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Thu Mar 29, 2012, 07:29 PM

Jesus... Fucking... Christ !!! - 'School Bans Disabled Girl From Using Walker' - MSNBC

School Bans Disabled Girl From Using Walker
By Linda Carroll - MSNBC
3/29/12



<snip>

Kristi Roberts was stunned when school officials insisted that her disabled 5-year-old daughter switch to a wheelchair from the walker she’d been using for the previous two years. Little LaKay had battled cerebral palsy and epilepsy since she was born, and Kristi had worked hard to get her little girl up out of the wheel chair and walking – she couldn’t believe that the school was now taking away their hard-earned progress.

Kristi explained her position to NBC’s Janet Shamlian.

“If she can walk now, please let her walk,” Kristi said. “Don’t strap her in a wheelchair. We’ve worked so hard. She has worked so hard.”

When Kristi tried to make her case, officials from the New Caney Independent School District weren’t moved. They insisted that because LaKay had fallen down in the school’s parking lot – when she was with her mom – it wasn’t safe for the little girl to use a walker.

The Texas mom wasn’t going to take no for an answer. She recorded a conversation with a school official (with his knowledge) and then posted the conversation on YouTube for the world to hear:

“Basically she can’t use the walker because we don’t believe it’s safe,” the school official explained on the tape.

When Kristi pushed for an explanation, the official got huffy and responded derisively, “We’re gonna not do what the mother wants us to do – be sure to get this on tape.”

Kristi was astounded. “I am a parent and you are an employee that’s supposed to be an advocate for this child,” she said. “And from day one, you have not.”

The school official wasn’t budging.




<snip>

Link: http://moms.today.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/29/10910817-school-bans-disabled-girl-from-using-walker







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Reply Jesus... Fucking... Christ !!! - 'School Bans Disabled Girl From Using Walker' - MSNBC (Original post)
WillyT Mar 2012 OP
Blue_Tires Mar 2012 #1
KamaAina Mar 2012 #5
joeybee12 Mar 2012 #13
anti-alec Mar 2012 #19
WillyT Mar 2012 #28
d_r Mar 2012 #35
liberalhistorian Mar 2012 #61
loyalsister Mar 2012 #109
Yo_Mama Mar 2012 #120
zbdent Mar 2012 #12
Confusious Mar 2012 #20
LineReply .
baldguy Mar 2012 #2
KamaAina Mar 2012 #3
MichiganVote Mar 2012 #9
KamaAina Mar 2012 #17
MichiganVote Mar 2012 #23
LWolf Mar 2012 #37
Confusious Mar 2012 #21
MichiganVote Mar 2012 #26
Confusious Mar 2012 #32
phylny Mar 2012 #33
SATIRical Mar 2012 #38
phylny Mar 2012 #86
SATIRical Mar 2012 #92
phylny Mar 2012 #93
SATIRical Mar 2012 #96
phylny Mar 2012 #105
unapatriciated Mar 2012 #115
Confusious Mar 2012 #41
phylny Mar 2012 #87
unapatriciated Mar 2012 #118
MichiganVote Mar 2012 #42
Confusious Mar 2012 #60
MichiganVote Mar 2012 #63
Confusious Mar 2012 #67
MichiganVote Mar 2012 #70
Confusious Mar 2012 #73
MichiganVote Mar 2012 #116
jwirr Mar 2012 #77
jwirr Mar 2012 #76
jillan Mar 2012 #48
MichiganVote Mar 2012 #53
Confusious Mar 2012 #59
KamaAina Mar 2012 #56
Confusious Mar 2012 #58
MichiganVote Mar 2012 #66
KamaAina Mar 2012 #101
proud2BlibKansan Mar 2012 #107
MichiganVote Mar 2012 #111
proud2BlibKansan Mar 2012 #112
MichiganVote Mar 2012 #117
HiPointDem Mar 2012 #85
_ed_ Mar 2012 #91
KamaAina Mar 2012 #102
_ed_ Apr 2012 #122
KamaAina Apr 2012 #123
_ed_ Apr 2012 #121
jwirr Mar 2012 #75
loyalsister Mar 2012 #81
jwirr Mar 2012 #97
Honeycombe8 Mar 2012 #30
MichiganVote Mar 2012 #43
jwirr Mar 2012 #78
jillan Mar 2012 #50
JCMach1 Mar 2012 #84
KamaAina Mar 2012 #103
JCMach1 Mar 2012 #108
madaboutharry Mar 2012 #4
KamaAina Mar 2012 #7
Confusious Mar 2012 #22
KamaAina Mar 2012 #57
Quantess Mar 2012 #88
loyalsister Mar 2012 #25
gkhouston Mar 2012 #6
nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #8
loyalsister Mar 2012 #27
jwirr Mar 2012 #79
loyalsister Mar 2012 #82
jwirr Mar 2012 #99
annabanana Mar 2012 #10
RebelOne Mar 2012 #11
politicasista Mar 2012 #14
Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #15
cynatnite Mar 2012 #16
Quantess Mar 2012 #89
MadHound Mar 2012 #18
Hoyt Mar 2012 #24
happyslug Mar 2012 #36
MichiganVote Mar 2012 #54
AverageJoe90 Mar 2012 #29
MichiganVote Mar 2012 #44
Odin2005 Mar 2012 #31
Liberal_in_LA Mar 2012 #34
jillan Mar 2012 #39
MichiganVote Mar 2012 #46
Canuckistanian Mar 2012 #40
tsuki Mar 2012 #45
MichiganVote Mar 2012 #47
tsuki Mar 2012 #49
MichiganVote Mar 2012 #51
tsuki Mar 2012 #64
MichiganVote Mar 2012 #69
lonestarnot Mar 2012 #52
MichiganVote Mar 2012 #55
lonestarnot Mar 2012 #62
MichiganVote Mar 2012 #68
lonestarnot Mar 2012 #72
ZombieHorde Mar 2012 #65
MichiganVote Mar 2012 #71
ZombieHorde Mar 2012 #80
jwirr Mar 2012 #74
Egalitarian Thug Mar 2012 #83
Taitertots Mar 2012 #90
Rex Mar 2012 #94
phylny Mar 2012 #95
Taitertots Mar 2012 #98
phylny Mar 2012 #106
Catbird Mar 2012 #100
KamaAina Mar 2012 #104
Initech Mar 2012 #110
BlueIris Mar 2012 #113
varelse Mar 2012 #114
proud2BlibKansan Mar 2012 #119

Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 07:31 PM

1. i guess the school is being too lawsuit-wary

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #1)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 07:32 PM

5. I've got a surprise for them

they're gonna get sued under both the ADA and IDEA. Count on it.

