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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsLawsuit claims: On a “mission from God,” George W. planned to “take out” 7 countries in 5 years.
Last edited Sun Jul 27, 2014, 01:08 PM - Edit history (3)
This is according to a lawsuit filed against George Bush and members of his administration by an Iraqi citizen, who is charging them of waging a war of aggression, and citing the Nuremburg trials. The original lawsuit was dismissed with an invitation to refile an amended complaint -- which they did. An evidentiary hearing has been scheduled.
(If you ever start thinking Bush, Clinton, and Obama are all the same, try to picture Clinton or Obama ever having a plan like this. It's impossible.)
http://witnessiraq.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/SAC.pdf
A few weeks later, after the United States had begun its bombing of Afghanistan, General Clark asked this same general, Are we still going to war with Iraq? The general replied, Oh, its worse than that. The general pointed to a memo from the office of Defendant RUMSFELD. This is a memo that describes how were going to take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran.
SNIP
Defendant BUSH called French president Jacques Chirac and attempted to persuade him to support the United States invasion of Iraq. After Chirac informed Defendant BUSH that he needed more concrete evidence that Iraq possessed WMD and that the UN inspectors need more time, Defendant BUSH stated that a U.S. invasion of Iraq is willed by God and that Gog and Magog are at work in the Middle East. Chirac was bewildered over Defendant BUSHs statement.
Second Amended Complaint
http://witnessiraq.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/SAC.pdf
Motion for Evidentiary Hearing
http://witnessiraq.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Motion.pdf
__________________________________
ON EDIT: Hat tip to Malaise, who linked to this in a post below:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/andrewbrown/2009/aug/10/religion-george-bush
<snip>
Here's a story we should all be ashamed of missing: George W Bush attempted to sell the invasion of Iraq to Jacques Chirac using biblical prophecy.
In the winter of 2003, when George Bush and Tony Blair were frantically gathering support for their planned invasion, Professor Thomas Römer, an Old Testament expert at the university of Lausanne, was rung up by the Protestant Federation of France. They asked him to supply them with a summary of the legends surrounding Gog and Magog and as the conversation progressed, he realised that this had originally come, from the highest reaches of the French government.
President Jacques Chirac wanted to know what the hell President Bush had been on about in their last conversation. Bush had then said that when he looked at the Middle East, he saw "Gog and Magog at work" and the biblical prophecies unfolding. But who the hell were Gog and Magog? Neither Chirac nor his office had any idea. But they knew Bush was an evangelical Christian, so they asked the French Federation of Protestants, who in turn asked Professor Römer.
He explained that Gog and Magog were, to use theological jargon, crazy talk. They appear twice in the Old Testament, once as a name, and once in a truly strange prophecy in the book of Ezekiel:
SNIP
Orrex
(63,200 posts)Granted, the sequel was apocalyptically bad, but at least it didn't involve more than a decade of war and bloodshed.
Brigid
(17,621 posts)It was something constructive -- namely, saving the orphanage where they grew up. Dubya, not so much.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Beat me to it!
Response to Brigid (Reply #17)
Name removed Message auto-removed
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)randys1
(16,286 posts)but W and Cheney are free to roam the countryside and make millions
Now, do I have to tell anyone how B R O K E N this country is again?
I dont know how much of the above story is true, but we know some of it is, we know W was on a religious rampage, Cheney was on an economic one, and we had to pay for it while they got stinking rich.
Yet we sit in our dingy apartments, struggling to pay the electric bill while Haliburton and cheney and so on get richer
malaise
(268,913 posts)elleng
(130,864 posts)In addition to video, General Clark wrote about it.
Wesley Clark's new memoir casts more light on the Bush administration's secret strategies for regime change in Iran and elsewhere.
JOE CONASON
http://www.salon.com/2007/10/12/wesley_clark/
freshwest
(53,661 posts)He has not, and will not, do as they want. They will never forgive him for not being their servant...
I made an OP out of my reply here, and just added more information:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017143855#post21
Video leaves impression of Clark verified Obama's proposed action was planned in 2001. That is not correct, as PNAC planned that in 1997.
