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Fri Jun 6, 2014, 08:30 PM

Let's Try It This Way...Under What Instances, Is It Okay To Praise The President On DU ???

D= Democratic Underground.

Perhaps when he gave us Obamacare? Sure many feel angry that we didn't get single payer, yet spin it any way you want. The votes were not there.

However Children can now stay on their parents policies until 26. That is a lifeline for youth in low paying minimum wage jobs and those coming out of college with large debt. We no longer can be denied healthcare for preexisting conditions. Let's be frank here, how many of you do not have one? Did you know that a victim of spousal abuse was a preexisting condition? People are no longer tied to their jobs due to health care benefits, they can pursue their dreams and get affordable healthcare.

Many of the uninsured were women, 19 million of them. And guess what, they will no longer be charged more for coverage than men. Imagine that! Yeah equality!


We have DODT and Doma. Rights! They have rights now in many states to marry who they want when they want and receive spousal benefits. They can now legally be at the bedside of a loved one when they are sick. That is a human right. Yes, I know the popular response is, he only went for it only when Biden brought it up. You always sell this President short. Change can be slow, painfully slow, yet we are getting there.

This President stands for equality for all, voting rights women's rights, equal rights.


There is more so much more, yet you know that, right? Well maybe not, because here on DU it is only Progressive to bash the President over the head day after day. Well you get the best of the best rec's and soar to the top of the page when you show how loathsome and disappointing this President is. All the while you claim that you voted for him at least twice, yet he has sorely disappointed you.

Bashing the party that is really at fault, the GOP and Baggers sadly don't bring the much needed rec's. So yahoo! Let's jump on Obama! It's so much fun and sadly popular on DU.

Never once, never once do you praise his successes. This goes way beyond "holding his feet to the fire." Way beyond.

He is a man, one man, and no not perfect. I for one never believed he was, nor expected him to be. It must be rather lonely at the top. This is how I see it. You do not vote for someone that you believe will make some much needed changes then turn your back on them. You don't leave them adrift. Obama stated more than once that he can't do it alone.

Our destiny is written by us. When we join together for a common cause, there is nothing we can't do ~ Barak Obama

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Reply Let's Try It This Way...Under What Instances, Is It Okay To Praise The President On DU ??? (Original post)
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Response to sheshe2 (Original post)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 08:32 PM

1. this just doesn't read well and it comes off as whining.

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #78)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 01:22 AM

167. I kinda definitely think the poster was referring a moi. My name is not Willy.

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Response to cali (Reply #1)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 07:55 AM

233. Thought the same thing as I skimmed it

Perhaps a tad over-sensitive

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Response to sheshe2 (Original post)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 08:36 PM

2. Good post.

Sadly some here believe that their is NO instance that is OK to praise or support the president, and when some of us do praise him or voice support, well it isn't long before that crowd shows up and does their best to change the subject and bring out all the negative things they can about him. It's really sad that some just can't admit he has done any good at all since he took office.

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Response to Andy823 (Reply #2)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 08:43 PM

4. I thank you Andy!

They never admit it. Never praise him. That's just sad on a Democratic board!

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Response to sheshe2 (Original post)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 08:46 PM

5. Um, when you're in the BOG.

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Response to theaocp (Reply #5)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 08:55 PM

16. That's you answer for a Democratic board.

Our sitting first African American President can only get praise for his accomplishments in a protected group. Really? On DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND he can only be praised in a protective group! Sorry if I repeat myself yet your answer just blows me away.

You want to segregate this President and those that praise his accomplishments! WTF!

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #16)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 09:38 PM

48. If you want to call someone racist, have the courage to make the accusation directly.

Your response is one of the most egregious misappropriations of symbolism I've ever seen on this website.

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #48)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 10:30 PM

81. Oh please

It is what it IS

And when I have visited the Dis, I read references to "BOGscum." Lovely.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #81)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:00 PM

101. I only visited dis twice...

not for me. So I/We are "Bogscum" there. Nice.

Cha posted me a picture of a BOG,

Can't seem to find it but this is close...it might be it~



This doesn't look like scum to me. Thank you my dear Hekate.

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #101)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 09:57 PM

347. That's it, she.. the Beautiful BOG that drive a few people insane..

Wetlands Gardens & Bog Gardens


"Are you unfortunate enough to have part of your property on a bog or marsh or to have a swampy ditch or large area of standing water? If your answer is yes, then your biggest landscaping challenge is going to be to change your perspective. Bogs, marshes, and swamps are all vibrant ecosystems that serve an essential environmental function, and you have become a custodian one of these treassures.

Besides being home and breeding grounds to many species of birds, fish, insects, mammals, and rare plants - bogs, marshes, and swamps are one of nature's primary water filters, removing pollutants and excess nutrients, and controling errosion. The quality of many lakes and some streams is heavily influenced by the quality of the bogs and swamps that feed them"


Delightful BOG

BOG

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Response to Cha (Reply #347)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 10:09 PM

348. What a beautiful link!

I thought that was the picture that you posted me, but couldn't find the link~ so... Cha.

the Beautiful BOG that drive a few people insane..


We do have a way of doing that don't we~

BOG!

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #348)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 10:17 PM

349. Yeah, The Barack Obama Group..

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Response to Cha (Reply #349)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 10:30 PM

351. There is indeed!

A lot more to come~



Cheers~

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #351)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 10:51 PM

354. Nice, I love that gif! The Week Ahead(More to Come..)



Wednesday



For instance Wednesday!.. The President will travel to Worcester, Massachusetts to deliver the commencement address at the Worcester Technical High School graduation ceremony.

He will also attend a DSCC event in the Boston area.

Monday Tuesday Thursday Friday and Saturday, too..
TOD

Lucky you, she!BOG

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Response to Cha (Reply #354)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 10:57 PM

355. Oh no!

I am off Mon Tues and Thurs...not Wed!

Thanks for the heads up anyway...I will be watching. Thanks Cha.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #81)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:02 PM

102. Serious? They do that?

 

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #102)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:21 PM

127. I read it more than once, and it was let to stand

I have posted now and again, but on the whole have no interest in the rampant hostility.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #81)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:05 PM

104. "It is what is IS"- What does that even mean?

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Response to Hekate (Reply #81)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:19 PM

124. the Ta-nehisi Coates article really exposed a lot, i'm sure the biggest racist zimmerman supporters

on dis are regulars on DU .

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Response to Hekate (Reply #81)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 07:53 AM

232. What is Dis?

What IS what it is? Please explain what in the hell you are talking about.

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Response to theaocp (Reply #232)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 08:29 AM

243. It's "The Discussionist", the new site that DU admin have set up

and where right wingers are allowed. It's not relevant to this thread, but has been brought in anyway.

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #48)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 06:06 PM

332. It's the go-to comeback

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #16)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 07:51 AM

231. Did I miss something?

I thought you wanted to know "under what circumstances". That seemed pretty clear. What's with the bold terminology? What are you implying?

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Response to theaocp (Reply #5)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 10:35 PM

352. We need to enter the BOG

Animal, man, and swamp thing together! it has supernatural properties.

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Response to sheshe2 (Original post)


Response to sheshe2 (Original post)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 08:49 PM

7. Easy Peasy... When One Agrees... One Promotes... When One Disagrees... One Denotes...

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Response to WillyT (Reply #7)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:13 PM

117. it's short and it rhymes!

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Response to WillyT (Reply #7)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 05:12 PM

326. Waste Of Time

Really who cares? If they are more concerned with cheerleading and being yes people then they are in the wrong business. Representation is about results...not "feeling good" or expecting others to. We get it. They support the president and want us to more than the policies themselves. If they spent as much energy trying to change things Obama said he expects us to vanguard instead of worrying about who is kissing whose butt then we would get more done. Obama turned out to be way more corporate, way more intrusive and way more willing to give away our advantage to the even more corporate republicans. If we keep moving the center to the right them the next thing they will pull off is forcing us to just be happy we got Jeb Bush instead of Ted Cruz. Well played Bush Crime Family Cabal and your lackeys.