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #5)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 07:45 PM

13. Exactly...if they've got a lawyer, their lawyer is an idiot.

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #5)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 07:53 PM

19. From a disability POV.

 

The school is dead wrong in this.

If they are receiving federal/state money (who receives federal money), they they have to comply with the ADA laws.

If LaKay is happy with her walker, and wants to use it - by all means, let her! She is comfortable with her choice.

Do NOT force her to sit on a wheelchair because it's "convenient" to the school - kids comes first, not the school.

No wonder why the school will lose a LOT more they can afford by getting a lawsuit, and a simple accomodation request is followed would have saved the school and its district millions of wasted taxpayer dollars.

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Response to anti-alec (Reply #19)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 08:04 PM

28. + 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!!




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Response to anti-alec (Reply #19)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 09:11 PM

35. more than ADA

IDEA the school has to allow parental input in the IEP. They are being antagonistic.

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #5)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 11:46 PM

61. That's definitely true and their legal counsel should

have advised them of that, especially regarding IDEA requirements, which particularly apply here. HOWEVER, they also have a point. If the child does fall while on school property, they are liable for that and they have no guarantee that they will not be sued for it. So they're kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place.

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Response to liberalhistorian (Reply #61)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 05:46 PM

109. only if they aren't ADA compliant

If they are 100% ADA compliant re: architectural barriers they should have nothing to worry about. The personal responsibility for what happens when she leaves her home to enjoy an education in a building that is required by law to be architecturally friendly has been claimed by the girl and her family. Just as with kids who do not have disabilities and don't require architectural accommodations.
If they are afraid that they are not in compliance, there is a whole other can of worms lurking.

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #5)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 10:29 PM

120. Really?

For its part, the New Caney school district argues that it has always had LaKay’s best interests at heart. They say they have not yet received her doctor’s OK for the little girl to use the walker without the leg braces she used to wear.

“The decision was arrived at by this child’s special education team was that the child would be evaluated further and that there would be more information forthcoming from her private physicians and therapists to make sure she was being served safely and appropriately before the use of the walker continued,” said the district’s attorney, Paula Roalson.


Okay, they asked for a medical clearance for the walker to be used without braces. The decision was made by the team, and the final decision is pending based on medical information.

She might be able to use the walker sometimes but then not at others, especially if she is tired or has a mild illness. Apparently she has recently discarded braces, which might be a factor.

The mother's done a superb job, but the school environment does represent some dangers, and the issue of fatigue concerns me too. You don't want her back in the wheelchair, you also don't want her potentially to fall and be trampled, and you don't want her so tired that she doesn't get the full benefit of the classroom experience.

I wouldn't presume the school is being reckless or disregarding the child's welfare. If the school asked for a clearance from the child's primary physician, isn't that reasonable? The video shows a child who isn't always able to use the walker that well.

Gosh that kid is cute!

I just don't think it is unreasonable for the school to ask for a medical opinion. Schools ask for such opinions all the time. Why should there be any delay in getting it?

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #1)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 07:44 PM

12. Mrs. ZBDent has CP, and her boss "suggested" she switch from the canes she used

all the time to a power wheelchair (which we had bought with our own money at a yard sale, not medically required).

He didn't exactly come out and say that he was afraid she'd fall and have workman's comp issues, but we knew why ...

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Response to zbdent (Reply #12)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 07:54 PM

20. You can kind of blame them


But it's also society and how sue happy they are.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 07:31 PM

2. .

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 07:31 PM

3. News flash: The ADA applies to schools

as does IDEA, the Indioviduals with Disabilities Education Act. Both give LaKay the right to accommodations she needs to attend school just like any other child, in this case, a walker.

Most public schools are in deep, deep denial when it comes to this issue. Never mind that IDEA has been the law of the land since the '70s.

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #3)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 07:38 PM

9. "Most" public schools? Now how do you really know that?

And before you get mad, let me explain how this should go.

Step 1. This school should recognize that kids w/o walkers fall sometimes

Step 2. This school should recognize that kids in wheelchairs also fall sometimes

Step 3. Two things are needed: Physician's recommendations and school based PT recommendations

Step 4. Kid uses the walker in the recommended areas and a wheelchair in the recommended areas.

How do I know this? Cuz' we just did this same process in my public school and guess what? No muss, no fuss. Parent, child, school, all are fine.

This is likely driven by an administrator who doesn't know or care to involve the child's school based team. So before you label "most" public schools as being in denial, think of some other possible reasons for this.

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Response to MichiganVote (Reply #9)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 07:51 PM

17. I've been in the field for a decade or so

hopefully things are different in Michigan, but in California and especially Hawai'i, the bad schools outnumber the good ones.

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #17)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 07:58 PM

23. And I will trust that your experience is sad. But really, this is not

and never should be about "schools". This is about a bad call by an administrator. And I've seen many of those, usually out of ignorance, sometimes out of bias.

I work with a child who uses this particular walker. We do provide an adult guide when he is moving around. But its not possible to prevent falls. It is possible to protect against them and that is what is done. Kids with these walkers tend to want to use it to run or move with the walker as fast as they can. They are kids afterall and they think its fun. For that reason could be the child needs some limits too but that's what schools are for!

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #17)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 09:48 PM

37. I've been "in the field" almost 3 decades,

in CA and OR, have taught in large and small districts and schools, and didn't find any "bad schools."

A few bad administrators at the site level. More bad administrators at the district level. Why? Because bad admins often get booted out of schools into the D.O. to get them away from students.

Admins aren't schools. Thankfully, ALL the admins, good, bad, and in-between, that I have worked for over the decades complied with the law.

