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Tue Apr 10, 2012, 08:27 AM

Small example of lovely conversation I had this a.m. with a Libertarian nutjob


Libertarian: “When governments spend more than they have, that’s what happens”

Me: “You’re either out of your mind, or you're choosing voluntary blindness, but let’s assume that were the situation, what’s your solution?”

Libertarian: “You lower your spending!”

Me: “But what about the fact that the mega-wealthy are no longer paying equitable taxes? If you have no revenue or very little revenue, how can you even spend ANYTHING? There's nothing TO spend!”

Libertarian: “Are you kidding me? The rich paying the bulk of the taxes in the U.S. What kind of tax rates would you like them to be paying? Let me ask you something, do you routinely spend more than you make?”

Me: “No, I don’t. I do put funds into my piggy bank. There would be a problem if I didn’t put funds in there, and that’s what’s happened in the U.S. I want them to pay the same rates they were paying before Reagan. Let me explain”

Libertarian interrupted me

Again

And again

And again

Then I went quiet, then Libertarian said, “Fine, go ahead but you’re WRONG, and you won’t listen because you're hard-headed!!”

Me: “Listen up. If you have a parent with children, and that parent works but keeps the money for HIMSELF and doesn’t share it with his children, according to YOU, the solution to that problem, is for the children to eat less and go shoeless, since they’re eating more than the money available for them to eat and wear shoes.

Libertarian: “No, that’s not what I said”

Me: “Oh, it sure as hell is, but you said you’d let me finish!!!!”

Libertarian uttered: “Nuts! You're nuts!” then went into silence and seething anger.

Me: “Corporations and the rich are not paying their fair share in taxes, and you know this for a fact because I've mentioned this before so of course this country's govt has much less funds to pay necessary things with. Also, corporations are selling their foreign-made products to us, products that once were manufactured here, and for which the American workforce got paid for making. That means less revenue to go into our country. So there you have 2 monstrously huge reasons our govt has no funds. It’s NOT that vital, life-giving programs are spending more than this country is making. It’s that the funds that were going into this country HAVE BEEN TAKEN AWAY BY THE RICH AND CORPORATIONS, AND THESE NEED TO BE PUT BACK.

Libertarian: “Can I talk now?"

Me: "NO."

Libertarian: "You want to take money from the rich. It’s always the rich, the rich, corporations, the rich, corporations, blah blah”

Me: “Hey, iIf they’re the ones responsible for the f'd up situation we're in, I’m not going to protect their evil asses like you do.”.

And so it went.

59 replies, 6075 views

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Reply Small example of lovely conversation I had this a.m. with a Libertarian nutjob (Original post)
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 OP
PassingFair Apr 2012 #1
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #2
progressoid Apr 2012 #3
Mimosa Apr 2012 #9
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #11
Raine Apr 2012 #58
HughBeaumont Apr 2012 #4
gratuitous Apr 2012 #5
HughBeaumont Apr 2012 #8
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #30
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #26
coalition_unwilling Apr 2012 #28
Mimosa Apr 2012 #10
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #31
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #12
HughBeaumont Apr 2012 #16
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #18
HughBeaumont Apr 2012 #34
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #41
Javaman Apr 2012 #6
lunasun Apr 2012 #7
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #13
RockaFowler Apr 2012 #14
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #15
RockaFowler Apr 2012 #44
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #45
coalition_unwilling Apr 2012 #32
Locrian Apr 2012 #17
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #19
Locrian Apr 2012 #21
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #29
Swede Apr 2012 #20
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #23
Skidmore Apr 2012 #22
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #24
coalition_unwilling Apr 2012 #35
coalition_unwilling Apr 2012 #25
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #27
smirkymonkey Apr 2012 #42
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #43
proud2BlibKansan Apr 2012 #33
coalition_unwilling Apr 2012 #36
JHB Apr 2012 #38
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #39
JHB Apr 2012 #37
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #40
Ganja Ninja Apr 2012 #46
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #47
Populist_Prole Apr 2012 #48
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #49
Populist_Prole Apr 2012 #50
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #51
Populist_Prole Apr 2012 #52
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #53
Populist_Prole Apr 2012 #57
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #59
SomethingFishy Apr 2012 #54
MissMarple Apr 2012 #55
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #56

Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Original post)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 08:34 AM

1. Excellent work there, Sarah!

"Me: “Listen up. If you have a parent with children, and that parent works but keeps the money for HIMSELF and doesn’t share it with his children, according to YOU, the solution to that problem, is for the children to eat less and go shoeless, since they’re eating more than the money available for them to eat and wear shoes."

