasonable doubt in my mind, except whether they can find 12 jurors to convict him in Florida.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 05:27 PM

53. I'm certain he stalked and shot an unarmed teenager who went to buy candy.

And I'm certain he should have been arrested for it based on what the witnesses have said. I'm certain he should be charged and have his day in court.

I'm certain I could sit on a jury and render a fair verdict based on the evidence presented. I would have voted not guilty for OJ and I'm white.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 06:02 PM

55. I think the media is not the place to hold a "trial"

I think the publicity of the case was very helpful in raising awareness of the case so that an independent prosecutor would be attached to the case, whether state or federal. The media served a crucial role in that respect.

Having been involved in criminal cases, I think it's impossible or near impossible for the facts to be presented publicly in a way that's complete.

I hope that the evidence is presented in its entirety to a court with a fair jury and a zealous prosecutor. I hope that Zimmerman has a good attorney.

If all of that is done, I hope the final outcome is accepted by all concerned.

Edited to add: I don't feel like I could possibly have a fully informed opinion at this point.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 09:03 PM

57. Did his actions result in a death? Yes.

Do any of us know what happened?
No.
We have several facts about what happened prior to the death and after the death,
but as to the actual seconds in which it happened, we don't know anything really.

We may never really know exactly what occurred but one thing is
certain, there is a VERY good chance that Zimmerman will be found guilty
of murder, whether second degree or manslaughter.

I've wondered if a lie detector test would reveal anything more-

What I want to see is further investigation of the Sanford police and their
actions on that tragic night.

BH

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 09:06 PM

58. Rule 1. If the alibi keeps changing, somebody lying.

That alone makes me suspicious.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 09:06 PM

59. from what we know, it is pretty clear that the vigilantie is guilty of murder

 

even if they found a weapon on Trayvon, he didn't instigate the confrontation, Zim did.

Trayvon, the VICTIM, wasn't doing anything wrong, his killer needs to pay for his mistake, period

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 09:07 PM

60. I'm positive he killed Trayvon.

I'm not positive he committed a crime. It's my very strong inclination to believe that he did...but I don't have all the evicence, and I am not sufficiently informed about the specifics of applicable Florida law. I'd be making a huge stretch to say "he's guilty of murder."

This is why we have investigations and trials...

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 09:31 PM

62. We don't have the details yet.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 09:55 PM

64. Important evidence has not yet been presented

The coroner's report, which will almost certainly indicate the bullet's trajectory and possibly the approximate distance the gun was fired from, is probably going to be the evidence that determines the jury's decision.

If the report indicates that the bullet entered/passed through Martin's body at close range (powder burns and/or forensic evidence consistent with a contact wound AND in manner which suggests Martin was on top of Zimmerman, then that and evidence of injuries to the back of Zimmerman's head and the jury will probably return a not guilty verdict.

The other important piece of evidence will be if the there are medical reports showing injuries to the back of Zimmerman's head. And CCTV video in poor light, does NOT prove that there was no injury.

The two biggest questions that will need to be answered during the trial are: Who initiated the physical confrontation and will a reasonable person, in this case the jury, believe that Zimmerman was in fear of grave bodily harm or death.

I will not make a judgment on this case based on media reporting and 30 second sound bytes by people more interested in getting good ratings then what may or may not have happened.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 11:35 PM

66. I am absolutely 100% positive that

He is either guilty or innocent.

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Response to hootinholler (Reply #66)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 11:39 PM

68. Funny.

I guess, technically speaking, that is what I asked!

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 11:38 PM

67. Neither positive nor negative - this is for a court to decide

 

However, the evidence we do have, is overwhelmingly convincing that it was murder one

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 12:42 AM

71. I am certain that Trayvon was the victim of malicious intent.

But Zimmerman's story keeps changing so the 'HOW' is hard to prove.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 12:46 AM

73. I am 100% certain that he stalked Trayvon and that resulted in his death. nt

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 01:05 AM

76. I'm 100% certain I know nothing beyond what the flappy-armed media has screamed at me.

My guess is that Zimmerman is a over-zealous police wannabe who created a situation that got out of hand and another person ended up being killed. Until there is a trial, my previous statement is just speculation supported by my biases.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 01:23 AM

78. I'm 100% certain that much of what is written above is wrong.

There are too many assertions being made that aren't backed with the actual evidence we have available at this time.

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Response to SlipperySlope (Reply #78)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 01:32 AM

79. problem is we don't know anything.

Hannity keep saying that there are at least two eyewitnesses that confirm Zimmerman's version of story, but there is another eyewitness says otherwise. All the prosecutor has to do is to prove that the screaming voice on the 911 call was Trayvon's. If she could convince a jury, then Zimmerman will be convicted, imho.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 11:55 AM

81. 99 percent sure he's guilty on multiple crimes, barring some new facts being revealed

75 percent sure the cops obstructed/tainted/suppressed the investigation, whether through indifference, incompetence or plain ol' racism...

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 12:12 PM

83. I'm certain that what he did was morally wrong and foolish, and that Trayvon should not have died

 

I don't know if there will be a conviction.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 01:02 PM

85. I am, for all practical purposes, certain he shot and killed an unarmed juvenile.

I am, for all practical purposes, certain he shot and killed an unarmed juvenile. As to my certainty re: his guilt or innocence of 2nd degree murder, I'd merely be entertaining conjecture.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 01:11 PM

87. Not certain of anything. Will be anxious to see trial. nt

 

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 01:18 PM

88. After the Duke University incident, I never know anything

I know Zimmerman killed Treyvon and that Treyvon was unarmed. Was it manslaughter, 2nd degree murder, or something else? I do not know. I won't speculate until all the evidence is presented in court.