In CA, I did find districts to be very concerned about law suits. They were always worried about the bottom line with legal insurance premiums, and were pretty restrictive in what they'd allow, or not.

That's not exactly a surprise in the world of perpetual budget cuts.

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #3)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 07:56 PM

21. How does a wheelchair not allow her to attend?


I don't want this mother to have to give up her progress, but the ADA is about access, not the means.

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Response to Confusious (Reply #21)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 08:02 PM

26. Actually it can mean that she would not have the access or appropriate means

to take part in PE classes--with appropriate accommodation. And that is a subject area for her personal IEP. Unless the school has prepared some verification (medical, PT) of her needs, they are open to a hearing for not providing the child's free and appropriate public education (FAPE). Hearings are expensive. Rational discussion with a parent and medical verification is generally cheap and effective.

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Response to MichiganVote (Reply #26)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 08:19 PM

32. Really? a PE class?

I remember dodge ball, swimming, climbing ropes.

How is someone who can't walk without a walker suppose to do that?

Sounds like you've got a lawsuit looking for a cause there.

I feel sorry for the girl, but I also understand the schools position, which you just justified by giving and example of an unreasonable lawsuit.

Reasonable is wheelchair access. unreasonable is your example.

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Response to Confusious (Reply #32)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 08:28 PM

33. Adaptive P.E. is provided for many children with disabilities.

She wouldn't necessarily play dodge ball or climb ropes, but she's a lot more mobile with a walker than she would be with a chair. In addition, her muscles would likely become weaker if she was placed in a chair, hindering any future progress.

I'm not a PT, but I'm a ST who works with lots of kids with disabilities, and I have been in lots of IEP meetings. The administrator who we heard on the tape is going to lead himself and his school district into some deep doo doo.

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Response to phylny (Reply #33)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 10:08 PM

38. Really?

 

I've seen folks be far more mobile and move faster in a wheelchair than I've ever seen from someone with a walker.

That being said, I still side with the girl.

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Response to SATIRical (Reply #38)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 07:17 AM

86. Reallly.

In a wheelchair, either she's only using her arms if she's propelling herself, or she's using no muscles at all, except for those that keep her upright in the core of her body.

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Response to phylny (Reply #86)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 11:36 AM

92. So?

 

That doesn't make her more mobile.

Am I more mobile on a motorcycle or on foot? On foot, I use more muscle power but that does not make me more mobile.

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Response to SATIRical (Reply #92)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 11:47 AM

93. So, we're talking about the overall development of a child, not what's fastest in the short-term.

Educators and especially her parents, doctors, and therapists need to be concerned about her total development. Part of that development is working to help her achieve to the best of her potential, cognitively, physically, and emotionally. She might be faster in a chair, but she could be sacrificing future mobility, strength, and her overall musculoskeletal development may be compromised. You may be faster and arguably more mobile on a motorcycle, but if you are child in perpetual growth, if your PT and physician have prescribed a walker, then it's in the child's best interest to follow the plan of care, unless you're a school system that can't be bothered.

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Response to phylny (Reply #93)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 12:29 PM

96. Then why did you claim " she's a lot more mobile with a walker than she would be with a chair"?

 

In general I agree with the overall development, but you have to also consider the academic side. If she is exhausted from using the walker to go from class to class, or it takes a long time so she misses some of each class, then that hurts her overall.

They need to look at the entire big picture. Remember, she can get the physical part after hours at home.

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Response to SATIRical (Reply #96)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 05:15 PM

105. Because in a PE class that required some sort of physical movement, she would.

The context of the part of my statement you refer to is, "She wouldn't necessarily play dodge ball or climb ropes, but she's a lot more mobile with a walker than she would be with a chair."

I would rather leave the decision of her exhaustion or lack of it to the Physical Therapist, her special educator, and her physician. If they restrict her, that's one thing. If the school is restricting her in case she falls, that's another.

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Response to SATIRical (Reply #96)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 09:32 PM

115. When it comes to physical therapy, it's ongoing not just after hours.

In the early 90's my son was diagnosed with Dermatomyositis and lost a lot of muscles during the first year of his illness. He was in physical therapy from eight in the morning till five in the evening the first three months (after the disease was under control). After he was released from Childrens LA he had 3 to 5 hours of physical therapy spread out during the day. He was in a wheel chair part of the time and a walker for two years. You can not maintain or progress with just a few hours after school when you have an ongoing disease, pt need to be done through out the day. It is very important to get them out of the wheelchair and into a walker for the majority of the day in order to maintain muscle strength.

As far as exhaustion it is something children with long term disabling illnesses learn to deal. The big picture IS maintaining muscle strength, without it they would not be able to participate in the "academic side".

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Response to phylny (Reply #33)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 10:38 PM

41. Doesn't mean she can't be taken out of the chair


For PE, doesn't mean her mom is going to leave her in a chair 24/7.

What is grade school? 6 hours a day? and her muscles will become weaker?

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Response to Confusious (Reply #41)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 07:20 AM

87. Her bones wouldn't get the pressure of gravity, impact, and movement,

and her muscles, including her core muscles, would be both moving less and "correcting" less.

Plus, you don't have necessarily have PE every day in school.

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Response to Confusious (Reply #41)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 09:42 PM

118. Yes.

When it comes to disease that deals with muscles even an hour or two of non use can cause weakness and risk losing what some had spent months to years regaining.
I went through this same type of argument with my son's school in the early 90's. I had to have a nurse from Children's LA set up an IEP meeting to explain to them how important it was for him to use his walker instead of a wheelchair while at school.

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Response to Confusious (Reply #32)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 10:55 PM

42. Sure. There are many things that the kids with disabilities

can participate in re: PE. An adaptive PE program will enable most children to participate in one or another activity.

Miracles happen everyday. Just have to see good public education to believe it.

And darling, the school in this case is begging for a hearing b/c unless they can establish with medical documentation that the use of the walker is life threatening, a hearing officer will rule against them.

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Response to MichiganVote (Reply #42)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 11:42 PM

60. The school district can require that a student be safe.


Said so yourself.

Says in the article, she's learning how to use the walker.

