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Sun Jul 27, 2014, 11:43 AM

Lawsuit claims: On a “mission from God,” George W. planned to “take out” 7 countries in 5 years.

Last edited Sun Jul 27, 2014, 01:08 PM - Edit history (3)

This is according to a lawsuit filed against George Bush and members of his administration by an Iraqi citizen, who is charging them of waging a war of aggression, and citing the Nuremburg trials. The original lawsuit was dismissed with an invitation to refile an amended complaint -- which they did. An evidentiary hearing has been scheduled.

(If you ever start thinking Bush, Clinton, and Obama are all the same, try to picture Clinton or Obama ever having a plan like this. It's impossible.)

http://witnessiraq.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/SAC.pdf

A few weeks later, after the United States had begun its bombing of Afghanistan, General Clark asked this same general, “Are we still going to war with Iraq?” The general replied, “Oh, it’s worse than that.” The general pointed to a memo from the office of Defendant RUMSFELD. “This is a memo that describes how we’re going to take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran.

SNIP

Defendant BUSH called French president Jacques Chirac and attempted to persuade him to support the United States’ invasion of Iraq. After Chirac informed Defendant BUSH that he needed more concrete evidence that Iraq possessed WMD and that the UN inspectors “need more time,” Defendant BUSH stated that a U.S. invasion of Iraq is “willed by God” and that “Gog and Magog are at work in the Middle East.” Chirac was bewildered over Defendant BUSH’s statement.

Second Amended Complaint

http://witnessiraq.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/SAC.pdf

Motion for Evidentiary Hearing

http://witnessiraq.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Motion.pdf

__________________________________

ON EDIT: Hat tip to Malaise, who linked to this in a post below:


http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/andrewbrown/2009/aug/10/religion-george-bush
<snip>
Here's a story we should all be ashamed of missing: George W Bush attempted to sell the invasion of Iraq to Jacques Chirac using biblical prophecy.

In the winter of 2003, when George Bush and Tony Blair were frantically gathering support for their planned invasion, Professor Thomas Römer, an Old Testament expert at the university of Lausanne, was rung up by the Protestant Federation of France. They asked him to supply them with a summary of the legends surrounding Gog and Magog and as the conversation progressed, he realised that this had originally come, from the highest reaches of the French government.

President Jacques Chirac wanted to know what the hell President Bush had been on about in their last conversation. Bush had then said that when he looked at the Middle East, he saw "Gog and Magog at work" and the biblical prophecies unfolding. But who the hell were Gog and Magog? Neither Chirac nor his office had any idea. But they knew Bush was an evangelical Christian, so they asked the French Federation of Protestants, who in turn asked Professor Römer.

He explained that Gog and Magog were, to use theological jargon, crazy talk. They appear twice in the Old Testament, once as a name, and once in a truly strange prophecy in the book of Ezekiel:

SNIP

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Reply Lawsuit claims: On a “mission from God,” George W. planned to “take out” 7 countries in 5 years. (Original post)
pnwmom Jul 2014 OP
Orrex Jul 2014 #1
Brigid Jul 2014 #17
Enthusiast Jul 2014 #38
Roy Serohz Jul 2014 #142
Name removed Jul 2014 #149
roguevalley Jul 2014 #22
randys1 Jul 2014 #2
malaise Jul 2014 #24
elleng Jul 2014 #30
freshwest Jul 2014 #93
elleng Jul 2014 #111
BlancheSplanchnik Jul 2014 #124
JustAnotherGen Jul 2014 #144
nationalize the fed Jul 2014 #58
malaise Jul 2014 #62
elleng Jul 2014 #72
freshwest Jul 2014 #120
nilesobek Jul 2014 #122
elleng Jul 2014 #130
nilesobek Jul 2014 #140
Legalequilibrium78 Jul 2014 #131
elleng Jul 2014 #141
mikeysnot Jul 2014 #3
Louisiana1976 Jul 2014 #103
LiberalArkie Jul 2014 #119
Fawke Em Jul 2014 #4
pnwmom Jul 2014 #5
maindawg Jul 2014 #57
elleng Jul 2014 #32
jehop61 Jul 2014 #6
peacebird Jul 2014 #8
malaise Jul 2014 #26
elleng Jul 2014 #33
Demeter Jul 2014 #7
Brigid Jul 2014 #20
Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #61
Jerry442 Jul 2014 #67
Mopar151 Jul 2014 #126
Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #127
dixiegrrrrl Jul 2014 #21
calimary Jul 2014 #86
elleng Jul 2014 #36
Enthusiast Jul 2014 #41
jwirr Jul 2014 #90
Enthusiast Jul 2014 #92
NRaleighLiberal Jul 2014 #9
Louisiana1976 Jul 2014 #104
NRaleighLiberal Jul 2014 #105
lark Jul 2014 #10
valerief Jul 2014 #11
enid602 Jul 2014 #12
DhhD Jul 2014 #13
valerief Jul 2014 #14
DhhD Jul 2014 #27
valerief Jul 2014 #37
DhhD Jul 2014 #73
DhhD Jul 2014 #39
valerief Jul 2014 #45
malaise Jul 2014 #29
pnwmom Jul 2014 #35
valerief Jul 2014 #43
malaise Jul 2014 #60
jehop61 Jul 2014 #15
pnwmom Jul 2014 #23
Legalequilibrium78 Jul 2014 #47
elleng Jul 2014 #56
Legalequilibrium78 Jul 2014 #134
emsimon33 Jul 2014 #118
Legalequilibrium78 Jul 2014 #133
octoberlib Jul 2014 #54
elleng Jul 2014 #68
freshwest Jul 2014 #128
HoosierCowboy Jul 2014 #16
Enthusiast Jul 2014 #46
jwirr Jul 2014 #18
Delmette Jul 2014 #87
Louisiana1976 Jul 2014 #106
JHB Jul 2014 #19
pnwmom Jul 2014 #25
Enthusiast Jul 2014 #49
lpbk2713 Jul 2014 #28
Hoppy Jul 2014 #31
mountain grammy Jul 2014 #34
Enthusiast Jul 2014 #50
Louisiana1976 Jul 2014 #108
BuckeyeBrad Jul 2014 #40
pnwmom Jul 2014 #44
LiberalArkie Jul 2014 #53
cpwm17 Jul 2014 #42
SidDithers Jul 2014 #48
DhhD Jul 2014 #75
freshwest Jul 2014 #129
OnyxCollie Jul 2014 #51
pnwmom Jul 2014 #55
Delmette Jul 2014 #89
pnwmom Jul 2014 #98
Delmette Jul 2014 #99
Enthusiast Jul 2014 #52
War Horse Jul 2014 #59
maindawg Jul 2014 #63
Enthusiast Jul 2014 #65
valerief Jul 2014 #69
WinkyDink Jul 2014 #85
sabrina 1 Jul 2014 #135
malaise Jul 2014 #78
Enthusiast Jul 2014 #81
muriel_volestrangler Jul 2014 #107
malaise Jul 2014 #145
cantbeserious Jul 2014 #64
elleng Jul 2014 #80
Arugula Latte Jul 2014 #66
valerief Jul 2014 #70
Jerry442 Jul 2014 #71
JackRiddler Jul 2014 #77
canoeist52 Jul 2014 #109
ReRe Jul 2014 #137
malaise Jul 2014 #146
salin Jul 2014 #121
JackRiddler Jul 2014 #150
C Moon Jul 2014 #74
Initech Jul 2014 #94
Louisiana1976 Jul 2014 #110
MisterP Jul 2014 #76
elleng Jul 2014 #79
Cartoonist Jul 2014 #82
nilesobek Jul 2014 #123
czarjak Jul 2014 #83
WinkyDink Jul 2014 #84
madfloridian Jul 2014 #88
elleng Jul 2014 #114
defacto7 Jul 2014 #91
pnwmom Jul 2014 #100
Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2014 #95
pnwmom Jul 2014 #101
Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2014 #115
pnwmom Jul 2014 #116
Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2014 #117
indepat Jul 2014 #96
Delmette Jul 2014 #97
pnwmom Jul 2014 #102
The Wizard Jul 2014 #112
emsimon33 Jul 2014 #113
Skittles Jul 2014 #125
Uncle Joe Jul 2014 #132
ann--- Jul 2014 #136
cstanleytech Jul 2014 #138
pnwmom Jul 2014 #139
elleng Jul 2014 #143
whereisjustice Jul 2014 #147
davidpdx Jul 2014 #148
raouldukelives Jul 2014 #151

Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 11:46 AM

1. Why couldn't his "mission from God" have been Blues Brothers-related instead?

Granted, the sequel was apocalyptically bad, but at least it didn't involve more than a decade of war and bloodshed.

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Response to Orrex (Reply #1)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 12:34 PM

17. At least when the Blues Brothers were on "a mission from God" . . .

It was something constructive -- namely, saving the orphanage where they grew up. Dubya, not so much.

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Response to Brigid (Reply #17)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 01:11 PM

38. Good observation.

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Response to Brigid (Reply #17)

Mon Jul 28, 2014, 04:32 AM

142. Dang!

 

Beat me to it!

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Response to Brigid (Reply #17)


Response to Orrex (Reply #1)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 12:43 PM

22. he should. air drop the lot in.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 11:47 AM

2. I read the other day a man with termincal cancer will go to prison for growing pot for his pain

but W and Cheney are free to roam the countryside and make millions

Now, do I have to tell anyone how B R O K E N this country is again?





I dont know how much of the above story is true, but we know some of it is, we know W was on a religious rampage, Cheney was on an economic one, and we had to pay for it while they got stinking rich.

Yet we sit in our dingy apartments, struggling to pay the electric bill while Haliburton and cheney and so on get richer

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Response to randys1 (Reply #2)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 12:47 PM

24. It is 100% true



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Response to malaise (Reply #24)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 12:59 PM

30. Yes it is, mal.

In addition to video, General Clark wrote about it.

Wesley Clark's new memoir casts more light on the Bush administration's secret strategies for regime change in Iran and elsewhere.
JOE CONASON

http://www.salon.com/2007/10/12/wesley_clark/

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Response to elleng (Reply #30)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 05:29 PM

93. This is similar to a piece by Clark I posted to clear some things up in the BOG:

Those who seek to make the case that the President is doing a Bush - Cheney PNAC action will fail. He is not their man.

He has not, and will not, do as they want. They will never forgive him for not being their servant...

I made an OP out of my reply here, and just added more information:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017143855#post21

Video leaves impression of Clark verified Obama's proposed action was planned in 2001. That is not correct, as PNAC planned that in 1997.

The video has no date mentioned, making it appear new. I found the same video posted in 2011. It is video of a Democracy Now interview March 2, 2007.

Thus the premise the video channel is promoting is incorrect...

I hope this will enlighten anyone here upset by it as it would be easy to be disturbed by this seeming to be coming out now. But it did not come out 'now.'

I noticed the comments on youtube, and there is more than one copy of this, that people are falling for this error. A quick google of 'Democracy Now, Clark, Seven Countries in Five Years, Syria,' etc. yields a more factual picture than an undated video.


Re: Mog and Magog.

That has been part of American churches for many years. At once it was thought to be symbolic. But in the Reagan era it morphed into definite nation states, one of them being Russia. Soon China was added to the list of nations in their End Times theology.

Various interpretations gave physical locations of many events that were once considered in the spiritual realm and claims associated Communism with Satan, just as the JBS aslways did. This has not stopped.

Bush was said to have quit drugging and drinking after being converted to his present way of thinking by a far right wing fringe pastor in Austin, Texas. This happens to many who have sought relief from life's problems in religion, but can be guided to very dark places by the same.

Religion turned from what I grew up with in Texas to a toxic blend of racism, politics, warmongering and supporters of torture

There were always such elements in churches, but many had gone through a reformation as described here, which I posted on:

http://metamorphosis.democraticunderground.com/10025253521

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Response to freshwest (Reply #93)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 06:51 PM

111. THANKS, fresh.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #93)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 10:04 PM

124. also thanks, fresh. and saving this whole thread. n/t

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Response to freshwest (Reply #93)

Mon Jul 28, 2014, 05:24 AM

144. End of Times Philosophy

This is good stuff Freshwest. Thanks!