The video has no date mentioned, making it appear new. I found the same video posted in 2011. It is video of a Democracy Now interview March 2, 2007.
Thus the premise the video channel is promoting is incorrect...
I hope this will enlighten anyone here upset by it as it would be easy to be disturbed by this seeming to be coming out now. But it did not come out 'now.'
I noticed the comments on youtube, and there is more than one copy of this, that people are falling for this error. A quick google of 'Democracy Now, Clark, Seven Countries in Five Years, Syria,' etc. yields a more factual picture than an undated video.
Re: Mog and Magog.
That has been part of American churches for many years. At once it was thought to be symbolic. But in the Reagan era it morphed into definite nation states, one of them being Russia. Soon China was added to the list of nations in their End Times theology.
Various interpretations gave physical locations of many events that were once considered in the spiritual realm and claims associated Communism with Satan, just as the JBS aslways did. This has not stopped.
Bush was said to have quit drugging and drinking after being converted to his present way of thinking by a far right wing fringe pastor in Austin, Texas. This happens to many who have sought relief from life's problems in religion, but can be guided to very dark places by the same.
Religion turned from what I grew up with in Texas to a toxic blend of racism, politics, warmongering and supporters of torture
There were always such elements in churches, but many had gone through a reformation as described here, which I posted on:
http://metamorphosis.democraticunderground.com/10025253521
elleng
(130,864 posts)BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,810 posts)This is good stuff Freshwest. Thanks!
nationalize the fed
(2,169 posts)this is in 2013- he's "changed his tune"
"the look"
Why hasn't Wesley (the commander of the first PNAC war-Kosovo) said anything since? He ought to know all about the goals of PNAC.
(web.archive.org- newamericancentury.org)
People should remember that this clown almost started WW3 with the Russians after the PNAC bombing and invasion.
malaise
(268,913 posts)but what I posted in still true
elleng
(130,864 posts)and he did not 'almost start WW3. He and the Brit in charge had a disagreement, and he cleared his actions with higher-ups.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Search youtube for:
ISIS The Start of World War III - David Icke & Luke Rudkowski
KeiserReport: Guest Luke Rudkowski (24Jun14)
Senator Boxer Confronted on Bilderberg Group by Mark Dice and Luke Rudkowski from We Are Change
Luke Rudkowski and Jim Marrs address Fear Based Propaganda
Alex Jones and Luke Rudkowski Cover Water Fluoridation
Luke Rudkowski and Anthony Antonello talk to Ron Paul at CPAC
"FREEDOM" Adam Kokesh on his release and future
Luke Rudkowski almost buys an Obama tshirt, but doesn't buy the propaganda
Last one is from Adam Kokesh's channel. I'll give him props for calling out Rand Paul here:
Rand Paul Confronted on Mitt Romney Endorsement
There's more with google search, but the first result was pretty disgusting. So you can decide if you want to keep on this track or not. I'm tired of Truther hype.
nilesobek
(1,423 posts)in the Total Information Awareness campaign in the 90s which has led to the current over surveillance situation.
elleng
(130,864 posts)nilesobek
(1,423 posts)I'm getting ready to go off to work again. I don't have a link but Clark was a big promoter in the 90s of the program during the Clinton Administration. I remember watching a video how he explained how vital it was to have total information awareness in order to defend the country. This in no way discounts his testimony, I totally believe him.
Legalequilibrium78
(103 posts)Is a bit clownish and childish on your part. Plus, easy on the WWIII meme. Gen.Clark was and is not an ignoramus about what he was trying to achieve at the height of the Kosovo conflict. You and I will most probably agree to disagree on the actions, merits, methods, and conducts of Operation Allied Force but tone down on any contemptuous and dubious accusations against Gen.Clark's strategic operations on the Kosovo campaign. That charge stems from the hyperbolic and emotional reaction, out of frustration from a very exhausted british officer Lt.Gen.Mike Jackson.
