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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRobert F. Kennedy, Jr.: Still an antivaccine crank after all these years
When last we visited him, RFK Jr. had been threatening to write a book! And write a book he had done, a book entitled Thimerosal: Let the Science Speak: Mercury Toxicity in Vaccines and the Political, Regulatory, and Media Failures That Continue to Threaten Public Health. With the books imminent release in early August, media attention has been less than stellar, but the attention of the antivaccine crankosphere has been a bit more intense. Indeed, I had considered letting this cup pass because, well, Im sick and tired of RFK, Jr., and Im not sure that theres much that I want to say about him right now. Still, as I say, there are some topics that inevitably drag me in, even as I resist and procrastinate for a couple of days, and RFK Jr.s antivaccine quackery appears to be such a topic. Also, there has been a bit of mainstream media attention in the form of an article by Keith Kloor in The Washington Post a few days ago entitled Robert Kennedy Jr.s belief in autism-vaccine connection, and its political peril. There are a few juicy tidbits that I learned in the article, although the article seems a bit more sympathetic to RFK, Jr. than I would like. The article also says little about RFK Jr.s partner in this endeavor, Dr. Mark Hyman, who has been an intermittent topic on this blog and has been known to http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/09/08/dr-mark-hyman-mangles-autism-science-on/
The good things I learned is that, increasingly, RFK, Jr. is being viewed by mainstream politicians and media as the crank that he is. (And, make no mistake, on the subject of thimerosal in vaccines, RFK, Jr. is a crank par excellence.) Remember Senator Barbara Mikulski, for example? She co-sponsored a resolution that declared one week during last October to be Naturopathic Medicine Week, or, as I called it, Quackery Week. She also co-chaired a meeting with the creator of the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine (NCCAM), where Harkin complained that NCCAM had fallen short because it hadnt validated enough CAM, completely misunderstanding how science works and supported an amendment to the Affordable Care Act to have it cover CAM practitioners. It goes on and on; she appeared at the anniversary of the integrative medicine center at the University of Maryland and has even appeared on Dr. Ozs radio show to promote integrative medicine. She is among the most woo-friendly legislators out there.
And even she didnt take RFK, Jr. seriously:
Sen. Barbara Mikulski listened impassively as Robert Kennedy Jr. made his case. He had to talk over the din in the marbled hallway just outside the Senate chambers, where he was huddled with Mikulski, two of her aides and three allies of his who had come to Washington for this April meeting.
Kennedy, a longtime environmental activist and an attorney for the Natural Resources Defense Council, had thought Mikulski would be receptive to an issue that has consumed him for a decade, even as friends and associates have told him repeatedly that its a lost cause. But she grew visibly impatient the longer he talked.
Snip
According to Kloor, Mikulskis reaction was less than enthusiastic. Basically, she just referred RFK, Jr. to Sen. Bernie Sanders, because he cares about brain health and oversees a related subcommittee. Sanders reaction was at best noncommittal, perhaps because RFK, Jr. basically made threats if he doesnt get what he want. His threat? To publish his book! However, his threat was highly disingenuous, coupled as it was with the usual claim from antivaccinationists that theyre really and truly not anti-vaccine:
The normally voluble, white-haired senator was convivial, then, as Kennedy got going, fell silent. We dont want to publish this book, Kennedy told him, holding up a copy of his manuscript. We are very pro-vaccine. He motioned to Hyman across the table. Vaccines save lives. We dont want to alarm the public by showing them the science. We have a publisher lined up, ready to publish it. But we said no.
Much, much more at the link.
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/07/22/robert-f-kennedy-jr-still-an-antivaccine-crank-after-all-these-years/
David Gorski - Orac at Scienceblogs - has been writing about pseudoscience for more than a decade, but in the last few years has concentrated almost exclusively on medical woo. From his wiki page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Gorski
Orac knows his shit, and has Kennedy absolutely pegged for the anti-vax asshat that he is.
Sid
Octafish
(55,745 posts)You should learn more.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
Octafish
(55,745 posts)For those interested why it matters on DU:
Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy believed President Kennedy was killed by a conspiracy.
That's what his son and daughter, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. and Rory Kennedy, reported in an interview with Charlie Rose last weekend in Dallas.
It's also what author and Salon founder David Talbot reported, when he called Robert F. Kennedy the "first conspiracy theorist" in 2007.
Here's why the news from Robert and Rory is so important:
RFK called the Warren Commission report "shoddy workmanship."
Attorney General Kennedy knew about the Ruby-Mafia connections immediately, which is vital when considering the Mafia were hired by Allen Dulles and the CIA during Eisenhower's administration to murder Fidel Castro -- an operation which the CIA failed to inform the president and attorney general.
The interview with Charlie Rose marked the first time members of the immediate Kennedy family have voiced the attorney general's doubts about the Warren Commission and its lone gunman theory.
Those are the facts we learned Friday, Jan. 11, 2013. It's called history.
Original Post: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022194573
Archae
(46,325 posts)Second hand stories from an anti-vaccine nutcase.
I do realize that it's just IM-POSSIBLE for just one guy to have shot JFK in your view, and I realize you probably still worship anti-Semites like Oliver Stone and vicious anti-gays like Jim Garrison.
But in the 50+ years since JFK was killed, all the credible (as opposed to wild speculation) evidence points to one radical grandstanding murderer.
Lee Harvey Oswald.
The "magic bullet" is a lie.
The "grassy knoll" is a lie.
And RFK Jr's credibility is a lie.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Archae
(46,325 posts)That's all I know about the picture.
REP
(21,691 posts)America is not a monarchy and the Kennedys are not royalty. We owe them no fealty. You may tug at your forelock at the mention of the rum-runner's kin, but don't act so offended when others do not.
"you may tug at your forelock at the mention of the rum-runner's kin, but don't act so offended when others do not."
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Labels change the way we think about a person.
As for "tugging my forelock": I am an American. I bow to no one.
Respect? That's another thing. I've seen relatively few men who deserve it. RFK, Jr., is one who does.
REP
(21,691 posts)Detailing his extramarital affairs might be, but calling him a name based on his incredibly stupid and discredited opinions isn't assassinating his character. I'm sure you have some sort of macro that spits out "assassination" whenever "Kennedy" is keyed in, but really, this is a bit much for even you.
You don't think you grovel at the feet of all things Kennedy, because it is hard to recognize one's own behavior for what it is. You do not bow; you prostrate yourself and have no idea how ridiculous you look to those outside the cult of the criminal's family.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)REP: "You don't think you grovel at the feet of all things Kennedy, because it is hard to recognize one's own behavior for what it is. You do not bow; you prostrate yourself and have no idea how ridiculous you look to those outside the cult of the criminal's family."
BTW, you sound just like my father with "I'll remember this."
He's dead.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)He must have had a good memory.
REP
(21,691 posts)And he did have a good memory for petty things of no consequence and no mind at all for practical matters.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)But that hasn't stopped you.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)using online techniques to make something happen in the real or cyber world, including information ops (influence or disruption).
Source: https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/
The same NSA that unconstitutionally spies on Americans also gets to propagandize Americans.
So, yeah. It can't get more Orwell paid shill than that.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)Or they could be people with working understandings of science who find the anti-vax/Fukushima hysteria ridiculous and consequently have reasonable doubts about the opinions of any poster that buys into the aforementioned hysteria.
You're right, though, it's probably zebras.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)that's poetic brilliance, my friend.
Sid
REP
(21,691 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)then don't engage in anti-vax nuttery.
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Speaking strictly about this issue, his anti-vax wing-nuttery is well documented, substantiated, and proven factual.
What is it, exactly, that you seem to take issue with?
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Don't you think?
It seems like RFK, Jr. prefers to err on the side of caution.
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Of both what a smear is and what mercury was doing in vaccines.
Nonetheless, I don't wish to argue proven science with you, but if you would like to further discuss why the post we're discussing ISN'T a smear, you can start by trying to refute what I actually responded to you with.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Rather than insults, try to inform. It's the democratic thing to do.
So, how are you an expert?
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Then you tried to change the subject.
Why do YOU bother to reply? You don't seem to care about facts, science, or the actual definition of words.