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Response to PassingFair (Reply #1)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 08:49 AM

2. Thanks! You'd have thought someone had punched him when I said that nt

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Original post)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 08:58 AM

3. I don't understand their need to defend the rich.

Must be all the RW media brain washing.

(I assume this person wasn't mega-wealthy)

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Response to progressoid (Reply #3)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 11:04 AM

9. Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levine deliver those talking points daily.

Any time I'd clicked on Am radio I'd hear that hogwash.

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Response to progressoid (Reply #3)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 11:21 AM

11. He made 'some' money in the market, but he's by no means rich. His kids are not doing well

financially in this economy, but does he connect the dots? NO, of course, why should he? He's a Republican, they're not here to connect the dots or understand anything.

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Response to progressoid (Reply #3)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 08:12 PM

58. They're under the illusion that one day they'll be as rich as the Kockroach brothers

they actually think the system would allow types like them to get a slice of the pie.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Original post)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 09:00 AM

4. This sounds like every conversation I've had with every Libertarian and Republican ever.

Not only are they serial interruptors and talk for the sake of hearing themselves talk, it just amazes me how steadfastly protective they are of the wealthy and corporations and how insistent they are that lower taxes on the wealthy (or even more hilarious, elimination of them completely) and less money towards social programs is the solution that ails all of our problems.

It also amazes me about libertarians how they insist up and down that "they're not Republicans", yet subscribe to and practically trip over themselves to defend every failed Republican economic policy there is. Paulites are even worse; they want to pretty much eliminate the social safety net instead of merely defund it. Yeah, good luck fending off THAT mob, guys.

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Response to HughBeaumont (Reply #4)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 09:08 AM

5. Not to mention the incessant whining about the plight of the overrich

Yeah, the wealthy should pay more in taxes, because without this system of government, they wouldn't have made that huge pile of money. It should be on them to finance its running, and it should be run for the benefit of far more people than just the wealthy. As it is now, the government is financed by the dwindling middle and lower classes largely for the benefit of the robber barons at the top. There has been a 30-year massive upward transfer of the wealth generated by labor in this country, and it hasn't benefited the citizens because all the wealthy have produced is more greed.

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Response to gratuitous (Reply #5)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 10:58 AM

8. Reminds me of this book, which every American should read.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=538937

Prattle on all you want about "SOSHULISM", Repubs and Libertarians. The only "Soshulism" happening in this country is that which rewards those who least need it, regardless of what kind of job they do. The only "Soshulism" happening in this country is LOSS, while all of the gains are privatized.

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Response to HughBeaumont (Reply #8)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:26 PM

30. The Great Risk Shift. I'd never heard of it. I'll be sure to read it. Thanks! nt

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Response to gratuitous (Reply #5)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:21 PM

26. Exactly! That's another thing I tell these pretend-idiots, that if you get a BENEFIT from something

you have to put some of that benefit back, or go elsewhere and try to get that benefit elsewhere, but don't come trying to get benefits here again by trying to sell products to the people you turned your back on, or trying to get tax deductions, or trying to use lands for free, etc. etc. etc.

They're all a bunch of a-holes.

And yes, the dwindling middle class are the ones supporting this country that the rich, powerful and corps are sucking benefits from.

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Response to gratuitous (Reply #5)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:24 PM

28. Ding, ding, ding. Wish I could rec your post. God did not decree free markets and

 

capitalism when (S)he set the wheels of the universe in motion, a fact the plutocrats, their lackies and lickspittles often conveniently forget.

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Response to HughBeaumont (Reply #4)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 11:12 AM

10. Most of the self-described libertarians are in fact rightwing Republicans

Every now and then I used to visit a couple of boards where most of the males posting claimed to be 'libertarians'. Having leaned that way when I was young I know libertarian philosophy.