In any case, the matter (Pristina incident) has been discussed here ad nauseum and ad infinitum ,that this will be my final response in reference to that incident. Plus, I do not want to hijack the overall theme of the discussion and veer off into another avenue where nobody wins. You believe what you believe and I believe what I believe and I rest at that.
elleng
(130,864 posts)and welcome again!
mikeysnot
(4,756 posts)Gog and Magog (Hebrew: גּוֹג וּמָגוֹג Gog u-Magog; Arabic: يَأْجُوج وَمَأْجُوج? Yaʾjūj wa-Maʾjūj; Persian: یگوگ و مگوگ? yagug va Magug) are names that appear in the Old Testament, and in numerous subsequent references in other works, notably the Book of Revelation, as well as in the scripture of Islam, the Qur'an. They are sometimes individuals, sometimes peoples, and sometimes geographic regions. Their context can be either genealogical (as Magog in Genesis 10:2) or eschatological and apocalyptic, as in the Book of Ezekiel and Revelation. The passages from Ezekiel and Revelation in particular have attracted attention due to their prophetic descriptions of conflicts said to occur near the "end times".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gog_and_Magog
Louisiana1976
(3,962 posts)LiberalArkie
(15,713 posts)hey believed that if they created the same scenario that appears in Revelations, then God would bring about the rapture. They would go to heaven leaving behind all the pollution they caused, they would leave behind the global warming. And the ones left behind, so what. They just wanted to leave for their little piece of heaven. It sounds crazy, but I have know many who believe it.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Six weeks later, I saw the same officer, and asked: Why havent we attacked Iraq? Are we still going to attack Iraq?
He said: Sir, its worse than that. He said he pulled up a piece of paper off his desk he said: I just got this memo from the Secretary of Defenses office. It says were going to attack and destroy the governments in 7 countries in five years were going to start with Iraq, and then were going to move to Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Iran.
(And, please, let's not get in an argument over the author, but...)
http://www.salon.com/2011/11/26/wes_clark_and_the_neocon_dream/
pnwmom
(108,975 posts)And the fact that the lawsuit actually is being considered seriously in a Federal Court . . . . I'm still afraid it will get dismissed eventually, but at least this woman and her lawyer are trying.
But where's the media attention?
maindawg
(1,151 posts)I hope she is safe.
elleng
(130,864 posts)Here's a piece from conason.
http://www.salon.com/2007/10/12/wesley_clark/
jehop61
(1,735 posts)peacebird
(14,195 posts)malaise
(268,913 posts)It's true
elleng
(130,864 posts)NOT the Onion.
http://www.salon.com/2007/10/12/wesley_clark/
Demeter
(85,373 posts)There's nothing left but the crying and gnashing of teeth.
Brigid
(17,621 posts)Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)He seems carefree to me.
Jerry442
(1,265 posts)Mopar151
(9,979 posts)I thought he'd taken to drinkin' again, cuz of that stupid little smirk, like drunks get when they don't think you can tell. The wierdo painting and vacant affect argue for heavy antipsychotics and more professional case managment.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)calimary
(81,209 posts)Their "religion" is going to get our entire planet killed. I suppose they're eager for that because it means the Celestial Cleaning Man is definitely going to have to return and clean up the mess they made.
Because no one may know the hour - except these assholes.
And no one may force the Hand of God - except these assholes.
elleng
(130,864 posts)Last edited Sun Jul 27, 2014, 02:39 PM - Edit history (1)
but taking out America was included in osama's 'wildest dreams,' and here we are.
and PNAC.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century
Since that faked up election in 2000 this nation has been transformed.
What are they, fans of chaos and suffering?
jwirr
(39,215 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Their influence has been disastrous.
NRaleighLiberal
(60,014 posts)What is unspeakably sad is the support he still receives from many on the right.
Louisiana1976
(3,962 posts)out of office.
NRaleighLiberal
(60,014 posts)You can't "look ahead" if you don't learn from/deal with the past.
lark
(23,091 posts)Hope he gets convicted, more for justice and the optics, though I don't expect it to really have any consequences.
valerief
(53,235 posts)enid602
(8,613 posts)I think bush eas referring to jos daughters.