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Response to Confusious (Reply #60)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 11:48 PM

63. And in the school district this child should already be linked with in school PT

to fall as a result of her progress or as a part of her therapeutic treatment must be shown to be "unsafe".

Good luck with that. Even if she has learned how to use her walker, kids with CP commonly fall. The issue is really to what extent the district has built in protective measures, not whether or when the child will fall.

And THAT is done with the student's IEP. A good team will rely on medical documentation for guidance.

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Response to MichiganVote (Reply #63)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 11:53 PM

67. Sounds like it's been a hard time

From the article.

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Response to Confusious (Reply #67)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 12:01 AM

70. Yup. School bureacracy can be very difficult. Conversely, sometimes parents

assume that if/when their child has a school based disability they are entitled to everything. Not so. But in this case--total overkill by the school administration.

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Response to MichiganVote (Reply #70)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 12:07 AM

73. I meant hard time in teaching her


How to use the walker. But I also agree with your post, and only sort of for the overkill part.

If she can prove that she can walk pretty well with the walker, NP.

If she can't, then she should have to use a wheelchair.

I can also understand why schools do this. An overzealous suing society. They have to protect themselves. I don't like it, I wish it didn't happen, but I understand.

And the guy didn't have to be such a dick about it.

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Response to Confusious (Reply #73)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 09:38 PM

116. Nah. Most of the kids are thrilled to be able to move w/these walkers.

They usually go too fast and abandon caution. They are kids afterall.

Schools are responsible for the safety of children and for the safekeeping of the public's tax dollars. Never an easy balancing act. And when it comes to schools or school personnel, critics abound.

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Response to MichiganVote (Reply #70)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 01:31 AM

77. Or I have also run into parents who expect miracles when there can be no miracle. Still a good

decision can be reached in a IEP screening that includes medical requirements.

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Response to Confusious (Reply #60)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 01:27 AM

76. You are arguing against a whole lot more people than just this school when you want people to

accept your arguements. If they get by with this without following the rules then all of our children are in danger of losing their priviledges. My daughter cannot walk at all and so she has to have a wheelchair but one of the rules is that the client be placed in the least restrictive environment. A wheel chair is more restricting than a walker.

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Response to Confusious (Reply #21)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 11:06 PM

48. The ADA also is a bill of rights for people with disabilities.

Making her use a wheelchair when she does not need one violates her rights in the same way it would violate yours if you were forced to use a wheelchair if you don't need one.

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Response to jillan (Reply #48)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 11:22 PM

53. In this case, IDEA and the rights that she has under that law, which is nearly

identical to the ADA is applicable. And frankly, sometimes the kids who use the open front walker with CP or similar supports DO need to use a wheelchair to access their education. The issue is not whether the child fell in the parking lot with mother--it is whether and in what manner she can access her free and appropriate public education.

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Response to jillan (Reply #48)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 11:41 PM

59. She's learning how to use the walker.


Says in the article. Sounds like she might need one.

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Response to Confusious (Reply #21)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 11:36 PM

56. Most schools are not wheelchair-accessible

for starters.

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #56)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 11:40 PM

58. Do you know that this one is not?

First hand knowledge of that?

I remember my grade school. Had a ramps everywhere.

My other one had an elevator for access to the second and third floors.

Both had really wide corridors. ( so does the one my cousin works at, now that I think about it, it's a one story, so no elevators)

That was 35 years ago, so forgive me if I don't believe you.

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #56)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 11:50 PM

66. Uh, that is patently untrue. Federal law requires wheelchair accesibility in public schools.

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Response to MichiganVote (Reply #66)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 04:35 PM

101. Tell it to the schools in Hawai'i

where they still send wheelchair-using students to Jefferson Elementary in Waikiki, because it's the only one that's single-story.

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Response to MichiganVote (Reply #66)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 05:29 PM

107. No they grandfathered in the buildings that aren't accessible

If a district has one building that IS accessible, they are allowed to have others that are not.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #107)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 06:32 PM

111. Not quite.

DOES THE SCHOOL DISTRICT HAVE TO MAKE STRUCTURAL CHANGES TO EXISTING BUILDINGS TO MAKE PROGRAMS ACCESSIBLE?

Public school systems must ensure that programs, services, and activities are accessible to and usable by individuals with disabilities. Ensuring program accessibility is an important aspect of enhancing opportunity for people with disabilities. Both Title II of the Americans with Disabilities Act and Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 prohibit public school systems from denying people with disabilities equal opportunity to participate in programs, services, and activities because school facilities are either inaccessible to them or unusable by them . Both regulations contain two standards to be used in determining whether a covered entity's programs, activities, and services are accessible to individuals with disabilities. One standard deals with new construction and alterations; the other deals with "existing" facilities.

The program accessibility and least restrictive environment requirements of Title II and Section 504 do not conflict. For students with disabilities, school districts must review the students' individual needs and devise programs to meet those needs. Accessibility considerations may not be factored into the determination of whether a student needs a restrictive or non-restrictive placement. Once a particular placement has been agreed to, the school district must ensure that the student has access to the programs that are part of the student's placement. As for providing services at the school nearest a student's home, there is no such explicit requirement in Section 504 or Title II. However, if a school district did adopt a specific policy that students will attend school at their "home" school, but then denied participation to students with disabilities, there might be a violation of the law. (sort of a catch 22)

Although the program accessibility standard is a rigorous one, both the Title II and Section 504 regulations permit flexibility in how the standard can be met. Both structural and nonstructural methods of achieving program accessibility are acceptable.

Although nonstructural methods of achieving program accessibility are acceptable, they should not have the effect of segregating people with disabilities or compromising their dignity and independence. Priority must be given to offering programs or activities in the most integrated setting appropriate .

If no effective nonstructural alternatives can be provided to achieve program accessibility, public school systems must make the necessary structural changes . These changes must conform to new construction and alterations.

Although structural changes to make existing facilities accessible are not required as a matter of course, they must be undertaken if there is no alternative means to achieve program accessibility . Structural changes include such alterations as installing a ramp, widening a doorway, or lowering a toilet.