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Response to malaise (Reply #24)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 02:00 PM

58. that was then

this is in 2013- he's "changed his tune"



"the look"



Why hasn't Wesley (the commander of the first PNAC war-Kosovo) said anything since? He ought to know all about the goals of PNAC.


(web.archive.org- newamericancentury.org)

People should remember that this clown almost started WW3 with the Russians after the PNAC bombing and invasion.

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Response to nationalize the fed (Reply #58)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 02:04 PM

62. They're all warmongerers

but what I posted in still true

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Response to nationalize the fed (Reply #58)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 02:18 PM

72. General Clark has not changed his tune,



and he did not 'almost start WW3. He and the Brit in charge had a disagreement, and he cleared his actions with higher-ups.

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Response to elleng (Reply #72)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 09:04 PM

120. Consider the source. We all knew about PNAC years ago and know about Luke Rudkowski of '9/11 TRUTH.'

Search youtube for:

ISIS The Start of World War III - David Icke & Luke Rudkowski

KeiserReport: Guest Luke Rudkowski (24Jun14)

Senator Boxer Confronted on Bilderberg Group by Mark Dice and Luke Rudkowski from We Are Change

Luke Rudkowski and Jim Marrs address Fear Based Propaganda

Alex Jones and Luke Rudkowski Cover Water Fluoridation

Luke Rudkowski and Anthony Antonello talk to Ron Paul at CPAC

"FREEDOM" Adam Kokesh on his release and future

Luke Rudkowski almost buys an Obama tshirt, but doesn't buy the propaganda


Last one is from Adam Kokesh's channel. I'll give him props for calling out Rand Paul here:

Rand Paul Confronted on Mitt Romney Endorsement

There's more with google search, but the first result was pretty disgusting. So you can decide if you want to keep on this track or not. I'm tired of Truther hype.


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Response to elleng (Reply #72)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 09:25 PM

122. Lets also not forget Clark's role

in the Total Information Awareness campaign in the 90s which has led to the current over surveillance situation.

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Response to nilesobek (Reply #122)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 10:40 PM

130. What 'role' would that be?

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Response to elleng (Reply #130)

Mon Jul 28, 2014, 02:04 AM

140. I'm sorry I didn't mean to hit and run,

I'm getting ready to go off to work again. I don't have a link but Clark was a big promoter in the 90s of the program during the Clinton Administration. I remember watching a video how he explained how vital it was to have total information awareness in order to defend the country. This in no way discounts his testimony, I totally believe him.

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Response to nationalize the fed (Reply #58)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 11:05 PM

131. Calling Gen.Clark a clown

Is a bit clownish and childish on your part. Plus, easy on the WWIII meme. Gen.Clark was and is not an ignoramus about what he was trying to achieve at the height of the Kosovo conflict. You and I will most probably agree to disagree on the actions, merits, methods, and conducts of Operation Allied Force but tone down on any contemptuous and dubious accusations against Gen.Clark's strategic operations on the Kosovo campaign. That charge stems from the hyperbolic and emotional reaction, out of frustration from a very exhausted british officer Lt.Gen.Mike Jackson.

In any case, the matter (Pristina incident) has been discussed here ad nauseum and ad infinitum ,that this will be my final response in reference to that incident. Plus, I do not want to hijack the overall theme of the discussion and veer off into another avenue where nobody wins. You believe what you believe and I believe what I believe and I rest at that.

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Response to Legalequilibrium78 (Reply #131)

Mon Jul 28, 2014, 04:28 AM

141. Thanks again, Legal,

and welcome again!

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 11:48 AM

3. wow, and people voted for that guy...

Gog and Magog (Hebrew: גּוֹג וּמָגוֹג Gog u-Magog; Arabic: يَأْجُوج وَمَأْجُوج‎ Yaʾjūj wa-Maʾjūj; Persian: یگوگ و مگوگ‎ yagug va Magug) are names that appear in the Old Testament, and in numerous subsequent references in other works, notably the Book of Revelation, as well as in the scripture of Islam, the Qur'an. They are sometimes individuals, sometimes peoples, and sometimes geographic regions. Their context can be either genealogical (as Magog in Genesis 10:2) or eschatological and apocalyptic, as in the Book of Ezekiel and Revelation. The passages from Ezekiel and Revelation in particular have attracted attention due to their prophetic descriptions of conflicts said to occur near the "end times".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gog_and_Magog

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Response to mikeysnot (Reply #3)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 06:21 PM

103. We're lucky he didn't bring about Armageddon.

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Response to Louisiana1976 (Reply #103)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 08:55 PM

119. That was and still their intent.

hey believed that if they created the same scenario that appears in Revelations, then God would bring about the rapture. They would go to heaven leaving behind all the pollution they caused, they would leave behind the global warming. And the ones left behind, so what. They just wanted to leave for their little piece of heaven. It sounds crazy, but I have know many who believe it.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 11:51 AM

4. Not a surprise to Clarkies

Six weeks later, I saw the same officer, and asked: “Why haven’t we attacked Iraq? Are we still going to attack Iraq?”

He said: “Sir, it’s worse than that. He said – he pulled up a piece of paper off his desk – he said: “I just got this memo from the Secretary of Defense’s office. It says we’re going to attack and destroy the governments in 7 countries in five years – we’re going to start with Iraq, and then we’re going to move to Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Iran.”


(And, please, let's not get in an argument over the author, but...)

http://www.salon.com/2011/11/26/wes_clark_and_the_neocon_dream/

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Response to Fawke Em (Reply #4)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 11:55 AM

5. I remembered seeing it before --but not the Gog and Magog quote. Sickening.

And the fact that the lawsuit actually is being considered seriously in a Federal Court . . . . I'm still afraid it will get dismissed eventually, but at least this woman and her lawyer are trying.

But where's the media attention?

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #5)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 01:53 PM

57. She is very brave

I hope she is safe.

