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Sat Jun 21, 2014, 10:10 PM

Police shoot teenage special-needs girl within 20 seconds of arriving to ‘help’

Police shoot teenage special-needs girl within 20 seconds of arriving to ‘help’


HALF MOON BAY, CA — A family was crushed and a community is outraged after a call for help turned into a hasty death sentence for a disgruntled teenage girl with special needs.





On June 3rd, 2014, the Serrano family was having difficulty with a young female family member who suffers from a mental illness and depression. Yanira Serrano-Garcia, 18, had apparently gone off of her medication and became agitated and hard to control.

During past episodes, the Serrano family had called medical personnel to help them control Yanira. That Tuesday evening, they called the fired department for help once again. This time, however, police officers arrived instead of paramedics.

The family had instructed the dispatcher that the girl was acting erratically and wouldn’t put down a kitchen knife. San Mateo County deputies responded to the scene expecting to confront an armed suspect


http://www.policestateusa.com/2014/yanira-serrano-garcia/


112 replies, 3475 views

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Reply Police shoot teenage special-needs girl within 20 seconds of arriving to ‘help’ (Original post)
FreakinDJ Jun 21 OP
lumpy Jun 21 #1
FreakinDJ Jun 21 #3
Ed Suspicious Jun 22 #24
blueridge3210 Jun 21 #2
FreakinDJ Jun 21 #4
blueridge3210 Jun 21 #5
FreakinDJ Jun 21 #6
pitohui Jun 21 #9
FreakinDJ Jun 21 #11
blueridge3210 Jun 21 #10
FreakinDJ Jun 21 #12
blueridge3210 Jun 21 #15
FreakinDJ Jun 21 #16
Jenoch Jun 21 #19
FreakinDJ Jun 22 #20
Jenoch Jun 22 #21
FreakinDJ Jun 22 #22
Jenoch Jun 22 #28
pnwmom Jun 22 #46
blueridge3210 Jun 22 #48
pnwmom Jun 22 #50
blueridge3210 Jun 22 #52
Jenoch Jun 21 #18
Ed Suspicious Jun 22 #26
Jenoch Jun 22 #29
Ed Suspicious Jun 22 #32
Jenoch Jun 22 #34
LisaL Jun 22 #35
MADem Jun 23 #105
Name removed Jun 22 #64
MADem Jun 23 #107
nomorenomore08 Jun 21 #17
blueridge3210 Jun 22 #41
nomorenomore08 Jun 22 #83
blueridge3210 Jun 22 #84
nomorenomore08 Jun 22 #85
blueridge3210 Jun 22 #87
nomorenomore08 Jun 22 #88
blueridge3210 Jun 22 #89
nomorenomore08 Jun 22 #90
blueridge3210 Jun 22 #91
nomorenomore08 Jun 22 #92
pnwmom Jun 22 #45
blueridge3210 Jun 22 #47
MADem Jun 22 #54
Jenoch Jun 22 #65
MADem Jun 23 #104
Jenoch Jun 23 #106
MADem Jun 23 #108
Jenoch Jun 23 #109
MADem Jun 23 #110
nomorenomore08 Jun 22 #93
PoliticAverse Jun 21 #13
blueridge3210 Jun 21 #14
Ed Suspicious Jun 22 #25
avebury Jun 22 #97
etherealtruth Jun 21 #7
pitohui Jun 21 #8
Ed Suspicious Jun 22 #27
Jenoch Jun 22 #30
elias7 Jun 22 #57
Nuclear Unicorn Jun 22 #43
Comrade Grumpy Jun 22 #69
Ed Suspicious Jun 22 #23
Jenoch Jun 22 #31
Ed Suspicious Jun 22 #33
LisaL Jun 22 #36
Ed Suspicious Jun 22 #38
Jenoch Jun 22 #66
NutmegYankee Jun 22 #53
Jenoch Jun 22 #67
NutmegYankee Jun 22 #68
Jenoch Jun 22 #72
NutmegYankee Jun 22 #73
Jenoch Jun 22 #74
NutmegYankee Jun 22 #75
Jenoch Jun 22 #76
NutmegYankee Jun 22 #79
Jenoch Jun 22 #80
Jenoch Jun 22 #37
Ed Suspicious Jun 22 #39
geomon666 Jun 22 #40
Demo_Chris Jun 22 #42
pnwmom Jun 22 #49
blueridge3210 Jun 22 #51
pnwmom Jun 22 #55
blueridge3210 Jun 22 #59
Demo_Chris Jun 22 #95
pnwmom Jun 22 #96
Demo_Chris Jun 22 #98
Ed Suspicious Jun 22 #63
Demo_Chris Jun 22 #94
Ed Suspicious Jun 22 #99
Demo_Chris Jun 23 #103
GeorgeGist Jun 22 #44
99Forever Jun 22 #56
Lee-Lee Jun 22 #58
Sissyk Jun 22 #70
Beaverhausen Jun 22 #82
Jenoch Jun 22 #86
FreakinDJ Jun 22 #101
Lee-Lee Jun 23 #111
lumberjack_jeff Jun 22 #60
Name removed Jun 22 #61
CanonRay Jun 22 #62
Liberal_in_LA Jun 22 #71
bobGandolf Jun 22 #77
Initech Jun 22 #78
mstinamotorcity2 Jun 22 #81
Ed Suspicious Jun 22 #100
blueridge3210 Jun 23 #112
Demeter Jun 22 #102

Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 10:21 PM

1. God almighty are there no rational people to be had in some of these police departments?

I know this isn't an easy job and it must be difficult to find dedicated people willing to do the right thing in all instances.