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Response to sheshe2 (Original post)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 08:49 PM

8. it should always be ok , it's a Democratic Board

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Response to sheshe2 (Original post)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 08:49 PM

9. problem (with your expectation) is

. . . there are just too many folks compelled to speak out who have real and pressing concerns (and needs) that sometimes can't bear praise for some unrelated issue or action associated with the President.

Not all good from the WH is going to outweigh every concern out here. It seems like this is a static audience that graces this board, but the membership is so diverse that there are always going to be folks whose life experience and perspective is unable settle for gains made by this administration.

We should be sensitive to those unmet needs and expectations, if we expect any acknowledgment of those things we feel satisfied with.

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Response to bigtree (Reply #9)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 08:55 PM

15. I will agree

People have concerns, and they should be able to voice them, but some here seem to never admit that he has done "any" good, only bad, and that's just plain wrong, period. Even if they are not happy do they really have to try and hijack threads that are about things many of us find to be worth praise?

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Response to Andy823 (Reply #15)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 09:04 PM

24. I'd say there's definitely some over-zealousness on all sides

. . . I think that's understandable, in most cases. Folks want to feel like they're being heard.

I do think some folks like to stir up trouble and some work to divide the community among ourselves. Still, I think it would be a tragedy if this board only focused on the things we like and didn't find room and understanding of those expressions of dissent and dissatisfaction.

It's not pleasant or comfortable to experience all of that (especially if you don't share those views), but I think it should be understood that there are many folks who can't countenance having their concerns overshadowed by a focus on things that someone else might think are going swimmingly. In most cases, that passionate and determined advocacy is a precious and beautiful thing.

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Response to bigtree (Reply #24)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:05 PM

107. Its Democratic Underground....its ABOUT the Democratic Party....AND the Democratic Party

 

currently owns the Senate and the Executive....and we have a slight chance to take back the House....but what do we hear "overzealousness on all sides".

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #107)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:32 PM

140. heh . . . it's about what we make it about

. . . since I came here in 2003, it's been a forum for folks to express concerns as well as a forum to express agreement with the party. It's well-positioned to provide a platform for both sentiments. It's not surprising to find that folks who feel compelled to post here are avid in those expressions; whatever is advocated.

It's the nature of advocacy that dissent or disagreement is amplified more than sentiment which expresses contentment with something or the other.

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Response to bigtree (Reply #140)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:56 PM

144. Here....we are SUPPOSED to be zealous! But to come here....its like stepping through the looking

 

glass....

This shouldn't be a place that treats Democrats like those at Free Republic treats Democrats. For crying out loud....No good deed shall go unpunished....even here. The criticism is not occasional....its constant....exactly like it is visiting one of those sites...and if terms like "Blogscum" are being bandied about towards those that support the Democratic President and others.....How is it any different than trying to hang out at Freeperville?

It certainly doesn't make us look very sure of ourselves and our positions!

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #144)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:11 AM

149. I'm sorry that's been your experience

. . . it what it is here, and I'm not sure that anything I say to try and explain why is going to suffice for you.

Try and understand DU this way . . . it began as a voice against the worst of the Bush era abuses and assaults on democracy, dissent, and our constitution. Even though we elected a Democratic president, many of those issues which inspired this forum haven't been resolved, and many of those concerns have actually been exacerbated and deepened; even with the election of and advancement of Democrats.

Moreover, I think it's a mistake to view this forum as some static or cohesive community of concerns. There is a myriad of opinion and interest here - much like the country as a whole - which is never going to be completely assuaged by the balance of power in Washington. To me, that's a refreshing and reassuring dynamic which ensures the vigilance and commitment that is necessary to effect progressive change.

I am sorry that a few folks are working overtime to pluck at your last nerve.

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Response to bigtree (Reply #149)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:27 AM

152. I lurked here for years...came to be informed....and then suddenly it started reading like FR

 

and I decided that people need to push back on that noise....be heard. This place should be the one place Democrats should be expect to be able to see Democrats being respected...and I can hear the reply already "they have to earn respect"....the problem is....nothing is EVER good enough. Its stick stick stick all the time....rarely any carrot. And those that actually try to use the carrot....are called "Bogscum"? How's that for ironic!

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #152)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:30 AM

154. I know it's hard to wade through the BS

. . . and I certainly appreciate the efforts, like your own, to present what you believe is good about and proper for our party. More power to you, VanillaRhapsody!

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #152)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 04:30 AM

193. That 'bogscum' comment was (is?) used on The Discussionist, not DU

Which I now find some people above have shortened to "the Dis" or "dis". It will help keep this thread clear if we keep the 2 sites separate.

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #193)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 08:52 AM

250. And was it regulars to DU that used the term?

 

because that is the impression that I got. And is the Dis going to be the another yet another Blog where members of DU are going to be brought up and "discussed"? I note that they seem to know about the BOG....so obviously it WAS people FROM DU...

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #250)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 09:37 AM

261. You don't have to be from DU to know of the Barack Obama Group

Cavers know about it, for instance, and they've been attracted here. I can find 2 people using it on The Discussionist; one says they used to post here, but don't any more (which may include that they were banned); the other appears to be someone who is currently suspended from here for have 5 hides in the past 90 days.

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #261)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 09:41 AM

264. Apparently you just contradicted yourself. As the 2 that used the term are or were former

 

members....

And guess what....if you google Bogscum....you get links to Free Republic....

My point stands!

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #264)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 10:10 AM

266. I couldn't see that you had a point - you didn't know who was using it

and I found out for you. I pointed out that you don't have to be a DUer of know of the 'BOG'.

So what was your point? And what are the contradictions you think you've seen?

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #107)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 06:26 AM

201. Interesting perspective. So it's about the Democratic Party, not Democratic policies?

See, to me, without those traditional Democratic Party policies, the Democratic Party is just the Republican Party in drag. Take a look at Mary Burke, Democratic candidate for Governor in Wisconsin. She's as Republican as they come, policy-wise. Should we support her anyway?

Seems like having a "Democrat" in the governor's mansion who is pushing Scott Walker's policies down our throats is actually worse than having Scott Walker do it. We'll still all get shit on, and Democrats will take the blame.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #201)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 01:09 PM

300. +1 a whole fucking bunch.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #201)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 01:35 PM

304. Well said, Scuba

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Response to Scuba (Reply #201)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 08:32 PM

342. Thanks for the affirmation

I thought it referred to democratic policies and the values of democracy, forced underground by its social antithesis. This implies resistance to antidemocratic ideas wherever they are found, even in your own home...especially in your own home.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #201)

Sun Jun 8, 2014, 10:00 AM

365. Excellent post, Scuba! nt

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #107)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 07:14 AM

213. From the DU "About Us" page: "...we have no affiliation with the Democratic Party."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus

The DU Mission Statement in full:
Democratic Underground is an online community where politically liberal people can do their part to effect political and social change by:
• Interacting with friendly, like-minded people;
• Sharing news and information, free from the corporate media filter;
• Participating in lively, thought-provoking discussions;
• Helping elect more Democrats to political office at all levels of American government; and
• Having fun!

After more than a decade online, Democratic Underground still hosts the most active liberal discussion board on the Internet. We are an independent website funded by member subscriptions and advertising, and we have no affiliation with the Democratic Party. Democratic Underground is a truly grassroots community where regular members drive the discussion and set the standards. There is no other website quite like it anywhere on the Internet.

We are always looking for friendly, liberal people who appreciate good discussions and who understand the importance of electing more Democrats to office.

DU is a board for liberals. Beyond agreeing to help "elect more Democrats to political office", DUers are not required to be Democratic Party members, are not required to be Democratic Party partisans, are not required to hold any particular viewpoint with regard to the Democratic Party - and, in particular, are not required to either believe or vow, Democratic Party, right or wrong.