You can tell when a self-described libertarian is really a rightwinger by their views on abortion. That's where they can't keep up the pretense.

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Response to Mimosa (Reply #10)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:27 PM

31. Exactly. I have never considered a Libertarian to be anything BUT a Republican smoking a joint nt

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Response to HughBeaumont (Reply #4)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 11:23 AM

12. You're right. Libertarians ARE Republicans. I think they just don't like to be SEEN as GOPers, but

they share every belief with them, except perhaps sex, drugs and rock 'n roll.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #12)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 11:47 AM

16. Libertarians = Republicans - Teh Jesus + Legal Weed + Hawt Capitalist Chix.



Anti-Government wimmins on CNBC kick Soshulism's ass and give Penn Jillette happy feelings in pants.

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Response to HughBeaumont (Reply #16)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:00 PM

18. Who is that? nt

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #18)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:31 PM

34. Michelle Caruso-Cabrera, a particularly loathsome CNBC joker.

Oh, yeah, she's also an author:



I mean, THAT's some choots-pah, isn't it? Who the hell names their book "You KNOW I'm Right"?? "I'm the greatest bastard in this room! BOW to my wisdumb!"

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Response to HughBeaumont (Reply #34)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:59 PM

41. Another right wing freakazoid? I just looked her up...

Her father is wealthy, her mother immigrated from Cuba very early on, so she was probably from a highly influential family in Cuba and hot-tailed it out of there. Many of the Cubans that left early had money in the U.S.

She's just another a-hole, and makes mucho $ being one.

I learned many years ago that anyone who is not a complete doofus can make a lot of money by offering to suck right wing ass. She's one of those who made it that way.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Original post)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 09:17 AM

6. you have more patience that I do...

when ever I heard a libertarian speak, I walk away. there is no curing stupid.

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Response to Javaman (Reply #6)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 10:50 AM

7. Me too!!! Why bother? Plus so many are near violent you never know but even the most benign

stupid ones are headache forming

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Response to Javaman (Reply #6)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 11:26 AM

13. I don't have more patience. I just have more of a desire to tear their arguments to shreds -

it's so easy. I also enjoy it when they get angry because their argument has been proved to be illogical and just downright stupid and evil.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Original post)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 11:33 AM

14. My conversation was similar

And my Libertarian is a cousin. Of course he started using the "You are so brainwashed" line to me. He also called me a Hitler Jew. Didn't go over too well with my Father. I also let his Mother know what a filthy mouth her little nincampoop has. It's really all they know - dirty comebacks with no substance. Ron Paul is the end-all - why?? He's out of the mainstream. Look you moron - Ron Paul has been in the government for 30 years. He is so far in the mainstream he is the mainstream!!!

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Response to RockaFowler (Reply #14)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 11:39 AM

15. Oh how pretty that is! "A Hitler Jew." Did you tell him to shut his filthy piehole? nt

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #15)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 02:27 PM

44. I blasted him for it

He then back-tracked and said that there were Jews that were for Hitler. Thus comparing President Obama to Hitler. Then his idiot brother got into the conversation and called me a sheep. I guess anyone who doesn't believe in Ron Paul's BS is a sheep. I liked the 2 of them better when they wet their pants when they were babies. At least then they didn't talk and upset their older wiser cousin.

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Response to RockaFowler (Reply #44)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 02:33 PM

45. I guess they grew up and got stupid. nt

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Response to RockaFowler (Reply #14)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:29 PM

32. What, pray tell, is a "Hitler Jew"??? Is that akin to a "Marx Capitalist"? - n/t

 

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Original post)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 11:58 AM

17. they live in a fantasy world

Where the "business man" (ie what they think of themselves) is the hero. Because it MUST be so: 'hard work' = success and if you dont have success you obviously didnt work hard enough.

Never mind that a lot of what the mega corporations and wall street crooks got there (and more importantly STAY there) by cheating and gaming the system.

They refuse to see that they are being bent over and screwed. They cant face the fact that they have more in common with the person on welfare or making dirt (ie in their minds the LOSERS) than the 'rich elite' (WINNERS) that they fancy themselves to be a part of.


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Response to Locrian (Reply #17)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:01 PM

19. Oh, you betcha! In their philosophy, the rich can do no wrong. nt

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #19)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:03 PM

21. plus

It probably didn't help that he made even a little bit of money in the market. So he basically gambled, did no "real" work, and made a few bucks and now feels like he's JP Morgan.

A little bit of ego is all that it takes....

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Response to Locrian (Reply #21)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:25 PM

29. It's pathetic how f'd up a view of themselves and of people they have. nt

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Original post)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:03 PM

20. I posted this toon yesterday,but it is apt.

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Response to Swede (Reply #20)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:14 PM

23. That's exactly what Libertarians and Repukes would like us to think is a solution. Stupid people,

really.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Original post)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:11 PM

22. Your conversation in totality sounds like my brother's diatribe

last month, only he was presenting both sides as a unified argument and arriving at the conclusion that he's "tired of supporting lazy people" and just wants some of his money back. I got whiplash and a severe headache afterward. His conclusion is also that he hates both parties and will not vote. Period.

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Response to Skidmore (Reply #22)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:16 PM

24. Oh yeah, that's what "independents" like to say: Both sides are the same. BS. Both sides are not

the same even remotely. I think behind the label "independents" are just more right wingnuts.

Libertarians and Republicans are the undisputed destructors of our country. The only people they wish to benefit, and have spent their lives benefiting, are the rich, powerful, and corporations.

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Response to Skidmore (Reply #22)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:31 PM

35. Conversational whiplash and severe headaches - I think all Libertarians

 

need to wear warning labels on their clothes like the warnings on cigarette packages

On a serious note, your brother sounds like a textbook example of Marxist 'alienation' as elaborated on by Gramsci and Marcuse, among others.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Original post)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:21 PM

25. That's 15-20 minutes of your life you'll never get back, but thanks

 

for making the effort. I've given up trying to discuss politics with Repukes and Libertarians. The former invariably lie, almost as if it's part of their internal constitutions and the latter are uniformly caught in mass ahistorical delusions. Unfortunately, the entire country from time to time either buys the lies or gets swept up in the delusions.

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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #25)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:22 PM

27. It's okay. I want them to know I realize they're full of shit, and just plain evil. It doesn't

make them happy to know that, and it does make their face turn red with fury. That gives me a bit of a thrill.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #27)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 01:50 PM

42. I love to see the little veins pop out on the sides of their heads.

It's so exciting - it's like their heads are going to explode or something. It gets kind of gross though when they get spitting mad and start slobbering all over everything.

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Response to smirkymonkey (Reply #42)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 02:20 PM

43. Ew. That's a little gross to watch, yes. But it's so much fun smacking the heck

out of their stupidity!

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Original post)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:30 PM

33. We couldn't have fought and won World War II

if we had had a constitutional amendment calling for a balanced budget.

That factoid usually shuts up the goofy libertarians I know.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #33)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:34 PM

36. Actually, the truly hard-core Libertarian nutjobs will insist that we should

 

not have fought in World War II and that we got suckered into it by Churchill, et. al.

It's these ahistorical delusions they manifest that have caused me to cease and desist in any attempts at political discourse with any of those whack-jobs.

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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #36)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:46 PM

38. When you have someone like that, the only reason for continuing...

...is to play to the audience, if there is one. To make him look like the jackass he is in front of everybody there.
They can be reached.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #33)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:50 PM

39. True. nt

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Original post)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:43 PM

37. I try to point out that I don't "want to take money from the rich"...

...(well, some, but that's not the main thing), what I want is for people who are already wealthy to not redistribute wealth into their own pockets as much. To simply slow down how fast they get more wealthy and pay their people the difference.

Or, propose changing tax rates ranging from 10% to 81%, increasing over 24 brackets. And after the apoplectic response, note that that is 10% lower than what we actually had in the 1950s. If the words "socialist" or "communist" were involved, ask him what the Soviets were, since apparently we were the commies back then.

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Response to JHB (Reply #37)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:52 PM

40. You bring up a great point. Libertarians and Repukes use the term, "Commie" on anyone that points

out the fallacies in the right wing philosophy. That is what a "Commie" really is to them. It has nothing to do with Communism, but boy, do they use the term.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Original post)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 02:47 PM

46. The largest expense this country has is military.

So I guess the Libertarian is in favor of scrapping the Navy and Air Forces and bringing the troops home. Cutting the military by 90% and bringing spending under control must be his fondest wish, or am I wrong about that?

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Response to Ganja Ninja (Reply #46)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 02:54 PM

47. Oh, of course not! They love excess spending on the military, but only certain types of spending

And of course, they don't like military spending that helps former veterans and injured veterans.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Original post)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 03:31 PM

48. Sounds like my father

I see him for a few days maybe once a year and from the first minute he baits me with corporatist BS, like he's been planning and preparing for it point by point like a pushy salesman. Always interrupts just like the one you describe, and uses the tritest lamest talking points as though it was some startling revelation I've never heard of. Within minutes he's literally yelling, and I'm tensed up enough to pop him one in the mouth.

He's worried about getting by as a retiree and thinks the rich can do no wrong ( unless they're rich and liberal ) and literally sees me as his political enemy.

Talk about barking up the wrong tree.

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Response to Populist_Prole (Reply #48)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 04:58 PM

49. Where did he come up with this idea of the rich? Do you know the history behind his thoughts? nt

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #49)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 05:16 PM

50. I think he always wanted to be a big-shot and outwardly successful. He's a big time schmoozer

He ended up doing fairly well for himself and retired comfortably. Materialistic. He seems to think now that he's "made it" that the whole world wants to take what's his. Endlessly watching Fox news and listening to Rush Limbaugh, as well has associating only with other wealthy conservative people has more or less brainwashed him into a super hard-right winger. There's another factor: He was in sales all his life and very heavily read in motivational self-help material. So every conversation is like a "pitch". He thinks his ability to persuade is so absolute, that if one disagrees with him, it's just out of spite. I'm not kidding. He just cannot deal with it if he can't talk you into something.

He was always like this but dealing with the world in his working life kept it in check. Now that he's in a sort of protected bubble, he's absolutely insufferable. Others have noticed this as well. He doesn't care and scoffs at what others think. His friends are rich and politically conservative, but none have his viciousness or stridency.

I feel really bad it's worked out this way, since he's otherwise healthy and has every reason to enjoy life but chooses to be bitter just because politics dominate his every thought.



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Response to Populist_Prole (Reply #50)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 05:19 PM

51. Oh Lordy. That kinda explains it. Have you ever asked him how he wants people to remember him?

Try that. See what he really holds important. That might give him a clue. Or maybe not! He has swallowed the whole capitalism-everything's-for-sale bs propaganda.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #51)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 05:42 PM

52. I should ask that but I'm afraid how he'll answer

I'm sure he'll want to be seen as a benign figure that not enough people really understood. I can tell you with absolute certainty though that he'll believe in the "whole capitalism-everything's-for-sale bs propaganda" till the end. I mean; it was the blueprint that shaped his life.

But that's a good question. If he's intellectually honest enough to answer truthfully, that may well be a wedge that may split his iron heart. Then again, he may sense that and not answer in a way that he thinks gives "the enemy" any aid and comfort. By "enemy", that's anybody the slightest degree to the left of him on any issue.

Damn: I though people should get mellow when they age

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Response to Populist_Prole (Reply #52)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 05:46 PM

53. I think most people get mellow with age, but boy, he's not mellowing much is he?

Yeah, maybe that question will make him ponder.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #53)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 07:54 PM

57. Thanks for the great OP and your input n/t

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Response to Populist_Prole (Reply #57)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 08:43 PM

59. Thanks! nt

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Original post)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 05:52 PM

54. Yeah the rich pay the bulk of taxes...

They make 90% of the money and pay 70% of the taxes so they are over taxed.

Gotta love libertarian logic and math.



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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Original post)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 06:14 PM

55. That went well.

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Response to MissMarple (Reply #55)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 06:56 PM

56. Yes, didn't it?

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