The community that had Zimmerman as a crime watch program captain could end up paying for this

They never go to jail. Almost never get fired. Get jobs elsewhere if they do.

And the taxpayer pays and pays and pays.


(oh and only 35% goes to the plaintiff.)

it will come from just 200 home owners.

I suppose in the long term it doesn't.

More fallow overpriced property in Florida not being kept up and slowly rotting.

he self-appointed?

Wouldn't that make a difference.

But that be the extent of it.

I live in one, at times no longer by choice. HOA boards are generally speaking pretty clueless.

Glad I don't live in a community with one.

I used to cover local community townhalls and neighborhood HOAs for a small newspaper...Most of the ordinances they dream up are usually a direct violation of city/state/civil rights law, but neighborhoods take it because they don't know any better, or too afraid to challenge the iron fist HOA president

In civil court.

I'm reposting this from another thread.

It took some searching but here's some of what came up. There's more out there.







He even had little cards that were handed out at the neighborhood meetings

and went door introducing himself and distributing them.

I don't have a link but I remember it from a video with a neighbor who was interviewed and said the first time they saw Zimmerman was when he came to the door to introduce himself and hand them his card.

I just found this from an NPR article about








Oh goodie, this is from the September 2012 Homeowners Association newsletter itself



The same newsletter confirms that Wendy Dorival who confirmed Zimmerman as the watch captain was the SPD Community Volunteer Coordinator. This is a little lower down under "Community News"



Then we have this too where the police downplayed it to *member* instead of *captain*. I don't know how intentional that was but since they're in full defensive cover-up mode, it wouldn't surprise me.



The HOA's February newsletter doesn't mention either Zimmerman or the tragedy.

the Home owners association. Not Neighborhood Watch. Youre not showing that GZ was an actual member of the http://nnwi.org/ or the state org. NNWI apparently does not allow its members to carry a gun, and advises members to not follow people.

Our Participants Handbook states, "Always remember that your responsibility is to report crime. Do not take any risks to prevent a crime or try to make an arrest. The responsibility for apprehending criminals belongs to the police/sheriff."

Neighborhood Watch participants act as additional eyes and ears for law enforcement.
They do not take the law into their own hands.
http://nnwi.org/

http://www.examiner.com/grassroots-politics-in-chicago/george-zimmerman-violated-the-rules-of-neighborhood-watch-by-concealing-a-weapon

that was my whole point. Where you're trying to take it instead is funny.

Nice playing with ya.

the board member are idiots.

For instance - "call our captain, George Zimmerman" They should have said "the", not "our".

And every time they spoke about or wrote about the Neighborhood Watch they should have included this disclaimer -

The Neighborhood Watch group is not under the supervision of the Board of Directors of the Twin Lakes Townhomes Association and is not an official function of the Association. It is a group of community occupants that have organized among themselves. Any list serve or website the watch group uses is also not a part of, or the responsibility of, the Twin Lakes Townhomes Association.

(1) They published the info regarding the neighborhood watch contact (Zimmerman) in their official newsletter

(2) Even if he basically "self-appointed" the Board should have notified him in writing in very strong language to stand down.

I deal with a condo board that represents 1500 town houses. They would never, ever have anyone acting as security that wasn't working for a company that is insured and hires only trained people with full background checks. Even then they cannot carry guns. In fact moonlighting law enforcement have to leave their guns at home when they do this kind of work.
These folks have left themselves open for multiple law suits and the board is in a load of trouble.

Never have anybody "working" in any official capacity that isn't licensed and insured.

... and would NEVER endorse or accommodate a self-indulged wannabe cop patrolling around MY neighborhood. Nothing but the most restrained approach would be entertained, COMPLETELY in accordance with the national Neighborhood Watch organization. It just SCREAMS liability to even the most deaf HOA.

There are early news articles about this case that quote the secretary of the HOA as saying that George Zimmerman had their support because he had been responsible for preventing crime and apprehending criminals.

Also, we've got all the interviews with Zimmerman's vigilante buddy, the wife beater Taafe. He also said a lot of incriminating things about how the HOA fully supported their efforts.

And there's yet another news report that states that the chief of police himself was present at an HOA meeting in early February in which at least one resident complained of being harassed by Zimmerman's racial profiling. That resident was "escorted from the meeting" because he caused a disturbance.

It sounds like this HOA was very happy to have unpaid vigilantes patrolling their neighborhood with guns and harassing black residents. I imagine that the HOA is shredding documents like mad but most of these communications were probably via email and they are there forever. All Trayvon's family has to do is get the emails from the carrier.

I wonder if any of those board members were smart enough to buy a personal umbrella policy. I doubt it - haters never get it.

I wonder how many HOAs are reviewing their behavior and actions. Probably very few. As you say, haters don't get it.

Hi Durham

...and lots of Neighborhood Watch programs do have "captains" or community representatives that are the "lead contact" for community and police. We have one in our neighborhood. I am guessing other people do too. The Watch programs have scheduled meetings with the PD.

They are, or course, advised never to pursue, confront, or interact with a suspicious person. Use the non-emergency police number and report it. I don't see anything inherently wrong with your point number 1. These organizations are (at least in our case) fully known to police, and so are the contacts. We have meetings with the police a couple times a year.

I think there would be a huge difference if the newsletter said "the Captain is responsible for patrolling and confronting all suspicious activity within the community". I am assuming the newsletter didn't say that.

Why am I writing this? It's certainly not out of concern for Zimmerman. As our neighborhood has become less safe in the last few years (budget cuts have reduced patrols, and a vey high level city official moved from across the street), the neighborhood watches have become very important where I live. We actually just had a break in rapist caught because a year ago, at the recommendation of the police, a neighbor installed some outside security cameras. Guy was caught a few days later. My concern is - as budget cuts decimate police departments - without the Watch programs - you are likely to have MORE vigilantism rather than less. Watch programs were never intended to act as a substitute for police - as proactive eyes on a particular area.

If the HOA acted in anyway to "deputize" Zimmerman, there would be an issue. In fact - the biggest issues here (in addition to Zimmerman) are the police (chief) and DA and what seems to be a good ole boy fiefdom.

I completely agree with point number 2.

Thanks for listening

He is a renter. Only property owners should be allowed to hold positions that can expose the HOA to liability.

I think it would be the height of irony if they had to share in the expense of defending the watch program.

In any case - a "gated community" is not always a bunch of rich people sealing themselves off from the riff raff. It could be middle class people in middle class homes with a watch program and no real "gates". Not sure of the specifics of this community, but my sense is that not all people who live in "gated communities" are "assholes".

I'm not aware of whether she owned or rented. Many units in such complexes are rented out.

also, as I had been wondering myself.

He and his father were in the home of a "family friend" (i.e. the father's girlfriend) watching an NBA All-star game when Trayvon went out for Skittles and iced tea.

So apparently the place wasn't "all white" and nobody should have been shocked.

I just wish Trayvon could have had the chance to tell Zimmerman before this all happened that he was visiting that lady's home with his dad.

Nothing more dangerous (think "loose cannon") than a coward with a gun, out to "prove" something.

However ... it's far more about the institutionalized racism than it is about Zimmerman -- an attitude that even infected the Sanford PD and made the homicide of a black male teenager inconsequential. Literally.

I tried to post the photo but it doesn't work. Follow this link to see the photo of the gate at the Retreat at Twin Lakes:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/28/opinion/burton-florida-gates/index.html

appointed or self appointed.

Our local hoa is average in the level of cluelessness.

Just imagine...

hopefully the best witnesses to the facts are tenants and not owners.

"The September edition of the community's newsletter stated: "To receive Neighborhood Watch updates, safety tips and be noticed of any suspicious activity within your community, call George Zimmerman." It included his phone number, which has since been disconnected."