DU is NOT "ABOUT the Democratic Party" - it's about politically liberal people discussing issues. It's a "grassroots community" - that's the Underground part.

You are free to be a diehard Democratic Party partisan here, but it is not a requirement.

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Response to scarletwoman (Reply #213)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 11:17 AM

278. It's about "politically liberal" people who VOTE FOR DEMOCRATS, though.

So to some extent it IS about the Democratic Party. From the TOS:

Vote for Democrats.
Winning elections is important — therefore, advocating in favor of Republican nominees or in favor of third-party spoiler candidates that could split the vote and throw an election to our conservative opponents is never permitted on Democratic Underground. But that does not mean that DU members are required to always be completely supportive of Democrats. During the ups-and-downs of politics and policy-making, it is perfectly normal to have mixed feelings about the Democratic officials we worked hard to help elect. When we are not in the heat of election season, members are permitted to post strong criticism or disappointment with our Democratic elected officials, or to express ambivalence about voting for them. In Democratic primaries, members may support whomever they choose. But when general election season begins, DU members must support Democratic nominees (EXCEPT in rare cases where were a non-Democrat is most likely to defeat the conservative alternative, or where there is no possibility of splitting the liberal vote and inadvertently throwing the election to the conservative alternative). For presidential contests, election season begins when both major-party nominees become clear. For non-presidential contests, election season begins on Labor Day. Everyone here on DU needs to work together to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of American government. If you are bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for our candidates during election season, we'll assume you are rooting for the other side.


Now, sure, we can get away with a lot outside of "election season," but by our words we are known--both to other DUers and the admins.

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Response to MADem (Reply #278)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 11:50 AM

290. But Obama is not a candidate.

Therefore, the TOS you quoted just above does not apply to criticisms of him.

Furthermore, it could be argued that the defense of Obama here interferes with the process of getting Democrats elected to offices in 2014 and 2016. The defense of Obama bogs and clogs up the message board.

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Response to grasswire (Reply #290)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:07 PM

292. I can't believe you said this:

".... the defense of Obama here interferes with the process of getting Democrats elected to offices in 2014 and 2016. The defense of Obama bogs and clogs up the message board."

I think that is probably one of the most bizarre comments I've ever seen on this board.


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Response to MADem (Reply #292)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:21 PM

294. go read the thread...

....where multiple members have posted their sense of offense at the vicious attacks here by defenders of Obama.

And I suppose you think the Joan of Arc reference to me is an insult? Duly noted.

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Response to grasswire (Reply #294)

Sun Jun 8, 2014, 11:18 PM

373. What Joan of Arc reference?

That picture is ALICE THROUGH THE LOOKING GLASS.

Know your meme...

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Response to MADem (Reply #292)

Sun Jun 8, 2014, 03:13 AM

360. Makes perfect sense to me. Defending right-wing policies and appointments is harmful ....

... to our party as it alienates the base.

I have difficulty fathoming why liberals would defend right-wing policies, and even more difficulty understanding why other liberals can't see this harms our cause.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #360)

Sun Jun 8, 2014, 11:21 PM

374. No, that's crap.

Right wing policies are those touted by Boehner, Cantor, et. al.

Frankly, I'd like, so long as we're talking about bullshit policies, to get rid of all the Paulbot shit, dressed up in liberal affectations, infesting this board like a horde of termites.

There's nothing liberal about those assholes--the attitudes on pot are just coincidental.

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Response to MADem (Reply #374)

Mon Jun 9, 2014, 02:05 AM

375. So you think right-wing policies can only come from Republicans?

Do you believe drone strikes, spying on citizens, chained CPI, too-big-to-fail-or-jail, secret trade agreements and similar policies are consistent with Democratic Party principles?

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Response to Scuba (Reply #375)

Mon Jun 9, 2014, 08:46 AM

377. "So you think" the POTUS is a right winger?

You know, those "So you think..." arguments are stale as last week's toast.

I guess all the help those terrible Democrats did in helping Liz Warren win her Senate seat, and vaulting her as a newcomer to the banking committee means nothing?

And when, pray tell, has "chained CPI" been IMPLEMENTED? Not tossed out like a crumb to get assholes to the table, but IMPLEMENTED?

And what "secret trade agreements?" Getting mad because you aren't "in" on the discussions that predate any actual agreements doesn't cut it. Did you want a seat at the table for the Berghdahl negotiations, too? Because it's your "right?"

As for "spying on citizens" you might have crabbed and cried about that a decade--or three--ago...and make sure you yell at your supermarket, drugstore, airline, and remember that every time you give up information to facebook, twitter, and every contest entry, that you are part of the problem. Get rid of that smart phone, too--it can track you, and that's no good (unless you're at the bottom of a ravine). Only drive an old car, the new ones have that ONSTAR thing in 'em that can be activated even if you don't pay for it (Obama didn't invent ONSTAR, either, just so you know). Oh, and let's take down every camera that records the average person a dozen or more times a day--in some urban environments, hundreds of times a day--yeah, that'll happen because you say so.

And, so long as we're complaining, let's tell the Russians, the Chinese, the Brits, the French, the Romanians, the Israelis, and every other nation with skin in the monitoring game to just STOP because we don't LIKE it! That'll convince 'em!

You know, Chicken Little learned that insisting that the sky is falling will persuade people to disregard you after a time. It's a good lesson.

The horse has left the barn. If you think you're going to stop surveillance with a foot stomp and a "That's outrageous" you'd better think again.

It's too late, baby! Even if we don't do it, someone else will. Welcome to the new world--if you don't want to be surveilled, you will have to take active measures to avoid it. Go on--start by getting off the net, and getting rid of that smartphone...it's the only way to be "sure" that no one sees what you're doing!

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Response to MADem (Reply #377)

Mon Jun 9, 2014, 09:14 AM

378. Wow, I'm amazed that a longtime DU member would defend that stuff.

"... chained CPI ... tossed out like a crumb to get assholes to the table..."

Yes, the basis for the starting position in any negotiation should be to adopt the opposition's positions as your own. At least if you want to give away the store.

A non-right-wing starting point would be lowering the eligibility age for SS, increasing the benefit and lifting the cap, not "a crumb" of capitulation. Unless you're trying to make things better rather than worse.

And it's not "a crumb" to SS recipients. It's food on the table.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #378)

Mon Jun 9, 2014, 10:36 AM

379. That line of attack is getting stale, too.

Why don't you try, for a change, to see the world as it is?

Instead of pretending that you're "Shocked, SHOCKED!!!!" and "Outraged, I tell you...OUTRAGED!!!!!" at what has been going on for many decades, now?

So, tell me--has the "Chained CPI" thing happened? Hmmmm? No? Anyone? Beuhler?

So stow your faux drama about "crumbs," do. No changes have been made, so stop crying like they have been. The sky is NOT falling.

With people living and working longer, and remaining healthier into old age (and thanks to that Obamacare that some so-called lefties were crabbing about on this message board, they'll be healthier still as time goes by) you're not going to see the age for SS lowered. Holding it will be a massive victory. And since the GOP won't negotiate with the melanin-enhanced POTUS, they won't be able to make any changes. That's a win in my book.

Still and all, Obama can legitimately say he tried to get them to talk to him, though they refused.

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Response to MADem (Reply #379)

Mon Jun 9, 2014, 03:19 PM

387. Excellent subthread, MADem.

Thank you so much for such an entertaining episode. Well done.

I especially liked Alice through the looking glass!

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #387)

Mon Jun 9, 2014, 03:55 PM

388. Well, I gotta say....

When Alice was mistaken for Joan of Arc I felt like I'd just gone through that doggone looking glass, myself!

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Response to bigtree (Reply #9)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 09:04 PM

24. A refreshingly even-handed comment

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Response to bigtree (Reply #9)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 09:36 PM

47. Bigtree, I have no problem with people speaking out their concerns.

And have compassion to many that do.