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Response to Fawke Em (Reply #4)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 01:02 PM

32. Hi, Fawke.

Here's a piece from conason.

http://www.salon.com/2007/10/12/wesley_clark/

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 11:58 AM

6. From the Onion?

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Response to jehop61 (Reply #6)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 12:05 PM

8. Wash Post, I had not heard the God & Magog bit before, but sadly it does not surprise me

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Response to peacebird (Reply #8)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 12:48 PM

26. That's been posted here several times

It's true

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Response to jehop61 (Reply #6)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 01:02 PM

33. True as it can be,

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 12:04 PM

7. W succeeded beyond his wildest dreams--He took out America.

There's nothing left but the crying and gnashing of teeth.

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Response to Demeter (Reply #7)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 12:37 PM

20. And now he sits around grinning and painting pictures of dogs.

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Response to Brigid (Reply #20)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 02:03 PM

61. Yes, and rides around on that damn bicycle of his..like nothing he did ever went wrong.

He seems carefree to me.

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Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #61)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 02:15 PM

67. The compleat sociopath. nt

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Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #61)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 10:11 PM

126. Has the Thorazine shuffle started to show yet?

I thought he'd taken to drinkin' again, cuz of that stupid little smirk, like drunks get when they don't think you can tell. The wierdo painting and vacant affect argue for heavy antipsychotics and more professional case managment.

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Response to Mopar151 (Reply #126)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 10:17 PM

127. lol, I don't know..with him, how can one be sure about anything. n/t

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Response to Demeter (Reply #7)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 12:42 PM

21. THIS.....

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Reply #21)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 04:34 PM

86. No kidding.

Their "religion" is going to get our entire planet killed. I suppose they're eager for that because it means the Celestial Cleaning Man is definitely going to have to return and clean up the mess they made.

Because no one may know the hour - except these assholes.

And no one may force the Hand of God - except these assholes.

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Response to Demeter (Reply #7)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 01:05 PM

36. More like cheney, rummy, wolfo + others' wildest dreams, I think,

Last edited Sun Jul 27, 2014, 02:39 PM - Edit history (1)

but taking out America was included in osama's 'wildest dreams,' and here we are.

and PNAC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century

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Response to Demeter (Reply #7)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 01:17 PM

41. Yup.

He took out America.

Since that faked up election in 2000 this nation has been transformed.

What are they, fans of chaos and suffering?

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Response to Enthusiast (Reply #41)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 05:20 PM

90. Disaster capitalists.

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Response to jwirr (Reply #90)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 05:26 PM

92. That would make sense.

Their influence has been disastrous.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 12:07 PM

9. His only success in life has been utter failure and ruination of so much...the effects seem endless.

What is unspeakably sad is the support he still receives from many on the right.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Reply #9)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 06:26 PM

104. Pity the Democrats didn't go after him, Cheney, Rummy et.al. for war crimes once they were

out of office.

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Response to Louisiana1976 (Reply #104)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 06:29 PM

105. Pity indeed. The whole world loses due to their cold feet

You can't "look ahead" if you don't learn from/deal with the past.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 12:09 PM

10. Evil Chimpie, evil Darth - putting profits over life.

Hope he gets convicted, more for justice and the optics, though I don't expect it to really have any consequences.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 12:15 PM

11. Gog and Magog? Is that some new Comedy Central sketch show? nt

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Response to valerief (Reply #11)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 12:21 PM

12. daughters

I think bush eas referring to jos daughters.

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Response to valerief (Reply #11)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 12:25 PM

13. Believe it has to do with warring from/with Eastern Europe and Western Asia.

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Response to DhhD (Reply #13)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 12:31 PM

14. Whew! As long as it's not replacing Key and Peele. nt

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Response to valerief (Reply #14)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 12:48 PM

27. In the past century, many Western Christians thought the end of the World had come as

described by the Bible because Hitler was from the areas of Gog and Magog, where there is a confluence of all major religions leading to the Arian religion, of Hitler.

The interpretation of the Bible, by preachers seeking parsonage-ship has lead to lunacy by some followers, in my opinion. Some interpretators have even written their own bible. Does GWB have his own written copy in painting form?

The correct spelling of the religion is Aryan, not Arian.

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Response to DhhD (Reply #27)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 01:10 PM

37. Bwah! His own special picture Bible. I can see the parting of the Red bathtub.

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Response to valerief (Reply #37)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 02:19 PM

73. Lol!

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Response to valerief (Reply #14)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 01:11 PM

39. Numerous works on rewriting the Bible are in existence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_Bible_translations

This is quite a history lesson. And if one looks into the sources at the end; well that is another long study.

Then how about the works of the other religions? How about the confluent writings of religions?

What is the Aryan religion of Hitler?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_religion
If you compare information from these two links, you can find a confluent cause.

(I my reply, Arian incorrectly spelled. Arian is a cultural word and Aryan is a religion.)

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Response to DhhD (Reply #39)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 01:22 PM

45. The Bible's had more versions than my Firefox for Windows. nt

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Response to valerief (Reply #11)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 12:53 PM

29. This really happened

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/andrewbrown/2009/aug/10/religion-george-bush
<snip>
Here's a story we should all be ashamed of missing: George W Bush attempted to sell the invasion of Iraq to Jacques Chirac using biblical prophecy.

In the winter of 2003, when George Bush and Tony Blair were frantically gathering support for their planned invasion, Professor Thomas Römer, an Old Testament expert at the university of Lausanne, was rung up by the Protestant Federation of France. They asked him to supply them with a summary of the legends surrounding Gog and Magog and as the conversation progressed, he realised that this had originally come, from the highest reaches of the French government.

President Jacques Chirac wanted to know what the hell President Bush had been on about in their last conversation. Bush had then said that when he looked at the Middle East, he saw "Gog and Magog at work" and the biblical prophecies unfolding. But who the hell were Gog and Magog? Neither Chirac nor his office had any idea. But they knew Bush was an evangelical Christian, so they asked the French Federation of Protestants, who in turn asked Professor Römer.