Structural changes include not only those required to provide access to persons with mobility impairments, but also those required to render the program accessible to persons with other disabilities. For example, people with hearing impairments may require assistive listening systems. The full range of disabilities should be kept in mind as program accessibility is considered.

DOES THE PROGRAM ACCESSIBILITY STANDARD APPLY ONLY TO STUDENTS?

Public school systems must ensure that their programs are accessible to parents, guardians, and members of the public with disabilities as well as to students. This requirement includes all programs, activities, or services that are open to parents or to the public, such as parent-teacher organization meetings, plays, and graduation ceremonies. With respect to existing facilities, school districts may satisfy their obligations to make programs accessible to parents who have disabilities by reassigning their child to a school facility that is accessible.

DOES THE SCHOOL DISTRICT HAVE TO MAKE STRUCTURAL CHANGES TO EXISTING BUILDINGS TO MAKE PROGRAMS ACCESSIBLE?

Although the program accessibility standard is a rigorous one, both the Title II and Section 504 regulations permit flexibility in how the standard can be met. Both structural and nonstructural methods of achieving program accessibility are acceptable.

Although nonstructural methods of achieving program accessibility are acceptable, they should not have the effect of segregating people with disabilities or compromising their dignity and independence. Priority must be given to offering programs or activities in the most integrated setting appropriate .

If no effective nonstructural alternatives can be provided to achieve program accessibility, public school systems must make the necessary structural changes . These changes must conform to new construction and alterations.
Standards.

humancentereddesign.org


CASELAW
It is impermissible for a student to be barred from access to classes and other
activities that regular education peers are provided and which could easily be provided by the school through accommodations, such as a wheelchair or wheelchair accessibility.

For example, a district was required to incur a minimal, nonrecurring expense necessary to make a local school closest to the home of a student who used a wheelchair accessible. The district’s decision to place the student at a middle school which was accessible to wheelchair uses was impermissibly based upon physical accessibility only, rather than the student’s needs. Moreover the expenditure would benefit not only the student but the larger constituency of all wheelchair users as well. San Antonio Indep School Dist., 17 EHLR 1168 (SEA TX 1991).

Several OCR (Office Civil Rights) regulations and opinions have dealt with this issue in the past. The right to access to ALL school activities, including extracurricular activities, is an area in which OCR is very supportive of student rights.

Following are citations to 504 regs, followed by citations to some OCR letters and rulings:

The federal regulations governing Section 504 can be found in Volume 34 of the Code of Federal Regulations (“C.F.R.”).

34 C.F.R. § 104.37 sets forth the requirement that public schools provide students with disabilities an equal opportunity as that available to non-disabled students to participate in non-academic and extracurricular services and activities. This section reads as follows:

§ 104.37 Nonacademic services.

(a) General.

(1) A recipient to which this subpart applies shall provide non-academic and extracurricular services and activities in such manner as is necessary to afford handicapped students an equal opportunity for participation in such services and activities.

(2) Nonacademic and extracurricular services and activities may include counseling services, physical recreational athletics, transportation, health services, recreational activities, special interest groups or clubs sponsored by the recipients, referrals to agencies which provide assistance to handicapped persons, and employment of students, including both employment by the recipient and assistance in making available outside employment.

Note that §104.34, which addresses “Educational Settings,” provides, with respect to Nonacademic Settings, as follows:

(b) Nonacademic settings. In providing or arranging for the provision of nonacademic and extracurricular services and activities, including meals, recess periods, and the services and activities set for in § 104.37(a)(2), a recipient shall ensure that handicapped persons participate with nonhandicapped persons in such activities and services to the maximum extent appropriate to the needs of the handicapped person in question.

*********
See Williamstown (MA) Publ. Schs., OCR I, Boston MA, 2003, 39 IDELR 43, in which a parent had complained that the district denied her daughter, who had spastic cerebral palsy, access to a computer lab, the choral group and a field trip. When OCR investigated, it found that the student had been unable to accompany her class on a field trip because there was no plan for transportation. OCR found that the district did not provide the student with an equal opportunity to participate in extracurricular activities. The case was resolved by the district agreeing to provide, inter alia, appropriate transportation to allow such equal access.

See Chino Valley (CA) Unified School Dist.,OCR, 3/10/2000, addressing a complaint that 12th grade students with disabilities were excluded from a field trip to Medieval Times. In it letter, OCR states:

"Section 504 prohibits the exclusion of students from participation in any school activity on the basis of disability."

The matter was resolved by the district entering into a written agreement under which it agreed to sponsor a second field trip to Medieval Times, and pay the total cost for all the students who had been previously excluded. Additionally the district agreed that in the future, all eligible students, including those with disabilities, would be invited to attend such field trips. In addition, the District agreed to provide Section 504 disability sensitivity training to all high school administrators. Based on all these assurances, OCR indicated that it would consider the matter resolved, but that "OCR will monitor the District's full implementation of the commitments contained in the VRP" .

See Chesterfield (VA) County Public Schools, ICR XI D.C. 2003, 39 IDELR 163, in which OCR approved a settlement agreement after students with mobility impairments complained that field trips to a local movie theater were not accessible. OCR agreed that it was inappropriate for school personnel to carry the students to the second floor so they could see the performance, and approved the district's agreement to request the theater to make the performance wheelchair accessible.

See Rim of the World (CA) Unified Sch Dist., 38 IDELR 101, OCR OX (2002), in which a district avoided a finding of violation of 504 when a teacher told a blind student that he could not participate in a field trip unless accompanied by a family member only because OCR found that this was a "miscommunication" and an "isolated incident" by a teacher who was not the student's normal teacher and because the teacher was not stating school policy - - the student had gone on other field trips without any requirement of a family member coming along.