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Response to lumpy (Reply #1)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 10:25 PM

3. USA - Home to the "No Fault Police Shooting/Murder"

Trieu, a 9-year-veteran, claimed that he feared for his life and had to shoot the “knife wielding woman” nearly immediately after arriving. A family friend, however, described the object she was holding as a “butter knife.”

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Response to FreakinDJ (Reply #3)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 12:50 AM

24. He should have backed the fuck away then he would have no reason to fear. Fucking idiot cop.

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 10:23 PM

2. Kinda hard to get an unbiased report from a website called "policestateusa".

The initial call by the family appears to be that she was off her meds, behaving erratically and holding a "kitchen knife". This could be anything from a butcher's knife to a paring knife. Later in the article it refers to a "butter knife" which could also be a "kitchen knife". Without knowing what exactly the young lady was holding it is hard to make an accurate judgment.

Pepper spray is a poor choice to confront a knife-wielding person; even a Taser can miss leaving the officer defenseless until they can draw their service weapon. One of the greatest challenges in dealing with the mental health population is to get them to understand the need to continue their medication program even when they "feel fine".

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Response to blueridge3210 (Reply #2)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 10:27 PM

4. "A Special Needs GIRL ?????

Oh that's right - some people like using girls for punching bags

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Response to FreakinDJ (Reply #4)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 10:34 PM

5. "Special Needs" does not mean "No Risk".

Patient on a MH medication program stops taking her prescribed meds; family calls to report her behavior is erratic and she is holding a "knife". The family appeared to call because they were unable to address the situation without outside assistance.

All I'm saying is the report is very thin on a few crucial details. It is certainly possible the responding officer overreacted. There is a serious issue with a lack of training on how to deal with mental health patients; this is especially critical with younger, less experienced officers. It is also possible that upon arrival the young lady attacked the officer with a deadly weapon and he responded according to his training. More details are needed to make an accurate determination.

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Response to blueridge3210 (Reply #5)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 10:37 PM

6. You Big Strong Police Man shooting little Girls like that

Just kinda gets your blood flowing thinking about it - don't it

Or is it an other reaction your having

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Response to FreakinDJ (Reply #6)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 10:44 PM

9. big strong police man where are you getting this?

i didn't see where the size was given but it did sound like based on his ethnic background the odds are decent that he was smaller than the woman

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Response to pitohui (Reply #9)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 10:57 PM

11. You ASSume a lot in your murderous cop apology

But unfortunately some people believe a "Call for Help" is the same as a "Call for Target Practice"

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Response to FreakinDJ (Reply #6)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 10:44 PM

10. Not so much.

A tragic situation all the way around. Clearly you made no effort to read my post. Must be convenient to have your mind made up without actually knowing what the facts are.

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Response to blueridge3210 (Reply #10)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 11:01 PM

12. Over 20% of ALL Police Shootings are Unarmed Citizens

Over 30% in some states

Perhaps you should do your homework first

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Response to FreakinDJ (Reply #12)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 11:15 PM

15. Unarmed also does not mean no threat.

Size disparity or other factors can come into play. Note that I have not said the shooting was justified, just that the first report was sparse on the details needed to make an accurate judgement.

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Response to blueridge3210 (Reply #15)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 11:19 PM

16. Of course it was justified - He said "He was in Fear" - after the fact

Isn't that what Police Unions have successfully argued and lobbied for should be the determining factor in judging a "Justified Shooting"

As long as the LEO says he "Was in Fear" - AFTER THE FACT - its justified

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Response to FreakinDJ (Reply #16)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 11:22 PM

19. How can anyone be in fear or say they

now in fear BEFORE THE FACT? You are posting without thinking.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #19)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 12:05 AM

20. The officer who shot and killed this 13yr old boy, instructed officer to say they feared

for their life






- proven by his own writings

But of course the Officer's Unions have argued and successfully lobbied for laws forbidding the questioning of a officers intentions during, before, and after the shooting of unarmed citizens

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Response to FreakinDJ (Reply #20)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 12:13 AM

21. Please provide me link to citations of what you posted.

Officer involved shootings are investigated and include asming the officer his state of mind. Are there crooked officers and departments? Of course there are, but that does not mean that most of tbem are.

I would like to know more details about this case, but from what I have read, the officer did what he had to do.

By the way, how can a cop be in fear of his life before a threat occurs?

Cops are generally more afraid of an aggressor with a knife than with a gun. A person within 21 feet can kill or injure a cop before they are able to fire their weapon.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #21)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 12:17 AM

22. Do your homework Cop Apologist

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Response to FreakinDJ (Reply #22)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 01:22 AM

28. You brought it up, not me.

The aggressor was arned with a knife, lunged at the cop with the knife, what should he have done differently?

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Response to blueridge3210 (Reply #15)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 08:03 AM

46. "A family friend, however, described the object she was holding as a 'butter knife.'”

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #46)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 08:10 AM

48. Other artcicles indicate a "knife" but do not specify what type.

If you read my original post I stipulate that it is possible she was not armed with a lethal weapon; it is also possible that she was. The article does not provide sufficient evidence one way or the other. It is interesting that if one does not immediately jump on the bandwagon to condemn the police action one is a "cop apologist", "murder justifier" etc.

