So help me here - Will States Rights be trumped by the NRA's

[malaise]

right to carry concealed weapons into any state?
Did I just hear (on Up with Chris Hayes) that the House passed this offensive bill?
So people will now be forced to face death from any crazy who feels threatened or wants to 'kill liberals' so that the NRA can sell more guns - commerce clause anyone?

[Ilsa]

1. Do you remember how far into the show?

I just tuned in, but I can "rewind" the show.
Thank you

[malaise]

4. Somewhere between the first and second set of commercials

[Ilsa]

13. Here is one link:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/16/house-set-to-vote-on-concealed-gun-law/

[malaise]

15. Thi is so fugging crazy

that my head spins

[hack89]

2. Concealed carry permit reciprocity is common now

many states have already have agreements to honor each others concealed carry permits.

You are several decades behind the times.

Here is an interactive map that shows all the different agreements.

http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html

[malaise]

5. There is now an attempt to make this a federal law

even when there is opposition in some states.

[hack89]

8. States oppose many things - abortion, marriage equality, etc

so state opposition, in and of itself, is not a particularly strong argument.

I have no strong feelings about this law one way or the other - I just think that since reciprocity is common and has been common for a long time, that it is hard to argue that this represents some potential harm to society. If it was, we would have seen it by now.

[baldguy]

7. Yes, yes. We all know that over the last 30 yrs the RW has had a troubling impact

on all aspects of law & govt - including the influence of the fascist NRA on our gun laws.

The question: What do we do about it?

[hack89]

9. And we all know that over the past 20 years there have been historic declines in gun violence

so explain to me the actual harm done by the NRA. With gun violence at a 50 year low, you have never been safer.

[baldguy]

12. If there's no threat of gun violence, ther's no reason for people to carry guns.

You can't have it both ways.

[hack89]

14. If there is no threat to you, then there is no reason to restrict concealed carry.

You can't have it both ways.

[baldguy]

17. Carrying a gun is a threat. There's no way getting around that fact.

The primary purpose of carrying a gun is TO BE THREATENING.

[hack89]

18. Not when it is concealed.

how can you be threatened by something you can't see? Everyday you interact with people that unknown to you are carrying guns. How do you decide when to feel threatened?

[baldguy]

20. If it's concealed, then it's nothing but a security blanket

For overly-frightened people who feel threatened by everything around them. These are precisely the kind of people who should not have guns.

[hack89]

21. Why should you care?

if you are not aware of the gun and the owner does not represent a threat to you then it is none of your business.

You show me that concealed carry holders represent a real threat to you and we can talk - right now you have nothing but your emotions and fear. Do you have any hard facts?

[baldguy]

28. Show proof that concealed carry is solely responsible for the reduction in gun violence -

Especially is places where concealed carry is not allowed - and not changes in demographics, community policing initiatives, changes in economics and a dozen other factors.

The fact is you can't, because it doesn't. In areas where gun violence is still an issues, the guns used come from jurisdictions where guns are easy to obtain. This illicit trade is built on fear.

The RW through the NRA and the GOP does nothing but foster fear when they promote legal abominations like concealed carry laws and Stand Your Ground laws - and their propaganda produces gun nut heroes like George Zimmerman.

[hack89]

30. If you cannot show that an increase in concealed carry led to more gun deaths

then there is no reason to ban concealed carry.

You are the one that wants to ban concealed carry. You are the one that has to prove you have more than just your personal fears and prejudices.

The illicit trade in guns is built on drugs. Or is it pure coincidence that drug gangs and a flourishing trade in illicit drugs go hand in hand with high rates of gun violence?

Why don't you take care of the criminals first - you can tackle the most violent segment of our society while leaving the law abiding people alone.

[TheCowsCameHome]

3. I don't know, but I hope not.

There will never be enough guns floating around to satisfy that wacko outfit.

[malaise]

6. Follow the money

It's about selling guns

[TheCowsCameHome]

10. And

fear.

The NRA has it down to an art form.

[malaise]

11. Well promoting fear is the best ad to sell the guns

[KansDem]

16. The "Less-Government Conservatives" will always trump state rights...

...when their interests are at stake.

"Bush v. Gore" comes to mind...

[badtoworse]

19. Would you be OK with your other civil rights being denied in another state?

You have freedom of speech in your home state, but not in a neighboring state? How about allowing another state to seize your car because they wanted it? Why should 2nd Amendment rights be an exception?

[malaise]

22. Carrying guns is a civil right?

What about the quintessence of civil rights - the right to fugging life.
What happens when someone's daddy prevents the felony charge and the crazy son kills someone while thinking his name was Rambo?

[badtoworse]

25. ...the right to keep and BEAR arms.

Bear means to carry.

[malaise]

26. It is not a civil right n/t

[hack89]

32. So what kind of rights does the Bill of Rights contain?

are none of them civil rights? Or all but one?

[badtoworse]

35. Read the Heller decision and get back to us.

The SCOTUS wrote that the 2nd Amendment protects an individual right. What kind of a right do you think they were referring to?

[Hugabear]

24. How is CCW a "civil right"

If it were a "civil right", then EVERY state would have to allow CCW.

The Constitution merely addresses ownership of firearms. It doesn't say that you have the right to take it wherever the hell you want, concealed from everyone's sight.

[badtoworse]

27. I'll give concealed. Would you prefer open carry?

Most states are"shall issue" meaning that the onus is on the state to demonstrate why you should be denied a permit to carry. I am confident that all states will eventually be forced into that by the courts.

[krispos42]

23. Wow, panic much?

I know it's hip to portray all concealed-carriers as KKK TeaBaggers with itchy trigger fingers and a ready-to-burn cross in their fanny packs, but please.

The gun-carrying people to fear are the career criminals with illegal guns, the ones that kill several thousand a year.

Concealed-carry permitees have much better criminal records than the members of Mayors Against Illegal Guns.


This surfaces because there are a dozen or so states that absolutely refuse to recognize a permit from any other state, regardless of the standards used to issue the permit

[Logical]

29. I am pro-gun and have a CC license and think this law....

Is stupid! States should be able to have their own unless on this.
Some states issue permits with no need to ever have shot a gun.
Really stupid!

[Ilsa]

34. Exactly. There needs to be a standard set

that includes training, safety, and recertifying.

[onehandle]

31. Yes. nt

[slackmaster]

33. States don't have rights. States have powers. Only people have rights.