See Ramirez v D. of Columbia, 32 IDELR 87 (US D.Ct. DC, 2000). In holding that the school had to modify a restroom so the student could maneuver his wheelchair through the doorway, the court ruled that access was required under IDEA and 504. The court noted that regs implementing the ADA and 504 require a program "when viewed in its entirety" to be "readily accessible to individuals with disabilities." It also referenced Appendix A to 28 CFR §35.150(b)(1), which discusses acceptable vs. unacceptable ways to provide program accessibility. (Carrying the child is not considered an acceptable method for achieving program accessibility,)

See also Evans County (GA) Sch. District, OCR June 30, 1999, in which OCR approved a settlement requiring the district to hire an architect to renovate the entire school system. Among other complaints that were addressed, the student with a mobility impairment had been excluded from a pep rally because he was unable to open the gymnasium doors. With respect to access to the pep rally, the case states:

"With respect to the allegation that the Student was treated differently than students without disabilities when left outside the gym during a pep rally because he was unable to open the gym doors, the District informed OCR that the Complainant notified the Special Education Direction (Director) of the incident. The Director and the classroom teacher apologized to the Student and the Complainant and developed a plan to insure that the incident would not reoccur. . . . As a result of the District's actions, OCR considers the matter resolved."

See also Bad Axe (MI) Pub. Sch. OCR Region V 20 IDELR 819 (7/23/93) finding numerous violations of 504 accessibility requirements, including lack of accessibility to the spectator seating in the football stadium because there were no curb cuts to allow individuals in wheelchairs to reach the seating area.

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Response to MichiganVote (Reply #111)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 08:32 PM

112. Thanks for the clarification.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #112)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 09:39 PM

117. Is anything ever clear when it comes to special education? :)

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #56)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 05:19 AM

85. I'd like some evidence for your claim that "most" schools aren't wheelchair accessible. Thanks.

 

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #56)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 09:34 AM

91. You just simply made that up

Admit it.

The ADA requires wheelchair accessibility in all public schools.

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Response to _ed_ (Reply #91)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 04:37 PM

102. The ADA requires wheelchair accessibility in all public facilities and accommodations.

That doesn't mean it actually exists.

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #102)

Sun Apr 1, 2012, 10:55 AM

122. WTF?

You said that "most schools are not wheelchair accessible." That's total bullshit that you made up on the spot and now you're lying your way out of it.

Post actual statistics on schools and the ADA if you're trying to make a point of some kind. How many ACTUAL schools are not ADA-compliant?

Stop making shit up.

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Response to _ed_ (Reply #122)

Sun Apr 1, 2012, 01:54 PM

123. All but a handful on O'ahu, for starters

most NYC schools are multi-story; not sure how many have elevators.

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Response to _ed_ (Reply #91)


Response to Confusious (Reply #21)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 01:21 AM

75. Anyone using a wheel chair all the time loses muscle strength that is used with the walker and

we had to find ways to prevent bed sores with my daughter. The walker helps with these health problems.

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Response to jwirr (Reply #75)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 02:45 AM

81. From what I have heard, moving about independently is better than PT some tried to force

My friends who have CP say that the PT was painful and limited to short sessions.
But, when they could just get up and walk from time to time they could go at their own pace limiting the pain themselves, do as much as they want- sometimes beyond what they would have gotten in PT, and it could actually be fun.

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Response to loyalsister (Reply #81)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 01:03 PM

97. Absolutely correct. Years ago when my daughter was young (in the 50s) they did not understand

the need for exercise and atrophy was just allowed to set in. One of her arms is still atrophied. Today we understand that being able to do what you can on your own or even with someone doing PT is much better than then.

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #3)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 08:11 PM

30. That's not the issue here. The school has made accommodations. It's a matter of

liability and assistance for the child. They're saying the child really can't use the walker to the level that is safe. She'd already fallen down. They don't have the staff to provide an assistant to assist her in wherever she is going.

I see their point.

The school is accommodating the child by providing ramps and access for anything the child needs and can use safely. If she'd been able to use the walker safely, there wouldn't be an issue. The mother admits this is a progression, that the child really is LEARNING to use the walker.

It's a sticky issue. I see both sides. But if you have a disabled child that you want to go to a public school, where they don't have staff or experience in assisting the disabled, you have to alter YOUR procedures, too, in addition to the school altering ITS procedures. Or...you can send your child to a special school where they have experienced staff to assist children with those sorts of needs.

The child can use the walker the rest of the day. At home, at malls, playing outside at home, etc.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #30)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 10:59 PM

43. Sorry, but in the land of special education, the school cannot claim

that they don't have an assistant to monitor her movements. None of that will fly in a hearing. They will either have to hire an aide or provide a schedule of adult monitors. Ramps and similar access are not the same as whatever is provided in her personal IEP.

How do I know? I work with a child who is nearly identical. He is making it and this child can/will also.

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Response to MichiganVote (Reply #43)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 01:36 AM

78. Not only that but that is what the money the district gets for special ed is for.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #30)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 11:15 PM

50. That is not correct. The school needs to meet the needs of the child.

If the child needs an aide - they have to provide one.

That is what the ADA is all about and why individual educational plans are written.

As far as the parents sending their child to a public school - what makes you think they have any other option?

Special education is part of public education since the 70's. I don't know if you are aware of that.
The whole idea is to mainstream special children, not put them away at a special school because it is more convenient for those without disabilities.

Everyone stumbles when they learn to walk.
I don't recall my kids being forced to use a wheelchair when they were learning to walk - so why should this girl?

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #3)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 04:56 AM

84. However ADA may not trump in loco parentis

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/In+loco+parentis

It may have to be decided in court.

However, courts tend to side with schools when it comes to basic issues of safety in this regard.

Doesn't mean that it is the right thing to do, just might be legal.

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Response to JCMach1 (Reply #84)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 04:41 PM

103. So that would mean, in effect, the ADA only applied to adults??

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #103)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 05:44 PM

108. No, just that schools can act to protect students

in the same way parents do...

For example, ADA would never trump the authority of a real parent to make a decision for their child.

Legally, it's the same concept... the school just 'acts' as parent.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 07:32 PM

4. They are afraid that she will fall down and then they will get sued.

They want to protect themselves from liability. It is a stupid argument. Kids get hurt at school all the time. If they are so worried, then allow the mother to waive liability.

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Response to madaboutharry (Reply #4)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 07:33 PM

7. See #5 above.

They're a bunch of s.

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #7)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 07:58 PM

22. Doesn't answer the question


How does a wheelchair deny access?

If the mother waives liability is this instance, her using a walker, it seems fair to me.

