HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Alleged Teen Rape Victim ...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 12:41 PM

Alleged Teen Rape Victim Being Held in Juvenile Detention to Make Sure She’ll Testify



When you think of all the appropriate ways to treat a teenage victim of rape, putting them in a juvenile detention facility usually isn't on the list. Yet that is exactly what's happening in Sacramento, California, to a 17-year-old girl who is the victim of an alleged sexual assault. She's being held to ensure that she'll show up and testify at the trial of her alleged attacker, Frank William Rackley. The girl failed to appear at a preliminary hearing and again at his trial at the end of February, which had to be rescheduled as a result. The new trial has been set for April 23rd. She is in the state's foster care system and apparently has a history of running away. She's being held on a material witness warrant. She was seen by a judge on March 27th and has been in custody since then.

And now thanks to the ussc she can be stripsearched regularly.

http://jezebel.com/5899671/alleged-teen-rape-victim-being-held-in-juvenile-detention-to-make-sure-shell-testify

82 replies, 6455 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 82 replies Author Time Post
Reply Alleged Teen Rape Victim Being Held in Juvenile Detention to Make Sure She’ll Testify (Original post)
elehhhhna Apr 2012 OP
lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #1
Ecumenist Apr 2012 #3
lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #8
Ecumenist Apr 2012 #10
lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #13
niyad Apr 2012 #20
lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #25
niyad Apr 2012 #26
lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #28
Michelle1 Apr 2012 #82
Ilsa Apr 2012 #55
niyad Apr 2012 #4
snooper2 Apr 2012 #5
niyad Apr 2012 #15
snooper2 Apr 2012 #17
Auntie Bush Apr 2012 #54
lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #18
LanternWaste Apr 2012 #22
lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #23
sudopod Apr 2012 #38
LanternWaste Apr 2012 #19
snooper2 Apr 2012 #73
Auntie Bush Apr 2012 #53
Egalitarian Thug Apr 2012 #6
CreekDog Apr 2012 #66
lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #9
niyad Apr 2012 #16
sudopod Apr 2012 #40
lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #44
sudopod Apr 2012 #45
CreekDog Apr 2012 #57
lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #58
CreekDog Apr 2012 #60
sudopod Apr 2012 #64
niyad Apr 2012 #69
Ecumenist Apr 2012 #11
Are_grits_groceries Apr 2012 #27
lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #30
Are_grits_groceries Apr 2012 #33
lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #35
Are_grits_groceries Apr 2012 #36
lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #43
Are_grits_groceries Apr 2012 #68
sudopod Apr 2012 #39
lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #41
sudopod Apr 2012 #42
treestar Apr 2012 #74
LadyHawkAZ Apr 2012 #48
CreekDog Apr 2012 #56
Ecumenist Apr 2012 #2
get the red out Apr 2012 #7
Zalatix Apr 2012 #12
rug Apr 2012 #14
qazplm Apr 2012 #21
elehhhhna Apr 2012 #34
malthaussen Apr 2012 #24
LadyHawkAZ Apr 2012 #29
Odin2005 Apr 2012 #31
stevenleser Apr 2012 #32
sudopod Apr 2012 #37
niyad Apr 2012 #70
WolverineDG Apr 2012 #46
sudopod Apr 2012 #47
WolverineDG Apr 2012 #49
sudopod Apr 2012 #50
LadyHawkAZ Apr 2012 #52
WolverineDG Apr 2012 #61
LadyHawkAZ Apr 2012 #65
sudopod Apr 2012 #67
sudopod Apr 2012 #51
WolverineDG Apr 2012 #59
sudopod Apr 2012 #63
CreekDog Apr 2012 #62
WolverineDG Apr 2012 #76
CreekDog Apr 2012 #78
CreekDog Apr 2012 #79
WolverineDG Apr 2012 #80
CreekDog Apr 2012 #81
treestar Apr 2012 #75
WolverineDG Apr 2012 #77
MineralMan Apr 2012 #71
flvegan Apr 2012 #72

Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 12:44 PM

1. And yet, if she doesn't testify, Mr Rackley will be free to reoffend.

The needs of the next victim are best served by ensuring that this victim testify.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 12:46 PM

3. And you don't think that there is a better alternative to JAIL for this girl who has already been

traumatised? REALLY??!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ecumenist (Reply #3)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 12:58 PM

8. I don't know.

I do know that the article indicates that she's failed to appear twice now.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #8)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 01:00 PM

10. See here's the problem....This poor girl has issues that predate that rape. For all we know, she's

been molested or flat out raped before. SHE COMMITTED NO CRIME! She shouldn't be in prison. Wrong way to approach this situation COMPLETELY.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ecumenist (Reply #10)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 01:06 PM

13. Failure to appear in court is a crime, for the very reason I gave above.

Is there a better way? Maybe not.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #13)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 01:27 PM

20. please cite the relevant statutes that failure of a prosecution witness to testify is a crime.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #25)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 01:45 PM

26. thank you--now show where the rape survivor got a subpoena

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to niyad (Reply #26)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 03:36 PM

28. That's enough pro-bono research for one day.

But the OP article provides a couple of hints to help you in your research.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #13)

Mon Apr 9, 2012, 08:33 PM

82. Sacramento court is a joke.

Yes failure to report to court is a crime but she shouldn't be in jail in the first place it should be her choice if she wants to testify or not. We are talking about Sacramento through and this city lets out sex offenders everyday this city is the biggest joke and judges break the law all the time in this city. One of them was even a sex offender himself that is no longer on the bench so whats the point of having her go to court the guy will just get away with it or put in jail for maybe a year if that. Sacramento court is the biggest joke the only one who may beat us would be San Francisco court. This state is a joke.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #8)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 08:55 PM

55. She's 17, a minor. Maybe she should be in witness protection.

Maybe she missed her other dates because she doesn't have a car. Maybe she was in school. Maybe with her adolescent brain, none of what "the man" says makes any sense to her. My guess is that her judgment is impaired from molestation or the rape.
Jail seems like a harsh way of treating a rape victim to get her to testify.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 12:47 PM

4. dear goddess, PLEASE tell me you forgot the sarcasm icon.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to niyad (Reply #4)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 12:49 PM

5. What would you recommend they do?

Ask come to trial and testify pretty please again?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to snooper2 (Reply #5)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 01:17 PM

15. so you recommend that rape survivors, who have been victimized not only by the perp, but probably

by a system that does not deal well with rape survivors, be jailed to make sure they testify? Please list all the other physically violent crimes for which the VICTIM is jailed to ensure testimony? particularly that of a MINOR child (legal definition of anyone under 18)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to niyad (Reply #15)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 01:23 PM

17. No, it doesn't work like that, I asked a simple question-

What's another option-

YOU reply with a better way. So the girl is continually running away and sounds like my co-worker's 16 year old daughter who is going down all the wrong path.


What's another option so this fucker that raped her doesn't get away.

WHATS ANOTHER OPTION?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to snooper2 (Reply #17)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 08:44 PM

54. As I said earlier. An ancle bracelet work fine. No running away from that!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to niyad (Reply #15)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 01:23 PM

18. You didn't answer her question.

Short of imprisoning people without a trial, there's no alternative to compulsory testimony.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #18)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 01:28 PM

22. You believe there are two and only two alternatives?

You believe there are two and only two alternatives? That there are indeed and in fact, no other possible answers?

Or do we admit that, even though no one in a thread has been able to compile a thoughtful, humane and personable alternative in fifteen minutes, that there are indeed numerous possibilities that we may not see.?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LanternWaste (Reply #22)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 01:31 PM

23. No, there's a third alternative. Perpetrators walk free. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #23)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 05:39 PM

38. How do you suppose that this will affect reporting rates for the crime?

How many perpetrators do you suppose will walk free on account of that?

Do you know what fraction of rapes are reported in the country, Jeff?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to snooper2 (Reply #5)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 01:26 PM

19. I imagine a small mind would indeed see only these two alternatives...

I imagine a small mind would indeed see these as the only two alternatives...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LanternWaste (Reply #19)

Sat Apr 7, 2012, 12:31 PM

73. Thanks for the great contribution to the thread!

not quite as good as Auntie Bush #53 actually making a suggestion, but witty nonetheless...

Bravo Bravo

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to snooper2 (Reply #5)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 08:41 PM

53. Put an ANCLE BRACELET on her. Simple solution!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to niyad (Reply #4)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 12:50 PM

6. Stunning, isn't it? n/t

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #6)

Sat Apr 7, 2012, 12:14 AM

66. it's incredible

stunning.

though one of them doesn't surprise me at all.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to niyad (Reply #4)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 12:59 PM

9. No sarcasm.

I hope that if she chooses not to testify again, that the next victim is not you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #9)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 01:19 PM

16. ohhhh, nice touch there, really. I hope that none of your loved ones ever faces this dilemma, too.

such tenderness and concern for the possible next victims, and not one DAMNED bit of compassion or concern for the current MINOR CHILD victim.

but then, sadly, I am not surprised.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #9)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 06:03 PM

40. You're really toeing the line there, friend. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sudopod (Reply #40)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 06:41 PM

44. If so, it's a line that needs to be crossed.

If the defendant is guilty and reoffends because the victim refused to honor the subpoena to testify, then subsequent victims deserve some empathy too.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #44)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 06:47 PM

45. hmm. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #9)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 09:10 PM

57. please point us to all the posts advocating for rape victims at DU

you have such a long record of advocating for women, don't you?

or are you using this thread as an opportunity to justify the imprisonment of a woman?

seriously.

i've never seen you post in a thread in favor of women's rights, why is THIS thread motivating you?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CreekDog (Reply #57)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 09:15 PM

58. How about... "no". Does "no" work for you? n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #58)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 09:19 PM

60. "No" as in there aren't any --yes, we know

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CreekDog (Reply #60)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 09:27 PM

64. lol

he would have been smarter to have not replied at all.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CreekDog (Reply #57)

Sat Apr 7, 2012, 10:34 AM

69. he isn't posting about women's rights at all. what he is doing is blaming a female (since this

particular person is not yet a legal adult) for anything that the PERP does from here on out. His "concern" for potential victims appears to be somewhat hypocritical, since he demonstrates NO concern for the young person in the OP.

but then, that doesn't surprise me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 01:01 PM

11. Lumberjack, do you have children?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 02:09 PM

27. Can you imagine the harm this will do to reporting future rapes and testifying?

Women will be even more reluctant to report them IMHO.

They won't remember the details. They will remember 'Locked up to testify.'

I would have second thoughts if I even had a hint that this DA would go even further and lock others up. He is jeopardizng the trust people may have.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Are_grits_groceries (Reply #27)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 03:55 PM

30. We want people to report victimization because that's how we imprison offenders.

It really doesn't do much good to encourage people to report crimes if they subsequently refuse to testify.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #30)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 04:44 PM

33. What?!

Reporting being raped can be enormously traumatizing. The rape kit process is humiliating even when handled by the best people.

You act as if this is the easiest thing in the world to do. It can be extremely stressing to testify and face the rapist.

Any crime is bad. Rape can create a living hell for a survivor. You might not be callous, but your attitude certainly lacks empathy and understanding.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Are_grits_groceries (Reply #33)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 04:56 PM

35. If the guy is guilty, I want him put away.

My understanding and empathy is constrained by that overriding issue.

I would not be a judge who says; "You're free to go, because your victim doesn't want to testify."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #35)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 05:31 PM

36. I want you to talk to a

Rape crisis counselor or somebody with experience with rape victims so that you can get a clue.
Seriously, before you spout off like you just did, you need to find out what victims go through.

I never thought I would read such callousness on DU about women who are raped.

smh


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Are_grits_groceries (Reply #36)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 06:36 PM

43. My late sister was kidnapped and raped in Dallas in 1970.

She escaped, contacted the police and testified. The rapist was convicted of not only kidnapping and rape but also at least one previous murder.