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Response to blueridge3210 (Reply #48)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 08:11 AM

50. With any knife, why didn't the policeman use a taser to incapacitate her? n/t

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #50)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 08:14 AM

52. See my #51. (nt)

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Response to FreakinDJ (Reply #12)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 11:20 PM

18. This woman was not unarmed.

I read in several stories that she 'came at' the cop or was 'chasing the cop', these were quotes from witnesses. I doubt it was a 'butter knife' or at least a butter knife without a point. If it was 'just a butter knife' why didn't the family disarm her?

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #18)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 12:56 AM

26. The family called expecting medical help. They kind of help they usually get. This time they

Officer Fearful and his dick-enlarging boom stick. Or maybe it was Officer I don't have time for this shit. I don't know, but when you call for help and the help shoots your daughter dead, that's not the kind of help that's very helpful.

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #26)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 01:24 AM

29. Did you read the story?

The medics responding cannot treat an armed person.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #29)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 01:35 AM

32. I did. Let it be your daughter, depressed, armed with a kitchen knife. Are you calling the cops

with any inkling, any idea that they might shoot your daughter?

It would not cross my mind. If that thought entered my mind I'd say, no fucking way. I'm not thinking straight. Of course they won't kill this poor troubled young lady. I just want her to calm down. Never in a million years would I expect a cop to kill her. If I gave that possibility any weight I would wait it out.

I've worked in a group home setting with many troubled people. Time, a calm, authoritative presence, the right amount of space, and control given to the girl might have remedied the issue. But no, cops showed up, likely forced the issue and responded with deadly force to the girls reaction.

During past episodes, the Serrano family had called medical personnel to help them control Yanira. That Tuesday evening, they called the fired department for help once again. This time, however, police officers arrived instead of paramedics.

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #32)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 01:40 AM

34. I don't disagree with you that things needed to be calmed down.

The EMTs cannot put themselves in danger, that's not their job. I don't know the specifics of what happened in that house.

Yes, I do know that if someone armed with a knife (a deadly weapon) lunges at a cop, the cop is going to respond with deadly force.

Just because someone is 'troubled' does not mean they are not dangerous, in fact it makes them more dangerous.

Was this girl ever armed in the past when the family called cops qbout her behavior?

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #32)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 01:41 AM

35. Paramedics are not going to be allowed to go in if it's repoted the person has a knife.

It's simple enough. They are not trained to help someone who is armed.

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #32)

Mon Jun 23, 2014, 12:29 AM

105. I don't think she was "depressed." I think she was angry, paranoid and psychotic.

And like someone upthread said, "Armed w/weapon=police, not EMT, responders."

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #26)


Response to FreakinDJ (Reply #6)

Mon Jun 23, 2014, 12:31 AM

107. The police person was of Vietnamese heritage.

Not going to stereotype, but they're usually not built like Schwartzenegger. For all we know this woman could have been bigger than the cop. We just can't make assumptions without more details.

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Response to blueridge3210 (Reply #5)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 11:20 PM

17. "Possible"? How about "almost certain"?

Those who unconditionally defend law enforcement really need to give it a rest.

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Response to nomorenomore08 (Reply #17)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 06:23 AM

41. Almost certain what?

Perhaps those with reading comprehension problems should also give it a rest. Please show where I unconditionally defended Law Enforcement in this thread. Oh, that's right, I didn't automatically say "Fuck da Policeeeeeeee!!!!!!"; therefore I'm a "Cop Apologist".

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Response to blueridge3210 (Reply #41)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 03:24 PM

83. Almost certain that they used excessive force. n/t

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Response to nomorenomore08 (Reply #83)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 03:31 PM

84. Based on what information?

The initial report cited by the OP was remarkably light on details, other than the female reportedly attacked the officer with a knife.

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Response to blueridge3210 (Reply #84)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 03:36 PM

85. And we know the cops never, ever lie about anything, right?

Let's just say there have been enough incidents of clearly excessive force, played off with lame excuses, that I don't trust a damn thing these guys say.

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Response to nomorenomore08 (Reply #85)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 04:03 PM

87. In other words, regarding this case, you got nuthin'. (nt)

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Response to blueridge3210 (Reply #87)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 04:10 PM

88. I might just as easily ask why you're so quick to take the cops' side.

What in their recent track record shows that law enforcement should be trusted?

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Response to nomorenomore08 (Reply #88)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 04:16 PM

89. Again, who said I was taking the cop's side?

The only thing I have said is that the article posted in the OP is light on details and automatically condemning the actions of the responded officer is unfounded. Somehow that makes me a "cop apologist' and "unquestioning defender of LEO".

Stories involving police malfeasance are "man bites dog" stories; that's why they make the news. Regarding this incident there is not enough information presented to make a determination one way or the other.

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Response to blueridge3210 (Reply #89)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 04:20 PM

90. Okay, maybe I was a bit unfair. But there are enough people out there who defend the cops no matter

how outrageous the action, that I guess there's a certain amount of guilt by association. My mistake.

And you're right that the story is a bit light on specific detail. But is it really so difficult for a presumably much larger, stronger man to non-lethally restrain a teenage girl armed only with a kitchen knife?

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Response to nomorenomore08 (Reply #90)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 04:37 PM

91. Actually

But is it really so difficult for a presumably much larger, stronger man to non-lethally restrain a teenage girl armed only with a kitchen knife?

Yes it is. A cut of 1/4" on the carotid artery can cause one to bleed out quickly. She was 18; while still technically a teenager she was legally an adult and the photo appears to be of a "grown person" for lack of better phrasing. Add in her MH condition, failure to take her medication and reported erratic behavior and she clearly has the potential to cause serious injury. I cannot speak for others; the LEO profession is certainly challenging but those who choose to pursue it should be expected to follow the law and to be truthful at all times. "With great power, comes great responsibility" and all that.