Your accusations of insult only further demonstrate your unwillingness to address the issue at hand as you know you are simply wrong on all accounts.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Unless you add a link, I doubt there's really much there, "doctor."
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)That is what prompted my reply, yet you have not even addressed that at all.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)What makes you qualified to say it isn't?
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Speaking strictly about this issue, his anti-vax wing-nuttery is well documented, substantiated, and proven factual.
What is it, exactly, that you seem to take issue with?
Octafish
(55,745 posts)So, what are your qualifications to back up what was in the OP and to denigrate me above?
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Perhaps you don't like the author's choice of word, but that does not negate his anti-vaxx wing-nuttery.
So far, all you have done here is not like a word used that, while some may find iffensive, is accurate.
Is there anything of substance, other than your dislike of the word "asshat" that refutes this not being a smear?
Octafish
(55,745 posts)All it takes for the human body to go out of whack is one tiny particle. Take a person with an allergy. A few years back, a neighbor's wife -- a kindergarten teacher -- accidently ingested a sesame seed. She went into shock and almost died. While she came back to work a year later, her health never was the same.
There is a similar concern regarding many chemicals and elements like mercury having an impact on human health. Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine has done pioneering work on mercury's impact.
Now do you understand why I don't think a "Democrat" should be calling RFK, Jr. an "Asshat"?
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Anti-vaxx wing-nuttery is wholeheartedly deserving of every disparaging comment it recieves, regardless of political persuasion.
Those who espouse anti-vaxx wing-nuttery should be ashamed of themselves and are to be marginalized at every opportunity.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)If "asshat" is your only objection, as it seems to be, I'll bid you a good day.
Archae
(46,325 posts)In fact both can easily kill you.
But a compound, sodium chloride is needed for survival.
Salt.
Thus, mercury COMPOUNDS are not "poison."
Now get your nose out of "Natural News," "Age Of Autism" and Alex Jones, and try reading some actual science for a change, not hysteria.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)It's not good.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)"Now get your nose out of "Natural News," "Age Of Autism" and Alex Jones, and try reading some actual science for a change, not hysteria."
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)longship
(40,416 posts)Vaccines are very safe. RFK Jr.'s pronouncements about vaccines are not safe. He's a kook on the topic.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)Seeing how there's no longer a Meta forum, I'll go by that.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)You agree with his anti-vax views that are completely UNSUPPORTED by science?
BTW, I don't expect an answer to that question, so go ahead and divert away!
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Labels are tools of the propagandist.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Which is too bad since he is right on when it comes to the environment.
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)he is promoting a harmful cause.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)I first started reading Gorski at ScienceBlogs, and loved Steve Novella at SBM.
It was pretty cool to find out that Gorski at SBM was the same Orac at ScienceBlogs that I was such a fan of.
Sid
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Because he was a slacker as a kid, and did marijuana, therefore it's marijuana's fault he was a slacker?
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)He's been an anti-vaccine dumbass since his (now retracted) article appeared in Salon in 2005. I've been following his 'mercury in vaccines causes autism' crusade since then.
I'm glad to see that he's becoming more and more marginalized on that topic as the years go by.
Sid
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)I know that RFK Jr has been an pretty well respected environmentalist.
But, IMO, his 'vaccines cause autism' bullshit has more than outweighed any good he's done on the environmental front.
Sid
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)How could it? He is having zero effect with his anti-vaccine stance. He has done good things for environmental causes.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Yeah, he was great with his environmental stance, no doubt.
But being an anti-vaxxer AND having the ability to reach many people with that ridiculous, bullshit message can do quite a bit of harm.
It's a shame really.
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)People are dying because of anti-vaccine wing nuts. Childhood diseases not seen in years are making a comeback because some choose to believe the nonsense he and his ilk espouse.
It doesn't negate his work in other areas, but it does ruin his credibility.
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)But what he has done for the environment in the past still stands. That's all I'm saying.
a kennedy
(29,655 posts)This could curb Cheryl Hines enthusiasm to marry Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Kennedy may have been cheating on his fetching fiancée with Chelsea Chapman Kirwan, a Connecticut socialite and the wife of a prominent plastic surgeon, according to two published reports.