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Response to Confusious (Reply #22)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 11:38 PM

57. I know someone who fell out of her wheelchair and broke both her legs

Lawsuit! Lawsuit!

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Response to Confusious (Reply #22)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 07:32 AM

88. One of the tenets of IDEA is "least restrictive environment"

A wheelchair is unnecessarily restrictive. Her mobility is with the use of a walker, which is less restrictive than a wheelchair. Whether it "seems fair" is not really good enough to be in compliance of IDEA. There are clear provisions in the law about this. The school is out of compliance in terms of least restrictive environment.

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Response to madaboutharry (Reply #4)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 08:00 PM

25. It's also an excuse for discrimination and bias

I've heard it before. People with disabilities deserve to have a right to fall down, screw up, and fail just like anyone else.
I heard someone give advice once. Someone wanted to be sure they weren't making mistakes raising their kid who had a disability. The advice was you will know if everyone, including the school, is not on the right track if she never gets in trouble.

This kid just wants some independence.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 07:33 PM

6. I guess my kid needs a wheelchair, too. I'm sure she's fallen down at school. n/t

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 07:34 PM

8. This is the result of a lawsuit happy country

But let's take this to logical extent...

Able bodied kids fall, yes they do...let's get all of them on wheelchairs!

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #8)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 08:02 PM

27. It's the result of poorly written civil rights law

The only way the ADA is enforced is by threat of or by actual lawsuit.

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Response to loyalsister (Reply #27)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 01:41 AM

79. Or as my state does it - by caring providers.

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Response to jwirr (Reply #79)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 02:58 AM

82. The good intentions road that limits independence?

Parents and caregivers who truly care about their loved ones and clients, patients, etc... sometimes have the most trouble breaking away from the stereotypes and mythology in order to see that people with disabilities are capable of enjoying their lives and finding their own way in that direction if they have the opportunity.

We got the law 20 yrs. ago and are still trying to wake people up.

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Response to loyalsister (Reply #82)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 01:21 PM

99. In our area many of us that work in this field are the ones who fought for that bill and we demand

that it be followed.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 07:43 PM

11. What's next?

Make all disabled people and seniors who use walkers to be confined to wheel chairs?

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 07:45 PM

14. Cute little girl

They are afraid of getting sued, so they are covering their behinds.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 07:45 PM

15. Scared of the lawyers and advised by lawyers. Not a surprise. nt

 

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 07:49 PM

16. It's a liability issue...

I can understand their view on this. An injury to a cerebral palsy kid could be significant. It's a big risk for the school to take.

Probably insisting the child use the walker when not in school would be the better alternative.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #16)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 07:39 AM

89. But they can also be sued for being out of compliance with IDEA

Which is also a big risk for the school to take.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 07:52 PM

18. The district is lawsuit shy, but this is easily correctable,

 

Have the parents sign a deal that they won't sue if their daughter falls during the course of normal school activities.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #18)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 08:00 PM

24. I hope that is way it works out for little girl and next person struggling

like her trying to live as normal a life as possible. They need to give her a commendation or something and a big hug.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #18)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 09:47 PM

36. Parents can NOT sign away the rights of their child WITHOUT court approval in most states

This has been litigated over and over again, especially when it comes to High School Football, parents can sign THEIR rights away, but NOT the rights of their child. i,e, parents sign a waiver so their son can play Football for his high school, he gets hurt, he can still sue the school, for his parents had NO RIGHT TO SIGN AWAY HIS RIGHTS AND NEITHER CAN HE TILL HE TURNS 18.

In most states the only way to sign away the rights of a child is by first going to court and having a Judge determined the waiver is in the best interest of the child. In most cases the Judge will NOT find that to be the case and deny the wavier.

At the same time the School has to defer to the parents as to HOW the child is to get to school, they can NOT under any IEP demand that the child use a Wheelchair. If the School makes such a demand, the parents should refuse to sign the IEP and demand a hearing, where the issue will be litigated.

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Response to happyslug (Reply #36)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 11:26 PM

54. Most IEP's do not require a parent signature anymore. However,

the parents or the school district must provide information to a due process hearing judge about what the medical requirements are for the child in the school environment. The school district can require that a student be safe. And unless or until a hearing judge provides the detail do's and don'ts, the school district can prevail.

For now, it appears that the district, largely because of one administrator, have a failure to communicate.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 08:05 PM

29. This was in East Texas after all.......what did you expect?

Hopefully this kid gets her walker back soon. Poor sweet girl.

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #29)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 11:03 PM

44. Regional differences do apply despite the fact that the IEP trumps all.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 08:14 PM

31. It's fear of lawsuits.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 09:08 PM

34. omg. let the little girl use her walker

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 10:16 PM

39. WTF is going on?? We have reached new heights of discrimination in this country.

Why??????

This makes me beyond sick for personal reasons.

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Response to jillan (Reply #39)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 11:03 PM

46. Well maybe in this area, can't claim the whole country.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 10:20 PM

40. There seems to be a new spirit of meanness in America

And it seems to be aimed squarely at the disadvantaged.

I don't know where this comes from.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 11:03 PM

45. Parents need to make a formal complaint against the principal, superintendent and

school district to the Office of Civil Rights. If she can find other parents of disabled children that feel they are being bullied into accepting conditions not acceptable to the parents, they should file also.

It does not cost, and I have been pleased with the results.

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Response to tsuki (Reply #45)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 11:05 PM

47. Actually they can ask for an IEP and when the difference is revealed they should

ask for a due process hearing.

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Response to MichiganVote (Reply #47)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 11:10 PM

49. I wonder if they informed her of that? If not, she

can go straight to the Office of Civil Rights.

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Response to tsuki (Reply #49)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 11:18 PM

51. They can do both actually. By law they are required to provide info.

on due process hearings. Granted, much of it comes in the procedural rights handout. But its supposed to be available.

Unless the hearing judge is nutty, these people would win. Like I said up stream, this is very likely the result of a poorly informed administrator who has not conferred with counsel and with the local ISD.

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Response to MichiganVote (Reply #51)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 11:49 PM

64. Or a corrupt system. We lived in a corrupt county system between two diamonds.

It is strange to see, but even the educators in the neighboring counties could not deal with this county personnel.

OCR was a God-Send.

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Response to tsuki (Reply #64)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 11:59 PM

69. No, believe it or not, the laws surrounding kids w/disabilities

are vast, cumbersome and sometimes contradictory. Specific personnel are available in most locale to delineate what laws apply in most cases but that doesn't mean an administration listens. Frankly, administrators make mistakes all the time.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 11:20 PM

52. And what do lawyers say about a remedy?

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Response to lonestarnot (Reply #52)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 11:28 PM

55. Reputable lawyers will tell the district to seek a medical opinion

and avoid a due process hearing because they are time consuming and costly.

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Response to MichiganVote (Reply #55)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 11:46 PM

62. Fuck the district! What about the child's rights as a person with disabilities?

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Response to lonestarnot (Reply #62)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 11:55 PM

68. Whether you agree or not, a school identified disability does not

require a District to write and agree to services that are undocumented and/or cannot be shown to be necessary for the student to access their education to the maximum extent possible.

In my view, this school district has opened itself to a due process hearing. Believe me, that's more than enuf' trouble. A student with school identified disability has many, many rights.

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Response to MichiganVote (Reply #68)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 12:05 AM

72. And perception must play as the school has obviously "perceived" that she has a disability.

Confinement to a wheelchair could be shown to impede the child's progress of improvement. The school is fucked IMO. But MO matters not and I'm no lawyer.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 11:50 PM

65. What kid doesn't fall down? Falling down is a common part of growing up. nt

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Response to ZombieHorde (Reply #65)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 12:03 AM

71. To be fair, some kids with CP often have other diagnosis such as a shunt in the head.

In that case a fall can be especially threatening.

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Response to MichiganVote (Reply #71)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 01:52 AM

80. Seems like her doctor(s) and parents would be the best people to say how she should get around.

Her doctor(s) should be up to date on her medical needs, such as shunts.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 01:13 AM

74. As a case manager for clients with development disabilities this is a real no no. The idea is to

challenge the client so that they can grow in their ability to help themselves not limit their abilities. The school just wants to avoid the responsibility.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 04:06 AM

83. Wow. This is turning into a real horse race.

 

Which state will claim the honor of being the cruelest, most backward state in America this year?

Over the last 25 years or so it has become pretty boring, Texas, Floriduh, or Missouri, Missouri, Texas, or Floriduh, yawn...

But then 5 or 6 years ago, coming on strong with a renewed sense of purpose and commitment to going all the way, Arizona burst onto the scene with a veritable blizzard of dumb to become a real contender. Now we see that the traditional power houses have been roused from their complacency and are beginning to fight back.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 08:47 AM

90. Kristi Roberts sounds like a total asshole in the audio recording

"They say they have not yet received her doctor’s OK for the little girl to use the walker without the leg braces she used to wear."

Mom is just throwing a temper tantrum because she doesn't get her way. Put the child in a wheel chair where she is safe for school and do whatever unsafe acts you want at home.


How many teachers/educators here think they are just employees and have to do whatever parents what them to do? That is basically all that is happening here.

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Response to Taitertots (Reply #90)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 11:48 AM

94. Former teacher here.

I can understand why they want her in a wheelchair as much as I can understand the mom's concern for the development of her child. Parents have a right to be concerned and school district leaders have the right to be concerned about her falling down on cement.

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Response to Taitertots (Reply #90)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 11:51 AM

95. I think it's premature, and honestly a little harsh to judge the parent

without knowing how the school system is or isn't working for her child. I used to work in public schools as a speech-language pathologist, and while there were times I disagreed with parents, I always told them it was their job to advocate for their child. I think she's doing just what she should.

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Response to phylny (Reply #95)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 01:16 PM

98. I listened to the audio, that is what I'm judging her based on

And based on the video she created and put on the internet, It is pretty obvious that her child should probably be in a wheel chair at school. In the video she appeared to have difficulty making it even a few feet.

When you disagreed with parents, how did it feel if/when they told you that you were just an employee and to do what they say?

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Response to Taitertots (Reply #98)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 05:22 PM

106. I can't base anything on the video, because it may or may not have been her "first steps," so

she may or may not have made progress since the video and it's not pretty obvious to me, not knowing the child, the recommendations of the PT and her physician's recommendations.

With regard to how I conducted myself as a professional, first of all, I CONDUCTED myself as a professional and would never have spoken to a parent like the guy on the tape did, and therefore had few contentious meetings. If I had all my diagnostic criteria backing up my recommendations, then I would present my thoughts, listen to the parent, and if they still didn't agree, we'd discuss compromise. If we couldn't compromise, or if I thought the parents' wants or demands were to the detriment of the child, then we'd go to due process. It's not like I had to "win" - I had the best interests of my students in mind. I can't say that for some of the administrators I've worked for, but most of them had their hearts in the right place.

I'm just not going to condemn the parent who is her child's advocate.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 02:00 PM

100. Perfectly healthy kids fall down.

How many times did you fall down in grade school?

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 04:43 PM

104. Jesus... Fucking... Christ !!! - How did this turn into a three-alarm flamefest?!

People on an allegedly progressive board are taking the side of CYA bureaucrats over that of an engaging young girl who is trying to exercise (literally) her civil rights!!!

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 05:48 PM

110. WTF. Just..... WTF.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 08:36 PM

113. Sweet kid. Messed up situation.

In fact, it couldn't be more FUBARed.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 09:01 PM

114. Oh for fuck's sake

If all of the little kids that trip and fall were stuck in wheelchairs 'for their own safety' we'd have to have crossing guards in the hallways of every school.

This is idiotic. And cruel.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Mar 30, 2012, 09:44 PM

119. Exact same thing happened to a co-worker. She sued. And lost.

It was a sad story. Judge said the employer owned the facility and had the right to regulate it. And since the worker wasn't being fired or given a different job, ADA wasn't violated. ADA is about accessibility. And the employer was allowing accessibility, not limiting it.

Not exactly the same thing as this case with a child. But it was still pretty sad. If we weren't in such a litigious society, we wouldn't have stories like this.

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