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Response to blueridge3210 (Reply #91)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 04:44 PM

92. And I'm just not very trusting of authority nowadays. I've seen too much utter bullshit fly

and even be rewarded. So I'm not going to assume that shooting the girl was the only option.

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Response to blueridge3210 (Reply #5)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 08:01 AM

45. A butter knife isn't a deadly weapon. n/t

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #45)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 08:06 AM

47. Never said it was.

All I said was the original article cited was thin on important details. Other articles submitted indicate she attacked the officers with a knife but did not specify what type. What I found interesting was the willingness of some to immediately assume this was an unjustified shooting by the officer without enough supporting evidence.

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Response to FreakinDJ (Reply #4)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 08:32 AM

54. She doesn't look like a "girl" in that picture. She looks like an 18 year old young woman.

Unfortunately, she was unmedicated, and the police aren't the best people to call to get someone to take their meds.



Sounds to me like a 911 issue--someone (either the requester or dispatcher) wasn't clear about getting the appropriate type of help to the scene--particularly since they'd sent the FD there before...unless the FD said they didn't want to deal with the young lady...hard to know what the situation was from this article.

Hard to know any facts, really, except the fact that this unfortunate young woman is dead and a police officer shot her.

Also sounds like police training might be an issue, as well, but that might not be accurate, either.

It is difficult to sort out the details, because this is an advocacy article from a site called POLICE STATE, not a news report, so it does have a POV.


The policeman said she came after him in a "threatening manner" but who knows?

http://www.smdailyjournal.com/articles/lnews/2014-06-05/officer-who-shot-killed-18-year-old-half-moon-bay-woman-felt-his-life-was-in-danger/1776425124418.html

An 18-year-old woman shot and killed by a San Mateo County sheriff’s deputy near Half Moon Bay Tuesday night was wielding a kitchen knife and came at the deputy in a threatening manner, according to San Mateo County Sheriff’s Office spokeswoman Rebecca Rosenblatt.


I wonder if the police there wear video devices??

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Response to MADem (Reply #54)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 12:04 PM

65. I read a story that said the EMTs cannot

respond/treat someone who is armed.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #65)

Mon Jun 23, 2014, 12:27 AM

104. Like I said, I don't think we have the full story here.

It would be nice if we had some kind of non-lethal weapon to take people like this out of danger to themselves/others, but the problem is, people would sue if it existed and was used and someone had an adverse reaction. It's a no-win. The police probably don't want to get in the habit of forcing officers to make complicated judgment calls.

They should raise the IQ requirements on police--they keep them low because they think that smart people will get bored with the job. Smarter cops would be capable of making complicated decisions--e.g. retreating, waiting out this lady until she exhausted herself....or maybe using a hypothetical tranquilizer dart or a giant net to take her out without killing anyone at all.

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Response to MADem (Reply #104)

Mon Jun 23, 2014, 12:30 AM

106. You are doing some sterotyping about cops.

I know or have met dozens of cops with four year university degrees.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #106)

Mon Jun 23, 2014, 12:36 AM

108. Uh, I am not "stereotyping" - the police HAVE refused to take people on because their IQs were too

high.

People can get college degrees with average, even below average, IQs, you know.

Here--read, and take back that ill-advised "stereotyping" comment:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836

A man whose bid to become a police officer was rejected after he scored too high on an intelligence test has lost an appeal in his federal lawsuit against the city.

The 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in New York upheld a lower court’s decision that the city did not discriminate against Robert Jordan because the same standards were applied to everyone who took the test.

“This kind of puts an official face on discrimination in America against people of a certain class,” Jordan said today from his Waterford home. “I maintain you have no more control over your basic intelligence than your eye color or your gender or anything else.”

He said he does not plan to take any further legal action.

Jordan, a 49-year-old college graduate, took the exam in 1996 and scored 33 points, the equivalent of an IQ of 125. But New London police interviewed only candidates who scored 20 to 27, on the theory that those who scored too high could get bored with police work and leave soon after undergoing costly training.

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Response to MADem (Reply #108)

Mon Jun 23, 2014, 12:39 AM

109. I am not suggesting you did not find a PD

that refused to hire someone because their IQ was too high. I am suggesting that not all cops have a low IQ. It would be ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #109)

Mon Jun 23, 2014, 01:09 AM

110. This is not about "low" IQ.

They have a false assumption that people who are intellectually very quick and incisive will get bored easily. I think it's a false paradigm. Often, people who are very bright, just like some who are less so, are capable of greater focus, some even to the point of obsession. And that attention to detail isn't a bad thing, necessarily. Creative thinking is a plus in policing, IMO. And it's not always tied to intelligence. That said, intelligence can be helpful in figuring out what to do, and when to do it.

I would urge you to go back and read the article again, and keep in mind that "100" as an IQ score is deemed "average"--- i.e. mental age/chronological age x 100. An average IQ is not a "low" IQ. It is what it is.

They apparently don't want people who are too far ABOVE average. That, I think, is a shame. Just because people are intellectually acute doesn't necessarily mean that they are automatically superb (or lousy) leaders, will take orders readily, are driven to advance, or easily bored. Those are different things entirely.

PDs should learn to use a scalpel and not a cudgel when they choose their personnel. They'd probably do better if they went for more diversity in intellect. They should hire a few really smart people, and see if it helps--it sure as hell can't HURT...look at their reputation of late--it sucks. They need to change up their game.

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Response to MADem (Reply #54)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 04:46 PM

93. I just don't believe these guys anymore. They've screwed up (even intentionally) too many times. nt

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Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #13)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 11:11 PM

14. Okay.

Both stories indicate the deputies were attacked by a knife wielding assailant.

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Response to blueridge3210 (Reply #2)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 12:51 AM

25. Yeah whatever. How about the cop clears the are including clearing it of himself. No excuses.

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Response to blueridge3210 (Reply #2)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 08:19 PM

97. Had the officer used a taser and missed he would not have been

left defenseless because he still would have had his firearm. It seems like the police far to often go straight for shoot to kill without considering if the situation is so far gone that shoot to kill is the only option. Loot at the number of family pets they routinely shoot and kill who were properly secured in their owners' property and the police had no just reason to enter the property.

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 10:38 PM

7. Unfortunately, there is an extreme danger calling the police or 911

... to help with a mentally ill person, a cognitively impaired person or an addict. these stories appear more than anecdotal ... with the police having no idea how to deal with these situations and killing ill or impaired folk.

I realize there often is no choice when the person in question is in immediate danger of killing themselves or others ... but short of that, bad situations appear to become tragic situations with frequency once the police get involved.

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 10:40 PM

8. wait, the family called the cops on her, said she was dangerous & held a weapon, and ?

from the looks of things this family committed a deniable murder for a lawsuit payday...they're the ones who called for help saying their family member had a weapon & was dangerous

all the cop knows is he showed up for the call & a woman is waving a weapon at him

he's supposed to be a fucking psychic?

he gets a call that someone is threatening with a weapon, he shows up & she continues to threaten with a weapon?

i honestly don't know what the fuck he was supposed to do

if you love your family member, you don't call the fucking cops (or the fire department, because you DO know that's the same as calling the fucking cops)


if you don't love them & just love drama, then don't ask for my sympathy

i feel for the victims, which appear to be the mentally ill woman and the working man/police officer called onto the scene and placed into a no-win situation

the family who set the dogs on her can kiss my ass unless i get better evidence than this of police wrong doing because it looks like to me they were sick of her and set him up



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Response to pitohui (Reply #8)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 01:00 AM

27. That's insane. The family had no reasonable expectation that the help would kill their daughter.

They called for help, they got a funeral. The family managed to avoid the danger, why could the trained officer?

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #27)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 01:26 AM

30. It appears she responded differently to the cop than she did her family.

It sure is too bad she did not stay on her meds.

It all happened so fast. Don't forget that cops are human too.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #30)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 09:38 AM

57. I can't believe you are calling cops human

The cop bashing is strong in this thread, facts are irrelevant, the cops are always wrong. If you question the lynch mob, you get labelled a cop apologist.

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Response to pitohui (Reply #8)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 07:52 AM

43. Sometimes mentally ill people grab weapons. Many times those people are not homicidal.

Their disease has gotten the better of them. They're confused, angry and scared. They can eventually be brought to a calmer state. I find it incredible that the state, for all its resources, supposed experts and experience can find no other resolution except deadly force.

If the default position is to shoot them then I see no value in calling the police. MI becomes a death sentence.

I pray no one in your family ever has "an episode" that requires you to call the authorities.

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Response to pitohui (Reply #8)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 12:32 PM

69. That is one of the most disgusting, horrid posts I have ever read here.

You really ought to be ashamed of yourself.

"from the looks of things this family committed a deniable murder for a lawsuit payday."

Really fucking ugly. And totally baseless.

Really fucking ugly.

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 12:49 AM

23. How is cops killing this girl any better than everyone leaving and letting her hack her heart out?

I mean, really? If she is only a danger to herself and you're just going to kill her, risk her having a go at it on her own. If she is a danger to others, get everyone away until she calms down. I see no reason a person like this is killed except impatience and trying to force an issue that doesn't need to be forced. This should never ever happen. God damn it!

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #23)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 01:30 AM

31. You brought up an interesting point.

Why didn't the family back off and that may have relieved her of some of her stress. I don't know how many family members were in the house with her, it seems like there were several. Then a uniformed cop shows up and that seems to have sent her over the edge. What part of that is the cop's fault?

I'm not saying the outcome was a good thing. Would it have been better if the cop would have been killed with a knife wound?

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #31)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 01:36 AM

33. Nope, better for the cop to assess from a distance and keep a safe distance while trying to talk her

down.

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #33)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 01:45 AM

36. If she was coming at them, as repoted, what would be the safe distance?

Do you expect police to run away?

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Response to LisaL (Reply #36)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 01:54 AM

38. I wouldn't be opposed to that. Do you expect them to hold their ground at all costs?

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #38)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 12:08 PM

66. One witness is quoted that she was "chasing" the cop with a knife.

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Response to LisaL (Reply #36)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 08:15 AM

53. If no other person was in immediate danger, yes I do.

They should have deescalated the scene and backed away and worked on a non-lethal plan.

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Response to NutmegYankee (Reply #53)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 12:11 PM

67. From the information I have read,

the house was full of family members. That does not seem like de-escalating to me.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #67)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 12:28 PM

68. She was shot in the street.

http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_25895166/san-mateo-county-sheriffs-deputy-fatally-shoots-woman

The entire encounter took 20 seconds. That is hardly enough time to secure the area and work on talking the young woman to drop the knife. But this is sadly all too common for the mentally ill. The cops don't have any patience and just shoot.

Look at this video - http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/bestoftv/2013/10/19/exp-erin-dnt-mentally-ill-man-shot-by-dallas-police.cnn&hpt=hp_t2&video_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Furl%3Fsa%3Dt%26rct%3Dj%26q%3D%26esrc%3Ds%26source%3Dvideo%26cd%3D3%26ved%3D0CCkQuAIwAg%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.cnn.com%252Fvideo%252Fdata%252F2.0%252Fvideo%252Fbestoftv%252F2013%252F10%252F19%252Fexp-erin-dnt-mentally-ill-man-shot-by-dallas police.cnn.html%253Fhpt%253Dhp_t2%26ei%3DawKnU5O8J4qvyATCn4CwBA%26usg%3DAFQjCNGNRbH2BreBKvioYfm56VBw8BBUvw%26sig2%3Dl9YmgZxKjMtXDGSTScYTtw%26bvm%3Dbv.69411363%2Cd.aWw

Or this video: (may be graphic) The cop was far too aggressive and escalated the scene.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c74_1399580183

Notice how the cop yep shooting the man while he was down on the ground. If a concealed carry permit holder did that, they'd be charged with murder.

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Response to NutmegYankee (Reply #68)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 01:12 PM

72. I did not look at your other links.

One story at a time. Whether the incident took place ibside or outside, this woman was under great presure from many family members. They should have backed off, as you suggested.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #72)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 01:26 PM

73. You should look at them.

The second is the most pertinent. That cop was fired and has been charged with felony wounding.

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Response to NutmegYankee (Reply #73)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 01:35 PM

74. I understand there are bad cops who do bad things..

I could post links to cops who do good things. Cops do more good things exponentially every day than bad. Most of the calls that cops respond to are medicals where they help people. This story is about an armed woman. Since she suffered from depression, it is even possible it was suicide by cop.

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Cop-Saves-Baby-From-Burning-Building-257752101.html



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Response to Jenoch (Reply #74)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 01:42 PM

75. "Cops do more good things exponentially every day than bad"

I can see where a white person would foolishly believe that.

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Response to NutmegYankee (Reply #75)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 01:45 PM

76. I never said that there are not bad cops.

But you coming back with a statement like that does not in any way make my statement invalid.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #76)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 01:52 PM

79. You haven't provided stats to back it up either.

I imagine the cops just do their normal jobs most days.

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Response to NutmegYankee (Reply #79)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 01:59 PM

80. Yep, and those normal jobs mostly include heloing people.

more often than not, medicals and traffic accidents.

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #33)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 01:47 AM

37. Then you do believe it was a mistake for all

of the family members to have been in the house? Maybe they should have all been outside and one of them could have explained the situation to the cop. Maybe tbere should be different proticals for situations such as this. My problem with threads like this is that it seems that everyone is quick to jump on the cop when there are very few facts presented in the story. That, and most people seem to not understand how law enforcement works.

Blaming the cop 100% for this would be the same as blaming the family for not making sure this girl was on her meds. She would probably be alive if she were on her medication.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #37)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 01:55 AM

39. I very much agree with "Maybe tbere should be different proticals for situations such as this."

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 03:45 AM

40. Devastating. The family made the same mistake so many people do.

They trusted the cops.

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 07:29 AM

42. A knife weilding adult attacked the police with a deadly weapon and was killed....

 

Sounds like a justifiable shoot to me.

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Response to Demo_Chris (Reply #42)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 08:10 AM

49. "A family friend, however, described the object she was holding as a 'butter knife.”'

Also, why didn't the policeman use a taser instead? Isn't the whole point of a taser to be used in these sorts of situations?

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #49)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 08:13 AM

51. Not if she was armed with a lethal weapon.

The taser is for a lower level of threat, active resistance that is not life threatening. The probes can miss allowing the assailant to get with range to conduct a lethal attack. It is also possible the responding officer was not equipped with a taser. Pepper spray is also a poor choice when dealing with a knife-wielding assailant.

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Response to blueridge3210 (Reply #51)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 09:05 AM

55. The responding officer SHOULD have been equipped. He knew what the situation was.

And this is the kind of situation tasers were meant for -- not for shooting people in diabetic comas because they "ignore" orders to leave a car, or for punishing a person who is sitting in a protest line.

http://www.wifr.com/news/headlines/Dixon_Police_Use_of_Taser_Avoids_Potential_Deadly_Force_Situation_129413433.html?ref=433

Genz continued to approach officers and continued to fail to follow officers’ commands. Officers feared for their safety, as Genz reportedly had a knife. The Taser was used on Genz and he was taken into custody without injury to himself or the officers. Genz was taken to KSB Hospital where he was released after examination.

Chief Langloss stated, “This incident exemplifies how valuable the Taser is for the safety of our officers and the suspect. This situation very easily could have turned into a deadly force situation. That is the last thing we want. Thankfully, the officers had a Taser and were able to use a non-deadly force option.”

Chief Langloss reports that since receiving training in late June of 2011 officers have pulled the Taser on two incidents. In each of those incidents, the suspect immediately complied and the Taser was not used. There was no physical altercation between the suspect and the police, and no one was injured.

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2001-02-28/news/0102271186_1_taser-police-officers-police-shooting

But instead of shooting, and possibly killing, a man with a knife during a struggle with another officer, Officer Larry Burgess reached for his Taser and pulled the trigger.

The suspect, wanted on several felony warrants, "immediately stopped as he dropped the knife and was taken into custody without injury to any of the officers or the suspect," the commendation reads.

The weapon's probes can reach a target up to 21 feet away and hold a charge up to five seconds. The charge stuns a person long enough for an officer to put on handcuffs.


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Response to pnwmom (Reply #55)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 10:05 AM

59. Not every officer is equipped with a taser.

They are expensive, as is the training. The agency will send whatever officer is available and may not require a taser equipped officer to respond. Regarding the article you posted, I'm glad the officers were able to successfully subdue a knife welding person with a taser but the force continuum places use of the taser at the level of active resistance, not armed resistance. Each situation is unique and should not be judged by what was done in another dissimilar incident.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #49)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 08:07 PM

95. It was a knife of some kind, that's all that matters...

 

And no, a Taser is NOT intended as an alternative to deadly force. If deadly force is justified -- and in this case it clearly is -- than that alone essentially negates the use of a Taser. A Taser is a tool that might be used somewhere down the use of force progression, hopefully as a device that prevents further escalation. It is not a replacement for deadly force.

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Response to Demo_Chris (Reply #95)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 08:11 PM

96. It's a stretch to say that a butter knife in the hands of a teenage girl is deadly force.

Would a a metal chopstick also be viewed as deadly force?

I think the type of knife is important.

If tasers can't be used in these kinds of situations -- to reduce gun use -- then I don't think we should use tasers at all. They certainly shouldn't be used on people in diabetic comas who fail to respond to directions to leave their cars, or to sit-down protesters -- neither of whom pose any risk to the police.


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Response to pnwmom (Reply #96)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 08:28 PM

98. I was not clear. A metal butter knife might not justify deadly force IF the officers knew....

 

That this is what the suspect was armed with. If they were sure. But you have to understand that at close range a knife is every bit as deadly as a firearm, and depending on the knife and firearm potentially more so. Knives are deadly dangerous. To help you understand why officers need to react immediately see the following link:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill

As for Tasers... I think they are being used inappropriately. It seems to me as if officers have been taught to employ these as an essentially "free" use of force compliance tool. As in, it's not REALLY force because it was just a Taser. This is, of course, absurd, but that's basically the impression I get.

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Response to Demo_Chris (Reply #42)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 11:13 AM

63. Cute. "A justifiable shoot." Very jargon like. As if you've said that phrase before.

Your stripped down version appears very tidy. Unfortunately it only serves the side who killed, while giving short shrift to the woman who died.

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #63)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 08:02 PM

94. True. Her story ended when she assaulted the police with a deadly weapon....

 

It's probably a tragedy for her family and everyone involved, including the officers forced to kill her, but there you go.

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Response to Demo_Chris (Reply #94)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 08:40 PM

99. How progressive of you. Well, not my version, but a cop apologist's, gun toter's version of

progressive I suppose. I think an attacker is not an attacker is not an attacker. A young woman with mental problems could be handled more delicately, even if attacking than neo-nazi laying down machine gun fire. How would an cop without a gun, say in Europe might have been expected to handle this situation? Eye for an eye? Is officer's safety paramount in all situations?

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #99)

Mon Jun 23, 2014, 12:09 AM

103. Lots of assumptions there sparky...

 

You THINK "an attacker in not an attacker in not an attacker." Myself, I don't have a clue what that even means, but it sounds a whole lot like bullshit to me. See, in the real world a deadly threat is a deadly threat even if you don't want it to be so. The fact that the perpetrator was a woman is irrelevant, as is the fact that she was a young adult, and the fact that she had prior mental problems. None of that matters at all. Not even a little. And yes, officer safety is paramount in ALL situations. Sorry, but that's reality.

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 07:59 AM

44. Shoot to kill ...

Is that the only way?

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 09:14 AM

56. Protect the 1%, serve up the brutality.

Welcome to Murica.

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 09:57 AM

58. Sad. Almost the same thing happened to me

Except I was told I was going to a child out of control, and ended up confronting a mentally ill teen twice my size.

The cops are showing up with very little to work with as far as knowing what is going on. They have to react instantly. If you call the cops on a person attacking people with a knife, you can reasonably expect somebody might get hurt.

Was a taser and option? Maybe. It can be used if the person is holding a knife but not actually attacking/lunging as long as you have somebody with a firearm as backup ready to go on case the taser fails- because they are not 100% effective for a number of reasons. But if the person is actively lunging at or attacking people with a knife then the taser is usually out by most protocols- if you are taking action to prevent an attack on others or yourself you go for the most effective defense.

Somebody mentioned it was a butter knife. May have been. I've been through drill against knives and let me tell you when somebody is swinging a knifed around and you only have seconds it's almost impossible to judge with certainly the kind of blade- you have to assume it's a danger.

I see they had called fire/EMS before for this problem, but cops were dispatched this time. That happens when in previous incidents the person was violent and attacked or tried to harm first responders, the address gets coded to indicate police need to go first for safety of the responders. Or the caller reports something too dangerous to send first responders in first.

So a person who on multiple times has become violent to the point where first responders asked for police response before going in is likely here. We know this wasn't the first time they had to call 911.

Want to place blame? Another set of parents not admitting how troubled their child is and getting them the proper, residential, kind of treatment. Or a system denying that treatment. So a person who has had multiple violent episodes is still out in society and police are left to respond.

If your child is so troubled they get violent and attack people without medication, and won't take medication reliably to the point where you call 911 multiple times, you are in over your head caring for her at home and risking that her violent actions with end badly for others or her. In this case they did.

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Response to Lee-Lee (Reply #58)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 01:01 PM

70. Thank you for this point of view.

Unfortunately, some people automatically see cops as evil, forgetting that they are humans with the instinct to live too.

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Response to Lee-Lee (Reply #58)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 02:52 PM

82. I wish everyone would read this post

Thank you for your perspective.

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Response to Lee-Lee (Reply #58)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 03:40 PM

86. You're right, how is the cop supposed to know what kind of

knife it is in those first few seconds. Besides that, not all butter knifes are the rounded end, not too dangerous variety. My brother has dinner knives that are pointed with serrations. Personally, I don't want a pointed 'butter' knife.

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Response to Lee-Lee (Reply #58)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 09:11 PM

101. NICE Cop Apology - Blame the Greiving Parents

Good job

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Response to FreakinDJ (Reply #101)

Mon Jun 23, 2014, 06:20 AM

111. Sorry, but their loss doesn't change the events leading up to it

None of us know enough for sure what events preceded that event- but the article tells us that the daughter had previously had these episodes where the family had to call 911.

So like it or not, there were warning signs and indications she was prone to this behavior.

I am sure the parents thought they were doing the right thing. They always do in cases such as this (and I have worked with many) because they have a mental block against the idea of having to send a child off for any kind of residential treatment.

If you have a child that is prone to being violent and attacking others due to mental illness, and that can't be managed 100% with treatment, either due to ineffectiveness or unwillingness to take meds, keeping that person out where then can and will threaten or harm others is going to have a bad ending- either for the person or others around them who get harmed.

It appears the parents did just that. Then waited until their daughter was at her absolute worst and called police. So in a typical dispatch you get about 30-46 seconds of info "woman with knife at xxxx xxxx road, parents say daughter is off meds and out of control". Police show up, go in, and if the daughter makes a lunge or other move like she is going to stab them or a family member they have to stop her. Most times that happens and yen cops clean up the parents mess and then the parents start sobbing about how she is "so sweet" and "not usually like this" and get upset when you handcuff daughter and send her for a 72 hour psych eval, but they check her out as soon as possible and bring her home for the cycle to start all over again.

It plays out like that hundreds of times a day all over this country and you never hear about it.

Sadly a right fraction of the time events unfold where the only response is either deadly force or let and officer or family member get hurt or killed. You of course will always hear about those cases.

I'm probably the only one in this discussion who has been in the shoes of these officers, called in because parents or caregivers tried to manage a mentally ill person whose care was way above their ability to provide. Sometimes because they insisted, sometimes because the system failed to offer proper care. It's a no-win for everybody.

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 11:03 AM

60. How to manipulate sentiment through language.

"Armed mentally ill woman" becomes "special needs girl".

It sounds likely that the police did not act appropriately, but I'm intrigued by the motives and techniques used by the author.

http://www.ksbw.com/news/central-california/santa-cruz/half-moon-bay-deputy-shoots-kills-18yearold-girl/26330548#!18cF4

But Tuesday night escalated into a "nightmare," when the deputy shot her, Lorenzo Serrano said. He added that his sister felt threatened by the deputy and she was armed with a knife.

"Things went really wrong. We want answers. Why didn't they use a Taser? We just want to know what really happened. We want justice," Lorenzo Serrano said.

No deputies were injured and Yanira Serrano died at the scene.

One witness, 12-year-old Dyanna Ruiz, said she saw a girl running toward the deputy with something in her hand. She said the deputy yelled at the girl and opened fire when she kept coming at him.

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)


Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 11:06 AM

62. Seems like all cops are trained to do anymore is shoot.

When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. They have no skills except firearms. I was talking to a friend of mine who is still in law enforcement in a management capacity, and she said that all they can hire are veterans. So for applicants they get 25 year old kids who have little or no college, served in a combat zone for a couple of tours, and are cocky as hell. They are all proficient with firearms but have no people skills and are overly aggressive, so she won't hire them because she wants to sleep at night. "Dumber than dog shit" was the phrase she used. She is Federal, but I think the county and local departments are all hiring these same people.

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 01:10 PM

71. rip. public needs to learn how to deal w family members w knives. cops will blow them away

Better to knock knife out of their hands w a broom than call cops

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 01:46 PM

77. He has to be fired, at least. But....

we all know that won't happen.

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 01:50 PM

78. Our police force needs some serious reform.

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 02:11 PM

81. They should stop calling Police

for family members who are on Meds. they should advocate for a Crisis team that works with conjunction of the Police Department. the team should consist of a doctor who could probably administer a sedative and put the person on observation. this shooting people because you have a badge and then investigating yourself has to stop. How many must die before they come up with workable solutions??

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Response to mstinamotorcity2 (Reply #81)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 08:50 PM

100. This in constructive. The idea that we "advocate for a Crisis team" seems like it would be in

everyone's interest. Thanks for posting.

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Response to mstinamotorcity2 (Reply #81)

Mon Jun 23, 2014, 10:12 AM

112. An interesting idea.

The devil, however, is in the details. How quickly do you think such a team could be deployed as opposed to sending an on duty LEO? If you're talking about sending a medical doctor; they are not exactly sitting around with nothing else to do. What is to be done if, while waiting on this team to respond, the person begins to act violent or attacks family members or neighbors. Just curious.

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 10:31 PM

102. As a mother with a disabled adult child on serious medication--I am afraid for my daughter

because when her medication levels get screwed up...say by diarrhea...she is out of control.

Fortunately for the world and for her, I take her guardianship seriously.

It's what comes when I'm not around that makes my blood run cold.

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