I'm sure that testifying was hard, but it saved the life of his next victim.

I do have a clue.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #43)

Sat Apr 7, 2012, 03:10 AM

68. I am sorry your sister had to go through that.

I am also glad she was willing and able to testify.

My suggestion about talking to a rape counselor stands. Not all survivors are the same and as strong as your sister apparently was.

What if your sister had not been strong enough to testify? What if the DA locked her up to keep her from hiding out?



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #35)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 05:43 PM

39. Have you ever read "The Authoritarians" by Bob Altemeyer?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sudopod (Reply #39)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 06:10 PM

41. I'll take your word for it.

Is there a reason you recommend this, or am I to assume that my desire to see rapists imprisoned after a legitimate trial is somehow evidence of authoritarian tendencies?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #41)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 06:13 PM

42. Did you know that suspending empathy in favor of punishment

is a "red flag" for an authoritarian mind set?

You might find it very interesting. It's an easy read. Also, it's free.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Are_grits_groceries (Reply #33)

Sat Apr 7, 2012, 12:36 PM

74. One can sympathize with the victim while still realizing

that the victim has to testify in order to convict the perp - there's no other way.

This is a problem but it's not solvable unless we are going to convict people just because they were accused.

Sometimes the witnesses are even younger children.

It is traumatizing to testify and "relive" the whole thing. But realistically it has to be done. What else can be done without offending our ideals regarding the justice system?

It's like saying it's too traumatizing to go to a hospital and go under the knife to have your bursting appendix out. We humans just have no other alternative to solve the problem.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 07:41 PM

48. Granted, I'm not a lawyer

but I would think that her refusal to testify, and the state jailing her for refusing to testify, are providing a pretty nice argument for the defense anyhow.

That aside, jailing a victim- rape or otherwise- sets a bad precedent.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 09:06 PM

56. if it's being done to a woman, you have a history of not advocating on her behalf

hey, it's your posting history.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 12:45 PM

2. I'M HERE IN SACRAMENTO!! THAT'S HERE??! I hadn't been watching the news and had no idea. OMG!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 12:51 PM

7. There has to be a better way

She's committed no crime, there has to be a better way of protecting her and ensuring that she testify than to treat the victim like a criminal. Someone in the "system" is surely intelligent enough to figure something out other than this.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 01:02 PM

12. My reply to the authorities who are doing this:

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 01:08 PM

14. There was a case like that in PA.

She made allegations against her stepfather. Recanted. Her mother supported her. The county, with the aid of the State Police, filed a neglect petition against the mother and removed the child to foster care. While in foster care, she recanted her recantation and testified against him at the preliminary hearing. After she testified she was released back to her mother. At which point she promptly recanted her recantation of her recantation. At trial, she testified nothing happened. The prosecutor then impeached her with her preliminary hearing testimony and the jury convicted.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 01:27 PM

21. so at this point

you have someone who wont show up to hearings, and who is being held against her will until she testifies...

what jury is going to convict this guy now with those facts? It would have to be a slam dunk case to get a conviction at this point.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to qazplm (Reply #21)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 04:51 PM

34. Or not. One can imeach the testimony of a hostile witness.

She's been pre-emptively imprisioned in order to compel her testimony.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 01:31 PM

24. Here we are at the sharp edge

Where there is a question of a crime against a person, and a crime against the State. Which takes precedence, the rights of the victim, or the rights of the State? Obviously, the State believes the latter, more than likely anyone with children would believe the former.

It's all very well to say "there must be a better way," and it probably gives a warm and fuzzy feeling to say it. But unless one can actually come up with the better way, it's kind of a pointless statement.

-- Mal

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 03:48 PM

29. /facepalm

FFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 03:58 PM

31. There's got to be a better way than putting the VICTIM in jail.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 04:03 PM

32. OK, so here is the better way, witness protection.

If a mob captain turning states evidence warrants a nice apartment with round the clock protection, this girl warrants a nice apartment with round the clock protection that will make sure she testifies.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 05:37 PM

37. There's one way to pretty much guarantee that no one will file charges for rape.

What is wrong with these people?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sudopod (Reply #37)

Sat Apr 7, 2012, 10:42 AM

70. maybe that IS the point??