He explained that Gog and Magog were, to use theological jargon, crazy talk. They appear twice in the Old Testament, once as a name, and once in a truly strange prophecy in the book of Ezekiel:

Who are all these people? The best opinion is that like all Bible prophecy, it is a mixture of wish-fulfilment and contemporary (iron age) politics. Some of it at least seems to refer to the turmoil brought about by Alexander the Great in the fourth century BC (unlike Bush, Alexander actually conquered Afghanistan). But they have been for the last two hundred years the subject of increasingly excited evangelical fanfic, especially in America; in the 70s and 80s, Gog was meant to be Russia. Ronald Reagan seems to have believed that.

But with Reagan, the prophecy appreciation part of his brain functioned quite independently of the part that started wars (there's nothing in the Old Testament about Nicaragua or even Grenada). Bush seems to have taken the threat of Gog and Magog to Israel quite literally, and, if this story can be believed, to have launched a war to stop them.

Can it be believed? We have calls out to Professor Römer and to the Protestant Federation of France. I'll report back if or when they get back to us. But Römer story was published in the Lausanne University magazine in 2007, and looks perfectly credible there. It was repeated independently in a French book of interviews with Chirac this spring. I'm certainly inclined to believe it myself: it makes as much sense as anything else about Bush's policy in Iraq.

lots more at link

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Response to malaise (Reply #29)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 01:04 PM

35. Thank you for the link!

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Response to malaise (Reply #29)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 01:20 PM

43. Good link. We all have known Dimson has a few screws loose, but the others

(Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Rice, etc.) who are also guilty, aren't all gogsmacked, are they?

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Response to valerief (Reply #43)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 02:02 PM

60. Fundie religious BS was/is very convenient for

warmongering neo-cons.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 12:33 PM

15. Take this with a grain of salt.

It's from a 2007 interview with Amy Goodman. The story never went anywhere then, so I'm skeptical. Gen. Clark was running for President at the time. As much as I dislike the Bush administration, I'll wait for more proof other than anonymous hearsay.

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Response to jehop61 (Reply #15)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 12:45 PM

23. IF the lawsuit goes forward, then Gen. Clark may be called to testify.

His word in open court would carry a lot of weight, I would think.

In any case, I hope the case at least continues long enough to get some publicity. I can't imagine SCOTUS ever letting this woman win . . . but the Federal Court hearing it is among the most liberal in the country -- Northern California.

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Response to jehop61 (Reply #15)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 01:25 PM

47. I think Gen. Clark's statement was not political but historical recollection.

I am surprised and dismayed that what Gen.Clark asserted has not been looked into, to ascertain the details or plans- behind the alleged memo- I could not help myself but think that if Rumsfeld was a Democrat serving a Democratic President and a credible Flag officer made the same assertion, all hell would break loose as every Republicans in the country would salivate on the chance of not only bringing down a Democratic administration but also prosecuting them (as they should if it were the case) to the maximum degree.

In any case Gen.Wes K. Clark inferred the same claims again on his most recent appearance at Aspen Security Conference. Here is the link below..

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Response to Legalequilibrium78 (Reply #47)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 01:52 PM

56. Yes, legal, it was 'historical,'

and reluctant at that, but General Clark did feel obliged to inform the public about the 'origins' of the war.

He wrote about it.

http://www.salon.com/2007/10/12/wesley_clark/

Welcome to DU.

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Response to elleng (Reply #56)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 11:16 PM

134. Much love and thanks

Elleng ☺

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Response to Legalequilibrium78 (Reply #47)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 07:46 PM

118. Welcome to DU

I look forward to more thoughtful postings from you.

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Response to emsimon33 (Reply #118)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 11:10 PM

133. Thank you!!

Thank you kindly for the hospitable welcome. ☺

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Response to jehop61 (Reply #15)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 01:37 PM

54. He said this recently and more at the Aspen Security Conference

Starts at around 8:42


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Response to octoberlib (Reply #54)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 02:15 PM

68. Thanks for this, octoberlib.

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Response to octoberlib (Reply #54)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 10:23 PM

128. Not backing down, either. Thanks, octoberlib.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 12:34 PM

16. kinda looks...

...like it's working except for Iran. Any further pressure on Iran will push it closer to Russia. To win, divide your enemies...

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Response to HoosierCowboy (Reply #16)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 01:24 PM

46. It looks like the operation is ongoing.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 12:36 PM

18. If bush and co. find their way out of this lawsuit I will never trust the courts again. This is

another example of the rw religions forcing the rest of us to see things their way even if we do not believe in it. Theocracy be damned.

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Response to jwirr (Reply #18)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 05:07 PM

87. I think that is one reason they filed in California.

Texas, Wyoming and DC judges would have thrown it out in a heart beat. There is also the republican influence on all those judges.

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Response to Delmette (Reply #87)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 06:32 PM

106. True.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 12:36 PM

19. Here on DU many people noted the open-ended language used...

...in the legalistic justifications for launching the war. Combined with the PNAC-gallery's existing policy recommendations, it pointed squarely at a "take one down, move on to the next" gameplan.

That, and the fact that they were in complete fantasy-land about how it would work.

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Response to JHB (Reply #19)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 12:47 PM

25. It was their version of the "domino theory" of SE Asia -- but in that case

they thought China would be the perpetrator.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #25)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 01:27 PM

49. Upon finding the Communist Domino Theory was not an actual thing

they decided to create their own? Never let a valuable theory go to waste.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 12:52 PM

28. All oil producing countries. What a coincidence.








Unca Dick would have made Bill Gates look like a street person.


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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 01:01 PM

31. Well, lets see..... taking out Lebanon and Somalia, I can agree with.

They really need some democracy.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 01:04 PM

34. This lawsuit is a "mission from God"

Imagine a world where Bush wasn't appointed to the presidency.

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Response to mountain grammy (Reply #34)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 01:28 PM

50. It would be a world transformed—for the better.

Just imagine.

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Response to Enthusiast (Reply #50)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 06:36 PM

108. +1 million

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 01:13 PM

40. Glad Im not an evangelical anymore.

Heard this kind of talk too often. I don't know if this is true, but as a former evangelical Christian I do find it believable.

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Response to BuckeyeBrad (Reply #40)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 01:20 PM

44. Welcome to DU, BuckeyeBrad.

I'm glad you're not, too!

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Response to BuckeyeBrad (Reply #40)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 01:36 PM

53. Yep, me too. I heard that stuff for a long time, believed it for a while

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 01:18 PM

42. It doesn't appear that Bush liked Muslims too much

Not all of them are oil producing. He also had other motivations other than oil.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 01:25 PM

48. There are classic threads about this topic back at DU2...

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #48)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 02:32 PM

75. Here is more about the possible duet between Bush and Saudi Prince.

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #48)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 10:35 PM

129. Sid, it's new to some...



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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 01:31 PM

51. Menon and Oneal identify three domestic groups responsible for imperialism:

Menon and Oneal identify three domestic groups responsible for imperialism:

those motivated by the prospect of economic gain; agents of the state- particularly those responsible for national security- who may see imperialism as a means of advancing their own careers; and ideological, religious, or cultural groups who believe that expansion is desirable in principle or even inevitable.


Menon, J. & Oneal, J.R. (1986). Explaining imperialism: The state of the art as reflected in three theories. Polity, 19(2), p. 180.

George Bush:‘God told me to end the tyranny in Iraq’
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usa

George Bush revealed the extent of his religious fervor when he met a Palestinian delegation during the Israeli-Palestinian summit at the Egyptian resort of Sharm el-Sheikh, four months after the US-led invasion of Iraq in 2003.

One of the delegates, Nabil Shaath, who was Palestinian foreign minister at the time, said: “President Bush said to all of us: ‘I am driven with a mission from God.’ God would tell me, “George, go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan. ‘And I did. And then God would tell me, ‘George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq.‘ And I did.” (MacAskill, 2005)


And He Shall Be Judged.
http://www.gq.com/news-politics/newsmakers/200905/donald-rumsfeld-administration-peers-detractors

-ON THE MORNING OF Thursday, April 10, 2003, Donald Rumsfeld's Pentagon prepared a top-secret briefing for George W. Bush. This document, known as the Worldwide Intelligence Update, was a daily digest of critical military intelligence so classified that it circulated among only a handful of Pentagon leaders and the president; Rumsfeld himself often delivered it, by hand, to the White House. The briefing's cover sheet generally featured triumphant, color images from the previous days' war efforts: On this particular morning, it showed the statue of Saddam Hussein being pulled down in Firdos Square, a grateful Iraqi child kissing an American soldier, and jubilant crowds thronging the streets of newly liberated Baghdad. And above these images, and just below the headline SECRETARY OF DEFENSE, was a quote that may have raised some eyebrows. It came from the Bible, from the book of Psalms: "Behold, the eye of the Lord is on those who fear Him…To deliver their soul from death."

These cover sheets were the brainchild of Major General Glen Shaffer, a director for intelligence serving both the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the secretary of defense. In the days before the Iraq war, Shaffer's staff had created humorous covers in an attempt to alleviate the stress of preparing for battle. Then, as the body counting began, Shaffer, a Christian, deemed the biblical passages more suitable. Several others in the Pentagon disagreed. At least one Muslim analyst in the building had been greatly offended; others privately worried that if these covers were leaked during a war conducted in an Islamic nation, the fallout—as one Pentagon staffer would later say —"would be as bad as Abu Ghraib."

But the Pentagon's top officials were apparently unconcerned about the effect such a disclosure might have on the conduct of the war or on Bush's public standing. When colleagues complained to Shaffer that including a religious message with an intelligence briefing seemed inappropriate, Shaffer politely informed them that the practice would continue, because "my seniors"—JCS chairman Richard Myers, Rumsfeld, and the commander in chief himself—appreciated the cover pages.

The Scripture-adorned cover sheets illustrate one specific complaint I heard again and again: that Rumsfeld's tactics—such as playing a religious angle with the president—often ran counter to sound decision-making and could, occasionally, compromise the administration's best interests. In the case of the sheets, publicly flaunting his own religious views was not at all the SecDef's style—"Rumsfeld was old-fashioned that way," Shaffer acknowledged when I contacted him about the briefings—but it was decidedly Bush's style, and Rumsfeld likely saw the Scriptures as a way of making a personal connection with a president who frequently quoted the Bible. No matter that, if leaked, the images would reinforce impressions that the administration was embarking on a religious war and could escalate tensions with the Muslim world. The sheets were not Rumsfeld's direct invention—and he could thus distance himself from them, should that prove necessary. (Draper, 2009, p. 1) And He Shall Be Judged



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Response to OnyxCollie (Reply #51)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 01:38 PM

55. That is so sickening.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #55)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 05:16 PM

89. This is why we should have atheist's for presidents.

NT

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Response to Delmette (Reply #89)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 06:01 PM

98. John Kennedy was fine, and Jimmy Carter, and so were most Democratic Presidents,

even if they had a religion.

But GWB was a real loony tune.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #98)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 06:06 PM

99. You're right.

I'm just so heartbroken and pissed off at the same time.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 01:33 PM

52. When Jacques Chirac wouldn't get with the program

the Neo-Con reaction was to start the whole freedom fries, dump the French wine stupidity.

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Response to Enthusiast (Reply #52)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 02:00 PM

59. Yeah. I remember that moment so well

"The last thing that region needs is another war", he said, and I found myself in agreement with him for the first time in my life.
And then the "Freedom fries" madness started...

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Response to Enthusiast (Reply #52)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 02:07 PM

63. That is exactly how propaganda is supposed to work

They just made up a situation and a lie and we all bought it. It does not matter that France has had our back since 1776.

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Response to maindawg (Reply #63)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 02:12 PM

65. I knew the freedom fries thing was nonsense from the start.

When we look back it's hard to find an example of anything honest from the Bush Administration.

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Response to maindawg (Reply #63)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 02:16 PM

69. We all didn't buy it. Millions around protesting against a potential war didn't buy it.

Many others who didn't protest also didn't buy it.

The war profiteers had their media tell us we needed to want war. That crazypot was stirred and hormones took over. And while the war went on, many, many of us (dare I say most of us?) didn't buy it.

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Response to maindawg (Reply #63)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 03:42 PM

85. SPEAK FOR YOURSELF.

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Response to maindawg (Reply #63)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 11:26 PM

135. No one here bought it, airc. We KNEW they were lying from the beginning. In fact many were

predicting that the Bush gang would USE 9/11 as an excuse to start a war somewhere. We didn't know about their plans yet, but it was clear they were just itching to start a war.

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Response to Enthusiast (Reply #52)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 02:41 PM

78. They did way more than that

hence the French ended up with Sarkozy who is now up shit creek on corruption charges.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/10939820/Nicolas-Sarkozy-charged-with-corruption.html

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Response to malaise (Reply #78)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 03:04 PM

81. Geez.

Why don't we have anti-corruption police? We could use some.

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #107)

Mon Jul 28, 2014, 06:37 AM

145. True n/t

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 02:10 PM

64. The Second Amended Complaint Specifies The History And Specific Claims Well

Everything specified was followed and tracked by DU.

Worth the read.

http://witnessiraq.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/SAC.pdf

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Response to cantbeserious (Reply #64)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 02:53 PM

80. Thanks

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 02:13 PM

66. For those who don't understand why there is so much animosity toward "faith" on DU, see Bush's

comment about "Gog and Magog." This asshole, the most powerful man in the world, used Bronze Age mythology as inspiration/justification for his planned slaughter. Sickening and, frankly, pathetic.

Belief in the supernatural/magical is fine when it occurs in a vacuum, but it rarely does. It has massive real-life negative consequences for people.

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Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #66)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 02:17 PM

70. And that, in a nutshell, is it's raison d'etre. nt

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Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #66)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 02:17 PM

71. That's why I chose my sig. nt

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Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #66)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 02:33 PM

77. Bush's crazy faith is not really the story.

We agree that it's insane and stupid, but Bush's faith or belief in some interpretation of Revelations was not remotely the reason for the invasion of Iraq in 2003. The pre-history building up to that moment dates back to about 1973. Bush's faith was not at all the reason for the PNAC plan, or their 1998 letter to Clinton, or for the immediate preparations after Coup 2000 (i.e., prior to 9/11) for invasions of both Iraq and Afghanistan, or for Rumsfeld's immediate swivel to Iraq on the day of 9/11 as documented in the release of memos from his deputy.

Bush's beliefs about Gog and Magog are just some magical bullshit with which this regime frontman and aggressor-in-chief can justify a course of action he did not himself devise, one that was already provided for him as his life's mission by people surrounding and managing him. Without them, of course, he would never have even been sitting in that chair.

The Iraq invasion was a group enterprise motivated by a particular, wide-ranging and in fact global geopolitical vision; by MIC business plans set up to profit the various perpetrators; and by the desire to control the second-largest proven oil reserves in the world. There would never have been any chance of it happening if the only factor had been Bush's faith. The latter is a superfluous add-on that was, however, highly useful in winning the support of the mad fundamentalists and self-styled anti-Muslim "infidels" at home.

This needs to be understood, because defeating fundamentalist Christianist politics would change only a small part of the U.S. political dynamics underlying the federal government's constant drive to new wars, new covert interventions, constructions of new enemies, and reactionary and pro-corporate policy stances in all nations (the latter as so effectively documented in the State Department memos released by Wikileaks).

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Response to JackRiddler (Reply #77)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 06:42 PM

109. Thank you - religious zealotry is just a cover for corporate invasions.

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Response to JackRiddler (Reply #77)

Mon Jul 28, 2014, 12:44 AM

137. Totally agree with you. n/t

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Response to JackRiddler (Reply #77)

Mon Jul 28, 2014, 07:49 AM

146. Well it also kept the ReTHUG base happy

and facilitated the rise of Fundie morons at the highest level of the military.

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Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #66)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 09:14 PM

121. The BBC reported that he told other leaders

that God spoke to him and told him to attack Afghanistan, Liberate Iraq, and pave the way to establishing a Palestinian state.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2005/10_october/06/bush.shtml

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Response to salin (Reply #121)

Mon Jul 28, 2014, 10:01 AM

150. No doubt he believed that shit.

It is in no way or fashion the reason for the invasions. Has nothing to do with why he's fronting as "president" as opposed to playing video games in some basement.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 02:28 PM

74. While Bush is painting and riding bikes...

Cheney is still spinning his web of lies trying to create an alternate universe. That guy was given a 2nd chance at life with someone's heart, and he's still a hateful, selfish bastard.

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Response to C Moon (Reply #74)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 05:34 PM

94. Bush and Cheney are the ones that really need to be in prison.

While the republicans are smack talking about impeaching Obama for petty bullshit, Bush and Cheney continue to walk free for war crimes abuses and the MIC continues to rake in trillions.

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Response to Initech (Reply #94)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 06:47 PM

110. Exactly.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 02:32 PM

76. Premillenialism only ever took off in the US (and recently, and often quite casually)

the Anglosphere has a trend of taking eccentric minorities and labeling them the One and Only Way; the Continent has always been a little more sanguine philosophically since like the 13th c.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premillennialism

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 02:46 PM

79. This was the brainchild of the Project for a New American Century, PNAC,

much too 'creative' for W, imo, but the courts should get into the facts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century

The Project for the New American Century (PNAC) was an American think tank based in Washington, D.C. established in 1997 as a non-profit educational organization founded by William Kristol and Robert Kagan. The PNAC's stated goal is "to promote American global leadership." Fundamental to the PNAC were the view that "American leadership is good both for America and for the world" and support for "a Reaganite policy of military strength and moral clarity." With its members in numerous key administrative positions, the PNAC exerted influence on high-level U.S. government officials in the administration of U.S. President George W. Bush and affected the Bush Administration's development of military and foreign policies, especially involving national security and the Iraq War.

William Kristol, Co-founder and Chairman
Robert Kagan, Co-founder
Bruce P. Jackson

Ellen Bork, Deputy Director
Gary Schmitt, Senior Fellow
Thomas Donnelly, Senior Fellow
Reuel Marc Gerecht, Senior Fellow

Signatories to Statement of Principles
Elliott Abrams
Gary Bauer
William J. Bennett
John Ellis "Jeb" Bush
Dick Cheney
Eliot A. Cohen
Midge Decter
Paula Dobriansky
Steve Forbes
Aaron Friedberg
Francis Fukuyama
Frank Gaffney
Fred C. Ikle
Donald Kagan
Zalmay Khalilzad
I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby
Norman Podhoretz
J. Danforth Quayle
Peter W. Rodman
Stephen P. Rosen
Henry S. Rowen
Donald Rumsfeld
Vin Weber
George Weigel
Paul Wolfowitz

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 03:12 PM

82. Chirac was bewildered over Defendant BUSH’s statement.

Join the club

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Response to Cartoonist (Reply #82)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 09:42 PM

123. "Defendent Bush," has a nice ring to it.

I'm not surprised by the Gog and Magog stuff, which is actually an obscure cover by popular televangelists like Pastor Hagee to explain his wild geopolitical theories which always involve certain countries especially Israel.

Gog and Magog, to them, can be any countries opposing them. There are various sermons on which country is Gog or Magog. There's not a general rule to it.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 03:40 PM

83. W.

Swore allegiance to a "secret society", but claims Jesus Christ as the biggest influence in his life. Sorry Boy George, theoligical impossibility. Called trying to serve two masters, or hijacking a religion for political purposes. Either way, big no-no's.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 03:42 PM

84. And yet there are those who still scorn the notion that Bushco would MIHOP. If W saw it as part of

God's Will",.........

The word "sacrifices" comes to mind.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 05:11 PM

88. Wesley Clark's interview 2007 Democracy Now....went into detail about these countries.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #88)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 06:59 PM

114. Thanks.

Some of us were aware of it at the time; unfortunately not enough of us.

He also wrote about it.

http://www.salon.com/2007/10/12/wesley_clark/

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 05:24 PM

91. Thanks for the post, I'm glad these things resurface

once in a while. I remember when it first became public but then was dropped like a hot rock. It needs to be kept visible as much as possible to remind those who forgot and show those who never knew. It's crazy on a frying pan.

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Response to defacto7 (Reply #91)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 06:09 PM

100. I remember it, too. Maybe this lawsuit will turn the tide -- if it doesn't get dismissed.

It would be amazing if there is an actual trial at the Federal level. Even if we lose, we win -- the publicity would finally bring all this out.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 05:35 PM

95. Hell, I read about this exchange with Chirac YEARS ago.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #95)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 06:10 PM

101. Did you read about the active lawsuit several years ago?

Obviously not.

If the judge lets it go on, then many more millions will hear about the exchange with Chirac, and everything else mentioned in the lawsuit.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #101)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 07:15 PM

115. I'm just saying the merits of this case are well documented.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #115)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 07:19 PM

116. Not with the 98% of people who don't read from sources like DU.

And General Clark in a book is not the same as General Clark in court, giving testimony under oath. That would be HUGE.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #116)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 07:45 PM

117. Chirac would be even bigger.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 05:37 PM

96. It's been reported junior blew up frogs as a child. Gog and Magog had to be blown

up once junior wielded unlimited power.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 05:41 PM

97. This scares me...

As a Treaty
7 of the United States, the United States Constitution incorporates this principle into its law
8 under Article VI, clause 2, which declares “treaties made . . . to be the supreme law of the
9 land.”

Will this clause be in effect if TPP is signed?

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Response to Delmette (Reply #97)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 06:11 PM

102. Yes. And that is a concern about TPP, if it gets approved without a thorough airing. n/t

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 06:55 PM

112. People who claim to hear voices

as George Bush claimed are usually medicated and sometimes in restraints. We has a brain addled and dangerous person at the helm.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 06:59 PM

113. Thank you, "Supreme" Court

for appointing Bush and his legion of Evil!

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 10:08 PM

125. they want to drug test people who receive government benefits

can we drug test the people who start senseless wars and crash the economy???

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sun Jul 27, 2014, 11:09 PM

132. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, pnwmom.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)


Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Mon Jul 28, 2014, 01:37 AM

138. Have the memos been proven to exist? If not this will be a difficult case to prove. nt

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #138)

Mon Jul 28, 2014, 01:41 AM

139. General Clark could give sworn testimony in court. He would have to name the General

who tried to show him the memo, and that person might have to testify too. Their testimony would carry weight even if the memos couldn't be obtained.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #139)

Mon Jul 28, 2014, 04:33 AM

143. Yes.

I expect that General Clark would be reluctant to name the person, not a 'General,' was it, but someone, a junior officer? working on the 'General staff?' And as the memo was offered to General Clark but he declined to look at it, because it was 'classified,' that would be a problematic evidentiary hurdle, imo.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Mon Jul 28, 2014, 08:26 AM

147. Sad that no political party in the US had the courage to hold those responsible

accountable for their crimes against humanity. Instead we just bailed out another rich, entitled, fraudulent institution with tax pay lives and money. One political party committed the crime, the other political party decided to excuse it and look forward.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Mon Jul 28, 2014, 08:39 AM

148. Had they been successful in attacking that many countries

I think it would have started WWIII and resulted in a number of countries we have good relations with the US turning against us. With the seven countries listed in the article plus Afghanistan that would have made eight countries. Given the fact that we struggled to have enough manpower to fight two wars, three or four would have been highly unlikely without a draft of some sort (note: I'm not saying I support one, just making some general assumptions if their plan had gone through). The whole thing would have been a disaster for the US.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Mon Jul 28, 2014, 10:02 AM

151. And so many just went along for the ride.

If you question the war, if you question the motives, you hate America.
If you launch missiles, fly drones and fill poor people full of lead, your a hero.

Pretty sick to think of all the people who were in the markets and who still are, who profit day in and out from the works of the war machine. That is what drives us into conflicts. The weight of all those investments pressing against our democracy and the soft willed politicians who shift whichever way the money blows. As it continues today and for the future. Every destroyed home, every maimed child and every corpse providing a little extra funds for a sightly more comfortable retirement, a second home or a new car. How they can sleep at night, I'll never know.

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