The only chance the Association had to get out of this mess was the ability to say they knew nothing about Zimmerman's activities and he was acting on his own. Given the Association published the above info in their newsletter they are in deep deep shit.

and it will bankrupt the development and it's board members. but....had he been charged that evening w/ 2nd degree murder, the HOA wouldn't have to defend it's naive decision.

The Retreat at Twin Lakes was built at the height of the real estate bubble. Units sold for a quarter million and up. Now, there are lots of listings for bank-owned units selling for pennies on the dollar. The housing crash hit Florida hard. Lots of fraudulent loans for over priced real estate slapped up in fields. Interesting that George Zimmerman himself was employed by one of those real estate finance companies as an underwriter - a position for which he seems unqualified, not having a college degree or any experience in that profession.

I wonder if his father is involved in the real estate scams in Florida.

it is evidence.

It took awhile for the info about the Association's endorsement of Zimmerman's activity to bubble up and I have been waiting to see if the Board had fully or partially sanctioned his activities knowing that if they had it would mean a giant liability for all the owners in the complex.

The board should have stopped Zimmerman at the very beginning.

as a whole new way to look at this murder. Keep posting. Your posts are awesome.

If you own a home/unit in a shared-interest community you must:

(1) Read and understand the Governing Documents of your Association: Articles of Incorporation, Declaration, By-Laws.

(2) Request a list of any Rules and Regulations that the Board or Association has passed over the lifetime of the Association. Make certain they were passed in a legal fashion.

(3) Attend the annual and/or special meetings and participate in the election of your Board members.

(4) Monitor Board decisions (request copies of minutes or attend the board meetings as an observer) to confirm for yourself that they are making wise decisions (and non-decisions).

(5) Make certain the Association/Board is limiting their scope of responsibility and decision making for the community to just those tasks designated in the Governing Documents.

(6) Be certain the Board members understand how to manage risk of the required tasks and, more importantly, that they are not running off the path and taking all the unit owners toward greater liability and exposure.

(7) Satisfy yourself that the insurance coverage for the Association actually covers the risks involved and that insurance coverage is re-evaluated before new functions are added.

(8) Ask questions. Get involved.

Board members have no special training and for the most part have no clue what they are doing. They are just your neighbors and have no expertise. The property manager and attorneys can provide good advice but the Board is not required to accept it.

as opposed to he was acting in a neighborhood watch role. Let's the powers that be make sure that his "witenesses" won't get pissed off at him if the thought of a lawsuit means increased dues or whatever from the homeowners.

brother during his interview with Piers Morgan. That GZ was on his way to Target.

The father, I believe said, the grocery store.

He was proven to be unstable by his record, which they should have been checked.

That he weaseled out of the charges means nothing when you're permitting someone to patrol armed.

The incidents were not job related, and he had no authority to commit what he'd been arrested for before.

A high standard needs to be in effect whenever firearms are in play. Zimmermann did not demonstrate the emotional maturity to carry a weapon. Period. I wouldn't have trusted him to walk a dog.

The community must take responsibility for not managing their security. And a few other people need to be held accountable for letting him carry a gun.

for what happened.

I keep hearing that he was "self-appointed" and that he was not a member of an official neighborhood watch. If that's true, how can other residents be held responsible for this?

Even if he was official, can the other residents really be held responsible for his actions, especially since he was violating neighborhood watch rules by carrying a gun and following the supposed suspect?

Also, wouldn't allowing such a lawsuit be bad public policy? You end up with potential witnesses against Zimmerman facing financial penalties if Zimmerman is convicted. This would cause pressure on the witnesses not to testify.

I'm actually a little suspicious of the article because of this. Look at the obviously coordinated campaign to smear Trayvon Martin. Couldn't the same forces be behind this article, intending to frighten potential witnesses?

but I know it is still a little foggy for the best informed at the moment.

It just seems unjust to threaten potential witnesses with the possibility of a lawsuit if Zimmerman is convicted.

Witnesses shouldn't have anything to gain or lose from testifying truthfully.

the Association is liable for Zimmerman's activities and will be sued regardless.

It does not matter if Zimmerman was part of a neighborhood watch program or had taken any classes or whatever - the Association should have never sponsored/promoted/encouraged/allowed his activities.

Given that the elected Board of Directors endorsed his actions they placed the entire community in the liability line. The Board's only directive to the unit owners should have been "Call 911" if you see a problem.

suddenly have to consider that they may be financially penalized if Zimmerman is convicted. That gives them a financial incentive not to testify. That just doesn't sound right to me.

Remind me never to purchase a home that falls under a HOA.

hopefully the best witnesses to the facts are tenants, not homeowners.

Also, even if some of the witnesses are owners they are already on record so it is too late to change their stories.

What a mess.

situation is whether there's a CIVIL CASE filed and secondly, whether or not the witnesses are tenants vs owners. As it applies to pwning a home in an HOA, I made a point to actively A.V.O.I.D. HOA's. Can't stand them.

They'd be suing based on the HOA's negligence in putting Zimmerman into this pseudo-cop role on behalf of the HOA. The family doesn't need Zimmerman convicted to prove negligence. It helps, but isn't necessary.

the HOA is as responsible as they are for anything else on the grounds.

out of those assholes. This is the problem in the US, SYG gun laws are made for two reasons...so you can act upon your prejudice or choose your precious stuff over life.

... but if Zimmerman was not an official "Neighborhood Watchman" for the community, then whatever actions they took, if any, might tend to mitigate their liability. If they did nothing, they are screwed. HOA's will often not hesitate to cite and fine people for failing to cut their grass, not putting away their trash cans, unapproved color of the shutters, etc. Seems if they were not satisfied with Zimmerman, they could have smacked him with a Cease and Desist Letter.

The HOA called Zimmerman their "Neighborhood Watch Captain" in the HOA newsletter.

If they wait until there's a charge against Zimmerman, the price goes up.

If Zimmerman is convicted, the price goes higher still.

HOA probably wants to settle now for less, but the family, I hope, hangs on until sentence is pronounced to maximize the effect.

They endorsed Zimmerman and his 'neighborhood watch" activities without any supervision, apparently. It seems like they would want criminal prosecution to shift the responsibility onto Zimmerman as much as possible to limit their exposure at this point. They are probably already taking a beating on their property values.

and if true, and they ignored that, they are even more liable.

are even more liable because they complained to the HOA?

Ok, there's a certain logic there ...

The Board is.

so they'll have to pass the expense to the homeowners, ie, the complainers.

I don't think race has been mentioned thus your post is off point.

Looks like you joined DU today to post in Zimmerman threads.

love your name troll...

murderer to patrol the area.

As far as I know.

Is it an off-duty police officer?
Is it a rent-a-wantabecop?
Are they armed?
Is the association insurance properly written to cover this liability?
Did the board receive legal advice before taking this step?
Do you need an umbrella policy added to your homeowners insurance policy and will it cover you in this situation?

He's an actual police officer that is armed.

carries a hefty liability insurance policy.

If the officers of the HOA behaved "recklessly" and exposed the HOA to liability, the insurance policy may not apply.

I have a house which was rented out to a niece of my wife's. Her and her boyfriend left for another state for supposedly five days and they turned the heat off when they left without telling us that. Later in the month (December), they called and said they weren't returning and then told us the heat was off. The kitchen was wrecked because the water lines had froze and burst.

For weeks, the insurance company debated on covering the damages because the heat had been shut off on purpose and this wasn't an accident. In the end, they paid.

And given this high profile matter you can bet that the underwriters are (if it is not already included in the policy fine print) quickly writing up EXCLUSIONS to the master policies for neighborhood watching, vigilante actions, and community commandos.

They will likely also exclude any committee decisions if the members are not selected/elected by the community as a whole and if their decisions are not approved by the board.

That is what I would do.

only covers the board of directors, and employees of the HOA (like maintenence staff)... not the HOA as a whole. I agree that a suit against the HOA for not properly vetting and supervising Zimmerman will probably be succesful. Such a judgement against the homeowners could likely exceed the equity they have in their homes.