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 06:52 PM

46. She failed to appear for court

without her testimony, the defendant walks. Which is worse?

She's in juvenile detention, not jail, where she has access to getting an education & counseling (which she needs).

It's also highly likely that the State did everything possible to avoid holding her as a "mat wit" but her repeated failure to show up to court forced them to do otherwise.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WolverineDG (Reply #46)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 07:35 PM

47. "Which is worse?"

That's rather the point, isn't it? A very important question.

Do you, for example, know what defense attorneys do to rape victims?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sudopod (Reply #47)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 07:59 PM

49. Hello, I'm an attorney



It seems to me that you can't demand rapists be punished & on the other hand, bend over backwards to excuse victims from testifying or appearing at trial. In our system of jurisprudence, you actually have to PROVE a crime was committed & not just ALLEGE one was.

As for "what defense attorneys do to rape victims," that called "Right to confront witnesses." It's in the Bill of Rights; might want to check that out sometime & get back to me on that.

From reading the article, it appears this victim skipped more than one court appearance which prevented the case from moving forward. She left the State no other option. It's either hold her as a "mat wit" or let the defendant go free & possibly offend again. Which would you prefer?

Sorry for not buying into the "victims can't be held accountable for their actions for anything ever" meme that's popular on DU.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WolverineDG (Reply #49)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 08:07 PM

50. I'm not asking for an analysis of the law, nor was I checking your credentials.

I was not suggesting that they let the defendant go scot free.

The point is that perhaps the need for a little empathy is indicated. As a poster above said, there are alternatives that also work within the system. A nice hotel room, like prosecutors would arrange for a mob hitman who turned state's evidence on his organization, for example. Perhaps some aid getting psychological counseling after being assaulted and violated, but before a hostile stranger demands the gruesome details in public. And so forth. Rather than just, you know, jail.

But please, don't let me stand in the way of being a hardass on the internet.

EDIT: How different is juvenile detention from jail?

EDIT 2: I'm sorry I flew off the handle a bit. Emotions are high, but it weren't right.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sudopod (Reply #50)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 08:23 PM

52. "How different is juvenile detention from jail?"

Depends on where you are. Smaller areas have much better juvenile facilities than they do jails- good staff, decent treatment. In a larger city (like, say, Sacramento), the only real difference is in the age of the other inmates. Juvie in Sacramento is NOT the place to put this girl.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sudopod (Reply #50)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 09:20 PM

61. How many more times would you allow someone to ignore a court summons

before you would say they were being "empathetic?"

Push came to shove in this case.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WolverineDG (Reply #61)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 09:36 PM

65. A sex offender can qualify for an ankle bracelet.

A domestic abuser can qualify for an ankle bracelet.

A drug dealer can qualify for an ankle bracelet.

A rape victim- the prosecution witness- gets jail time? Why was this the first resort?

I'm wondering how strong of a case they had to begin with, if they had to go to these lengths for victim testimony.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LadyHawkAZ (Reply #65)

Sat Apr 7, 2012, 02:44 AM

67. +1, What you said. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WolverineDG (Reply #49)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 08:20 PM

51. A poster on the original article said it better than me:

mightyHee! @shemr

Um, yeah I know Volante was being sarcastic. I don't know if you noticed this, but their sarcasm was insinuating that I was suggesting that she not testify. Did you catch that? The sarcasm was not meant in good fun, it was meant as a challenge to my statements. And, no, it is not a best of two evils. You do not treat a fucking rape victim like a criminal. You just don't.

This court case could take months to go to trial and she will be in juvie the whole time, with actual criminals and treated just like the rest of them. She is being punished for being raped. Her running away was a natural response to the hell she was put through when she was raped and now she is being punished for her natural response to a traumatic event. It is not the lesser of two evils. They have other options for her, they just don't have a system in place that has much compassion for victims. It is prevalent in most cities because funding for victim services is often one of the first things to get cut when a city is low on money. This girl is being put through the ringer by system and she doesn't have to be. I bet they aren't even offering her a therapist while she is in juvie either. They usually don't. It's not right.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sudopod (Reply #51)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 09:16 PM

59. She's being "punished" for not showing up to court as ordered

or do you believe people should be able to ignore a court summons just because? This case has been delayed twice because she failed to appear.

And spare me the hysterics about the case going on for months & her running away because she's traumatized (unless of course you have first hand knowledge). Once she is done testifying, she'd be free to go.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WolverineDG (Reply #59)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 09:26 PM

63. :( nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WolverineDG (Reply #49)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 09:22 PM

62. she's a child

that you won't describe her as such, in fact, you describe her as an adult, really --certainly your expectations of her as that of an adult.

you are being unfair to this girl. you are going far beyond what the court action against her does --by describing her not showing up as some sort of willful character flaw.

completely unfair assailing of her character.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CreekDog (Reply #62)

Sat Apr 7, 2012, 03:56 PM

76. Once again, she was the one who failed to appear in court

twice.

Pointing that out is not a "completely unfair assailing of her character."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WolverineDG (Reply #76)


Response to WolverineDG (Reply #76)

Sat Apr 7, 2012, 04:35 PM

79. i don't see any point in arguing with you when you have no sense of proportionality

clearly, most others can see what i can see and you argue so unfairly that it takes successive posts to get you to acknowledge that she's a minor and then you refuse to say that makes any difference in how she should be treated.

you clearly have Stockholm syndrome with respect to deferring to judges, or this case would make it appear that you do.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CreekDog (Reply #79)

Sun Apr 8, 2012, 01:13 PM

80. I see no point in arguing with someone who never went to law school

You do know that in order to convict someone accused of a crime, you need witnesses & this new-fangled thingy called "evidence," right?

At least I'm not the one advocating for letting an alleged rapist free so he can offend again.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WolverineDG (Reply #80)

Sun Apr 8, 2012, 06:01 PM

81. You are violating an ethical code now

By saying that i advocated letting a rapist free, which i did not.

Also regarding law school, going to law school was supposed to augment your thinking and thougtfulness, not halt them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WolverineDG (Reply #49)

Sat Apr 7, 2012, 12:38 PM

75. It is odd to see

but what is really going on here is, "she accused him, that's enough." She should not "have to" go through the trauma of testifying, being challenged (cross examined). And that would be a terrible break from the Bill of Rights. We have to empower people who are victims to testify - it's their right to do that, it's the way they get justice - it's not a horrible thing that no one should "have to" do.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to treestar (Reply #75)

Sat Apr 7, 2012, 03:59 PM

77. On DU, mere accusations are enough

when the person making the allegations is from a favored group. So since many on DU apparently worship children, in this case, the victim should only have to say she was raped & that's enough to sentence the accused to death.

However, when someone favored by DU is accused of rape, the very opposite is true & the alleged victims are called "sluts," "whores," & worse.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sat Apr 7, 2012, 10:51 AM

71. A very difficult situation to discuss.

On one hand, there is a rapist who may go free. On the other, there's a young victim who is, quite naturally, reluctant to testify.

Why is she reluctant? It could be many things. She may know friends of the accused and know that they might retaliate against her. She may simply be fearful of the trauma a court trial will create. Jailing her as a material witness is a very extreme way to compel her testimony, and risky, since she may recant the entire thing.

On the other hand, the accused may have a long record of rapes and witness intimidation. Getting such a person out of society may be a very important thing. It seems to me that a D.A. would be very reluctant to put a material witness into custody, but may believe that is the only way to deal with a serious and dangerous criminal.

So, not having all the necessary information, I won't state an opinion about the situation. Since I won't ever have all the information, I'll just have to wait and see what happens, assuming that gets reported here.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sat Apr 7, 2012, 11:22 AM

72. Brilliant. So on cross, one could argue coercion.

Oh, and "detaining" her does indeed seem to ensure she'll show up. Doesn't mean she'll testify.

Idiots.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread