Demands for Facebook passwords will ultimately cost employers money

[IDemo]

The latest outrage du jour - demands by prospective employers for a job applicant's Facebook password, has caused quite a bit of consternation but a general acceptance that, short of telling the employer to FO, there exists no remedy. There seems to be a bit of confusion over the issue here.

First off, the Facebook terms of service agreement and others like it are in fact legal contracts and have been recognized as such. They don't reside on a lower tier legally than any other contract. When you click "I Agree", whether it's to the Facebook user terms of service or to a purchase agreement for rubber garden shoes, you have become a party to a contract and have agreed to its terms.

http://www.internetlibrary.com/publications/cwahe_art.cfm

One of the terms you agree to as specified by Facebook on its terms of service page is that you will not give your password to others: You will not share your password, (or in the case of developers, your secret key), let anyone else access your account, or do anything else that might jeopardize the security of your account.

http://www.facebook.com/legal/terms?_fb_noscript=1 (see line 8 under "Safety&quot

When a prospective employer tells you they need your Facebook password, they are attempting to cause you to break the terms of the contract you agreed to above. They don't need to be a party to the contract or even agreeable to its terms (which obviously they are not). Any attempt by a third party to coerce a password out of a FB user constitutes "wrongful or tortious" interference and is grounds for legal action.

http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/wrongful-or-tortious-interference-with-contracts.html

If a job interview is ended upon a refusal to yield a FB password and no job offer results (ya think?), there exists very good cause for the job applicant to pursue a civil case. The job applicant is the plaintiff here, not Facebook.

It will only take one or two high-profile cases such as this to occur and for damages to be awarded before the practice becomes too toxic for HR departments to continue using. It's only a matter of time before this happens, IMO. Facebook announced they would sue and curiously backtracked only a day or so later, but they are obviously unhappy with the practice. Of course, as has been mentioned elsewhere, they could probably put a quick end to this by terminating the FB accounts of companies who engage in this behavior.

My more cynical side could see Congress approving legislation to excuse employers from civil actions over social networking password demands, but that would mean they basically want to upend some core tenets of civil law. Don't see it happening..

[hlthe2b]

1. So what happens if you (truthfully) tell them you don't have a FB account?

Are they just going to assume you are lying to them? Is there a way for them to know whether or not you have a FB account with assuredness or will they just assume you are refusing? If so, I guess some of us are "screwed" either way.

[IDemo]

5. If you have an account, I believe they can at least find it

But depending on your settings, they may not be able to view any of its content. That's assuming the account is under your real name.

Lest anyone think I'm a FB expert, I don't have and won't have an account.

[MadrasT]

26. Actually

You can make your Facebook account completely non-findable using both Google and Facebook search. You only appear to people you are "friends" with, and you aren't even visible on other people's public "friends" lists. Someone can type your name into Google or the search box on Facebook and you don't show up at all.

That being said, my own approach to Facebook is that I don't post anything there that I wouldn't want to show up on the front page of the Philadelphia Inquirer. Or that would embarrass me if it got mass-emailed to my entire company.

[arbusto_baboso]

2. My reply, if I were a job candidate asked by an employer for my FB password....

(Which is a hypothetical situation in the extreme, as I am in a solid job, and have no Facebook account), would be "I'm not going to give you that. Because I'm a LOT more afraid of Facebook and its lawyers than I am of YOU."

[bart95]

3. a quick tutorial on job applicant rights

there arent any

nothing happened to these people below

immigration attorneys from Cohen & Grigsby explains how they assist employers in running classified ads with the goal of NOT finding any qualified applicants, and the steps they go through to disqualify even the most qualified Americans in order to secure green cards for H-1b workers

[Lionessa]

4. Read one yesterday where a person went ahead and did

offer the password, but there was information on the page that presented him as being in a group protected by anti-discrimination clauses and sort of forced the HR person to hire him or face a lawsuit since she forced the info from him through the password request.

Probably not a real situation, though it might have been, but this aspect could actually also cost them plenty.

[IDemo]

6. That's actually a great tactic and another option for dealing with this

I'd like to see a flood of people doing this.

[Lionessa]

7. Here's a link to the DU OP

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002509418

[tblue37]

33. But that was in Canada, where people still have some rights

that corporations don't have.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

8. Every day I get happier and happier that I HAVE NO FACEBOOK PAGE! I'm thrilled, in fact. nt

[Speck Tater]

9. Absolutely! Never had a Facebook page, never will. nt

[Sarah Ibarruri]

14. Same here, and I'm glad to hear from someone else that thinks Facebook is trash. nt

[jeff47]

10. Companies are also going to get sued for discrimination

Hey look, the Facebook page reveals you're 50% Cherokee, you're a lesbian, you have 1 kid and another on the way, you're a vet who was discharged because you are considered partially disabled due to a hip injury.

That's an awful lot of ways to sue if you're not hired.

[KurtNYC]

11. They don't need your FB password

as they can monitor ALL of your internet use while on the job. They have invariably captured your FB password robotically if you logged in on their computers. They can key log everything you do while at work.

Which employers are demanding PWs? Why?

[IDemo]

15. This is usually prior to being on the job, during an interview

And that would assume employees have on the job internet access and would choose to Facebook during work hours. I can't find a list of employers who have done this, but apparently it's growing. There is a current story about a teacher's aid who was fired by the school district for refusing to yield her password.

The reason they are doing this is to snoop on an applicant's Friends, Likes and/or private postings to try to weed out "undesirable" behavior or mindsets.

[KurtNYC]

20. Found 2 examples

A corrections officer in Baltimore reports his employer demanded his PW and:

""He then proceeded to log in to my account using my private credentials. I asked him, 'Why are you logging on?' He said, 'I am looking through your messages, on your wall and in your photos to make sure you are not a gang member or have any gang affiliation.' "

and

"Justin Bassett, a New York statistician who said that, during a job interview, the interviewer pulled up his Facebook page and asked for his password. He said he refused."

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/22/tech/social-media/facebook-password-employers/index.html

The teacher's aid is Kimberly Hester who posted a picture of a co-worker with their pants down and then a parent, who was on her friend list, reported it to the school:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/teacher-aide-suspended-giving-employer-facebook-password-article-1.1055571

So the school could have viewed the page without her giving up her password -- the parent could have screen cap'd it or logged in and showed it to the school live. If school officials don't understand how FB works then they are headed for legal trouble which will cost the local taxpayers, AND they are in no position to help students gain the skills they need to live in 2012.

I'd like to be a fly on the wall when these luddites find out about Twitter!

[Whisp]

12. it's like an employer asking for your mailbox key

in your interview so they can go poking around your private correspondence before they hire you.

Same damn thing but some knuckleheads are still in the Pony Express days.

[-..__...]

13. They can get around that...

by having a prospective employee log into their account without having to divulge any password to an interviewer.

Another method they've been using is requiring the person to "friend" the interviewer.

[skypilot]

16. This will raise another issue...

...which has been touched on in other posts on this thread. Can an employer require an applicant to have a Facebook page? I think this could become an issue in addition to the whole password thing.

[-..__...]

17. Why not?

Unless it's specifically prohibited by law, an employer can set any condition of pre-employment they please.. or at the very least, sign-up for one after being hired.

All they would have to claim is that having a FaceBook account (or any other social networking site),is beneficial to increasing productivity and communications amongst employees.

[skypilot]

18. Well unless people have...

...gotten to the point where they just go along with anything and any request without protest, I think (I hope) that something like this WILL be specifically prohibited by law. If it isn't now I would hope that a future case would make it so.

On edit: I think it's quite a different thing to require an employee to set up a work-related Facebook account AFTER being hired if the employer thinks that this will increase productivity and communication. I think a line should be drawn at requiring someone to have a personal Facebook account and to provide you with the password for it.

[-..__...]

28. People are accepting a whole lot worse in the work place...

with little to no protest, and in the cases where they are/have been protesting, it hasn't resulted in anything positive.

Back when this bull shit came to light, I had been reading personal anecdotes (mostly from IT people), that some supervisors/employers had already been requiring their workers to maintain a FaceBook account (for the reason I posted earlier).

Others related stories of how HR types/supervisors/ even fellow workers were astonished that how could anyone not have a FaceBook account (I'm willing to bet this is mostly with a younger work force).

The attitude was how could anyone (especially in IT), be so behind the times or out of touch with society.

Fuck... I get strange quizzical looks from time to time when I tell people I don't have a cell phone.

[skypilot]

30. I think you and I are talking about...

...something slightly different, although the scenario you describe is still just as distasteful to me. What I'm getting from the OP--and other threads I've seen on this topic--is that prospective employers are assuming that applicants have a Facebook page and are requiring passwords. To me this means that they are demanding access to an aspect of your life that is separate from your employment with them and that in fact pre-dates it. That's different from maintaining a workplace Facebook page (although I find this requirement intrusive as well). And then there's the question of what "maintain" a Facebook account means. Do I have to post something everyday? How much do I have to participate in whatever Facebook thing is going on? Is Facebook replacing email? Either I'm not understanding some things or we are headed in a kinda scary direction.

On edit: I don't own a cell phone either. I have a land line phone and a computer with two email accounts. As far as I'm concerned, that's enough for anyone to contact me if they really want to. I get those quizzical looks too.

[Recursion]

19. Well, if your job description is "director of social media" it would be weird...

...for you not to have a Facebook and Twitter account.

[skypilot]

21. And if you job description is NOT "director os social media"...

?

[Recursion]

22. Then it's less weird; I still don't see a reason they couldn't require it

I mean, there are jobs that require you to have a car, or a cell phone.

[skypilot]

23. Owing a car...

...or cell phone doesn't allow people access to personal details of you life. And depending on the job and its location I'm sure most people would assume when they applied for it that they'd need one or both of those things. I see no reason that I should ever have to assume that I'd have to participate on Facebook as a prerequisite for getting a job. Frankly, I think it's a little scary that I even have to have this discussion.

On edit: And I'd imagine that no employer is going to make judgments about me based on how much I use or don't use my cell phone or car. What kind of judgments is an employer going to make if they see "gaps" in my Facebook activity?

[Recursion]

24. What's scary? You asked if an employer can require people to have a Facebook account. Sure, why not?

After all, these are people who pay you in order to be able to tell you what to do.

[skypilot]

25. I really, REALLY hope...

...that you are just yanking my chain. If you are being serious then we will have to agree to disagree because your worldview is apparently radically different from mine.

[Recursion]

27. Where's this an issue of worldview? Why can't an employer pay me to do stuff on facebook?

I don't get your point.

I mean, one of my duties at work involves managing my employer's social network presence, which requires an account. What's creepy about that?

[skypilot]

29. Ever since I posted:

And if you job description is NOT "director of social media"...I thought it was obvious I was talking about jobs that don't involve social networking and where you are NOT being paid to do stuff on Facebook.

[Recursion]

31. If they're not paying you to do it they can't make you do it. 13th Amendment and all

I mean, they can't make you fill out and use a Facebook profile and then not pay you for the time you're doing that.

But, I mean, yeah: an employer can tell you to fill out a facebook profile, just like he/she can tell you to mop the floor, without running afoul of the law.

[skypilot]

34. I don't think an employer ...

...should be able to make you fill out a FB profile since a FB profile, unlike mopping the floor, is something about you that is going out on the internet. People should not be forced to participate in any internet activity that they don't want to and that isn't part of their job.

[Recursion]

35. It's only "about you" if you make it "about you"

They can't make you put honest or accurate information on there (since they don't know whether you're being accurate or not).

[skypilot]

36. And I'm sure that...

...even they have thought of this (or would eventually think of it) so what would be the point of requiring anyone to have a FB account. The whole thing is not only intrusive and presumptuous but also stupid and pointless. I'm sure most people have better things to do with their time than make up and maintain a dummy FB page.

[Initech]

32. It will also cost employers good employees as a result.