However, have you noticed that many here that bash this President daily never express a positive? Never. He is called a POS and that stands on DU and is applauded by many.

Change my title, omit Praise and substitute Criticize. That is part of an OP from last night. They admitted that they do it for the rec's.

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #47)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 09:54 PM

55. I know some folks just like to aggravate

. . . and I know you have no problem with dissent, sheshe2.

Thing is, I don't believe most folks seek out a place called Democratic Underground to express satisfaction, even during a Democratic presidency. Contented people seem to be less likely to speak out than those who believe their voices aren't being heard, who believe their concerns and needs aren't getting enough attention and focus. It seems natural and understandable, to me, that discontent and disagreement would attract more support and attention than those things we feel have been resolved.

Yeah, the internet is a malcontent's haven. I just happen to think the reality of that is a motivating and energizing catalyst in our necessarily perpetual and vigilant advocacy.

Try to not take that dissent personally, and maybe take some comfort in how integral the instinct to agitation is to our efforts to effect progressive change.

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Response to sheshe2 (Original post)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 08:50 PM

10. I give Obama good grades on drug policy, although that will elicit some howls.

 

He and Holder have been very good on sentencing reform, especially around the hideous crack/powder cocaine sentencing disparity, which affects almost exclusively black people. And now, they're actually asking drug war prisoners to apply for clemency.

The Obama administration has not threatened other countries that are enacting or contemplating drug reforms. That's a first.

And they're dealing with medical marijuana and marijuana legalization in a relatively enlightened way. Yeah, there have been raids on medical marijuana people and some of them are rotting in federal prison, but that seems to have lessened in the past couple of years--partly because people know what the Justice Department is going to go after, and partly because Justice has largely limited itself to people who violate its guidelines.

But Obama is basically allowing state-level legalization to take place. They could have fought it in various ways, but they haven't.

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Response to sheshe2 (Original post)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 08:51 PM

11. You were referring to this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025055646
So... Since The GOP Has Become Batshit Racist And Crazy... We Are Not Allowed To Criticize The Pres?


Your post is so timely, thank you! Obama has earned and deserves total respect. I am proud of him and not afraid to say so.

But you knew that.

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Response to babylonsister (Reply #11)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 09:00 PM

18. Yes it was what I was referring to, bsis.

Thanks~

And ya! I knew that.

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Response to babylonsister (Reply #11)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 09:17 PM

34. Never would I have expected

to see a thread like that on a place that calls itself DemocraticUnderground. Not in a million years. What a weird thing to post on a site like this.

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Response to sheshe2 (Original post)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 08:51 PM

12. I believe i read last night that the reason some can't give him any credit is because.......

Anti Obama posts get more recs. I believe thats was the jist of it.
My best explanation for the lack of support he receives here as opposed to the broad support he receives from the party as a whole is because the make up/demographics of DU is not representative of the party's demographics nationally. The base of the party is women, Blacks, Asians and Latinos/Hispanics along with LGBT and young people. The make up of DU skews heavily older, whiter, and more male than the Democratic party and has a heavy streak of Libertarianism. We have been seeing a bit of a xenophobic attitude lately, a coldness towards AA's, some homophobia and a nice tasty dash of sexism to round out the course. And those posts can go to jury and stand.
Why would anyone who isn't already here who is of the base as i described above want to join and engage with us just to be called a Obamabot or a reverse racist or a screeching feminist or told to speak english or go away by democrats?
Our democratic board has so much in common with republican boards i like to read and compare us to them and sometimes i LOL at the similarities between their posters and ours.
I have read too many times here that we need to try to reach out to... Drumroll please...... WHITE MEN! Not our base, and our voters, but we need to reach out to old white males and not say stuff that might make them anxious. Why? Because the board is full of them and some of them think that the nation is not paying attention to their problems.


That's my tldr explanation of the sickness that we suffer from.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #12)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 09:08 PM

26. I agree with the part about older people dominating DU. This is anecdotal but I

get the impression from reading comments at this site that most posters are older and many are really old. We have the Baby Boomers Forum and the Seniors Forum. But where is a forum for young people? There isn't one. I don't mean to sound ageist, and I realize we all get there one day, but I wish there were more people closer to my age at this forum.

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Response to totodeinhere (Reply #26)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 09:21 PM

37. "where is a forum for young people?"

That's actually not a bad idea. I remember when I was on Datehookup.com, that site had separate forums for all the age groups, and people were allowed to post random stuff.

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Response to totodeinhere (Reply #26)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 09:31 PM

42. We do need a forum for the under 35's.

I only used 35 because i'm 33 and i want to be included.
Somebody needs to start one.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #42)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 09:41 PM

51. Well would you allow me to post there once in awhile if we get one?

I am almost twice your age, bravenak.

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #51)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 10:07 PM

64. Of course anyone should be allowed to post regardless of age but the

focus of the forum would be issues important to a younger age group. And conversely I'm sure that I would be welcome in the seniors forum to discuss issues important to seniors. As I said we all get there one day.

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Response to totodeinhere (Reply #64)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 10:20 PM

73. Well thanks, totodeinhere

And LOL, I don't consider myself a senior yet and am not part of that forum. Give me another 15 years or so, maybe I will apply. I feel pretty young. You will to when you get here. You are as young as you feel!

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Response to totodeinhere (Reply #64)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 10:33 PM

82. And the alternative is that you never get there.

Depends on which you prefer.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #82)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 08:46 AM

247. Hopefully our spirit and outlook will remain young and optimistic.

I was just referring to our chronological ages.

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Response to totodeinhere (Reply #247)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 08:48 AM

248. It's what I was referring to also.

You either get old or you die young.

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #51)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 10:13 PM

70. I never exclude anyone. And you in particular can go anywhere with me.

We would need somebody to talk to instead of just the ten or so of us posting gifs and wondering why it's so quiet and lonely.
Maybe i should send out a PM to ten trusted DUERS and ask what they think.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #70)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:13 PM

115. Well I know you would not exclude me...

thanks sweetie!

And I just choked on my wine reading your last line!



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Response to bravenak (Reply #42)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 06:56 AM

206. I'd like to see a group for college students as well

It seems like the education group is more for policy than anything (nothing wrong with that, my guess is there are a lot of teachers on DU). I support both ideas.

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Response to totodeinhere (Reply #26)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 10:26 PM

76. Why you young whippersnapper



Actually, it's easy easy to start a new forum, so have at it.

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Response to totodeinhere (Reply #26)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:06 PM

108. "most posters are older and many are really old."

Well you don't have to get older. There are alternatives.

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Response to totodeinhere (Reply #26)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:18 PM

121. age is just a number

if you are wise beyond your years, join the chorus of us...

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Response to icarusxat (Reply #121)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 08:50 AM

249. I understand what you are saying, but in our society we are often categorized by our age

whether we like it or not. At my age I am ineligible for Medicare for instance. And in some states older people are required to renew their driver licenses more frequently. We can't escape our ages completely.

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Response to totodeinhere (Reply #26)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 07:18 AM

215. True and older people are more critical of everything

It was the way it was in school and growing up. Every little mistake could be dwelt on, because there wasn't as much information out there as there is now. You had people who were upset at scores of 99% on tests because it was not 100%. Nobody believed in encouragement as they do today. It was all assuming the worst of you and dwelling on mistakes and paying no attention to successes, taking that for granted.

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Response to treestar (Reply #215)

Sun Jun 8, 2014, 03:13 AM

361. Oh my Godz

You are damaging my brain.

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Response to Hissyspit (Reply #361)

Sun Jun 8, 2014, 08:09 AM

363. Thank you!

I read that post and just thought, "WTF???", and quickly moved on - because I couldn't figure out how to even begin to deal with the unbelievable wtf-ness of it.

I'm so glad you posted your response - it's perfect!

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Response to Hissyspit (Reply #361)

Sun Jun 8, 2014, 08:31 PM

372. It was damaged already

What do you not get? If you grew up in the 60s you got a lot of criticism. Because they believed you need that or you'd have too big a head.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #12)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 09:13 PM

32. I am pissed off at the Democratic Partyv because it has become too cozy with...

Wealth and Corporate Power.

That's a problem that affects all of us.

Liberal on "social issues" if one is apathetic/supportive of the status quo of concentrated wealth and power doesn't cut it in my book.

I would hope that women,women, Blacks, Asians and Latinos/Hispanics along with LGBT and young people would also be critical of that, because it is oppressing you too. After us "old white guys" are gone, you will have to live under the stifling weight of an entrenched Oligarchy and Monopoly Capitalism unless we all push the party back to economic progressive populism and liberalism.



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Response to Armstead (Reply #32)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 09:29 PM

41. After you old guys are gone the rest of us will make up the new majority.

I think it will take much less time than the estimates project. I have two children, he has four, i expect to have two more and that will still mean i will have the least amount of children for a Lady in my family. My grandmother had ten. Most of my friends have several already and are continuing to procreate. Many of my white friends are in mixed marriages and have several children who identify as asian or black or hispanic not white. Minorities are not cozy with wall street for the most part, and women especially single one are less likely to vote Republican. So in twenty years we will not have 2 Parties run by Old white Dudes who service the rich. We will be voting ourselves a right good part of their money, praise R'hllor.

You got to realize that power is shifting towards a more liberal society and that it is the old white men who are standing in the way of progress, passing shit laws and fighting against womens rights. The kids growing up see their congressmen screeching about illegals, urban youths, thugs, wetbacks and more. They will not be voting for Republicans. And Democrats better get our shit together and start bringing in the next generation quickly before Republicans decide to get smart, steal our platform, and out voters. Because sorry to tell you, the youth is not interested in the NSA all day everyday, they post every private thought they have on Tumblr, facebook, etc.

They will kill wall street when they get their time. I'll be right here helping them find the means. And we need their help to do it because the old party bosses still control the legislature, for now.
The only way to get the votes is to get the voters engaged. And horror stories about how much you hate Obama is not a good lure when you are fishing in a pond of Obama supporters, and the youth , women, lgbt's, and minorities are supporters of this President. You are driving them away and losing us votes.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #41)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 09:43 PM

52. Ha!

Rather then referring to old white men you ought to get off your immature high horse and start looking at issues in terms of issues and realize that you're playing the same game as the Republicans in terms of stereotypes.

A lot of old white guys were championing civil rights equality, etc. long before the next generation was even a glimmer of possibility.

And if you're biding your time until you get a chance to "kill wall street" I'd say you're blowing it if you ignore the continuing entrenchment of the power of the Gilded Age Oligarchs -- a lot of us old white people have been sounding the alarm about that for years. . And you also a bit blind if you ignore the fact that many of your contemporaries are contributing to that process in their professional lives even as they champion social issues.

What is behind the dislike of much of what Obama does is not because he is liberal on some social issues, or is an African American, or any of that. It's because he is contributing to a wrong turn towards increasing Corporate Power and decimation of the economic safety net for average people. Ad so many democrats have done, they package Republican economic policies in a more appealing social package.

That's the problem. Some old white guys conribute to the probkem, but so does anyone who gives them a pass and says it's okay to do things like sell out the Internet and pass secret right-wing trade agreements



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Response to Armstead (Reply #52)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 10:02 PM

60. Immature high horse. You sound so old.

I just laid out the world as seen from my view down here in the gutter and my telling you that the vicious of the attacks against the president is not winning voters to our side. It is not helping to engage the youth or women or minorities. You know, the people who make up the bulk of our party.
Those low minded liberals who try to accomplish what they can and move us toward a more perfect union are not the ones who will receive the wrath of the future voters.
And talking down to younger voters and blaming my contemporaries for not fixing the problems caused during YOUR time, during the reagan revolution is silly and disingenuous.

We had two choices for president and we choses the best candidate both times by electing Barack Obama, i am Proud of my choice and i would fill in that bubble for him over McCain or Romney any day. There were no other candidates that appealed to a majority of voters.

If you have problems with the amount of power corporations have you need to look to the legislature and the supreme courts. Blaming everything that has gone wrong in this nation on one man majes you all sound....... Like republicans.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #60)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:10 PM

113. I believe your insults toward older people here are something quite new.

I don't remember ever seeing it happen here.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #113)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:20 PM

125. They are not insults.

This is my view of the issue. Sometimes the truth hurts us the most when we are unaware that there was even a problem.
Would you prefer i not give my opinion? The older people in the party need to start reaching out to the next generation of voters, be more inclusive, and notice when there are no minorities in the conversation.
And when we speak out, instead of getting pissed and feeling oppressed, realize that you are not the oppressed, we are. And we are asking to be included in the discussions and sometimes we get offended when our politicians that we support are denigrated by the party. We would like for you to support us a bit more and we will return the favor in the future. Our votes matter and our voices too often get shut out by the cacophony of wailing and the gnashing if teeth.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #125)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:24 PM

131. You think the issues are mostly with the elderly?

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #131)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:25 PM

132. Mostly men and mostly older.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #132)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:27 PM

135. The jury agrees with you. Which carries bad connotations even for us white women.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #135)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:32 PM

139. I am sorry for that truly.

I am sorry you are hurt by my words and i want you to know that i have never seen you post anything harmful or hurtful to me. We all suffer the sins of others in our nation.
The woman's burden. It's a shame really, white women just barely got the right to vote and own themselves and now we lump them in with their former oppressors. I do feel bad that i hurt you.
I just cannot think of another way to express what i see.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #113)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 02:14 AM

179. Didn't you just note to another poster that there are "alternatives" to getting old?

For simply daring to note the obvious -- that many DUers are out of touch with the Dem party and for wanting to have a forum for members close to his age?

For sure, that is something I know I don't remember seeing here before.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #60)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 05:08 AM

194. Worth looking at actual voting figures before using your broad brush

2012 exit poll: http://elections.nbcnews.com/ns/politics/2012/all/president/#exitPoll

Look at the 'Age by Race' category. because 'white 45-64' is by far the largest category, it's also the largest category for 'voted for Obama'. Here's where the Obama vote came from:
White 45-64 11.02
White 30-44 6.84
White 65+ 5.46
White 18-29 4.84
Black 30-44 3.76
Black 45-64 3.72
All other 3.35
Latino 18-29 2.96
Black 18-29 2.73
Latino 30-44 2.13
Latino 45-64 2.04
Black 65+ 0.93
Latino 65+ 0.65

You are right that women are the majority of Democratic voters (29.15% to 21.15% men). The median age for an Obama voter is about 44 (see the figures for the 1st "in which age group are you?" question). If you regard "under 45" as 'youth', then you can say youth make up the bulk of the Democratic party, but most people would use a younger age than that.

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #194)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 05:46 AM

195. I was really speaking of the proportion of demographic to how they voted.

Blacks vote democratic whether they are male or female, a higher percentage of us vote for democratic candidates than any other group. Hispanics are a growing population demographic and we vote democratic also, a high percentage of us vote dem. Millenials are a large group also and skew left, young minority millenials vote dem in high percentage with white millenials voting dem less than their minority counterparts. As you go up the age demographic the votes for republican candidates go up with minorities skewing left and the majority skewing right. This is not a broadbrush, this is just how the votes go and the political views lay of Americans.

I wasn't saying youth make up the party, i was saying that the party is made up of women, minorities, lgbts and younger voters with white males voting in lower percentages for democratic candidates. 18-35 or 40 to me is a young voter since we don't get to start voting until 18. This information is not controversial.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #195)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 06:26 AM

202. This is the first time you've mentioned percentages or proportions

"The base of the party is women, Blacks, Asians and Latinos/Hispanics along with LGBT and young people. "
"the youth or women or minorities. You know, the people who make up the bulk of our party. "

You seemed to think these categories actually described majorities in the party. That's only true for women. And yes, "it is the old white men who are standing in the way of progress, passing shit laws and fighting against womens rights" is a broad brush.

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #202)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 06:30 AM

203. If you add women to minorities and younger voters you get a majority of dems.

The majority of dems are not older white men. They are women, minorities and younger voters. I am absolutely correct without even using percentages or proportions. And it is old white men standing in the way of my progress. Most of them are republican.
You have not seen restrictive laws against black votong and womens wombs put forwards by young white women. Old white men push those laws and get them passed.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #203)

Sun Jun 8, 2014, 02:17 AM

358. This

And it is old white men standing in the way of my progress. Most of them are republican.
You have not seen restrictive laws against black votong and womens wombs put forwards by young white women. Old white men push those laws and get them passed.


madfloridian posted in an op she's been away for a year. She doesn't have any idea about what we've been reading around here. It's creepy sometimes. But a youth board or nextgen - that sounds cool. GenX and younger. Cut off at issues for those born in 69 or later.

Why? We understand the deck of cards in play and put Bill Clinton in office.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #60)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 08:08 AM

238. I am getting old...but I wouldn't have said that to all young people

There are a lot of young people I admire and respect. It has nothing to do with age.

It has everything to do with attitude. There are huge numbers of young people I would not apply the term immature to.

But your dismissiveness of anyone not within your own definitions of demographically acceptable is immature.

Your statements are engaged in the pitting of people against each other is a lot like the mirror image of the GOP and wingnuts. You equating a lot of stuff by age, race, sex, ethnic etc.

I LIKE President Obama, agree with him on much (including the fact that he has a 3D view of racial issues) etc. Etc. Blah.

But on the issues that ultimately drive who gets what, who holds the power, etc. I profoundly disgaree with many of the things he has done...Just as I profoundly disagree with the

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Response to bravenak (Reply #60)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 04:14 PM

321. You are missing the point I'm afraid

"And talking down to younger voters and blaming my contemporaries for not fixing the problems caused during YOUR time, during the reagan revolution is silly and disingenuous."

The problems became entrenched during the "Reagan revolution" and the problems continue due to the influences of the Democrats that decided to absorb the Reagan economic policies into a new branch of "Democrats" (New Democrats), as well as the party that spawned Reagan, and among the New Democrats that have adopted his policies is our current president.

You need to study up on the topic if you wish to discuss Reaganization issues, because in fact those are centrist positions by design and definition.

A quick primer below: (there is much more to know about the 30 year "Reaganization" effort against our party which is responsible for shifted us so far to the right of center regarding all but social issues, but a few key facts should get you started on understanding "Centrists" and how much damage has been done by them).

New Democrats, in the politics of the United States, are an ideologically centrist faction within the Democratic Party that emerged after the victory of Republican George H. W. Bush in the 1988 presidential election. They are identified with centrist social/cultural/pluralist positions and neoliberal fiscal values. They are represented by organizations such as the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC), the New Democrat Network, and the Senate and House New Democrat Coalitions.

After the landslide electoral losses to Ronald Reagan in the 1980s, a group of prominent Democrats began to believe their party was in need of a radical shift in economic policy and ideas of governance. The Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) was founded in 1985 by Al From and a group of like-minded politicians and strategists. They advocated a political "Third Way" as a method to achieve the electoral successes of Reaganism by adopting similar economic policies (Reagan Democrats and Moderate Republicans would provide burgeoning new constituencies after adding these new economic policies and politicians to our tent they contended) While hoping to retain, woman, minorities and other social issues allies with long ties to the party. Such would be their new Democratic coalition forged between fiscal right and social left under the "New" Democratic banner.

The term Third Way refers to various political positions which try to reconcile right-wing and left-wing politics by advocating a varying synthesis of right-wing economic and left-wing social policies. Third Way was created as a serious re-evaluation of political policies within various centre-left progressive movements in response to international doubt regarding the economic viability of the state; economic interventionist policies that had previously been popularized by Keynesianism and contrasted with the corresponding rise of popularity for neo liberalism and the New Right. In a sense, 80s Moderate Republicans are almost identical to "Third Way" Democrats, one reason I found Obama's statement that he was, policy wise, closest to an 80's Republican refreshingly honest and at the time I gave him kudos for his honesty.


The idea that such sold out Democrats are liberal simply because they champion liberal social issues is the reason they have been so effective in imposing conservative economic policy during those times when the Republicans lacked the power to do so.

I think your youth is partly to blame for thinking Reaganesque policies are liberal because the DLC Democrats support them when in fact liberal economic theory was part of the party from the thirties until the eighties. A time before you were politically active and so you likely do not know that Keynesian economic policy is a Democratic option that is no longer tried (but yet was the most successful for the larger population than Chicago school economics has ever been).

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #321)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 09:48 PM

346. Excellent post! Well said!

The idea that such sold out Democrats are liberal simply because they champion liberal social issues is the reason they have been so effective in imposing conservative economic policy during those times when the Republicans lacked the power to do so.


I'm of a generation when left economic policies were actually the norm. People who became politically aware after Reagan have no idea how this country used to be, what the Democratic Party used to stand for, what life was like in the pre-corporate globalization years when unions were strong, monopolies were broken up, tariffs protected domestic production of goods, and taxes on the upper income brackets were high.

It has long astounded and saddened me that there are so many people willing to accept social liberalism as sufficient, as the benchmark of being "liberal".

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #321)

Sun Jun 8, 2014, 10:00 AM

364. Great post, Dragonfli.

Last edited Sun Jun 8, 2014, 10:45 AM - Edit history (1)

This is exactly why I don't see the Democratic party becoming more liberal, even after the "old guys are gone." It has less to do with demographics than the political atmosphere of the last thirty or so years and where it's pulled the party.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #321)

Sun Jun 8, 2014, 11:25 AM

366. Great post! Those ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it, and those ignorant of present reality

are all too often the unwitting tools of the 1%.

For those ignorant history and present reality, I post these educational materials for their convenience, in the hope they may get an inkling of the reality of our present situation, and not doom future generations to lives of complete hopelessness by naively aiding and abetting the real enemies of democracy, freedom, and most everything that is good and beautiful in our world.

Please, stop living in the past, and being part of the problem, and become an active part of the solution, and help give yourselves and future generations a shot at a life with a safe environment and real options for a high quality life.











Don't support this:



Support this:


“Our strategy should be not only to confront empire, but to lay siege to it. To deprive it of oxygen. To shame it. To mock it. With our art, our music, our literature, our stubbornness, our joy, our brilliance, our sheer relentlessness – and our ability to tell our own stories. Stories that are different from the ones we’re being brainwashed to believe.

The corporate revolution will collapse if we refuse to buy what they are selling – their ideas, their version of history, their wars, their weapons, their notion of inevitability.

Remember this: We be many and they be few. They need us more than we need them.

Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing.”


― Arundhati Roy

lib·er·al

open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values.

con·serv·a·tive

holding to traditional attitudes and values and cautious about change or innovation, typically in relation to politics or religion.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #41)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 10:28 PM

80. " After you old guys are gone the rest of us will make up the new majority."

What majority would that be, could you clarify? Please?

So now you think old guys are the problem?

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #80)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 10:55 PM

94. You should read the whole thing.

He said 'once us old guys are gone', so i repeated it and continued with my line of thought.

The new majority as i see it will be, women, single parents, minorities, and LGBT, the older population skews more white and less liberal in their social views and voting patterns. 5,4,3,2 their time is up. It's a song by Jade from the nineties.


Yes. I do think old males are the problem. Yes. Definitely. Older (white)males are more conservative (vote republican-older black males and hispanic males are quite conservative socially but vote liberal)than my generation, Millennials, and vote to keep the power in the hands of the few. Younger white males and females vote more Democratic but not as much as minorities and single white mothers. They are a part of the solution. So are we, the minorities that get ignored and the women who are called screeching feminists. As a black woman here, i have been told by a fellow liberal to 'go watch real housewives of Atlanta', you know, the 'Black' real Housewives. I have also been told that Black Men leave their families and Black women have too many kids and don't know how to use birth control. The first post got deleted but you can find it in my thread in AA called 'you can say anything you want about black people and get way with it'. The second stood a jury and one of the jurors said i should refute it instead of alerting. An all black jury would have seen the racism in that post, but our jury thinks that kinda post belongs on a democratic site. See what i mean.

Older liberals have been waiting for a big block of liberals to come into the party and change the game. We have arrived. And we do not feel wanted and are concerned by the shutting down of conversation about the issues that matter to us in favor of all day every day Obama criticism. The new big block of voters consist of democrats who like the President and are democrats because of him. So am I. I was not even interested until him because i knew my vote did not count for shit in America. Maybe it still doesn't unless i vote for who the 'real' democrats choose. Or i bash Obama.

Now, you have the right to criticize all day every day if you want to, but it's getting quite difficult to tell the difference between an angry old liberal and an angry old republican. You all sound just alike and i read talking points on Red State and them come to DU and read the same thing here. Cannot tell y'all apart by your words, the only difference i can see is the D.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #94)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 10:58 PM

95. You are saying we all sound alike? Like Republicans? Well You won the jury poll....

so I guess you are the winner.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #95)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:05 PM

105. I can see that this upsets you.

I feel the same way every time a member posts black on black crime stats and black on white crime stats without even thinking about posting the white on white stats or the white on black stats. And when i was called the worst racist on DU in a pm. And the Asian privilege thread. And the he's not white he's half asian thing. And when a poster used the n word and i asked him what it meant and i got alerted on. The gefilte fish post. The chicken threads. The piece of shit thing, turds and shit is a term used by racists to denigrate blacks, i know that for sure, i went to a majority white HS for three years and i got called that in gym class by a neonazi kid everyday until i snapped on him. Poor guy will probably have breathing problems for ever. Yes. I feel like a winner.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #105)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:13 PM

114. Oh, yes it does upset me. I never use the n word, never have.

Since the jury thinks what you are saying is okay, then fine....you win.

I have just never seen it happen here. It's a shame, really.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #114)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:26 PM

134. It's been an issue since before i joined.

Really. I am not trying to pick on older people, i hope to be one eventually science and my health permitting.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #134)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:28 PM

137. Please continue.

This is getting interesting.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #114)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 08:33 AM

245. sad state of things here.

there is so much ugly in this thread.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #94)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 10:59 PM

98. I think every older DUer should read what you just posted. Every word of it.

And then they should read it again.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #98)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:13 PM

116. I agree.

If i can handle the way the black community gets trashed by America, i think they are strong enough to read it and if it doesn't apply let it fly. I deal with hearing black youth horror stories and hearing white politicians look down on our communities since birth and i have survived and i thrive.
It is painful for me and may be painful for you to read, but this is how a young black woman with a bit of intelligence see's the political landscape of our time.

When we speak out people get upset at our words and their guilty feelings and refuse to see the truth in our statements. We get ignored, told to pipe down, and are redirected to issues that are not the issues that we want to work on. What we say does not count, it gets us rejected and shut down.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #116)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:15 PM

119. Who here trashes the black community? Name the older people here at DU who do that?

When you make such claims you have a responsibility to follow through with sources.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #119)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:24 PM

130. I just told you.

In AA there are threads galore about the issues colored folks have on DU. I wrote one myself titled ' you can say anything to black people and get away with it.'

LiberalStalwart wrote one recently.

There is also one titled ' Racism, alive and well in the democratic party'

We also have a running list of racist things said to us by fellow duers.

You should go and take a gander at the threads and read a bit and let me know if you want to discuss any of it.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #133)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:27 PM

136. African American.

Most here don't realize that we exist in a forum. That's where we go when we want to post interesting articles or just vent or get support when we get hurt.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #136)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 05:51 AM

197. Regarding this exchange, I want to draw your attention to something....

This thread, on seniors and the Democratic Party.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x261440


Which references a prior thread that is also worth reading on the seniors/DU issue. Just some background.

TO THE JURY: It is not against the TOS to refer to prior threads. The admin facilitate this by providing a very handy advanced search function.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #197)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 06:08 AM

199. Thank you.

I have a clearer picture of this whole thing now.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #199)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 06:16 AM

200. Want clearer?

Google my username and "Black Agenda Report." "Cornel West" "Tavis Smiley" and the relevant usernames and you will see some interesting threads.

To The Jury....it is not against the TOS to refer to prior threads...the admin provides advanced search for just that function.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #200)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 07:26 AM

219. That was pretty bad.

I hate the BAR. I really do. And Cornell West is never coming to my inaguration when i get elected to high office. That type of thing really bothers him. I'll invite my driver and all of the hotel staff and leave him crying in the lobby. Then he and Tavis Smiley can make money trashing me all over america. Just like they do to Obama since he never invited Cornell West to something or other and now run around trash talking him. What a waste.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #136)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 07:04 AM

207. Probably true

I only know because I wonder into the Asian Group often because it's the closest thing (besides Americans Abroad) that I identify with given I live in Asia.

That's kind of one of the things about DU that disappoints me at times, that there aren't many groups that are interesting to me.

BTW I grew up in a small town in Oregon (wasn't born there) in the 80's and saw how nasty people were toward minorities, AA in general.

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Response to davidpdx (Reply #207)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 07:11 AM

209. Feel free to visit us when we have a thread going.

I lived in a small town too once. Think it almost has 3000 people now. Terrible exoerience for me as a child, but when i went back i at least still had my mexican friends there and could at least find a place to fit in. Knowing spanish and having a hispanic surname saved me from being ostrasized, but they still have a certain attitude towards us.

I haven't been over to the Asian group yet, maybe one day i'll stop by and take a look. I wonder if we have a Hispanic forum.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #119)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:56 PM

145. There are many here that trash the black community here madfloridian

I have no clue as to the ages of the people that do, yet it happens daily.

As bravenak said, go read AA. Sadly you did not even know what that was. The small African American community that we have left on DU. It is their forum.

I am white and I am female and I sadly, I have to say a senior of sorts, yet I don't feel old. I can still kick ass and run around most of my younger coworkers.

Please go read the posts there. You will understand much if you do.

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #145)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:04 AM

146. The only groups I use are Computer Help, Education, and What's for Dinner.

It is not racism that I did not know that forum is there. It is because I don't think of things that way.

The people saying those things should be handled promptly by a jury.

I don't know who here is white or black. I was really surprised to see the anger toward old white men, and also the slams by two people about the old people here holding back progress.

It should be their forum. Like the Barack Obama forum should belong to those who post there. There should be no room for attacks like that in either forum.

I do not think that the elderly should be attacked though, it doesn't make good sense.

I have not done a search of the forums, only when I am looking for a particular one. It has nothing to do with age or race...

I am sorry some make those attacks. I never have and I never will. It's wrong.

But attacking the elderly because they are old and saying they are in the way of progress is wrong as well.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #146)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:28 AM

153. I never thought it was racism that you did not know about the group.

As for the elderly, I don't really see it that way and I am just over 60. Our party is for all age groups and our youth are so very important for our future. IMHO it was not an attack yet a call for our youth to come together. They are our future madfloridian. They are not shoving us aside, they are taking up the mantle to continue the fight.

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #153)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:41 AM

157. They don't have to put down the elderly to "take up the mantle".

I have never put down youth, so I don't know where the heck that is coming from.

If that is the future of the party, that seniors are said to be holding us back....then count me out.

When the jury flat out says that old white men are holding back progress, and it is said at a Democratic forum where many of the old white men are very liberal...then there are problems.

If they believe this forum is too "old" for them, they can always start up their own.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #157)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 01:41 AM

170. I don't know where you are getting all that.

Seniors and I am one, are not being put down here or out to pasture so to speak. Our youth are still learning from us, yet soon it will be time to pass the mantle. They have an amazingly strong voice and they will be heard, they learned a lot from us after all. The fight has been going on forever. It will continue until it is done.

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #170)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 02:43 AM

189. I think you are not reading some of the posts carefully.

Those amazingly strong voices in this thread are not showing desire to learn from us, they are wanting to put us out to pasture.

It's like walking on eggshells around here. This is the first thread though in which I have encountered prejudice toward old people here at DU. I think you need to reread some of the comments.

Lately I have been accused of being racist, right wing, and hating Obama. None of those things are true.

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #170)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 03:06 PM

316. I agree with you

I am white, I am male and I am "old", over 60, but I did not get the impression that the younger posters were bashing me, nor did I see anything that suggested the wanted to put us all out to pasture and take over. Seems to me that some of the posters on this thread are lacking in reading skills and shouldn't read things into comments that are not there.

I want to see the younger generations get involved, and I think they see things from a different prospective. I also agree with them that bashing the president daily, as some here tend to do, isn't helping to get younger and minorities involved in the party. My son is only 20 and my daughter will be 23 in October. I love to here their view on things, even if I don't agree on everything they may say, we can at least talk about the problems we have in this country and find common ground. An example is infrastructure, my son and I both agree we need to invest in fixing it and in moving forward like Europe has been doing for ages. We have to keep he young involved, and listen to their ideas.

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #153)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 09:06 AM

253. Like you, I'm over 60.

And I'm delighted to see young Democrats who are passionate about politics!

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Response to bravenak (Reply #94)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:21 AM

150. what dominates politics in the US is talk radio

the racism is there and always will be but using it for political purposes, whether it's about the brown hordes coming across the border or some obscure news item chosen by a $200,000 a year high IQ sociopath working in a think tank, we're fucked until thinking americans figure out democracy, which can actually fix this, can't work as long as there are 1200 radio stations reaching 50 mil a week with think tank scripted lies all day long.

they put carnival barkers on every corner and stump in the country with GOP KKK-lite and until americans get that figured out and respond, we're fucked.

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Response to certainot (Reply #150)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:51 AM

160. We know what they are doing and the people who listen to that talk radio are....

Well, they are, hmmm how should i put this, not the demographic that is interested in a more liberal society. They are clowns and the only people who do not know it are the listeners. They are not increasing their audience, their audience is dying off. The big influx of new voters in this country are the hispanic/minority voters and young voters and screaming about brown hordes coming across the border is not going to get much play.

It's actually hurting their cause so i don't mind them so much, because they are reaching to their own choir and letting us listen in to their death rattle. I give it about five years until the hosts start dying off and are replaced by Tejano music stations and 70's music. Really. It's just about over.
The GOP died with Reagan. The just didn't know it yet so they had a Tea Party.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #160)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 01:20 AM

166. we don't have time to wait for it to die out

those motherfuckers already cost us 20 years.

that's why we'll spend valuable time on bergdahl

because the left ignored them those radio stations got us into afghanistan and iraq and almost iran, gave us bush thomas alito roberts, one shitload of deregulation, tax breaks for billionaires, and a reagan-was-god history rewrite that may actually hold!

it made the difference the last 25 years and the bergdahl buzzgasm proves it's still going strong- that's what every local and national talk radio blowhard has been pushing the last week- and it always works because the left would rather listen to a scratched barry manilow cd from under the seat than be aware of what's dominating messaging in the US.

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Response to certainot (Reply #166)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 01:49 AM

171. LOL!!

I just cracked up for a cool minute!
You're right, i do listen to it everyday, i can't help myself. There was a dude on last week blaming the Africans for slavery and blamed JayZ for everything else. It just sounds so stupid i can't believe anyone with a brain could get into it without approaching it like a comedy act.
But the listeners are the same people who were listening 25 year ago. My stepdad started when Rush first got started and he's been dead for years. Suicide. I really do sort of blame talk Radio and the OJ trial a bit. It drove him mad.
Those people are in their seventies now and with voter ID the republicans are thinning their own herd while they thin ours and we have more voters turning 18 every day so the pendulum has swung left and the nation is playing catch up. Next presidential election will be the one where republicans show fear and start scrambling for fresh voters. It wont work because they hate everybody that does not look like them. We may have lost twenty years to their bullshit, but they lost the future with their hate and xenophobia. The Tea party dug their grave.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #171)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 11:36 AM

285. i hope you're right, but it needs to happen really soon. they're getting ready to divide up

the antarctic.

the problem is still this: in most parts of the US there are no free alternatives for political talk while driving or working. so even if their main demographic is considered to be old white men, it's on in the background everywhere, repeating and repeating, coordinated and loud, and for a lot of people those stations are often the only sources for current events before going home to tell the family and friends. and many of those stations are the loudest in their states, working hard for the koch think tanks leading up to elections, and may be the only sources in emergencies.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #171)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 11:42 AM

288. PS, the OJ trial was maddening. it was a great eg of how effective rw radio was for

politicizing racializing spinning and blowing up otherwise 'mundane' events.

with my conspiracy mindedness i even entertained the notion OJ was set up exactly for that purpose. i forgot what the other more important events were at the time, that it was distracting from.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #94)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 07:10 AM

208. I can tell you the problem isn't exclusive to the US

I see the same problem here in Korea. The older generation is very conservative and stern. Generally Korea has become much more multicultural then it was when I got here 10 years ago. I am not a permanent resident and can vote in local elections and I support the same causes whether it is in the US or Korea. I spent the week before the election prodding my students about voting as many of them are voting for the first time.

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Response to davidpdx (Reply #208)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 07:13 AM

212. I figured the problem was widespread.

We are seeing a backlash against conservative policies now thankfully. They just don't work for everyone ( except the rich) and are not in the best interest of my family.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #80)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 11:25 AM

280. In terms of both voting and issue positions, older white men are a strongly GOP constituency overall

That doesn't mean that there aren't plenty of older white male Democrats and liberals, but they are definitely a minority if you look at the aggregate.

In contrast, the younger generations-which are also more diverse in terms of race, ethnicity, family structure, and social status than the older generations-are much more Democratic and liberal.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Reply #280)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 11:31 AM

284. The younger generation in this thread just denigrated the "old people" here at DU.

That doesn't sound very open-minded to me.

I am older, and I have been under the gun for griping about Obama's attacks on public education, and his tendency to want to cut Social Security while calling it something else.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #284)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 01:17 PM

301. I'm with you, madfloridian.

But you knew that.

I'm just an old white guy. I must be a racist conservative, lol.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #284)

Sat Jun 7, 2014, 01:42 PM

305. Agreed

Wow - ageism on DU. I thought the folks here were above such crap.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #41)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 10:37 PM

84. Well well, one juror agreed that "Yes, old white men in the way of progress. Exactly that."

Okayyy

I am not a man, but I am white, and I guess I am old. Wonder if old white women stand in the way of progress as well???

Inquiring minds.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #84)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 10:58 PM

96. Did you really alert my post? :(

Tisk, tisk, tisk!

I was typing up a detailed answer to your inquiry and i took my time a bit so that you would get to see the world from my pov. Patience is a virtue. I have lots.

Can i see it then since you did the do? The results of the alert?

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Response to bravenak (Reply #96)

Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:00 PM

99. I think you get a copy.

Spread the love!Spread the love!Spread the love!Spread the love!Spread the love!Spread the love!Spread the love!Spread the love!Spread the love!Spread the love!Spread the love!Spread the love!Spread the love!Spread the love!Spread the love!Spread the love!Spread the love!Spread the love!Spread the love!Spread the love!Spread the love!Spread the love!