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Fri Apr 6, 2012, 01:14 PM

USN Commander just confirmed on Andrea that the pilots had SAFELY ejected. My emphasis, not his. nt

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Arrow 25 replies Author Time Post
Reply USN Commander just confirmed on Andrea that the pilots had SAFELY ejected. My emphasis, not his. nt (Original post)
gateley Apr 2012 OP
rfranklin Apr 2012 #1
emsimon33 Apr 2012 #14
rfranklin Apr 2012 #20
emsimon33 Apr 2012 #23
rfranklin Apr 2012 #25
emsimon33 Apr 2012 #24
malthaussen Apr 2012 #2
gateley Apr 2012 #3
malthaussen Apr 2012 #4
MadHound Apr 2012 #5
leftynyc Apr 2012 #8
jeff47 Apr 2012 #9
gateley Apr 2012 #13
emsimon33 Apr 2012 #15
Codeine Apr 2012 #16
RebelOne Apr 2012 #19
Aerows Apr 2012 #6
leftynyc Apr 2012 #7
Aerows Apr 2012 #11
MadHound Apr 2012 #10
Aerows Apr 2012 #12
emsimon33 Apr 2012 #17
sudopod Apr 2012 #18
gateley Apr 2012 #21
sudopod Apr 2012 #22

Response to gateley (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 01:22 PM

1. I guess they don't go down with the ship...

 

Casualties expected on the ground.

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Response to rfranklin (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 05:50 PM

14. Why would they? The analogy is a false one

Goodness knows that having spent most of my life on a flight path for NAS Oceana near the Atlantic Ocean in Virginia Beach, I have no love for Navy jets! That said, if any one is to blame for this it is the Virginia Beach City Council which has permitted high density building right up to the edge of the air station despite the Navy's begging them not to do so over as long as I can remember.

Virginia Beach is bought and sold to the developers at the expense of the well being and safety of its citizens.

Ships are at sea. If they go down, they sink and rarely is there any likelihood of casualties except for those on board.

Planes fly over land and sea. If over sea, the likelihood of casualties other than those on the plane are insignificant. This is not so if flying over land, especially if that land is a highly populated resort area.

I know the area that the jet went down very well. Unless the pilot could have made it in the air for a few more seconds at jet speed where he would have been over the ocean, there is nothing BUT highly populated area for him to "aim" the plane--which I suspect he had no control, over.

Further, the jets automatically eject the pilots in case they are unconscious--again, unlike a ship.

Let's pray that there are no casualties and that the City Council of Virginia Beach and not the Navy or its pilots are held accountable as they should be! And this comes from someone who shakes her fist and screams at the jets as they fly over, hating the ear-splitting noise of their engines.

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Response to emsimon33 (Reply #14)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 07:22 PM

20. You sure know a lot for someone without credentials...

 

was that a Phoenix University degree?

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Response to rfranklin (Reply #20)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 08:20 PM

23. Actually, I do have an advanced degree from an R-1 university, rated among the top 25 in the nation,

not a for-profit university. However, I come from a military family and I spent most of my life living on one of the flight paths for NAS Oceana in Virginia Beach. I also dated several naval pilots, although I didn't marry one, and have been a friend and neighbor of many naval pilots. So, while I may not have whatever "credentials" that you feel I should have to post to this thread (which, by the way, most university degrees would not provide such credentials, anyway), I do feel qualified to post what I have posted. Further, your snarky comment was really not necessary; but if it made you feel somehow superior, then have at it!

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Response to emsimon33 (Reply #23)

Sat Apr 7, 2012, 09:13 AM

25. I once dated a flight attendant...

 

No, I don't feel superior. I was just making a joke and you have to spout off with your superior knowledge and advanced degree.

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Response to rfranklin (Reply #20)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 08:21 PM

24. P.S.

Observation and a bit of living would be enough to ascertain that a ship sinking and a plane crashing are not analogous: No advanced degrees necessary!

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Response to gateley (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 01:53 PM

2. I am doing a slow burn right about now

n/t

-- Mal

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #2)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 02:30 PM

3. Why? nt

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Response to gateley (Reply #3)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 02:46 PM

4. Pilot should not eject

But we'll wait for the Board.

-- Mal

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #4)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 02:49 PM

5. What do you mean a pilot shouldn't eject?

 

Of course they should, planes are expendable, pilots aren't. The pilots did what they thought they could, tried to make the beach, thought they had the plane pointed in the right way, and bailed out.

If pilots weren't supposed to eject, they wouldn't have them strap on parachutes, rigged the canopy with explosive bolts, and put in that little lever labeled "EJECT".

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #4)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 02:54 PM

8. You may want to reconsider

and self delete this post. Why on earth would a pilot not eject?

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #4)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 02:55 PM

9. Because........?

So far the reporting is the plane wouldn't respond to the controls.

So what, exactly, is the benefit of having the pilot yanking on a non-responsive stick until he dies?

Or is the pilot not a person?

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #4)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 04:18 PM

13. Are those the rules? The SOP?

I can see not ejecting if you still can control the plane, but if you can't -- can you eject then?


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Response to malthaussen (Reply #4)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 05:55 PM

15. Please be informed before you judge

As I stated above, having lived most of my life on the flight path for NAS Oceana, I HATE those jets and the noise that they make. However, I also know the area and there was no way to avoid hitting something given that the city council has sold its soul to the developers and has permitted high density building right up to the edge of the air station despite the Navy's begging them not to do so.

Further, I believe that the jet's eject the pilots automatically in case the pilots are unconscious. But even if they don't, I know from previous crashes in the city by Navy jets that the pilots do all they can to avoid hitting occupied spaces. This is simply a tragedy.

http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/local_news/va_beach/military-plane-crashes-in-virginia-beach

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #4)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 05:57 PM

16. WTF?

That's a straight-up idiotic thing to say.

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #4)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 06:08 PM

19. I am having a slow burn just reading your post. n/t

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Response to gateley (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 02:52 PM

6. I'm curious

Why are people upset that there weren't MORE casualties (the pilots are people too, you know) rather than FEWER?

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Response to Aerows (Reply #6)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 02:53 PM

7. What people?

Who are you talking about?

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #7)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 02:57 PM

11. In another thread

There were people griping because they didn't go down with the plane. Sorry I didn't make that more clear.

Oh, and look a few posts up. There is someone saying they shouldn't eject. I guess some people don't realize that pilots are human beings.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #6)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 02:55 PM

10. Because people have been exposed to too many movies

 

Where the hero stays with the dying plane, and somehow manages, despite hydraulic lines and electric wires being burned to a crisp, somehow steer the plane a couple of inches over the top of the apartment building and drops it into the ocean with his death being the only loss.

Most people don't realize that a pilot is supposed to, yes, do as much as they can, then point the plane in the right direction and get the hell out. The plane is expendable, the pilot, not so much.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #10)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 02:58 PM

12. That's what they are trained to do

And they are rigorously trained to eject at a certain point, so I certainly can't fault them for it. I believe there are some planes equipped to auto-eject pilots under certain conditions, too.

I was shocked when I saw in another thread people acting like they should have just let themselves be killed.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #10)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 05:58 PM

17. Right! But in Virginia Beach clearing occupied spaces is problematic

given that the city council has permitted high density building right up to the edge of the air station!

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Response to gateley (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 06:01 PM

18. PROTIP: If the plane is stalling out, then there's nothing that the pilots could do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stall_(flight)

There's nothing for the control surfaces to push against when this happens; the plane is either mostly or entirely out of control. If this occurs at a low altitude, this is doubly true, since there is no chance for the plane to reorient and recover.

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Response to sudopod (Reply #18)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 07:49 PM

21. Try to recover and you secondary stall all the way to the ground (if I remember my long-ago flight

training correctly).

I don't know if it stalled, though. Regardless of the findings, at this point no casualties (amazing!) and the injuries aren't life threatening. Again, amazing!

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Response to gateley (Reply #21)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 07:52 PM

22. At least there's that! nt

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