DhhD
(4,695 posts)valerief
(53,235 posts)DhhD
(4,695 posts)described by the Bible because Hitler was from the areas of Gog and Magog, where there is a confluence of all major religions leading to the Arian religion, of Hitler.
The interpretation of the Bible, by preachers seeking parsonage-ship has lead to lunacy by some followers, in my opinion. Some interpretators have even written their own bible. Does GWB have his own written copy in painting form?
The correct spelling of the religion is Aryan, not Arian.
valerief
(53,235 posts)DhhD
(4,695 posts)This is quite a history lesson. And if one looks into the sources at the end; well that is another long study.
Then how about the works of the other religions? How about the confluent writings of religions?
What is the Aryan religion of Hitler?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_religion
If you compare information from these two links, you can find a confluent cause.
(I my reply, Arian incorrectly spelled. Arian is a cultural word and Aryan is a religion.)
valerief
(53,235 posts)malaise
(268,913 posts)<snip>
Here's a story we should all be ashamed of missing: George W Bush attempted to sell the invasion of Iraq to Jacques Chirac using biblical prophecy.
In the winter of 2003, when George Bush and Tony Blair were frantically gathering support for their planned invasion, Professor Thomas Römer, an Old Testament expert at the university of Lausanne, was rung up by the Protestant Federation of France. They asked him to supply them with a summary of the legends surrounding Gog and Magog and as the conversation progressed, he realised that this had originally come, from the highest reaches of the French government.
President Jacques Chirac wanted to know what the hell President Bush had been on about in their last conversation. Bush had then said that when he looked at the Middle East, he saw "Gog and Magog at work" and the biblical prophecies unfolding. But who the hell were Gog and Magog? Neither Chirac nor his office had any idea. But they knew Bush was an evangelical Christian, so they asked the French Federation of Protestants, who in turn asked Professor Römer.
He explained that Gog and Magog were, to use theological jargon, crazy talk. They appear twice in the Old Testament, once as a name, and once in a truly strange prophecy in the book of Ezekiel:
Who are all these people? The best opinion is that like all Bible prophecy, it is a mixture of wish-fulfilment and contemporary (iron age) politics. Some of it at least seems to refer to the turmoil brought about by Alexander the Great in the fourth century BC (unlike Bush, Alexander actually conquered Afghanistan). But they have been for the last two hundred years the subject of increasingly excited evangelical fanfic, especially in America; in the 70s and 80s, Gog was meant to be Russia. Ronald Reagan seems to have believed that.
But with Reagan, the prophecy appreciation part of his brain functioned quite independently of the part that started wars (there's nothing in the Old Testament about Nicaragua or even Grenada). Bush seems to have taken the threat of Gog and Magog to Israel quite literally, and, if this story can be believed, to have launched a war to stop them.
Can it be believed? We have calls out to Professor Römer and to the Protestant Federation of France. I'll report back if or when they get back to us. But Römer story was published in the Lausanne University magazine in 2007, and looks perfectly credible there. It was repeated independently in a French book of interviews with Chirac this spring. I'm certainly inclined to believe it myself: it makes as much sense as anything else about Bush's policy in Iraq.
lots more at link
pnwmom
(108,975 posts)valerief
(53,235 posts)(Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Rice, etc.) who are also guilty, aren't all gogsmacked, are they?
malaise
(268,913 posts)warmongering neo-cons.
jehop61
(1,735 posts)It's from a 2007 interview with Amy Goodman. The story never went anywhere then, so I'm skeptical. Gen. Clark was running for President at the time. As much as I dislike the Bush administration, I'll wait for more proof other than anonymous hearsay.
pnwmom
(108,975 posts)His word in open court would carry a lot of weight, I would think.
In any case, I hope the case at least continues long enough to get some publicity. I can't imagine SCOTUS ever letting this woman win . . . but the Federal Court hearing it is among the most liberal in the country -- Northern California.
Legalequilibrium78
(103 posts)I am surprised and dismayed that what Gen.Clark asserted has not been looked into, to ascertain the details or plans- behind the alleged memo- I could not help myself but think that if Rumsfeld was a Democrat serving a Democratic President and a credible Flag officer made the same assertion, all hell would break loose as every Republicans in the country would salivate on the chance of not only bringing down a Democratic administration but also prosecuting them (as they should if it were the case) to the maximum degree.
In any case Gen.Wes K. Clark inferred the same claims again on his most recent appearance at Aspen Security Conference. Here is the link below..
elleng
(130,864 posts)and reluctant at that, but General Clark did feel obliged to inform the public about the 'origins' of the war.
He wrote about it.
http://www.salon.com/2007/10/12/wesley_clark/
Welcome to DU.
Legalequilibrium78
(103 posts)Elleng ☺
emsimon33
(3,128 posts)I look forward to more thoughtful postings from you.
Legalequilibrium78
(103 posts)Thank you kindly for the hospitable welcome. ☺
octoberlib
(14,971 posts)Starts at around 8:42
elleng
(130,864 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)HoosierCowboy
(561 posts)...like it's working except for Iran. Any further pressure on Iran will push it closer to Russia. To win, divide your enemies...
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)another example of the rw religions forcing the rest of us to see things their way even if we do not believe in it. Theocracy be damned.
Delmette
(522 posts)Texas, Wyoming and DC judges would have thrown it out in a heart beat. There is also the republican influence on all those judges.
Louisiana1976
(3,962 posts)JHB
(37,158 posts)...in the legalistic justifications for launching the war. Combined with the PNAC-gallery's existing policy recommendations, it pointed squarely at a "take one down, move on to the next" gameplan.
That, and the fact that they were in complete fantasy-land about how it would work.
pnwmom
(108,975 posts)they thought China would be the perpetrator.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)they decided to create their own? Never let a valuable theory go to waste.
lpbk2713
(42,753 posts)Unca Dick would have made Bill Gates look like a street person.
Hoppy
(3,595 posts)They really need some democracy.
mountain grammy
(26,618 posts)Imagine a world where Bush wasn't appointed to the presidency.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Just imagine.
Louisiana1976
(3,962 posts)BuckeyeBrad
(15 posts)Heard this kind of talk too often. I don't know if this is true, but as a former evangelical Christian I do find it believable.
pnwmom
(108,975 posts)I'm glad you're not, too!
LiberalArkie
(15,713 posts)cpwm17
(3,829 posts)Not all of them are oil producing. He also had other motivations other than oil.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)slad was always good for a laugh.
Sid
DhhD
(4,695 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)Menon and Oneal identify three domestic groups responsible for imperialism:
those motivated by the prospect of economic gain; agents of the state- particularly those responsible for national security- who may see imperialism as a means of advancing their own careers; and ideological, religious, or cultural groups who believe that expansion is desirable in principle or even inevitable.
Menon, J. & Oneal, J.R. (1986). Explaining imperialism: The state of the art as reflected in three theories. Polity, 19(2), p. 180.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usa
George Bush revealed the extent of his religious fervor when he met a Palestinian delegation during the Israeli-Palestinian summit at the Egyptian resort of Sharm el-Sheikh, four months after the US-led invasion of Iraq in 2003.
One of the delegates, Nabil Shaath, who was Palestinian foreign minister at the time, said: President Bush said to all of us: I am driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, George, go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan. And I did. And then God would tell me, George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq. And I did. (MacAskill, 2005)
http://www.gq.com/news-politics/newsmakers/200905/donald-rumsfeld-administration-peers-detractors
-ON THE MORNING OF Thursday, April 10, 2003, Donald Rumsfeld's Pentagon prepared a top-secret briefing for George W. Bush. This document, known as the Worldwide Intelligence Update, was a daily digest of critical military intelligence so classified that it circulated among only a handful of Pentagon leaders and the president; Rumsfeld himself often delivered it, by hand, to the White House. The briefing's cover sheet generally featured triumphant, color images from the previous days' war efforts: On this particular morning, it showed the statue of Saddam Hussein being pulled down in Firdos Square, a grateful Iraqi child kissing an American soldier, and jubilant crowds thronging the streets of newly liberated Baghdad. And above these images, and just below the headline SECRETARY OF DEFENSE, was a quote that may have raised some eyebrows. It came from the Bible, from the book of Psalms: "Behold, the eye of the Lord is on those who fear Him To deliver their soul from death."
These cover sheets were the brainchild of Major General Glen Shaffer, a director for intelligence serving both the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the secretary of defense. In the days before the Iraq war, Shaffer's staff had created humorous covers in an attempt to alleviate the stress of preparing for battle. Then, as the body counting began, Shaffer, a Christian, deemed the biblical passages more suitable. Several others in the Pentagon disagreed. At least one Muslim analyst in the building had been greatly offended; others privately worried that if these covers were leaked during a war conducted in an Islamic nation, the falloutas one Pentagon staffer would later say "would be as bad as Abu Ghraib."
But the Pentagon's top officials were apparently unconcerned about the effect such a disclosure might have on the conduct of the war or on Bush's public standing. When colleagues complained to Shaffer that including a religious message with an intelligence briefing seemed inappropriate, Shaffer politely informed them that the practice would continue, because "my seniors"JCS chairman Richard Myers, Rumsfeld, and the commander in chief himselfappreciated the cover pages.
The Scripture-adorned cover sheets illustrate one specific complaint I heard again and again: that Rumsfeld's tacticssuch as playing a religious angle with the presidentoften ran counter to sound decision-making and could, occasionally, compromise the administration's best interests. In the case of the sheets, publicly flaunting his own religious views was not at all the SecDef's style"Rumsfeld was old-fashioned that way," Shaffer acknowledged when I contacted him about the briefingsbut it was decidedly Bush's style, and Rumsfeld likely saw the Scriptures as a way of making a personal connection with a president who frequently quoted the Bible. No matter that, if leaked, the images would reinforce impressions that the administration was embarking on a religious war and could escalate tensions with the Muslim world. The sheets were not Rumsfeld's direct inventionand he could thus distance himself from them, should that prove necessary. (Draper, 2009, p. 1) And He Shall Be Judged
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pnwmom
(108,975 posts)Delmette
(522 posts)NT
pnwmom
(108,975 posts)even if they had a religion.
But GWB was a real loony tune.
Delmette
(522 posts)I'm just so heartbroken and pissed off at the same time.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)the Neo-Con reaction was to start the whole freedom fries, dump the French wine stupidity.
War Horse
(931 posts)"The last thing that region needs is another war", he said, and I found myself in agreement with him for the first time in my life.
And then the "Freedom fries" madness started...
maindawg
(1,151 posts)They just made up a situation and a lie and we all bought it. It does not matter that France has had our back since 1776.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)When we look back it's hard to find an example of anything honest from the Bush Administration.
valerief
(53,235 posts)Many others who didn't protest also didn't buy it.
The war profiteers had their media tell us we needed to want war. That crazypot was stirred and hormones took over. And while the war went on, many, many of us (dare I say most of us?) didn't buy it.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)predicting that the Bush gang would USE 9/11 as an excuse to start a war somewhere. We didn't know about their plans yet, but it was clear they were just itching to start a war.
malaise
(268,913 posts)hence the French ended up with Sarkozy who is now up shit creek on corruption charges.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/10939820/Nicolas-Sarkozy-charged-with-corruption.html
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Why don't we have anti-corruption police? We could use some.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,301 posts)malaise
(268,913 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)Everything specified was followed and tracked by DU.
Worth the read.
http://witnessiraq.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/SAC.pdf
elleng
(130,864 posts)Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)comment about "Gog and Magog." This asshole, the most powerful man in the world, used Bronze Age mythology as inspiration/justification for his planned slaughter. Sickening and, frankly, pathetic.
Belief in the supernatural/magical is fine when it occurs in a vacuum, but it rarely does. It has massive real-life negative consequences for people.
valerief
(53,235 posts)Jerry442
(1,265 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)We agree that it's insane and stupid, but Bush's faith or belief in some interpretation of Revelations was not remotely the reason for the invasion of Iraq in 2003. The pre-history building up to that moment dates back to about 1973. Bush's faith was not at all the reason for the PNAC plan, or their 1998 letter to Clinton, or for the immediate preparations after Coup 2000 (i.e., prior to 9/11) for invasions of both Iraq and Afghanistan, or for Rumsfeld's immediate swivel to Iraq on the day of 9/11 as documented in the release of memos from his deputy.
Bush's beliefs about Gog and Magog are just some magical bullshit with which this regime frontman and aggressor-in-chief can justify a course of action he did not himself devise, one that was already provided for him as his life's mission by people surrounding and managing him. Without them, of course, he would never have even been sitting in that chair.
The Iraq invasion was a group enterprise motivated by a particular, wide-ranging and in fact global geopolitical vision; by MIC business plans set up to profit the various perpetrators; and by the desire to control the second-largest proven oil reserves in the world. There would never have been any chance of it happening if the only factor had been Bush's faith. The latter is a superfluous add-on that was, however, highly useful in winning the support of the mad fundamentalists and self-styled anti-Muslim "infidels" at home.
This needs to be understood, because defeating fundamentalist Christianist politics would change only a small part of the U.S. political dynamics underlying the federal government's constant drive to new wars, new covert interventions, constructions of new enemies, and reactionary and pro-corporate policy stances in all nations (the latter as so effectively documented in the State Department memos released by Wikileaks).
canoeist52
(2,282 posts)ReRe
(10,597 posts)malaise
(268,913 posts)and facilitated the rise of Fundie morons at the highest level of the military.
salin
(48,955 posts)that God spoke to him and told him to attack Afghanistan, Liberate Iraq, and pave the way to establishing a Palestinian state.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2005/10_october/06/bush.shtml
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)It is in no way or fashion the reason for the invasions. Has nothing to do with why he's fronting as "president" as opposed to playing video games in some basement.
C Moon
(12,212 posts)Cheney is still spinning his web of lies trying to create an alternate universe. That guy was given a 2nd chance at life with someone's heart, and he's still a hateful, selfish bastard.
Initech
(100,063 posts)While the republicans are smack talking about impeaching Obama for petty bullshit, Bush and Cheney continue to walk free for war crimes abuses and the MIC continues to rake in trillions.
Louisiana1976
(3,962 posts)MisterP
(23,730 posts)the Anglosphere has a trend of taking eccentric minorities and labeling them the One and Only Way; the Continent has always been a little more sanguine philosophically since like the 13th c.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premillennialism
elleng
(130,864 posts)much too 'creative' for W, imo, but the courts should get into the facts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century
The Project for the New American Century (PNAC) was an American think tank based in Washington, D.C. established in 1997 as a non-profit educational organization founded by William Kristol and Robert Kagan. The PNAC's stated goal is "to promote American global leadership."[1] Fundamental to the PNAC were the view that "American leadership is good both for America and for the world" and support for "a Reaganite policy of military strength and moral clarity."[2][3] With its members in numerous key administrative positions, the PNAC exerted influence on high-level U.S. government officials in the administration of U.S. President George W. Bush and affected the Bush Administration's development of military and foreign policies, especially involving national security and the Iraq War.[4][5]
William Kristol, Co-founder and Chairman[1]
Robert Kagan, Co-founder[1]
Bruce P. Jackson[1]
Ellen Bork, Deputy Director[1]
Gary Schmitt, Senior Fellow[1][51]
Thomas Donnelly, Senior Fellow[1]
Reuel Marc Gerecht, Senior Fellow[1]
Signatories to Statement of Principles[edit]
Elliott Abrams[3]
Gary Bauer[3]
William J. Bennett[3]
John Ellis "Jeb" Bush[3]
Dick Cheney[3]
Eliot A. Cohen[3]
Midge Decter[3]
Paula Dobriansky[3]
Steve Forbes[3]
Aaron Friedberg[3]
Francis Fukuyama[3]
Frank Gaffney[3]
Fred C. Ikle[3]
Donald Kagan[3]
Zalmay Khalilzad[3]
I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby[3]
Norman Podhoretz[3]
J. Danforth Quayle[3]
Peter W. Rodman[3]
Stephen P. Rosen[3]
Henry S. Rowen[3]
Donald Rumsfeld[3]
Vin Weber[3]
George Weigel[3]
Paul Wolfowitz[3]
Cartoonist
(7,315 posts)Join the club
nilesobek
(1,423 posts)I'm not surprised by the Gog and Magog stuff, which is actually an obscure cover by popular televangelists like Pastor Hagee to explain his wild geopolitical theories which always involve certain countries especially Israel.
Gog and Magog, to them, can be any countries opposing them. There are various sermons on which country is Gog or Magog. There's not a general rule to it.
Swore allegiance to a "secret society", but claims Jesus Christ as the biggest influence in his life. Sorry Boy George, theoligical impossibility. Called trying to serve two masters, or hijacking a religion for political purposes. Either way, big no-no's.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)God's Will",.........
The word "sacrifices" comes to mind.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)elleng
(130,864 posts)Some of us were aware of it at the time; unfortunately not enough of us.
He also wrote about it.
http://www.salon.com/2007/10/12/wesley_clark/
defacto7
(13,485 posts)once in a while. I remember when it first became public but then was dropped like a hot rock. It needs to be kept visible as much as possible to remind those who forgot and show those who never knew. It's crazy on a frying pan.
pnwmom
(108,975 posts)It would be amazing if there is an actual trial at the Federal level. Even if we lose, we win -- the publicity would finally bring all this out.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)pnwmom
(108,975 posts)Obviously not.
If the judge lets it go on, then many more millions will hear about the exchange with Chirac, and everything else mentioned in the lawsuit.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)pnwmom
(108,975 posts)And General Clark in a book is not the same as General Clark in court, giving testimony under oath. That would be HUGE.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)indepat
(20,899 posts)up once junior wielded unlimited power.
Delmette
(522 posts)As a Treaty
7 of the United States, the United States Constitution incorporates this principle into its law
8 under Article VI, clause 2, which declares treaties made . . . to be the supreme law of the
9 land.
Will this clause be in effect if TPP is signed?
pnwmom
(108,975 posts)The Wizard
(12,541 posts)as George Bush claimed are usually medicated and sometimes in restraints. We has a brain addled and dangerous person at the helm.
emsimon33
(3,128 posts)for appointing Bush and his legion of Evil!
Skittles
(153,147 posts)can we drug test the people who start senseless wars and crash the economy???
Uncle Joe
(58,349 posts)Thanks for the thread, pnwmom.
Response to pnwmom (Original post)
ann--- This message was self-deleted by its author.
cstanleytech
(26,281 posts)pnwmom
(108,975 posts)who tried to show him the memo, and that person might have to testify too. Their testimony would carry weight even if the memos couldn't be obtained.
I expect that General Clark would be reluctant to name the person, not a 'General,' was it, but someone, a junior officer? working on the 'General staff?' And as the memo was offered to General Clark but he declined to look at it, because it was 'classified,' that would be a problematic evidentiary hurdle, imo.
whereisjustice
(2,941 posts)accountable for their crimes against humanity. Instead we just bailed out another rich, entitled, fraudulent institution with tax pay lives and money. One political party committed the crime, the other political party decided to excuse it and look forward.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)I think it would have started WWIII and resulted in a number of countries we have good relations with the US turning against us. With the seven countries listed in the article plus Afghanistan that would have made eight countries. Given the fact that we struggled to have enough manpower to fight two wars, three or four would have been highly unlikely without a draft of some sort (note: I'm not saying I support one, just making some general assumptions if their plan had gone through). The whole thing would have been a disaster for the US.
raouldukelives
(5,178 posts)If you question the war, if you question the motives, you hate America.
If you launch missiles, fly drones and fill poor people full of lead, your a hero.
Pretty sick to think of all the people who were in the markets and who still are, who profit day in and out from the works of the war machine. That is what drives us into conflicts. The weight of all those investments pressing against our democracy and the soft willed politicians who shift whichever way the money blows. As it continues today and for the future. Every destroyed home, every maimed child and every corpse providing a little extra funds for a sightly more comfortable retirement, a second home or a new car. How they can sleep at night, I'll never know.