On the one hand, the outrage enabled Zimmerman to be arrested and charged. This is a very good thing for justice in America. I'm glad people got angry.

On the other, such a political and media frenzy is surrounding this, that I'm going to hang back and see all the facts before thinking about guilt or innocence. That Duke incident proved that no how much we "know", no matter how certain we are of what is in someone's heart or their motives or even the facts of the case, we do not know anything until all the information involves sees the light of day.

It's good that we're talking about racial issues and Being Black in America. That is conversation that is never unworthy. But I cannot join anyone in "knowing" for certain everything there is to know about what happened.

Now that Zimmerman is in jail and awaiting trial, we need to wait for the full facts and ensure that justice is done for Treyvon.

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Response to Prism (Reply #88)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 07:59 PM

100. With all due respect...

I am so sick and tired of people using the Duke Lacrosse case to point out instances of prosecution misconduct. You mention racial issues and Being Black in America yet the case you cite, the case that helped you come to understand the inequalities in the justice system, was a case of white men being railroaded on the word of a black stripper. As if judicial unfairness wasn't a common occurrence before then. You probably just became "aware" because the victims were clean cut white kids. It's getting to the point that it's insulting. Do you even know the history of injustices and the law in this country? Just Google the Innocence Project and see how many Black & Brown men were railroaded by the justice system way, way before the Duke players were even in diapers. SO you came to understanding because of the Duke lacrosse players. Well Bless your heart.

I hope Zimmerman gets a fair trial and is not judged unfairly. And believe me, that's a hell of a lot more compassion and objectivity than he gave Trayvon. But your post is a glaring example of why there is this disconnect between the races in this country. You argue for a fair trial abused upon your enlightenment of of the justice system because of the Duke lacrosse case.

And we Black folks see the wife of Sean Bell and the parents of Trayvon connect and mourn on a level that obviously you can't comprehend. And we see that the more things change, the more we achieve milestones like a Black President, the more things stay the same. Our kids are nothing but gutter trash who aren't even worthy of at least a half assed police investigation.

You want racial understanding? Do some homework about injustice outside of the Duke Lacrosse case and discover that it reaches deep into Black souls across a river that obviously you can't comprehend.

Bless your little compassionate heart

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Response to BronxBoy (Reply #100)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 09:18 PM

104. You've misread the reference

My reference to Duke has nothing to do with the inequalities in the system or prosecutorial misconduct. If anything, those Duke boys were only saved because of their racial and wealth privileges. Just about anyone else would've been railroaded straight to prison, and plenty of people are every single day in this country.

My reference has to do with how Americans judge guilt or innocence in high profile cases that are heavily politicized due to heavy media and pundit exposure. Looking at this case right now, there are a lot of "facts" floating around the media that people "know" about this case. I've done my own reading, and my impression is that some of these known facts may prove untrue or that they are based on instinct and speculation. Once a case is politicized to the extent that it becomes a kind of ideological Rorschach test, it's my preference to wait for evidence in court before forming a strong opinion about guilt or innocence.

Remember, the OP asked what we knew for certain, and I have no idea for certain. I have an impression, that it was at least manslaughter, but I don't know. And with a case throwing off as much heat as this one, the one thing I am certain of is that I'm not in a position to really know what happened that night and don't have enough evidence to judge.

My reference to Duke has to do with how the media and ideologues behave - not with how the judicial system treats people unfairly. It does, but the Duke students weren't poster boys for that. They had gross advantages your average wrongfully prosecuted individual does not.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 01:22 PM

90. The man with the gun is alive. The kid with the candy is dead.

The man with the gun was told by a police dispatcher to stay put and he didn't.

I can connect dots as well as the next person.

If Trayvon Martin had a gun and there was a gunfight at the OK Gated Community, there would quite possibly be a question in my mind as to the extent of culpability.

As it stands, I've never seen anyone overpower a person with a gun using candy and iced tea.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 05:34 PM

98. I'm pretty sure he is guilty..

... but it is up to a jury to decide that. I will accept their verdict even knowing that juries are not always right.

ALL MOST OF US EVER WANTED WAS THAT THIS WAS HEARD BY A JURY AND NOT SUMMARILY DISMISSED BY A CORRUPT POLICE DEPARTMENT.

I wish some of you would get that through your thick heads.

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Response to sendero (Reply #98)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 05:37 PM

99. Have you had false accusations made against you regarding your Zimmerman desires? nt

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Response to ZombieHorde (Reply #99)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 08:20 PM

101. There have been several..

... threads accusing DU of just wanting a summary execution.

It's mostly straw-man nonsense from people whose motivations are suspect IMHO.

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Response to sendero (Reply #101)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 10:11 PM

105. That can annoy me as well.

It annoys me when it happens to me, and when I accidentally do it to others.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 08:36 PM

102. 100% sure he killed a black juvenile

wearing a hoodie because he didn't like his looks. 100% it was unwarranted.

100% sure we will hear an even more bizarre explanation than the ten or so he has already told.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 09:12 PM

103. Outside of court, away from the record, having coffee?

 

I'd say 100%.
Sitting in a jury box, that would sink to zero and I'd start over.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 10:20 PM

106. I presume he is innocent.

I presume everyone is innocent until proven guilty.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Original post)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 09:05 AM

110. He had a gun, he pursued even though instructed to stand down.

So, in pursuit of a black teen while brandishing a hand gun....in my book, that would seem to indicate guilty. Degree of guilt, oh about 100%.

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