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The French resistance didn't congregate in a field. They "hid" themselves amongst the populace. (Original Post) Luminous Animal Jul 2014 OP
Congregating in field would be an incredibly stupid way to fight a war. morningfog Jul 2014 #1
Congregating in a field would be a incredibly stupid way to fight an occupation. Luminous Animal Jul 2014 #2
Very true, but no one should be surprised at the response either. nt Bonobo Jul 2014 #3
Nor should they be surprised Aerows Jul 2014 #22
Well yes NOW it would be...but it was SOP way back in the day. Rex Jul 2014 #55
This is a bad comparison. Gravitycollapse Jul 2014 #4
Palestine is not occupied? Explain to me how they are not occupied. Luminous Animal Jul 2014 #5
It's a bad comparison for reasons beyond the fact that an occupation is in place. Gravitycollapse Jul 2014 #7
so, a populace only has the right to resist their occupation when their occupiers seek world Luminous Animal Jul 2014 #12
Arguably, blindly firing rockets into Israeli territory is not an act of guerrilla resistance. Gravitycollapse Jul 2014 #15
South Africa. HooptieWagon Jul 2014 #76
Define Palestine. Are you saying Israel has no right to exist? Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #8
Nope. Explain to me how Palestine is not occupied. Luminous Animal Jul 2014 #9
Um. Okay. Sure -- Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #10
There literally is a location called Palestine. That's like saying Antarctica doesn't exist. Gravitycollapse Jul 2014 #11
I see Israel, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip on the map. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #16
All of those places are part of the region known as Palestine. Gravitycollapse Jul 2014 #18
"Much like how Canada and the United States constitute part of North America." Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #19
As I said, Palestine is a geographic region and it is a state. Gravitycollapse Jul 2014 #23
Blue dogs and Progressives in-fight. Hamas wants to eradicate the PA. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #24
"Palestinians win implicit U.N. recognition of sovereign state" Gravitycollapse Jul 2014 #25
I was reading about the "unity" government just yesterday. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #28
Whoa. Luminous Animal Jul 2014 #13
How about this LiberalArkie Jul 2014 #29
Interesting read but that's not a nation that can be occupied per the premise of the OP. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #30
Well, the West Bank and Gaza are either part of an apartheid Israel or not part of Israel and Chathamization Jul 2014 #34
There are no Israelis living in Gaza. The borders in the WB don't exist because Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #35
So are they part of an apartheid Israel or not part of one and under Israeli occupation and subject Chathamization Jul 2014 #38
Arabs and Muslims can enjoy full citizenship rights in Israel, as can Christians and others. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #44
No, Palestinians in the occupied territories are denied rights. Israel will not allow them to Chathamization Jul 2014 #46
Nonsense. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #49
Sorry, if the territories aren't part of Israel, then the Israeli control over them, military Chathamization Jul 2014 #50
More willful nonsense. Israel would not be in Gaza if not for Hamas firing rockets. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #52
So it's not occupation/apartheid when it's justified. Gotcha. N/T Chathamization Jul 2014 #56
No, it's not and you know it, as does everyone else regardless of the Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #62
Sorry, if you exert military control over land that’s not yours it’s an occupation. When you also Chathamization Jul 2014 #63
So, what you're saying is Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #64
If Hamas controlled Israeli trade, passports, taxes, airspace, waterways, borders, internal travel, Chathamization Jul 2014 #66
Gaza shares a border with Egypt. Israel cannot control that border. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #67
You’re saying since Israel 1% of the border is indirectly controlled by Israel and 99% directly then Chathamization Jul 2014 #68
The idea that Gaza is under some sort of lockdown is absurd on its face. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #69
So if Hamas controlled Israeli trade, passports, taxes, airspace, waterways, borders, internal Chathamization Jul 2014 #70
If you think genocidal lunatics should be free to import weapons Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #71
Israel is colonizing Palestinian territory; denying the existence of the settlements is denying Chathamization Jul 2014 #72
You keep using the word "colonizing" but the term has no bearing on observed reality. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #73
If there are no borders between the two, then it’s a single apartheid state. N/T Chathamization Jul 2014 #74
Apartheid is another word you use without context or proof. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #75
So that land is part of Israel when it comes to settlements but not part of Israel when it comes to Chathamization Jul 2014 #78
You're not even making an argument, you're just repeating yourself with no evidence or thought. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #79
If you believe that, get out of the way; the blind should not lead the blind. closeupready Jul 2014 #36
Did the Resistance police Paris during the occupation? hack89 Jul 2014 #33
The French Resistance didn't lob rockets into Germany to terrorize German citizens. WinkyDink Jul 2014 #59
Imagine if France had been occupied for 60 years and partitioned. Luminous Animal Jul 2014 #27
Fighting from hospitals and other protected sites is a war crime and the Geneva Convention Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #6
Nazi comparisons are silly and full of derp. nt Bonobo Jul 2014 #14
Please point out my Nazi comparison. Never happened. Derpeederpeederp. Luminous Animal Jul 2014 #17
French resist-derp. nt Bonobo Jul 2014 #21
Nope. Pointed out resistance. Luminous Animal Jul 2014 #26
You pointed out the French resistance against the Nazi occupation. Kaleva Jul 2014 #60
And Ill point out the concentration camp Israel is confining Palestinians in. HooptieWagon Jul 2014 #77
Yup...so is the response. Behind the Aegis Jul 2014 #20
The French Resistance wasn't fighting for fundamentalist theocracy, though. chrisa Jul 2014 #31
God,so much this. Anyone who has ever read Hamas's political aims sufrommich Jul 2014 #32
When will people stop with the frankly stupid nonsense that being appalled by Israeli Maedhros Jul 2014 #51
The real reason for the NSA. L0oniX Jul 2014 #37
Then any group who uses that tactic should not be surprised by civilian deaths. conservaphobe Jul 2014 #39
You're comparing Hamas to the French Resistance? Really? stevenleser Jul 2014 #40
Yes....really. Full of win this thread. nt msanthrope Jul 2014 #45
Weak sauce. nt Dreamer Tatum Jul 2014 #41
Did the French Resistance target women and chidlren too? Or just Nazis wearing uniforms? dilby Jul 2014 #42
Did they try to maximize French civilian casualties? Throd Jul 2014 #43
So in your scenario, the Israelis are Nazis... SidDithers Jul 2014 #47
Nope. I am specifically referring to the resistance of those occupied, not the ideology Luminous Animal Jul 2014 #48
There, there Tetris_Iguana Jul 2014 #57
Yes and their targets... iandhr Jul 2014 #53
Flamebait. (no text) Quantess Jul 2014 #54
Pommes et oranges. WinkyDink Jul 2014 #58
Sometimes they congregated aint_no_life_nowhere Jul 2014 #61
This message was self-deleted by its author LanternWaste Jul 2014 #65
 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
22. Nor should they be surprised
Thu Jul 24, 2014, 03:22 AM
Jul 2014

at the result of stupidity, like congregating in a field.

Gather your children together and stand in a field, shelter in a hovel, or do anything in the world you can to keep your family safe. Your family isn't responsible if they get blown away.

This revenge needs to stop. Stop killing each other - smug statements don't bring back the dead. Stopping the killing prevents it from continuing. That's the ONLY thing that prevents the death toll from rising.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
55. Well yes NOW it would be...but it was SOP way back in the day.
Thu Jul 24, 2014, 06:52 PM
Jul 2014

Line up and shoot each other!

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
4. This is a bad comparison.
Thu Jul 24, 2014, 01:46 AM
Jul 2014

The French resistance was truly a guerrilla unit, loosely connected to allied forces but not being a specific state fighting force. They also had no analogous political wing in power. They were in every sense of the word occupied. Hence, hiding among the population was literally the only way to exist.

Hamas, on the other hand, is partly an elected socio-political body, partly a legitimate state-based military and partly a guerrilla unit. Because of those first two facts, it is difficult to maintain the legitimacy of their guerrilla tactics. However, Israel is currently working very hard to erase the first two forms of Hamas and their legitimacy as guerrilla fighters will increase accordingly.

This reflects upon the oddly ass-backward nature of Israel's tactics.

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
7. It's a bad comparison for reasons beyond the fact that an occupation is in place.
Thu Jul 24, 2014, 02:11 AM
Jul 2014

I have presented those reasons. That isn't to say that I believe Hamas has no right to hide amongst the population as a guerrilla force. I simply find the comparison to the French Resistance a bad one.

Germany was essentially liquidating one-by-one every legitimate Western European state, committing systematic genocide, imposing puppet regimes and wishing, ultimately, to conquer the whole of humanity. The French Resistance tended to focus on sabotaging the Nazi forces in cooperation with the allied forces and, for obvious reasons, could not launch attacks directly against the German population. On top of this, there was the Vichy regime which was propped up by the Nazis.

That is a drastically different circumstance from the one which exists in Palestine. I realize an occupation exists. But not all occupations are the same simply because they are occupations. There is no Israeli puppet regime in Gaza. There is no grand scheme of world domination. There is no massive world war supporting the specific conflict.

It's a bad comparison.

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
15. Arguably, blindly firing rockets into Israeli territory is not an act of guerrilla resistance.
Thu Jul 24, 2014, 02:35 AM
Jul 2014

Firing at attacking Israeli soldiers? Absolutely legitimate. Shooting down Israeli military aircraft? Absolutely legitimate. Sabotaging, maybe through monkey wrenching or something, the implementation of Israeli settlements? Absolutely legitimate.

Firing missiles at Israeli civilians and bombing restaurants? Not legitimate.


Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
16. I see Israel, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip on the map.
Thu Jul 24, 2014, 02:38 AM
Jul 2014

Israel holds its current territory after 3 wars instigated by its neighbors. The West Bank is formally the territory of Jordan though Jordan seems to have ceded control to the Palestinians. The Gaza Strip was partially occupied by Israel but Israel forcibly evicted its citizens and ceded the territory to the Palestinians.

I'm sure many would want to consider the combination of Gaza and the WB to be Palestine but it seems awkward to call it a singular political entity considering each section is controlled by a different faction and those factions wage bloody war against each other moreo than they respectively wage war against Israel.

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
18. All of those places are part of the region known as Palestine.
Thu Jul 24, 2014, 02:48 AM
Jul 2014

Much like how Canada and the United States constitute part of North America.

On top of this fact, if we want to get semantic, an internationally recognized Palestinian state called Palestine actually exists.

Regardless of your opinion of the legitimacy of the state of Palestine, and regardless of what the previous poster was actually referring to, Palestine literally exists in at least one form and, more accurately, is a region and a state. So, denying that Palestine exists is, to be blunt, genuinely stupid.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
19. "Much like how Canada and the United States constitute part of North America."
Thu Jul 24, 2014, 03:00 AM
Jul 2014

North America is a geographical region. If that were the case one could just as easily maintain the generic "Middle East" for purposes of conversation. Unless corrected I'm assuming the OP is claiming Palestine is a state entity capable of being occupied in the same manner the US occupied Iraq. One does not refer to the United States as an occupying power in North America do to its geographical situation.

On top of this fact, if we want to get semantic, an internationally recognized Palestinian state called Palestine actually exists.

Which I acknowledged in my previous post. However, as I also stated the territories that would be considered Palestine are controlled by two separate factions. Which faction is recognized (and by whom) as the legitimate authority?

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
23. As I said, Palestine is a geographic region and it is a state.
Thu Jul 24, 2014, 03:27 AM
Jul 2014
However, as I also stated the territories that would be considered Palestine


I assume you mean the territories which are Palestine. Regardless of the infighting between who controls it, it is still an internationally recognized state.

Again, I'm left astounded by your assertion that Palestine doesn't exist. Not only does it exist, but in more than one form.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
24. Blue dogs and Progressives in-fight. Hamas wants to eradicate the PA.
Thu Jul 24, 2014, 03:37 AM
Jul 2014
I assume you mean the territories which are Palestine.

I'm not even sure what that means. "Internationally recognized" means even less. Who is recognizing what boundaries represented by which faction?

If Palestine is meant to mean the WB and Gaza as represented by the PA -- which the US has negotiated with in the past -- then Hamas is far more of an occupier than Israel.

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
25. "Palestinians win implicit U.N. recognition of sovereign state"
Thu Jul 24, 2014, 03:50 AM
Jul 2014
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/29/us-palestinians-statehood-idUSBRE8AR0EG20121129

Hamas is far more of an occupier than Israel.


Except Hamas is popular amongst Palestinians in Gaza and they are the majority power in the Palestinian Parliament. So they are not occupiers even under the most liberal of definitions. On top of this, the Fatah-Hamas electoral government unification to be held later this year has the potential to once again retain a single body governing the state of Palestine.

Either way, Hamas is a popular, elected body. Not an occupation.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
28. I was reading about the "unity" government just yesterday.
Thu Jul 24, 2014, 04:15 AM
Jul 2014

It strikes me as more akin to a Kardashian marriage --

The essence of Yadlin’s proposal is to capitalize on the extreme weakness of Hamas by letting the Palestinians go forward with a “unity government” under a reconciliation between Hamas and Fatah announced in April. At the time, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu denounced the idea, but Yadlin argues that taking a performance-based approach to this united government is the best way to move forward and break Hamas’s stranglehold on Gaza.

The core of Yadlin’s argument is that Hamas has never been weaker than now. Its own war strategy is a shambles: Its missiles aren’t hitting Israeli cities; its fighters aren’t able to sneak through tunnels and perform suicide missions or conduct kidnapping operations. Its base in Syria is lost and its patrons in the Muslim Brotherhood have been toppled from power in Egypt.

Hamas’s biggest weakness of all is its unpopularity among Palestinians in Gaza now. A poll taken in June, before the latest fighting began, showed that 70 percent of Gazans wanted a continuing cease-fire with Israel; 57 percent wanted a Fatah-Hamas unity government to renounce violence against Israel; 73 percent thought nonviolent resistance had a positive impact, and large majority thought Hamas had failed to deal with crime and corruption.

The future? Asked if Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas should send security personel and other officials to take over administration of Gaza, 65 percent said yes. The poll was published in July by the Washington Institute for Near East Policy and its senior fellow, David Pollock.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2014/07/21/how-to-break-hamass-stranglehold-on-gaza/


The rest of the article is rather interesting and seems to speak towards a careful-what-you-wish-for strategy. It certainly makes sense.

Anyhoo -- none of this changes the fact that the WB was once Jordan and Israel, the supposed occupier, voluntarily ceded Gaza. Whatever Palestine may be it is cobbled together from other nations that allowed it to assume its current form. Nor does the article you provided say what the territorial boundaries of "Palestine" are supposed to be.

That was, after all, the nature of my original comment in this sub-thread. No one is saying what Palestine is territorially because they want it to mean whatever they want it to mean at any given moment depending on self-interest. To territorially define Palestine would be to admit borders, acknowledge the right of Israel to exist and thus reveal Hamas and those acting like them as the aggressors. To leave the borders undefined is to have the luxury of calling Israel an occupier whenever it is convenient to do so for propaganda purposes.

And that's the game every body knows is being played.

Chathamization

(1,638 posts)
34. Well, the West Bank and Gaza are either part of an apartheid Israel or not part of Israel and
Thu Jul 24, 2014, 09:38 AM
Jul 2014

under foreign occupation by Israel while being colonized by it. Take your pick.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
35. There are no Israelis living in Gaza. The borders in the WB don't exist because
Thu Jul 24, 2014, 10:35 AM
Jul 2014

Arafat rejected borders in favor of an Intifada; much to President Clinton's dismay.

Chathamization

(1,638 posts)
38. So are they part of an apartheid Israel or not part of one and under Israeli occupation and subject
Thu Jul 24, 2014, 10:47 AM
Jul 2014

to Israeli colonization?

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
44. Arabs and Muslims can enjoy full citizenship rights in Israel, as can Christians and others.
Thu Jul 24, 2014, 02:53 PM
Jul 2014

The radical Palestinians ethnically cleanse the territory they occupy.

Chathamization

(1,638 posts)
46. No, Palestinians in the occupied territories are denied rights. Israel will not allow them to
Thu Jul 24, 2014, 03:18 PM
Jul 2014

be citizens of Israel. Israel will also not allow them to be citizens of their own country. Either these territories are part of an apartheid Israel or they are a separate nation under military occupation, and Israel (as well as others) should recognize them as such.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
49. Nonsense.
Thu Jul 24, 2014, 05:24 PM
Jul 2014

You can cry apartheid all you want but you do so ignoring the outright ethnic cleansing of the radicals. To be a Jew in Hamas controlled territory would be suicidal. Meanwhile, the Israeli Knesset has Arab members.

There is no permanent Israeli presence in Gaza. Gaza is only as much of a prison as Hamas chooses to make it. They are such degenerate thugs that the Egyptians do not support them and Egypt maintains a strong presence on its border with Gaza.

The PA in the WB could have had defined borders when President Clinton sought to broker an agreement but Arafat rejected the opportunity to provide a state for his people. He chose to keep things hostile presumably to protect his own sad, sick power base.

Chathamization

(1,638 posts)
50. Sorry, if the territories aren't part of Israel, then the Israeli control over them, military
Thu Jul 24, 2014, 06:21 PM
Jul 2014

presence in them, annexation of them, etc. is an occupation. Also, if they aren't part of Israel, then Israel and others need to recognize them as separate entities. The "they're not part of us but they're under our control and not their own entity" shell game is why people refer to it as apartheid. Oh, but it's not apartheid, since Israel has created some Bantustans...

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
52. More willful nonsense. Israel would not be in Gaza if not for Hamas firing rockets.
Thu Jul 24, 2014, 06:41 PM
Jul 2014

The game fools no one. Hamas wants to see Israel and its citizens exterminated and you and every other apologist knows this. Israel is quite capable of living beside its neighbors when not being attacked.

Hamas doesn't want peace; they're little more than corrupt two-bit thugs that hide behind their own civilians while targeting other civilians. They spend their every minute stockpiling and firing weapons with no legitimate military value so as to provoke attacks to ply the faux indignation of others.

Their "territory" does not exist because they do not want it to exist. If the radicals were to define their own borders then they would de facto be recognizing Israel's borders but they refuse to accept the existence of Israel.

Get back to me when Hamas is willing to acknowledge the Right of Israel to exist within defensible borders.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
62. No, it's not and you know it, as does everyone else regardless of the
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 09:02 AM
Jul 2014

terrorist-enabling spin. Israel used its own military to forcibly evict its own citizens from Gaza.

As noted before, Arabs can and do serve in the Knesset. If you're even half as sincere as you pretend to be perhaps you could regale us with the accounts of all the civil liberties enjoyed by Jews, Christians and others in areas under Palestinian control. Please tell us about the full citizenship rights, equal participation and legal protections extended by Hamas.

You can't, because they're thugs. So, your complaint about Israel is unfounded yet you conveniently discard the standard when applied to a group of criminals who would be light years ahead of where they are now if Apartheid were their only offense, so grievous are the balance of their crimes.

The act isn't fooling anyone.

Chathamization

(1,638 posts)
63. Sorry, if you exert military control over land that’s not yours it’s an occupation. When you also
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 09:29 AM
Jul 2014

are colonizing it and denying it the right to be recognized as sovereign entity, that goes even further. On the other hand, if the land is yours and you are denying the people their equal citizenship and rights, then it’s apartheid. Arguing that it’s not occupation/apartheid because it’s justified isn't terribly compelling. It’s like saying the US didn’t occupy Iraq because the militants it was fighting in Iraq were nasty.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
64. So, what you're saying is
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 09:41 AM
Jul 2014

when Hamas is firing Qassam rockets into Israel, kidnapping Israelis and dispatching its personnel kill Israels its occupying Israel.

And no matter how many times you repeat the propaganda of "colonizing" the charge is demonstrably false since Israel forcibly evicted its own citizens from Gaza.

Sadly, whenever the radicals amongst the Palestinians are in control ethnic cleansing ensues. Why do you support people who engage in ethnic cleansing?

Chathamization

(1,638 posts)
66. If Hamas controlled Israeli trade, passports, taxes, airspace, waterways, borders, internal travel,
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 10:14 AM
Jul 2014

international status, colonized its land at will and was a foreign entity, then yes, I would say it was occupying Israel. You probably would as well, and we’d probably agree that anyone saying it wasn’t was so biased that they were ignoring the facts and constructing their own reality.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
67. Gaza shares a border with Egypt. Israel cannot control that border.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 10:23 AM
Jul 2014

By your definition, whenever Egypt shuts down its border with Gaza because the thugs in Hamas are importing weapons and causing mayhem then Egypt must be militarily occupying Gaza.

The only misery in Gaza is that instigated by Hamas. If Hamas were to accept the current borders and recognize Israel's right to exist while insuring full civil rights for those living within its territory then these conflicts would end. Israel has demonstrated time and again that it is content to leave its neighbors to their own devises so long as Israelis are not being threatened.

Chathamization

(1,638 posts)
68. You’re saying since Israel 1% of the border is indirectly controlled by Israel and 99% directly then
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 10:38 AM
Jul 2014

Israel has no control of the border? It’s like saying that if Hamas controlled the entire border of Israel except for the Golan Heights and made an agreement with the Assad regime where Assad would control the Golan Heights border in a way acceptable to Hamas, then Hamas would not be controlling the border with Israel. Again, if someone said that we’d probably both agree that they were biased and creating their own reality.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
69. The idea that Gaza is under some sort of lockdown is absurd on its face.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 11:41 AM
Jul 2014

Hamas seems to have no trouble importing thousands of Qassam rockets, the materials to support those rockets and other weapons.

Whatever troubles Gaza is experiencing are the fault of Hamas.

Chathamization

(1,638 posts)
70. So if Hamas controlled Israeli trade, passports, taxes, airspace, waterways, borders, internal
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 12:18 PM
Jul 2014

travel, international status, colonized its land at will, had a military presence there, used it's military to exert control there, and was a foreign entity, you wouldn’t say they occupied Israel? I suppose if the meaning of words isn’t important to you we don’t have much to discuss.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
71. If you think genocidal lunatics should be free to import weapons
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 12:27 PM
Jul 2014

then the moral failing is your own. Israel evacuates civilians. Hamas targets Israeli civilians and places their own people in harm's way for propaganda purposes. Hamas seeks the destruction of Israel and the extermination of Jews. Israel is not colonizing Hamas territory; Israel evicted its own citizens. That fact does not change no matter how many times you repeat the lie of "colonization."

You're taking the side of genocidal monsters.

Chathamization

(1,638 posts)
72. Israel is colonizing Palestinian territory; denying the existence of the settlements is denying
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 12:35 PM
Jul 2014

reality. And to say that calling a military occupation a military occupation is supporting enemies of the occupation is ridiculous. If a right-winger said that anyone who was calling the US occupation of Iraq an occupation was taking the side of the militants that were decapitating civilians, we’d justifiably say they have no understanding of language, logic, or reality.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
73. You keep using the word "colonizing" but the term has no bearing on observed reality.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 12:49 PM
Jul 2014

For Israel to be colonizing Palestinian territory the Palestinians would have to legally defined borders. The PA is seeking a return to 1967 borders but that is not the same as the actual, legal borders.

Furthermore, the Palestinians cannot even agree among themselves what the borders should be. Many factions within Palestinian camp won't accept any borders that include Israel seeking to 1) destroy Israel outright and 2) use the conflict for personal power gains.

What, exactly, are the borders that Israel is supposed to have violated?

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
75. Apartheid is another word you use without context or proof.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 01:12 PM
Jul 2014

Keeping weapons out of the hands of genocidal lunatics is not a crime.

Palestinians have equal rights in Israel. The can serve in the Knesset and even serve in cabinet positions and on the Israeli Supreme Court. Please show us where similar rights are extended to those under Palestinians who are not Palestinians.

Show us the Jews allowed to keep their lives in Hamas controlled areas, let alone participate in civil government.

You can't.

Chathamization

(1,638 posts)
78. So that land is part of Israel when it comes to settlements but not part of Israel when it comes to
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 01:57 PM
Jul 2014

Palestinian rights.



Geez, why would anyone have trouble with magical borders that change depending on what subject your on?

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
79. You're not even making an argument, you're just repeating yourself with no evidence or thought.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 03:00 PM
Jul 2014

Why do you support Hamas, a group whose stated goal is the genocidal extermination of Jews and the elimination of Israel?

Why do you support Hamas, a group that ethnically cleanses the territory it controls?

Why do you support Hamas importing weapons with no military value that are only used for indiscriminate attacks against civilians?

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
6. Fighting from hospitals and other protected sites is a war crime and the Geneva Convention
Thu Jul 24, 2014, 02:10 AM
Jul 2014

holds the party that instigates fighting from such sites responsible for any collateral damage. Protected sites lose their protected status and opposing forces are entitled to engage.

Kaleva

(36,294 posts)
60. You pointed out the French resistance against the Nazi occupation.
Thu Jul 24, 2014, 07:40 PM
Jul 2014

There isn't one without the other.

sufrommich

(22,871 posts)
32. God,so much this. Anyone who has ever read Hamas's political aims
Thu Jul 24, 2014, 07:47 AM
Jul 2014

and still supports them is no liberal.

 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
51. When will people stop with the frankly stupid nonsense that being appalled by Israeli
Thu Jul 24, 2014, 06:37 PM
Jul 2014

aggression is equivalent to "supporting Hamas?"

That's Bush-grade mischaracterization.

 

conservaphobe

(1,284 posts)
39. Then any group who uses that tactic should not be surprised by civilian deaths.
Thu Jul 24, 2014, 10:50 AM
Jul 2014

What's the receiving end of that "resistance" supposed to do?

"You're in an untouchable area, so our hands are tied... you win!"

No, it doesn't work that way.

I'm no fan of Netanyahu, but some of the disingenuous propaganda coming from the Palestinian side is just as laughable.

dilby

(2,273 posts)
42. Did the French Resistance target women and chidlren too? Or just Nazis wearing uniforms?
Thu Jul 24, 2014, 11:33 AM
Jul 2014

Because I would have more sympathy for Palestinians if Hamas was only targeting military targets instead of just lobbing missiles into Israel hoping to hit anyone.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
48. Nope. I am specifically referring to the resistance of those occupied, not the ideology
Thu Jul 24, 2014, 03:36 PM
Jul 2014

of the occupiers.

iandhr

(6,852 posts)
53. Yes and their targets...
Thu Jul 24, 2014, 06:49 PM
Jul 2014

… WERE UNIFORMED GERMAN SOLDIERS.

Hamas shoots rockets at cities not military bases.

aint_no_life_nowhere

(21,925 posts)
61. Sometimes they congregated
Thu Jul 24, 2014, 07:59 PM
Jul 2014

An example is the up to 8,000 man resistance army that was organized in the rugged Vercors region near the Alps. They intended to try to open a new front inside France against the Germans to draw German soldiers away from Italy and the eastern front and the impending invasion of southern France. They drew to their ranks hundreds of ex-military from France's forces and hoped that many others would join them. The plan was to have the allies drop ammunition and military weapons as well as American paratroopers. The resistance army declared the part of France they occupied free, a new republic, with its own flag. Unfortunately, the aide they needed didn't arrive and they were left with poor weaponry. The Germans sent General Karl Pflaum and 20,000 Nazi troops to surround them. They took very heavy losses and few escaped.

There was a similar uprising and concentration of about 500 resistance fighters on the Plateau des Glieres in the Savoy region of southeastern France. The British made several parachute drops of arms but the Germans sent three battalions of about 4,000 men against them along with ground support aircraft and they were massacred over a campaign of several days. General Charles DeGaulle is the one who called them out into the field from his headquarters in London, forever gaining the hatred of many French because it was claimed he was just trying to show his power and influence to other allied leaders, knowing the campaign was doomed to failure from the start.

Response to Luminous Animal (Original post)

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