Citing sources close to the allegedly cuckolded husband Laurence Kirwan, The Daily Mail reported the two began stepping out before he and his wife separated in July 2012.
Thats eight months after Kennedy and Hines began dating and two months after Kennedys troubled second wife, Mary Richardson, hanged herself in a barn.
Kirwan, 62, who is based mostly in London but also maintains a Manhattan and Norwalk, Conn. practice, claims his 42-year-old wife and Kennedy met at a Connecticut gym.
The allegedly duped doctor claims it was Chelseas game plan to trade up to RFK Jr., according to the British paper.
Court records show the Kirwans, who live in Greenwich, Conn., are in the midst of the divorce.
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/rfk-jr-cheating-actress-fiancee-hines-report-article-1.1842281
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)I don't really care who he is or isn't sleeping with.
He's a nutter because of he thinks thimerosal causes autism.
Sid
progressoid
(49,988 posts)She's marrying him?
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)think
(11,641 posts)reduced to trace amounts.
Bold added for emphesis.
~Snip~
Introduction
Thimerosal is a mercury-containing organic compound (an organomercurial). Since the 1930s, it has been widely used as a preservative in a number of biological and drug products, including many vaccines, to help prevent potentially life threatening contamination with harmful microbes. Over the past several years, because of an increasing awareness of the theoretical potential for neurotoxicity of even low levels of organomercurials and because of the increased number of thimerosal containing vaccines that had been added to the infant immunization schedule, concerns about the use of thimerosal in vaccines and other products have been raised. Indeed, because of these concerns, the Food and Drug Administration has worked with, and continues to work with, vaccine manufacturers to reduce or eliminate thimerosal from vaccines.
Thimerosal has been removed from or reduced to trace amounts in all vaccines routinely recommended for children 6 years of age and younger, with the exception of inactivated influenza vaccine (see Table 1). A preservative-free version of the inactivated influenza vaccine (contains trace amounts of thimerosal) is available in limited supply at this time for use in infants, children and pregnant women. Some vaccines such as Td, which is indicated for older children (? 7 years of age) and adults, are also now available in formulations that are free of thimerosal or contain only trace amounts. Vaccines with trace amounts of thimerosal contain 1 microgram or less of mercury per dose.
In the following pages, a discussion of preservatives, the use of thimerosal as a preservative, guidelines on exposure to organomercurials (primarily methylmercury), thimerosal toxicity, recent and future FDA actions, and the conclusions of the Institute of Medicine's most recent review of thimerosal in vaccines are presented. This narrative on thimerosal contains references to the literature and links to other sites for readers who wish additional information; for quick reference, a number of frequently asked questions (FAQs) and answers are provided....
http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)In a thread just meant to slam a good person who has shown his only care is for the children? Good on you.
Imagine that if it was discovered that thimerosal did cause injury. The liabilities would be huge. You can then imagine that the companies faced with such liabilities would do everything they could to suppress the science.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)smart and interesting. If he is propagating this nonsense - that is very sad.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)It's a worthy take down by Gorski.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Whenever Kennedy is in the news, pushing his bullshit, you can count on Gorski / Orac to put up a post reminding everyone why Kennedy should be marginalized on the issue.
I'm sure there will be more as we get closer to the release of the Kennedy's book.
Oh, and if you want a free copy of the book, dumbass anti-vaxxer Jake Crosby is hosting it at his dumbass anti-vaxxer website autisminvestigated. Crosby thinks that Kennedy isn't enough of an anti-vax crank, and is accusing him of being part of the mercury-autism cover-up.
Truth really is stranger than fiction.
Sid
closeupready
(29,503 posts)Or do you just slam and smear people? Is this board your personal dumping ground for all your ridiculous negative juju? I didn't get that memo.
There's a reason people dislike you, and a big part of that is you poison the forums with this sourness.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Kick for the truth!
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)If one person takes this as an opportunity to inform themselves the thread will have served an important role.
Nothing untruthful was posted in the OP, no smears, no mis-information .... encouraging folk to act against their health and safety (as in railing against vaccination) is ridiculous (and dangerous ... especially when you have the publics respect and attention)
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid