HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » "I Am Not Trayvon Ma...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 03:43 AM

"I Am Not Trayvon Martin" - powerful message from a 'middle class white girl'



That IS powerful!





46 replies, 5141 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 46 replies Author Time Post
Reply "I Am Not Trayvon Martin" - powerful message from a 'middle class white girl' (Original post)
Are_grits_groceries Apr 2012 OP
Zalatix Apr 2012 #1
leftynyc Apr 2012 #2
Lilyeye Apr 2012 #3
Are_grits_groceries Apr 2012 #4
MrScorpio Apr 2012 #5
urgk Apr 2012 #6
Are_grits_groceries Apr 2012 #8
urgk Apr 2012 #11
Iggo Apr 2012 #23
urgk Apr 2012 #39
Iggo Apr 2012 #42
urgk Apr 2012 #44
Are_grits_groceries Apr 2012 #24
urgk Apr 2012 #41
Are_grits_groceries Apr 2012 #45
urgk Apr 2012 #46
noiretextatique Apr 2012 #32
Schulz Apr 2012 #7
johnlucas Apr 2012 #9
Are_grits_groceries Apr 2012 #10
johnlucas Apr 2012 #12
Are_grits_groceries Apr 2012 #13
OneGrassRoot Apr 2012 #20
johnlucas Apr 2012 #29
OneGrassRoot Apr 2012 #31
Iris Apr 2012 #36
HopeHoops Apr 2012 #14
OneGrassRoot Apr 2012 #19
HopeHoops Apr 2012 #22
OneGrassRoot Apr 2012 #27
HopeHoops Apr 2012 #28
randr Apr 2012 #15
seabeyond Apr 2012 #16
Lucy Goosey Apr 2012 #17
OneGrassRoot Apr 2012 #18
Whisp Apr 2012 #21
Chalco Apr 2012 #25
magical thyme Apr 2012 #26
noiretextatique Apr 2012 #33
magical thyme Apr 2012 #34
noiretextatique Apr 2012 #35
magical thyme Apr 2012 #37
Tarheel_Dem Apr 2012 #30
varelse Apr 2012 #38
90-percent Apr 2012 #40
joshcryer Apr 2012 #43

Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 05:11 AM

1. Holy snap. I've fallen on my ass and I can't get back up.

 

That lady blew me out of my chair with the sheer awesome.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 05:23 AM

2. Wow

This young woman has been raised right. Her parents must be bursting with pride.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 05:35 AM

3. Great video!

I hate seeing this poor girl getting so many vile comments directed towards her. Nothing but stormfront types posting their garbage on her YT page. Well, at least the truth is on her side and she knows it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lilyeye (Reply #3)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 05:45 AM

4. I'll bet the RW haters jumped at that video.

They thought it was a screed on their side.
SURPRISE!
It was a video by a woman who has more brain cells than all of them added together.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 07:08 AM

5. This is a person who truly understands what's going on

Thanks for posting this, Grits

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 07:16 AM

6. Is the purpose of the shirts really...

..."to humanize these victims of our society by likening them to the middle class, white activist wearing it..." to " to us the arbitrariness of their deaths and, thereby, the injustice at play"?

Or, just to create an outward cohesion for those who share an inner conviction?

Either way, I can't wait until the "Hey! You're not helping the way I think you should help!" style critiques go away. Killing social momentum just doesn't seem helpful. Progressives need to learn activism judo, where we take the force generated by any movement by people whose hearts are in the right place, and just...divert it a little.

If you don't like the t-shirts, make a sign that, in context, makes them work better. Make better t-shirts. Use the energy, people, don't stifle it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to urgk (Reply #6)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 07:48 AM

8. I believe she is pointing out that

the t-shirts are not a substitute for prolonged and substantive action.

The t-shirts do show cohesion to a point and one to one particular issue. She is pointing out that there is a long way to go to really achieve meaningful change. If people just take those t-shirts off and don't stay in the larger fight, the Trayvons will keep coming.

I think she has a powerful and valid point. It is a critique of the way we protest, and IMHO a needed one. It jerks up a lot of self-satisfied people who look on t-shirts and marches as the be all and end all of social action. In fact, they are just the start.

Some people with those shirts won't like this. As we say, 'Hit dog hollers.' If people can't stand some introspection, then they will never make it through the real nastiness that is thrown at them. She isn't undermining the protests. She is asking for people to take a deeper look and plant their feet on a firmer and more lasting foundation.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Are_grits_groceries (Reply #8)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 08:44 AM

11. As I see it, there are two big questions here:

1. Does she make a valid point?

2. Is her message useful, regardless of its validity?

To answer the first, we'd have to know whether a statistically relevant number of white, "I Am Trayvon" t-shirt wearing activists who see the shirt as their only responsibility or mode of action. I have no way of knowing whether that's the case, and I imagine it'd be hard to get an answer based on something other than anecdotal evidence.

We'd also have to know whether only-wearing-Trayvon-t-shirts makes enough social impact to be useful. If just the appearance of cohesion and the strength of numbers is enough to effect social change, then the t-shirt-only activists are doing the rest of us a good service.

To answer the second, we'd have to know several things that can, perhaps, be summed up with one question: Does the cumulative effect of her message generate a greater amount of social change than would have been generated without it? And that one seems nearly unanswerable. But, my own view (having seen more than my fair share of young Americans who just can't be bothered to give a s****) is that anything that helps to overcome social inertia, toward greater justice, is more helpful than anything that helps to create it.

Whatever the answer, I couldn't be happier to see young(er) people who are socially engaged. I like seeing a smart, fiery young woman engaged in the process. And I appreciate the discussion she's spawned. But, I'm not so sure that hitting the dog, as you put it, is necessarily the most effective way of changing its behavior.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to urgk (Reply #11)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 11:07 AM

23. Yes and Yes.

That was easy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Iggo (Reply #23)

Sun Apr 8, 2012, 11:10 AM

39. Yes, having an opinion can be easy.

Supporting that opinion sometimes requires a bit of thought and a corroborating logical argument, or maybe even fact or two.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to urgk (Reply #39)

Sun Apr 8, 2012, 12:20 PM

42. Yes.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Iggo (Reply #42)

Sun Apr 8, 2012, 12:55 PM

44. :) (n/t)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to urgk (Reply #11)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 11:27 AM

24. 'Hitting the dog' is a metaphor for an idea or

whatever being put forward and then watch who hollers. Those who holler usually do so because there is a point made that hit home. I believe she hit that point when she pointed out in her way that t-shirts and other things are not enough.

She is questioning those who have ideas about how much they really understand about other lives. Some people believe that their social action gives them a complete understanding of others. Nobody ever undertands what it is actually like to be another person. Too many times the actions taken conform to what people think they know about others.

If she makes some people holler, good! Then they need to try to understand why, and I believe that means looking beyond the t-shirt issue.

You have asked if her argument is useful, regardless of its validity That last phrase neatly dismisses her argument. That sums up what is wrong with some social movements. Many people either can't or won't look beneath the surface which requires a deep look at themselves.

Doing the best you can to understand as much about yourself as possible is a must if you ever really want to even get close to understanding others.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Are_grits_groceries (Reply #24)

Sun Apr 8, 2012, 11:37 AM

41. Ah, I see your point about the "hit dog."

I'd completely misinterpreted the meaning. The phrase means that when she throws out her idea, only the whites-wearing-t-shirts-as-a-substitute-for-real-action will complain. Which is colorful, but a tad too simplistic to fully explain the situation. For instance, this is one dog, sitting at his keyboard, who would never buy a t-shirt to wear for a cause (it's just not my style), but who has been actively engaged in social justice for years.

Reiterating what I said in my last comment, without concrete evidence to the contrary, it's possible that any of the following may be true:

1. Those shallow whites-in-t-shirts are in such minority that the argument against them becomes a sort of straw man.
2. Those whites-in-t-shirts are having a positive effect, despite the shallowness of their actions.
3. Such a shallow sub-group may lose momentum and/or interest as a result of being chastised.
4. If 2 and 3 are true, there may be net loss of positive social action, rather than net gain. See: The Law of Unintended Consequences.

Which brings me around to this: "You have asked if her argument is useful, regardless of its validity That last phrase neatly dismisses her argument." I completely disagree with that premise. The 'regardless' in my comment means 'without any judgment one way or the other.' It's the exact opposite of dismissive. To read what I wrote as asking whether her argument is useful, given the fact that it is invalid is to distort the meaning unfairly.

To be clear, I'll re-state the question. "Without judging her argument to be valid or invalid, does it generate net positive social benefit?" It's not an easy question to answer, but it is an important one.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to urgk (Reply #41)

Sun Apr 8, 2012, 01:07 PM

45. Ah!

I think we both went sideways reading each other's posts.
I understand your regardless now.
I zoom around too fast at times.




Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Are_grits_groceries (Reply #45)

Sun Apr 8, 2012, 03:55 PM

46. Me too. I'm trying to learn, though. :) (n/t)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to urgk (Reply #6)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 05:11 PM

32. the point of her message: i am george zimmerman

or i could have been, if i chose to accept the racist indoctrination that i COULD choose as a white person in america. she is saying she does not accept that indoctrination. i think her message is spot on.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 07:47 AM

7. Wonderful

Wonderful

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 08:08 AM

9. Wow. This girl is BADASS!

I have to say as a Black man that I am impressed.
I know all Whites aren't racist but I DO think that most Whites are naïve about the reality of this system we live in.
That many of them are in a bubble. It's part of the social programming, what can you expect?

It happens to any favored group in a system.
I'm a tall man so I'm in a bubble when it comes to short men's issues.
I'm a man so I'm in a bubble when it comes to women's issues.

Favorite children are in a bubble when it comes to the feelings of unfavored children.
Social butterflies are in a bubble when it comes to the feelings of wallflowers.
Kids from the safe suburbs are in a bubble when it comes to the feelings of kids who live in perpetual war zones.
People in rich "first world" countries are in a bubble when it comes to the feelings of people from poor "third world" countries.
So much in a bubble that they use those terms I quoted WITHOUT quotes as if they were truth.
So much in a bubble that they don't even question the legitimacy of those terms in the first place.

Human beings just don't naturally know to step outside of their own skin & reflect on themselves & their conditionings.
It's hard to REALLY see things from someone else's point of view. To walk in another's moccasins.
It takes consistent practice & exercise just to be able to come to a viewpoint that this girl came up with.

She's addressing the system itself. She's getting at the ROOT of the problem not just trimming the branches.
She's busting into the configuration files & looking to excise these bad programs.

Honestly I don't expect many Whites to come to the conclusions she did. I'm happy that Whites even begin to understand a trace of the reality non-Whites live in.
To me that's progress considering how thick the bubble is.
So for her to offer this point of view is impressive.
John Lucas

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to johnlucas (Reply #9)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 08:12 AM

10. Did you go to Maryland?

Just checking.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Are_grits_groceries (Reply #10)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 08:47 AM

12. No. It's just life experience offline & online

Whenever racial issues come up you tend to see certain themes in people's responses.
I get a certain "I'm tired of talking about it" vibe from Whites whether that comes in the form of "Yeah here we go with the race card again. Why don't Sharpton & Jackson talk about injustices to Whites?" or "We're all members of the HUMAN race, black, white, red, yellow, brown, purple, green! Enough!"

The first response is possibly from a bigot with a distorted sense of victimization.
The second response is possibly from someone with heart looking for unity.
But BOTH want the conversation to stop cold.
...and things won't get better if the conversation stops cold.

The first one is oblivious willingly or not about why a Black History Month exists but not a White History Month, why BET (Black Entertainment Television) exists but not WET (White Entertainment Television). He's oblivious about the history of this issue & how it still affects the present day. All he sees is Whites giving up too many points to Blacks to even the score. He thinks the score is even enough & that Blacks should be thankful that Whites were gracious enough to give those points.

The second one thinks the strife can all end with a cheerful slogan or catchphrase. She may be well meaning & saying it because she hates discord in general or she has seen that strife escalate into violence in her life experience or she's trying to find common ground hoping the statement will cause a truce. It's either a well-meaning naïveté or a hopeful way to calm a potentially destructive storm.

But neither are effective in dismantling this ugly system. I like the second person's way MUCH better than the first person's but it's not enough even though it's a good start.

What this girl is saying is that we HAVE to recognize our differences realistically & not be a poser in the well-intentioned 'Trayvon Is Me' campaign.
The truth of the matter is when those activists leave those protest grounds they will go back to being the same well-protected suburbian kids they were before & they will be treated as such.

I'm 6 foot tall & I recognize the reality of heightism especially with short men. I protest it myself.
But at the end of the day I'm 6 foot tall & I don't live those experiences. I won't be disrespected & discounted like they will because I am the height that I am. The social reality did not change & my placement in this reality whether I chose it or not is still intact.

A thin person can recognize & protest the reality of fat discrimination but at the end of the day they are not fat & won't get the treatment that fat people get in this society.
It's like those fat suit experiments when somebody wears a bodysuit to make them look heavy & they see firsthand how it feels...
...but then they can take that suit off & go back to being the thin person they were & receive the treatment that thin people receive.

When the White activists leave the marches & protests, they can meld right back into society as White people despite their political allegiances. It's the same reason why White slaves became less & less used after they picked Black slaves. Whites can escape, move outta town & meld into society as one of the tribe. Black people stand out by default & have no chance of blending in.

This girl is talking about Privilege of which White Privilege is one of many.
John Lucas

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to johnlucas (Reply #12)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 09:01 AM

13. I agree.

We dismiss too many people's valid observations about their lives. We should listen more and try to understand whether we can truly experience their lives or not.

What may seem trivial to some can really be a big issue to others. Before ignoring what is said, it would behoove people to listen and try to relate.

While we never can truly experience what anybody feels, we should never quit respecting their viewpoints. We should be willing to support them. To get even a glimpse of somebody else's reality is to begin a journey of toward empathy.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to johnlucas (Reply #9)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 10:00 AM

20. Thank you, johnlucas...

I appreciate everything you wrote, and agree wholeheartedly.

As President Obama said years ago, we have an empathy deficit.

But the truth is that we have our own perspectives and perceptions based on our experiences -- the bubble you speak of -- so many times we can only attempt to put ourselves in the shoes of another. Many times we can't even begin to imagine what someone else's experience is like....and to be aware of that reality is the most helpful, compassionate thing we can do.

Damn...this girl's video and now your post have me in tears this morning for some reason....



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OneGrassRoot (Reply #20)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 12:56 PM

29. The fact that you have tears shows that progress is being made

It's hard to believe it but the world is MUCH better overall than it was 1,000 years ago.
Much much better than 5,000 years ago.
And even moreso better than 10,000 years ago.

We ARE improving.

I have found that the only reason we fight & war against each other is because of our blind spots to reality.
Our blind spots to reality in general & our blind spots to a "person's reality" or—better phrased—their life experiences.
In short, we're just dumb. Hahahahaha!

We don't have enough knowledge & the little knowledge we have we don't use it well.
At the root of every conflict is the phrase "I don't know".

The only reason human beings fight over resources is because "they didn't know" how to extend those resources, because "they didn't know" when those resources would run out, because "they didn't know" who was gonna take those resources first, & because "they didn't know" if there would be enough left after someone took from those resources.

So they get aggressive & fight over droughts. And whoever wins the most of the drought leaves the other ones dry. And better for you to be dry than me.
Fear comes from ignorance. Being afraid comes from not knowing. And when people are afraid they react with either flight or fight.
If they knew how much resources there were & how to extend the resources to prevent them from running out, there would be no fights. If everything was abundant, there would be no war.
If everybody had their Maslow Hierarchy fulfilled, who would want to fight?

This race thing is just another aspect of this phenomenon.
People clique up into tribes & anybody from the 'OTHER' tribe is a THREAT to my health & wealth.
They are going to take it all away from me!! And I'm not gonna run!! I'm gonna stop them!! I don't care how far I have to go to do it!!
They are NOT going to take it all away from ME!!!!!

Fear triggering the fight response.
Whole societies are built up on nonsense like this & roles are set up to be played by social engineers.
And people protect their parts in this play in various ways. Gotta make it to the final curtain after all.

But some people are improv actors. They're looking to add value to the role. Maybe transform the role itself. Maybe even change the play. They go off script & adlib held together by the mercy of the crowd as the director looks on in anger.

When tears are shed, the audience says "ENCORE! BRAVA!" as they rise to a standing ovation.
When you shed tears, OneGrassRoot, it shows that we ARE improving.
Bubbles are bursting.

Thank you for your empathy & I reciprocate.
John Lucas

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to johnlucas (Reply #29)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 04:32 PM

31. "Fear comes from ignorance...from not knowing"



Yes, yes, yes.

Thank you for all the brilliant words of wisdom and the kind reply.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to johnlucas (Reply #9)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 06:31 PM

36. I thought she made good points, too.

I was just thinking the other day that I choose every day to not be racist. And I know that even though I work at this, there are still things I do that are inherently racist, classist, or at the very least, simply insensitive. Sometimes I wonder what it would be like to be totally unaware but then I just can't imagine it. I've had enough life experiences to know better.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 09:22 AM

14. Holy SHIT! She sounds like one of my daughters!!!

 

- Damn did she sum that up well.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HopeHoops (Reply #14)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 09:58 AM

19. Me, too

I just forwarded to my daughter.

I'm in tears. Very powerful.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OneGrassRoot (Reply #19)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 10:34 AM

22. My eldest is in Budapest for the semester. Third time to Europe. Tough kid.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HopeHoops (Reply #22)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 12:40 PM

27. Dang...that's awesome. Mine wants to go to Thailand...

over Christmas. She just finished her first year of college.

Love these kids.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OneGrassRoot (Reply #27)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 12:45 PM

28. Mine's a junior this year. It's rough, but you have to cut them loose.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 09:23 AM

15. Wise words and well articulated-from all

Pointing out that the real problem is the sense of entitlement a group manages to turn into mass stereotyping takes the issue to the appropriate level. Everywhere you look around the whole world, people are led to believe they are somehow superior to and need to feel fear of "others".
The one thing I would wish to point out to the young woman is that the people wearing the shirts identifying with Trayvon are doing so as a reaction to their own sense of empathy. It is empathy that is lacking in society at large and the lack of empathy is what perpetrates the continuation of the stereotyping that leads to our irrational fears of other peoples.
Love IS all you need.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 09:28 AM

16. very very good..... yea. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 09:52 AM

17. Awesome!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 09:57 AM

18. Thank you for this. Sharing.

Has me in tears.





Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 10:09 AM

21. I hope someone at MSNBC picks this up for discussion.

 

It's such a powerful point it's worth the 'discomfort' of talking about it because no matter how we white people think we know and try to empathize, we just don't, we just can't. Not in this climate of indoctrination she speaks of.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 11:33 AM

25. Holy Crap. I'm sending this to everyone I know. eom

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 12:07 PM

26. very thoughtful, but I disagree with her basic premise

I don't believe the "I am Trayvon" tees are intended to prove that his death was arbitrary. I think everyone wearing those t-shirts recognizes that his death was anything but arbitrary.

I do believe they are a reminder that we are all human beings who simply want to the opportunity to live our lives. And that we demand the same justice for Trayvon as we would expect for ourselves or our loved ones, were they shot and killed for any reason.

I think most people, certainly those wearing the t-shirts, realize Trayvon died for committing the crime of being a young, black male.

The t-shirts are about equal justice.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to magical thyme (Reply #26)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 05:30 PM

33. i agree with her...and you

however, i think her premise was more about choice. she made it clear that she could be a zimmerman, if she made the choice to be one, but she could never be a trayvon. and she is right...she can never know what it is like to be a black male in america...neither can i. i know what it is like to be a black woman in america, but i do not experience the fear and hatred that black men experience. but she does know what it is like to be a white racist in america, and she made the choice not to be one. i really love her message.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to noiretextatique (Reply #33)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 05:54 PM

34. I'm on dialup and didn't have time to allow the entire thing to download. however,

I had a hard time accepting that she could be a Zimmerman.

It is one thing to have grown up in an atmosphere fear of men, especially black men.

It is quite another thing to deliberately choose to follow somebody that you have been taught to fear, first in a car and then on foot. Especially when the police have specifically instructed you to not follow them. I cannot believe that, even lacking education, etc. that she would have chosen to arm herself and follow somebody she feared. The vast majority of people, in that situation, would at most report the suspect to the police and then let them handle it. Especially given that is what they instructed Zimmerman to do.

She has less in common with George Zimmerman, a wannabe hero cop with a gun going after a "suspect," than she has with Trayvon, a young man preparing to go to college.

And there is evidence that Zimmerman was not racist. Much of what I have read about him suggests other motives in arming himself and following his "suspect," not the least of which was his desire to be a cop and failure to achieve that. I think he may have imagined he was going to be a hero, catching the neighborhood burglars, rather than a racist going after an easy, unarmed target. Delusional, and didn't wake up from his delusion until it was too late.

On the other hand, as a white woman I grew up in a white, middle class PA neighborhood in the 50s and 60s and my parents were rightwing republicans and racist. But I don't remember feeling particular fear of young black men, and in fact was good friends with several young men from Philly's inner city who used to come out our way and hang out with a friend's mother, who was a social worker.

I *have* been stalked by men in my life, and in every case but one, the man was white. The exception was an Indian in the US with an H1B.

I have *never* felt the fear of a group of young black men that I consistently feel of groups of young white men. I have never been harassed by young black men, whereas I have been by young white men.

I understand what she is saying, but I don't think it accurately reflects this situation plus I think her inexperience shines through. All imho, of course.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to magical thyme (Reply #34)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 06:18 PM

35. your parents were racists, but you chose not to be a racist

and i am sure you had the option to be one, didn't you? you made a choice. and yes, this young lady could have also given in to the fear and hatred this society continues to spoon-feed those who are willing to accept it (faux new, limbaugh, etc.) hell...i could have become a radical NOI member, but i chose not to. zimmerman targeted, stalked, and murdered a young black man. i find it hard to believe he did that because the boy was wearing a hoodie. i think he did it because the boy was black. zimmerman may have some black friends, but i believe he profiled, stalked, and murdered Trayvon because he was black. and honestly...in america, that is not really a far-fetched notion. if he killed him in 1952 instead of 2012, the only people who would be crying foul would be the black community. it probably wouldn't even have made the national news. and no one would be surprised that zimmerman was not arrested. and if by some miracle he was arrested and put on trial, and all white jury would probably acquit him. and in that respect, we have not grown very much as a nation. if he is ever arrested and charged, and all-white jury might acquit him in 2012.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to noiretextatique (Reply #35)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 07:48 PM

37. exactly. I chose as this young woman chose

to not be racists.

I think it is entirely possible Zimmerman is racist, and it's entirely possible that he is not, and that he followed Trayvon because there were police reports of burglaries committed by a black man and Trayvon was black, so fit the description.

If the letter published today, purportedly from a family member to the NAACP, is true about Zimmerman's past involvement with the black community, then he is not racist. That is, of course, a big if. And the police handling afterward was blatantly and unequivocally racist.

It is entirely possible he won't be charged, it is possible he will be charged and be convicted, it is sadly too possible he will be charged and be acquitted.

Regardless, I don't think he ever will be free. He will be in hiding and looking over his shoulder no matter the outcome of the trial, because no matter what that SYG law, this killing was a murder and is viewed as such by such a large number of people.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 12:57 PM

30. I may have more to say on this later, but this young lady brought tears to my eyes.

She speaks truth.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2012, 08:01 PM

38. She's right

It is always easier to identify (and empathize) with the innocent victim than it is to see yourself as aligned with the guilty perpetrator.

My guess is that most people aren't going to make that transition.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Sun Apr 8, 2012, 12:34 PM

43. That is so great, I can't believe that I missed it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread